Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Gronk Retires, Take Two; Smith, Henry and New England Patriots Tight Endage

Episode Date: June 23, 2022

With the start of training camp just over a month away, the New England Patriots are preparing themselves for some key positional battles. Host Mike D’Abate welcomes Clare ‘ClazzyClare’ Cooper of Pats Propaganda to discuss Rob Gronkowski’s retirement, the emergence of Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith as a top ‘tight endage’ tandem and whether Devin Asiasi or Dalton Keene is most likely to end up on the cutting room floor. Find and follow Locked On Patriots on your favorite podcast platforms:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-patriots-daily-podcast-on-the-new-england/id1140512627 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1c5ZxFmwg3WbfxAU3tR5Ve?si=k196wH-yRqifUcQQz8SjIQStitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-patriots And follow host Mike D’Abate on Twitter, where he’ll be sharing the latest news about the New England Patriots and talking with fans.On Twitter: @mdabateNFLSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.BetOnlineBetOnline.net has you covered this season with more props, odds and lines than ever before. BetOnline – Where The Game Starts!Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you.Blue NileMake your moment sparkle with jewelry from Bluenile.com, and LOCKED ON SPORTS listeners get $50 off purchases of $500 or more using code LOCKEDON.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hunter Henry, Janu Smith, Devin Asiasi, Dalton Keene, talking tight endage here on this episode of Locked On Patriots and a little more deja vu from old friend Rob Gronkowski. I'm Mike DeBate alongside Claire Clasic, Claire Cooper. You're about to be locked in to the Locked On Patriots podcast. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Patriots a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage, but also your first listen every day. Remember that Locked On Patriots is free and available on Patriots, a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage, but also your first listen every day.

Remember that Locked on Patriots is free and available on all platforms, including YouTube. So download, subscribe to, and follow Locked on Patriots wherever you get your podcasts, and smash that subscribe button on YouTube as well. I am your host, Mike DeBate. I cover your New England Patriots for Patriots Country of Sports Illustrated. So reach out to me.

Let me know what's on your mind. Interact with me on the Bird app at MDABATENFL. While you're out there showing some love to the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Locked On Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots. And of course, folks, don't forget, today's episode is brought to you by Blue Nile. Make your moment sparkle with jewelry from BlueNile.com. And Locked On Patriots listeners get $50 off purchases of $500 or more. This podcast exclusive includes engagement, so use the promo code LOCKEDON at checkout.

Pats fans, it is Wednesday, and Wednesdays here on Locked On Patriots, we're created for the lady of Locked On. And I am once again honored and humbled and privileged to share the microphone with my great co-host today. You know her great work from PatsPropaganda.com. Also, you know her great work from her own podcast with the Patriots Law. One of the best listens you'll find anywhere in Patriots media. A Claire perspective of Patriots podcast right after listening to this episode folks. Definitely check that one out.

You will not be disappointed. Smash the subscribe button. Download, follow wherever you get your podcasts. She is the empress of tight endage and since we're discussing all things tight endage today, who better to join us on this Wednesday? Claire Classey, Claire Cooper joins me from across the pond today.

Claire, thank you for joining me. Always honored, always humbled by your presence, Countess. Oh, you're very welcome. As you said, it's Wednesday, so where else would I be? But I think that you couldn't talk any tight-endage without me, Mike. I think I'd be very offended if there was a lockdown episode that went into the wise and wherefores of tight-ended and i wasn't your guest that week very we would not even dare to make that type of decision here on lockdown patriots no first of all we are contractually

obligated to do it folks no i'm only kidding uh but second of all we really and truly do love talking tight endage with you, Claire. And I know I do. And I know our listeners do as well. So we've got a lot of tight endage to talk today. Hinted at it in the opening, Hunter Henry, Janu Smith, Devin Asiasi, Dalton Keene. Those are the big names that we're going to be talking about today. No, folks, we haven't forgotten about Matt Sokol. We're going to sprinkle in a little talk on him, too, I would imagine. But as luck would have it, some big tight-endage news broke yesterday,

and maybe the biggest of them all when it comes to the tight-end position. Certainly the most revered when it comes to New England Patriots folklore, Rob Gronkowski calling in a career. No, you haven't entered a time warp, folks. He did this once before in 2019. He is doing it again now we're not sure how long this one's gonna last and we'll get to drew rosenhouse's comments in just a moment who hinted that rob may not exactly be done with the nfl just yet stop rolling

your eyes folks i know i know but we are going to talk about gronk today and his legacy in new england claire when it comes to what Gronk did on the field, absolutely his numbers, his statistics, his prowess, performance all speaks for itself. Four-time All-First, a first-team All-Pro, five-time Pro Bowler, four-time Super Bowl champion, won three of those rings up here in New England, one down in Tampa. I think it's a more, it's really a foregone conclusion that Gronk is just going to basically walk into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility. He was the most dominant player at his position when he played it, and he did it for a number of years. I know the knock

against him is going to be longevity, it's going to be injury, things of that nature, but when he was on the field, Gronk was the most fearsome pass catcher in the Patriots arsenal and because he could beat you so many different ways so when I look at this professionally I say it's a slam dunk that he'll end up there as well as the Patriots Hall of Fame but his legacy has taken a little bit of a hit in New England the last couple of years the way he left New England after retiring and then asking to be traded essentially to Tampa so he could go down and join Tom really, I think, rubs some people the wrong way.

And then you see Gronk maybe taking a few shots at Patriots management. There was the incident on Jimmy Kimmel where he talked about the Patriots bonuses and how they're paid out. A lot of people have taken that as a negative, as a slight to the Patriots fan base and the organization once again he issues a statement on social media yesterday

this doesn't mention the New England Patriots I am of the ilk that this is not that big of a deal and I think that Gronk's legacy in New England should still be very intact. But I also can understand the Converse argument for that as well. When you look at this as the expert of tight endage here on Locked On Patriots, really across all of Patriots media, I mean, Claire, you are the guru when it comes to this position. And you can make the argument that maybe Gronk is the one that started all of this here. He was the catalyst that really kind of gave birth to this. are your thoughts first of all on Rob's retirement and second of all on what his legacy should look like here in New England yeah I've got to give him credit Rob Gronkowski was kind of the main reason I fell in love with football as a whole so yeah he's he's very significant for me

but saying that him announcing his retirement wasn't kind of as much of a big deal for me as a Patriots fan because he's not a Patriots player anymore he already retired once as a Patriot and he kind of bid his farewells in in that respect as you said back in 2019 and he did his kind of thanks for everything new england sort of thing so he already did do that once granted i know that him retiring this time so from the books was all you know thanks to the books and that kind of thing because he's really reflecting on those two years that he spent there because he already retired from from new england once so looking at it that way i can see why the fans are a little bit slighted in regards to that but he kind of already did his New England one then he sort of moved along and went to the books and

and then kind of did his retirement from the book sort of thing so I kind of see it as two separate entities now I know that as you mentioned in regards to sort of what was said how you know he's taken pot shots at New England to be honest with you when it comes to the fan base I think it's very different if you're looking at it kind of the hall of fame situation I think it's going to take a lot more than those sorts of as you called them pot shots to to really make an effect because this guy was so skilled he had such a significant career unfortunately it was peppered by injury and you know that's probably why we're looking at this retirement again

basically the guy took a year off to recover decided that he missed it too much how can you not when when you're an athlete that is as dominant as as Rob Gronkowski when you're an athlete who is as physical who is as skilled who is as gifted as he was in his position, that you can see why he kind of came back and why the retirement didn't stick because he threw himself into the sport. And this guy was battered and broken, you know, when he retired. He even mentioned he was in tears.

He was in tears sort of before games because he was so battered and broken and bruised and you know with the the list of injuries will be here for half the day so you can sort of see why he took that year off it was unfortunate that when he came back after that year off Tom Brady had had hitched his wagon over to you know Tampa and we all know that Gronk was never going to be playing without Brady he was sort of referred to as like Brady's security blanket you know in a lot of the commentators and things like that and you can see why I personally don't think that Tom Brady would really be the full-time Brady without Rob Gronkowski now I know that's

going to offend a lot of people but you look at whole, sorry not to go off on a tangent, but you look at the whole Brady without Belichick and he succeeded and this, that and the other, and there's always that argument of was it Belichick, was it Brady? And I really don't think enough sort of onus is put on how Brady utilised Gronkowski and how significant Gronkowski was and how he came back for Tom

and how successful Tom was when Gronk came back and granted Gronk didn't come back as you know to the full extent of himself initially and that was commented on when he came out of retirement and he went over to Tampa so I'm very much of he's such a big deal in that respect in so many respects that I can't really see him not just shimmying and dancing his way into the Hall of Fame and specifically the Patriots Hall of Fame I'm surprised he's not already there in all fairness but granted because he went over to Tampa you can see sort of why but I'm surprised there isn't like a little door when you open it there's the whole Gronk thing because he's already there because he should already be there because he's so significant I went back and looked at like some of his highlights and stuff and

don't do it folks because it'll bring a tear to your eye because he was so good and it's so sad that he's not on the Patriots anymore and there were some wonderful things said about him even at the beginning of his career and these things were really true and to even see it so significantly at the beginning he was a monster on the field a complete freak and one comment in 2011 was one of the I unfortunately don't know the name of of the commentator but it was um when they were it was to do with it over a game this guy is gonna be scary good and I think no truer words were said when you look at his career sure he had some downsides because he had some significant injuries so it affected his you know his play skills and you know with his brace and his straps and he you know he sort of developed to run like a

bit like a baby deer because he was just unfortunately kind of a bit battered and broken. But he did. He still had this presence. And I even looked at silly things like statistics as in height. Now, obviously, Gronk is a big guy, 6'6". But he isn't the tallest tight end out there. But because he had such presence, because he had such physical ability, he seemed to sort of tower over people even when he literally didn't even when he didn't have those inches on the guys he just had this

presence that sort of made him seem even larger than he really was you know larger than life kind of thing and that goes back to his personality as well had this sort of just party going kind of craziness about him and I think some of it was it was even said by by his um his teammates in the locker room you know he was such an integral part such such a different sort of player and I think the Patriots were really lucky that I feel that they kind of had lightning strike twice yeah Tom Brady Tom Brady, Mr. 199 turned out to be sort of, you know, the most phenomenal quarterback that may ever have lived. And they kind of had it in Gronk. You know, I know a lot of people will argue probably non-Patriots fans,

more non-Patriots fans. So, but Rob Gronkowski kind of did, he did it better than anybody. And, you know, he was a phenomenal athlete a phenomenal tight end and yeah I think there's no getting back to your initial question I can't see why there'd be any question that he wouldn't make it into any halls of fame that has got anything to do with him as far as I'm concerned yes okay I'm a tight end enthusiast and I'm a grunt lover he upset me when he when he left the Patriots and he went to the book so I'm a little bit kind of over it in that respect but he's he's too good to put it really basically he's far too good for anything sort of little off-field quibbles to to not put him through

sort of no questions asked. And when you come down to it, when you want to look at something like that, Bill Belichick benched Malcolm Butler, and he's a patriot again. So, I mean, I think Bill gets over things quite easily from looking at that as experience. And Gronk's just, yeah, as I said, not to repeat myself, but's grunk is just too good

too skilled a receiver great hands talented blocker it completely set him apart and okay so he didn't have um 11 years of phenomenalness you know like from start to finish of course not because of all the injuries but he did have all those seasons as you know an epic tight end and i think there's no question about it, really. And it's a shame that he's retired. Part of me is glad that he has because he played so physically and he already had to retire once, probably mostly because of a physical situation,

that I'm kind of glad that he's got out before he has to be carried out because nobody wants to see an athlete go like that. And I'm glad that Gronk is probably not going to go like that. We still don't know because it's still not certain that he might not kind of come out of retirement. Well, I think I saw it, Gronk two, Brady one so far. So in regards to retirement, you never know. Gronk might go for a three-er just to kind of beat Brady.

So stranger things have happened it's the nfl folks so but yeah if this one does stick i'm kind of over it as a patriots fan because he already did it from new england as i mentioned and you know it kind of it's good that he's not going to be in a books uniform it is sad that he's not going to be in the world of the nfl because he's such a phenomenal player and he deserves to be seen regardless of sort of what team he's on. But ultimately, as I said, I'm just glad that he's retired when he's chosen to rather than when he has to because you just don't want to see guys of that.

You don't want to see any guys go out like that, of course. But when you've got someone as special, as phenomenal like Gronkies, you just don't want to see him kind of forced out of the sport you want him to kind of walk out on his own and I'm sort of so I'm sort of glad that he's doing that even though it's a shame that we won't see him play anymore yeah very good point very very good point I mean when you're dealing with a larger than life character like Rob Gronkowski who's not just larger than life on the field he's larger than life in like Rob Gronkowski, who's not just larger than life on the field. He's larger than life in every aspect.

Gronk has a magnetism when he enters the room and having the opportunity to have covered him and seen him interact with fans and be around. He's just, he's, he's that central figure that everyone's eyes just sort of gravitate towards. And he just, he's has that magnetism. He's always had that.

And he will continue to do that i understand where some of the mixed feelings come from with the fan base especially when they read the message yesterday they're still a little stung about tom brady earlier this year not mentioning the patriots rob not mentioning it all of a sudden it seems like a coordinated effort some people are saying that it's much ado about nothing some people are saying that it's everything that it really is heartbreaking and really upsetting and people that are really angry with rob for not doing that i always say especially because it's here on wednesday and you always bring the level of reason to where we need to be claire around a wednesday you bring balance and you take it to the middle i think virtue lies in the middle on this i think that it's probably a little overblown to say that this is an egregious omission on his

part. Rob has always been very complimentary about the time he's had up here in New England, especially the fans. Anyone who questions how much Rob Gronkowski dedicated to his fans only needs to go back and take a look at the one mission, the buzz cuts, where he would always be the first in the chair to have his head shaved for cancer research, to raise money for that. I can tell you that visits to Boston Children's Hospital and Hasbro Children's Hospital in Providence, Rhode Island, those visits were not always publicized. Rob would make it a point to go and follow up with kids that he would speak to, that they would say, I'm going to be here for a couple of weeks. And he'd say, okay, you know,

I'll come back down and I'll see you. And Rob would do it. He would do it every single time. He would not make an empty promise. And it was very important to him to do that. Those types of interactions with the fans meant so much to him. So anyone questioning whether or not Rob really cared about the fan base, encourage you to read a little bit about the charitable work that he did especially with the gronk nation foundation um his roots are very much in foxborough there's still a lot of massachusetts left in the man and there always will be so his dedication to the fan base is very much rooted in that but i also understand where fans are coming from you invest so much time invest a lot of money into merchandise, ticket prices, things of

that nature to see a player. When you're not acknowledged, it can give you a little bit of that rubbing the wrong way. So I get both sides. I really and truly do. But just know that Rob Gronkowski is very grateful for the time that he had here in New England, very grateful for his fan base. I think the animosity toward the organization

is very much overblown. I think Rob will get his time to wear his red jacket. He'll be honored accordingly and the way he should be in a Patriots uniform for everything that he did here. And to me, that really is also where he shines as well. So many people have been sending me DMs that they think I'm off base when i say it's a foregone conclusion that rob is going to be a pro football hall of famer everyone agrees he's definitely getting in that red jacket has already been ready in foxborough i mean he's going to just waltz in in his first year of eligibility and that's exactly what he should do but some people are saying that it's not quite the slam dunk everybody thinks it is because Rob missed time,

because of the fact that he did have difficulties with staying on the field with injury. I went back and I looked at his postseason, which is where people say that maybe he doesn't have the resume that other tight ends or other prolific players may have had. Rob's resume in the postseason is about as sparkling as you can get. For everything that he did in the regular season, he did so much in the postseason, Claire. It really was amazing. Just as a Patriot, and I kept this Patriot-centric because it is locked on Patriots.

We don't like to talk about their time down trespassing in Tampa. He yarked on. So we'll talk about what he did in the New England Patriots uniform. Most career postseason receiving yards by a tight end, 1163 yards as a Patriot. Most career postseason receiving touchdowns at his position. Rob had 12 of them here in New England. And he also rose to the occasion on the grandest stage of them all. You want to talk about Super Bowls?

Wasn't even on the field for Super Bowl 51, that remarkable comeback. He still had the most combined receptions in 23 and the most receiving yards, 297, by a tight end in Super Bowl history. That was before he ever put on a Tampa Bay Buccaneers uniform. He already held all of those NFL postseason records. His last reception here in New England

arguably won them a Super Bowl. That reception hauled in the game-sealing catch. That catapulted the Patriots to a victory in Super Bowl 53. So for anyone thinking on-field prowess and that his stats don't quite measure up or he didn't have the longevity, Rob didn't need the longevity. He did it in a compact period of time,

which makes it even more remarkable. So that's how I'm going to remember Rob Gronkonkowski who knows drew rosenhouse dropped a little hint yesterday that if tom calls him in november uh that maybe he might be willing to answer the call but bottom line folks i happen to think he has played his final down uh but i never say never and you can never say never when it comes to this if he gets itch, he may decide that he wants to go back out there, but hats off, kudos, and a hat tip to Rob Gronkowski for an amazing career and really, I think, someone that should be remembered as a Patriots legend. Nothing more, nothing less.

He truly was in every sense of the word. But, Claire, that was then. This is now. The New England Patriots have a roster to put out there for 2022, folks, and tight endage is a big part of that roster. We're looking to see whether or not that two-headed tight end monster that we talked about all 2021 offseason will finally come to fruition in 2022. Are we about to see the Hunter Henry Jeannou Smith show?

We will talk about that, Claire and I, when this episode of the Locked on Patriots podcast continues. But first, Claire, it is summer. And because it is summer, it's time to hit the road, see all the sights, do all the things that you've been wanting to do, taking some time off, and making sure that your family has a great time well the best way to save time and money when making sure that your ride is up to all of those adventures is to visit our good friends at rockauto.com because rockauto.com you will not be

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us box so they know we sent you amazing selection reliably low prices all the parts your car will ever need rockauto.com patriots fans we're talking tight endage with the Empress of tight endage the Countess of class herself the illustrious Claire Classey Claire Cooper of Pat's propaganda and a clear perspective of Patriots podcast and Claire in the previous segment we talked

about the ghost of tight ends past here in New England and that's a pretty big specter to hang over the Foxborough you know airspace there in Gillette Stadium. Rob Gronkowski calling it quits. We think he's calling it quits, folks, after an illustrious 11-year career in the NFL. But the New England Patriots find themselves at a crossroads.

This is a team that has always prided itself on prolific tight end play. Whether you look back to the days of Bill Parcells when Ben Coates was catching passes from Drew Bledsoe. Go back to Russ Francis even earlier. I mean, if you really want to go back into the lore of this, Russ was a tremendous tight end here in New England. There were several that have worn the uniform that have done it proud rob probably will go down in history as the best uh tight end not only in in a patriots uniform but maybe even in an nfl uniform cumulatively but the pats were expected last year to resurrect that tight endage in their offensive game plan uh with all due respect to your good friend and business partner ryan is oh um ryan kind of uh i knew i'd get around that folks see ryan i think again i always and no folks please don't start looking up the llc claire is not claire is not in cahoots with

ryan but um getting back to uh to the the Ryan Izzo situation definitely put in a tough situation he was the guy that had to kind of take over for Gronk when he left and went down to Tampa that is that is a very very tall task well actually no it wasn't when he was going down to Tampa I believe it was the first year that he retired it was when he retired yeah so that's a lot to put on someone that's an awful lot to put on their shoulders. But I think Ryan did it as well as he could. But the Patriots made sure in the 2021 offseason that they were going to upgrade that position. Hunter Henry, Jonu Smith coming in, we talked about it all the time,

that 12-man personnel, being able to have Jonu be that move tight end, that red zone threat, and then Hunter be as good of a route runner as I've ever seen in this league from the tight end position, be able to run routes and stretch the field and get out there. And these guys just had it all when it came to that type of, you know, that type of prowess didn't quite work out that way last year, Claire, only 18.6% of the time that these two guys were called upon is when they shared the field um that's not a whole lot considering you look at their you know playing time you know you're looking at over 80 percent of the playing time that the patriots had on offense and those snaps were not taken utilizing

the two tight ends that they had brought in so prominently in the offseason fast forward to 2022 hunters you know come in he's he's looking strong jano is looking like a new renewed type of player when you look at these two guys and you look at what the patriots bring to the table and all the other aspects of their offense is this the year that we finally get to see that two tight end set or do you think it's still going to be a little bit less than people believe? It's difficult because they're so stacked at wide receiver. There's such depth at wide receiver. And obviously you aren't going to kind of have all your offense on the field at the same time, even if you want the trial personnel.

So there's always that risk of it taking sort of time away from another individual. But when you look at it as a collective, when you look at it as a collective when you look at it as a toque because we know that Hunter Henry is good in this system we know that he's a great tight end I know a lot of people argue he's not elite and because I'm a little bit biased I would argue against that because but I'm a Patriots tight end fan so I'm gonna say that Hunter is like super duper anyway but he did have a really solid year with a rookie quarterback in his first year so you've got to say that he's a you know if you're not going to say anything you've got to say he's a really decent tight end so we know that we've got that when it comes to Hunter Henry what we

don't know is the extent of what Johnny Smith can do within the Patriots system. Now, yeah, I hear from sort of minicamp that, you know, he's putting the work in, he's there and he's looking like he's fitting. And this is great. The thing that we've got to look at is the offensive coordinator, the offensive player, the offensive coaches, you know, whichever you want to sort of byline you want to put in it is different this year because you don't have Josh McDaniels. So you've got Johnny Smith not under Josh McDaniels so is some of what we had last year or some of what we didn't have last year maybe we should say got anything to do with that in regards to coaching and if that's the case then it's going to be very different regardless of if Johnny Smith's putting the work in or not because you've got a different setup so there's already that to look at now the other thing that's sort of

interesting is when you look at titans as tandem um San Francisco have got when I looked at the uh the statistics of kind of like the top titans and and and who is the top performers when you look back at 2021 San Fran have got two of their titans in in the top I think it was the top performers. When you look back at 2021, San Fran have got two of their tight ends in the top, I think it was the top 20 performance. So then you'd say, well, they've got two of the top performing tight ends, but they're not obviously going to be on the field at the same time. San Fran have also got the top fullback. Now, they don't necessarily utilise him as much as a fullback.

Could you argue that they utilize him a little bit like a tight end so you've got karl jusek who is probably the the top fullback that's out there in the nfl at the moment granted it's not the most utilized positions and also new england have come out to say that they're not really going to utilize the fullback this season and that's why jacobob Johnson has left so subsequently you had an individual on the field when Smith was on the field in regards to Jakob Johnson that would take away maybe some of the skill set that you would utilize within a tight end tandem so you'd have a tight end and a fullback so you don't have that now so you've already opened up a little bit of availability shall we say to have a two tight

end set so looking when you look at the league wide you do look at tight ends and yes there are teams that have got tight ends that are kind of better than new england's tight ends granted if you put hunter henry as the te1 there are several teams that you can look at and say, well, they've got a tight end that's more elite than Hunter Henry. That may be so. But when you look at that team's tight end number two, other than San Francisco, do you really have a tight end tandem that is better than what New England have got? Granted, we're looking at it on paper at the moment

because we haven't seen it utilised. But going into the 2022 season, when you look at it, as I said, on paper, New England might have the top two tight ends together from the whole of the NFL. As I said, yes, I'm not saying that they are the best tight ends. They're not number one and number two in the NFL. That's not what I'm trying to say, folks. I'm just saying when you look at it collectively,

other than the books, which now is moot because Gronk isn't there, I would have said that maybe the books have got the top two Titans in Gronk and Brait as in a combination tandem. Because they don't have that now. Really, when you look at it as an overall picture maybe New England do and you've got Hunter Henry and Johnny Smith now if they can perform as well as we sort of have seen them perform in the past has seen as what would be expected sort of how for what they've been paid and what we've we've heard we may have a really significant tight end tandem that can perform for 2022 so obviously I'm always

excited for tight endage because I am a tight edge enthusiast we all know this but I think that New England fans can get really excited to see that they might have something going forward that's really significant that a lot of the rest of the league haven't got if we've got Hunter Henry and Johnny Smith performing at the best of their abilities now Bill always says the best ability is availability and both of those tight ends didn't have that last season either because of injury now this is something that you can't avoid as we mentioned in the in the earlier segment in regards to Gronk tight end is a very physical position so it's going to be somewhere that is possibly sort of injury, befalls, you know, for want of a better phrase,

because my brain's going and I can't think of one at the moment. But yeah, it's a physical position that's subject to injury. So you're going to have that availability issues. And yeah yeah we had that last year so if they can get over that a little bit if we can sort of get the situation where they are both fit healthy they'll have been to training camp because they'll have both done it this season i know johnny smith didn't last year mac is in his second year so he's more experienced when it comes to utilizing titans i think you've got the setup for something that could be really significant and it's just something to look forward to to

see how it can pan out absolutely I think you make a very very good point especially when it comes to how this tandem might be used look there's no question about it Hunter Henry had a tremendous year last year in 2021. 603 yards, 50 catches, nine touchdowns. All right, that's not going to set the world ablaze or put him in MVP category. But in terms of a new system, in terms of a new quarterback, and getting acclimated to just new surroundings, I think Hunter played very well. And the connection that he had with Mac Jones was something to really marvel at and to really look at as a potential for these two teams coming together down the line or these two sides I should

say coming together down the line and really making one hell of a tandem between quarterback and tight end but I'm sorry go ahead that's sorry because I know I was going to try and dive in because of what you just said the top 25 scoring statistics in touchdowns only several tight ends appeared in the top in in 2021 the top scoring statistics tight ends only really kind of came up technically twice because there was Travis Kelsey obviously up there and a lot of people would say he's a bit more of a wide receiver so he's always going to be a top scorer but kind of tied for the 25th position was hunter henry dawson knox and um mark andrews and they were tied with nine touchdowns so if you consider the sort of statistics of tight ends don't don't show in that top kind of like 25 range as the top scorers because it isn't a position that's utilized for

hunter henry to be up there in regards to that I think he's quite significant particularly when we could say could argue maybe he hasn't had his best year as a New England tight end yet and it could be still to come absolutely that's a great point and the fact that you mentioned that most tight ends do not end up in that echelon but yeah there's Henry right there in the mix with Dawson Knox and with Mark who are tremendous tight ends as well exactly so this really leads you to believe that doing that in his first year and something to also you know put out there is Dawson's had a few years now to get used to uh you know his quarterback out there in Buffalo and Josh Allen and those two guys are developing a good relationship. Marcus has a few years now to develop that type of battery relationship

that he needs with Lamar Jackson. Hunter only had one year with Max, so these two sides now moving forward, to me, looks to be something that I think the Patriots can build on. When you look at Jono and what he can do, we've heard rumblings that he may be the replacement fullback now not the full-time fullback folks but in other words play that role similarly and when the patriots are trying to essentially take that role out of the other rotation and bring maybe someone like a john smith in there uh he does look a little bit more engaged he looks a little bit more comfortable

in the uh in the routes and in the plays that the Patriots were running in minicamp and in OTA. I understand it's a very limited sample size, but he does look to be a little bit more involved. Last year, wasn't able to take part in the preseason or offseason programs because of some of the stuff that he had going on around him. You know, he and his family were having a baby at the time. So, you know, I mean, he had other priorities. And coming in and learning that playbook, not from the get-go, does put you at a disadvantage. Janu coming in now and being 100% engaged, focused,

I think he's set for a pretty good year. I'm not going to say breakout year. I'm not going to upset the Countess, folks. She doesn't like breakout year. But, yeah, exactly. See the finger? I know. I'm getting that.

He's not a rookie. He doesn't have a breakout year but um yep exactly see the finger i know i'd say that i'm getting that but uh he's not he's not a rookie he doesn't have a breakout year that's right that's right he doesn't have to but he's established himself you're absolutely right but i think this is the year he establishes himself as a major factor in the patriots offense and i think he'll be much more of a target in the red zone and don't sleep on that jet sweep i think that's something that he can utilize to his advantage and maybe even run a few fullback packages as well so I think this is the year we're going to see that 12-man personnel really come to life and I think you're going to see improvements from Hunter Henry and I think you're going to see a notable improvement from John and Smith and these two guys together really can be something special and really good targets for Mac Jones this year and then you'll see a very excited classy Claire because when there's a 12-man personnel you'll see

a very excited Claire. Absolutely you'll be hearing the squeals all the way from the other side of the pond and West Midlands in the UK you'll know exactly where it's coming from we'll all know where it's coming from but we'll all love it because the Patriots will be performing well on the field and everyone in Patriots Nation will be excited. But none more so than my illustrious co-host right here. Claire, it's always fun talking tight-ended with you. We talked Hunter Henry. We talked John R. Smith.

We talked Rob Gronkowski. I even mentioned the name Ryan Izzo. What could we possibly do to make the Countess happier? Well, we're going to continue, and we're not completely done completely done yet folks because there are still other tight ends on this roster and what does that mean for the new england patriots have one of their 2020 draft picks seen their best days in the new england patriots uniform we're going to talk seven asiasi we're going to talk Devin Asiasi. We're going to talk Dalton Keene in just a moment and which one of them might have played his final down regular season down in a New England Patriots uniform. But first folks, we said it before. We'll say it again. Summer is here and it's a great time

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the Locked On Patriots podcast, talking all things tight endage with the Empress of tight endage, the Baroness of blockers, the Queen of T.E., the illustrious Klazzy Claire Cooper joins me today here. And Claire, Rob Gronkowski, Hunter Henry, Janu Smith, even a little Ryan Izzo, we've talked about some of your favorite topics in football. No question about it. And we're not quite done yet because the New England Patriots still have a couple of players on this roster that are still getting their legs out

from under them. A couple of third-round draft picks in the 2020 draft. Devin Asiasi, Dalton Keene. These were supposed to be the resurrectors of the tight-endage monster that the Patriots would love to employ. Everyone thought Asiasi and Keene were going to be the next big tight-endage tandem to come out of Foxborough. Hasn't exactly worked out that way.

Devin has been a healthy scratch for the better part of his career. Dalton has spent most of it on injured reserve. So neither one of these guys has really given us an indication as to what their potential would be. When they were drafted, first thing that I thought and I saw from Devin Asiasi, good route runner, great hands, ability to stretch the field possibly. He was going to be your pass-catching threat. With Dalton, it was a little bit more with the blocker. He played as an H-back a little bit in Virginia Tech, someone who could come in, maybe be a fullback on occasion,

but that was going to be his primary role in the tight-ended realm for the New England Patriots. But again, because of the circumstances, we haven't quite seen it. There's still a lot of promise left in both of these guys, but the clock is ticking. There were indications during minicamp that they're not exactly high up on the food chain when it comes to offensive game planning this year. Devin was out there with some of the first stringers

uh one point apparently he either ran the wrong route or did something wrong but whatever it was caused bill belichick to throw his hands up in the air that's never a good sign uh dalton spent a lot of his time we talked about this a couple of weeks ago here on lockdown patriots uh playing with some of the uh the rookies and the third stringers that's usually not a good sign that you're going to be heavily utilized. So there are rumblings that at least one of these guys may have played his final down here in New England. As our resident tight endage expert, and I know you've delved into this a little bit before,

but I want to pick your brain on it again now that we're positionally previewing the tight end position, who is more likely to find themselves on the outside looking in when the 2022 season actually begins is it Devin Asiasi or is it Dalton Keene see it really feels like both of these guys are in the same position but coming from from different sides of it because you've got Dalton Keane who has barely seen the field you know he's been in the Patriots system technically for two years he's played three games and had two receptions but as you mentioned he's been on injury reserve injured had surgery for so much of his two years that we as fans have barely seen him play

his status on i think it was espn i was looking for some stats and they've still got him status as questionable because of this sort of the injury history and the surgery so he needs to be healthy the only way he's going to play is to kind of now you can't really say to for someone to get over their injuries because it's never that simple and i appreciate that and it's difficult to sort of say about an athlete that oh he just needs to be healthy he does it he's not quite you know that cut and dry but looking at it from that side we haven't seen this guy because of his injuries now asiasi we haven't seen this guy because of his injuries. Now, Asiasi, we haven't seen this guy much either. So you're sort of looking at exactly the same situation,

but for a completely different reason. He was just a healthy scratch. We just haven't seen anything from him because they just haven't played him. They couldn't play Keane and they haven't played Asiasi. So, you know, both of those 2020 draft picks we just haven't seen 2020 2021 no no 2019 wow we lost so many years in regards to the pandemics i don't know where i am folks but yeah we haven't seen these two kids play barely at all for the different reasons assy assy as you said he was a healthy scratch for a whole year.

I still can't kind of get over that. This is something that I'm still finding very difficult to sort of just deal with, wrap my head around, is a kid being a healthy scratch for a whole season. Now, I had Paul Perillo on my Eclair perspective, as you mentioned, a few weeks ago now, and he did say that you could look at it two ways. You could look at it the way that I kind of felt like I was looking at it as in you know they just didn't play him he

just hadn't really you know they just didn't really see it in him that's why they haven't played him but you could also look at it well they held on to him for that year so why would they sort of keep an individual in the system if they really sort of were done with him so yes i i see that you can look at it from both ways but as i said i still kind of can't quite wrap my head around it because to me even though that i know that people would argue they spent the money on hunter henry they spent the money on johnny smith but johnny smith had his issues hunter henry had a bit of injury neither guys could give a hundred 100%, 100% of the time, even if you did pay them, you know, significantly.

And really, to me, there were still those holes. There were still pockets that they could have used Asiasi, that they could have put him in, even if it was just to sort of take the pressure off, you know, these two top tight ends, if you like. And they chose not to. And for me, that just seems glaring now this is just my opinion and i granted everybody's entitled to theirs and others will see it very very

differently and that's completely fine but for me from my eclair perspective i just it it felt hinky to me to have a guy as a healthy scratch for a whole year, to not suit up, to not step in for one single season game, just felt hinky. And like you said, it isn't looking amazing for him in training camp. And that is why we're having this conversation. That is why people are having these conversations of, is it the year that they've, you know, is it the year that they're cut? Is it the year that they're traded?

Have they had their final sort of patriots here have they suited up as a patriot for the final time it's difficult to sort of pick one or the other because you're looking at them from two different such such different sides because you're looking at keen with his injury with his health issues and you're looking at assy assi of a well do they you know what do they see in him do they see anything in him because they didn't play him it's difficult to compare them in that respect because you're looking at reasons that you can't compare you can't really compare kind of health against performance so when looking at sort of choosing one really you're going to look at it as in well it's going to depend upon if Keane is healthy if you're looking at sort of choosing one really you're going to look at it as in well it's going to depend upon if keen is healthy if you're looking at um a fully healthy keen versus a fully healthy

assy assy you'd look at it and say well they're probably going to sort of get reed cut trade you know whichever one you want to use at the time assy assi because they've had the time to see what he is they haven't had the time to see what keen is potentially because he lost so much time due to sort of injury ill health so what you'd say well that's you know that's not asiasi's fault that he wasn't injured sort of thing you know if you're looking in like that but you can only look at it in that in in that way is we haven't had chance to see what Keane's got because he was injured whereas they have had chance to see what Asi Asi has got or not got because he wasn't injured so when you look at it like that it seems kind of like well really how can they pick one over the other because they haven't seen what the one's got and as fans how can we pick one over the other because they haven't seen what the one's got and as fans how

can we pick one over the other because we haven't seen either of them for those two different reasons so when it really comes down to it personally I'm kind of of the mindset of I don't really think they see what you know what they want in Asiassi it seems more obvious to me that he'd be the one that they would cut however if Dalton Keane still isn't healthy it's like well they've already had two years out of this guy of not much you know not not the greatest so why would they have a third year of the individual of putting him on IR for another year? It seems kind of maybe a slightly a waste of resources now. And that's unfair to him in a way. But you've got to look at it from a business perspective. Personally, me, Claire, I'm like cut a line under both of them and sort of move on.

You sort of you didn't do great so maybe neither of them really fit one's not going to be healthy enough for you to use maybe the other one doesn't really sort of fit what you want I'm ready to sort of move on however I am biased because I'm ready to move on and just get myself some new tight endage so I'm going from that but I will granted I will openly admit that that is where my sort of mindset is coming from, as in I'm just looking forward to some new tight endings because maybe this lot isn't so great. If you've got a healthy Keane and you're looking at it from like that, I saw as we discussed many a time in the past before, he was really troubled with injury.

He looks kind of H-backy, fallbacky kind of thing. So for me, it's maybe they haven't got a fallback on the roster because they see that Keane can do some of those sorts of things they can sprinkle him in as a tight end as a h-back as a fallback so if you've got a healthy Keane versus Asiasi I think really you're looking at Keane being more versatile for you maybe have more for you if you're looking at an unhealthy keen i i can't really see why they'd keep him around as i mentioned because it's starting to feel like a waste of resources you're putting money into a guy that hasn't really had his full season yet

so in that respect it would be well you'd pick asiasi by default because you'd be at least you'd have a guy that can play um for me it really is a i'm ready to cut my sort of losses but it down to the wire if you're asking me i think asi asi is the one that's going to go plus because he's healthy he's going to maybe have a little bit more value when it comes to trade he hasn't quite got the injury history that keen has got so if you are looking at having some value for money then maybe asiasi is the one that you that you've got that in to utilize him as a trade because you're not kind of saying oh well you know he's just come off ir that sort of thing you've got a guy who's he's had a healthy scratch for a year we just didn't

really need to utilize him you know he's got some value to him so he could be traded away so i think really for me personally when it comes down to the wire i think i'm gonna be i reckon asiasi's if you've got the two i reckon asiasi is the one to go but i wouldn't be surprised if they could keen because of injury and they utilize asiasi in some kind of trade because he's got a little bit of value because he's a young kid who's been in the NFL only two years and maybe he just doesn't suit the system quite as much as they wanted right on the money absolutely I completely agree with you I think in terms of upside and I think in terms of versatility if both players are healthy all things being equal I think Keane is the guy they hold on to, simply because I think what he brings to the table in terms of H-back,

full-back, even be able to get out there and receive. He ran some decent routes when he was at Virginia Tech. He can catch the ball, folks. He's not just a pure blocker out there that's not capable of giving you anything on the offensive side of the ball. Keene can give you a little bit. He can run it, too. So I think the versatility there puts Keene in the driver's seat.

But the great equalizer, as it always is, Claire, and this is really what it comes down to with everyone, is health. We've seen that Dalton has been nursing an injury, even in minicamp. These are not good signs. Mike Reese of ESPN wrote about this, that you can't continuously show signs of breaking down and not being able to stay healthy and on the field. You can have all the promise in the world,

but if you can't put it into practice, it's not going to do any good to you. It's not going to do any good to the team that drafted you. So if Dalton Keene is looking to be struggling with injuries again, you have to wonder if the Patriots don't try to stash him on IR because you're looking at now year three. I mean, these guys were drafted in 2020, had that season, you had 2021 season, you know, these guys that they're coming into their own now in their third year, they're expected to give you some return on investment. You can't keep stashing players on IR or putting them on IR and hoping that they're going to round into form. Now

do teams do it? Absolutely. But is that something that they're going to be willing to do with Dalton? I would probably say not. I would look for maybe a release with an injury designation if they find out that he's not going to be healthy or ready to go for training camp and into the preseason. But if all things are equal, I do see him having the edge for Asiasi again the big upside with Asiasi is athleticism he's a more athletic player a pure athletic player than a Dalton Keene he can get out there and run you some routes and he does have very good hands it's one thing I really was uh very impressed with in his days at UCLA is his ability to be a shorthanded catcher very seldom drops drops the ball, very seldom has a situation

where he can't make the catch. With him, it's usually about being in position. And I think that's what caused Bill Belichick to throw his hands up in the air as maybe Devin not being in proper position when he needed to. Those are big no-nos when it comes to the Patriots' offense. So all things being equal, I would say it would be more likely to be Devin on the chopping block. But if there is an injury to Dalton,

then I don't think the Patriots will hesitate on this one. I think it would be him that would be on the outside looking in. And folks, we haven't forgotten about Matt Sokol. He will be a solid camp body. I think he has the potential

of being a practice squatter. But at the same time, I don't look for him to crack the 53-man roster, especially when the Patriots are going to probably look to carry maybe an extra running back, maybe an extra wide receiver. I think they go three at what tight end this time around. I think that that's something that they're going to hold pretty steady.

So if they are holding two, if they are holding three, and we already have two players that are basically locks for that roster position that number three becomes a pretty big competition between these two guys and i think it's going to be fun to watch during training camp i'll have my sharp eye on it as will my esteemed co-host today miss claire clazy claire cooper claire what can i say it is always my honor always my privilege to share the microphone with you each and every Wednesday. We have a blast talking football, and I know our listeners do as well. For the benefit of

those that are joining us for the first time, please let everyone know where they can find you on social media, interact, what we can look forward to in the coming days and weeks from the great pen, the great voice, and the great accent of Claire Classey, Claire Cooper. Well, if you're a new listener, where have you been, folks?

Locked on Patriots is awesome. And that's not anything to do with me being a guest. Locked on Patriots is awesome. I was a fan before I became a guest. So yeah, where have you been? Please do catch up. But yes, if you're kind of after my work, go over to patspropaganda.com.

That is where you'll find the majority of my written work, mostly in season because i'm much more of a game recap kind of person but tom he does some great work over there as well so you know you will find bits of off-season stuff too so please head over to patspropaganda.com and you'll also find my tight-ended t-shirt designs over there so please do have a peruse and fill up your summer wardrobe with some tight-endage as for listening to me a claire perspective patriots podcast is brought to you by fullpresscoverage.com so you will find that out there on the the podcast universe shall we say it's pretty much everywhere you download your

podcasts and my recent edition last week was with john rook from patriots.com the playbook so yeah that was that was a really good laugh we went a little bit longer normal. So that's a good listen if you want to head over and I'll be recording hopefully, fingers crossed this week, so there'll be a new guest for you shortly. And of course, here for you each and every week, myself, Thomas Murphy, Steve Balistrieri, One Patriots Play Sports, your way to do sports.

So you can catch me there every week as well. So if you want to hear my voice, I'm pretty much around each and every week somewhere locked on patriots one patriots place a clear perspective you know if you want to listen it's there somewhere and folks if you're not listening again i'll steal a line from my esteemed co-host where have you been catch the clear train you're definitely going to love it i'm a fan of everything she does. And, you know, truly, you'll be a better fan.

You'll be a lot more entertained. And you'll walk away, I think, with a lot more positivity as a Patriots fan. And that's something that I think we need in this fan base desperately from everything that happens out there on social media, some of it self-inflicted and most of it from the haters out there that still don't care for our favorite team from Foxborough. But Claire does it with class. She does it with style and some class and pizzazz all her own.

And that's why we are so honored to have her join us each and every week here on Locked On Patriots. And next week, folks, stay tuned because Claire and I will be hosting a mailbag edition of Locked On Patriots. All of your questions, whether it be positional preview questions on tight endage or any other position, send them in, either attach them to this video on YouTube if you're watching, or drop us a line at the Twitter account on Locked On Patriots at LO underscore Patriots and send us in your positional preview questions. We'll answer them right here next week on Locked On Patriots.

And if you're an NBA fan, I know there are a lot of you Celtics fans out there that are still a little stung by the end of the NBA finals. But at the same time, you're proud of your boys that bleed green. My good friend and colleague here at Locked On, John Corrales, hosts Locked On Celtics. He'll be hosting a live draft show on the Celtics draft night, so definitely be sure to check that out. And, of course, I thank each and every one of you for always taking the time out to make Locked On Patriots not just a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage,

but hopefully your first listen every day. On behalf of my esteemed co-host on Wednesdays, Claire, Clazzy Claire Cooper, on Mike Debate, stay safe, stay well, be the change that you wish to see in the world. Have a great day, everyone.