Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Health and Wellness: Dr. Flynn talks NFL and Patriots COVID-19 Protocols - 8/27/2020

Episode Date: August 27, 2020

The New England Patriots, as all NFL teams, are operating under a ‘new normal’ when it comes to the health and safety of their coaches, players and personnel. However, this new ‘modus operandi�� is not limited to the to the COVID-19 pandemic. Strength and conditioning are a concern as well. Joining host Mike D’Abate is Dr. Jessica Flynn of Lahey Medical, who also provides sports medicine and injury analysis for Boston Sports Journal and NBC Sports Boston. They discuss the challenges faced by the NFL when it comes to COVID 19 safety, as well as maintaining the overall strength and conditioning of the players on the field. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patriots fans, you are now locked in to the Locked On Patriots Podcast. I'm going to show you how to make a beautiful and beautiful flower. I'm going to use a small flower pot. I'm going to use a small pot Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful and welcome to Health Check Thursday here on the Lockdown Patriots podcast, your daily home for news notes and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots.

Today's episode is brought to you by RockAuto.com. Amazing selection, reliably low prices, all the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Thank you, Patriots Nation, for joining me here on Thursday, August 23rd, 2020. My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Locked On Patriots podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And folks, because it's your team every day, that means your questions, comments, and feedback always welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Share that feedback anytime by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter at MDABATEA-B-A-T-E-F-P-C. And while you're out there traveling around through the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Lockdown Patriots account as well at L-O underscore Patriots. And folks, you heard me earlier tease today's show as Health Check Thursday. And while usually that means checking on the individual health or injury status of some of your favorite New England Patriots, this year 2020 has given a whole new meaning to the term health check. Because for the first time in, I'm assuming, all of our lifetimes, this upcoming NFL season will be played amidst a pandemic.

And of course, I'm talking about COVID-19. Now, the NFL as a whole has actually done a fairly good job of keeping its players, its coaches, and even members of its personnel relatively healthy, and throughout training camp so far, they've been pretty effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19. And this is great news, obviously, first and foremost for the NFL, the owners, the players, the media. We all want to be able to bring a full season of NFL football to all of you, the fans.

And if I'm being honest, it's a bit surprising that the NFL has been this effective in limiting the spread. But as we also saw last weekend, panic when it comes to COVID-19 can spread in the blink of an eye. And we saw just that over the weekend in the early part of this week when it was reported that 77 false positive tests wreaked havoc throughout many NFL training camps, including that of your New England Patriots. But what exactly is a false positive? Why is it so dangerous to jump to conclusions? And are there any other testing measures that the NFL might consider to help make the spread of COVID-19 even less probable than it is right now? Well, folks, even though my initials might be MD, I am as far from a medical mind as you'll find anywhere in the continental United States. I am not a doctor. I do not play one on this podcast.

So to help answer some of the burning questions that you still might have when it comes to the COVID-19 pandemic and its relationship to the 2020 NFL season, I will be joined today here on Locked On Patriots by one of the top medical minds anywhere in sports media, Dr. Jessica Flynn, one of New England's leading sports medicine physicians at Leahy Hospital and Medical Center in Burlington, Massachusetts, also a sports injury analyst for Boston Sports Journal and NBC Sports Boston, will provide true wisdom and counsel when it comes to the COVID-19 pandemic and what this might mean for the regular season and even into the playoffs for the NFL.

And of course, folks, this is Locked On Patriots, so we will be discussing the health of your New England Patriots, especially how the lack of strength and conditioning exercises, meaning OTAs, mini camps, even preseason games, might impact the amount of injuries we see on the field this upcoming season. As you know, Dr. Flynn has joined us here on the pod a couple of times in the past, and her expertise on these subjects, especially when it comes to COVID-19, is second to none. It's my honor to share the microphone with her today, and I have no doubt that, like me, you'll be fascinated by what she has to say. So a great show for you on tap here, folks.

And in just a moment, I will welcome in Dr. Jessica Flynn here on this Health Check Thursday on the Locked On Patriots podcast. But your New England Patriots did take the practice fields today. And even though the start of practice was originally scheduled for 10 a.m., they moved it up 45 minutes to 9.15 a.m. Eastern to account for some inclement weather that was in today's forecast. And even though the team tried their best to stay ahead of the weather, they still practiced in rainy, windy conditions. The full pads were on, and at times this looked like a scrimmage. In fact, there were some referees that were out on the field, not league referees,

but nonetheless officials that could give a semblance of a game atmosphere. If you're wondering about roll call, mostly the familiar faces were absent from today's practice, including defensive tackle Bo Allen, wide receiver Will Hastings, Lamar Miller, who remains on active PUP, and of course Brandon King is on reserve PUP. Two new additions to the absentee list today, folks. Josh Uche, Cash Malawai. Uche seems to be more of a maintenance day, while Malawai is still nursing an injury, so he's probably taking some time to heal up.

Those that were present on the field but limited were tight end Devin Asiasi, offensive tackle Yanni Kajust, safety Kyle Duggar, and wide receiver Jacoby Myers. Also, safety Devin McCourty did not participate in today's practice. He did watch the final periods from the sidelines, but both Devin and his brother Jason addressed the media after practice today via teleconference, and you could both see and hear that the McCourty twins were obviously shaken, saddened, and even disheartened by the events that are unfolding throughout the country.

These events harshly remind all of us that there is still such a long way to go in this country to end systemic racism and injustice of any and all kinds. And this is a subject that can cause anger, sadness, and despair for so many. And as I've said before here on Locked On Patriots, I can't even begin to imagine the oppression and injustice that so many of you feel each and every day. Throughout the sports world right now, we're seeing statements, poignant statements, being made by some of the most recognizable athletes in the world. I implore you to remember that athletes who are using their platform to make these types

of statements are doing so in the hopes of making a change they wish to see in the world. It's how I close my show every single day. Folks, for me, it's so much more than just a tagline, and I hope it is for all of you as well. But we really will not be able to change unless we learn to cooperate. That means listening to each other, asking the right questions so you can gain the right type of understanding, and using your voice in whatever way you can to help to bring change, meaningful change, not just in our own lives, not just in the country,

but in the world itself. That's what so many athletes in all major professional sports are doing right now. They're trying to use the platform they've been given to bring attention to a matter that needs our attention. It needs our help. And that's the type of message that I heard today when listening to the McCourty twins and reading the statements made by Stephon Gilmore and Cam Newton. Their message is clear. As a society, as a whole, in this country, we can get better. But first, we have to do better. And that starts individually with each and every one of us. On the field in Foxborough, there were some shareable news and notes. And I'll start with an in-game injury. And I say in-game because this really was more of a scrimmage environment today.

And the scare of the day, at least the injury scare of the day, occurred when starting left guard Joe Tooney was slow to get up at one point after apparently hurting his left wrist or forearm. He went off the field, had a team doctor and a trainer look at it. Tooney was on the sideline for a bit, did see some limited action, but at the end of the day, it did look as if the injury was not as bad as it initially seemed to be. So once again, we'll continue to keep a sharp eye on Joe Tooney, but it looks like the Patriots are going to be okay on this one.

And as for the in-scrimmage action, well, the defense dominated once again today. Although there were a couple of offensive highlights, one of them was the first play on the Patriots' 11-on-11 work. Running back Damian Harris, probably the play of the day here, folks. Takes a handoff 65 yards for a touchdown. Sprung open by some excellent blocking up front by Joe Tooney and David Andrews. He was able to hold on to the football, even with Jason McCourty chasing him down and trying to knock it out.

Harris looks locked in, and he's making a strong case to be running back one, folks. And I say that with a great amount of admiration for Sonny Michel. But Harris really has looked good, and he's having himself a monster camp. Cam Newton had a solid day, tossed an impressive touchdown to James White on the slant. Brian Hoyer had another touchdown, too. Who made that man a gunner of Shelveski who continues to make a strong case for a roster spot on this team? Jared Stidham, Brian Hoyer, and even Brian Lewerke all took reps during team drills. But once again, the defense proving that they are a formidable unit. For the second straight day in a row, safety Terrence Brooks was able to intercept a Cam Newton pass. He continues his strong camp.

Per Evan Lazar of CLNS Media, who was in attendance to cover today's scrimmage, Dietrich Wise, Juwan Bentley, D'Angelo Ross at the cornerback position, also Juwan Williams, and AdrianAngelo Ross at the cornerback position, also Juwan Williams and Adrian Phillips all making plays today and it's becoming obvious that there is a lot to be excited about when it comes to this defense. Folks as we get closer to the start of the regular season we continue to live in hope that the overall health and well-being of all the players around the NFL will allow for an on-time start to the 2020 NFL season and in in just a moment, Dr. Jessica Flynn will join me here on the pod to provide her expert medical analysis on not only why the NFL has done better than most experts thought they

would when it came to COVID-19 testing, but why they might be able to do even a little bit better in the future. But before the Locked On Patriots podcast continues, we all know that the summer days we all know and love continue to wane. It's August 27th, and the month of September is nearly upon us. But there's still time to get out, enjoy the great weather by riding around in your automobile. To do so, you want to make sure that it's looking and running at its absolute best. And for me, the absolute best way to do that is to visit my good friends at rockauto.com. Rockauto.com is a family business serving auto

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Patriots fans, my guest today is among the nation's leading experts in the field of sports medicine. She is a sports medicine physician at Lahy Hospital and Medical Center in Burlington, Massachusetts. In addition, she provides some of the best sports injury analysis in the country for Boston Sports Journal and sports injury commentary for NBC Sports Boston. It is my honor to once again welcome Dr. Jessica Flynn to the Locked On Patriots podcast. Dr. Flynn, thank you so much for joining me today and welcome back to Locked On Patriots. Thanks so much for having me back.

Oh, anytime. My pleasure. And I feel like a broken record every time I have a guest on, whether it be someone with your medical knowledge or whether it be someone with any type of expertise in the world of professional football or even just in society as a whole, to say that 2020 has been a challenging year is a massive understatement and for a lot of different reasons. But one of the main reasons that we'll stick to today is the setbacks and the complications arising from the COVID-19 pandemic. They're numerous and they have affected how we watch and follow professional sports, particularly the NFL. And folks, we will discuss that on today's pod. But just first, the Patriots, as all NFL teams, are operating under a new normal. And not just with regard to the pandemic. Strength and conditioning are a concern as well. And the elimination of OTAs, minicamps, preseason games could be an increased risk of injury.

And the Patriots have had some players experience this lately during training camp. Sonny Michel just recently returning from active pup. As a matter of fact, just yesterday returned to the field. High profile players like Nikhil Harry, Devin Asiasi have been pulling up with injuries. They're still on the field, but they're being limited in their action. And of course, injury speculation surrounding Jarrett Stidham and Justin Rohrwasser. Those have been the major stories. Not to mention Cam Newton as well. There's the throwing shoulder. There's his feet. People are concerned with what these athletes might be able to do on the field this year.

In fact, today, Joe Tooney actually suffered what appeared to be a left forearm or wrist injury that caused him to leave the field during today's scrimmage. So that's a pretty long laundry list, Jess. But because information is very limited on individual player injuries at this time, I guess I'll ask the question this way. Should there be a legitimate concern that injuries could be on the rise this year because of the changes in conditioning time? Or have you seen enough in the strength and conditioning units on teams like the Patriots to indicate that the risk this year would be either equal or maybe even just a little bit higher than in years past? I think it's a great question. You know, anytime you have disruption of a normal off-season routine for an athlete,

you certainly have concerns that injuries could pop up and be a problem. And specifically this preseason where a lot of athletes were stuck at home and there was a lot of variability about sort of how much access they had to their typical strength and conditioning coaches so the athlete could live in Arkansas but maybe train with a strength and conditioning coach in New Jersey right and that could have been disrupted this offseason so I think the most worrisome injury that we could sort of see coming out of this type of a break would be soft tissue injuries. So things like hip flexor strains, hamstring tears, quad

strains. Those are the things that we worry the most about. Sometimes in quarterbacks also, you know, overuse injuries. They can either be primary, so, you, so elbow pain from throwing, or secondary, meaning they have a lower body injury, a soft tissue injury like hamstring hip flexor, and then they overcompensate with their upper body and start developing those upper body issues. So those are the types of things that we're looking for in athletes to say whether or not there's going to be sort of an increased rate of injury. And I don't think we really know yet, and you sort of alluded to it, we just don't really know what's happening in these preseason practices. We're not getting as clear a picture as we typically do,

even with the Patriots this preseason. So I think it's certainly something to keep an eye on. Yeah, I agree with you, and I'm glad that you mentioned the hip flexors and the soft tissue injuries because even though the team hasn't been overly forthcoming when it comes to some of the information regarding these injuries, we did find out a little bit last week about Jarrett had undergone some tests at Mass General and that they had come back negative. And there was a lot of question as to what his malady might be. All we knew for sure that it was a lower body injury. Some had reported the leg, some had reported his hip. And then after that, he seems to be out there, increased action every single day and looks to be stronger every day. But it is something that is a concern. And you mentioned overuse. That term has gotten thrown around when it comes to Jarrett. So I'm glad that I think that

helps to actually provide a little bit of clarification as to what might be wrong. Don't get me wrong, folks. I'm not saying Jess just diagnosed what Jarrett Stidham has or what he's been going through. But it's nice to know at least a little background on some of these injuries. So that way you can put it into context when they're reported. Obviously, when they happen on the field of battle, it's a different story. People are right there. We tend to get on-site or on-the-spot initial diagnoses, and then we wait for either an MRI or we wait for any type of medical testing to confirm or deny some of these rumors. So it's good to have the background.

And you know as well as I do, Jess, the Patriots are so forthcoming with information. It's always easy to extract the information that we need to keep our public informed. But you do that so well. Jess is always on the money. Folks, during in-game, I would recommend keeping her Twitter right open and right there for all to see because she's usually right on the money, right on the spot, and that is not easy to do. And we all appreciate it because it makes us look a little bit smarter as well. But Jess, obviously the biggest concern over health this year, aside from strength and conditioning, is COVID-19.

And when we last spoke, we had concerns about what the NFL testing procedures might look like, whether training camps would be overly susceptible to the spread of this illness. Thus far, the NFL has managed to run a pretty tight ship in that department. What has impressed you the most about the NFL procedures thus far? And do you believe this is sustainable? Yeah, I think that's the question. What I've seen so far has been really remarkable because this is something that's never, ever been done before. And, you know, it takes guts to try to make this happen. So I have to applaud the, you know, the NFL, the NFLPA on the plan that they made. And the fact that they are flexible and they're willing to sort of pivot and change their protocol depending on the situation.

And obviously we're learning more and more every day about this virus and this pandemic. So that's really important to be able to be flexible. I think the biggest question will be going forward when you have larger outbreaks in certain areas. And, you know, we're getting later into the season and athletes who have kids have their kids in school and the athletes are living at home with them. So their potential exposure is there. Then the athletes are traveling for a weight game and they're exposed to new people, a new city. I think that's going to be the most important test. And, you know, even Dr. Alan Sills, you know, has said that he admits that that's going to be the ultimate test. So I think we need to sort of wait and see what happens. But what I've seen so far really truly has been remarkable. And I'm absolutely in 100% agreement with you.

I, for one, am surprised. I was worried about especially linemen. And I'm not saying that because I don't think that everyone that goes to a football field is somehow at risk. We know football is a very intense contact sport, and there's contact between offensive and defensive players all the time. But especially in the trenches, you're lining up across from linemen, whether it be on the interior defensive line or the interior offensive line

or the ends position, the guards, the tackles when it comes to the O-line and then the defensive end when it comes to the defense. These are players that are in close proximity with one another. They're essentially right in each other's faces. And you worried about having those types of practices and yielding those types of results. The NFL has been impressive so far, and I'm glad that you lent your expertise in that area because it adds a new dimension to it. But one thing that you did mention, especially over the course of the last few days, and the Patriots fell victim to this as well, is the term false positive. And in a moment, folks, Dr. Jessica Flynn will provide her insight on how the NFL might handle positive and false positive cases of COVID-19 and what

might be done to prevent them during the season. Some recent news information might shed some light on that. This and more. When the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Patriots fans. Renowned sports medicine physician. Dr. Jessica Flynn joins me today. On Locked On Patriots. And Jess.

We spoke in the previous segment. About the Patriots finding themselves. In the same territory. As all the 31 other NFL teams. When it comes to strength and conditioning. But also when it comes to COVID-19. And you eloquently stated earlier this summer that the reality is that the NFL will experience positive cases regardless of whether or not those that test positive are symptomatic. And we haven't really seen what teams will do with a rash of positive cases. How many cases will it take to shut down a team?

Or what's going to happen to the rest of the league if and when that happens? But we did recently see several teams, including the Patriots, by the way, experience false positive tests. And you were quite vocal in urging everyone to exercise caution in using that term. If you could enlighten our listeners on exactly what a false positive test really is, a little bit of background as to why this became such a problem not more than a week ago, and why it's so dangerous to jump to conclusions. Yeah, I mean, I could talk about this for an hour, but I will try to keep it very brief. You know, I think the major issue is that we're using a very sophisticated test called reverse transcriptase PCR to screen an asymptomatic population, right? So you're taking healthy athletes and we're using this super, super sophisticated test to see if they might be positive, knowing that there's a very low chance that they will be positive.

And that can lead to problems. As far as the test is concerned, the way that it's done is a swab is taken from the nose, and that swab then has to be transported along with every other swab of every staff member, every player, to a regional lab. And it sounds like the issue over the weekend was from a lab in New Jersey. So this company, BioReference, uses a lab in New Jersey. This whole region sent all of their tests. And all those tests, all those swabs, are sort of soaked and a liquid is made.

And that liquid that includes the sputum or the, you know, the snot from the nose kind of gets put into these tiny, tiny wells. It's a tray and it can have over 90 up until, you know, 300 little tiny wells and they're right next to each other, just separated by a tiny barrier. So there's a lot of room for contamination of the samples and the test is really difficult to do so you need a lab that does a ton of these tests and it may be that some of these labs are not used to running this type of a volume of tests when you have a positive RT-PCR test. That means there definitely was a piece of virus in the well. I mean, I hate

to say definite. Doctors never ever use that word, definitely yes or definitely no. I suppose there could be a computer error, but most of the time it means there was a piece of virus in there. So the question when the NFL suddenly had 77 positive tests tests when they'd had zero in the week leading up to it was how could this have happened? And so their first concern was contamination. So, yes, that was a risk. But I think the important thing, reporters everywhere were saying, you know, nine false positives on this team, eight false positives on this team. And they were saying this right after the news broke. And that was too soon, I knew, for there to be a repeat test. And in order for you to be able to

say these are definitely false positives, you have to do a repeat test, the same test, to know that they were truly false. Because yeah, it could have been a fluke, but wouldn't it have been bad if we really missed 77 positive tests? So that was the important thing I wanted to drive home. And I'm so glad that you did, because when it comes to the types of testing that the NFL is employing, and we see these players and these teams taking the field, despite numerous reports that so many of their players are false positives or testing positive or things of that nature. It's so important to know exactly what the testing procedure is, the amount of time it takes, and the retesting procedure that allows those types of tests to either be positive or false positives.

And Tom Palacero, I thought, put together a very nice thread a few days ago explaining exactly what the NFL's procedure is about close contacts returning to work, how teams are practicing, what the time frame is between the false positive and the positive, and also that the NFL right now is exploring the option of conducting pregame tests on Fridays before a Sunday game. That would provide extra time to root out the false positives because of the additional testing time without having to gut game day rosters for essentially no reason. And that's something that I know the NFL is very worried about. So your insight on a false positive and exactly what that means, how the testing procedure works,

I think is something that will be an invaluable piece of information for all of our listeners. And I thank you for that. But no problem. Oh, you're very welcome. But the last question that I have for you today, Jess, is recent information. As early as yesterday, Abbott announcing that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has issued emergency use authorization for its Bionax Now COVID-19 card rapid test for detection of infection from COVID-19. Now, Abbott is apparently going to sell this test for $5. It's highly portable, about the size of a credit card from what I've read, and it provides results in 15 minutes. Bionax Now is using, flow technology, making it a reliable and familiar format for frequent mass testing throughout their healthcare provider spectrum.

Now, we know the NFL is probably one of the leaders out there right now in mass testing. They're looking for quick, easy results. They're looking for reliable results. And they're looking for something that can be sustained across a period of time. Now, obviously, the impact on society here as a whole is a much bigger story here than just the NFL, but because this is locked on Patriots, it seems like this could help professional sports teams like the NFL and like the New England Patriots. In your estimation, how likely is that scenario that this test that Abbott announced yesterday could be used by the NFL? And do you believe that it would fit the guidelines that

they've put in place to help ensure the safety of its players and coaches into the regular season and maybe even into the playoffs? You know, so yes, I do. And this type of test is called an antigen test. So it's different than the PCR test in that it's not looking for genetic information for RNA from the virus. It's actually looking for a piece of the virus, a part of the outside of the virus. And that's what allows it to be rapid because you don't have to heat up the specimen, which is part of the PCR test that takes forever. That's why the results take 12 to 24 hours. And you don't have to amplify the RNA. But it's being used currently by the NBA. This is something that's already out there and being tested in professional sports. There was an article in The Athletic just a few days ago about it. And it's something that is excellent for a screening test. So it's much more well-suited to a screening test, right? It's a test that is readily available.

It's inexpensive. It's pretty sensitive, pretty specific. It's not perfect. It's not as good as a PCR, but it's close. And if you can give it once a day and get your results right away, or sometimes twice a day even, then it's just as good as doing the PCR. And, you know, as you alluded to, that means that it might be really applicable in real life for kids trying to go back to school, parents trying to go back into the workplace. it could be really,

really beneficial. So it's not quite as good a test, but it's good enough that it would be much more efficient than the test we're doing right now, which, I mean, if you and I needed to go get tested, we would get tested with a PCR test, but we might not get the results for two weeks. Well, that's just a wasted test. That's not helpful. So I think this is something that's really exciting, and I'm excited to see how it applies. And again, Abbott's not the only one. There are more coming down the pipeline. Excellent. And I'm glad that you offered that insight about Abbott not being the only one. The existence of this type of testing already in the NBA and throughout professional sports, and who knows, this could end up revolutionizing the way the NFL does things, especially because

the NFL was not conducive to putting a bubble in place the way the NHL and the NBA have done. This is definitely a good thing, I think, for the NFL. And we'll always be sure to keep our sharp eye on what this means for COVID-19 testing and trying to keep the players and the coaches as healthy as possible as we head into the regular season. Because as we all know, the NFL looks to be marching toward an on-time start. And that's something that I think I had my doubts on. I think we all did. But the NFL has done a pretty good job in keeping that schedule intact.

And we'll see what happens. But Jess, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show today to provide your wisdom and counsel. I use that term a lot as a punchline here on Locked On Patriots, but when it comes to someone of your qualifications, I assure you folks, there's no punchline involved there. Jess is one of the top leading minds in her field and I always appreciate your insight when it comes to COVID and when it comes to strength and conditioning as well. And we look forward to speaking with you again throughout the season, hopefully for overarching reasons and not individual injuries.

Those are always moments that make sports fans cringe. And we want to see a healthy Patriots team out there this year. I think after the off season that we've all had, we've earned that. Jess, please take a moment to enlighten our listeners where they can find you. Again, like I said, folks on game day, when it comes to a player pulling up or being pulled out of action, go directly to Jess's Twitter feed. You will not be disappointed. She'll be there to provide you with information. And like I said,

9.99 times out of 10, she usually nails it right on the money. So, uh, please, uh, enlighten our, uh, our listeners where they can find you and where they can read some of your great work that's posted throughout the year. Well, thanks so much for your kind words. So you can find me on Twitter at Jess Dede, J E S S D ED-E, or you can read me on bostonsportsjournal.com. Excellent. And again, I highly recommend reading all of Jess's work. Dr. Flynn, what can I say? Thank you so much for joining me today. Stay safe, stay well. My best to you and your family.

And once again, we look forward to having you back here really soon on Locked On Patriots. Thanks so much for having me, Mike. Go Pats. And so Patriots fans, we are almost ready to put a bow on the week that was here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. But there is still one more day left here on the pod. And believe me when I tell you, folks, we will be closing out the week in style here on Locked On Patriots because joining me tomorrow here on the podcast is a voice with which all of you Foxborough faithful are quite familiar. Think you might know who it is? Well, to see if you were right and to ensure that you do not miss a second of the action,

please be sure to subscribe to Locked On Patriots on Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Spotify. Download Locked On Patriots wherever you get your podcasts. Once again, I'm Mike DeBate. I thank Dr. Jessica Flynn for her time, her insight, and her appearance today. But most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for staying locked into Locked on Patriots. Stay safe.

Stay well. Continue to be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great day, everyone.