Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Legally Lust: Talking Patriots, NFL and COVID-19 Legalities with Daniel Lust - 6/26/2020

Episode Date: June 26, 2020

The story of 2020 continues to be COVID-19 and its effect on all aspects of society, including sports. Joining host Mike D’Abate is attorney and sports law expert Daniel Lust. The duo discuss the legal and fiscal challenges that might be faced by the NFL during this pandemic. They also delve into  some legal  and NFL policy matters that still surround members of the New England Patriots.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patriots fans, you are now locked in to the Locked On Patriots Podcast. I'm going to show you how to make a beautiful and beautiful flower. I'm going to use a small flower pot. I'm going to use a small pot Hello to all of you, Foxborough faithful. Welcome to your Legal Eagle Friday episode of the Lockdown Patriots podcast, your daily home for news notes and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the

New England Patriots. Today's episode is brought to you by rockauto.com. Amazing selection, reliably low prices, all the parts your car will ever need. Visit rockauto.com and tell them Lockdown sent you. Patriots fans, it is Friday and it is great to be back on the pod. My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Locked On Patriots podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network,

your team every day. And folks, because it's your team every day, that means your questions, your comments, and your feedback, always welcomed and greatly appreciated. Feel free to share that feedback anytime by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter

at M-DATEFPC. And while you're out there saying, how you doing to the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Locked On Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots. Folks, again, Locked On Patriots is back after a brief two-day hiatus, but we're back to close out the week and to close it out in a big way. Just a mere few seconds ago, you heard me introduce today's show as Legal Eagle Friday. And folks, there is a reason for that. No, it has nothing to do with the movie starring Robert Redford from the 80s.

It's because that right here today on Locked On Patriots, we close out the week with the wisdom and counsel, pun intended, of the Locked On Podcast Network's resident legal eagle when it comes to sports and the law. Daniel Luss joins me today here on the pod, and his has been a very common voice heard on a lot of different podcasts throughout the network, and folks, there's no rhyme or reason to why. He's simply one of the best at what he does. In addition to all the great insight he provides to so many of our hosts here at Locked On,

you may have also heard him on other platforms such as ESPN, Sirius XM Satellite Radio, CBS and Fox Sports, and that's just to name a few. Daniel is also the co-host of Conduct Detrimental, the sports law podcast alongside Daniel Wallach. And Daniel has been one of the key voices lately when it comes to the legalities and potential difficulties being faced by all major sports organizations right now in their attempts to come back from the COVID-19 pandemic. Of course, this is Locked On Patriots, so we're going to take an NFL-centric approach. What does a potential return from a pandemic that of which we haven't seen in our lifetime

mean for the health, welfare, and security of all players involved? What legal steps are being taken to protect both the NFL and its players from physical harm? And of course, what does all of this mean from a financial standpoint? Will a likely plummet of the NFL's salary cap cause major financial problems for NFL franchises? And what does it mean for the free agency contracts that are likely to be signed next offseason?

Daniel will give his opinion on this and more. But also, folks, remember, this is Locked On Patriots, and that means I have a couple of Patriots-related questions for him as well. What do the recent dust-ups with the law had by Patrick Chung, Jawan Williams, and Julian Edelman mean for their on-field status in 2020? And oh yeah, remember that videotaping incident from Cincinnati? Well, today Daniel's going to join me in being on to Cincinnati, because we are going to

revisit that, and why he feels it's taken the NFL so long to come to a resolution. Folks, as you can see, it is an action-packed docket here on the pod. So settle in and prepare for the wisdom and counsel, and I love that I can use that in a literal setting right now, folks, of renowned sports attorney Daniel Lust right here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. But first, today being Friday, the 26th of June in the year of 2020, we are reminded that summer is here, and the 4th of July is almost upon us. And that may mean some safe, responsible, and even socially distant traveling might be in your future.

And if that's the case, you want to make sure that your automobile not only looks good, but it runs good too. And to keep your car looking and running at its absolute best, you need to visit my friends at rockauto.com. Now, the chain stores have different price tiers for professional mechanics and do-it-yourselfers, but rockauto.com's prices, they're the same for everybody, and they're reliably low. In fact, folks, rockauto.com always offers the lowest possible prices with the best possible customer satisfaction. They're for everybody, and rockuto.com always offers the lowest possible prices with the best possible customer satisfaction. They're for everybody, and RockAuto.com does not require a membership or account login. They're a family business serving auto parts customers online for 20 years.

Go to RockAuto.com and shop for auto and body parts from hundreds of manufacturers. They have everything from engine control modules to brake pads to tail lamps, motor oil, even new carpet. Whether it's for your classic or your daily driver, get everything you need in a few easy clicks delivered directly to your door. The RockAuto.com catalog is unique and remarkably easy to navigate. Quickly see all the parts available for your vehicle and choose the brands, specifications, and best part, the prices that you prefer. Why spend up to twice as much for the same parts? Go to rockauto.com right now and see all the parts available for your car or truck. Make sure to put Locked On in their How Did You Hear About Us box so they know that we sent you.

Amazing selection, reliably low prices, all the parts your car will ever need. rockauto.com. CBS and Fox Sports. That's just to name a few folks. He is also the co-host of Conduct Detrimental, the sports law podcast alongside Daniel Wallach. Daniel Luss joins me today. Welcome to the Lockdown Patriots podcast, Counselor. Thank you, Mike. Pleasure to be here. And as you kind of said, I've made the rounds on the Lockdown podcast to kind of explaining what NFL fans have to look forward to, whether there'll be football. And then I'm sure you and I will get into maybe some particular players that have been

involved in legal trouble. So happy to break it all down with you. Absolutely. And of course, here on Locked On Patriots, folks, we take a Patriot-centric approach. But when it comes to something like the COVID-19 pandemic, it really is a global approach. It's a much wider spectrum, and you're going to be able to provide some intricate and very good details that only you can provide. And this is a conversation I've been looking forward to. I will warn you, Daniel,

I was going to try to work in a quirky play on words correlation between the name of your podcast, Conduct Detrimental, and a line from one of my favorite legal dramas, A Few Good Men. And then I remembered that I realized that one of the charges that was against Dawson and Downey in that movie was conduct unbecoming, not conduct detrimental, so it kind of fell flat. But I figured I'd at least throw that out there. My listeners know the one-liners and the other movie lines that I put out there, so I won't put you on the spot with that. But I digress.

The good news is that I'm a new dad, so I'm working on my dad jokes. So maybe we can work on our corny humor together. See, that's good. I am the king of dad jokes, I've been told, as a result of this podcast. So you know what? I guess there are worse labels I could be saddled with, my friends. But, Daniel, again, you know, the story of the day, the week, and the month continues to be COVID-19. And, folks, we are going to discuss some of the legal and fiscal challenges that might be faced by the NFL during this pandemic.

And your insight will be invaluable to our listeners in that department. However, like I said earlier, this is Locked On Patriots. And there are some legal matters that still surround a few players on this team, and the Patriots team as a whole, actually, when it comes to the league policy as well. So let's start there. A handful of current Patriots have had some recent rushes with the law, Daniel, most notably Patrick Chung, Julian Edelman, and Juwan Williams. Now, just as a quick recap for all of us, Patrick Chung was

indicted in New Hampshire in August of 2019 for felony possession of a controlled drug. The Belknap County Attorney's Office announced that the charge against Chung was conditionally dismissed, and that was pending Chung's compliance with court-ordered drug testing and community service. As for Edelman, he was arrested in January in Beverly Hills, cited for misdemeanor vandalism. According to the police, he jumped on the hood of a vehicle, which caused some damage to the vehicle. After the arrest, he was then subsequently released. And of course, during that same month in January, a Tennessee Highway Patrol officer allegedly found, quote, an unnamed controlled substance, prescription drugs, and drug paraphernalia

in Jawan Williams' vehicle during a traffic stop on January 17th of this year. And Williams is also facing charges for speeding on that. Now, Daniel, to the untrained legal eye, meaning mine, the incidents involving Chung and Edelman appear to have been legally resolved, but Williams, on the other hand, might still have some legal battles ahead. What types of off-field issues are still outstanding in all three cases? Could any of these incidents have on-field repercussions in 2020? So, you know, I think you laid it out pretty cleanly. And, you know, at least for those three, and I, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, I actually saw, I think it was just this past week, maybe a week or two ago,

I think they're getting close to or maybe they're right there on the Juwan Williams case coming up with their own resolution. And if that were to happen, it looks like that would be a plea deal similar to what Patrick Chung received. It's not that the charges just have disappeared. It's that you're pleading that the case is now resolved and then there will be some type of, you know, be it a community service, you know, hours or some type of probationary period. And if you are, you know, on good behavior throughout that period, be it a year, two years, then the, then the cases or the charges will kind of go away. So that's, what's called a conditional discharge. That means, you know, if you're good for the year, the thing gets expunged for the record. Now we'll put for purposes of this, and I'm happy to kind of break it down with you, but we'll put Williams and Chung in that category. As they took a, you know, are planning to or already have taken a plea.

And then, you know, those charges, they'll still be there. But, you know, at some point they might go away. Separate for Edelman, Edelman, as people and as you laid out, vandalism. You know, people remember he jumped on the hood of a car, caused some property damage. That case, differently than those other two, has been just disappeared. The witness involved there just said he didn't want to press charges. He was ready, fully reimbursed for the damage to his vehicle, you know, the vehicle fully repaired. So those charges are going away.

Okay, so I guess that's kind of the overarching framework. And separately, I'm sure the question, you know, the more important question for Patriots fans is how this will, you know, impact suspensions and possible disciplinary proceedings. And I think, you know, and I'm happy to, you know, kind of break it down, Mike. But first and foremost, assuming all these cases are now done, there's roughly around a 30-day window. And obviously going to have a little bit of leeway with this pandemic. But 30 days from the conclusion of these cases for the NFL to start and ramping up their investigation. So we're normally you'd have a little bit more progress on this. But because of the pandemic, no word on whether suspensions will result. But just because these legal criminal cases are gone or you're about to be gone definitely doesn't mean that you necessarily avoid a suspension.

Yeah, and such great insight, Daniel. Thank you. First of all, I want to thank you for clarifying on Julian Edelman. I had heard that that was essentially what had happened with his case, but I don't know if a lot of the listeners around had. I know it was somewhat publicized, wasn't heavily publicized that those charges had, in fact, gone away from a legal standpoint. So good news for him personally. But again, professionally on the field is where the minds of so much of Patriots Nation are. And again, when we talk about guys like Patrick Chung and Juwan Williams, there still might be repercussions down the line.

So I thank you for clarifying that in that regard. And I think it gives us a much clearer picture as to where we might be with those three when it comes to potential difficulties or potential sanctions on the field. Staying on that topic for just a moment, Daniel, the Patriots as a team always seem to be in the crosshairs of the NFL for issues that, according to New England fans, seem quite trivial. But that's a conversation for another day, my friend. We'll put that one on the back burner for now. Last December, the NFL began a probe into the Patriots' videotaping of the Bengals' sideline,

in which the organization's video crew, independent of the football team's operation, inappropriately filmed, and I'm using these exact quotes from the Patriots' statement, inappropriately filmed the field from the Patriots statement, inappropriately filmed the field from the press box. And that was during a contest between the Cleveland Browns and the Cincinnati Bengals for the Do Your Job video series on what a day in the life would be for an advanced scout. Now, the Patriots had said that the sole purpose of filming this was to provide an illustration of what an advanced scout at work does on the road. There was no intention of using the footage for any other purpose.

But Bill Belichick has stated over and over again that the team had no knowledge of this. Kraft Productions is a separate entity from that of the Patriots football operations. We've heard a lot from the league, from Roger Goodell saying that they want to be thorough, they're investigating very strongly, to media reports from the NFL network even that the NFL was leaning toward believing the Patriots side of the story and that not much may come about from this. But it seems to be the consensus that the Patriots will face some sort of sanction or ramification from this. When that decision is handed down, Daniel, in your opinion, what should Patriots fans expect in terms of sanctions or losses for the 2020 season or even beyond that? So, you know, I guess as a first point, you know, there's really no reason there has been

no decision on this yet. This obviously happened during the NFL season way back in December. I'm not really sure what would be taking the NFL six months. And you can only really blame maybe three months on the pandemic. But it's not really such a complicated issue. So the reports in December, you know, believe them if you want. The NFL was having trouble making that causal connection between this craft video crew and the Patriots. And I guess just as an important legal point, the NFL's policy in their investigations,

it's not really, you're not in a courtroom, right? It's not beyond a reasonable doubt. But just kind of playing that and understanding what the arguments will be made. This is a, for intensive purposes, we'll call this a separate employee. And if you were, for example, Mike, if you're the janitor of some Fortune 500 company, your statements can't bind the company.

That's just not how it works. You have to be of a certain level and certain threshold of the company. So if you're the president of the company, sure. Vice president company, yes. And then as you get slower and lower down that spectrum, your comments can't really bind the company. So what a lot of people just around football are kind of pointing to are these statements by this craft employee know, Kraft employee that said, oh, well, I'll delete it. You know, not a big deal. Let's not tell anybody about this. You know, those obviously, you know, are going to be viewed as a little bit controversial on the public side.

But this rogue actor, for all intents and purposes, you know, that's again, you have to prove this standard. Those statements alone can't really prove anything, right? It may be just a little bit of smoke, maybe warranting an investigation as it has, but beyond that, you can't just assume guilt because some guy felt bad and wanted to delete it. So I think, you know, I just, as I've seen reports, just the same as you are, if they, if they can establish this causal link I've seen the number $500,000 fine and maybe a mid round draft pick to the extent that they can prove this causal connection. But if they can't, right, if the evidence isn't there,

and it's a much lower bar, obviously, for the NFL, you know, maybe a smaller fine, maybe even a lower round draft pick, or obviously, Mike, nothing at all, because there has to be some type of causal connection. And to the extent the Patriots win on their argument that they were in no way, shape, or form connected to this, you know, this version of, you know, the Kraft's video crew, I mean, that's their argument. So I think for Patriots fans, the fact that it's taking so long, generally in the law is a good sign that the NFL doesn't feel confident

that there's enough there to proceed. So I would think in terms of this range of punishment, from no punishment to somewhere around a mid-round pick and a $500,000 fine, I think you're trending towards a favorable disposition for the Patriots. Obviously, we're just kind of speculating at this point because there has been nothing really since December, but the fact that it's taking this long, I think, is a good sign if you're a fan of the New England Patriots. Excellent insight. Phenomenal insight,

as a matter of fact, and exactly what we were looking for in this case. Again, Daniel, New England fans are very leery of the way the NFL uses language. We can do a whole podcast together, and maybe we will at some point before the season begins, on the phrase, more probable than not. And any Patriots fan knows exactly what I mean by that. Just look up to Flategate, more probable than not, folks. You will see exactly what I'm referring to. But you mentioned the causal connection, and I think that's something that is maybe not

publicized as much as Patriots fans would like to see it publicized as. But I think you lend such great insight onto that in terms of why this is taking so long, what the NFL might be doing, and what it might mean for the Patriots down the line. Worst case scenario, and it sounds like that, and again, I'm not putting you on the spot. We're not going to put this all over if the Patriots end up getting, you know, harsher punishment than this. But it sounds like, you know, maybe the loss of a mid-round draft pick or a financial fine could be something that they might face. I'm of the knowledge or I'm of the opinion, I should say, not really knowledge, but more of the opinion that I think the Patriots will probably receive something. I think that there's just too much precedent within the league that would prevent them

from being able to do that. But at the same time, you had mentioned if there's no causal connection there, they can't punish him for something that is not directly related to team operations. So we live in hope. This was a big story when it broke. I remember a podcast with Joe Goodberry, who used to host Locked on Bengals here. And I believe his preface of that podcast was, listen to Mike read from the book of Sith as he defends the cheating scandal in New England. I thought that was a little harsh. You know, and all kidding aside, Joe is a great guy.

Mike is an impartial, you know, I'm not, I'm on a, I'm not, you know, I'm not, I'm not on the side of the law. I'm right. I'm not on the side of the Patriots or Bengals. If I'm the attorney and I'm advancing the Patriots position, you know, the Bengals at the time, I think with a one win Cincinnati Bengals, it's not like the taping alleged taping was happening during, you know, the conference finals or, you know, even with an opponent who, you know, maybe they're jockeying,

maybe it's the Kansas City Chiefs. So I think that just the argument of common sense, right? The Patriots didn't need to be videotaping the Bengals to beat the Bengals, right? That's just, again, it's not really the legal argument, and it's not necessarily going to be an actual argument that the NFL considers. But just common sense tells you, right, if the Patriots really wanted to videotape someone to get an advantage, maybe it would make sense to do it with a different team. The Bengals obviously ending up with the number one overall pick in the draft, and obviously

the Patriots handily winning that game. So I think that's just the common sense argument. And I think, you know, again, not that I want to end up on like freezing cold takes exposed or anything like that, but at the end of the day, it's Cincinnati Bengals in a game that the Patriots didn't really, you know, wasn't really, we'll say like the primetime game that everyone was watching. It's not the Super Bowl. So I think that common sense argument to it, obviously the Patriots have a history of being involved in these types of allegations, but it just would behoove, you know, common sense that that would happen here. Again,

there still could be punishment that results, but I think that's why we're looking closer to a mid-round pick as opposed to something in the deflategate situation. Yeah, absolutely. And again, you mentioned common sense, and so often it gets lost in the narrative of a lot of these stories. And it's not just unique to the Patriots, but it seems to follow them because of the history that they've had. My whole point to all of this is if the Patriots were going to try to resurrect the Spygate cheating scandal, which anybody that's read the original Spygate knows that there were a lot of different circumstances surrounding that, that most of the public is not aware of. But again, conversation for another day, my friend. If the Patriots were even going to try to think about doing something like this again this guy this scout was capturing

something on a camera wearing crafts productions apparel uh very much in the public eye very much visible to everyone that was there in the press box why would you go through all the rigmarole of of having a guy that was there filming information on the sideline that anybody with a cell phone camera in the stadium could have possibly captured it just seemed like an elaborate way to do something that didn't need to be done elaborately and when you think about it in the common sense aspect of that it just seemed unlikely that the Patriots were really up to anything sinister especially when doing it the way they did would make them so susceptible to getting caught and I think it was just wrong place, wrong time.

But again, we'll see what the NFL comes down with. And I thank you for being the objective ombudsman here, Daniel, because I have a little bit of a Patriots bias. I'm sure, as you know, we all do when it comes to our teams. Shocking, shocking. Yeah, exactly. Host of Locked On Patriots. Who would have thought that I wouldn't have that bias but uh no all kidding aside i appreciate your objective opinion because it really is something that we needed today pats fans locked on's resident legal eagle has already

lent an amazing amount of his expertise on sports law to locked on patriots but we're just getting started here folks in just a moment daniel lust and I will discuss the legal and fiscal ramifications of the NFL's response to the COVID-19 pandemic and what this might mean for football both this season and even beyond 2020. This and more when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. But first, as we continue to adjust to our new normal, finding the energy to complete daily tasks is not exactly easy. And you know what else isn't easy, folks?

Finding a healthy, low-calorie treat that is just as delicious. Well, your search for a protein bar that gives you everything you need and everything you could possibly want is over. Bilt Bar is that tasty treat that you've been looking for. So don't delay. Make it your go-to protein bar today. I continue to love each and every great flavor that Bilt Bar puts out. My personal favorite is the banana nut bread. And again, folks, it tastes so good, you would swear that it was freshly sliced from the kitchen.

100% real chocolate, soft, easy to chew, and they're available in 16 amazing flavors like peanut butter brownie and mint brownie, just to name a couple. But here's the best part. Built Bar is not only low calorie and low sugar, but it's also high protein and high fiber. And folks, they're absolutely delicious. Built Bar has no crazy additives, half the calories of its most popular competitors, and get this, seven times fewer carbs, seven times fewer sugar grams, and more protein. How can it be that good for you and taste that good? Well, folks, all I can tell you is Built Bar is just that good. Go to BuiltBar.com today, Friday, June 26, 2020, and take advantage of their amazing inventory closeout, 50% off everything. And I haven't even gotten to the real best part of this yet, folks. 100% of all of these profits will be donated to

organizations that support education, eradication of poverty, promoting equality, and ending hate and racism. Again, that's BiltBar.com, B-U-I-L-T-B-A-R.com, so you too can eat healthy while indulging in a delicious treat. Don't delay. Make Bilt Bar your go-to protein bar today. Once again, Patriots fans, renowned attorney and sports law expert Daniel Lust joins me today on Locked on Patriots.

And Daniel, the story of the year in every sense of the word, as we said earlier in the broadcast, remains the COVID-19 pandemic and its crippling effect on the world, most importantly from a health standpoint, but also socially and economically. And I'd like to kick off our discussion on the COVID pandemic on that subject. Now, for the NFL, the challenges presented by this pandemic will be numerous, but there are a lot of financial ramifications as well for both the NFL and the players themselves, particularly the NFL salary cap, which could become quite compromised as early as 2021, mostly by a lack of revenue this season due largely in part to a lack of fan interaction.

For all teams, especially here in New England where the cap is monitored very closely, this could present some problems when approaching free agency, especially in terms of the potential contracts to be signed. Daniel, based on your assessment of some of the prognostications of doom and gloom that we've seen in the media on this subject, do you believe that the NFL is heading towards an unavoidable financial firestorm? You know, I just truthfully, I think it would be, you know, you'd be remiss if you didn't actually assume that was going to happen. I mean, just to so everyone understands the, you know, the finances behind football, of course everyone understands that the salary cap is dependent on the

revenue coming in. And again, it's just logical that the ticket gate that comes from these games across football is part of the reason the cap keep going up because tickets are charged a little bit more, obviously TV revenue. You can bring in a little bit more money. The guy like Adam Schefter, who's really the voice of football, you have to pay attention to what he's saying. He's saying that the cap stands to drop significantly by between 30 and 80 million for the year 2021. And that's assuming there are, this is, you know, again, under this assumption, no fans in the stands for this upcoming year.

Now, since Schefter said that was about maybe six weeks ago, we do have some, we'll say positive signs, or at least some signals that there will be fans at least in some stadiums, maybe not all of them and maybe a limited amount of seats, because we've already seen this past report. There'll be about at least these first few rows are going to be cordoned off and we'll see what happens beyond that. But just to know, worst case scenario, this is again, Schefter, that the highest levels of football, no fans equals a 30 to $80 million drop. Now, you know, functionally,

that's really never happened to lose that much in a cap in one year. And kind of the, the concerning thing is what happens for the following year, right? Is revenue going to go up at that point? Are you still kind of bearing the losses from from that season? So I think that's a real concern. The only real precedent that, you know, sports on a global landscape, we'll say in a domestic landscape, have dealt with. And I remember I'm sure you do from the 2020, sorry, 2012 NBA situation when they were trying to negotiate their CBA.

What they carved out is something called an amnesty provision. And it allowed teams just one free shot to get a guy off the books off the salary cap and just kind of a you know a mea culpa you get one guy you take him off the cap it was just an interesting creative solution the nba did because there was a lot of bad contracts that were handed out now obviously we're in a little bit of a different ballpark um because it's not anything the teams did wrong it's just kind of forcing their hands but you you have to imagine that the NFL and the NFLPA are going to have to come to some way to manage these caps.

You can't have all these players in the red. You can't have everybody financially hamstrung and not being able to spend on free agents. The Players Association just seemingly wouldn't let that happen. So, you know, it remains to be seen. But I think if you were a free agent this upcoming off season, you know, it's really poor timing because all of a sudden teams may be flushed with cash, ready to spend very big. They're just not going to have the money. So this conversation about will fans be in the stands? Will a percentage of fans be in the stands? That's going to impact really directly what teams have to spend in years to come. Absolutely. And again, great, great insight when it comes to the salary cap.

The Patriots would be one of those teams that you mentioned that were flush with cash looking to spend. The Patriots have a significant amount of money coming off of their cap when it comes to guaranteed contracts and expiring contracts that will no longer count toward their cap in 2021. They have a number of aging players that the Patriots may choose to move on from, meaning that next year in 2021, we might see an overhaul of the roster, knowing that a global pandemic that is beyond the control of any of the 32 NFL franchises,

really beyond the control of anyone when it comes to the world of professional sports, could end up dictating exactly how well the Patriots are able to navigate through this next offseason, which by all intents and purposes, folks, is going to be that either rebuild or slash reload that is so negatively thought of when it comes to Patriots fans. But it's necessary in order to be able to maintain some sort of continuity. So interesting, folks, keep a sharp eye on that. And Daniel, thank you for your insight when it comes to that. But that leads me quite nicely into my final question for you today before I let you go. And that is from your own words earlier today,

which I thought you put very eloquently, with each passing day, more testing positive for COVID-19. And with that, more have concerns about playing in a pandemic. And at this stage, sports cannot eliminate all of the risks. So it's a matter of who accepts that versus who will opt out. Daniel, from an NFL perspective, and to a lesser degree from an individual team perspective, what is the best way for all parties involved to legally navigate the troubled waters that lie ahead as an attempt to return to the field in just one month's time So, Mike, I appreciate the shout out to my Twitter feed. I'm at SportsLawLust on Twitter. And as Mike eloquently put it, I'm just trying to ask the questions that need to be asked.

And the way I see it, talk for better for worse is cheap. I mean, we can talk about investing millions into these restarts and, you know, not the NFL, but the NBA's million-dollar, you know, billion-dollar bubble, however much they're spending on it. But we all tend to forget, as much as we all would love to be optimistic, one test once upon a time brought down the entire sports landscape, and that was Rudy Gobert of the Utah Jazz. So everyone can talk about how here's the protocol.

One guy is going to drop out. You know, maybe just the players that were, you know, in contact with this player would drop out. But it remains to be seen what will actually happen if a COVID test happens during the course of the season. We've seen just in the past couple of days, big stars across sports, probably no bigger in football than Zeke Elliott, test positive. So does the whole running back room get quarantined?

Where does that end? And those are the type of unanswerable questions. So, Mike, to your specific point, where do I see sports going? And really to that tweet I kind of pointed out, and just kind of a breadcrumb to leave your listeners with, across sports there is being something called an opt-out, that players are being given the ability to not play in this season. We've seen it in Major League Baseball.

We've seen it in hockey. We've seen it in basketball. What that opt-out actually means in practice is a little bit different. In the NBA, you're not going to get paid, and that's because 90% of your salary has already been paid. So they're not inclined to really pay you unless you have a real high risk issue that a doctor tells you about in baseball. Just kind of an interesting thing to understand. If you're high risk,

you can get paid and your salary will, your contract will kind of move over to the next year. So if you were, you know, for you guys, I'm sure there's a ton of Red Sox fans, Mookie Betts, hypothetically, if he were to opt out of the season, he's a free agent. It's not like his contract freezes in place and he has to come back with the Dodgers. So when it comes to football, we've seen when other leagues zig, the NFL zags. So we can't just assume that the opt-outs will be treated the same way. And I kind of pointed out there is a world and maybe the NFL chooses to go this route where if you decide to opt out of the season, maybe you shouldn't become a free agent.

Maybe you should be bound to your contract for that particular year. And just the interesting part, I mean, there's no again, there's no obviously clear cut answers to this. But all of the money that the Patriots have invested in scouring the salary cap, managing the player contracts very closely, managing free agent contracts very closely. In this kind of world where we don't know who's going to be a free agent, we don't know who's opting out, we don't know who's going to get hit with COVID, you kind of have to throw all these plans out the window. So just kind of important to note, the NFL, I'm sure they're going to allow players opt-outs, but this criteria of whether you're high risk, baseball is allowing you to opt out. If you

cohabitate, if you live with someone that's high risk, the NBA is not allowing that. So, you know, because of baseball kind of had this interesting carve out for cohabitation, all of a sudden the, the, you know, whose wife is pregnant and whose wife is not pregnant. That's a question that for whatever reason is now relevant in baseball circles. So, you know, it's, it's not the, the rosiest outlook for football, but just important to know that the leagues that are dealing with this right now have all these different answers. And for NFL fans, I think there's a benefit to sitting in this proverbial catbird seat and seeing how the leagues are shaking out and how the leagues are doing this.

And then the NFL obviously has the luxury of starting a little bit later. So, you know, of the leagues, I'd rather be in the NFL spot, obviously, but really it's not an advantageous position to be in, even in that catbird seat. Absolutely. And again, insight that only you can provide. Learning from sitting back and observation, I think is the best way for me to put that. I think may end up benefiting the NFL a little bit, but I think you put it very eloquently. There is a fine line between knowing what you want to do and putting the parameters in place to actually being able to do it and then actually being able to execute it when it comes to practicality. That really is a fine line and it's a very difficult line to walk.

The NFL faces a lot of challenges. So do all the other major sports leagues throughout the world. And again, I keep saying here on Locked On Patriots, we live in interesting times. This has been an interesting year. It's about to get more exciting for sports fans because your sports are about to come back, folks. But it doesn't mean that it's not going to still be a challenging time and that there are still not hurdles that need to be overcome.

And I think we're seeing that on a daily basis. And unfortunately, I think that will only continue until we're able to really get a stranglehold on the COVID-19 virus, on the pandemic itself, and be able to eradicate it, hopefully, you know, sooner rather than later. But I still think we're a little ways away from that. Daniel, what can I say? I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to enlighten our listeners here on Locked on Patriots, not just when it comes to the COVID-19 pandemic and the global aspect, but also taking the time to drill down deep and to give us a little more insight on some of the Patriots legal issues.

We would love to have you back here on the Lockdown Patriots podcast soon. Maybe we'll be able to come back and talk exclusively about some of the spy gate and deflate gate issues that have plagued us in the past. And we can give a little a little heads up to our fan base on that one. Before we did go today, though, I just wanted to take a moment to give a shout out to our man Isaac, who did help to facilitate the communication lines here so I could get this great man on my podcast. Isaac, thank you very much.

I know right now you got to Tampa Bay on your mind, but I still think there's a little bit of Patriot Blue in your bloodstream. But all kidding aside, Isaac, thank you so much. Daniel, you mentioned your Twitter feed earlier. Absolute phenomenal stuff, folks. I'm going to give you the floor to close it out here. Please let our listeners know where they can find you, where they can always listen to your great work and absorb your wisdom and

counsel pun intended folks. When it comes to the great work that you do in the sports legal world. Thank you very much, Mike. Shout out to Isaac as well for the super broker. He's definitely got a, I owe him at least something for setting us up, Mike. But as for myself, I try to just play it down the middle.

If my objective opinion helps anyone solve any arguments, it would be my pleasure. My podcast is Conduct Detrimental. We cover all things sports law, not just football, of course. We hit be my pleasure. My podcast is Conduct Detrimental. We cover all things sports law, not just football, of course. We hit all the sports. And we're at Twitter, on Instagram, at Condetrimental, and myself. Again, my name is Daniel Lust, but on Twitter, Instagram, I am SportsLawLust, at SportsLawLust. My DMs are always open. You can email me or message me with any questions you might have. Well, like they say, the court is adjourned today,

counselor here on Locked On Patriots. All kidding aside, I thank you for lending your wisdom and counsel. It was a blast. We look forward to having you back. You and yours stay safe, stay well. And thank you again. Have a great weekend, Daniel. Thank you, Mike. You too. And so Patriots fans, we put a bow on the short week that was here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. And while this week might have featured a few less episodes than you're used to,

we still covered a lot of pressing topics here on the pod, including roster projections, practice squad strategy, and closing it all up today with the legal wisdom and counsel of sports attorney Daniel Lust. And next week here on the pod, it won't be any less exciting. Some great guests lined up and some awesome topics to tantalize your Patriots fix as we usher in the month of July. And by the end of that month of July, your New England Patriots will have taken the practice fields for the first time.

And here on Locked On Patriots, we will have you covered every step of the way. So to make sure that you do not miss a single episode of Locked On Patriots, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, follow us on Spotify, and don't forget that you can always listen to Locked On Patriots right on your very own smart device. How do you do so? Very simple. Just ask it to play the latest episode of Locked On Patriots. And if you've enjoyed today's podcast, now tell your smart device to play the latest episode of Locked On Fantasy Football.

Once again, folks, my name is Mike DeBate. I thank renowned attorney Daniel Lust for his time, his insight, and his appearance today. But most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for staying locked in to Locked On Patriots. Stay safe, stay well, be the change you wish to see in the world, and have a great weekend, everyone.