Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Locked On Patriots February 13, 2019 - Safeties with Michael Kist

Episode Date: February 13, 2019

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Hey there everybody, welcome into a very special Locked On Patriots event. And I know I say every episode is very special and I use these big words to say how great these shows are going to be. But this is truly going to be a very, very, very good episode. We're going to talk safeties with perhaps the premier person to do that with. As I said, look, we're going to talk safeties with perhaps the premier person to do that with. As I said, look, we're going to start getting into draft season. But before we do that, though, a reminder, follow me on Twitter, at Mark Schofield.

Check out the work at places like InsideThePylon.com, Pro Football Weekly, The Score, Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Big Blue View, part of the SB Nation family of websites, friends, as I've said. If there's an outlet cover in the game of football, chances are I am doing some work for them. And another place that I do some work that, yes,

I've talked about before is Bleeding Green Nation. I am just a small part of the QB Scow Show, a podcast over there that dives into all things quarterbacks. But the bigger part of that show, the man behind the dream, is the one and only Michael J. Kist, who joins us right now. You can follow him on Twitter at MichaelKistNFL. Michael, my good man, how are you, sir? I am doing fantastic, and it's a pleasure to be able to speak with you so much, especially during this time of the NFL draft,

where we need sane takes and some sanity to the entire part of the process. That's why I love talking with you. I know we're not going to get too crazy with some wild takes i'm not going to end up on a take tuesday is that is that the show we we still we do take thursday now take thursday yeah we do take thursday now and i gotta get you back off one of those because maybe a little bit closer to say draft time when the takes are really going nutty and people are talking about maybe you know kyler murray first overall oh wait we're already there or maybe people are talking about i don't know josh rosen being out of the league oh we're already there too so i mean maybe it's time for a take thursday show but

we're not going to do that we're going to do some safety stuff because this is a professional podcast and we are professional sports writers and cover we are professionals here we're going to talk safeties and i think the best way to frame the conversation first is what traits does michael kiss to look for when evaluating the safety position yeah when i go through my grading system there's a number of factors that i ultimately boil down into a final number grade so i do have a numeric scoring system that allows me to kind of separate the stacks for me. And also there's a part in there that's kind of built in and I'm thinking about expanding it that looks into versatility and we can talk about that. But a lot of the main traits, the athletic score

I get from athletic testing, that's a big one. There's mental processing. There's play strength for the safety position is extremely valuable if you're going to be a box safety or if you're going to be near the line of scrimmage a lot. Man coverage is something that I scored, something that you need. Can you carry tight ends? Can you carry running backs if you're a box safety? Can you cover guys from the slot? Can you stick with guys on the outside? Do they have experience in their background as a cornerback as some of these safeties do, which I highly value.

Ball skills. When the ball is in the air, how are they at the catch point? Are they getting a lot of ball production? Are they getting the interceptions they can get? Can they track, locate? Can they make those pass breakups based on how they're able to locate that ball, their timing with their hands, and just their natural ball skills as well? Can they press guys? What about their open field tackling that's a big one for me too okay you need your safeties to tackle you're the last line of defense i don't care if you're a free roaming cover three safety that's just there to break up stuff and prevent you know the deep ball you're going to be asked to run fill occasionally and

you're going to have to be able to take care of that assignment also obviously if you're going to be a center fielder you're going to need the requisite range to be able to do that can you get from hash to sideline or is it only hash to you know top of the numbers whatever the case may be that's going to factor in where i'm comfortable putting you at are you a single high safety are you a two high safety slash box safety are you a nickel guy well what what's the designation there and also you know can you bring anything with the blitz you know how do you look like as a blitzer can you you know can you corner can you deal with that contact are you able to get home to the quarterback if i do send you and one of the designations that i put on these when i do my big board grades is i end up with i don't just list

them as a safety. For instance, there are a couple of guys in here that we'll talk about that get a designation that's up to three different positions that could be free safety, strong safety, and nickel. That's a highly versatile player and it's something that I know that the Patriots value. So Michael, that is quite the exhaustive list here. And that led you to what is, I think for you, a preliminary, a preliminary top five safeties in this class. Not going to hold you to it. Not set in stone. This isn't sort of chiseled to be put on Mount Olympus or anything like that.

But the first guy in your top rankings, and this is a piece that you put over at Bleeding Green Nation. I'll tweet that out when this show goes live. You start with range, check. Physicality, check. Competitive toughness, check toughness check blank this player will fill in the blank in a second has everything you want from a center fielder and more michael drum roll who is that player he is nasir adderley from delaware he got a first round grade for me

it's a late first but he's got the only first round grade from safeties which might surprise you given the player that we'll talk about next. But Nasir Adderley from Delaware playing for the Blue Hens, you put his tape on and I do this thing sometimes where I don't necessarily want to know the number of the player that I'm looking for. I want them to pop on tape. Nasir Adderley has top 10 film of anybody in this class. I'll put my name on that right now because you go through his games

and he from a single high alignment from a from a deep alignment is making plays all over the place and one of the things i talked about competitive toughness the first game i watched was against north dakota state and they were down at one point 38 to nothing and adderley is just playing his tail off. He was all over the field. And look, you can put Nasir Adderley into YouTube or into Twitter and look for his videos. He's got circus catch ball skills, man. He has got really nice hands, fantastic body control. His hips are really fluid. He can work the route combinations and get into position. He's never really caught out. So I thought he had an up and down week at the Senior Bowl, doing things that we knew he was going to struggle with. He wasn't asked to play a lot of man coverage at Delaware.

He was playing a lot of off safety. So we knew he was going to struggle a little bit. Those drills are positioned to be in favor of the offense anyway. But when you look at his tape, it's literally everything you want a center fielder to be Adderley is my safety one I don't think that's going to change no matter what the testing is at the combine you mentioned the senior bowl does it concern you that you know there were times when he seemed you know to struggle a bit down in mobile are you worried about a level of competition issue with him or do you think that look you plug this guy in anywhere he's going to be fine i think you can plug him anywhere and he's

going to be fine i mean that some of the issues that i saw was just the fact that he's not real comfortable in man coverage yet and he's not going to be asked to do a whole lot of that if he's going to be a center fielder and i feel like with the right coaching that stuff is easily cleaned up and it's not an athletic limitation which would worry me because he's like i said he's got really fluid hips and whatnot if you can clean just a little bit just a little bit of that footwork up and be more confident in it and as that will come with experience then i don't have any issues with what he can become as a player i think the roof is the ceiling with him now the next player is probably a name that people will recognize. You've got the small school guy, the Delaware Blue Hand in Adderley, and now you've got

the Bama guy, the blue chip guy in Thompson. What are your thoughts on him? Yeah, Deontay Thompson, I gave him a second round grade. And there is a big divide right now from the way that some circles in the draft community talk about Deontay Thompson and how some circles in the NFL media and I believe how some teams in the NFL view Thompson I mean it's very notable that a guy like Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks too would leave Deontay Thompson out of the first round in their mock drafts while other people are talking about him as a top five lock and I know there are people in the draft community that I respect that i've been talking with throughout the process because i've gone back on dionte and it's not just a reaction the second round grade is not just a reaction on some of the mental errors that he had in the in the playoff

games those high profile games that can definitely skew your evaluation i've gone back and watched maybe like 400 snaps i feel very confident my evaluation of him i don't think his range is what some people make it out to be. I think it's good, and I think he's got very good short area burst. I don't think he's the big hitter that some people make him out to be. I think he's a sloppy tackler. I don't like his form. I think he's going to get bounced off of a lot at the next level.

Like I mentioned up top, I need my safeties to fill and tackle, and I think that's going to be a struggle for him. His big hits come when he has the ability to build up that speed and get some butt behind him, get some charge behind him. That's when those come. I don't think he's a naturally big hitter, and I don't think he wraps up particularly well. Now, what he does do well, I think he's got fantastic anticipation,

and I think he's got fantastic ball skills. And that's why I have a second-round grade on him still. I think he's a really smart player despite some of the mental errors i do like the way that he comes and attacks downhill i think he needs to be more cognizant of threats coming deep that may be coming over top so there's some polish required in that area overall i think he's a very good player if he wasn't a player that i liked i wouldn't have a second round grade on him but right now i think as people come back to his tape and there are people doing this now that I respect going back to his tape, and they're starting to fall off the first round hype train

that has been throughout the season, because his first three games were very, very good. I think you'll see people start to calm down on his draft stock as we go throughout this process. And I'm very interested in how he shows up at the combine. If he comes in and he's enlisted at 196, I don't think he's 196. If he comes in at 185, what does that say? If he doesn't run in the low four fives,

let's say he runs in the high four fives or the four six, what does that say about his range? That's kind of where I expect him to be. So the combine is going to be big for him. And if he performs well, and I hope he does, it'll help me kind of confirm and check some of those boxes for him. Mark Schofield, Michael Kiss, talking some safeties here on this Wednesday installment of the Locked On Patriots podcast.

We're going to hit the pause button for a second, let you hear from our great sponsors on the other side. We're going to start off with the player that I'm most excited to hear Michael's thoughts on. That's next here at Locked On Patriots. Mark Schofield back with you now with Michael Kist here on this Wednesday installment of Locked on Patriots and working off Michael's top five safeties here. This is the player we're going to talk about.

This was his number three, again, preliminary ranking. This is how he wraps it up. The question is, how much are you willing to invest on a gamble? This player, again with a blank, has a cathedral ceiling, but is he religious? Michael, I love that line. I love that language. Fantastic right in there.

Talk to me about Darnell Savage because in contrast to Adderley, this kid had a huge weak automobile. I love him. I think Belichick might love him. They liked the Maryland guys in the past, obviously JC Jackson. What can you tell us about Savage? Yeah, out of my top five guys, there's two guys that have the designation that can do free safety, strong safety, and nickel. And Darnell Savage Jr.

is one of those guys. Now, let me put a qualifier on that. I do not want him playing center field right away in his career. I'm just saying that he has the range and the ability to do so as he figures things out from a mental processing standpoint because right now savage is a dog in a meat house wants to make the right now play wants to get downhill and punish people so right now he's in a nickel robber type role at the beginning of his career also going to be a special teams demon i think it's going to be absolutely lights out on special teams so you could check a bunch of boxes there for him that would make me believe that the Patriots would be really interested in in him so he's got the range I mean he is a physical tackler with really good form really good angles there's some mental

slip-ups there in his tape he likes to get he likes to peek in the backfield he'll get caught on play action but there are very small things that I think he can he can clean up i call them an uber competitive ball of energy he's just a guy that injects just this feeling in your defense this guy this guy is going to run around with his hair on fire and make plays and he's got the athleticism to do it and you know being that reliable as a tackler helps me make up for some of the mental things there so part of my, I kind of baked in that eventual versatility that I see him having later on his career. I mean, he might not be a center fielder to two, three years in his career, but I think he can get some light work there right away. And I just absolutely love what he brings from an athletic and a physical standpoint. He's a

really doggone good player gigantic ceiling the question is again how much of a risk are you going to take on a gamble but Savage is one that I will pound the table for to sort of follow up on that and the way you describe him you know a name that I come back to is a guy that we just saw get you know 23 stitches in his right arm we saw him on the sidelines with that arm in an air cast and that that's Patrick Chun. Do you think that if New England is sort of concerned about Chun, worried about him either getting back or maybe him, you know, potentially retiring and moving on from Chun, that he could be a potential guy to replace him?

Yeah, I think he does a lot of the things that Chun does well. The same can kind of translate to Savage. So I think he'd be a fantastic replacement. And even if Chun still sticks around for another year, you're talking about Savage being under Chung and being able to learn from him. I know that whole learn from him thing doesn't always equate, but that would be a fantastic coaching situation and the players to learn from around him for Savage

and would also give him some time to develop his game before he's thrown into the fire. I still think he can start right away, but yeah, I do think that's great. And I also think he can give you some significant nickel reps too while you have both of them on the field. And, you know, you go against 12 personnel, what you're seeing a lot, somebody like the Jacksonville Jaguars did this. They drafted Ronnie Harrison because the Jaguars really struggled

with 12 personnel the previous year. Well, they said, okay, we're not going to run our base package, but we are going to run this big package with three safeties. We're going to have Ronnie Harrison in there who can run and chase and pursue ball carriers, but can also carry tight ends up the seam. And I think Savage gives you that versatility on defense as well. Somebody that you had sort of similar issues with, your fourth-ranked safety again, preliminarily,

is Chauncey Gardner Johnson from Florida seemed like you had some issues with his tackling and some blemishes from him on tape but what can you tell us about him yeah he is the second guy that I have on my big board here in the top five for safeties that has the free safety strong safety nickel designation now you really have to dig into the tape for Chauncey Gardner Johnson to find the free safety reps. Most of them are from 2017 and they still aren't that prevalent. But when he does have those reps and you can find those, you can see the range and you can be comfortable with projecting him to that role. I really do like him as a strong safety nickel type early on in his career, just like Savage. Some of the issues with his tackling were interesting. I think

he cleaned a lot of them up in the 2018 tape, but the 2017 tape was really, really concerning from a tackling perspective. A lot of lunging, a lot of misses that shouldn't have been there, a lot of over-pursuing. But what I'd like to see is even if I have a concern about a player in that aspect of his game, I saw tangible improvement from year to year, which gives me the feeling that he's very coachable, very cognizant of those issues, and is able to improve on them, which gives me faith that he's going to be able to improve on them further. Now, as far as a guy, again, with his versatility, if I'm giving him those three designations, that means that I feel comfortable with him

playing center field and covering a wide swath of area as a deep safety. But I'm also comfortable with putting him in the nickel against big slots and some shiftier guys too. And I'm also comfortable with him covering running backs and tight ends. And I like his ability to fly around. I like his athletic profile.

I think he's a guy that can bring immediate starter value to any football team. Yeah, you mentioned his athletic profile. And watching him on tape, what sort of stands out from Gardner Johnson in terms of that athletic ability? He's explosive. I mean, once he clicks and clacks, he is getting downhill and he's getting on you. And that's the intriguing part about him. In 2017, you would see him close. You're like, oh, that's pretty.

But then there was some sloppiness, some over pursuing, like I mentioned. But his ability, that short area explosion, you really want that in underneath zone defender that can go close those immediate windows when the ball comes out. And I think that's a very attractive part of his game. Now, Michael, we just talked about two sort of scheme diverse guys, those two guys that get that three safety designation from you. Now we're going to talk about the last player in your top five, a guy that might seem, at least from the way I'm reading your write-up of him, a bit more scheme limited, and that's Taylor Rapp from Washington.

That Washington secondary had some players in it over the past couple of seasons. What can you tell us about Rapp? Yeah, he's got one designation. He is a strong safety. He is box, box, box all day. I don't want him traveling with slock eyes and being like an overhang defender in that manner. I'm okay with him covering tight ends. I'm a little concerned about his ball skills. But if you want someone that's just going to be a dog hanging around the box and someone with fantastic, I'm talking fantastic, short area burst and the ability to pursue plays and make plays on the other side of formations

coming flat down the line, then Taylor Rapp from Washington is your guy. A 6'2", again, limited guy, but what he's going to bring to you around that area is some serious physicality, another guy that can really work well to combat 12 personnel sets. I just don't trust him outside of that. I don't think he can play center field. I don't think he can cover shift your slot guys. But again, we're focused on what he can do. He can cover running backs.

He can cover tight ends. He can get in the box, sniff around the run. He's really aggressive, really instinctive, knows what he's doing from an assignment perspective. So the mental part is there for him as well. I think he's a solid starter when he steps into the league and can start day one. Listeners to the Locked on Patriots podcast are going to love you here and that, you know, love hearing you say that, that what he can do stuff because we talk about that a ton. Michael, is there anything that he can do, whether it's at Indy or Pro Day or anywhere

else that would make you more expansive in terms of how you view his skill set? Are you pretty much locked in? Look, he's a box guy the box guy always he can improve his score for me and give me a little more comfortable with how i can project him into a robber role and maybe some reps at single high every now and then where he's not really instinctive but i'm also worried about his athleticism what i really want to see from him is I think he's a linear athlete. And what I mean by that is when I watch him, there is some stiffness in his hips. And that's why I don't feel comfortable projecting him to a nickel rule, because I do believe there's some change of direction issues there. I mean, if he comes out and he burns in the three cone, I might have to go back to the tape and look at his hips and really kind of analyze those reps to

see maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I can project him further out. So there's always that cross-check part of it. But I get the concern with him is that he's a linear athlete and change of direction is always going to be a problem for him. So I'm going to try to limit his exposure to the reps where he can get beaten that way by keeping him closer to the box and giving him the matchups with tight ends and running backs. Let's face it, if he burns in the three cone, he can just plug him into the New England Patriots because we all know that Belichick meme of him putting down the binoculars and taking some notes when he sees that blazing three cone.

We're going to hit the pause button again, Michael. Pay some bills, all that fun stuff. On the other side, we're going to talk about some other guys in this class, maybe some names that weren't in your top five, but Patriots fans might want to know as well as some questioners from the listeners. That's ahead on this Wednesday installment of Locked on Patriots. Mark Schofield, Michael Kist back with you here on this Wednesday installment of the Locked on Patriots podcast.

Friends, remember, Valentine's Day is tomorrow. So if you haven't checked those boxes, hit the pause button. You can come back to the show, but make sure you get Valentine's Day covered because I don't want listeners sending me emails or DMs on Twitter or in the Lockdown Patriots Slack channel saying, look, I was too busy listening to your show to take care of Valentine's Day. Now I'm in the doghouse. No, I've been talking to you about places like Enclosed, our great friends over at Enclosed Lingerie.com, as well as other places to try to get ahead of the game for you.

I've been telling you, don't drop the ball. You got one more day now. So go out there and get that done. Then you kick them back and listen to Michael and I as we close out this show. Michael, the way to do that, let's do this. Who are some of the other guys that didn't make your top five, but you think might fit, find a home, whether it's New England or elsewhere? I like Virginia Juan Thornhill. He's a free safety for them.

He has a ton of ball production. He's got eight interceptions last year. He also has some versatility where he has played cornerback in his past. So I like his ability to also play nickel as well. So that's a player that you're probably going to be interested. He just missed out on the main group, and I think some testing would be good for him. I think he's got the range to be a center fielder. We're going to see at the combine if that holds up.

I kind of baked that in already, but he can definitely help himself at the combine. The other one who was a really, really smart player, but I have some questions about his athleticism, not unlike a former teammate of his, is Iowa's Amani Hooker. He's the Big Ten defensive back of the year. Just a really intelligent player. And I don't want to get Desmond King,

but I don't feel like I got Desmond King on the first go around because I had a second round grade on him and somehow he fell to the fifth round. But King had good testing outside of some long speed issues with the 40 yard dash. I expect the same thing for Hooker. There are some concerns with athleticism. But if you like smart defensive backs, and I do, then Amani Hooker is a really good piece. And one guy that I missed out on this piece, I actually think I did him the day after, is a guy that's super fun.

And I think you'll love watching his tape. Safety tape can be kind of boring every now and then because they're not always doing a whole lot, especially if they're playing, you know, way deep 20 yards back off the ball. But this kid, Malik Gant out of Marshall, I had so much fun watching his tape because they blitz him.

They use him to feel really hard in the run game. They play him in a lot of off-man coverage but let me tell you he's got more chip paint than nascar when he is an off man he's playing that catch technique and he is getting on you he is physical he's probably gonna get flagged a whole lot at the next level so he figures out how to be a little more subtle with that contact there but we're talking about a guy who is a fantastic tackler who can play man coverage who can fill and i think he's going to score really well in some of the explosion drills with the jumps and everything at the nfl combine is going to see his name uh mentioned i know pro football focus loves his game that actually what made me uh check him out so check out malik gant

out of marshall he's a fun one more chipped paint than nascar kissed better than he covered that paul zimmer in title flow and language he airs a football writer fantastic stuff we got some questions from the locked on patriots listeners via the locked on patriots slack channel again if you'd like an invite hit me up on twitter at mark scofield or mark.scofield that inside the pylon.com first one comes to us from calvin s who are some mid-round targets for the patriots to draft in the early to mid-second the early to mid-second round? Early to mid-second round.

So let's talk about some of the guys that we were looking at versatility-wise. I think it's the guys that we talked about with those three designations, that free safety, strong safety, nickel package that you get that's very, very rare. And I don't give to a lot of people. The only two that I've given it to Darnell Savage Jr. from Maryland I think is an excellent second round prospect I have a second round grade from him I think it's around a mid second round can help himself with some testing and then Chauncey Gardner Johnson because he's shown that he can play center field he's shown that he can play

strong safety he's shown that he can cover slot wide receivers those are my two favorites in that area if you're looking for versatility, which we talked about already a bunch with the Patriots, that they really like that. Smart player there. If you want to go wild card, then I'll throw in Amani Hooker and Juan Thornhill. So a couple guys right there.

Those are the four guys that I would really be looking at in the middle to late second round, around where the Patriots are picking. But who knows? It's the Patriots. They can go way off the grid with this. Jordan Richards obviously comes to mind. A guy that people had as safety 15

in that class. He comes off the board in the second round. I've already joked, who's Vanderbilt's third string center? That's who it's going to be. Next question. We're going to find a guy from the South Dakota School of Mining and Technology. Yeah. Oh man, he's a fantastic rangy type player that we loved on tape. Speaking of rangy players, next question find a guy from the south dakota school of mining and technology yeah yeah oh man he's a fantastic rangy type player that we loved on tape so speaking of rangy players our other

question comes to us from john lamaracus and it reads as follows i freaking love kissed who is this year's jesse bates i.e a rangy free safety we can get in the second or third like we should have done last year rangy free safety i mean i I mean, I was really high on Jesse Bates. I don't know if that player really existed. I wouldn't make a correlation between Jesse Bates and Nasir Adderley being really close. Or if Adderley were to fall, I mean, you would still have to trade up in the second, I think, to get him. But I don't think there's a guy like that.

I mean, two guys that I really valued in last year's draft that were underdrafted, in my opinion, were Jesse Bates, who eventually went to Cincinnati and had a really good year, justin reed who went to the houston texans who had a fantastic year for them i had near first round grades on both of those guys i don't necessarily see that in this in this class there's a very big earth of just like free safety only rangy types in this class and i'm going to continue to look for him so to answer your question hope utterly falls and then maybe start to look towards someone like uh if deontay thompson his fall is bigger than we expect he might be there juan thornhill was my

other free safety but other than that you might have to project the guy like a marquise blair out of utah maybe in the third round who who's got some enticing athleticism, but maybe some stiffness, but also has experience as a single high safety. Fantastic stuff, Mike. Before we wrap up, please let everybody know where they can find your work, where to check you out, and all that good stuff that you've got going on over at Bleeding Green Nation. At Michael Kist NFL, that's K-I-S-Tt i am the host of the kist and solek show which we do on bgn radio you can find them at a bgn underscore radio uh right now for bleedinggreennation.com i just recently put up my top five interior defensive linemen obviously that is going to

change i just did a several on mock for the eagles where both me and solek picked jeffrey simmons so oh how's that working out for you? It's not working out great. It's being reported that he may have torn his ACL. So we might have to take a mulligan on that, but that's what we're, we're, we're working on the fallout from that over at bleeding green nation.com.

Fantastic stuff. Michael, everybody, please do check out Michael's work. Fantastic stuff. Not just Eagles based across the board. You heard it today. Fantastic football mind.

And of course the flow and language of things like cathedrals and ceilings and chipped paint and NASCAR. I mean, that's just fantastic stuff that makes it worth your while. That will do it for today's show. I will be back tomorrow. We have Brad Kelly. He's going to talk some wide receivers and tight ends. He was a listener request from the Draft Network and some other places.

So we're going to get some stuff with him. That's tomorrow. Until then, keep it locked right here to me, Mark Schofield. And locked on, Patreons.