Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Locked On Patriots March 1, 2018 - Timeline Takes Combine Thursday

Episode Date: March 1, 2018

Mark Schofield chats OT arm length, QB hand size, "will versus should" and teases the Inside the Pylon Draft Guide.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Good morning and welcome into Lockdown Patriots for Thursday, March 1st, 2018. Mark Schofield here, the big chair. Reminder to follow my work on Twitter at Mark Schofield. Follow the work over at InsideThePylon.com where I'm one of the head writers. Also a reminder that I was the quarterback scout over at Blue Ridge Report this year for the NFL 1000 Project. And quarterbacks will be a focus of a lot of what we do this offseason here at Locked On Patriots, with the Patriots perhaps in a market for their next quarterback.

Today being Thursday at the Combine, we're going to do a Timeline Takes Combine edition. Some takes coming out of Indianapolis, some measurements coming out of Indianapolis with my thoughts of what to look for, what not to look for. We're going to wrap it up with a discussion about will versus should. It's something I've intimated at here on the podcast, something I've talked about over at a lot of different places, but it's something that we should also keep in mind as we start talking about prospects, particularly quarterbacks, and where they might end up in this draft. But I want to start with a little bit of promotional news. As I mentioned at the outset, I'm one of the lead writers over at InsideThePylon.com, and I want to talk for a moment about the InsideThePylon.com draft guide. It's something that we are putting together now for the second year in a row. Last year, the Inside the Pylon draft guide, we had our top 100. We also had some positional boards, some positional discussions,

and it was well-received. It was written up by Peter King in an edition of Monday Morning Quarterback. It was also purchased by some NFL teams, which we were very proud to see. Always nice when the league itself respects your work enough to get it into their wallrooms as they lead into draft day and as they stack their boards. But this year, we kicked things up a notch. We got a team of over 50 people working on the InsideThePylon.com draft guide. I want to throw out some numbers for you as well.

What we've got to date, and this is on March 31st, these numbers will change, but we have 737 player evaluation reports, 450 players evaluated. We have built in a process that is modeled after what NFL teams do. Because we are led by a former NFL scout, Dan Hattman, who is leading the charge on this process.

Dan Hattman, a former NFL scout with the Eagles, with the Giants. And we've modeled our process around what NFL teams do. We have our positional scouts, more than one at each position group. For example, I am one of three quarterback scouts. Every player that gets a report gets a cross check on him. So we get an extra set of eyes, sometimes two extra sets of eyes that we debate these guys. For example, the Josh Allen debate is still raging on at this moment over at InsideThePylon.com where we're trying to figure out

like many are, what exactly to do with the Wyoming quarterback. So it's a very, very good product that we'll put together. We're really excited about it. In the coming days, I'm going to have a promo code for all the Locked On Patriots listeners if they want to get a nice little discount on their copy

of the 2018 InsideThePylon.com draft guide. You can also get your hands on last year's if you want to see what that's all about. We've got that at a discounted rate as well. I'm not kidding when I say NFL teams got their hands on this. So if you're interested in the draft, if you want to see some of the names

that the Patriots might be interested in, what we thought of those players and their college tape, get your hands on the InsideThePylon.com draft guide. Again, I'll have more on that along with a promotional code for that as well. But now it's time to talk combine it's time to talk measurements because we are full on now into the underwear olympics that is the nfl scouting combine and measurements bandied about yesterday for the running backs and offensive linemen. Those came out Wednesday. I want to talk for a second about how to view sort of these measurements that come in.

I want to talk to it a little bit more in a second when we get to the quarterbacks. As you all know, that's my first love. But when we look at measurements, height, weight, arm length, hand size, these are all sort of threshold type things. You know, people, different evaluators, different teams might have different sort of thresholds. For example, the Kansas City Chiefs, you can look at how they view offensive linemen. They really value length at the offensive line. You know, you look at the offensive tackles in particular. How they've drafted at that position.

You know, they really sort of want longer guys on the edges. Now, the Patriots might be in on an offensive lineman this year. We've talked about some potential prospects. And for most teams, when they look at offensive line and they look at, you know, sort of length from offensive lineman, what the Patriots might be looking for. You know, I think the sort of, you know, generic, sort of generic arm length that they're looking for is, you look to be at 33 inches. Anything under that, teams start to get wary. Teams start to think, oh, maybe we need to kick this guy inside

because you want sort of length on the edges. Arm length can be a key in getting leverage as well, and it allows you to sort of get into these edge rushers quickly. Get length and leverage on them. And so I think if you look at some of the guys that were measured yesterday. That we've been talking about. As potential offensive tackle picks for the Patriots. If they decide to go tackle.

And a guy that we've talked about, Carter Williams, from the University of Texas, comes in right at 33. So you might be a little bit wary about that. Orlando Brown, we talked about him yesterday, and that's a big number, 35. That's a big, big boy. Winspan of 85 and 1 eighths inches. I mean, that's a large, large human being.

And so I think Orlando Brown, just on size alone, has kind of made himself some money. Alex Kappa comes in under 33 inches. 32 and 5 eighths of an inch. And I know we talked about it briefly yesterday, but that has raised some concerns about can he play on the outside? You know, also measures in at 6'5 and a half. Actually, 6'5 and 6'8, excuse me.

3'05. So now the concern becomes can he play on the outside or will he get kicked inside the guard? Does that make more sense for him? A player I've talked about a lot, Isaiah Wynn, 33 and 3 eighths. I know he's been talked about as a guard convert, but he still has the length, I think, to play on the outside. Billy Price, a center that's been talked about a little bit for New England, 6'3 and 6 eighths, 305, 32 inches. So yeah, he's probably sticking on the inside, probably sticking at the center spot.

Colton Miller, UCLA, 6'8 and 5'8 of an inch, 34 inches. So yeah, he's got the weight span to play outside. Quinton Nelson, he measured in with above 33-inch arms. He's been talked about as a guy that might get kicked to the outside, that he could play left tackle in the NFL. So that's interesting, some of the measurements coming out of Indianapolis. But now let's talk about something super fun, and that's QB hand sizes because it sort of gets joked about each year during the draft during the combine you know how much does quarterback hand size

really matter and again it's an issue of threshold for quarterbacks you know people have sort of looked at nine inches to be sort of the magic number, the threshold that quarterbacks need to hit, you know, if they're going to be successful. Now, you know, QB hand size, it's one of those things similar to mechanics. It doesn't matter until it matters. You know, and I think a prime example of it mattering is when you look at a quarterback sort of struggle in conditions, in weather. A guy whose hand size I'm actually curious to see is Logan Woodside, who's had some size concerns.

Is his hand size an issue? Because you watch him on tape. You watch him this year against Central Michigan, I believe was the game. Pouring rain, driving rain. And he's shot put in the football. It looks like he really can't grip it. He's more pushing it rather than throwing it. So I'm curious to see his hand size.

Again, it's a threshold thing. If he comes in and he tops the nine, then okay, maybe we're okay there. But when we get into that sub nine, not a lot of quarterbacks that you can point to having success in the NFL in that sub nine range. And some of the hand sizes so far have been pretty good. Obviously, Josh Allen, 10 and 1 eighths inch hands. Look, Josh Allen is going to check the size boxes. There's no question about that. Comes in at 6'4 and 7 eighths inch hands. Look, Josh Allen is going to check the size boxes. There's no question about that.

Comes in at 6'4 and 7 eighths, 237. 33 and 1 quarter inch arms. So, hey, forget Lamar moving to wide receiver. Let's move Josh Allen, get some weight on that frame, move him to left tackle. How about that? Obviously, I'm kidding. But all the quarterbacks so far that have measured

have topped that 9-inch number. The only other 10 we've seen, Tanner Lee from Nebraska. But the other guys, look, the smallest we've seen come in, Mason Rudolph, 9 1⁄8 of an inch. But again, it's a threshold, and it's that 9-inch number. Jared Goff had 9-inch even. People were worried about Goff's hand size. He hit that magical nine-inch number. Jared Goff had nine-inch even. People were worried about Goff's hand size. He hit that magical nine-inch number.

The other sort of threshold than his height. I have a different view on it than some. For example, Hugh Jackson looks at 6'2". He wants to see 6'2". That was the question about Mitchell Trubisky. If they were going to pick Mitchell Trubisky, would he hit that 6'2 number? And he did.

I look at it more as a six-foot number. If he can hit six feet, you could be a functional NFL quarterback in the right offensive system. You might have to do a better job at getting throwing lanes, at finding those throwing lanes. But look, the one that people worried about, well, there were two actually, but one was Baker Mayfield. Baker Mayfield, you know, is he going to be tall enough?

Is he going to be big enough? He's going to be big enough. Can he see over offensive linemen? Well, as he pointed out, he was playing behind Orlando Brown, who, let's revisit, 6'7 and 7'8, and he found some throwing lanes behind him. What did Baker Mayfield measure in at? Six feet even, 5-eighths of an inch. He actually grew since the Senior Bowl.

But he topped that magical six-foot number. Another one that people were looking at, Lamar Jackson. Would he be as Bill Pullen has bandied about? Is he tall enough to play quarterback? Comes in at 6'2 and 2 eighths. So he hits that 6'2 number and he's well above that 6 foot number

that people have talked about. Here's the other thing before we get into the, what I want to talk about at the end of the show here. Why do heights come in four digits? We see this every year the nfl reports them in the four digit manner that they do and people are like what what is going on here why can't they convert fractions

what why is this happening like with many things this is just the way the nfl does it and we it's been frustrating for me to figure out as well but it comes in a four digit number so for example baker mayfield his height is listed at six zero zero five the first number being obviously feet the next two numbers being inches and then that fourth number being in eighths of an inch so tannerly for example he comes in he's six four and an eighths of an inch. So Tanner Lee, for example, he comes in, he's 6'4 and 2 eighths of an inch. That gets reported as 6'0, 4'2. Now, why don't we convert that 2 eighths into 1 quarter? I don't know.

It's just the way they do it because every tenth of an inch matters, I guess. And we see it on Twitter every year, you know, why can't they figure it's just the way the NFL does it. The NFL does things. Look in the, in the era of GPS satellite global positioning, where my accurate can tell me down to, you know, a couple of feet where I am in the world. We're still measuring first downs with two sticks and a chain. Sometimes the NFL is set in their ways. They're also set in their ways sometimes when it comes to evaluation,

particularly with quarterbacks. That's what we're going to get into on the other side here. The will versus should debate. That's next with me, Mark Schofield, in Locked on Patriots. Mark Schofield back with you, and quick update on the status of my back,

because I know you're all worried. I actually did have some people reach out. The back's a train wreck still. Take care of your back, friends. I'm trying everything. I'm actually sitting upright doing the show today, so hey, we're making some progress. But the back is still a train wreck, friends. I'm trying everything. I'm actually sitting upright doing the show today. So, hey, we're making some progress. But the back is still a train wreck, friends. I don't know.

Perhaps water slides. Not a good move for me. But we go on. And I want to get into here before we close out this installment of Locked on Patriots. Will versus should. I've talked about it some. There was a discussion on the timeline a little bit today about Sam Darnold and where he might go draft positional wise.

I always try to emphasize my work as a will versus should discussion. Because there are some players that will go in the first round that I don't think should. And I'm going to keep the focus here to quarterbacks. And what's interesting about this is I just got done chopping it up with Adam Kirchhen and Evan Lazar from the Boston Herald on their Naked Bootleg podcast,

which should be coming out a little bit later today, about the quarterbacks in this draft and sort of putting them into tiers and who we'd pick where. But I think it was interesting to see sort of the discussion around Sam Darnold begin today. And I had done a podcast with Nate Geary over at WGR, the Intentional Scouting Podcast,

that he and I do together with Joe Marino from NDT Scouting about Sam Darnold. And the sort of discussion became, could he slide into the second round? Well, from where I sit, I think Sam Darnold potentially should slide into the second round.

I'm still going to have probably a late first round grade on him in a vacuum. You know, but I see others like Joe Marino, like John Ledyard over at NTT Scouting as well, who talk about Sam Darnold and say, look, he's more an early day two guy for me. And in a vacuum, that's kind of where we have this guy.

Because there are some questions and concerns about him. You know, but that's the should side of this debate. You know, should he go early in the first round? I don't think so. You know, I'm much more comfortable and sort of in a vacuum position of value-wise on Sam Darnold later in the first round. Now, will he go in the first early?

Yeah, of course he will. Quarterbacks get pushed up the board all the time. And so when I think when you look at the big five, Allen, Donald, Mayfield, Jackson, Rosen,

let's look at it this way. Allen, Rosen, Donald, Baker. Will they go in the first round, in the top half of the first round? Yes, to all. I think all of them go before, say, 15. Should they?

I'd say Rosen, yes. Baker, yes. Donald, eh, I'm not quite there. And Allen, no. I just think in a vacuum, looking at those guys,

that's kind of how I've got them graded. I'm much more comfortable with a Baker in the top 10 because I think he's going to be successful early in his career. I think he can run NFL offenses early in his career. I'm not betting against that guy, like I've said. I think Rosen, again, scheme diverse guy. But when I look at Allen, when I look at Donald, I have more questions about them.

Again, will versus should. And then it gets us to Lamar. Will Lamar Jackson go in the first round? I don't know. I think that's unclear. And then, should Lamar Jackson go in the first round? I think so. You know, late in the

first round, I'm fine with Lamar Jackson. I'm fine with him saying it like 21-22 for Buffalo. Because I think that could work. If I really want to push things, for example, Josh Allen, I'm fine with him at 31 for New England.

If he falls to 31, as much as I have concerns about Josh Allen, I'm okay with it because I think it's the ideal sort of situation for him. I'm much more confident in Josh Allen developing into a top flight quarterback coming at 31 to New England

than I am at 1 to Cleveland. Than I am at, say, 6 to the Jets. Because you go in that top 10, there's a different set of expectations. There's the expectation from the fan base that you will see the field early,

that you will play early, that you are the savior. You know, you come off the board at, say, 31 to a team that has an established quarterback, a guy that's going to retire and go immediately onto the Mount Rushmore of quarterbacks. You know, there's a different set of expectations. You know, you go off the board late in the first round

to say the Pittsburgh Steelers to a guy that is going to make a Hall of Fame argument when he retires in Ben Roethlisberger. Different set of expectations. And so that's where this whole thing comes down to me. And again, as I say all the time, I'm just one guy with takes. My goal with this show and for my work is to just give you guys just one more piece to your own puzzle, to own arguments to your own evaluations and studies and whatsoever i'm not here to tell you the answers i'm just here to tell you sort of my thoughts and let you come to your own conclusions i sort of view this show as a dad sort of trying to teach his sons and daughters on how to approach their own work.

You know, I love nothing more than to see somebody, you know, take my arguments, take sort of what I'm thinking and say, okay, well, that's great and all, but here's why I disagree. Because the art of quarterback evaluation, it's closer to wizardry than it is to pure science. NFL teams have so much information at their disposal and they get it wrong all the time.

I'm just sort of taking what I see on film, my process watching these guys over the course of one, two, sometimes three years, and seeing their growth and seeing their evaluation and seeing sort of what skills and traits have translated well and what skills and traits haven't, and dropping some takes and trying to have some fun with it. Because at the end, this is supposed to be fun, right? It's a game. We're supposed to have fun with it. Because at the end, this is supposed to be fun, right? It's a game. We're supposed to have fun with it.

Because we're all going to be wrong. We're all going to take some L's. We're all going to miss on guys. My goodness, I'm still dreading it. The retrospective I have to do on my Dak Prescott ranking. I mean, man, did I miss on that guy. But it's okay. I'm still more angry about missing on him

than I was being right on Goff, on Wentz, on Christian Hackenberg than anything else. Because you learn from it. You try to get better. And at the end of the day, we're here talking about a game we sometimes, some of us played as a kid, some of us still love watching and talking about.

It's supposed to be fun. But will versus should, I think that's the way to frame these discussions. You know, and sometimes people come back to me and they say, look, you say you're okay with a guy at 31, but you're not okay with him at five. Like what's really the difference here?

It seems like you're splitting hairs. And it comes back to that sort of idea of different expectations. It's part of the reason I was somewhat hesitant on Trubitsky at two last year was because he was my QB four in that group. I thought he needed some time to develop. When the Bears went to gut him, I thought that there was going to be a fear that he was going to be pushed into action too soon.

And my argument was, at the time, if they have a plan to sort of bring him in some way midway through the season, I could see that working. And maybe they would have that Mike Glennon bridge. That's the way it turned out. So they handled it right. They had a plan.

And that's kind of where I want to close on sort of the will versus should and the Josh Allen debate. Because, again, if you draft Josh Allen with the expectation that he's going to play early, I hope you have a plan in place and a mode of attack to try to handle that transition. You know, will it be sort of a focus on the run, establish the run, play action pass, stuff like that? I could see that working, but you've got to have the right plan in place because Josh Allen is a guy that when he's on the field, he has

no plan B. His plan B is if I get into trouble, I'm going to roll to the right and throw the football as hard and as far as I can. Now, I've also heard the, why don't you like this guy why don't you want to see him do well remember I'm a quarterback I'm a card carrying member of the quarterback union I want there to be 32 first round quarterbacks in every single draft I want all these guys to succeed

when I make the case that I want to see this guy fall to this spot this is where I think is the best spot for him it's because I think that's the best path to that player having success in the NFL. That's it. It's not because I don't like this guy. It's not because I don't like your school.

That was a fun argument people tagged with me once. Why do you hate Louisville? Why do you hate Louisville? You're a Kentucky fan. Oh, now you're just trying to write nice things about Lamar Jackson because you want to do it for the clicks, but you're a Kentucky fan and you hate Louisville. I went to a D3 school. I have absolutely no root and interest in any...

If I have a root and interest, it's in Nebraska because I sort of married into the Nebraska fandom. But that's a passing type of interest. I didn't go to a big-time college football school. SEC, ACC, Big 10, Big 12, whatever. It doesn't matter to me. I want to see all these guys have success. I want to see 32 first-round quarterbacks each year.

But we've got to be realistic about it, and I want to put these guys in spots where I think they'll have success. And when I grade these guys, that's how I view them, and that's where I think they'll best be suited. I want to be wrong about some of the guys I put in the lower half of the draft.

I want them to come back to me on Twitter five years in a row and say, hey, you thought I could have made it. Well, guess what? Here I am. What are you doing? Okay. I'd like to see that. But we're just getting started.

Here it is just March 1st and the takes are flying. I will be back on Monday with sort of a weekend recap. We will see the quarterbacks throw this weekend. I will have takes. Hopefully, they will be good ones. Hopefully, you will enjoy them. Until next time, keep it locked right here to me, Mark Scofield, and Locked on Patreon.