Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Locked On Patriots March 13, 2019 - Odell, Patriots News and Comp Pick History

Episode Date: March 13, 2019

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there everybody, welcome on into a Wednesday installment of the Locked On Patriots podcast. Mark Schofield back into the big chair for today, Wednesday, March 13th, 2019. Day two of NFL legal tampering in this free agency period. Well, man, it delivered some shocking developments. We have to get into that. Also, we're going to talk in the second portion of the show a little bit about the Patriots receiver core. We got some clarification on at least one player, some partial clarification on another, and a little bit later, we're going to talk about compensatory picks. That sounds a little bit like a John Oliver setup, but I spent a lot of time on Tuesday

writing a piece for Pat's Pulpit, going through Bill Belichick's history of compensatory picks, uncovered some stuff, even a bit of, shall we say, revisionist history or actual history. I'm going to have to rewrite a little bit of Patriots folklore, I think. But before we do all of that, a reminder to follow me on Twitter, at Mark Schofield. Check out the work at places like InsideThePylon.com, Pro Football Weekly, The Score, Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Big Blue View,

Bleeding Green Nation, and Pat's Pulpit, three SB Nation websites. And I think we've got to start with one of those sites, in a sense, and Big Blue View. Because let's face it, the big story today in the NFL is this. It's Odell Beckham. Not a member of the New York Giants anymore but instead a member of the Cleveland Browns and this is a deal that we were contemplating

contemplating last week there were the rumors of the Giants potentially shopping Odell, perhaps to Cleveland. I spent a lot of time talking about, sharing my thoughts on a potential move. And then it seemed to die off. Picked up a little bit of steam on Monday.

Jeff Howell, among others, basically saying that, look, seems like this deal might be back on. Still potentially being shopped around. We don't know anything yet. Jeff Howell among others basically saying that look, seems like this deal might be back on still potentially being shopped around, we don't know anything yet but then it happens, sort of a thunderbolt out of nowhere Mike Garofalo comes out and says it's happening, it's really

happening, this is not a drill kind of situation and then Adam Schefter follows it up with this here are the terms Giants receive a first round pick in 2019, number 17 overall. The Browns second, third round pick this year, and safety Jabril Pepper. Source tells ESPN, Browns get Odell Beckham Jr. Now let's sort of start with the Cleveland side because that makes it a little bit cleaner and neater, I think.

Now we all know job one of an NFL general manager in this day and age is to get the rookie quarterback, right? That's job one. It seems like John Dorsey and company, they got job one done when they drafted Baker Mayfield because it seems like he is the guy. Then job number two is to build around him, right? You've got your rookie quarterback, you got him on the rookie deal deal Now you want to maximize that window So they had Jarvis Landry last year You've got Antonio Callaway

Who they got in the draft You've got Rashad Higgins So you've got some pieces at the wide receiver spot You've got David Njoku, a first round tight end Seth DeValve as well So you've got two decent tight end options But you need to fill in the rest right you've got nick chubb a second round pick that maybe some thought was a first round type running back but

you need one more piece right so what do you do you go get perhaps a top five if not the best wide receiver in the game right now, an Odell Beckham. That seems like a no-brainer type of deal. But let's look at this from a Giants perspective. And I will say right at the outset, I don't understand it. I don't understand this from a Giants perspective. If the idea is that you're just going to tear it down and rebuild, okay, I can kind of get that. But then find a way to move on from Eli Manning now Go the bridge quarterback route Go a different direction Free up some more cap space And do that

By trading Odell Beckham You've now got 16 million in dead cap 16 million In dead cap space Now it does clear some cap space for you, but you've still got some dead cap there. So that's one issue. Two, Dave Gediman told us like six days ago,

we didn't sign Odell to trade him. Well, that's what you just did. Maybe the deal as offered to them, 17 overall, a third round pick, and Jabril Peppers. Obviously, you need to replace Landon Collins. Maybe that was just the kind of offer you can't refuse type of situation. but still that's a bit of a head scratcher and now imagine this the giants they're going to make picks at six maybe they go quarterback there maybe they don't maybe they go quarterback at 17

whomever they draft at 17 that is one of those sort of nightmare type scenarios for a rookie coming into the league because that player will always will always be associated with odell beckham if odell goes on and does great things with cleveland and this player they draft doesn't pan out that's a nightmare scenario i mean from jump this player is going to be associated with odell Beckham. He will always be compared to Odell Beckham Jr. And if they draft a quarterback at 17, that quarterback, it's a has-to-hit situation. Because if he doesn't pan out, it's going to be forever the pick of the guy that got away. It's a nightmare type of proposition. And we're reading right now,

Bucky Brooks and others have already said, look, a guy to watch at 17 is Daniel Jones from Duke. There's the Cutcliffe connection and all that stuff. And I will just say this. My thoughts on Daniel Jones are pretty well documented. If they draft Daniel Jones at 17 and a pick that they got via trading out Odell Beckham,

that is a scenario I would not want to be anywhere near when it goes down. Twitter will melt. The Big Apple will explode. Just something to watch. Just seems like a bad situation to drop a rookie quarterback into. So we'll see how Gettleman handles this.

Maybe he does the unimaginable and trades down again, gets some extra picks along the way, and really starts the rebuild process. I can see that, but a lot of money in dead cap, a pick that is forever going to be associated with Odell Beckham. Why trade him now since you did the extension last year? A lot isn't adding up. And it's not like a situation where the previous regime gave him the extension, gave him the new deal,

and now you're forced to either eat it when it wasn't your own doing or just move on from it. This was you. You signed him to the new deal. wasn't your own doing, or just move on from it. This was you. You signed him to the New Deal. And there are some out there, the Mike Franceses and others, saying that, look, this is how you build a team, etc., etc., etc. This is a top-five talent. The return better be worth it.

Yes, in some sort of theoretical world, you can just hit it out of the park with that pick at 17, hit it out of the park with that third rounder, and yeah, you're getting a start in safety back in Jabril Peppers. But if you miss on one or perhaps both of those picks, you better get these right. So that's the Odell stuff. Up next, we're going to talk a little bit about the Patriots wide receivers.

And a little bit later, some stuff on comp picks. All ahead on this Wednesday installment of Locked on Patriots. Mark Schofield back with you now on this Wednesday installment of the Locked on Patriots podcast. And I forgot a name in that previous segment. We were talking about the Browns and the move that they made. They acquire Odell via trade. They get Kareem hunt too at some point obviously there might be a there's a suspension situation that has to be worked out there so we don't know if and when he's going to be coming back to the active roster but when he does that offense is loaded baker landry nojoku, Chubb, Johnson, Kareem Hunt.

Now you've got Odell in the mix as well. I mean, that's not a bad 12 personnel type of package to be rolling out there, you know, when you consider self-development. So another weapon at Baker's disposal. There were some stories, there were some tweets out in the world, anonymous sources, coaches tweeting back and forth. They're going to

be a tough team to beat next year. They might win it all next year. Also, this is locked on Patriots. Open at night, or at least that open Sunday night, if the NFL is going to do the Thursday night opener with Bears-Packers, you've got to think week one, Cleveland-New England is in

the mix. It's not a bad way to have that Sunday night to kick off, you know, or at least round off the first Sunday slate of games and so we might be seeing that that team pretty early maybe it'd be good to see them early before they gel before they get hunt back noted Patriots killer let's talk about the Patriots though some bits of news here first New England starting to address or at least think about addressing, the wide receiver room. According to the NFL Network's Tom Palacero, the Patriots gave Josh Gordon a low-restricted tender

worth $2.025 million. This was first reported by the Boston Globe. If the Patriots do see him signed away by another team, they would get a second-round pick in return. Such a move would be a long shot given his suspension history he remained suspended indefinitely again by the nfl for his latest violation of the league's substance abuse policy he was suspended indefinitely by the nfl on thursday december 20th

for violating the terms of his reinstatement of the league's substance abuse policy. He issued a statement at the time saying that he was stepping away from the game of football because he takes his mental health very seriously. And he has felt recently like he could have had a better grasp on things mentally. The Patriots issued a statement at the time saying that we support Josh and his continued efforts to focus on his health. His attempt to do so is a private and personal matter which we intend to respect and so probably unlikely the team is going to sign him away from the patriots and he would face

a suspension if he gets reinstatement again but if that does go down the patriots seem to keep him in the plans for the future. Additionally, the Patriots placed another second round tender, this time on former undrafted cornerback Jonathan Jones, also a second round tender, a bit of a higher second round tender, this of $3.095 million. But the Gordon news was met well by obviously some of the Patriots players. Gordon tweeted out a JFK quote about working. Tom Brady liked it immediately. Josh Gordon also had on his Instagram story a picture of one of his children dancing in a Patriots jersey with the caption underneath it, still a Patriot.

And so Gordon and his teammates seemed to be pretty excited about the news. Some other Patriots wide receiver news. There is a receiver that will be moving on from New England. That is Cordell Patterson. Cordell Patterson must have made an impression when the Patriots played out at Soldier Field because he is expected to sign a two-year deal with the Chicago Bears. Now remember he had the nice long kick return against the Bears. According to ESPN.com, the former Patriots receiver has agreed to terms on a two-year deal with the Bears that will pay him a total of $10 million. Now what are the Bears getting? We know what the Bears are getting.

They're getting a great returner, but they're also getting sort of a Swiss Army knife, a versatile type of player. Lined up at running back, did some stuff at wide receiver. They used him all over the field. And so the Patriots are going to need to replace him. Thankfully, thankfully, the Patriots have an opportunity to do that in this draft class.

Number one, it's a very, very deep class at the wide receiver position. You go through any sort of mock draft, any sort of big board, anything like that. You get into the late day two, early day three range. There are a number of options available. So that's one thing to remember here. The Patriots will have an ability to address some guys via the draft. They're getting some players back next year that were basically taking a redshirt this year,

namely Braxton Berrios. The Braxton Berrios dream lives on. So that's another thing to remember. Also a player to watch in that respect might be Steven Anderson. He's technically a tight end, but he was a guy that played more wide out when he was at the University of California, so I would keep an eye on him. He might be an interesting name to watch in sort of the wide receiver room

as that develops. And let's not forget, the Patriots, they haven't made any moves in free agency yet, right? But this is kind of the Patriots' MO. They typically wait, lie in the weeds a bit, and then they sort of make their moves in the sort of second or even third wave of free agency. And there are still some interesting free agent options out there at the wide receiver position. Now, there are some guys off the market already. Antonio Brown to the Raiders via trade, of course, and Odell to the Browns via trade,

to Sean Jackson to the Eagles, Danny Amendola to the Lions, John Brown to the Bills, Cole Beasley to the Bills, Adam Humphreys, whom the Patriots were in on, apparently got outbid by the Titans, Josh Bellamy to the Jets. Those are the only real names that have changed teams. But there are some names and some big names out there in sort of that second tier. Golden Tate is a name to watch.

A player I'm intrigued by but might be the best wide receiver left out there is Terrell Williams from the Chargers. Some other lower tier names, you might look at a Jermaine Curse. I know Dave Archibald over in the Locked On Patriots Slack channel mentioned him. He would be an interesting name to watch.

Terrence Williams from the Cowboys, more of a wide receiver three, wide receiver four type. He's a name I think people should watch. They could obviously bring in Hogan again, bring back Dorsett. So those guys are still sort of out there. Dontrell Inman, I don't know about that. Maybe Jordan Matthews 2.0, that could happen. Oh, Jamison Crowder to the Jets. That's another one I didn't mention.

But there are some names, maybe in Eli Rogers, there are some names they can kick the tires on. So I wouldn't be surprised to see them address wide receiver here, at least bring in a guy, maybe two, but it is a deep wide receiver group. So don't be surprised if they address a number of names, both via the draft and via free agency. It's just, they're not going to do it early. Patriots, they address it in the second wave or so. So be patient there. Some moves are coming. Up next, compensatory picks. It's part of Belichick's folklore, his ability to sort of work the compensatory pick system.

So I wrote a piece working on it. Spent a lot of time Tuesday working it together, looking at the history around Belichick's compensatory picks during his time in the New England Patriots. And we've got to rework some news here. A bit of the Patriots' compensatory pick folklore needs to be reworked. That's ahead on this Wednesday installment of Locked on Patriots. Compensatory picks.

They have become part of the aura around Bill Belichick and how he approaches roster construction. And if you want any evidence of that fact, look at the recent discussion around Trent Brown and Trey Flowers moving on. Here, national media, anywhere you look, it's, oh, they get Trent Brown for next to nothing via trade. They let him walk via free agency. They're probably going to get a third round pick in return. Trey Flowers, they don't want to pay him the big money. They let him walk. They're going to get a third round pick in return. Part of the reason they have 12 draft picks in the upcoming draft is because they got four compensatory picks coming their way for guys like Nate Solder and Deion Lewis and Danny Amendola moving on. Now, it is important to remember that the way compensatory picks are allocated isn't sort of a one-to-one situation.

It's done via a formula that the NFL doesn't release, so we always end up guessing at what these deals are going to or these people walking away, the guys that you lose via free agency, are going to end up becoming in terms of compensatory picks. It's never a one-to-one situation. That's something I learned just basically in the past couple of days, going through this stuff. Because what I did was, for a piece that I worked on over for Pat's Pulpit,

was sat down and revisited and looked at all of the Belichick drafts in New England, dating back to the year 2000, and the compensatory picks that they had in those drafts, the players that had left, the players that they had signed in free agency, to show you kind of who came in, who came out, why they got these picks, the picks that were made, and in some instances, although not a lot, because you're usually dealing with picks in the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth and seventh rounds, if there was an interest in the number two that was still on the board. But it's easy to look back,

hindsight being what it is, and say, oh, you should have drafted TJ Lane, for example. Well, we don't know. And so because there's been so much about the compensatory picks, I wanted to put this together. And I came across something interesting.

Because again, part of Belichick's lore is that he hit on some compensatory picks. Obviously the one that is easiest to throw out there, and it's a big one, it's Tom Brady. Anytime you get the greatest quarterback of all time with a compensatory pick at 199, it's going to be an

outlier that you can rely on and just say, you don't think compensatory picks matter? Look what we did. But when you look at any sort of compensatory pick list for the New England Patriots, part of the folklore is David Givens. A seventh round selection in the 2002 draft, he was made a pick 253. And any sort of list of the great compensatory picks during the Belichick era includes David Gibbons.

Why not? When you draft a receiver in the seventh round who goes on to play three seasons for you, goes on to be a relied upon receiver in that 2004 postseason run, he caught a touchdown in each of their three postseason games, including one in Super Bowl 39 against the Eagles, he's commonly held up as among the more notable compensatory picks by Belichick. And in putting this piece together, I wanted to make sure that I had the exact list of names that went into the compensatory pick calculus by the NFL. So I went back and looked at each of the NFL official releases for all of these draft cycles to make sure, okay, for example, for the 2005 draft, the players they lost before the previous season were Mike Compton, Bobby Hamilton, Ted Washington, and Damian Woody.

They added Keith Traylor via fee agency. So the NFL, when they did the calculus, they gave the Patriots three comp picks, a pick in the third round at 100 overall, a pick in the fifth round at 170 overall, and a pick in the seventh round at 255. So I wanted to make sure that I had each of those for each of these draft classes in which they had a comp pick. But when I was trying to figure out

how that 2002 draft came together, you look at the release, and it doesn't have the Patriots listed as even getting a comp pick. And I spent like two hours trying to find it. I couldn't find it. They had made the pick at 253, but Detroit was listed as having the comp pick there, and this was before you could trade comp picks.

And so I was really scratching my head around it i put up the clarion call on the lockdown patriots slack channel could anybody come up with an idea who zifa patel had what i thought was the right answer this was the year of the expansion draft and the patriots did lose a player matt stevens a safety to the Houston Texans? Were teams given comp picks as a result? So I looked down that road, couldn't find an answer, and it didn't seem to be the right answer because that expansion draft was in February, and then the document I had from the NFL list

in the comp picks was April. So that wouldn't make sense. You wouldn't not have that listed for a draft that already took place. And so I really got myself into the weeds and I started looking through the internet archive and way back machines. And I found the NFL.com archived page for the 2002 draft and something jumped out at me that i wasn't expecting you see this sea of picks the compensatory picks 244 by atlanta 245 by the giants 246 by jacksonville 247 by jacksonville 248 by san fran 249 buffalo 250 tampa bay 251, Buffalo. 252, Detroit. All compensatory selections. And then at 253, New England.

And it says next to it, passed at 244, pick exercised here. And then, for further evidence to bolster this, I went and found, this was actually shared with me by John Lomarakis, I've either locked up on Patriot's Slack channel and I went to it myself, the website rlads.com, which is a tremendous resource for depth charts, they even have AAF depth charts right now, their page on the 2002 NFL Draft, pick note right at the top, New England originally held the 244th pick, but passed. They did not choose to exercise this pick until after nine selections were made by other teams. Teams listed as drafted between 244 and 252 actually held positions one slot lower than the order shown.

The order shown was the order in which the selections were made. And so the Patriots were on the clock at 2.44 with a regular pick. But they passed. And they waited. And immediately the comp pick started. Because that pick that actually was made at 24 by atlanta was a comp pick so it's just comp pick comp pick after comp pick and then when the patriots finally made their selection it was at 253 amidst the sea of comp picks but it wasn't technically a comp pick it was just a regular pick

and it was david givens but on throughout Patriots lore and history, it has become understood that that was a compensatory selection and David Givens gets added to the list of great comp picks by the New England Patriots. But it's not technically the case. Now, yes, a pick at 253 amidst the sea of comp picks,

you can understand why people would sort of come to that understanding. You go to Wikipedia or anywhere else and it's listed as a compensatory selection but in reality it was just a seventh round pick but even if you take david givens off that list of great comp picks by the new england patriots tom brady probably outraced every single one that they missed on but they did still get some other good selections along the way. You look at, for example, in 2006, they had two comp picks. One was Dan Stevenson, a guard from Notre Dame who never appeared in Patriots uniform. But the other one was LeKevin Smith from Nebraska, defensive tackle.

He played in 31 games for the Patriots. Recovered one fumble, made 17 tackles. He was traded to Denver in 2010 along with a seventh-round pick for a fifth-round pick, but you probably know what they turned that fifth-round pick into. Obviously, they didn't make it. Some other names that the Patriots drafted via the compensatory pick process.

You got Brandon Dedrick, a rotational defensive lineman for the Patriots. He started in a Super Bowl for New England. Interestingly enough, that was a pick in 2010. In the sixth round of 2010, at 205, they had a calm pick. They drafted Ted Larson, a center from NC State. He was waived by the Patriots early in the ensuing season.

But that was not the last time the Patriots saw him. The last time the Patriots saw Ted Larson was on the field during the Miracle Miami. He helped sprain Kenya Drake on that final play with a big block downfield where he took out two Patriots. So that one stings a little bit. In 2014, they had one pick. One comp pick. Round round four selection 140 cameron flummon obviously they've done some interesting things with him 2015 they had two comp picks round three pick 97 round seven

pick 253 at that pick at 97 they drafted genio grissom a rotational defensive lineman and at 253 they drafted xavier dickinson from alabama defensive end he was released by the patriots prior to that Grissom, a rotational defensive lineman. And at 253, they drafted Xavier Dickinson from Alabama, defensive end. He was released by the Patriots prior to that season, but he's now part of the formidable Iron Curtain for the Birmingham Iron of the AAF. So he's still kicking around.

2016, they had four comp picks. Vincent Valentine was one. Kim Gregor Hill, a linebacker, he was waived by the team during final roster cuts, but he won a Super Bowl just with Philly against New England. Alandon Roberts was a comp pick at 214. Ted Karras was a comp pick at 221. Those are some guys still playing a role for the New England Patriots. Now, in 2017, they could start trading these picks for example in 2017 they had one calm pick it was a fifth rounder so you know full well they traded it they sent it to kansas city for tight end james

o'shaughnessy and a pick at 216 overall belchick then picked that sent that pick at 216 and 239 to the cowboys to move up to 211 in draft. Offensive tackle Connor McDermott. So that was a bit of an interesting pick. Last year they had one calm pick as well. Pick in the fourth round at 136. But that was sent to LA along with Brandon Cooks in return for picks 23 and 198. Pick 23 became Isaiah Wynn.

Pick 198 was traded to the Kansas City Chiefs for two 7th round selections, 233 and 243. Pick 233 was traded to the Eagles for pick 250 and a 7th rounder in this draft. At 243, the Patriots drafted Keon Crossan. And at 205, excuse me, at 250, that pick they got via the trade with the Eagles. They drafted Ryan Izzo. And going all the way back to the Tom Brady draft,

they had four comp picks in that draft. Brady was the comp pick. Round six, 199, we all know that. Now, 127, they drafted Greg Randall, an offensive tackle out of Michigan State. He appeared in 12 games for New England as a rookie, started all 19 of the Patriots games in the 2001 season,

seven games for the Pats in 2002. He was traded to the Texans prior to the 2003 season, a deal that sent a fifth-round pick back to the Patriots, which Belichick subsequently traded. That pick at 2-0-1, that was David Nugent out of Purdue. He was a defensive end, appeared at 15 games for New England over two seasons, had one start during the 2001 campaign again we know what happened at 199 and that final comp pick they had in that draft round seven selection 239 patrick pass who would become a three-time super world champion with the patriots the fullback out of georgia so hey there's some comp stuff

maybe you didn't care to learn but now you know the rest of the story, to quote Paul Harvey, so to speak, about David Gibbons. That will do it for today. I will be back tomorrow. Thursday's show, it's usually a take Thursday. We'll probably have some more reactions to everything else. Until then, keep it locked right here to me, Mark Schofield, and Locked on Patriots.