Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Locked On Patriots November 21, 2018 - Thanksgiving Eve Crossover

Episode Date: November 21, 2018

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Welcome to another Crossover Wednesday here on the Locked On Podcast Network. It is the day before Thanksgiving, November 21st, 2018. I'm John from Locked On Jets here with Mark from Locked On Patriots. We're previewing the Jets and the Patriots this Sunday. Mark, how are you? I'm doing fantastic, John. How are you doing this fine, fine? Well, it's basically, we are basically on Thanksgiving Eve, shall we say.

I'll tell you, from the Jets side, I'm looking forward to Thanksgiving a lot more than I'm looking forward to this game. Jets have not been playing very well, which is a pretty common theme. A few of those rivalry through the years. Lots of cases where the Patriots are playing very well heading into the game and the Jets are not. Yeah, it's kind of a strange situation right now because obviously the Patriots, well, both teams coming off the bye week.

The Patriots, you know, obviously they struggled in their last outing. So it's going to be interesting to see sort of how these two teams come back sort of from the bye week. And I guess sort of we're going to start with the Patriots having the football. My first question for you, John, is in terms of this Jets defense, sort of where is that group right now? Because when I study them on tape, the player I'm impressed with is Jamal Adams. But then it seems like there are some holes perhaps in other spots on this defense. Yeah, I think you hit it right on the head. Jamal Adams is having an excellent second season. It's kind of unusual to see a safety drafted sixth overall because it's not a big impact position. So you take a guy that high, he better be an impact player. And he's

really doing a tremendous job this year. He's been one of the preeminent run stopping uh safeties in the league but he's also improved quite a bit in coverage and he's been pretty i think he's been pretty effective uh as a blitzer you're kind of finding the breaches in the protection schemes but uh it's been up and down on defense i think the cornerback group entered the season. Fans were high on them. People were expecting big things. It really has not played out that way. I think of the corners, Morris Claiborne has been the best of the group.

He's actually had a pretty effective season. They signed him on a one-year contract, brought him back after a reasonably good 2017. Elsewhere, though, Buster Screen, the story of Buster Screen's Jets career, they signed him in 2015. one-year contract brought him back after reasonably good 2017 um elsewhere though buster screen the story of buster screen's jets career they signed him in 2015 there have been some really good moments but there have been a lot more really bad moments he's very inconsistent out of the slot and the big free agent signing trumaine johnson just has not panned out at all for the jet he first of all he struggled with injuries he's missed a number of games and when he's been in there he he's been very ineffective.

Right before the bye, the Jets had their bye last week, just like the Patriots, but before the bye, two weeks ago, it was his return to the lineup, first play of the game, he gets beat deep. That's just been the story of the season. He's a guy at his age, you kind of worry. It seems like his speed is

deteriorating. When the speed goes, it's tough for a quarterback. You know what he reminds me of is if you watched the Jets two years ago, Darrell Rivas, the end of his career where the speed was just totally gone. And when the speed goes, it's an issue because Johnson's always been a big press guy, and when he doesn't trust his speed, he's going to press less frequently. Because when he misses his jam, that means he's going to get beat because he can't run with anybody. So the cornerback group, I think it's been an issue for the Jets. Yeah, I was going to ask you about Tremaine Johnson

because I pulled up that Bills game, and like you said in that first play, it just seemed like he got beat, and he got beat a couple times in that game. It just seemed like Barkley either didn't connect on those or like he did on the first play of the game. But from what I've been reading around New York too, it does seem like he's been sort of a focal point of perhaps Jets fans eye, or at least in the secondary. Yeah, no question about it. So why don't we talk about the Patriots offense this year?

What are your general impressions of the way this unit has performed to this point? I mean, you know, it's a fascinating question, John, because it's sort of been a mixed bag of results, and it's sort of almost been a tale of, I'd say, three seasons so far because you had that first four games. You know, they dropped two of them, the road game at Jacksonville,

the road game at Detroit, and the offense was certainly struggling. And part of that was due, I think, in part to the lack of Julian Edelman, who was such a vital component to this Patriots offense, you know, Edelman being out due to his suspension. Then you get Josh Gordon in the mix. You get Gronkowski healthy. You get Edelman back. And it seemed like the offense was sort of clicking at times.

And then Gronkowski's dealing with injury. So he was out, you know, that game against Buffalo. He was sort of hobbled on that Monday night game. Didn't seem to be himself. You know, then they sit him down. You have that sort of debacle out in Tennessee where they couldn't protect Brady. They were doing a lot of things defensively that sort of, you know then they sit him down you have that sort of debacle out in Tennessee where they couldn't protect Brady they was doing a lot of things defensively that sort of you know flustered him flustered the offensive line Shaq and Mason being out the past couple of weeks hasn't helped it's all kind of bit of story of like three seasons so far I think for this Patriots team this

bye week could not have come at a better time because now they get a chance to get Gronkowski back and healthy I think he'll be ready to go on Sunday they get Mason back he expects to play on Sunday as well which I think is going to be a critical component to how this offense fares sort of in the second half of the season here because Shaq Mason such a critical component to that offensive line and so it's been an uneven group it's been an uneven start to this season but I think that they're hoping that they get their guys back healthy rested ready to go for the sort of stretch drive here. And they'll sort of get back to form as we, you know, look ahead to the last half of the season here. But it's been a mixed result so far. And, you know, one guy I'm curious about in particular is Josh Gordon, because, you know, he's been rumored to be on the trade block for years

with the Browns with all the issues he had out there. And I know a lot of Jets fans were interested in have been interested in him through the years. How has he performed? You know, it's interesting, John, because when New England sort of traded for him, I had on Jeff Rason, who covers the Browns for BrownsWire, and he told me that, look, the thing you have to remember is you're not getting 2013 Josh Gordon. He's a much different player. He's a much different person right now because you look at him, he's bulk getting 2013 Josh Gordon. He's a much different player.

He's a much different person right now because you look at him. He's bulked up since then. He's gotten bigger. He's put more muscle mass on. And so if you're hoping to get that guy that's going to be just a vertical threat, that's going to beat people with speed downfield, that's going to be the guy that can take the top off of a defense, so to speak, you're not quite getting that guy.

He can still do that at times, but he's a different player. And if you see how New England sort of used him, they've done a lot with the back shoulder throws to him, where they're really trying to let him use his size and his frame and his play strength to win at the catch point. They've done a lot of stuff with him, getting him involved on tunnel screens, getting him involved in the slant game and stuff like that. So it's been a different usage, different Josh Gordon than we've seen so

far. But I think the big thing is, John, he's found himself in the Tom Brady circle of trust. Brady will go to him on fourth down. He'll go to him on third down. When he sees single coverage, he'll go to him in those opportunities. And so they're definitely trying to get him ingrained in the offense. I think he's starting to grow into the role, but it's just a different Josh Gordon than we're used to seeing. John, I wanted to ask you this. We got a couple of questions from our listeners via the Locked on Patriots Slack channel, and John Limbarakis, who always asks some good questions, wants to know,

what are two guys on the defensive side of the ball that Pats fans might not know about who could potentially make a difference on Sunday? The first guy I'm going to give you is Avery Williamson, who was a guy the Jets signed from Tennessee. If you look at this Jets free agent class, the results have not been great. But Williamson's been the exception. He's played really solid football. Now, he's not a guy who's great. The Jets are using him as a three down linebacker. He's not that good in coverage. He's a guy you can kind of exploit in coverage, and I think the Jets try and give him some of the easier coverage assignments, but he's very good against the run, good instincts, and I'll tell you one

thing. If he's near the ball carrier, that guy's going down. He's not going to miss the tackle, so that'd be the first guy I'd give you. Second guy, I'd go with someone on the defensive line. I think I'm going to go with Steve McClend line i think i'm gonna go with steve steve mcclendon who has been dealing with some injuries uh you know if he plays solid solid run solid nose tackle uh good run stuffer you know he doesn't really put up big numbers um he's but he's a guy who's been very effective uh for the jets just kind of tying up blockers uh so he you know he's a guy who's been very effective for the Jets, just kind of tying up blockers. So he's a guy, your typical nose tackle is probably not going to be a household name because he's not going to make a lot of big plays.

In many instances, he's kind of doing the dirty work. But he's a guy, when the Jets are playing good run defense, he's usually in the mix there. Hey there, everybody. Mark Schofield from the Locked On Patriots podcast. And it's time to talk about something important. Something really important. Guys, let's talk about sex. Good sex.

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coming at you on Sunday. And, John, let's sort of switch gears here. Let's talk about the Jets' offense a bit. And, obviously, the the focus I think has to start with Sam Darnold and I've sort of got a two-part question for you first is you know what is Sam Darnold's status right now I know he missed practice on Monday with the foot injury you know so what is his sort of status for Sunday and the other question which again comes from a good from John Lumarakis via the Locked on Patriots Slack channel how are Jets fans feeling about his sort of development this rookie season um so your first question we don't know so that's great answer right there um there you go

darnell has uh the jets haven't announced anything yet uh darnell did miss practice on monday but he was spotted without a walking boot on his foot which which is a good sign. And he also did express some optimism. So there was some conspiracy theorists out there who think he's down, as you would expect with any rookie. There have been some really good moments. Unfortunately, recently there have been some really bad moments. But part of the story is just this is just a bad offense they've put around him. This offensive line has had some okay games but it's it's a very

inconsistent unit and it's been trending down in a big way recently and it's not just the pass blocking it's also the run blocking the jets have struggled to get the run game going uh for good big chunks of this season and the jets told you heading into the season their stated plan was that they wanted to lean on the run game so that they could take some pressure off Darnold it just hasn't worked you look at the receiving core again Jets fans entered the season with high hopes really has not lived up to its expectations they entered the season their top four guys Quincy and Nunwa got off to a good start been battling injuries been kind of inconsistent. Robbie Anderson, who kind of developed as a deep threat a year ago, has taken a step back this year.

Jermaine Kurtz, who was a solid veteran guy a year ago, kind of fallen off the face of the earth, and then Terrell Pryor has been cut. So, you know, you look at this offense, this offense has not been as good as Jets fans were hoping it would be. They just aren't getting the performances around Darnold. Now, some of that's Darnold. He has to play better. Some of it's just the types of growing pains you'd expect from a rookie. But, you know, a lot of it is just guys not performing the way Jets fans were hoping, the Jets team was hoping that they would.

Now, you look at the Patriots. I'm interested, what are your impressions on the way the Patriots have played defense this year? You know, I think it's sort of that similar answer that I gave you when we were talking about the Patriots offense. It's been a group of mixed results. The one thing that Patriots fans typically point to over the past year or so, especially in the wake of last year's Super Bowl, is the lack of athleticism up front, whether it's the lack of a consistent pass rush threat, the lack of athleticism on the second level when you're trying to look to defend those

run pass options and crossing routes and things like that that give the Patriots fits, you know, AFC Championship Games, Super Bowl 52 as well. And some of those inconsistencies have been present again this year. You look at their loss to Detroit. They're getting burned on crossing routes left and right. You look at their loss to Jacksonville early in, you know two it's again those crossing routes lack of athleticism to be able to run with those defenders whether it's linebackers and things like that inability to get home with four rushers so you have to blitz and you play man coverage behind it and you're

getting beat on those crossing routes and things like that and so it's been that sort of inconsistency up front which has sort of hurt this team but they got into a little bit of a groove. Obviously they had the win against Kansas city, which again, you still give up 40 points in a victory. It's not that much to write home about, but against that Kansas city offense, they were able to get enough sort of, you know, force them into enough field goals,

at least in the first half to put them in position to win that game. And they did some things coverage wise to take away Travis Kelsey, which I think certainly helped. But then against Tennessee, they were back to some of their usual stuff where they couldn't get pressure on Mariota when they did blitz. You know, he was able to avoid it. He was able to use his legs. Mobile quarterbacks have given this team fits over the past couple of seasons now.

It's a trend that just continues. And, you know, if Darnold's healthy and able to go, I think that's an area where the jets offense could exploit this patriots defense because he does have that playmaking ability he has a little bit of that outside the pocket ability to create off script that i think gives the patriots something to worry about if he's able to suit up and go on sunday well i mean you know holding the holding the chiefs to 40 might be an accomplishment i just i know of a team that just held the Chiefs to 51 and won a game.

Yeah, I mean, that Chiefs offense is insane. It's just insane. It's breaking the mold. But the health status of Donald, I think, is obviously going to be a critical thing for Sunday because if he can go, it certainly changes the way I'm going to look at this game. Sure, absolutely. So, Mark, another question I have. he can go it certainly changes the way i'm going to look at this game sure absolutely um so mark another question i have and this is tough to tell because we're not it you know nobody really understands the way the patriots work inside because they they keep a tight wrap on things

but to what extent do you think the departure of matt patricia's had an impact on this defense you know i i was wondering about that myself sort of going into the year, but it seems like Brian Flores, the linebackers coach slash defensive play caller, they haven't given him the full-on title of defensive coordinator just yet because that's sort of the way that they do it in New England. That's sort of the flow. You go from linebackers coach to play caller to then defensive coordinator. I think he has done a pretty good job, but let's not make a mistake anyway about it. This is still a Bill Belichick defense, and you see those videos, whether it's

Showtime or the NFL Network or whenever they have the sideline mic'd up, you see when the defense is on the sideline, it's Belichick who's coming over there and sort of putting the defensive players through, okay, this is what we saw last drive. This is what you guys need to do. This is what you need to focus on. We saw some of that from their game against Green Bay when they talked about the pass rush and getting after Aaron Rodgers and how he had made some interceptable-type throws. And so I think Flores has done a good job from a down-to-down play call and standpoint.

There hasn't been a situation where I really pointed to a defensive play call and said, look, probably should have done this, probably should have done that, like you were able to do at times with Matt Patricia. But I still think that the fact of the matter is this is still going to be a Bill Belichick coached team. Bill Belichick coached defense. And so I think his footprint and his fingerprints are all over the defensive side of the ball. Another question I had for you, John.

Jeremy Bates. I was a huge fan of John Morton. Loved what he did sort of from a schematic standpoint last year. A mix of West Coast and air raid type concepts. They move on from him. They bring in Jeremy Bates. I know, at least in reading around the Jets media, Jets Twitter, it seems like there's a bit of frustration. Am I correct in that assessment? Does it seem like there's some frustration around Bates? Perhaps the seat might be getting a little bit warm? Yeah, I think that that's a pretty accurate statement. And I think you have the pulse of the Jets fan base if you're asking, was John Morton popular? This was a guy who came in and, I mean, they really did not put a lot around him.

They gave him 38-year-old Josh McCown, with all due respect to Josh McCown, who has been good enough to stick around the NFL for quite some time. He's not really a guy who's ever been a long-term starter anywhere. And he squeezed a pretty solid season out of McCown without a lot of talent around him. You know what's been surprising and frustrating, I think, from the Jets' side has been that Bates was a guy, everybody talked about how he was part of the, he was on the offensive coaching staff last year,

and people talked about how he played a big role in the game planning last year. But the thing that really sticks out to me is just how much better the Jets were last year at manufacturing easy plays to execute by design, whether it was calling them or run pass options, whether it was just stacking receivers, using formations, using misdirection. And those things win on scheme. Your guys have to win one-on-one matches. The Jets just don't have the guys to do that. So, yeah, I think that there is frustration. And I think it's not just Bates who's on the hot seat.

I think that this whole coaching staff is in some trouble right now because ultimately, you know, the Jets have said it's not only about wins and losses this year, but if it's not about wins and losses, who's best to develop Sam Darnold? I don't think that this coaching staff this year has made much of a case that they're the best people to help develop Sam Darnold for the future. Hey there, everybody. Mark Schofield here from the Locked On Patriots podcast.

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or if not, if you're having safe travels, we hope that as well. And, you know, John, what you sort of talked about there led me to another question I had from one of our listeners, Dave Archibald, who wants to know, if Bowles is indeed out, is there somebody in mind, in your mind, and maybe the mind of Jets fans that they would want as their next head coach perhaps somebody with more of an offensive mind maybe you try to emulate what they're doing in LA or in Chicago Britain an offensive mind and head coach is there somebody that Jets fans are sort of convalescent around that they might want to have as their next

head coach I'm not sure there's one person but I do think the I do think a lot of people want to bring in an offensive guy. I think that's where people are gravitating, whether that's John DeFilippo from Minnesota, whether it's you go to the college ranks, whether it's Lincoln Riley. I think the Jets fans want somebody in that mold. Because let me tell you something. Woody Johnson bought this team in 2000. Early on, Al Groh leaves early in his his tenure so he has to make his first hire he

hires herm edwards a defensive assistant coach who's never been a head coach before herm edwards leaves in 2006 they hire eric mangini a defensive coach who's never been a head coach before eric mangini is fired after 2008 they hire rex ryan a defensive coach who's never been a head coach before rex ryan's fired after 2014 they hired todd bulls a defensive coach who's never been a head coach before. Rex Ryan's fired after 2014. They hired Todd Bowles, a defensive coach who's never been a head coach before. So I think, first of all, what the Jets have been doing, it hasn't been working. So there's an element of people wanting to do things a little bit differently, go with somebody from the offensive side of the ball. But also there's the Darnold element. And the comparison Jets fans keep bringing up is Jared Goff's rookie year, where Jared Goff looked really bad you know they're all

the stories about how Troy Aikman's went out to visit them and said this guy can't even throw a spiral and suddenly Jeff Fisher's fired after a year or during year one they bring in Sean McVay and suddenly Jared Goff's career takes off and I think a lot of Jets fans are looking at Sam Darnold and having the same type of potential if they bring in the right offensive guy so me personally I don't think it's as big of a deal because I think there are plenty of defensive coaches who understand how to make the right hires on the offensive side of the ball. But I think the fan base is really pushing for somebody who's an offensive minded head

coach. So, Mark, I'm interested in one thing is who's a player you have your eye on for the Patriots in this game? A guy who maybe has struggled before the bye, who you're hoping kind of improves after the bye? Because I'm going to give you a guy for the Jets, and that's the center, Spencer Long. And I think that for Spencer Long, there's no other way to put it.

Spencer Long has been a very disappointing signing for the Jets. He has not blocked effectively. But more than that, the basic snaps, shotgun snaps, have become an issue. They've been very inaccurate for a number of weeks. He's been dealing with a hand injury, so maybe that's been part of the issue. But he's been a big disappointment for this team in free agency. So I'm wondering if there's a guy you have your eye on who you had high hopes for heading into the season, then the disappointment that you're hoping improves after the bye, the way the Jets are with Long. You know, John, it's a great question. And it's funny you mentioned Long because when I was

sort of watching that Buffalo game to sort of get ready for this week, I saw a number of times when it looked like Long wasn't finishing blocks, wasn't executing properly in the run game. And so, you know, it's amazing that you mentioned him because I saw that as well. As far as the Patriots side of the ball, I mean, I think there are a couple of names you can point to. On the offensive side, you can point to sort of that third wide receiver spot whether it's Chris Hogan whether it's Philip Dorsett with the emergence of Josh Gordon that's a focal point of this offense with the return of Julian Edelman you know that third wide receiver spot hasn't done a lot in terms of production and Hogan has struggled he talked about that this week in the

locker room basically said that you know you just have to keep going out there and competing and putting good film on tape, and hopefully the production comes. But that third wide receiver spot is an issue for them, so I'm looking for somebody to sort of lock that down. On the defensive side of the ball, I think as good as Stephon Gilmore is, he's had some struggles in recent weeks. Corey Davis, for example, really had a good game against him when these two teams met before the bye.

He had a couple of runs where he really got the better of Stephon Gilmore. And Gilmore struggled at times leading up to that Titans game as well. And so even though he's a good lockdown corner and he's the guy that they trust, put it on your number one receiver and sort of locking him down. He's had some up and down moments. I'm curious to see how he looks coming out of the bye. John, I wanted to ask you this question. Thinking about sort of the Jets as a whole, taking a step back and looking at the developmental arc so far of Sam Darnold, the addition of the two safeties and May and Adams, is there still the feeling around Jets fans that, look, despite some of the recent struggles,

the fact that there might be a new head coach coming in, that this team is still generally on the right track to get to where they need to be? I think there was earlier in the season. I think the last few weeks they're on a four-game losing streak has raised the levels of pessimism. I do believe that there's a light at the end of the tunnel that a lot of fans see because for the first time in a while you have the quarterback in place you have a guy a lot of people believe in um but i think that this is still a team that a lot of people view is still closer to the beginning of its rebuild than the end i mean the jets only have

29 players under contract for next season so there would be large chunks of this team that need to be replaced really the best thing you can say, as I said, is, is the fact that at least they have the quarterback in place for the first time in a long time, which is the toughest piece. It's the piece that Jets have struggled with, but there's a lot they have to fill in around the quarterback. So, you know, a little bit, but I think there's a lot of frustration and that level,

that frustration level has been rising over the last few weeks, just because of the way the team's been playing football. Sort of to follow up on that i'm wondering is there any thoughts sort of in jet's land about josh mcgowan future whether a quarterback coach even offensive coordinator with this team because i know going into this season there was sort of that thought that this was the role that he was going to serve as sort of like you know a pseudo offensive you know quarterback type coach obviously he helped in that role a little bit last year when he was injured is there sort of that thought that that could happen down the road yeah i think so i think absolutely i think a lot of people would tell you that he's kind of in that role right now uh the jets don't have a full-time quarterbacks coach right now

because bates was the quarterbacks coach last year when he was promoted to offensive coordinator he kept that title so he's still so he's nominally the quarterback's coach but he's obviously focusing a lot on the game planning on the play calling all that stuff so mccown has kind of helped fill in that void a little bit and i don't know what it is but i always view like the guy like mccown is like the perfect guy to eventually move into coaching because he's somebody who's bounced around the league he's been in every system imaginable so he he's had every experience imaginable. So he just seems like the kind of like the perfect guy to slide into

coaching. Really smart guy. And, you know, Darnold, Darnold has talked about how much McCown has helped him this year. So yeah, he's,

he's almost kind of a player coach this year for, for this team. All right, John. So, you know, we've kind of worked our way through these teams worked our way sort of through the you know the state of both teams organizations fan bases what about sunday in

itself let's sort of finish up with this how do you see this game playing out how do jets fans see this game playing out on sunday jets fans see this game as a patriots blowout um i think this is actually gonna be a pretty close game and i i mean there's nothing really substantive i could say toward this uh just i just feel like the way the jets played two weeks ago against buffalo they're they're probably going to come out and play better especially off the bye i mean i think the patriots will win the game i i struggle to see an area where the the jets pull out a win here but i think back to two years ago the jets and patriots played it was i think it was actually thanksgiving weekend theets were coming off the bye. They were having a miserable year.

And they actually played a pretty feisty competitive game. I think based on the way they went into the bye with a whimper, with two weeks to prepare, I think they'll keep this score respectable. I think the Patriots will win maybe a 10 by 10 or so. It'll be that kind of game where the Jets are competitive into the second half and the Patriots kind of pull away in the fourth quarter. Yes, I'm right there with you because I'm seeing the number right now, nine and a half. And I don't know. I mean, you see these Jets Patriots games over the years. I mean, you know, last year when these two teams met and, you know, when the first

time they met, you know, the Jets had a chance to basically play for first place in the AFC East and you know these teams always for the most part play close games both teams coming off a bye obviously both teams didn't have the sort of game before the bye that they wanted to have so I think both teams are going to want to go out and put out a better performance but you know I see this game you know maybe a 27-17 27-20 type game that you know is going to come down to the fourth quarter. And I've had that feeling about a lot of Patriots games this season because as good as they look on paper, they haven't really put together a truly dominant type performance

other than the game against Miami. And so, yeah, I see this game coming down to the fourth quarter or so. All right. Well, Mark, it's been a pleasure. I'll tell you what. I'll let you have Thanksgiving. I'll let you have Christmas. Why don't we do this again, like maybe before the last week of the

season? How about that? John, that sounds like a fantastic time. And I look forward to chatting with you then. All right. And thanks, everybody, for listening to our show. Mark and I wish you all a happy Thanksgiving. And if you're traveling today, please travel safe. Take care, everybody.