Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Locked On Patriots October 31, 2018 - Halloween Crossover

Episode Date: October 31, 2018

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Hello there everybody, welcome into a crossover Wednesday installment of Locked On Patriots. In a couple of minutes, I'm going to have my great conversation with Peter Bukowski, the host of Locked On Packers, as we start to get you ready for what is shaping up to be a fantastic, fantastic, fantastic game between the New England Patriots and the Green Bay Packers on Sunday night football. This game being built as sort of a legacy type game between Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. But remember, look, those guys aren't playing against each other. They're playing against their respective defenses. And so that's how we're going to focus this game, focus the conversation about this game.

Before we dive into that conversation, a little reminder to follow me on Twitter at Mark Schofield. Check out the work at places like InsideThePylon.com, Pro Football Weekly, The Score, Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Big Blue View, part of the SB Nation family of websites, Minnesota Rivals, Steelers Depot, football guys. Look, if they're covering football, chances are I've done some work covering the game for them. Before we get to Peter, though, this is the day after.

This is the day after trade deadline day. And I'm going to reserve some time because I'm recording this on Tuesday. The deadline hasn't hit yet. I'm going to reserve some time just in case, you know, back in my lawyer days, in case the Patriots make the move, I will sort of hop on to an emergency podcast edition. So you may have already heard about the Patriots making some crazy deadline deal, but I wanted to get this done and wrapped up to leave myself that opportunity. But two traits have been made and two names that were potentially linked to the New England Patriots have found new homes. First was Golden Tate. He's going to the Philadelphia Eagles. It was rumored perhaps

early in that Monday night game, you heard some rumors swirling on Twitter that the Patriots were sort of intrigued by Golden Tate, Dante Hightower being held out, being made inactive for that game on Monday night. Had people quite wondering, you know, is that the move? Are we going to see Hightower reunited with Matt Patricia out in Detroit and perhaps Golden Tate coming in? Because we've heard these rumors swirling about the Patriots sniffing around another premium wide receiver. Golden Tate was in the mix. We heard the potential story about Josh Gordon that had some people wondering, look, if now he's already starting to act up,

if there's a troubling situation brewing with Josh Gordon with some tardiness or something, maybe the Patriots decide, look, we've got to get another guy in here. But Golden Tate now has a new home with the Philadelphia Eagles. That's going to make that Eagles offense a much, much tougher team to defend. You start to look at what the Eagles look like right now. They do have the two tight ends. They love Dallas Goddard.

They love, love, love Zach Ertz. But, you know, Nelson Aguilar, Jordan Matthews, Alshon Jeffrey, those are the three guys right now. Now you get to add in Golden Tate into that mix. I think it's going to do some nice things for that offense. As the Philadelphia Eagles, they look to sort of try to keep pace with the Washington Redskins and that NFC North. The other interesting move, perhaps other big name at the wide receiver spot

the teams were linked with, Demarius Thomas with the Denver Broncos. He's now moving on, but he's staying in the NFC, going to the AFC South and the Houston Texans. Houston obviously has a need for a wide receiver. They lose Will Fuller with that ACL injury. They get to add Demarius Thomas. And where I think he sort of steps in is if you look at Houston right now, when they go 11 personnel, you're talking DeAndre Hopkins, Kiki Kuti, and Sammy Coates.

It's not exactly an inspiring group, but you slide Demarius Thomas in for that Sammy Coates spot. That gives you an 11 personnel package of Hopkins, Couttie, and now Demarius Thomas. I think that's a much better group, a much better 11 personnel, three receiver type set. As I mentioned on this show a couple of days ago, with Fuller going down, I'm in on the Kiki Couttie experiment. I think he's going to add a nice little element that slot receiver type element that Houston probably needs right now I think putting Thomas on one side Hopkins on the other

makes you decide as a defense what do we do? Are we going to roll coverage? Roll safety help over just one guy? Are we going to try to go cover two? Are we going to try to go cover two and have dedicated safety help to both sides of the field. If they do that, then what do you got?

You got Ryan Griffin working that middle of the field. You got Kiki Kuti working that middle of the field. And so I think that this acquisition by Houston is a great move for them. It doesn't replace fully Will Fuller, I don't think. But you could probably make the case that, you know, Thomas is going to be at least a decent enough replacement to allow the Houston Texans to sort of keep scoring points. And so, you know, that's sort of a big thing for them to watch.

Now, in a few minutes, we're going to have my conversation with Peter Bukowski again. I've locked on Packers. We had a well-rounded conversation talking about teams on both sides of the ball, talking about the difficulties that the Patriots might face in sort of defending this Packers team, the difficulties that the Packers might face in defending Rob Gronkowski and Tom Brady and company as well.

Just sort of want to close things out with some quick final thoughts on that Patriots win from Monday night against the Buffalo Bills. Haven't had a chance to sort of sleep on it. And whenever I look for wisdom and insight and analysis, a name that I turn to is a name that I've talked about a lot on this show and elsewhere. And that's the wise and sage Dave Archibald. Obviously, Dave, a member of InsideThePylon.com. And over in the Lockdown Patriots Slack channel,

he had some wisdom that I did want to share with you. When he got himself onto the Slack channel on Tuesday morning, Dave, I thought it was a great win. Windy night, so it was tough to throw deep. No Sonny Michel, so no run game was going to be there. So the run game was not going to be there. Excuse me. They were still able to move the ball and didn't turn it over.

Would have been nice to punch in another touchdown or two. And it wasn't pretty, but they did what they needed to do. Defense needed to win this game, and they did. Bills have a terrible offense, but we've seen terrible offenses light up the Patriots' defense before. And they stood tough and made plays. Bills did not even get the ball into the red zone last night. And, you know, many of us, myself included, probably thought it was an underwhelming performance by the Patriots on Monday night football. But I think, you know,

the words from Dave right there kind of speak to what the team actually did on Monday night. We've seen so often throughout this season, particularly in the earlier weeks, when this defense was struggling, that it seemed to be a situation where they needed Tom Brady to do something heroic to have chances to win games, like that Jacksonville game, for example. And when he can't deliver at that kind of level

because of how well the defense is playing against him or guys aren't getting an open or whatever, it was going to be tough to see this team winning. They needed to see a situation where this defense stepped up, sort of took a game over and won a game for this team. The defense did that on Monday Night Football. You know, they hold them to field goals. They don't let them get into the red zone. You get the back break and pick six from Devin McCourty. This was a game that you could say, look, the defense won this game. Why is that important?

Because you're going to need this defense down the stretch. When you look ahead, you see the potential rematch at some point with Kansas City. You're going to need the defense to step up again and maybe even play better than they did in that meeting a couple weeks ago on Sunday Night Football. You're seeing now Houston Texans making an addition, get it to Marius Thomas. You might see them again. And obviously, Deshaun Watson's going to be a little bit healthier, a little bit better than he was back in week one, coming back from the knee injury.

So you might need the defense in a game like that. You've got Pittsburgh coming up in a couple of weeks. You've got a game down the road against a team like Tennessee, another mobile quarterback, for example, that you're going to have to probably win to keep pace with, say, the Kansas City Chiefs of the world. And then if you really want to get wild, if you really want to get nuts, you think about a potential Super Bowl with the Los Angeles Rams.

Now, we're not going there yet, but when you think of the offenses, the quarterbacks, the schemes that this team is going to be facing going forward throughout the rest of the regular season, and luckily, if this team is lucky enough to get to the playoffs and advance in the playoffs, deep into the playoffs, the teams that this defense might be facing, you're going to need the defense to step up. And that's why I think it was big for this team, big for the overall picture, the grand scheme of things to see this defense step up the way it did. And that's why this Monday night performance was huge for them.

So I thank Dave Archibald for his kind words. Again, if you want to see stuff like that in the moment, best way to do it, be part of the conversation over the Locked On Patriots Slack channel. Again, you can hit me up for an invite at Mark Schofield on Twitter. You can also hit me up via email, mark.schofield at inside the pylon.com up next my conversation with peter bukowski about this upcoming game this sunday night between the patriots and the packers but before we go remember i'm going to keep reminding you guys we are now less than a week away from midterm elections on tuesday please please please get out there and vote vote early if you haven't done so yet.

If you can vote early, go do that. If you can't, if you've got to do it on election day, make sure you get a plan in place. Bring some friends. Bring some buddies. Bring some men, women, family members. Everybody you know.

Again, I'm not telling you who to vote for. I'm just telling you to get out there and vote. Mark Schofield, Peter Bukowski doing a little Locked Over network crossover event, getting you guys ready for a huge Sunday night matchup on Sunday Night Football.

Look, they're bringing the GOAT, Michael Jordan, out to do promo teasers for this game. That's how you know it's going to be a big one. We're going to dive into it right now. Peter, how are you doing, my friend? I am good. How are you? As I said before we got started, I would be a little bit better if Ty Montgomery had taken a knee in the end zone, but that is not what happened. But that means I have a lot more to talk about on my show. You do have a lot to talk about your

show. And Peter, let's just start there since you brought it up. Obviously, what seems to be perhaps playing out a little bit of an awkward situation. We're hearing some rumblings about some people being upset. Obviously, on social media, there were some disgusting comments. I think we could agree on that, you know, levied towards Ty Montgomery for his decision to take it out. How is the aftermath of that situation been out in Green Bay? Well, I think, you know, there are, there are competing versions of how this all went down.

Mike Silver reported on Monday that there were some players frustrated. They felt like Ty Montgomery made what they characterized as a selfish decision based on the fact that he wasn't getting enough playing time. They characterized his actions on the sideline prior to that as having thrown a temper tantrum because he was taken out of the game. He played just six offensive snaps on Sunday. And this is a guy who was coming into the 2017 season, supposed to be a focal point of the offense. And so, you know, you sort of feel for the guy and the, and the frustration that he has there, someone who was a receiver early in his career, uh, potentially shortened his career by moving

to running back and taking more hits. He's had some injury problems over the last two years. So you sort of feel where Ty Montgomery is coming from. That being said, he should have taken a knee. He admitted he should have taken a knee. He was told to take a knee. That was the game plan. Mike McCarthy said he made a mistake. But at the same time, you sort of understand a guy wanting to make a play to help his team win.

The question for the team now is how do they deal with it moving forward? Is he just not going to be a player that that gets snaps for this offense? Because I do think this could be a week where against those Patriots linebackers and safeties, he has a very advantageous matchup for Green Bay. So what is what is the tolerance level for the Packers of this moving forward, the players and the coaches? And I don't know the answer to that. And I guess we'll see on Sunday they have to go try and beat a really good Patriots team and whether or not Ty Montgomery is going to be a part of that game plan, I think is a very open question at this point. You know, Peter, since we started sort of on the offensive side, let's stay there with this Packers offense. And I've

got a couple of questions from some listeners through the Locked on Patriots Slack channel. And since we're talking Montgomery and sort of skill position players, we can start there. Calvin S wants to know, what are your thoughts on this Packers receiver group, particularly outside of Devontae Adams? It's really, I think it comes down to two veteran players for Green Bay, Jeronimo Allison and Randall Cobbin, and what their roles are going to be moving forward as Marquez Valdez-Scantling and Equinemius St. Brown, two rookies, have really shown promise dronno allison was

the team's leader in receiving yards before he got hurt randall cobb was having a solid season had that huge uh what ended up being the game winner against the bears in week one and then both those guys got hurt and against the lions um both uh and MVS, the rookies. We can just go acronyms. Their names are way too long to say every time. They both have huge games. Marquez Valdez-Scantling goes over 100 yards, had scored two touchdowns. One was overturned on review.

But still, we saw the 33-yard touchdown from Valdez-Scantling. Maybe it was 33-yard touchdown from Valdez Scantling, or maybe it was 40-yard touchdown from Valdez Scantling on the go route against the Rams. He is building trust with Aaron Rodgers and gives this offense a vertical threat that really they haven't had since prime Jordy Nelson. I think it's the kind of group that could give the Patriots secondary a lot of problems

because Devontae Adams, it hasn't mattered who has been on him over the course of the season. He has faced an absolute gauntlet of corners with Josh Norman and Tredavious White, Xavier Rhodes, Kyle Fuller, and this last week, Marcus Peters, and it hasn't mattered. He has taken all of them and beaten all of them. So Stephon Gilmore is going to have his hands full. And then you have all of these secondary pieces for Green Bay. I mean, I think the Patriots are going to have a hard time with this Packers offense. And I want to I want to swing to that side of the ball for you.

We saw a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday night, this Patriots defense struggled a little bit to contain Patrick Mahomes. They got him off his spot early, rattled him a little bit, forced him into some turnovers. In all likelihood, they're not going to be able to confuse and rattle Aaron Rodgers in the same way. What is your level of concern with this Patriots defense that they're going to be able to stop what should be a pretty explosive Packers offense on Sunday. You know, Peter, it's kind of the million-dollar question facing the Patriots this season. You could even say dating back to last season. Some of their games down the stretch last year

and obviously into the Super Bowl because this defense has at times really sort of struggled to make plays, to get off the field on third-down situations. You mentioned the Sunday night game. They did a good job in the first half of sort of forcing Kansas City to settle for some field goals. They did a lot, you know, typical Bill Belichick style to, you know, try to take away what you do best. And for the Patriots that night, it was Travis Kelsey, sometimes double or triple covering him at times. So, you know, looking ahead to this matchup, obviously, like you said,

you're not going to confuse Aaron Rodgers. It's something that he hasn't seen as a quarterback. So I think the game plan for New England is going to be try to take away Devontae Adams as much as possible. Try to make this become a game where some of the other guys have to sort of beat you. Try to take away what Rodgers might consider his favorite target. And then just, similar to that game against Kansas City,

force them to settle for field goals sometimes. Force them to settle for three instead of seven. Because if New England can do that, you know, chances are they'll be able to score enough one way or another to come off victorious. But if Green Bay's able to get the ball into the end zone, able to finish off drives, you know, that's going to be a huge problem for this Patriots as a team, you know, looking ahead to Sunday night. Yeah. And as I look back at 2014, the last time these two teams met up, it is still what I

think the magnum opus of Mike McCarthy as a coach. I think it's the best coached game he has ever had. And Bill Belichick said as much after. I mean, he basically said, I don't know why Mike McCarthy is not considered among the best coached game he has ever had. And Bill Belichick said as much after, I mean, he, he basically said, I don't know why Mark Mike McCarthy is not considered among the best coaches in the league because he's, he's really good. And it was a game where, um, the Patriots said, we're not going to let Jordy Nelson beat us. And so Devante Adams, it was his breakout game as a rookie. And if he catches a ball that was in his hands, the Packers probably win that game by double digits because it would have it would have made it a two score game. In

fact, I think at the time it would have made it a 15 or a 16 point game. I can't remember exactly what it was. The Patriots still had a chance to win late and it would not have been as close had he hung on to the ball. They get three instead of seven there. But this Packers offense has more players on it than it did then in terms of the tight end. It's Jimmy Graham instead of Richard Rodgers instead of a rookie and Randall Cobb. It's Randall Cobb, Geronimo Allison, and two rookies plus a deep stable of running back. So I think although Aaron Rodgers was the MVP that year and that offense was more balanced and more effective than this offense has been, I think this offense is actually more talented than that 2014 team. And I guess I'm wondering what you think the approach from New England is going to be when

it comes specifically to Aaron Rodgers in the pocket because in that 2014 game there was a lot of mush rush keep Rodgers in the pocket don't let him beat us outside the pocket well with Rodgers hurt do you think that's the game plan this week I think in a sense it will be mostly, Peter, because that's been New England's sort of approach to a lot of the quarterbacks that they've faced this year. New England has faced a schedule with a lot of mobile quarterbacks, and part of that reason might be just we're seeing more mobility at the quarterback position just league-wide, but you're talking about playing guys like Deshaun Watson in week one. You get Blake Bortles with some athleticism in week two. Obviously, Mahomes.

Mitchell Trubisky as well. And so they're going up against a stable of quarterbacks that have, you know, given them problems in the past. New England has notoriously struggled with mobile quarterbacks. They've struggled in sort of those scramble drill type situations. And so I think similar to that game in 2014, you are going to see more of a concerted effort to sort of, you know, even though Rodgers may be hurt, still, you know, keep him in the pocket. Don't let him sort of extend the places he can right now.

You know, historically over his career, Rodgers has done such a great job sort of in those scramble drill type situations. And so I think that's, you know, definitely going to be a focus of New England from the defensive standpoint. You know, Peter, one question I did want to ask you from Dave Archibald over in our Locked on Patriots Slack channel. He's fascinated by the idea of points per drive. And, you know, he mentions that, you know, the Packers are 16th in points per drive

with, like you said, an extremely talented offense. And David wonders, you know, is it red zone struggles? Are they part of it? What could be the reason there for sort of Green Bay being maybe in the middle of the pack and points per drive, despite having struggles because they've been one of the best teams in the league at um avoiding three and outs they've been very good at at creating um yardage on drives they've moved the ball on drives but it's been a an issue of not just in the 20 but i would say you know we talk about sometimes you'll hear coaches talk about the green zone inside the 35 right that has really been where the offense has bogged down

and i think the reason for that is twofold number one aaron rogers traditionally the most effective and efficient red zone he's the best red zone quarterback ever and we don't have to get into any goat debates you look at the numbers they are overwhelming when he gets close to the goal line all he does is create for his team and part of that has to do with his athletic ability and his ability to extend plays and and that hasn't been there when when you look at um what he's been able to do considering his limitations with the injuries. And so I think that's a big part of it. Not having Jordy Nelson is also a part of it because they were players that were always on the same page

and always on those second reaction plays. That was where Jordy Nelson was still valuable to Green Bay, despite the fact that his athleticism had really waned. And that's just I think that's just a factor of Jimmy Graham is not fully acculturated into this team yet, not fully assimilated. And then the rest of these guys are young. Um, Randall Cobb's injury has been a big part of it because he and Devante Adams are really the two guys Aaron Rogers trusts in the red zone. When you look at points per red zone trip and touchdowns per red zone trip, the Packers are 22nd in points and 21st in touchdowns. They're not scoring enough touchdowns when they get into the red zone. So this could, as you mentioned, play into the Patriots' hands when you're saying force them into three instead of seven.

I want to ask about the Patriots' offense, though, because for much of Monday night, they did not look like an explosive team. And even when they created some big plays, it came in difficult ways. It took, you know, a remarkable Rob Gronkowski catch along the sidelines to get them into, and a review of that call to get them down there. It doesn't seem like Gronk is moving the same way. Assess for me where this offense is and can they still consistently generate big plays you know peter it's been a struggle for this offense even though they've you know prior to last week they were going through a stretch where they were scoring you know 40 38 43 they were putting up

points but it wasn't coming easy it's not a big play production type offense right now they've got some isolated big plays here and there they They had one, for example, against Chicago on a 55-yard catch-and-run from Josh Gordon. But they're not really a big strike offense. And, you know, at times throughout the Brady-Belichick era, they've had that ability, particularly with Randy Moss. But for the most part, it's been an offense that's, you know, going to do what they can in terms of taking what the defense gives them.

And if they're going to give them underneath routes, they'll'll take that if they're going to give them quick outs along the sideline they'll take that the one thing that you know buffalo was able to do on monday night which is something that you know the patriots and tom brady in particular have sometimes struggled with is they did a lot in terms of dropping into coverage and trying to take away some of those you know intermediate routes those seam routes those those dig routes that Tom Brady really likes to throw. And it's a game plan that sort of harkens back to the Rex Ryan days when Ryan was first with Baltimore as a defensive coordinator and later with the Jets or the Bills,

where Ryan would try so hard to sort of constrict the middle of the field and take away those throwing lanes where Tom Brady likes to put the football and force him to either check it down or throw towards the boundaries or deep where look as good as he is as a quarterback Tom Brady much prefers to throw those option routes in the middle of the field than he does you know pushing it down you know downfield in the vertical passing game and that's one of the things that Buffalo was able to do another thing that Buffalo was able to do at times is sort of get Brady unsettled in the pocket. Kyle Williams is their defensive tackle. Buffalo's defensive tackle, who has been kind of a Patriots killer over the past couple of years. He's able

to get pressure on Brady working against Joe Thune or Shaq Mason, one of the Patriots guards, or the other one. Mason got hurt. He was out for a little bit last night as well with a calf injury. That's going to be a big thing to watch because he's probably New England's best offensive lineman overall. And if he can't go, that's going to be a problem. So it was sort of that combination, Peter, of the two things that typically give Brady the most trouble. Taking away those routes in the middle of the field, getting some interior pressure on him that led to some of their struggles as an offense. And like you said, they needed not just a big play from Gronkowski to get their one touchdown offensively,

but a big one from Devin McCourty on the defensive side of the ball to help put that game away. Yeah, and it's interesting. You mentioned Rex Ryan because who was his defensive coordinator in New York but Mike Patton? And Mike Patton now calling the shots for the Green Bay defense. This is an unfamiliar opponent, as Mike McCarthy would say, for the Packers in terms of the Patriots, but it is not an unfamiliar opponent for Mike Pettin. And although it's been a couple years,

he has seen a Tom Brady, Josh McDaniels, Bill Belichick offense before. He's had success against those guys before. Now Brady has gotten him more than his fair share as well. You go back and look at some of those games. I mean, Tom Brady had some five touchdown 300 yard games to now. But I just I wonder if you think there is any there'll be any carryover on either side, whether it's whether it's a positive for Patton or a positive for the Patriots, that there is some familiarity between, you know, coordinator and coach and team? You know, I think that there will be some sort of

carry over from both sides. I mean, from both sides, able to sort of go back to see, you know, some of those previous matchups and say, okay, here's some things that worked, you know, here's some things that maybe didn't work. And here's some things that we can sort of retool I mean I think sort of the main way to think about the New England Patriots offense right now is that while it's always been sort of a matchup driven offense it's been that way even more so this year and I think sort of a key matchup to think about headed into this week is running back James White in the passing game against you know the Green Bay Packers linebackers because as we've seen sort of Gronkowski perhaps struggle a little bit whether it's the ankle that's been bothering him or he's just starting to slow down a little bit there's

you know a lot of mileage on those legs and that body you know we've seen sort of Josh Gordon come in and become somewhat of a focal point of this offense but still maybe he's not the Josh Gordon come in and become somewhat of a focal point of this offense, but still maybe he's not the Josh Gordon of 2013 like people were expecting to see. James White has taken on much more of a role in the passing game. They like to get him isolated on linebackers. Brady will look to him often, particularly on third downs. They love the idea of getting him into space. There was a third and eight play Monday night where they needed a conversion. They threw short of the sticks, but he was able to make a linebacker miss for a much-needed conversion for that Patriots offense. And so if that's sort of the matchup, Peter,

how do you feel about these Packers linebackers against a guy like James White? Well, when you look at the way that the Packers approached taking on the Chicago Bears, for example, with Trey Burton and Tariq Cohen as obvious mismatch problems. They played a ton of dime and even dollar defense where they've got six, seven defensive backs on the field. And they treated Trey Burton as a receiver. They put Josh Jackson, the rookie from Iowa, on him and just said,

you've got that guy. And they were consistently covering Tariq Cohen with safeties and corners. And I think you're going to see a similar approach. This is what the Packers did to the Rams last week. They played a lot of three safety looks with just one traditional linebacker. I think you're going to see even more of that. I think you're going to you may even see, you know, more traditional dime looks as a as a base grouping, especially when James White is in the game, because Green Bay is

not going to let their linebackers consistently get matched one on one with Gronk or James White. And so this was this was something the Packers had success with against Todd Gurley early where they were they were able to stop the run even with light personnel. I think if you're the Packers this week, you have to look at this game and say if they're going to hand the ball to James White or whoever is in the backfield 20, 25 times, God bless them. But we're not going to let Tom Brady beat us by exploiting matchups with a running back or a tight end on a safety or a linebacker, especially because that's just not what Blake Martinez does.

Even Oren Burks, who they drafted to be that guy, I just think they're going to feel more comfortable with a safety or a corner on those guys. And I talked about this on my show earlier in the week, that play to Gronk down the sideline. He doesn't have any separation on EJ Gaines, the Buffalo Bills corner. But what he has is an enormous size and reach advantage. EJ Gaines, 5'9 and a half, about $1.85. Well, now you have Josh Jackson, who's six one

with long arms, great ball skills and who plays more like two or five to ten. That's a much better matchup for Green Bay than what Buffalo had. And in that same jump ball situation, you probably still favor Gronk, right? But it's going to be much more difficult or at least you're going to make life more difficult for Rob Gronkowski. And speaking of Gronk, he hasn't looked healthy all year. Is this a growing concern or maybe it's not even a growing concern that Gronk is just not the matchup monster that he used to be? It seems like right now their preferable matchup nightmare guy is James White, not Rob Gronkowski, which seems crazy to say. Right. It does seem crazy to say, Peter. But I think it is moving from concern to, I'd say, even growing concern and maybe even

a little bit beyond that. Because you're right, Peter. He hasn't looked like the Gronkowski we've known and come to expect. And there are still isolated moments. You know, there were a couple of plays against Buffalo where, you know, they love to sort of go play action and get him isolated on safeties, trying to work downhill. And he's still got the size advantage in a number of situations, you know, against whether it's safeties against some smaller corners where he can use sort of that freakish you know size and reach as you you know so

accurately put it to make plays but the old Gronkowski used to be able to outrun defenders you could put him outside you could go y iso with him and he could outrun linebackers if a team dared to put a linebacker out there or he could even outrun some safeties in those types of situations. He can't do that right now. And whether it's the ankle injury or whether it's the mileage, that's sort of the question that's lingering in the back of Patriots fans' minds. I mean, there are two lingering questions in the back of every Patriots fan's mind right now. How long should he longer with Brady?

And at this point, how much longer with Gronkowski? And from what we've seen this year i mean early in the game you know on one of new england's first two possessions when they had that throw in the out route you know to gronkowski on monday night that was nearly intercepted by matt milano that was only gronkowski's second red zone target of the season and part of that might be scheme you know part of that might be teams trying to say look you know we're not going to let you throw it to rob gronkowski in the red zone and part of it might be teams trying to say, look, we're not going to let you throw it to Rob Gronkowski in the red zone. And part of it might be the fact that he's not getting the consistent separation

that he had been getting for years and years and years. And so it is a sort of growing concern. Peter, sort of to try to round out the conversation here in this matchup between the Packers defense and the Patriots offense, I mentioned the pressure aspect and getting after Brady. If interior pressure is going to be the way to do that who are the guys on Green Bay the Patriots fans might want to be worried about come Sunday night well I think Mike Daniels is the name they're most likely to know but it's not the name that that you should probably be most concerned with, Kenny Clark, who is still just 23 years old, is going to be, Chris Collinsworth,

he's going to have some borderline orgasmic utterances at Kenny Clark, in part because he's a part investor in Pro Football Focus, and the Pro Football Focus numbers love Kenny Clark. But he has been a monster in his last 12 games going back to December. He has eight and a half sacks and over 50 tackles. I mean, just think about those numbers for a true nose tackle. And he's still just 23 years old. He wrecked the game, especially in the first half against the Rams. He is one of the rare interior players who can do that the way that he can. And his athleticism, his strength is really remarkable.

The two of those guys, I mean, what is the MO, Ben, forever when it comes to defenses that have given Brady problems? Pressure him up the middle. Well, the Packers can do that in twofold ways number one is Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark are monsters the second is their their blitz package by passer rating has been the best in football through the first half of the season and one of the ways they do that is they mug that the a gaps they show double a gap pressure a ton and they don't always bring it which is the point, right? You want to be able to disguise that sometimes they'll bring guys off the slot. And the point is to disguise and confuse. You can't let Tom Brady know what's coming,

um, or he's just going to sit back there and pick you apart. I expect they're going to bring that a gap pressure perhaps more often than they have in in some of the previous games, simply because I think that's the best way to attack Tom Brady. And we've seen that from defenses in the past. The Bills didn't blitz him a ton. They were able to get pressure with four and sometimes five guys. I think Green Bay can feel like they can do the same. And to your point earlier, the middle of the field is going to be critical for them. So it's just I think it's going to be one of those great cat and mouse games. This is not just we have to remember this is not Tom Brady against Aaron Rodgers. This is Tom Brady against a Packers defense and Aaron Rodgers against a Patriots defense. And I think both teams have to feel like that advantage is theirs in terms of the quarterback. Obviously, they're two of the best to ever play in terms of how you see this game going.

The Patriots opened as six point favorites, and it's really tough to beat the Patriots at home. But they're also coming off a game where they didn't look that inspiring. Um, they, uh, they, they have some injuries, as you mentioned, whether or not Gronk is fully healthy, what, what the status of Shaq Mason is, how do you see this game going on Sunday? I don't, I don't necessarily need a prediction unless you want to give one, but just handicap this game for me. Yeah, I mean, I'll go prediction at the end of this

just because I've been working my way towards that as we've been working through this conversation, which, Peter, has been an absolutely fascinating conversation on both sides of the ball. I think we've really done a great job getting into this game. I think, as with so many Patriots games this year and I said it even before the Buffalo game on Monday night I was telling my listeners on my show look you know this is going to be a game that is never really going to get a blow get to

the be a blowout even though there was a big number I think 13 13 and a half 14 were some of the numbers I was seeing it's a divisional game on a Monday night that type of atmosphere it's going to be closer than you know that number kind indicates. And I think it ended up being, you know, closer than, you know, a lot of people really expected. I look at this game, you know, I see six. I don't know if, you know, the New England can cover that kind of number, because I think these are two teams that are pretty evenly matched. I think you look at as much as NBC sort of wants to package this as Brady versus Rodgers. It is like you said, Peter, you know, Tom Brady versus this Green Bay

Packers defense. It's Aaron Rodgers versus Brian Flores in this New England Patriots defense. And I think both offenses probably have a little bit of the advantage in those matches. Probably, you know, when you look at when the Packers have the ball, they probably have a bit more of an advantage, you know, when they have the football the Packers have the ball, they probably have a bit more of an advantage, you know, when they have the football, given some of the struggles we've seen from those Patriots defense. But then you get the Bill Belichick factor. And so when you put those things together,

I think this is a field goal type game. You know, I think this is a game that's going to come down to, you know, late into the fourth quarter. I think it's a game that might be very reminiscent of that Sunday night or a couple of weeks ago between Kansas City and New England and particularly when Peter you know you talked so much about how the dime and the dollar packages that the Packers were using against the Rams and other teams you know that's something that New England did with Kansas City you know in the build-up to that game they had used their sort

of 3-2-6 package sparingly against Ryan Tannehill he had just two pass it attempts against that look three pass it attempts by Matthew Stafford against that look. But then the week prior, Andrew Luck threw 36 passes against New England's 3-2-6 look as they were getting ready to use that against Kansas City. And so it might be sort of the new flavor of teams, you know, saying, look, you know, if you want to hand the ball off, great, fine, but we're going to have six, seven defensive backs on the field to take away what you do best we might see a ton of that again on Sunday night so as far as a prediction Peter I'll go 34 31 New England I am a Pats guy so I gotta pick my guys here but I think this is

going to be one of those sort of instant classic type games but that's me what about you so i think you're absolutely right i think this is a field goal game it was 26 21 in 2014 and i think we're looking at a similar type thing i actually don't think it's going to be as high scoring as you specifically because i think both teams are going to play um those light package personnels i think green bay with aaron jones now they have a back that they feel comfortable if you're gonna if you going to have a five or a six man box, Aaron Rogers is going to, he's happy to hand the ball off. So I think there may be fewer possessions in this game than, than maybe people think. I think there may be more prolonged drives, fewer big plays. And so that leads me to a more like a 27-24 Patriots score. I think that could be the situation where maybe we get a similar game to what happened last week for the Packers.

And that is instead of Aaron Rodgers with the ball and two minutes left, it's Tom Brady with the ball and two minutes left. And we've seen that movie many times before. I think this is a field goal game. Yeah, 27-24 Patri, is what I have. Fair enough, Peter, just a fantastic, fantastic conversation. I truly enjoyed it. Let the lockdown Patriots fans and listeners here know where they can find you and the great work you're doing. So I am, uh, I am at Acme packing company.. I cover the NFL myriad locations. You can also find me at Dime Magazine,

Uprock Sports, Pro Football Weekly, and a host of other places, SB Nation, the main site. You can also follow the podcast on Twitter at LockedOnPackers if you want. Follow me on Twitter at Peter underscore Bukowski. Of course, I'm always there. And maybe some Patriots fans want to hit up. We have our version of the Locked on Patriots Slack channel.

We have the Locked on Packers fan hotline. And that's not just reserved for Packer fans. We've had some other fans send in their comments here. The number for that is 920-341-3775. And while we're at it, why don't you let my fans know where they can find more of the work that you're doing? Oh, thanks, Peter. And again, just a tremendous conversation. The easiest way to keep up with me is at Mark Schofield on Twitter.

Places I contribute include InsideThePylon.com, Pro Football Weekly as well. Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Portfolio. Big Blue View, part of the SB Nation family of websites, and as well as the Minnesota Golden Gophers. I cover them for the Rivals website at Minnesota Rivals on Twitter. And of course, I do host the Locked on Patriots podcast. This was great.

I'm glad we got a chance to connect. And I think we're in for a really good game on Sunday. I think that way too, Peter. I think it's going to be a fantastic game. Whatever the result, you can bet that both Peter and myself will have it covered for you either late Sunday night or early Monday morning as that game gets underway and as that game concludes. Until next time, everybody, keep it locked to both of these shows, Locked on Patriots

and Locked on Pat.