Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - LOCKED ON PATRIOTS - Sept. 7, 2016 - Eric Rowe in, Josh Kline out, what it means this week and for the season

Episode Date: September 7, 2016

The Boston Herald's Jeff Howe breaks down the wild trade between the Patriots and Eagles, as well as what it means for this week and the remainder of the season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Big stuff happening with the Patriots in the last 24 hours. You know that saying, if the weather changes, wait five minutes. If you're bored by the Patriots, just wait five minutes, because something is going to come along that's going to make you say, you know what, I'm not sure I've ever seen that before. Quite frankly, because that has never happened before. For the first time that I can recall and I've been covering the team since 2009 a trade fell apart because another team was trying to basically

turn it into a three-way trade as you know I'm sure unless you were buried on the far side of the moon over the last 24 hours the Patriots have consummated a trade acquiring cornerback Eric Rowe from the Eagles in exchange for a fourth round pick at one point on Tuesday Josh Klein was heading to the Eagles and up until Wednesday morning really just before I recorded this podcast the Eagles were supposed to be sending a conditional pick to the patriots or excuse me the patriots were sending a conditional pick to the eagles a fourth rounder that could become a third rounder if eric rowe hit certain playing time standards but the eagles announced that as a straight fourth rounder this trade has basically changed terms so many times i'm surprised that

the patriots didn't wind up with sam Bradford and Brian Stork didn't go to the Eagles but hey whatever this is what it's come down to it's a fourth round pick in 2018 for Eric Rowe we'll get to the Eric Rowe stuff in a second let's start off with Josh Klein and what happened there this was the when a trade falls apart or in this case didn't completely fall apart you immediately think okay the guy didn't pass a physical especially for josh klein who had off-season shoulder surgery and wasn't playing well this summer you wondered if that was lingering well then it came out uh later tuesday night i reported that josh klein never even left foxborough so you can't take a physical if you don't leave

your house so it wasn't that then i started to hear something from one source that i didn't report until i got a second source wednesday morning because again i had never heard of such a thing but this is what happened this is why the klein thing fell through the eagles thought they had a plan in place to trade josh klein to another team for whatever was going to come back probably just a conditional pick but who knows whatever was coming back the eagles already had the conversations that the patriots clearly didn't have with another team for klein and they thought they were going to be able to swing klein and bring an asset back to philadelphia whatever team they were talking with

had since lost interest in the deal and that became dead so the eagles called the patriots and said hey thanks but no thanks on josh klein you can keep him trade still going through the pick for eric rowe but klein can stay in new england the patriots meanwhile have to sit here and say all right they already have a 53 man roster set if they trade for eric rowe they have to get rid of one player to stay at the 53 man limit and very very very very early on wednesday morning that turned out to be josh klein so they are releasing josh klein and the trade is now official but again i've never heard of another team and maybe something like this has happened under the radar. Maybe I'm just having gigantic brain fart.

It's been known to happen, but I, I, again, I've never heard of a team trying to trade for a guy and then flipping him for somebody else. And I think maybe there's a natural reaction out there. If you're,

if you're thinking about this from a Patriots perspective, Hey, why weren't the Patriots trying to shop Josh Klein to whatever mystery team that happened to be well look Josh Klein is let's let's be frank here Josh Klein was a good player last year but it's not like the Patriots are going to call all 32 or the other 31 teams and say hey you interested in Josh Klein we're trying to move him right now uh you I think you probably want to uh economize some of these conversations so whatever happens uh Josh Klein was not wanted by three teams in the matter of just a few hours now he's a free agent and it was a tough summer for Klein uh I've said this

before and this might be the last time I'll have to say it Josh Klein was the Patriots best lineman last year through 10 games. Then he suffered a shoulder injury. He played through it for the final two months of the season, and he needed surgery this offseason. That surgery cost him a handful of months. He missed the entire offseason workout program, and he started slowly in training camp.

So it was a pretty severe shoulder injury that he played through last year. I like to give a guy the benefit of the doubt when that happens. It makes plays like Dante Hightower's tackle of Marshawn Lynch at the one-yard line in Super Bowl XLIX all that more impressive when you can go out there and play under those conditions. Josh Klein just got a contract extension in November, a $750,000 signing bonus. He was going to be a restricted free agent. Young player who had yet to really make his mark in the league wanted to keep playing of course the Patriots had all sorts of issues on the offensive line Klein's performance while playing through that injury was part of those issues but it was

a situation where he wanted to help his team and the team was willing to let him go out there and play so I do get annoyed when a guy like Klein gets criticized. For not playing well down the stretch last year. Because of what he played through. So either way. Last year and this year. Are two completely separate entities. And Bill Belichick has separated the two.

With plenty of players in the past. Klein didn't have a good start. Didn't have a good summer. Good training camp. A good preseason and that's why he was ultimately expendable uh here midway through week one but it you know tough to see the guy take such a rapid decline there and there are teams with offensive line issues the Giants who just saw Klein last week I wouldn't be surprised if they took a look at him

just trying to fortify their line, which is just a complete mess. Klein will probably find work. The Patriots did not close the door on a reunion down the line if, for whatever reason, Klein can't find work. But right now, the Patriots have depth on the offensive line.

I'll get to that depth in a second. I mentioned, this podcast is brought to you by my bookie.net football season is here of course it's week one pats cardinals sunday night in arizona university of phoenix stadium patriots are making their big return last time they left there they were showered in confetti as super bowl 49 champs i've already talked about that super bowl uh without even realizing that we were going to get right back to it. Anyway, football season's here, so get in the action and play like the pros at MyBookie.net. It's the most exciting online experience for sports fans, and MyBookie features real Vegas odds

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Use the promo code PATRIOTS to be entered into their million-dollar prize pool. You could also call 844-722-2387 if you are among the people who still has a landline and doesn't know how to use a cell phone, or if you just want to make a call on that cell phone. Maybe you feel like your cell phone company isn't providing their end of the bargain because you're texting all the time and you want to use up some of their airweaves you can call 844-722-2387 and join the thousands of online players that are already playing only the biggest only the best only at my bookie sign up today so getting back to Klein in the offensive line now at the top of the offensive line who knows maybe they still need work we're gonna find out in very short order here as the Patriots make that

trip to Arizona but their offensive line is looking like we know Nate Solder at left tackle Joe Tooney at left guard David Andrews at center if healthy Shaq Mason at right guard and then Marcus Cannon at right tackle that leaves backups Jonathan Cooper and Ted Karras as interior backups and then you've got well Adrian Waddle excuse me Adrian Waddle and Cameron Fleming as your backup tackles the client trade doesn't impact the tackles, so we'll ditch those guys for right now. Jonathan Cooper began practicing, I don't know, about a week and a half ago, steadily progressing.

And Ted Karras had some issues during his preseason slate there, especially with the first team. Absolutely got run over a couple times against the panthers they have a good front but still ted karras has some room to grow he's a fringe 53 man roster slash practice squad player who i think has the potential to grow into a nice player but isn't there yet so that really leads me to believe that jonathan cooper uh is probably ready to go out there and play. And also, just as likely, I would think Shaq Mason is going to try to gut it out with a club on his broken right hand. He practiced again on Tuesday with protection on that broken right hand.

But that's a total unknown. If you've listened to Locked On Patriots and heard me talk about Mason and the club, teams, players don't really truly know how they're going to play with a club on their hand until they go out there and do it. J.J. Watt has struggled in the past last year against the Patriots when he broke his hand the week before practice. Maybe a different circumstance because the pain was still there quite a little more than it probably is for Mason mason you know justin coleman struggled last year with the club to the point where he just had to ultimately shut it down

for a couple weeks before he could come back into the lineup so there are some players who can do it there are some players who can't we'll find out with mason but with mason having going into a game with that injury and assuming still having some type of cast on his hand playing the Cardinals, you'd think that Jonathan Cooper and Ted Karras would both be ready. Because you can't go into that game with just one backup without knowing what Shaq Mason can give you. Now, let's say for the rest of this exercise, Shaq Mason's good. He's going to be able to play the entire game. If David Andrews goes down, you don't have a true center on the depth chart behind Andrews.

Brian Stork was traded, then not traded, then released. But Brian Stork is not in the equation. Ted Karras has played center. Jonathan Cooper is not a center so in my opinion it now while it would be easiest to just say all right David Andrews goes down Ted Karras just steps in you keep Tony at left guard and Mason at right guard I happen to think that because Joe Tooney is getting some work at center also, including during Tuesday's practice, if you lose David Andrews, do you want Ted Karras to go in there because he's a natural center,

or he can be more of a natural center, or do you want to make sure that your three best interior linemen are on the field at the same time and try to play it from there? So that, in my opinion, if I I were doing it assuming that this idea isn't crazy and Joe Tooney is capable to play center you put Tooney at center you put Shaq Mason at left guard and Jonathan Cooper at right guard and you know what if the Patriots believe that Cooper can play left guard and they want Mason at right guard that's fine too but that's why I put those three out there instead of Ted Kis and i leave ted caris

on the bench because you know the combinations aside that gives you your best three offensive linemen out there on the fields and would josh klein have helped would josh klein have been your backup center yeah probably uh but the patriots released him the patriots saw that josh klein had declined for whatever whatever happened this summer yeah the guy just didn't repeat the same level of play maybe the shoulder is worse than he's letting on i was told it wasn't really a big deal he was okay but we only have what we can go on and that was a performance that just hadn't been ideal for josh klein so now

the other thing the patriots have to look at down the road here trey jackson is on the pop list so he's out the first six weeks of the season eligible to begin practicing in week seven and the patriots could elevate him as early as week seven if they wanted him in game action. Had off-season knee surgery. Haven't been told one way or the other what the exact timeline is going to be. But I do know about a week and a half before the preseason ended, they started to accelerate Trey Jackson's workload in terms of conditioning stuff. So he has been improving and has been improving recently.

So that gives them an extra body down the line. If they need Trey Jackson, they also have Chris Barker on the practice squad so they can elevate him. If they get through the week and say, Oh, you know what? Shaq Mason isn't ready. You need an extra body.

You need to elevate Chris Parker, Chris Barker. So that gives them just an extra option there an emergency guard if they need to bring a guy up by the end of the week without taking up a spot in the 53 so again just to recap the most common issue i've heard on twitter with the trade is it takes away their offensive line depth again you know how many teams have great great depth and if josh klein isn't the josh klein from the first 10 games of last season then that depth i don't think was really affected now if josh klein is able you know let's say he

was just in a funk let's say he was just banged up and needed some time to heal and a handful of weeks as a backup would have afforded him the time to grow then yes that trade would be a stranger one in my opinion but i don't know that so that's just a guess that's just a projection and speculation if josh klein was the josh klein from the first 10 games of last season he would be the best backup guard in the league right now but that has not been the case over the last six weeks since the patriots reported for training camp so that's why they moved on they did save some cap room there too uh right around a million and change or whatever it was uh if memory serves that $750,000 signing bonus uh was they had to eat $500,000 of that for cap purposes this year in dead money so that's not as big of a savings right now uh just

because they'd eat that money but that's that's not why they they cut Josh Klein so moving forward to the Eric Rowe portion of the trade and that's going to help me jump off into this Cardinals game too. Eric Rowe was a second-round pick last year. The Patriots clearly liked him coming out of the draft, and their draft notes on Rowe are still fresh. He also played well against the Patriots last year when the Eagles came in here to Gillette Stadium and shocked them later in the season.

Rowe was a disappointment in Philadelphia. Two systems in two years doesn't help. And some guys just don't fit in certain systems. And I mean, look at what they're going, look what's going on in Tennessee right now. I mean, they're cutting everybody from the pass regime. These things tend to happen. So, you know, Rowe hasn't lived up to the second round hype

because you look at that and you say you know one side of the argument is if you're a second round pick you should be able to play cornerback in just about any system but really who knows i'm not going to pretend that i know everything that's going on in philadelphia i just know that he wasn't a good fit for the new regime and he was going to start the season on the bench so the eagles were looking to get something in return for him and the patriots only being what 17 months removed from the pre-draft process thought that eric rowe was worth taking a chance on you then look at that and say all right what is eric rowe going to do for this defense right now? Maybe not much. It's going to take him some time to learn the system. And hey, there's no given that he's going to be a fit in the Patriots system too.

But again, when you go back to the pre-draft work that is still really fresh, you have to have an idea that Eric Rowe is going to be a fit for you. He is a versatile defensive back. He can play corner. He can play safety. If you're looking at this with the long-term future in mind because he's signed through as a let's see as a 2015 draft pick he's signed through 2018 so he's going to give the Patriots three seasons of work here

Logan Ryan is up after this year Daron Harmon is up after this year don't give me the Malcolm Butler crap he's a restricted free agent he's going to be around for two more years. But they have, they might need to fill a need if Ryan and Harmon walk, which is a very real possibility because if the Patriots do what they should be doing and they re-sign Dante Hightower and Jamie Collins and maybe Jabal Sheard and others, then Ryan and Harmon become a little more expendable, especially after pumping a second-round pick into Cyrus Jones and having some other young guys that they like in their system too.

But anyway, let's not get too far off track. The row fit could be as a corner. It could be as a safety. I heard one comparison that he's a more physical version of Devin McCourty which is interesting because McCourty's a pretty physical guy and they can play Rowe in the box that led me to believe if he wants if he can play as an in the box safety call it a slot corner and in the box safety wherever he he want. I mean, just think Patrick Chung right now. So Patrick Chung goes down. Rowe gives them more depth because Jordan Richards had a disappointing summer, second round pick from last year. So I wonder if, all right, if Chung goes down

and you lose your guy who is good at covering tight ends, what's your next play? If you want to have a defensive back covering tight ends you move Devin McCourty into the box and have him take on that role and then you've got Daron Harmon as your deep safety so you've still got two you've got one guy who is a pro bowler and another guy in Harmon who is absolutely a capable starter and with how much the Patriots play three safeties. Daron Harmon is a starter, in my opinion, in my viewpoint. But if either one of those guys goes, you know what, let's not get to that point yet. If the Patriots still want to play their three safety sets, and a Chung goes down, or a McCourty goes down, or even a Harmon goes down,

you've got Eric Rowe who can step in and do something that can help you facilitate that loss for the time being. Maybe it's not perfect because, you know, Harmon and McCourty and Chung have been doing it together for a while, but it still might be better than what Richards gives you. So, I mean, if Harmon goes down, you can still have McCourty as your deep guy. You can see if Rowe can play the middle of the field in some capacity if the Patriots play too deep because you don't want Chung out in space that's just not where he is suited to give you his best football you want him as close to the line as of

scrimmage as possible and and ditto for McCourty because there are times when Harmon roams center field and you've got McCourty and Shun both in the box in a different type of sub package so Rowe gives you a little more versatility there so for now I guess I'm just going to call him a defensive back because I don't know if he's going to be a corner or a safety in this system but I wouldn't be surprised to see him do a lot of work over the middle of the field but we'll see I mean Bill Belichick comes out and says hey we'll see bring him in we'll see how he fits our system we'll see how it goes you know that's genuine that's not because bill belichick wants to dodge the question it's because you can project all you want but you just never know i mean look at barkevious mingo last week he was started off

in practice as a outside linebacker in three, four drills, and probably, quite possibly, played his best football as an inside linebacker in the nickel against the Giants. And was playing poorly as an inside linebacker with Cleveland, by all accounts. So you just never know. You don't know how these guys are going to fit once they get into your system and you can see them practice and you can figure out what their strengths are and this last point here before we sign off for the day uh this using this as a jumping off point i wanted to mention this at some point uh going into the pats cardinals game anyway and the the versatility in in the secondary is a good way to get into it. I'm really interested to watch how Bill Belichick uses his cornerbacks

and safeties against the Cardinals, because they have one of the best spread offenses in the league, and it yields some intriguing matchups. Now, the Patriots were in the nickel 61% of the time last season and they were in the three safety nickel about a third of those nickel snaps so they love to use three safeties some of that was by necessity because they had so many injuries at their third cornerback spot throughout the season that harman was better than whatever cornerback they were going to trot out as their third guy I think part of that is why they drafted Cyrus Jones so early this year so what are the Patriots going to do here you start of course with Malcolm Butler and Logan Ryan is Malcolm

Butler going to follow you know if you put Malcolm Butler on their best receiver that's Larry Fitzgerald but the Patriots used Logan Ryan on bigger guys last year Andre Johnson Demarius Thomas Fitzgerald fits that mold a little bit so or more than you know if you're going to continue to carry over that tendency so that makes me think you start Logan Ryan on Larry Fitzgerald and there were times last year okay you just say all right well Logan Ryan's your second best corner you put Ryan in a safety on Fitzgerald boom done easy that's not what the Patriots did with Logan Ryan and Demarius Thomas last year and now Fitzgerald's better than Thomas and I think we kind of learned a lot about Thomas last year he was a lot softer than any of us

probably expected him to be unless who knows maybe you're a listener in Denver and you've known this all along but from you know for my perspective I didn't realize Demarius Thomas was was that soft and could be taken away by Logan Ryan and Logan Ryan alone but he did not get safety help which was kind of one of those things that people fell into getting that laziness of it you just assumed because he was your second best corner, he was getting safety help over to Mary Soms. He shut him down by himself, and that was a really good performance by him. So I think Logan Ryan and Larry Fitzgerald is going to be your first matchup. That would leave, again, I would think, Malcolm Butler for John Brown

because Brown is the faster type. He's not like Antonio Brown but use Antonio Brown in that sort of you know body build in athleticism or T.Y. Hilton or Emmanuel Sanders and that's why I'm thinking Butler and Brown and that gives the uh but the one thing that i have in the back of my head there for about a half a half plus against the colts last year the patriots used patrick chung on ty hilton and chung did well part of that is because the colts didn't test that matchup too much but i wonder is that going to be in the plans again because the cardinals don't have any tight ends you know jermaine gresham is their best tight end they don't have a tight end who scares you if if their

tight end catches a pass or two over the course of Sunday night's game you say all right whatever you know what so be it it wasn't Fitzgerald it wasn't John Brown uh and it wasn't Michael Floyd so no big deal there right uh and who you, it wasn't the running back, David Johnson, who's another really legitimate target. So do you use Patrick Chung on Brown and then give him another safety over the top? Or if you use Chung on Brown, that gives you the ability to try it out to Ron Harmon and Devin McCourty and use both of those guys in more of a cover two situation. So that means you can put McCourty on use both of those guys in more of a cover two situation so that means you

can put McCourty on one side Harmon on the other you put you know McCourty and let's say just McCourty and Chung on Brown and then you've got Harmon and Ryan on Larry Fitzgerald and then you put Malcolm Butler on Michael Floyd and you just kind of leave him be so then you can double up their two best receivers and then you use your best corner on their third option and that allows Jamie Collins and Dante Hightower one of those guys can take a tight end the other one can take David Johnson if he tries to slip out of the backfield so that's why i'm really intrigued all right if you can use chung on brown that gives you the ability to double up their two best outside options and it might not be the most natural matchup they might not do it at all but as my mind wanders in the days leading up to the

game that was you know one of my more intriguing thoughts at least as i intrigued my own mind again the more natural matchup you're probably looking at malcolm butler and john brown logan ryan and larry fitzgerald and then that leads me to my final point is it cyrus jones or justin coleman on michael floyd floyd's a bigger guy and i think Coleman has slightly more range more vertical range than Jones so this could be a situation where okay Cyrus Jones might be there or it's probably in my opinion is their best third cornerback he's better than Justin Coleman and I think Cyrus Jones deserves more playing time than Coleman but if Coleman is a better physical matchup for Michael Floyd then Coleman might get the early nod.

I'd still try to give Cyrus Jones the opportunity to go out there and cover Michael Floyd, but I'm just trying to take you through the different options and what's going on in Bill Belichick's mind. I don't think you're going to see Eric Rowe out there unless something goes off the rails or he comes out and has the greatest week of practice that anybody's ever seen. So again, you could probably keep Eric Rowe out of the equation, off the rails or he comes out and has the greatest week of practice that anybody's ever seen so again you could probably keep eric rowe out of the equation but as the patriots try to fit seven defensive backs into their nickel and i'm talking three safeties with mccordy chung and harman and then four corners with butler ryan jones and coleman they've got a bunch of different combinations

that they can pursue and if uh if you know if they don't end up going or if they go with the more conventional look let's say butler brown and then fitzgerald's and ryan that means you're probably looking at jamie collins on the tight end or excuse me patrick chung in the tight ends and then you've got, let's say, Jamie Collins making sure David Johnson doesn't slip out of the backfields. And then you've got Dante Hightower as your guy in the middle who can roll a little more. You can really interchange either one of those linebackers with these responsibilities. But the point is, you've got the eighth best rushing team in the league from a season ago so you don't you don't want to make sure you divert all your attention to the passing game

so if you go with the more traditional matchup that i'm talking about at least that gives you a guy in the box a linebacker in the box who can help you a lot more against the run so there are pluses and minuses to each combination that i just listed there. But I think whatever Bill Belichick decides to choose and go with here, you've got an opportunity to see what Bill Belichick thinks of his defense and his secondary in particular. So one more time, one final time, this podcast was sponsored by MyBookie.net. And as you know, football season, right around the corner.

It's starting up tomorrow night, Super Bowl rematch. I'm looking forward to it. My wife, not thrilled that she's about to lose her Thursday night TV privileges. But hey, such is life. We're living in a football household. Get in the action and play like the pros at mybookie.net. It's the most exciting online experience for sports fans.

MyBookie features real vegas odds and incredible player props on every single football game the game's already kicked off my bookie has live in games with odds updated that are in real time easy for me to say never too late to make a play it's optimized for smartphone users for non-stop action on the go go online type my bookie in your browser and sign up today and use the promo code that again is just for you guys my lockdown patriots listeners use the promo code patriots to be entered into their multi or their million dollar prize pool i'm giving away more money than i should be their million dollar prize pool pool or call 844-722-2387 that's 844-722-2387 join the thousands of online players already playing only the biggest only the best only at my bookie that's locked Locked On Patriots for Wednesday, September 7th. I'm Jeff Howe of the

Boston Herald. Make sure you check out our big season preview section in today's Herald. It's also online at bostonherald.com. Tons of good stuff out there. I'll see you guys on Thursday. Is democracy in danger or decline? Condoleezza Rice, William Galston, and Carlos Gutierrez and others take on this question in the fall edition of The Catalyst, a journal of ideas from the Bush Institute. Surveys show Americans place less trust in institutions like the media and business. Others contend America has faced far more challenging periods and emerged strong. Leading policymakers, Bush Institute experts, and respected journalists take on this debate. Read about it at bushcenter.org slash catalyst.