Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Locked On Patriots September 13, 2017 - Scouting the Saints with Deuce Windham

Episode Date: September 13, 2017

Deuce Windham from ESPN 97.7 as well as the Canal Street Chronicles joins Mark Schofield to break down the New Orleans Saints and the upcoming meeting between them and the New England Patriots. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Learn more about our healthy benefits at fepblue.org slash get more. You're Locked On Patriots, your daily podcast on the New England Patriots, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome everybody to Locked On Patriots for Wednesday, September 13th. Mark Schofield with you as always in the big chair, bringing you all the Patriots news and notes that you need to get ready for the upcoming slate of games. And we've got a big one this weekend. The Patriots taking the trip to the road, going down to the Big Easy to square off with the New Orleans Saints. And because of that matchup, I have a fantastic guest with me today.

You can hear him on ESPN 97.7 down in Monroe, Louisiana. He is a film analyst for them. You can find him on YouTube. He does incredible work. Search YouTube for New Orleans Film Study. He breaks down what the Saints are doing on both sides of the football. He's also contributed to Canal Street Chronicles. Does some great work over there.

He is Deuce Windham. Also came in third in the Scouting Academy Proving Competition, which was a competition done by Dan Hatman, a guest on this show, where he had Scouting Academy students, had their reports submitted and graded by former NFL scouts and coaches. He came in third, a tremendous accomplishment. Deuce Windham, welcome in, my friend. How are you? I'm doing great, man. I feel like you've kind of pumped me up with that long intro there, man. I feel like I got to deliver tonight. No, you're

going to deliver, man. I know. And believe me, I was looking for a Saints guest to have on, and more than one person recommended you as the perfect guy to have in so I'm pretty excited to have you in with me man so let's get into it and open tonight Monday night Saints go up to Minnesota and they drop a somewhat close contest what were your initial impressions from what you saw from the Saints on Monday night well I think the biggest thing for me, and I'll admit I felt prey to this as well, we watched the preseason, the defense looked much improved, and I still think talent-wise the improvement's definitely there. I think anybody who watches football can see that the talent's improved, but man, that secondary is still so young. I pointed out on my show that of the four

starters, and I count the nickel corner as a starter in today's NFL. So as the four starters in that area, three corners, one safety, you had six games of combined NFL playtime among four starters. So I mean, a lot of growing pains and some of the biggest struggles was in zone coverage, which you as a guy who studies film a lot knows.

These kids coming out of college, they usually can be really great at man, but rare to find one that can do both well. It's usually a growing pain there. I think we saw that last night against Minnesota. Yeah, let's dive into both sides of the ball then. Being a former quarterback and an offensive guy, I want to start off with Drew Brees.

Watched the game last night. We recorded this on Tuesday. It looked to me like he's still Drew Brees, like he's still a dangerous weapon, like he's still going to be, you know, ready to go up against him. But that was my takeaway. What was your takeaway from seeing Drew Brees on open at night? I think with Drew, we've seen what we've seen for a decade. I mean, the guy's literally been so good that he's underappreciated

and people knock him out of their Tier 1 because he's just Drew. He just puts up stats. But his ability to read defenses, his pinpoint accuracy at 38 years old, his footwork in the pocket. Because let me tell you, the Saints do not have a great offensive line around. They're missing two tackles. Their starting tackles are out, and Max Unger just came back from a severe injury. They are struggling at O-line, and yet they gave up one sack against the Minnesota Vikings defense, which has a phenomenal front seven

with Hunter and Griffin and Tom Johnson. That line is really nice, plus Barr and those guys. So what he can do puts New Orleans in the position to win any given game. He just might not have as many contributors help him out each game, and we saw that against Minnesota. Yeah, and looking at the wide receiver core around him, obviously New England Patriots fans, they're now familiar with Brandon Cooks because of that trade

that went down here in the offseason. But Bree still has some talented weapons. Obviously Michael Thomas, I think, is going to be a premier top top flight wide receiver in the league you know Ted Ginn speed guy Tommy Lee Lewis is another kind of speed guy I think you know that's a group that's okay and they can make some plays down the field but they're not going to really put a ton of pressure on a secondary yeah I think when if it hadn't been for willie sneed suspension the saints are in a much better area i mean the receiver group works in three levels just like

the defense does i mean you've got a flanker that stretches the field you got a split-end guy to help with the intermediates and the tight end will do that but then more importantly you have that slot guy who could be that possession receiver on third downs and as much as i like tommy lewis and that explosive play that he can bring you every now and then again neither of those guys are that possession short yardage situation type guy and i thought it was pretty obvious that that was lacking now the saints did pick up a guy that y'all are familiar with in austin carr he hadn't had enough time to adopt to the playbook to really play any last night, but we might see him get his debut against the Patriots.

If he can provide a little bit more of that third down presence, those underneath crossing patterns and things like that, you might see an improvement in both what Drew Brees is able to do in an output standpoint, but also in terms of the offense not being as one-dimensional in some of these passing routes like we saw against Minnesota yeah do you know you bring up Austin Carr and have you sort of heard anything from the organization any you know talk coming out of the Saints organization like what they've thought about Carr so far and maybe do they think they might get him into the lineup

sooner than we might expect that's tough because I'm Sean Payton I'm sure Bill Belichick's pretty similar but Sean Payton's a guy who likes to keep everything close to the vest, even if it's a minor minor. I knew DT enough to claim him off waivers. I know they were impressed with some of his preseason play, but with that being said, there's no, I can't guarantee that they're leaning to start him or Tommy Lee Lewis or one of the other this upcoming game. I can tell you they liked him. Uh, he probably will see the field with Snead suspended but I

can't give you a guarantee fair enough my friend what about the tight end spot you know it looks to me like you know they bring in Fleener and that didn't quite pan out at least last year I know we saw a couple of targets you know on Monday night but is Fleener going to be the answer there at some point for this team I think with fliener he's such an interesting guy i mean he's that newer flex type tight end he's not an inline blocker i mean he he he's not a tough tight end but he can make some catches that he caught the lone touchdown pass for new orleans this past game but then also i mean he only brought you in 54 yards he wasn't able to separate on the seams that well. So he's kind of a mixed bag. I mean, another guy that the Saints have who they've

been very high on for years is Josh Hill. And he's had injury concerns, but he's more that traditional inline tight end who can also catch those shorter routes. I think with New Orleans, the problem they have a lot of in almost every position is they've got guys who in one facet or the other are good, but they don't have well-rounded players. I think that's how you got to look at Kobe Fleener. He is a really good receiving tight end, but he's not a well-rounded guy. So he's kind of limited in what he can really provide you there. You know, Deuce, one of the things that sort of surprised me a little bit was the lack of success in the run game on Monday night. I mean, I wasn't expecting New Orleans to come out and say, you know, pound the rock

for 150 yards or so on the ground, but I wasn't expecting them to come away with about 35. Were you surprised with the struggles in the run game? And if you weren't, like, were you expecting that given some of the offensive line struggles that you guys had coming in? Like I said, this is once again another type of mixed bag thing. I felt like as the game started, the run game didn't look bad. I mean, you say that and guys are running for like three yards, five yards, but we're also talking about a Vikings defense,

which I'm sure you can agree is a very stout defense up front. You're not going to bust off a lot of runs, especially early in the game. The biggest thing for me was Zach Streif went down early in the game. It's been confirmed he has an MCL sprain, so he'll probably miss until at least the bye week in a few weeks. After that point, you saw the Saints try to power eye it in the red zone to get into the end zone multiple times, and it failed. Then when you start giving up these touchdown passes, you're down two scores. Sean Payton's natural reaction is to go back to the pass

where they are best and most successful. So I don't think it necessarily is the fact that the run game wasn't effective. I mean, they ran 21 times. It's just the nature of the game became what it's been like for the past couple years is the team got down a couple of scores and you simply don't have time, you know, to eat up a minute of clock by running the ball every time. You know, Deuce, you mentioned sort of those red zone struggles, and that was something that struck me as well watching this game. New Orleans gets

into the red zone a number of times, but they were coming away with three instead of seven. You know, the struggles down there, do you think that's a function of the talent at wide receiver being more of an impact on this offense and, you guys at the running back spot was it the inability to run the ball the offensive line like what do you think the reason was for those struggles I think it was a couple things now as far as the offensive line goes the Saints have never been a great offensive line team in terms of running in inside the five and inside the ten they can do it but that's never been their bread and butter their bread and butter has always been the passing game and i think it always will be as long as drew and peyton are in new orleans but i think a lot of it was not necessarily just talent deficiencies but also little things that

you have when you're with the receiver for years in terms of your timing routes and a good example is in the end zone the saints tried to run a rub route with josh hill going on a corner and then they tried to run underneath with ted gin one ted gin did not run a rub route with Josh Hill going on a corner, and then they tried to run underneath with Ted Ginn. One, Ted Ginn did not run a great route. He went too deep into the end zone and ran into a defender. And then also the timing simply wasn't there. Drew through to a spot, which you'll see a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL do. This same play was a touchdown for Brandon Cooks last year.

Flawless. Looked great. This play is a simple ball in the dirt and looks like a very inaccurate pass it's a timing route so i think there's a mixed thing there there is a little bit of a talent drop but it's also you don't have a lot of reps with these guys and that takes time and coincidentally also a problem on that same play you're giving up a significant pass rush so drew breeze isn't able to progress through reeds michael thomas ran a slant route on same play. He's wide open in the back of the end zone on the opposite side of the field. So it's one of those things. There's a couple of things playing into the problems there.

Not to get you Patriots fans too excited, but there are issues here. Look to us, man. You know, Patriots fans, they need a little bit of excitement right now. It's been a long couple of days since that Kansas City game. But, you know, before we shift gears and look at the defense, I got to ask you, Deuce, a lot was made of that sort of glance between Sean Payton, Adrian Peterson. I'm of the mind that, look, you've got competitive guys that want to win and, you know, they would just, you know, you know, maybe Peterson was jawing for the ball, whatever. I don't think it's a big deal. Is it a big deal down there? Is it getting, you know, the attention that it might be getting a little bit on the national level? Is it getting attention? Yeah. Well, well i mean everything gets attention when you've got

high profile guys like you know sean payton who's always been a very vibrant personality let's just leave it that say it that way and then adrian peterson who is of a similar mold but in terms of is it does it mean anything no i mean basically what that ran down to is adrian peterson believe that the saints got away from the inside zone run and they should have run it more. You can make a pro or cons list for that and decide upon yourself. Obviously, the inside zone is what Peterson's familiar with. It's what he ran in Minnesota his last couple years. That's what he wanted.

He wants the ball. Like any good player who feels like he can contribute, he wants the ball. You know, Mark Ingram had something similar last year. That obviously didn't affect because Sean Payton had him run for 1,000 yards. So I just think it's something that is small. It doesn't mean anything. And until I see otherwise, I don't see it as an issue. We're chatting here with Deuce Windham here on Locked on Patriots.

He is your go-to expert for all things New Orleans. Since you've been here on ESPN 97.7 down in Monroe, Louisiana. See his work over at Canal Street Chronicles. We'll have more with him in a second. First, I want to let everybody know here that Locked On Patriots and the Locked On Network has an incredible relationship right now. We're forging with the guys over at Pro Football Focus. You probably know PFF. They do incredible charting work.

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Leave a review on Locked On Patriots over on iTunes. Make sure your Twitter handle is in there and you can win yourself a highly coveted PFF Edge subscription. So check that out, friends. More with Deuce Windham right now. Deuce, let's talk a little bit on the defensive line. Two guys have flashed for me at times last night. One was a little bit maybe of a surprise given his injury history.

Another wasn't really a surprise at all. First, Cameron Jordan, 46.5 sacks over his first six years in the NFL had another one last night he looked pretty good at times to me but what was your takeaway from his life well I mean Cameron Jordan is Cameron Jordan and because of New Orleans not having a lot of success his accomplishments really go unnoticed and unseen if you you mentioned pro football focus who as you, is a great resource. I use them as well. He finishes out as one of the top five

defensive edge rushers every single year. But who knows who Cameron Jordan is besides most people in New Orleans or maybe the MC South? Not many. He's always dominant. He's just as good against the run as he is going against the pass.

He's one of those rare guys on that strong side of the line who's able to rush the passer effectively i mean if the saints would ever get a decent pass rush in two corners to hold it down he would be a double digit set guy like you saw him do in 2013 but we'll see i had to see how his year goes it was interesting to watch him um last night because dennis allen was dropping him back in coverage, which was different. Yeah, don't see that often, do you? Yeah, not often. In fact, it gave me a little bit of scare because Rob Ryan tried to pull the same stuff. All the Ryans love to drop

defensive linemen back into short coverage. I don't know why, but they do. But you mentioned Sheldon Rankins. Rankins is the guy that we've been pretty high on. He played nine games last year, as you mentioned. He was injured, but had four sacks and quite a few pressures. I think with him, he simply has to work on being consistent. I mean, he has plays where he'll come in with this rip move and make any guard look silly. And then he'll have plays where he's gone for three or four plays, and you're wondering, okay, where was that guy from the last drive? And I think a lot of it is just, this is a very, very young defense. There's growing pains.

I really like those two guys, though. And a guy you didn't mention that I think doesn't get enough love. And I love in the trenches. You're probably not a big trench fan as a quarterback. I have nightmares about the trenches, my friend. But Tyler Davidson is one of the rare true one-technique defensive tackles in this league. So if I'm a Patriots fan and I'm looking at y'all's run game, the guy I want to watch is Tyler Davidson.

He moves very well horizontally along the line. You know, he's a one-gapper, so he's not going to eat up both A-gaps or anything. But, man, he's really solid, can get penetration, and can provide a little pass rush when asked, but he's not going to be a three-tech or anything like that. So another guy I really like. The big question mark, of course, is at the end of the line, opposite Cameron Jordan. Kekaha and Okafor, either of those guys going to be able to provide

anything. They didn't do it last night, so I don't know if they're going to do it moving forward. If you're a Saints fan, you got to hope so. Deuce, let me sort of build on something you just brought up with Davidson and Rankins. And and Davidson you said you get that one tech you know Rankins you get that three tech Patriots fans know full well one of the things that frustrates Tom Brady one of the few things that gets to him is interior pressure quickly after the snap do you think Rankins and Davidson can give New Orleans enough of that on Sunday to sort of get Tom Brady off the spot and flustered a bit in the pocket? Do I think they can? Yes. Do I think they will or at least do it consistently enough? I honestly don't know. The talent is there. I mean, if you look and study Sheldon Rankins, he's going to be almost any guard in the league at some point, but he's also going to lose matchups. So

it really depends on how they try to scheme it. One thing that I noticed this past game was Dennis Allen came out. The first pass rushing line you saw was Cameron Jordan, Sheldon Rankins, and then Alex Okafor, and then Haloa Kikaha as their big pass rushing package. I think it can provide some, based on what I watched of the Kansas City game, and Kansas City, whew. Yep.

Yeah, we won't get into that. I'm sure you all have talked about that enough. Unfortunately, but yeah. Oh, man. In similar fashion, though, I believe the Saints can disrupt Tom Brady. Now, I'm not going to try to pull the wool over your eyes and say that this defense is Kansas City's level of defense. It's not. But the thing you have to worry about with new orleans is and i realize you gave up about 400 points to alex smith best game of his career but the saints have

drew breeze so with the new orleans defense you don't have to worry about them stopping you every drive but if they're stopping you every other drive you know that's where you have an issue so if they can have any form of consistency, there is reason for concern. Ways you can bat that, I don't know the Patriots enough, but I would keep a backer in for blocking, and that would really alleviate a lot of that interior rush because the Saints simply don't have enough pass rushers that will help them if you're bringing in extra blockers.

Deuce, before we sort of get to the big picture stuff here in a second looking at this new orleans secondary it seemed to struggle a bit against minnesota feeling had a big game yardage wise digs had the two touchdowns you know it seemed like the vikings were looking after and trying to target davante harris maybe staying away from latimore a little bit but what were your takeaways from the secondary and how do you see that group coming together going forward well um the the bad thing about watching the game is and i think most people who study the game like i do or you do broadcast view sucks yep so i really can't tell you how the corners truly did i see what they do for about two seconds off the line of scrimmage, and then they go out of the frame. So until the all 22 drops, I really can't give a very educated opinion.

I can say that a lot of the big plays I saw is where you see these young corners struggling in zone, which we mentioned earlier during the show. Man coverage, I like what P.J. Williams can do. Marshawn Lattimore, PFF gave him the worst possible grade he can get. I have no idea how they came to that conclusion. I thought he looked really good, especially for his first game. Marcus Williams looked fine. It was mainly two guys, P.J. Williams and Devontae Harris.

And hopefully New England offensive coordinators and scouts aren't listening to this and game planning based off what I just said. But those two names in particular, I mean, Sam Bradford had the best game of his career statistically, and most of that came targeting Harris and his side. So if they can fix that in the short week, I honestly think they're going to have another guy, Ken Crawley, who will probably come in and see snaps more so than Harris based on that performance.

But secondary is suspect. Even to Saints fans, there's no way I can sugarcoat that. That is going to be an issue. If there's no pass rush, Tom Brady could have a heck of a day. Deuce, that game ended about 23 hours ago. You mean to tell me you haven't fully broken down and charted the All-22 yet, man? Well, it hasn't come out yet. I was just giving you a little bit.

Oh. I was just teasing you there, bro. You say that, but all the guys at ESPN always rag me because I watch, you know, they'll say, well, this guy's going to watch the game four or five times. They're making a joke, and I'm like, that's probably not enough because I'll watch it one time for one player. Yeah, no, I mean, it takes a while to go through these games, man. Yeah, people don't realize how much work it is to actually study a player.

Yeah, it's a lot of work. And, you know, as somebody that crushed it at that prove-it competition over at the Scouting Academy, Deuce does the work, man. I know that. So I think the world of what he does. But, Deuce, let's kind of look big picture here as we close this out. One of these teams is going to go to 0-2. Yeah.

And that's not where you want to be in the NFL. There have been studies. There have been statistics. You start 0-2, it's really tough to even get to the playoffs. Now, I think it's an 11% chance to have been statistics. You start 0-2, it's really tough to even get to the playoffs. I think it's an 11% chance to make the playoffs if you start 0-2. And those aren't good numbers. And one of those teams is the road team, and that's the New England Patriots.

What are your expectations for the Saints, the home opener, the atmosphere down there for this game? Well, the thing with New Orleans, it's going to be rocking, especially with it being the first home game. In terms of my expectations, man, I'll say this. And this is after watching New Orleans for three years be a mediocre team. They're the team that goes and takes down Green Bay and looks like a playoff team. And then the next week they give up 40 points.

I honestly don't know. This team could come out looking like they did against the Minnesota Vikings, very stale, not a lot of movement. And they come up and just annihilate the Patriots like they did in 2009. In 2009, they literally pulled cornerbacks off the street who were intercepting Tom Brady. How that happens, no one knows. It's New Orleans voodoo. I don't know what's going to happen Sunday, man.

I believe the Patriots are going to win, so your fans will be happy to hear that. I believe the New England team is just a much better roster overall. But I'll also say traveling, going on the road, going to the Superdome, and Sean Payton, he game plans well at home. I think that you cannot underestimate it, and maybe that's part of the problem that New England had with Kansas City. There's a little bit of underestimation. You thought you were going to get more than you bargained for.

I'll also say that a lot of New England thought they were getting something from Cooks that he does not have, and that's open field vision. He's just a burner. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. Main big picture, though, either team can win. I would side with the Patriots if I'm a betting man,

but don't undersell the Saints either. The Saints are known for playing that upset card, and they like to play up to better opponents, especially offensive opponents like the New England Patriots. Deuce, what's one thing that could happen, say, early in this game, whether it's a turnover or a big play on offense or something that, you know, when you're sitting there watching this game from wherever it is, you might be like, uh-oh, okay, this is going to be one of those days

where New Orleans does that, does, you know, pull off that upset type thing. Like, what's something that could get you starting to think that this is a game that they're going to pull out? I think the main thing is New Orleans in the past few years has a tendency to do this historically. First drive, they march down the field and score points. Second drive, and they did this almost every second drive last year, second drive is a three and out. So if the Saints go and march first drive, score points. Second drive, and they did this almost every second drive last year, second drive is a three and out.

So if the Saints go and march first drive, score points, whether it's seven or three, doesn't matter. If they come out in their second drive and they also march down the field and score, if I'm a New England fan, I worry, because that means they just bucked their trend. They figured something out, and they know something that's going on with that Patriot defense. Because, as you know, most coaches come in with a pre-scheduled game plan of, say, a

package of 15 plays. And that's why a lot of first drives are successful. You spend all week long figuring out what 15 plays are going to get me down the field. After those plays are used and you're in the second drive, if they're still marching, I think the Saints have found that they have an advantage over your team. That, to me, is the key. That's fantastic. Folks, when I took over here at Locked On Patriots advantage over your team. That, to me, is the key. That's fantastic. Folks, when I took over here at Locked On Patriots,

I told you I was going to bring you incredible guests as often as I could, and we just had an incredible guest here with me, Deuce Windham. Absolutely crushed it. Deuce, I'm going to turn the mic over to you. Plug some stuff. Let the people know again where they can find you and your work. Well, like I said, guys, you'll be hearing a lot more from me. I plan on hanging out with Mark

and guys like Dan at the Scouting Academy. So if you want to follow me on Twitter, it's at RevDeuceWindham. That's R-E-V-D-E-U-C-E-W-I-N-D-H-A-M. My podcast you can find on iTunes. That is Who Dat Confessional. Don't worry. You don't have to be a Saints fan

to tune in and have some fun. We enjoy anybody coming to hang out with us. But if we beat you, you might not want to watch that episode. And also you can find my film studies on YouTube. If you are a fan wanting to learn more about the game or you're interested in your upcoming opponent, it might be the New Orleans Saints,

check out the New Orleans Saints film studies I do. Simply go to YouTube and type in New Orleans Saints film study. I'm what comes up. I've got stuff on a lot of the rookie players. I actually released a film study this morning on ways the Patriots offense could target the Saints defense. So real good stuff. And Mark, got to say thank you for letting me come on the show.

It has been a real pleasure. Oh, man, the pleasure has been all mine. Please, listeners, check out all of Deuce's work. Check out that video on this upcoming matchup. Also, don't forget, send me your questions for the next show, the mailbag show. Hit me with them on Twitter, at Mark Schofield. You Show. Hit me with them on Twitter at Mark Schofield. You can also find me on Facebook as well, Mark Schofield on there.

And also, go to iTunes. Leave a review at the Locked On Patriots page on iTunes. Make sure your Twitter handle is in there. Get yourself entered to win that PFF Edge subscription. Trust me, I use it. Deuce uses it. You're going to want to use it as well, whether it's just to learn more about your team, learn more about the Pats, or to get the edge in your next fantasy matchup.

So do that, and then do check out Deuce's work as well. And until then, keep it locked right here on Locked on Patriots. What you doing? Ran out of space on my phone, so I'm deleting some stuff. Bye singing dog. Bye goal. Bye wedding ceremony. Stop. At MetroPCS, you get two free phones with twice as much memory. Really?

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