Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots 2021 Training Camp Primer with Ryan Spagnoli — 7/23/2021
Episode Date: July 23, 2021With the New England Patriots set to open 2021 Training Camp in less than six days, host Mike D’Abate welcomes Ryan Spagnoli of SB Nation’s Pats Pulpit. The duo discuss Stephon Gilmore’s contrac...t situation, the potential for a camp quarterback battle, and Ryan’s thoughts on what to watch for during training camp.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast.
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All of you Foxborough faithful.
You are now locked in to the Locked On Patriots podcast.
It is Friday, July 23rd, 2021, and it's time for an all-inclusive camp primer here on your daily home
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Patriots fans, thank football and Foxborough.
It is Friday here on the pod.
And with training camp set to begin in just under five days,
today's episode of the pod will focus on what to watch for as the Pats prepare to take the
field for their first training camp practice on Wednesday, July 28th.
My name is Mike DeBate and I cover the New England Patriots for Patriot Maven of Sports
Illustrated.
I am also your host of the Locked On Patriots podcast, which of course is a proud part of
the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.
And, folks, because it's your team every day,
that means your questions, comments, and feedback are always welcomed
and very much appreciated.
So share that feedback.
Send it to the Internet by reaching out to me
and following me on Twitter at MDABATENFL.
And while you're out there giving the weekend nod and saying,
how you doing to the
Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Lockdown Patriots account as well at LO underscore
Patriots. Pats fans, we have gone over just about every positional depth chart the Patriots have on
their roster, told you what to watch for, and maybe some surprises in store. But today here on
the pod, we're going to take an all-inclusive look at training
camp, including the major storylines, Stephon Gilmore's contract situation, the quarterback
competition, who might be in line for a surprise cut from the roster, and of course, a little bit
of a primer on how to truly evaluate training camp and get the most out of it so that way you can
make an informed prediction for the Patriots' upcoming season. Here today to help me break it all down is a talented writer and reporter for Pat's Pulpit
of SB Nation, Ryan Spagnoli. Spags himself joins me here on the hot seat. We'll also discuss the
potential battle at quarterback between Cam Newton, Mac Jones, and maybe even Jarrett Stidham.
Last but not least, we'll bring it all home with our prognostications,
as well as who might be on the Patriots' hot seat themselves
when it comes to potential roster cuts.
Folks, in action packed on today's agenda,
Ryan Spagnoli joins me on the hot seat in just a moment
to talk everything and anything related to Patriots training camp
when this Friday episode of the Locked On Patriots Podcast continues.
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Patriots fans, my guest today to help me close out the weekend style here on Locked On Patriots
is a true standout within the Patriots media realm.
His star continues to rise each and every day.
He covers the Patriots for Pat's Pulpit of SB Nation
and is the co-host of the Patriots
Nation podcast alongside another great friend of the program, Mr. Pat Lane.
Ryan Spagnoli joins me here today on this Friday episode.
Ryan, welcome to Locked On Patriots.
Thanks, Mike.
Thanks for the nice words.
That was very generous of you.
I appreciate it and happy to be here.
Oh, absolutely.
And not generous enough, in my opinion, Ryan,
you've done amazing work throughout the past year and really throughout your
entire tenure covering the team. You know,
it's kind of a brotherhood up here in New England, covering the pads,
whether you're going through, you know,
Brady withdrawals or whether you're looking forward to the next steps for the
New England Patriots, it's always a lot of fun.
And we always like to recognize great talent here on Locked On Patriots.
And this has been a conversation I've been waiting to have for a while.
Having you on here is an honor for us and a pleasure for us.
So that being said, bud, let's get right down to it.
An exciting time for Patriots fans.
You can now begin to track the start of training camp
in hours rather than days.
The first practice scheduled for Wednesday, July 28th.
And there are a lot of storylines heading into this season, Ryan.
But one of the biggest, I think, has been the status of Stephon Gilmore.
From the contract situation to yesterday, him being placed on the pup list to start camp.
Gilmore was unquestionably the most high profile of Thursday's designees to be placed on pup.
Of course, we all know that stems from a week 15 injury against the Dolphins.
Partially torn quad.
That ended his season.
He did undergo successful surgery.
At least that's what was reported to repair the injury.
And, you know, Stefan's offseason has been interesting.
A lot of people have been talking about the injury,
but most people have been talking about the fact that he was not present
for the team's voluntary offseason program or mandatory minicamp.
And it basically stems from the fact of his desire to obtain a contract extension
or at least a bump in salary.
We know Ryan Gilmore is set to make just over $7 million in salary
as we sit here right now recording this podcast.
That makes him the 26th highest paid corner in football.
You know that two years removed from being the defensive player of the year,
Gilmore's looking for a bump, and rightfully so.
So while he might, there was some question as to whether or not I should say
that he might extend his holdout into training camp, but he was among the group of veterans
that reported to Gillette Stadium yesterday. Now, some are saying this might be a way to circumvent
the system, meaning that Stefan is able to remain off the field while he and the Pats work on a deal,
but not be fined for those absences, which we saw Mike Giardi's report earlier this week.
That could equal $50,000 a day.
$50,000 a day is a pretty hefty price tag, even if you're making Stephon Gilmore kind of money.
So, Ryan, what is your read on the Gilmore situation?
Do you think that we should expect news on this shortly,
or do you think this could extend for a on this shortly or do you think this could
extend for a bit into training camp i think it may extend i think it's a good sign that
that he reported right i think um obviously did he want to you know who knows that's for him to
decide uh regardless of kind of the contract situation but i think when you look into it
it's a great sign that he did report um now, what does that mean in terms of the pup list? You know, I've seen a lot of people say,
oh, it could be a disciplinary thing, which I don't think so. I think Bill understands the
situation. And I'm sure there was a little bit of a cat and mouse game between the contracts.
But I think ultimately, it's a way for him to get in the building. He showed up. He's here.
Is he going to participate? Who knows? We know he's been, for him to get in the building. He showed up. He's here. Is he going to participate?
Who knows?
We know he's been participating in some sort of football activity since that quad surgery.
How healthy is he?
We don't know.
He hasn't put a percentage on that.
So I think this does drag into training camp a little bit.
I think one thing that people aren't talking about enough is J.C. Jackson and Stephon Gilmore
are both set to hit the open
market next season. Obviously, Gilmore is the better corner, no disrespect to J.C. Jackson,
but has proven it. He's proven to be a top three corner in the league for the last four years now.
Do they kind of pay him and, you know, handcuff him a little bit in terms of paying Jackson next
year, or do they go with the up-and-coming, younger, a little bit cheaper, future number one corner in Jackson? Obviously, their cap space next year,
it isn't as high as what they have this year, but they still have some comfortable space.
Yeah, I think it's a very interesting situation. If I had to guess what would happen, I think it's,
you know, maybe they give them a bump in salary this year, and if the sides aren't, you know maybe they give him a bump in salary this year and if the sides aren't aren't um you
know too uh on the same page maybe there's some boy years kind of similar to that revis deal we
saw back in 2014 such a great point i'm so glad that you mentioned jackson too because i agree
with you i don't think enough people are talking about that and the fact that the patriots do have
somewhat of a decision to make here do you go with the reliable corner obviously and I agree with you the better corner of the two right now
in Stephon Gilmore because of his seasoning his veteran savvy all of that factors into place and
still what the guy can do on the field he's still when healthy he's still a top three corner in the
league no one can deny that but JC has really emerged as that ball hawking type of player that
really has a nose for
the football he can be physical he can play with finesse and really I think is really rounding into
one of the more complete corners in the league do the Patriots have enough wherewithal to be able to
hold on to both of those guys that's going to be the question you mentioned some comfortable cap
space not as much as they've had in years past. How much are they willing to commit to the position? We know Bill Belichick places a penchant on strong defensive backs, especially at the
cornerback position. So that could be something to watch. But I agree with you. It's great to
see him in camp. I'm glad to see that Stefan is here and engaged. And yeah, I mean, the fact that
he has been placed on PUP does lead me to believe that this may extend into a few days worth of practices and maybe help not to have to have Stefan come out of pocket for those absences.
So we'll see what happens. But ultimately, the fact that he's here, I think, is a good sign for things to come.
Ryan, switching from cornerbacks to quarterbacks, you know, a lot of eyes are going to be on the quarterback situation.
And Cam Newton is the projected incumbent starter for the Patriots.
But Mac Jones is expected to make a strong case to be the starter as well.
You don't invest the number 15 pick in the draft in bringing in a quarterback to have him sit on the sidelines for years and years. It seems to be the consensus that maybe he's more apt to get playing time early on than
later.
Whether that's this season or not, I think it's still a little bit too far away.
We still haven't even seen these guys put on the pad yet.
But Jared Stidham is also still in the mix, folks, and we don't want to definitely disrespect
Jared, but him starting the season on Pup yesterday did raise a little bit of an eyebrow when it comes to his availability.
So with all the hoopla surrounding the quarterbacks, Ryan,
how do you see this competition shaking out during camp?
Yeah, I think it's a lot closer than I would have expected.
I think when he got drafted in April, I think everybody,
along with myself, kind of figured, okay, redshirt year coming.
He's going to learn, and this is Cam's team,
which they reiterated several times even during his opening press conference.
But then I think when Cam got back into minicamp
and they all got back on the field,
you really saw how advanced and, I guess,
further along than people had expected Mac Jones was. now him playing early on week one in the year is starting
to become more of a possibility than I would have thought.
But I do think it's Cam Newton's job to lose. Obviously he's kind of that alpha
male, that, that leader in their clubhouse that, you know,
they desperately need. But I think when it comes to Mac, if he can continue to learn the offense and create, you know, they desperately need. But I think when it comes to Mac, if he can continue to learn the
offense and create, you know, some sort of oomph and bring some swagger to that position and really
show that he's got the playbook down and can, you know, be efficient with the football, I think it'll,
you know, come down to the preseason games and training camp and how well he can perform.
Do I think he plays this year?
I think absolutely.
I dug up a stat a few weeks ago.
Since 2015, I believe there's been about 23 quarterbacks
that have been drafted and tied the first round.
And only one of those guys didn't start a game,
and that was Jordan Love last year.
The next guy with the fewest starts was Patrick Mahomes with just one.
Obviously we know how he, um,
shaked out of the guys kind of in that 10 to 20 range.
You saw about an average of, of about six to seven starts per year. Um,
so that's kind of where, um, you know,
he could see time. I just don't know what Bill, how valuable, you know, how valuable he, he, he praises that position.
Is he going to be able to pull cam mid year? You know,
they have a kind of a light schedule coming up if he's not playing well,
but they're winning games. I can't see him pulling him.
So I think if, if Mac Jones were to win the job, it's gotta be on a camp.
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And I, in a lot of ways,
I think that those statistics that you've put forth about players not being able to see the field or whatever, scenario uh best case scenario for the patriots would be cam coming in playing at a
very high level uh holding on to the job and essentially having mac really push him to to his
limit and then having both of these guys uh you know ready to go if obviously there's any type of
issue with regard to health or anything like that we might see matt
coming in mid-season but ultimately i think this is going to be interesting to watch in camp even
in minicamp we saw little bits and pieces of what we might be seeing within the next couple of weeks
uh matt coming in playing very strong cam struggling a little bit the final day of minicamp
was kind of a reverse we saw matt come in uh struggle a little bit and cam look to have his
strongest of the three days of mini camp so lots to look forward to and great insight as always
ryan this has been a blast so far always informative always a fun time talking ball with
you but folks we're not done yet because in just a moment ryan spagnoli and i will discuss the
unfortunate subject of camp casualties.
Who might be on the cutting room floor?
And could we all be in for a surprise in that department?
We'll also get Ryan's pre-camp thoughts when this Friday episode of the Locked On Patriots podcast continues.
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That's fans.
Ryan Spagnoli of Pat's pulpit of SB nation is our guest today on lockdown
Patriots.
And Ryan, every year we arrive at training camp time knowing that rosters are going to
be eventually cut down to size.
And it usually happens before we know it.
We come in with this anticipatory, you know, feeling for training camp.
And then we blink and we're almost at Labor Day weekend and we're ready to start cutting
the rosters down.
So it is inevitable.
And there are more than just a few camp bodies on this roster.
And everybody knows what we mean by that.
People that are brought in that are not expected to make the team.
They're expected to be roster casualties.
Some of them might end up on the practice squad and some of them may even find new homes.
So, Ryan, when you look at this roster from top to bottom,
who do you believe might find themselves on the cutting room floor
at the conclusion of camp?
And is there a player or players among them that might make the fan base say,
wow, I didn't expect that one?
Yeah, I think it's hard to look past the wide receiver position in Nikhil Harry.
Obviously, besides Stephon Gilmore,
he's kind of in the talk of,
I like to say the dog days of summer,
kind of that time between OTAs,
mini camp and training camp. Obviously we,
we know he,
his agent put out a request for a trade.
He's kind of on the outside looking in,
I guess you could say at the wide receiver position.
Although I do feel that aside from Nelson Aguilar and Jacoby Myers,
and feel free to disagree,
I really don't think there's much of a certainty or given playing time
other than those two.
I think it's kind of a battle between those three to five spots.
How much are those guys really going to play with the amount of time that
the two tight ends and they'll be in, you know, 22, 11 personnel, who knows,
right?
I think you'll mainly see two and sometimes three wide receiver sets.
But, however, I do think Nikhil Harry,
and maybe he's not so much of a surprise cut,
but I do think that's a guy that when you spent the first-round pick on him
just, what, let's say, what, two years ago,
it's kind of a surprise given where they drafted him
and the guys that went after him and that talented wide receiver class
and he was the second one selected.
So I think starting there, Nikhil Harry is my number one guy
that I think is a surprise cut.
And I don't think it's smart for them to trade him right now.
He has no value.
Might as well get him into camp, see if he can battle
and work his way out of this and try to earn a spot
and maybe showcase him a little bit in the preseason.
We saw they did that with Demarius Thomas.
They were able to get a sixth round pick back a few years ago.
So I think starting with there, Nikhil Harry is my number one guy as I guess a quote unquote
surprise cut for them.
I like the mention on Demarius Thomas because I think that is a good correlation about a
player that was expected to be a contributor when they brought him in.
Someone that looked pretty decent in training camp,
and then obviously the decision was made to move on,
and they did end up getting a sixth rounder for Demarius' services.
So who knows? Maybe that will be the case.
We all heard the news earlier on Friday about Michael Thomas going down with the New Orleans Saints.
Here on Locked On Network, I had a chance to talk to Ross Jackson,
who hosts Locked On Saints, I had a chance to talk to Ross Jackson, who hosts Locked On Saints a couple of weeks ago, and we talked about Nikhil possibly being a trade target for the
New Orleans Saints, but not having a whole lot of capital to be able to give up, or maybe
not being willing to give up the type of capital that the Patriots might want in return.
Maybe that throws a wrench into their plans, and maybe they look at it and say, you know
what, let's kick the tires on Nikhil Harry.
Maybe we can get him for a reasonable price price and the Patriots might be willing to part
with him, not for maybe as little as the Saints would have initially offered, but maybe a
little more than they would have offered initially as well because of their circumstances.
That might be a long shot, but you never know.
Stranger things have happened in the NFL.
I do agree with you.
I think McKeel could be someone that finds himself on the cutting room floor
or jettisoned via trade if the Patriots are not able to work something out
throughout training camp.
Sonny Michel is another name that pains me to say.
I've been a Sonny guy since he was drafted, and I love his upside.
But you look at the moves that they made and especially
with Ramondre Stevenson coming in if he's activated off of rookie NFI pretty quickly
he comes in proving that he can receive out of the backfield or proving that he can run with the
power and the speed that Patriots fans are hoping he will maybe Sony becomes expendable at that
point and maybe they try to look for him to be jettisoned.
So there's a lot that can happen.
Players that might end up being cut.
We might see some veterans that don't make the final roster.
Ultimately, Ryan, that's one of the difficulties of trying to provide some cutdowns
and trying to provide some roster prognostications.
There's always going to be players that we know and love that are going to be on the
outside looking in.
So definitely something to keep a sharp eye on, folks, as we head toward camp.
And that leads me quite nicely into my final question for you today, Bud.
And that I always think it's way too early to speculate on potential records.
I'm asked an awful lot, and I know you are asked the same question all the time.
Is this a 10-win team?
Is this a double-digit win team?
Are they better than they were last year?
Do you think they're going to miss the playoffs?
Before these teams put the pads on, Ryan, we don't really know what we have,
and it's tough to speculate.
It's a part of the job, but it is tough to speculate.
So that being said, I'm going to lessen the impact of a hot seat a
little bit on this question and ask it a different way. When it comes to training camp and how to
properly evaluate it, in your estimation, my friend, what will you be looking to see in camp
so that we can evaluate this team and maybe make a prediction on its potential in 2021 within the next few weeks?
Yeah, it's interesting.
I mean, you know, I want to look at the defensive side of the ball.
I think, you know, when you look at their roster, what they rolled out, you know, the
last third of that season last year, it's got a completely different defense, right?
You got Dante Hightower back.
You get Kyle Duggar and Josh Uche, you know, who should take
year two leaps, big money to Matthew Judon, Jalen Mills, you know, you bring back Kyle Van Noy,
and then you load up the front seven with Lawrence Guy back and Christian Barmore and Devon Godshow
and Henry Anderson, that'll be the strength of the football team. And I think that's when
when the Patriots are kind of going through a transition mode offensively, which we've seen a few times during that 20-year run, even with Tom Brady and the
security you had there. They really leaned heavily on their defense. They have a lot of veterans,
but they also have a lot of younger guys that can bring that athleticism and speed, kind of that new
game of football. So I think that's where I'm looking. How elite can this defense be? I think
if they can have a top three to five defense has to be a double digit
win team.
I think that all you need is a serviceable quarterback.
That's not going to turn the football over and win, you know,
games 20 to 17, 24 to 21. It sounds very cliche.
We've been hearing this for years, but they've proven they can win that way.
And I also do think it does fall in the hands of the quarterback.
How good can Cam Newton be?
Can he improve with the talent around him?
Or is Mac Jones going to come in and set the world on fire
and show he's ready to go and run this offense efficiently?
He played in a pro style with Sarkeesian for a few years,
so he can certainly make that adjustment.
But I think it really starts with the defense.
I agree with you.
I really think it starts with the defense as well.
Look, no one was happier to see Hunter Henry and John O'Smith join the New England Patriots than I
was. I've been a big fan of Hunter Henry for a while. Obviously, I covered the Los Angeles
Chargers before I started covering the Patriots. So I've covered Hunter since he was a rookie.
And this has been a tremendous, tremendous opportunity for me to see this kid evolve.
I've salivated over the possibility that he could be a great Patriots tight end here and I still
think he will be pairing him alongside with Jonu you get the prototypical move tight end in Jonu
Smith and the prototypical wide tight end in Hunter Henry really forming that 12 man personnel
the play action schemes that Josh McDaniels can dial up are going to be amazing.
So really looking forward to seeing that.
But the areas where I think the Patriots were so deficient last year and really set the
tone, I think, for the year were on defense, being able to set the edge and stop the run.
And those are two things that they had a lot of difficulty doing last year.
You bring in guys like Matt Judon, you draft guys like Ronnie Perkins,
like Christian Barmore,
that really sets you up to try to help,
you know,
build for the future.
And,
you know,
you also have Dante Hightower coming back.
All of a sudden that play calling prowess that was missing last year is
there in the center of that defense.
Then you're looking at the interior of the defensive line and the Patriots
struggled there as well. Last year, they bring in Devon God,
they bring in Henry Anderson,
who I think is going to be a very versatile addition for this team,
not just in a run stuffing,
which he was one of the better defensive linemen in the league last year at
contributing to that,
but he can also pin his ears back and get after the quarterback when the Jets
needed him to be a pass rusher. He was pretty adept at doing that as well.
So a lot of upgrades to the defense, and I think that's where the Patriots are going to be even
more impressive. They're going to win many more closer games, I think, this year and many more
low-scoring games because I think they're going to be better on the preventative side of the ball.
Ryan, what can I say, my friend?
I really do appreciate you taking the time out to join me here to help close the week
in style on Locked On Patriots.
For the benefit of our listeners, please let everyone know where they can find you on social
media and what we can look forward to coming up from the great voice and the great pen
of Ryan Spagnoli.
Yeah, I appreciate the kind words, Mike.
It's always a pleasure sitting down and talking with you.
Obviously looking forward to, you know,
hopefully seeing you down there next week, putting a name to a face,
you know, talking to the ball.
It's always a pleasure.
And then obviously you joining us on our show in a few weeks.
But sure, Ryan underscore Spags on Twitter.
Follow along my work at patspulpit.com of SB Nation,
also the podcast that comes out every Friday at Pats Nation Pod.
Mike, thanks so much again for having me on.
Like I said, it's always a blast talking some ball with you.
And fingers crossed we get this thing across the finish line
and we can actually get down there and experience some sort of, you know,
the other side of this, covering the team and getting to know the players
and being on the sideline.
Absolutely.
It would be my honor and privilege to be able to share some time with you over at training
camp and it's always an honor and always a pleasure to talk ball with you continue the
amazing work that you've put out it's going to be a fun season to cover bud and it's going to be our
honor to be able to cover it alongside so many great journalists that we have up in this area but
in the meantime before we have you back on here on the pod, and we'd love to do that
before training camp is said and done to maybe do a season preview with you.
Please stay safe, stay well.
And we look forward to talking ball with you again right here on Locked On Patriots.
Thanks again, Ryan.
Thank you, Mike.
And so Patriots fans, we put a bow on the week that was here on the Locked On Patriots Thank you, Mike. My esteemed friend and colleague Peter Bukowski updates you on the latest news in every major sport with the help of our local experts.
Follow the Locked On Today podcast on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
And as for that Patriots news and notes, next week begins training camp.
So a lot to cover and a the Locked On Patriots podcast on platforms such as the Odyssey app, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.
Just make sure that you are staying locked in to Locked On Patriots.
Once again, my name is Mike DeBate.
I thank my guest today, Ryan Spagnoli, for his time, his insight, and his appearance on today's pod.
But most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for continuing to make Locked On Patriots a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage.
Until next time, Foxborough faithful, stay safe, stay well, be the change you wish to see in the world.
Have a great weekend, everyone.