Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots Coaching Experience: Key to Future Success? Pats, Chiefs Dynasty Talk

Starting point is 00:00:00 Mike Vrabel and the New England Patriots are assembling a crew in Foxborough, but will all these experienced coaches lead to a more rapid return to respectability? Stick around, you're about to be locked in to the Locked On Patriots Podcast. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello to all of you, Foxborough faithful. Thank you once again for making Locked On Patriots a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage. I'm your host, Mike DeBate.

Starting point is 00:00:39 I cover your New England Patriots for Patriots Country. So reach out to me. Let me know what's on your mind on X at MDABATENFL. And while you're out there showing some love to Locked On Patriots social media style, please follow our account there as well at LO underscore Patriots. You can also find me where the skies are blue over on Blue Sky at MDABATENFL.BSKY.SOCIAL. And of course, folks, today's episode is brought to you by our good friends over at FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here, and there's no better way to make every play more exciting than with the FanDuel Sportsbook.

Starting point is 00:01:15 New customers can bet just $5, and if you win, you'll score $200 in bonus bets. Download the app and head to Fananduel.com to get started. Pats fans, as we said, Super Bowl 59 is set. The Philadelphia Eagles are set to take on the Kansas City Chiefs. But here in Foxborough, the most important thing that is being set is Mike Rabel's coaching staff. And while the principals like offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, defensive coordinator Terrell Williams,

Starting point is 00:01:48 special teams coordinator Jeremy Springer, have been set for a little over a week now, Mike Vrabel continues to add interesting, experienced names to his coaching staff. What does it mean for the Pats? And will it mean a wicker return to respectability? Here today to lend his wisdom, counsel, and insight is a good friend of the program. You know his great work from Patriots

Starting point is 00:02:10 football now. He is my good friend and one of the best Pats guys in the business. Dan Kelly joins me today. Dan, thank you for joining me and welcome back to Locked On Patriots. Thanks so much for having me, Mike. It's always a pleasure to be on the show. Absolutely, my friend and i know you caught the games yesterday i know you got some insight that you'd like to share when it comes to now super bowl 59 being set between the philadelphia eagles and the kansas city chiefs we're going to get to that in just a moment i also know that you're a player personnel guy and in my opinion a player personnel guy extraordinaire especially when it comes to scouting potential free agents and the draft folks we're going to

Starting point is 00:02:49 talk about that a little bit because this new england patriots coaching staff is really shaping up to be very interesting dan a lot of experience on this staff under mike grable and a lot of people are wondering if this experience level within this coaching staff can help lead the Patriots back to respectability quicker. But first, Dan, let's just talk about some of the new faces we're going to see in Foxborough this year. Obviously, Mike Vrabel is the head guy. Not exactly a new face, but when it comes to being the head coach, he will be the Patriots' third coach in as many seasons.

Starting point is 00:03:23 Just doesn't seem like you're talking about the Patriots when you use a statement like that but that's exactly where they are um Josh McDaniels definitely not a new face he's been around the block here in Foxborough quite often coming back as your offensive coordinator Terrell Williams is the new guy on the block and the coordinator level of this coaching staff and And of course, Jeremy Springer, now his second year as special teams coordinator. But Mike Vrabel has been assembling an interesting crew for lack of a better term. There've been a lot of guys that have been reported

Starting point is 00:03:54 to be coming in that have Patriots fans excited and for good reason. One of the first of the big names is Mike Vrabel's right-hand man, for lack of a better term, but I'll say Mike Vrabel's consigliere is coming in. And that's John Stretch Stryker. A lot of people are looking at him as playing like an Ernie Adams type role.

Starting point is 00:04:14 Officially, he will be New England's vice president of football operations and strategy. I've talked to a few people close to this organization. They assure me this is going to be an equally valuable role both on the field and in the front offices. But the fun wasn't done there because the coaching staff continues to be compiled. Former New York Jets running backs coach Tony Doze is going to be coaching the Patriots runners in 2025. A couple of up-and-comers on the coaching circuit,

Starting point is 00:04:41 quarterbacks coach Ashton Grant. I know a lot of people are excited about this hire offensive assistant Riley Larkin bringing some youth some vibrance to this offensive coaching staff and then on Monday morning we got news that Doug Marone would be hired in an offensive advisory role a lot of us are assuming that's going to be an offensive line coaching position given his experience given his coaching history. Thomas Brown going to be in the fold as the tight ends coach, the pass game coordinator. I'm not done yet, Dan. On the defensive side of the ball, Patriots hiring Florida A&M's defensive coordinator and their linebackers coach, Milton Patterson.

Starting point is 00:05:18 He's going to play a big role on the coaching staff of Terrell Williams. So those are just a few of the names that the Patriots have brought in here to try to add some experience, some depth to this coaching staff that the team didn't have in 2024. When you look at these coaching hires, first of all, what's been your assessment of the coaches that Vrabel have brought in so far? Who among those names that I've mentioned, or maybe among names I haven't mentioned yet yet stand out to you as potential all-star hires this offseason? Well, I think you got to start with the coordinators. So far, I guess to start with the one holdover from the 2024 staff,

Starting point is 00:06:02 Jeremy Springer retaining his special teams coordinator position. I love, I think that was an excellent keep. I had written an article targeting some assistants that I would really like to see stick around. He was tops on the list. Cornerbacks coach Mike Pellegrino, who we don't know about at this point um was another name listed and uh bob bicknell who we have heard is departing um was the third name on that list that i thought deserved a shot to stay um bob bicknell i thought did a great job with the tight ends also experience, uh, with

Starting point is 00:06:47 wide receivers also. So I thought there'd be a spot for him somewhere. Um, however, when you're bringing in a new staff, I think one aspect of staff building that really got overlooked, uh, in 2024, and you could say this across the roster building in a lot of ways, the way they put together their offensive line. It's not a collection of individuals. It's really trying to put together one cohesive unit. And the fact that these guys all had worked with each other

Starting point is 00:07:24 or have experience, worked with each other or have experienced, they know each other. This really feels like Vrabel's chosen staff or Josh McDaniel's chosen staff or Terrell Williams chosen staff, as opposed to last year and, you know, not any fault of his own necessarily. Gerard Mayo didn't have the network of people at his disposal. He had worked with one program his entire career, and it was a program that,

Starting point is 00:07:54 to a large degree, ownership was looking to move on from. So, you know, you saw Brian Belichick and Pellegrino stick around. Hightower brought back, but as a rookie. Matthew Slater brought in as a rookie coach. So you didn't have this level of experience that you're seeing with Vrabel where he can pull out his Rolodex and bring in guys not only with coordinator experiences to take positional jobs, but head coaching experience. I mean, Doug Marone, I'm sure some have forgotten, he was the Buffalo Bills head coach and an excellent one.

Starting point is 00:08:37 He actually really bumbled that opportunity up there. I'm very familiar with him as we both went to Syracuse and he was the Syracuse head coach before taking the Bills job. And the only reason that in my estimation, not confirmed, but in my estimation that he did not stick with the Bills is because he believed the New York Jets job at the time was coming open and coming to him, which he viewed as more desirable job. History has proven that the Bills were a more desirable place and he didn't land that job anyway. He ended up going down, becoming a coordinator, worked with the Jaguars, took over as their head coach after an interim basis uh worked on alabama

Starting point is 00:09:27 staff worked with bc last year with bill o'brien and uh that's really where the connection with vrabel stems from i believe because uh vrabel and josh mcdaniel's both very close to bc coach bill o'brien so you know he came highly recommended so you're getting a former nfl head coach that's in theory going to be an offensive line coach for you a position he's had for many years as part of when he was with the saints uh before going to syracuse was an offensive line coach and run game coordinator so he'll have more leverage more responsibility than your average offensive line coach certainly than the guys that have been brought in in the post skarnecchia years in new england um so that's a huge significant upgrade and then thomas brown another guy he was interim

Starting point is 00:10:21 head coach with the bears last year he was a candidate for several offensive coordinator jobs this year um so to land him as a positional coach and past game coordinator is a huge get um and these are guys too that possibly you're in jeopardy of losing them two coordinator jobs if things go well but as i've said in the past you're only losing guys if your team is successful so it's it's a good sign if thomas brown moves on and becomes an offensive coordinator it means things are going well in new england and you're not losing your offensive coordinator in that scenario you You're losing a tight ends coach who, you know, in all due respect, the tight ends coach is a little easier to replace.

Starting point is 00:11:10 So I love the experience that's coming in here. I love the diversity of personalities because Mike Vrabel is a complex individual. He's not only the gruff guy like Belichick. He's not only a jokester like Mayo. He really is a combination of those. And I think his staff is really showing all of those degrees. And that's huge for the players because sometimes you need a pat on the back and sometimes you need to get shoot out. And they have guys on the staff that can do all of the the above so uh

Starting point is 00:11:46 really love the way things are coming together yeah absolutely and i'm glad that you mentioned the head coaching experience that right now is on the bench under mike brable you mentioned doug marone gonna be very interesting to see if mike brable pulls on some of his wisdom and counsel when it comes to being a head coach in this league. Thomas Brown has some interim experience being a head coach. Obviously, we know Josh McDaniels has an extensive history being a head coach in New England. Maybe not one that people want to talk about at parties, Dan, but I still think that there is a level of respect there. He knows the ins and outs of how this has to go.

Starting point is 00:12:22 With Terrence Williams, you're hearing that his style is going to be much more four-man front heavy. So we might see a little bit more of that than we've seen in Foxborough in years past. If they do institute these types of changes, could it mean a quicker return to respectability than some people are believing is going to be possible here in New England? I think that the personnel is really going to dictate a lot of that. You know, everybody has great plans, but you need the players to put it on the field. And one thing that really got echoed throughout the Patriots locker room last year, and I think the reason that maybe some of the players were a little more loyal to Gerard

Starting point is 00:13:08 Mayo than maybe the fans were is because the players even viewed it as a lack of talent on the roster. And there's only so much you can do in this league when you just don't have talent at the positions. So the Patriots, I think, are in a really nice position with Drake Mayhead quarterback because there's your franchise player, your keystone quarterback, which really sets the table for everything, and he's capable of allowing you to do so much. Even you look at Mac Jones, who I still think had a very underrated rookie season. I think his last two years here really dampened the impression

Starting point is 00:13:54 that people had of his overall performance, especially as a rookie. But he was limited in what he could do. He didn't have the arm strength to pull off certain plays. He didn't really have the mobility in the pocket to tuck it and run in the same way. Even if his 40 might have been comparable, you can tell the difference by watching games. And that's why I study so much game film of these guys I know the combine is uh is eye-catching for fans and you can look at numbers but there really is no duplicate to

Starting point is 00:14:33 watching the way guys play the game and Drake May plays fast when he runs he throws the ball hard and uh it really opens up the offense to a lot of possibilities, but he needs some playmakers. Shoring up the offensive line is more important than anything Josh McDaniels will do. If they can protect their quarterback, they have the ability to run a successful and effective offense in any number of ways. And I think they have enough guys on the staff and enough quality ideas

Starting point is 00:15:07 that they'll do what works. And Mike Vrabel's been criticized by some for being a little too old school because when he was in Tennessee, they really had a run-heavy offense and they played, you know, 1930s style where you hand off 35 times a game but he also had a prime derrick henry and exactly i had prime derrick henry i'd give it to him 30 times a game also so there's nothing wrong with doing whatever gives your team the best chance to win and bill belichick's a great example of that 2004 bill, Bill Belichick, the offensive MVP on that team is Corey Dillon. But three years later, Corey Dillon's not on the team,

Starting point is 00:15:50 and Randy Moss is on the team. Randy Moss sets the single-season touchdown record for wide receivers. So you adapt to your personnel, and I think the veteran leadership on this team, on the coaching staff, is really going to enable them to do that, is to figure out what works best for this team and make that the game plan. So I'm not set on, and I've seen the same as you, I've seen a million ideas about what offense Josh McDaniels will run.

Starting point is 00:16:23 I think at the end of the day, he'll run whatever the best offense for the personnel is. And we don't know what the personnel is yet. I think there's only a handful of starting jobs that are really etched in stone at this point. So offensive line primary for me. And then on defense, more so than sets, I know Terrell Williams is a big D-line guy. And playing violent and aggressive are two words that have popped up.

Starting point is 00:16:58 And that's really going to benefit, you know, if Christian Barmore is healthy. Christian Barmore is an ideal guy for him. I mean, he can really go next level. He on white, we could see go from being aiance on linebackers making all the plays, having these run-stopping defensive tackles, and just have more playmakers on the field. So I'm excited to see them let loose a little bit. Excellent points. And both on the offensive side of the ball, folks, and on the defensive side of the ball,

Starting point is 00:17:46 Patriots clearly have some work to do to build this team back to respectability. And that leads me quite nicely into what we're going to discuss in just a moment, Dan, because a lot of people are wondering, what does this mean for the Patriots players that are coming in? Players that are not on this roster right now, but will be wearing a Patriots uniform come training camp and come preseason. Does the Patriots' current coaching staff change their approach to the draft or free agency? I'm going to pick the brain of Dan Kelly in just a moment when this episode of the Locked On Patriots podcast continues.

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Starting point is 00:19:32 Patriots fans, thank you once again for joining me here today on Locked on Patriots. And joining us here today to lend his wisdom, his counsel, and his reason when it comes to the Patriots potential return to respectability is my good friend Dan Kelly who you know his great work from Patriots football now and numerous other sites for which he's provided Patriots coverage for a number of years folks one of the best in the business personally and professionally and I'm honored to have him here today Dan we talked in the previous segment about the Patriots new look coaching staff under Mike Grable a lot of new names coming, a lot more experience at given positions. What does it mean for the type of players that they're going to be bringing in? What type of roster are they going to be fielding in order to play to these coaches' strengths?

Starting point is 00:20:18 You kind of touched upon this in the previous segment by saying that you believe that these coaches are smart enough to adapt to the types of players that they have on the field. In other words, adapt to your personnel. So I'm going to put you on the hot seat, my friend. Patriots have over $130 million in salary cap space. They have a large amount of draft capital, including the number four overall pick. When you look at the way the Patriots typically build a roster, and you look at the way the Patriots typically build a roster and you look at the way that Mike Vrabel is assembling his coaching staff, do you believe that these two sides are going to meet in some sort of agreement

Starting point is 00:20:54 when it comes to the types of players that are going to be brought in? Or could this be a whole new experience and a whole new world for New England as they look to build this roster into 2025? Is this coaching staff going to affect the types of players they're going to be bringing in? It's an interesting question because a year ago, Elliot Wolfe was really running the show. And I'm not sure that any of us, and I don't mean this as an insult i'm not sure any of us a year later can put our finger on what type of player elliot wolf was trying to bring in and that's fair that is something that is a little discouraging to me as uh someone that

Starting point is 00:21:41 follows the team as closely as i do. One thing that I certainly got better at over the years, and a huge sample size will do that for you, is by the end of the Bill Belichick regime, for better or worse, I could really identify certain players that I knew would be high on his list. They had certain traits, they had certain things on their resume, be it a captaincy or whatever it may be. But you could really look at certain traits and say, that's the guy that you know Belichick's going to be interested in. So I might not have nailed every pick that I thought the Patriots were going to make, but I will say it became a lot easier. With last year's draft, I thought there was not a lot of cohesiveness to how those picks were being made.

Starting point is 00:22:39 I take Drake May off the board because, to me, that was a no-brainer. He was the number one player overall on my board. He was available at number three. We needed a franchise quarterback. Even if you had him behind Williams and Daniels, undoubtedly he was number three on almost every board. So take him out of the equation. Jalen Polk, I'm not sure what made him so attractive to New England. Caden Wallace, I'm not sure what made him so attractive to New England. Leighton Robinson, Marcellus Stile, you know, Joe Milton, actually, even though he was a backup quarterback,

Starting point is 00:23:20 is maybe the most understandable pick to me. I can say the same about Jaheim Bell because tight end was a need, and I thought that was excellent value in the seventh round. Javon Baker was actually the highest-ranked player available on my board when the Patriots picked. I still... He was not my live pick,

Starting point is 00:23:39 my personal preference for a live pick because they were so thin at edge, and that was before trading judon before trading uche that i thought a guy like austin booker that ended up going to the chicago bears would have been a better fit bringing in a young 21 year old edge rusher that you can develop made more sense to me than bringing in another wide receiver with potential personality conflicts, off-field issues that wasn't a can't-miss star. And if you're trying to rebuild your program,

Starting point is 00:24:14 you might be able to tolerate a guy like that if he's a can't-miss. I'm not sure that Javon Baker's a can't-miss. Patriots are in a position to gamble on those types of players at the moment. That's just my personal perspective. And in free agency or handing out extensions um which they did to multiple guys i think seven in total um i'm not sure anyone lived up to their extension aside from perhaps brendan schooler it was a really disappointing year on that front between uh duggar peppers to buy, Tavai on Winu.

Starting point is 00:25:07 Obviously, Barmore, you can't hold that against them. Yeah, there's, yeah. It's a unique situation. Godchow, you know, sort of a mixed bag. So disappointing year as far as extensions go. And now the narrative is that players don't want to play in New England. It's understandable the taxes are high the team is bad the weather's not great it almost makes you question why we

Starting point is 00:25:31 live here sometimes uh but that being said i think back to the boston red sox and their championship drought back you know extending past 80, back to the turn of the century, Pedro Martinez didn't want to play for the Boston Red Sox, but the Red Sox traded for him. They brought him here, and he loved it. And then he wanted to stay here. So we overpaid Manny Ramirez, which worked out great, overpaid to get him to come here.

Starting point is 00:26:03 And then he obviously was great here um and then you land on a couple of other guys along the way so one thing for the patriots to be a desirable location once again the coaching staff certainly helps with that but for a couple of free agents we are going to need to overpay them. And I don't mean the Rams offer a Larry Jackson 13 million, so the Patriots offer 14 million. I mean, they offer 13, so we offer 18. There's going to need to be maybe one or two overpays in that neighborhood. The other thing that they can do is because now you have coaches, and if you saw some of the announcements for Patriots coaches landing jobs,

Starting point is 00:26:51 there were very good NFL players across the league that had played for those guys, singing their praises and congratulating them on social media. So do those guys potentially want to rejoin them in New England? Could New England trade for a Jeffrey Simmons or a Harold Landry from the Titans? Could they reunite Thomas Brown with a DJ Moore from the Chicago Bears? And maybe you're giving up a little more in a trade. You're giving up a third round pick for dj more um but the alternative to that is maybe giving t higgins 40 million dollars if you're looking to land that number one receiver so from my perspective uh and vrabel was asked what type of players he wants and

Starting point is 00:27:39 he said good ones which you know that's always that's always, that's always the, the obvious answer. But to me, the Patriots really should consider two or three trades. Elliot Wolfe has yet to trade for an NFL player. In his first year on the job, he did not make a single trade that brought New England an NFL player. And I would like to see two or three trades to bring in guys like Simmons or Landry or Moore who are difference makers, who are already bought into the coaching staff and already can sing their praises to the other guys on the team. Moore was not the happiest camper in Chicago, but he loved Brown. And he said he brings juice to the locker room and to the field every time he's around. That's a great guy to have around. And that's a great guy to really relay that message to the younger group. So I think it's really important that they look

Starting point is 00:28:39 at every angle. They're going to want to obviously nail the draft. Big swing and a miss last year from my estimation. They need to nail the draft this year. They need to spend wisely in free agency. And again, I think that means overpaying for a player or two. But then the third aspect of it that has not been tapped into is making a couple of trades, passing up a couple of those draft picks in order to land some proven veterans who can help build the overall camaraderie of the team and really form a new foundation for what the team is going to be moving forward. Excellent insight, Dan, and I always appreciate

Starting point is 00:29:20 that. And ultimately, it's going to lead us to I think our final point today Kansas City is all set to take what they believe to be their rightful place atop the AFC and maybe atop the NFL as the most successful franchise in NFL history if they do pull off this three-peat what does it do if anything at all to the Patriots legacy I think you know where Dan and I are going to go with this but I'm going to let my good friend answer that question in just a moment when this episode of the Lockdown Patriots podcast wraps up right here on the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Lockdown listeners, Super Bowl 59 is here. One game, two teams, endless possibilities, and there's no better way to make every play more exciting

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Starting point is 00:31:11 It is the day after Championship Sunday in the NFL, and my good friend Dan Kelly joins me here today. We've been talking all things New England Patriots, Mike Vrabel's coaching staff, what the Patriots need to do to get back to respectability, but Championship Sunday seems to have lost its luster here in New England, Dan, if we're being very honest. This used to be the Patriots' time of year. A couple of years ago, I wrote an article for SI, and I said, winter is coming, and so are the Patriots. And I was very fortunate enough to be able to use the art of Game of Thrones and put Bill Belichick holding a sword and Tom Brady kind of as the Jon Snow to lead this New England Patriots team into the winter where they were dominant for so many years.

Starting point is 00:31:50 Winter has become, once again, very cold and very damp here in New England. It's not an exciting feeling anymore. And the more success that a team like the Kansas City Chiefs has only, I think, exacerbates the New England Patriots fans' desire to return to respectability. The Pats are still king of the mountain when it comes to most championships, the Super Bowl era of the NFL. Tied with the Pittsburgh Steelers for six, but this Chiefs team continues to move forward at a very dizzying pace,

Starting point is 00:32:20 and they have a chance to do something in Super Bowl 59 that not even the Patriots could pull off. And that is a three-peat. The Philadelphia Eagles stand in their way. They pulled off a 55-23 win over the Washington Commanders on Sunday to win the NFC crown. They look like they're clicking on all cylinders. But when you look at the two games that were played on Sunday, first of all, your general impressions of the teams that are advancing and who may have a little bit of an edge right now when it comes to Super Bowl 59. But most importantly, when you compare it to the success that the New England Patriots have had, do you see any similarities or any potential differences?

Starting point is 00:32:59 And what do you think it does to the Patriots legacy? A couple of things. I think it's important for Patriots fans to realize that, number one, things were really great around here for a really long time, and I think that got taken for granted by a large portion of the fan base. And I remember getting a little ridiculed online one year Patriots lost in the AFC championship. And I said, you know, final four of the NFL is pretty impressive considering everything they dealt with this season. And people hated it. People hated it because you're in the AFC championship and at that point you don't

Starting point is 00:33:47 feel good about being in the afc championship you want to win the super bowl so and then once you're in the super bowl you're thinking of winning the super bowl it's not it's not like back when the patriots went to super bowl 20 and they could proudly display their Super Bowl, their 1985 AFC championship rings, knowing that getting to the Super Bowl was a great accomplishment. The Bears were a far superior team. It was great that they got there and that was a major accomplishment. The second, and 96 even felt that way to some degree, even though I still think they had a good chance to beat the Packers that year. But ever since they broke the seal and they won that first Super Bowl, that eliminated it for the rest of time. At no point, at least in our lifetimes, will Patriots fans feel good about anything less than a championship? And it's just

Starting point is 00:34:45 worth taking a step back and noting that since our last Super Bowl win in New England, the only three franchises that have won a Super Bowl are the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the Los Angeles Rams, and the Kansas City Chiefs. Only three. So there are 28 NFL franchises with a longer Super Bowl drought than the New England Patriots. And I just want to reiterate that because I think it is forgotten by quite a few around here. The Port Orions have never been to a Super bowl i i picked them pre-season and pre-playoffs to make super bowl this year they fell short they've lost both coordinators they've already started losing assistants and their window might already be closed so things happen that quickly in the nfl where a team went from a potential favorite to uh take home their first title to an afterthought and maybe an also-ran.

Starting point is 00:35:49 People are talking about the Bills' window being closed after that loss yesterday. I don't think that's the case. I think as long as you have a Josh Allen, a Lamar Jackson, a Joe Burrow, I don't think your window is closed as far as the chiefs i think the number one comparison with those patriots teams is the sense of it being inevitable that they would figure out a way to win and um it feels that way watching the chiefs now where no lead is safe. Nobody's ever feeling comfortable playing them. And, you know, one of my buddies sent me a text yesterday saying, oh, I took the Bills. It went out right.

Starting point is 00:36:33 What do you think? And I said, I would never bet against Patrick Mahomes. You know, if you want to give me some points, maybe, because you don't get any bonus points for winning pretty. But, you know, you just don't bet against Mahomes. Just like for 20 years, you don't bet against Tom Brady. And that goes beyond. It goes to the Chiefs franchise, the Patriots franchise.

Starting point is 00:36:55 People are assuming that the trajectory of the Chiefs will continue at this rate. If it does, I'll be blown away. You know, tip of the cap to them for an impressive job. But I think we should compare those things when we get there. Right now, they still are at the same level as those 90s Cowboys teams, where they've won three championships in four years. If they three-peat, that takes them to a different class because no one's done that in the Super Bowl era.

Starting point is 00:37:29 The Packers have done it twice pre-Super Bowl. But for the Super Bowl era, nobody's done that. And 100 years from now, even if some team goes on to win eight championships in 10 years, the excellence of the New England Patriots over that 20-year span in terms of longevity, consistent excellence, and having arguably the greatest coach and greatest quarterback together for that long, it's always going to be part of NFL history.

Starting point is 00:38:03 And the Patriots should feel very secure in that. And, you know, nothing to be ashamed of. Like I say, tip your hat to the Chiefs for all they've done. They're not quite knocking on Tom Brady's door quite yet. Yeah, exactly. I'm glad that you said that, and I'm glad that you tied that into Brady as well because a lot of what we're hearing in the national narrative

Starting point is 00:38:24 is Patrick Mahomes is leading his team to another Super Bowl yep that's it we put him in the goat category now it's time to really seriously consider him especially if he pulls off the three-peat um I think he becomes deeper into the conversation at that point Dan but I don't think he tops that conversation yet Tom Brady has 35 postseason wins. Patrick Mahomes has 17. He has the potential to get 18 in two weeks. You're still looking at a lot of football that needs to be played. When it comes to the dynasty of the Chiefs as opposed to the dynasty of the Patriots, you look at the six that the Patriots won in the compact time that they did it in, and it becomes so much more magnified in terms

Starting point is 00:39:06 of being able to reinvent yourself on the fly the Patriots never rebuilt in that era they only retooled they reinvented themselves they changed their image a little bit but the Patriots were in contention for nearly two decades every single season without fail that That's amazing. That is a feat that if you're a Patriots fan, you should always hang your hat on that. Anyone looking at what the Chiefs are doing and saying it tarnishes or cheapens the Patriots legacy or lessens the accomplishments that they've had, I don't think they're giving the Patriots a fair shake there at all. This is a franchise that has done what no other franchise in my estimation in professional sports has ever done and maybe it will never be equaled again in terms of the success that robert craft

Starting point is 00:39:52 had in crafting this team with tom brady as his quarterback and bill belichick as his head coach even if they do win this matchup in super bowl 59 in two weeks against the eagles i still don't see them at the same level that the Patriots are at just yet. The same page, Mike. I would say that if anything, I will say I would feel comfortable about them making an argument, both Mahomes and the Chiefs, making an argument for number two on all of those lists behind only Brady and the Patriots.

Starting point is 00:40:28 What can I say, Dan? Thank you so much for coming by today and bringing your wisdom, your counsel, your insight here to Lockdown Patriots when it comes to Mike Vrabel, when it comes to potential Patriots free agent and draft targets,

Starting point is 00:40:40 and most of all, when it comes to helping to cement the Pats legacy for many years to come could not ask for more my friend before i let you go please let everyone know where they can reach out to you interact with you and what you got on the horizon from dan kelly in the future bud excellent well first of all always a pleasure being here i could talk ball with you for hours as we've done but uh recording it and sending it out to people, I hope they enjoy it as much as we do, because I know I could talk to you for hours. As far as I'm concerned, social media

Starting point is 00:41:13 is the easiest place to find me at the moment. It's Dan Kelly, K-E-L-L-E-Y, six, six. And that's throughout social media, always updating, posting things. I have a couple of potential big announcements from a personal standpoint on the horizon and not quite ready to let those launch yet, but hopefully you'll let me back on the program before too long. And I'll be able to share that with the listeners as well.

Starting point is 00:41:43 Definitely. And like I said, folks, whenever Dan puts pen to paper or voice to microphone, always make it appointment listening, appointment reading. You'll be entertained. You'll be informed. And you'll have wisdom and counsel beyond your years.

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