Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots, Denver Broncos Crossover: Can Bailey Zappe Conquer Denver Defense?

Starting point is 00:00:00 You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome into a special crossover Thursday edition Locked On Broncos, Locked On Patriots. I'm Sarah Bettinger, co-host of the Locked On Broncos podcast here with Mike DeBate, the host of Locked On Patriots over there. Mike and I were just talking off the air a little bit about some history between the Denver Broncos and the New England Patriots. This ain't Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, but it's December football. And there's some really intriguing things going on with both of these teams.

Starting point is 00:00:53 But this crossover Thursday episode, it's brought to you by PrizePix. And that's the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports. Go to prizepix.com slash lockdown NFL and use code all lowercase locked on NFL for a first deposit match up to $100. And want to say a huge shout out and thank you to all of the listeners of Lockdown Broncos, Lockdown Patriots, where you know it's right here on the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every single day, free and available anywhere that you listen to podcasts, as well as you can watch the show and see our pretty faces here on YouTube and always love engaging in the comment section. I'm sure Mike, it's really, you know, this year, especially I'm sure it's all fine and dandy there

Starting point is 00:01:36 in the comment section on YouTube, but Hey, looking forward to this game, looking forward to some of these big storylines. You and I were texting back and forth before recording this week. There's some really interesting things going on in New England this year that I'm sure Broncos fans have heard rumblings, but I bet they're eager to kind of get more of the inside scoop from you who's around the organization every single day of the week. What's going on with the Patriots? What's the big storyline as they come into the Mile High City here on Christmas Eve? Well, I think the biggest story in New England right now is whether or not Bill Belichick just coached his penultimate game as the Patriots head coach at Gillette Stadium. You're looking at a 24-year tenure that is really in serious doubt right now. The Patriots at 3-11 are once again

Starting point is 00:02:21 on the outside looking in in the playoff picture. It'll be the third time in four years they've missed the playoffs. And look, this is very difficult for Patriots fans to swallow. There's no question about it. This is a team that almost had an automatic berth every year in terms of where they were in the standings, division titles, things of that nature. It's really a bitter pill for Bats fans to swallow. But bottom line, Sarah, I think what people are now looking at is whether or not the team has fallen to such depths that

Starting point is 00:02:51 it's time to clean house, level the foundation, and rebuild from scratch. And if that's the case, Bill Belichick may have to go along with it. Now, there's a double-edged sword to that. You're talking a 24-year veteran of a head coach here in New England, arguably the greatest to ever do it on the sidelines, and someone with an impeccable resume, with legendary status, being let go. Do you let him walk out the door and walk to a team, one of which is a rival of the Denver Broncos, a division rival where a lot of people may think that he ends up in Los Angeles with the Chargers next year, allow him to go and essentially pursue a Super Bowl like they did a couple of years ago with Tom Brady? Or have things deteriorated to the point where Robert Kraft knows that a new voice is needed? These are all questions for the Patriots that need to be

Starting point is 00:03:39 answered. But if you're asking Bill Belichick, he's going to tell you right off the bat, I'm focused on Denver. I'm on to the Broncos. We asked him earlier this week. That's exactly how he responded. He'll continue to do so until the end of the season. One thing I will tell you, and having covered Bill Belichick now for six seasons, when he says he's on to the next team, he means it. He's focused on the Denver Broncos.

Starting point is 00:04:02 That is where his focus will be this weekend. He knows how to compartmentalize better than probably most human beings, doesn't he? I mean, he seems that way. I believe him when he says I'm focused on this or we're onto this. I believe him wholeheartedly. And it sounds like that's officially the case from your perspective as well. Kind of makes it interesting, too, from the Patriots perspective. I mean, one game out after the Panthers winning last weekend with all the Bill Belichick stuff

Starting point is 00:04:28 going on and potential changes. It's like, can we even start thinking about, you know, Caleb Williams or Drake May or things like that? I know I'm throwing a curve ball at you because it kind of just came to me as you were talking there. What's the vibe as far as that goes? Is that kind of just way on the back burner right now, as far thinking about those two guys or is it not even those two guys where where are you guys at in in the the Patriots side of things with the NFL draft because that's obviously looming large as well absolutely

Starting point is 00:04:55 I think that's a great question and to be honest with you say or I think they're linked um a lot of people are wondering whether Bill Belichick is the right guy in at the helm right now to make this pick I mean don't forget the last time the Patriots had a pick this high was number 15 a couple of years ago choosing Mac Jones the first year his rookie season looked like a pretty good draft choice the last two years not so much the Patriots have not been up this high you got to go all the way back when Drew Bledsoe was drafted number one overall that kind of kick-started the franchise into relevance and then obviously after that the new england patriots drafting tom brady in the sixth round in 2000 really went to the next level but at the same time

Starting point is 00:05:37 people are looking at bill belichick's recent draft record they're looking at the misses more than the hits and there have been quite a few n Nikhil Harry is one of the names that pops right off the page and being a first rounder that just did not pan out. You look at some of the guys that are on this roster right now, a second rounder in Taequann Thornton that hasn't panned out the way they'd hoped. A lot of people are saying Mac Jones is a bust because of what has happened the last two years. Is Bill the right guy to be choosing these personnel members that are going to be the cornerstone of the franchise for years to come? If the Patriots do have that top pick, it's impossible not to look at a quarterback. You have to be able to build on solid quarterback play. That's what the league is predicated on right now. But I don't think I'm stretching the imagination and any Patriots fan will tell you

Starting point is 00:06:23 this team's needs go much deeper than just a change of quarterback or a change of coach. There's a lot of upgrades at a lot of positions that the Patriots need to look at. Kind of a topsy-turvy situation because the Broncos are used to being in that seat at this time of year. And like you said, the Patriots and fan base there, they're used to competing for the playoffs. But that's really the biggest storyline for this Denver Broncos team is after years of drought. I mean, there's a chance at 21 percent, according to the New York Times playoff predictor at this point. But you're telling me there's a chance the Broncos could make the playoffs here in the 2023, 2024 season. And that is, I mean, a lot on Sean Payton, quite honestly. I mean, it's really been a masterful job by him getting the guys prepared, mitigating weaknesses, maximizing

Starting point is 00:07:11 strengths, getting Vance Joseph on, on page with that, the defensive personnel and really changing the culture overnight. And when you say that, that can be kind of a overused term, right? When you talk about changing culture in an NFL program, but I don't think there's a bigger example of, of a difference between cultures than Nathaniel Hackett's Denver Broncos and Sean Payton's Denver Broncos. It's kind of like, uh, the, the kids were running the team last year and the parents came in and started running the team. And I, I don't say that to bag on Nathaniel Hackett any more than needs be done.

Starting point is 00:07:45 I know you guys have seen out there in New York, but it really does have that sort of vibe where, man, it's just a level of seriousness. It's like you're a legitimate operation at this point. And the Broncos do have that feel, but fans are very nervous about this game, to be honest with you, wondering if Bill Belichick is going to be the Grinch that steals Christmas, because we know that, as you said, he can compartmentalize. He keeps his focus where it needs to be on the current game. And so how's that chess match going to go

Starting point is 00:08:14 between Sean Payton and Bill Belichick, two of the great coaches of the last 20 plus years in the NFL? Going to be fascinating to see how that unfolds. And there's a lot of really good matchups within this game. I know that, you know, the Broncos are seven and seven and just gave up 42 to the lions and all the Patriots are three and 11, but this is going to be a good chess match between two good coaches. And I think a better game, maybe one of those deep cuts. If you're thinking about it, like listening to a good album or, you know, something like that, it's one of those deep cuts on the album for NFL fans, but still, I think going to be a good game with some matchups and we're going to break down. I've got questions about why Bailey Zappi, I mean, could he carve up the Broncos defense a little bit? I know Mike's got some

Starting point is 00:08:57 matchups he's looking forward to as well. And we're going to break those down here on this crossover Thursday edition, locked on Broncos locked on Patriots. This crossover Thursday episode is brought to you by FanDuel. As the weather gets colder, the NFL offers, they stay hot on FanDuel. And right now new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 Moneyline bet. That's $150 if your team wins. If you've been thinking about joining FanDuel, there's no better time to get in on the action than right now. The app is so easy to use. There's a wide range of betting options,

Starting point is 00:09:37 including spreads, player props, over-unders, and more. I know that I use FanDuel every single week to look at spreads, to look at over-unders, to make my game picks and predictions. The Broncos in this game against the Patriots, they're six and a half point favorites. Very generous against the Patriots there. And the over-under is set at just 34 and a half points. So FanDuel is not expecting this to be a high scoring affair by any means.

Starting point is 00:10:02 But you can visit FanDuel.com slash locked on and kick off the NFL season. FanDuel, official partner of the NFL. As we jump into the second quarter, Locked On Patriots, Locked On Broncos, crossover Thursday edition. Want to say thank you

Starting point is 00:10:21 and give a huge shout out once again to all of you listeners of the shows right here on the Lockdown Podcast Network, where you know it's your team every day, free and available anywhere that you listen to podcasts as well as on YouTube, where you can join the community over there. Mike, looking forward to the matchups in this game individually, both offensively and defensively for the Broncos. I think that's where the real chess matches where Sean Payton calls the plays offensively. We know the defense has always historically been Bill Belichick's forte. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this. I mean, where do you see the top matchups in this game between the Broncos and the Patriots going into Sunday?

Starting point is 00:10:59 Well, if there is a bright spot in the Patriots arsenal this season, it has been their run defense. The Pats have been excellent defending against the run, and I'm wondering if that can continue in mile high. Guys like Devon Godchild, Lawrence Guy, Dietrich Wise coming over and setting the edge so that way guys like Christian Barmore can play more of a traditional interior to be able to stop the run have been excellent. And New England's anticipation has been phenomenal. One of the big things that a lot of people have said about Bill Belichick and the reason why he's on the hot seat is because a lot of fans, media,

Starting point is 00:11:32 and national pundits alike have said, well, what has he done for the team lately? Take a look at that run defense, and that's got Bill Belichick's blueprint all over it. So if you're wondering what the Patriots may do to try to slow Denver, they're definitely going to want to take away their run game. But the more intriguing matchups there, in my opinion, for the Pats and especially for the Broncos right now, is going to be whether or not Russell Wilson and that offense, that passing offense of the Denver Broncos, can exploit a very thin secondary for New England right now, particularly their cornerbacks. New England has suffered losses. They've suffered season-ending injuries to promising rookie

Starting point is 00:12:10 Christian Gonzalez, who had high hopes, came in, was playing at such a high level. He's gone for the season. J.C. Jackson came in, played a serviceable corner on the perimeter. Unfortunately, due to some personal issues, he's right now almost on indefinite leave, you might as well say. We really don't know at this point whether or not he's going to suit up when and if for the rest of the season. So if the Patriots are down Gonzalez and JC Jackson, now all of a sudden you're down to three primary corners that could really do the job. Jonathan Jones is their best corner. He's their most versatile corner. The problem is he's dealt with injuries all season long, and he was very hobbled in the

Starting point is 00:12:50 game against the Kansas City Chiefs over the weekend. That's going to be a problematic matchup for the Patriots. And now you're down to only three corners that can really play at a high level and play healthy. Miles Bryant in in the slot sean wade and new newly acquired alex austin the rookie coming over he got his first start in his first action last week it's a growing pains right now for him so you know you look at russell wilson you look at guys like courtland sutton and you look at someone like jerry judy right now these guys are probably licking their chops thinking about this patriotots secondary. That's going to free up bodies for Adam Trotman to maybe get open and make his presence felt as a tight end. Patriots may have to get some safety help over. It's going to be problematic for

Starting point is 00:13:35 the Pats to defend in the secondary. If I'm Denver, I'm looking to exploit that because the Patriots are definitely vulnerable there right now. And you definitely hope from the Broncos perspective that they would try to do that because the passing game has been an area where you've kind of just held out hope all season that they're going to find a way to get it right. It's just been so sporadic, the success that they've had there. I mean, early on in the season, you see all these moon balls to Marvin Mims and now all of a sudden it's week 16 and you're wondering where have the moon balls to Marvin Mims. And now all of a sudden it's week 16 and you're wondering, where have the moon balls to Marvin Mims been? You know, why aren't we running that play?

Starting point is 00:14:09 You know, and Jerry Judy, he's had his bouts with inconsistency. Cortland Sutton makes one or two, maybe three amazing plays every game. The Broncos passing attack, just it needs to find a way to get going. So from what you're saying here, what the Patriots are struggling with injury-wise could be an opportunity. And you never know when Greg Dulcich is going to make his return. I know the Broncos opened up his 21 day window last week. So we'll see if maybe he can make a comeback. But on the other side of things, I'll tell you right now, Mike, what Broncos fans are very worried about after allowing three touchdown catches to an Iowa Hawkeye, Sam Laporta this past

Starting point is 00:14:46 weekend. They're worried about Hunter Henry and the ability that he has to be a mismatch at the tight end position. Broncos have, especially when Vance Joseph was the head coach, but even including now when he's the defensive coordinator, they've struggled to cover the tight end position. Of course, nobody can really cover Travis Kelsey at, you know, Broncos fans are always wondering who's going to be the guy to shut down Travis Kelsey. Well, nobody really can cover him, but tight ends in general have been a struggle for the Broncos. So offensively, when the Patriots are out there, Bailey Zappi, how he's operating this offense, we saw quite a bit of success, especially early in that Pittsburgh game a couple of weeks ago,

Starting point is 00:15:24 kind of was rooting for him against the Chiefs this past weekend. Of course, we saw just one too many mistakes there on that side. But do you feel like Bailey Zappi and this offense, the chemistry that he has, at least with Hunter Henry, do you feel like that that's an area that the Patriots can maybe have some success offensively? I know it's been tough sledding at some points this season, but it feels like maybe over the last couple of weeks, at least from what I've seen and what I've been watching, it looks like he's maybe getting a better handle on how they want to do things. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And quite frankly, I believe Zappi can exploit some of the difficulties

Starting point is 00:15:57 that Denver has had defending the pass. Now, do I expect them to shore up from the performance they had against the Lions last week? Absolutely. I don't think we're going to see a repeat of that. Denver is going to be very diligent to make sure that doesn't happen. But where Zappi is at his best is operating on a play action. And in order to facilitate play action, New England wants to use the run. So I'm going to look for them to try to establish Ezekiel Elliott, get him going on the ground, and try to get some traction there. Maybe even

Starting point is 00:16:25 the second-year player Kevin Harris. Now, the problem with Bailey right now, Sarah, is that when you turn up the pressure and the last two teams to play the Patriots, the Steelers and the Chiefs, turn up the pressure in the second half, Bailey doesn't exude that confidence. He's not that same type of playmaker. He's showing difficulties in his pre-snap and post-snap reads. A little bit slow in his processing time. And these are growing pains that a normal second-year quarterback would have, but they're magnified now because he's supposed to kind of come in and mop up the mess that the Patriots made for him earlier this season. So there's a lot right there to contend with. And then you factor in all the injuries along the offensive line for the pats

Starting point is 00:17:05 yeah it's problematic for the patriots to move the ball but if done effectively and everything rolls their way there's a chance that they can make it happen not a good one but a chance there's a chance that's right yeah that's that's going to be fascinating to see because the broncos kind of their past rush was running into a stone wall against Detroit. I mean, I knew it was going to be a tough battle, but man, they everything that has worked for the Broncos this season in terms of rushing the quarterback did not work against Detroit. So they will hope that pass rush can get back to making plays and creating just the week

Starting point is 00:17:39 before that Detroit game against Los Angeles. They had six different players with a sack on, well, I guess both Justin Herbert and Easton stick. So you're spreading the love around in that way. And then you go and you get, you just run into an absolute brick wall against Detroit. So going to be fascinating to see how that all plays out this weekend. Again, the volatility of the Denver Broncos this season has been a little frustrating to say the least, but I mean, you'll kind of live with it if you're in the playoff mix here in late December and man, what's the keys to victory for both of these teams?

Starting point is 00:18:10 Mike and I, we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about what these teams need to do, obviously building off of these great matchups that we've talked about. But as we get into the fourth quarter of this episode, locked on Patriots, locked on Broncos, we're going to talk about these matchups that could win or lose these teams the game.

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Starting point is 00:19:46 Terms apply. As we jump into the fourth quarter here of this crossover Thursday edition, locked on Broncos, locked on Patriots, I want to give another huge shout out and say thank you to all of our everydayers, the everyday listeners of the shows out there who make us part of your day, however you choose to do so, we really appreciate you. Mike, it comes down to this. What's the key to victory here for the Patriots? If they're going to go into Denver and get a win, get to 4-11 this season, and like you said, Bill Belichick, I mean, the clock could be running out there.

Starting point is 00:20:19 What does this team have to do to go to Denver and get a victory? Well, it sounds simple, Sarah, but it hasn't been simple for the New England Patriots. Take care of the football, protect it, don't turn it over, and really hurt themselves with costly penalties. We've seen over and over again, repeatedly, especially last week against the Chiefs, where this team started off strong, had a good start to an offensive drive, and all of a sudden it stalls because of an absent-minded penalty, for lack of a better term. The Patriots actually started the game against the Chiefs with a 46-yard kickoff return by Jalen Rager, and that was called back because of a holding call

Starting point is 00:20:58 on special teams ace Brendan Schooler. You can't have that if you're the New England Patriots. They have to play smarter football, give the team an opportunity to convert, and if you do that, that would lead to a competent second half for the Patriots, and they haven't been able to put that together. Both sides of the ball, offensively and defensively, need to play complementary football for four full quarters. If they do that, they have a puncher's chance to be able to hang with anybody. If they don't do that, then you see results like you've seen all season long, a blowout by the Dallas Cowboys, a blowout at the hands of the New Orleans Saints, a six to nothing shutout at the hands of the Los Angeles Chargers. These are all games that just absolutely exploited

Starting point is 00:21:43 every flaw that the Patriots had. This can't happen going forward. So if the Patriots are going to win this game against Denver, who are very opportunistic in being able to capitalize on turnovers, New England can't turn the ball over. They have to protect it, and they have to do a much better job than they've been doing. Yeah, I think it's an interesting thing about these two teams, right? You know your team is at a certain spot in terms of its overall goodness when you go into a game and you say, hey, the team has to do all these things right in order to win as opposed to, well, unless this goes wrong, they're winning a game. I mean, we've seen both the Broncos and the Patriots in different spots like that before, haven't we, throughout the course of their history where it's like, hey, stuff's going to have to go wrong in order for them to lose the game. Now it's, I think for both sides, even with the Broncos

Starting point is 00:22:32 this season and the Patriots right now, it's like, what has to go right? I mean, you need all these different factors. You could copy and paste a lot of what you just said about the Patriots into the Broncos situation. I mean, playing two halves offensively, it's been a big deal for this team, not turning the ball over. If you turn the ball over and you're the Denver Broncos right now, you're basically asking, or you might as well punt on third down, give the game up right away. Because if you're turning the ball over, they haven't been able to really overcome that very often this season. So I think for the Broncos in this game, a big key to victory is getting out to an early lead and really they're trying something a little bit new these last couple of weeks, Mike, they've been trying to not only script the beginning of the game,

Starting point is 00:23:15 but Sean Payton has been drawing up a script there at halftime as well, because the offense seems to only be excelling on script at this point. And so I think having that against Detroit, we saw quite a bit of success. And so I think having that against Detroit, we saw quite a bit of success. Honestly, I know the Broncos didn't look like they had much success with anything against Detroit, but the script was successful for them. They opened the game with a really good drive. Unfortunately, Russell Wilson got the ball smacked out from behind to kind of cut it off at its knees. And then to open the third quarter, they had a third quarter touchdown drive, which is kind of like seeing a lunar eclipse or, or seeing a Yeti right now for

Starting point is 00:23:50 the Denver Broncos. It's been pretty crazy and rare to see that. So I think for them, they got to get off to a hot start. You want to make a team like the Patriots right now with a backup quarterback in, you want to make them play from behind, which plays into your strengths defensively for Denver, which is your secondary and your pass rush. If you can do that, I think you got a good chance, especially to keep the crowd in the game. The last thing you want is the crowd booing your offense as you get shut down on another third down, right? And the Broncos fan base, they will do that. They will boo this team, the offense specifically off the field if there's too many three and outs. So that's really the key for this team, I think, is getting out to an early lead, executing when you're on script and making

Starting point is 00:24:33 sure that you are converting those drives that are successful into touchdowns and not just field goals. But kind of like you were saying, I really get the vibe that these two teams, they need a lot to go right in order to win each week right now, which is kind of just indicative of where they're both at. Absolutely, without any question. And you mentioned Denver's secondary. That's as big a key as any for the New England Patriots to avoid any type of egregious turnovers. Just to give you an example as to what the Patriots are up against turnover-wise and not protecting the football, 17 years in a row now, they finished with a positive turnover differential. That streak is in serious jeopardy. They're minus eight with three games to play. So this team right

Starting point is 00:25:16 now is in uncharted territory with self-inflicted wounds that just seem to plague this team over and over again. We've got one of the best in the business, Pat Sertan, on the other side of that ball that right now would love to make life miserable for the second-year quarterback, Bailey Zappi, on Sunday. So that's something I'm going to be watching very closely. Yeah, absolutely. That secondary's got to take it personal after giving up five touchdowns to Jared Goff and really giving up pretty much whatever the Detroit lions wanted to do offensively.

Starting point is 00:25:46 I think for the Denver Broncos, you mentioned it earlier. Can they run the ball against this really tough Patriots run defense? I mean, that, that is a well-coached unit gap integrity. They play very fast up on that defensive front. They're quick off the ball and they don't let anything cheap buy them.

Starting point is 00:26:01 Right. So it's been a struggle for the Broncos. Javante Williams coming off a really, really bad game against Detroit and kind of some tough sledding this season. Overall, Jaleel McLaughlin, the exciting undrafted rookie, he's kind of hit a bit of a wall as well. The Broncos don't use Samaje Pirine a ton as a runner. They'll use him a lot in their two-minute situation, tons on third downs, but for whatever reason, he's not carrying the rock a ton for this team. So we'll see if the run running game for Denver can get

Starting point is 00:26:30 anything going against this Patriots defense, but I'm excited for this game, Mike, I'm excited for fans to get an opportunity on Christmas Eve to watch these two teams play. Obviously the Broncos have some playoff implications, potentially a win against the Patriots would give them their fifth AFC victory of the season, which of course is very important this time of year. And for the Patriots, it sounds like things are kind of shaping up for a fascinating off season. Of course, Cody and I, we, we resonate with that. We know all about that in terms of the unknown going into the off season, but any final thoughts on this game from your side of things, I think you're shaping up for a pretty good one here. Yeah, I think it will be a pretty good one. And look, the Patriots are going to come to play. I think a lot of people are looking at the 3-11

Starting point is 00:27:13 record and assuming that the Patriots are just going to tank the rest of the way because they want that optimal level draft pick. And the only way to do that is to continue to lose games. Now, does that mean that they're going to come take it to the broncos and i think they're going to storm through absolutely not there's nothing that's been easy for the patriots this season so i don't expect this to be an easy game on either side of the ball ultimately i do think the broncos are playing for a little bit of pride they're playing for getting to the playoffs and trying to keep those hopes alive they know they need a win desperately to do that. I think this is the team with their backs up against the wall a little bit more.

Starting point is 00:27:49 And we're going to keep this close. But I do like the Broncos in this situation because the game is at home. And again, I think they're playing with a little bit of a bad taste in their mouth from Detroit. And Wengland is as well. But I think it's going to be tougher for them to rebound because of all the injuries that they have and still dealing with some inexperience on offense that ultimately will probably make them fall in this matchup. I'm with you on that.

Starting point is 00:28:13 Absolutely. A hundred percent of the way. And we can't thank you all enough for joining the show, for listening every single day and making us part of your day, however you choose to do so. You can also check out Lockdown has launched the first ever national sports 24-7 streaming channel on YouTube. Pretty cool. Lockdown Sports Today is here for you 24-7 covering the top sports stories of the day with the local experts of Lockdown. Plus, national shows covering every league.

Starting point is 00:28:38 Go to Lockdown Sports Today on YouTube to subscribe to their first ever national sports 24 seven streaming channel. We appreciate you Broncos and Patriots fans for tuning into this crossover Thursday edition, and we will see, and you know, talk to all of you very soon.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots, Denver Broncos Crossover: Can Bailey Zappe Conquer Denver Defense?

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