Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots’ “Forged In Foxborough” Reveals Front Office Dynamics

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

The New England Patriots decision making trio of Mike Vrabel, Eliot Wolf, and Ryan Cowden were showcased in the first episode of the team’s new docuseries - “Forged In Foxborough.” What’d we learn about their working relationship?Also, TreVeyon Henderson was at the heart of one of the biggest draft weekend decisions made by the New England Patriots. After the docuseries’ first episode, we have more details regarding said decision. Meanwhile, other observations from the show that left a lasting impression.Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms…🎧 https://link.chtbl.com/LOPatriots?sid=YouTubeLocked On NFL League-Wide: Every Team, Fantasy, Draft & More🎧 https://linktr.ee/LockedOnNFL#patriots #newenglandpatriotsSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!FanDuelRight now, new customers can get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA.Skylight CalendarRight now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch Calendars by going to Skylightcal.com/NFL.LinkedInPost your job for free at LinkedIn.com/LOCKEDONNFL. Terms and conditions apply.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)

a behind the scenes look at the relationship between Vrabel, Cowden, and Wolf. That's where we start on this episode of Locked On Patriots. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I'm your host, Nick Cattles, born and raised in New England. Your New England Patriots expert, host of the Everything Pats podcast, co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots

podcast with Nick Cattles, and also a Sports Talk Show host veteran. On today's episode, the details of one of the biggest draft weekend decisions are revealed. And we get video proof of how much the Patriots, let's be honest, were feeling themselves early in the 2025 NFL draft. But first, a real time look

of how the front office works together. We appreciate you joining the show, making us your first listen and for being an everydayer, the Locked On Patriots podcast is a proud partner of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team, every day. Forged in Foxborough is a new docu-series from the Patriots. It's on YouTube. If you haven't watched the first episode, I would highly recommend the first episode

of this docu-series. And in that first episode, what we saw was a real-time representation of the Power Trio working well together. Now, who is the Power Trio? Who consists of that trio? Well, Mike Vrabel, obviously, is a part of that trio. Elliot Wolf is a part of that trio. And Ryan Cowden is also a part of that trio.

The guys who right there sitting in that draft room were making the decisions. The power trio within the Patriots organization in front of the cameras and for all of us to see during this first episode of Forge in Foxborough. And I thought it showed us an awful lot. Let's begin with Ryan Cowden. Cowden during the first episode mentions that he has known Elliot Wolf for about 20 years. Now he hasn't worked with Elliot Wolf before but he has some kind of a relationship with Wolf because they've both been in NFL scouting for a couple of decades and when you work that long in the league you are bound to run into each other have conversations so there is an

existing relationship between Cowden and Wolf. And sometimes I think that gets overlooked. When Mike Vrabel brought Cowden in, as soon as he got the job here in New England as the head coach, we all wondered, what did that mean for Wolf? What did that mean for his future? Well Cowden has a relationship with Wolf. It doesn't mean they're close, but they had some kind of relationship for a number of years before Cowden was brought in. They've obviously had conversations between each other

before they worked together here in Foxborough. So the fact that Ryan Cowden has known Elliot Wolf for almost 20 years or about 20 years, I do think that means something. And I thought you could see that relationship and really respect between the two guys throughout this first episode and especially during draft weekend. It was also obvious if you were watching that Elliot Wolf was the point man in this operation.

Doesn't mean he made the final decision. I'll get to that a little bit later. But watching this first episode of Forged in Foxborough, it was obvious that Elliott Wolf played a major role in this draft. He was the point man. He was the guy that was constantly on the phone. And what I found interesting was the Wolf-Cowden collaboration was key to this operation. The back and forth between Wolf and Cowden, it was a healthy dialogue.

Wolf kept going to Ryan Cowden asking him his thoughts about trades, in which trade scenario made the most sense, would they want to move down, would they want to move up. In those conversations from what we saw in this first episode, those conversations were mostly had by Wolf and Cowden. And their collaboration throughout the draft was obviously vital to how things went during that weekend. Meanwhile, Mike Vrabel, who I thought would be a little bit more influential, was not as overwhelming as expected in that room. And what I mean by that is, if you expected Mike Vrabel to be standing in front of the room, giving directions, giving orders, asking Elliot Wolf and Cowden certain questions, putting their feet to the fire.

From what we saw, and we have to remember, this is from the team, which I'll talk about in a minute, but from what we saw during this first episode, Vrabel let Wolfe and Cowden do their job. He let them go back and forth and have these conversations. He would weigh in every once in a while, but his influence in that room during those conversations was not as overwhelming as I had expected.

And so that was a little bit of a surprise. Now with that said, Vrabel absolutely had final say. And there were a couple of instances where Elliot Wolf would look at Vrabel and say, are we okay doing this? Are you okay doing this? And I thought that showed us what we've been talking about over the last few months,

that this is Mike Vrabel's program, he is running it, and he is going to make the final decisions. He talks to the scouting staff, he works with Cowden and Wolf, he gives them the player profiles, they go to him with thoughts, They go to him with scenarios. They have these conversations with other NFL GMs and, you know, player personnel chiefs. And after those conversations, inevitably it ends up in front of Vrabel and he gives the thumbs

up or thumbs down. And we did see that in a couple of instances during this first episode that Vrabel, yes, he does have the final say he does have the final yes or no but he's not getting involved within the minutiae in bothering Cowden and Wolf he's not getting in the way he's letting them have these conversations and then they loop him in I thought that Vrabel really gave the room the draft room I thought he gave the room, the draft room, I thought he gave the room to the front office for the most part. Now when the decision had to be made and he made it, he was obviously involved at a high

level and he got on the phone and he spoke to each prospect and Cowden didn't, which makes sense. The phone went from Cam Williams making the call, who's no longer with the program as we know, went to Denver. We found that out last week, but Cam Williams calls the prospect, gives the phone to Elliot Wolf first. Wolf talks to the player, says, we're drafting you. Phone goes to Vrabel, and then from Vrabel, it goes to Robert Kraft.

But Wolf, he was absolutely involved, and he was a big part of what was going on during that draft. And you could see it throughout that episode. But I just thought it was interesting that Vraeble, I'm not going to say hands off, he wasn't hands off. I mean, don't get it twisted. Again, he's got the final say and he is involved and he has major influence. But it seemed like it wasn't an overwhelming influence

in that room. It seemed like everybody had their voice heard, everybody knew their role, and they had a back and forth that was fruitful. And I know we've heard the word collaboration a lot, and some people, they get all freaked out, they get cringed out by the word collaboration. Collaboration is what happens

That's what happens in front offices. That's what happens across the NFL. It's what happens in the NBA It doesn't mean that you know anybody can make a decision the final decision goes to one person We know that's rable But what we saw in that video from forged in Foxboro during the draft What we saw throughout that video was a collaboration. Wolf and Cowden dealing with all the conversations, getting back to Vrabel. Vrabel, what do you think? Do you wanna do it?

Yes or no? Boom, it's done. Now, as I said a couple of minutes ago, we do have to remember that this is from the team. And we're not seeing, at least I don't think we're seeing the entire picture. So from what we saw, Vrabel's influence was not overwhelming in the room and he wasn't breathing down the neck of Wolf and Cowden, but that's what we saw and what we see is what we're being allowed to see. So we don't know if there were other moments that were captured on video that might represent

a difference of opinion regarding this relationship between these three guys. This is what we see and this is what we see because this is what the Patriots want us to see. Now the conversation about the pick at number 38 I thought was eye-opening and we'll get to that in just a couple of minutes in the next segment, but just remember that this is a Patriots produced show and they are going to show us what they want to show us. They had a conversation about Kyle Williams, for example, during, you know, the senior bowl,

and they highlighted Kyle Williams and how he had the best day for a receiver. That doesn't get into the first episode if they don't draft Kyle Williams. So there's gonna be some pumping of the tires. But from what I saw, it certainly seemed like Cowden, Wolf, Vrabel worked very well together. They respect each other.

And Vrabel gave his lieutenants in the front office the latitude to go back and forth and hammer some things out and then come to him and say yes or no. And that's the way it should work. And so I thought it was a really fun look. And it gives us a little deeper of an understanding as far as how these guys work together and those relationships that they have formed, especially from Elliot Wolf's side who is new to this equation given Cowden and Vrabel work together in Tennessee. We now have the details behind one of the biggest decisions the Pats made during draft weekend. That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode

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It must be crazy. Well, right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch calendars by going to skylightcal.com slash NFL. Go to skylightcal.com slash NFL for $30 off your 15 inch calendar. That is S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T-C-A-L.com slash NFL. The Patriots must really love Trevion Henderson. That was one of the takeaways I had when watching the first episode of Forged in Foxborough. They must love Trevion Henderson because we now have the details of what was offered to them for them to trade the 38th pick in the draft going back several weeks ago. We found out that the Patriots had a deal on the table.

It was offered number 58, number 79 and a 2026 third round pick. So they could have traded number 38 and gotten 58, 79 in a third round pick and next year's draft for that pick that ended up being Trevion Henderson. And putting two and two together, the fact that Houston had the 58th pick in the draft

before they traded it to the Raiders, that tells us Nick Casariel, the Houston Texans, they wanted to jump up 20 spots. They wanted to go from 58 to 38 to draft somebody. We don't know if that would have been Henderson or somebody else, but they desperately wanted to make that jump. And they offered 58, 79 in a third round pick in next year's draft to make that jump. That's a pretty good return for the Patriots. I know you're dropping 20 spots from 38 to 58, but you're talking about, you round pick a third round pick in a third round

pick and next year's draft that's a pretty decent haul for the 38th pick in the draft and the Patriots said no they thought about it they went back and forth Wolf and Cowden had a conversation Vrabel got looped into that conversation. Everybody was talking. All three of those guys were going back and forth with their thoughts, their ideas, what should we do? What should we not do? But in the end, as Elliot Wolf told us right after the second day of the draft, Elliot Wolf had said that there was a debate about the 38th pick.

Now Wolf said that the debate about the 38th pick. Now, Wolf said that the debate about the 38th pick was about a player who ended up getting drafted, which we think is the guard that got drafted by the Miami Dolphins at 37 when the Dolphins traded up to 37 to draft the guard. We say that because there's a reason why they leapfrog the Patriots. And I don't think it's a coincidence that Elliott Wolf is out there telling us that,, we had a back and forth We had a debate about who we were going to pick at number 38 But then that guy was drafted So if you look at it What we didn't know were the details behind what was offered to the Patriots because Wolf also said that they were on the phone

They were talking trade and that they really kind of let the clock go down to about the final minute before the decision was made And that's what you see from this episode of Forged in Foxboro you see that deliberation process and it was about 58 seconds or so When the Patriots made their decision that they were going to draft Henderson and not make the deal. Now a few things about Trevion Henderson, the decision to draft Henderson, the decision to turn down that trade offer. And I start with Ryan Cowden again, because Cowden I thought made the most important comment throughout that back and forth. Elliott Wolf told Cowden what the offer was. He said, look, we have 58-79

in a 20-26 third round pick. He said a third round pick in next year's draft. Cowden takes in that information and Cowden said, quote, these 20 guys are who we think has the biggest impact. Who could have the biggest impact for us like right now? And that's the question that Cowden asked Wolf. And that's the question that inevitably also was put to Vrabel, which is to say, look, we're sitting at 38. If we go from 38 to 58, we have to compare, we've got to look at those 20 guys, the next 20 names on the board. And we have to look at, okay, do we want to side with these 20 guys or do we want to side with who we think will give us the biggest impact?

And they clearly thought at that point, Trevion Henderson, the impact that Henderson could give to this football team in 2025 was much more important than the 20 guys that were going to follow that pick at 38. Much more important. They did not want to lose the opportunity to draft Trevion Henderson. And with that offer on the table that should tell you how much they loved Trevion Henderson. And it also tells us that the Patriots in that moment, they went with best player available because they were looking at their grading system.

They were looking at their board. They saw the next 20 names on their list and they said, no, we want the impact of Henderson because we think he's the best player available. They trusted their board. They trusted their grading of Henderson because we think he's the best player available. They trusted their board. They trusted their grading of Henderson. They believe in him and they believe that his impact day one for this football team is going to be much more crucial than what the other 20 guys could have given them if they decided

to trade from 38 to 50 So I thought that was a great look into the process when Cowden asked that question And they think about it and they inevitably draft Henderson BPA because they trust their board and because they love Henderson Now there was another offer that was on the table for the Patriots and this one was much less sexy. But there is a portion of this conversation that we see where Matt Gros is also on the phone and Matt Gros tells Wolf that Chicago has called and Chicago is offering a seventh round pick to swap 38 and 39.

The Bears were going to be on the clock at 39. They offered the Patriots a seventh round pick to jump up to 38, just swap 38 and 39. And you would have to imagine now maybe I'm wrong, but to me, and I know Mike Reese wrote this as well, he had the same thought. When you're watching this play out, it feels like Ben Johnson now with Chicago had his eyes on Henderson. And if that is the case, if that's the case, then you should feel really good about Henderson. If you didn't feel really good about him already, you should feel really good about him now. Ben Johnson is highly respected, known as one of the best play callers in all of football.

Of course, that time in Detroit, he had two running backs. Who's the guy that Trevion Henderson at times has been compared to? That would be Jameer Gibbs. Johnson had Gibbs in Detroit. So it makes all the sense in the world that Johnson wanted to jump up one spot to draft Henderson, if that's what he wanted to do, because he had David Montgomery and Jameer Gibbs as the one-two punch in Detroit. And he wanted that electricity that Gibbs brings. He wanted that in his backfield and obviously thought Henderson would bring that electricity to his backfield in Chicago. So when we talk about the Patriots,

as I mentioned during draft weekend, they'll have some thunder and lightning, Ramondre Stevenson and Trevion Henderson. Well, that's really what you look at with the Lions. And that's what you're trying to create here. And Ben Johnson was thinking the same thing. I do wonder who Chicago was afraid of. They obviously thought somebody was going

to trade up to 38. And maybe they got word about the Texans and said, Hey, we'll give you the seventh round pick the swap 38 39. So you don't drop 20 spots and you get an extra lottery ticket, but it should make you feel even better about Henderson. The fact that Chicago and Ben Johnson were looking at him and wanted to pull that swap off. One quick thing as well with the Henderson draft pick. Elliott Wolf had a lighter moment with the room when he ends up saying after they draft Henderson, he talks about Vrabel, Cam Williams, and Stretch, John Stryryker and says that he was, you know, pretty much outnumbered three to one.

Those are the three Ohio State guys. And I do think connections matter. Connections matter. The idea that you got three guys that went to Ohio State, they obviously get great information on Trevion Henderson. And that helps the evaluation process. Forged in Foxborough shows the Pats franchise felt like a lot of fans felt during the early portion of the 2025 draft.

That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Borg'd in Foxborough, the video of the draft room told us everything we needed to know about how this organization felt as the draft was moving. It was clear. It was clear to me. If you go back and you watch this episode and you watch the draft room through the Kyle Williams pick when the Patriots draft Williams at 69, go back and just watch the reaction from Vrabel, from Wolfe, from Cowden, from the Scouts in the room, from Cam Williams.

outs in the room from cam Williams, go back and watch everybody's reaction. Once that pick is done with and the vibes, the vibes that I picked up from watching that moment was we are absolutely killing this draft. We are running the show. We are dominating this weekend so far. That was the vibe that I got watching that and I watched it a couple of times. This was a front office. This was a scouting staff. This was an organization. The crafts were in there as well. This was an organization that as they watched the early portion of this draft play out the Drake the That was at the Drake may pick that was last year Nick the will Campbell pick the Trevion Henderson pick

the fact that they decided not to deal the 38th pick and picked Henderson and then drafting Kyle Williams you could sell after the first three picks, this was an organization feeling themselves. They felt fantastic about how the first three picks played out. Now, I'm sure you would watch a lot of teams around the NFL, and I doubt there would be teams that were sitting in the corner in the fetal position after the first couple of rounds, right? Sure, you could look at a lot of footage and every team feels like they did great. But there was just this air of confidence that seeped through as I watched this. I said to myself, these guys are really confident what they've accomplished.

They feel really good. And I remember saying this, I tweeted this as well, when Elliot Wolf spoke to the media after the, I think it was after the second round and third round. And Wolf went out there, it was on Friday night and Wolf goes out there. And I mentioned it at the time, Wolf with the media, that was the most confident that I have ever seen Elliot Wolf with the media. And he just had this swag to him almost of we just killed this. All of you are going to love this. I'm not going to have to face certain questions. Elliot Wolf on that night just seemed to me to show everybody that they were really happy with what they did and what they had accomplished.

And when you watch the video in real time, when this is playing out, when they draft Kyle Williams, you can see that. And I think it goes back to the decision that we discussed in the last segment, deciding not to trade the 38th pick because during that conversation. Vable brings up wide receiver. in the last segment deciding not to trade the 38th pick because during that conversation Vable brings up wide receiver and says something along the lines of you know well maybe we go get you know one of the receivers that we like I read that as if the Patriots made the trade and they went from 38 to 58 then it is a real possibility the Patriots made the trade and they went from 38 to 58, then it is a real possibility

the Patriots would have drafted a wide receiver at 58. Would that receiver have been Kyle Williams? I don't know, but it's quite possible. So when you have that context, when you have that as background information, it makes even more sense why they were very happy in that room. And Elliot Wolf walked out to that press conference on that Friday night, like he had just owned the NFL draft because if they were looking at Kyle Williams and said well if we trade from thirty eight to fifty eight we lose the chance to draft Travion Henderson who would we draft at fifty eight well. Maybe we go with the receiver maybe that guy would end up being Kyle Williams,

and you'd have Williams be the pick at 58. And when you think about what really happened, the Patriots drafted Trevion Henderson at 38, and they end up with Williams at 69. So if they were looking at Williams as a possibility, if not probability at 58, and they got him at 69, when you look back at it, you go, man, we got Travion Henderson, because we didn't pull the trigger on that trade. And we still got a receiver that we love at 69, who we probably would have drafted

at 58. And that means they read the board correctly and they read that moment correctly and When that happens right that's almost like affirmation Because you land Henderson at 38 and then you come back and you get Williams at 69 It means that the process that you just went through which was a difficult debate Because Houston's offer was a good one when you go back and you look at it, if you're Cowden, Vrabel, or Wolf, you feel really good about the decision that you made in real time when you're going up against the clock.

And you say to yourself, we did it right. We landed the guy who's gonna have the biggest impact on our football team right now, and we still ended up with the receiver that we love. We read the board correctly. We read the moment correctly. And our conversation, our process, got us to the right result.

Another thing that stood out to me, and this might have been a little bit of a smaller detail within some of the bigger stuff we've discussed on this episode, but we always talk about top 30 visits during the pre-draft process. Do they matter? How much do they matter? Are teams bringing guys in to try to fool other teams and make them believe that they're interested in those top 30 visit guys?

Or is this team handling their business in the pre-draft process as genuinely as they can? And those top 30 visits are guys that they are genuinely interested in. And I found it compelling that when Vrabel got on the phone with Kyle Williams after the Patriots drafted him, Vrabel mentioned the top 30 visit. And Vrabel told Williams that his top 30 visit made an impact and that everybody in that room fell in love with him and So for this player for this specific draft

with this specific pick the top 30 visit Absolutely meant something I Don't know if the Patriots draft Williams, if it's not for the top 30 visit. The fact that Vrabel went right to that tells me the importance of his visit. And whatever he said in that room,

whatever he did with the coaching staff, Kyle Williams sold himself to the Patriots during that visit. And so we have to stick a pin in that and keep it for future consideration. The next time we see next draft season, we see the top 30 visit names. We should take them seriously because of what variable said to Williams on the phone. Top 30 visits with this regime.

They matter. You know what else matters? Scouting. And that was so obvious throughout this first episode. How much the scouts mean to this operation. And Matt Evans who was the scout who was really fighting for Jared Wilson when the Patriots make the decision to draft Wilson at 95. Evans is all fired up and you know Jared Wilson is crying during his phone call, which was a great moment during this episode.

But Matt Evans, you could see the ownership that he has within that pick. Jared Wilson was his guy. He did the work on him. And Elliott Wolf said during the show during this episode that you know we talked to our scouts. We involve our scouts. Not every team does that. And Elliott Wolf has been in multiple organizations. He has a lot of friends in the NFL.

He said not every front office, not every draft room lets scouts weigh in during the draft, but we do. And I think that's because of Wolf's past as a scout. He respects them. He respects their knowledge and their evaluations. And he makes them a part of that weekend. And you saw that. And I thought that was really cool. And we also saw the impact of Cam Williams, who has now gone to Denver, running scouting meetings on the phone all draft weekend. Somebody's going to have to fill that role. But I walked away from this episode feeling really good about the operation.

I did. But about the communication, the collaboration, I thought it was good. All right. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots on tomorrow. Show an in-depth look at Keon White. Let me know your thoughts on today's topics. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C radio, and don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube

channel. Thank you for making Lockdown Patriots your first listen today for your second listen. Check out Lockdown NFL scouting Kyle crabs Joe Marino will make you the most informed NFL fan this offseason. Find Lockdown NFL scouting on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Have a great day and I will see you tomorrow.