Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots Hire Josh McDaniels as Offensive Coordinator; Defense Next? Ryan Cowden

Starting point is 00:00:00 Josh McDaniels is back in New England. Why was this the right hire for Mike Vrabel, Drake May, and most importantly, the New England Patriots offense? Stick around. You're about to be locked in to the Locked On Patriots podcast. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello to all of you, Foxborough faithful.

Starting point is 00:00:31 And thank you once again for making Locked On Patriots a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage. I'm your host, Mike DeBate. I cover your New England Patriots for the Patriots country. Reach out to me. Let me know what's on your mind on X at MDABATENFL. While you're out there showing some love to Locked On Patriots social media style, please be sure to follow our account as well, LO underscore Patriots. And as for me, you can find me where the skies are blue over on Blue Sky at MDABATENFL.BSKY.SOCIAL.

Starting point is 00:01:03 Today's episode is brought to you by GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use the code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase. Pats fans, it's been an eventful Tuesday afternoon here in Foxborough. Initial reports first coming from Barstool Sports' Kirk Minahan that offensive coordinator candidate Josh McDaniels was being interviewed for the new england patriots vacant oc position and that his official naming to that job was imminent

Starting point is 00:01:30 well lo and behold over the course of the next couple of hours it's been confirmed that josh will be returning as the new england patriots offensive coordinator his third stint with the organization 2025 will be his 15th non-consecutive year as offensive coordinator here in New England. Folks, there is a ton to break down when it comes to Josh's return. We'll be discussing that on Locked On Patriots here today, as well as throughout the week. And I say we, because joining me here in just a moment is my good friend and Patriots bison, columnist extraordinaire of Patsfans.com, Steve Balistrieri. Steve and I were actually discussing the potential of Josh returning when the news became official. You're going to hear

Starting point is 00:02:10 our reaction to that news as well as our thoughts on what Josh's return means for the Patriots offense from Mike Vrabel's perspective, Drake May's perspective, and the future of the Pats offense. But we weren't just welcoming Steve in today to talk about the offense. We also wanted to get his take on the defensive coordinator position, and the Patriots currently have a couple of candidates that might fit that bill just nicely. Steve and I will talk about Terrell Williams of the Detroit Lions and Ryan Crow of the Miami Dolphins, who might be the better fit for the Pats when it comes to the defensive coordinator position. Last but certainly not least, we're going to turn our attention to the front office. Ryan Cowden is set to join the Patriots front office, but what kind of executive will he

Starting point is 00:02:51 be? And what does it mean for the Patriots moving forward? Well, for the past two seasons, Ryan has served under Joe Shane of the New York Giants. Fortunately for us here on the Locked On Podcast Network, we have the very best when it comes to Giants coverage. My good friend and colleague, the host of Locked On Giants, Patricia Trena, will join us here to close the show today and talk about what type of executive Ryan Cowden might make. All that and more today, so stay locked in my good buddy, Steve Balistrieri, as we break down the hiring of Josh McDaniels as offensive coordinator for your New England Patriots. Steve, thank you so much for joining me here today on what is an eventful Tuesday afternoon here in New England.

Starting point is 00:03:37 Hey, always a pleasure, my friend. And thank you to Locked On Patriots listeners for always welcoming me to the podcast. As you and I have been saying for years, Mike, there's never a dull, boring day in Foxborough, right? It's like every day something's happening. Oh, absolutely. Every day something is happening in New England. And what kind of offense should Patriots fans expect to see out of Josh McDaniels? You mentioned the Earhart-Perkins system.

Starting point is 00:04:10 I do believe that that will not leave him. I believe that it will be a hybrid of what he's done in the past. But we keep hearing about a lot of scouting that Josh has been doing with modern-style offenses, going to college, and scouting some of the collegiate type of offenses and really scouting some of the pro level offenses that incorporate a lot of that outside wide zone. Do you believe that Josh will adapt his style here in New England to fit what not only Drake may, but also the personnel around him can do well? Oh, absolutely. That's a great point i i think that you know um you know he's been he traveled around

Starting point is 00:04:48 he spent time with a lot of different college offenses and i think that you know he's probably worked up a hybrid of what he's done in the past with you know uh the Erhard Perkins system. And then he's looking at incorporating some of what he saw with the college offenses, as well as incorporate some of the, you know, run schemes to take advantage of Drake May. You know, and we saw him talking about that to Julian Edelman on his Games with Names podcast. saw him talking about that to Julian Edelman on his uh games with names podcast and you know he was talking about how May has you know such great athletic ability that you would want to incorporate that into you know the offense so I think that's what we're going to see. And I think it's exciting because we know he's a good offensive mind.

Starting point is 00:05:47 So, you know, if he ends up getting hired, which we believe at this point he will, I think it's going to be pretty exciting to watch. Yeah, absolutely. And we can actually break news here on Locked on Patriots. It is official. Ian Rappaport of NFL Network, Diana Russini of The Athletic, both simultaneously reporting that Josh McDaniels will, in fact, be named the new offensive coordinator of your New England Patriots.

Starting point is 00:06:16 So, folks, it's no longer a pipe dream for Back to the Future. That DeLorean has landed, and Josh McDaniels will be stepping out of it, and he will be the offensive coordinator under Mike Vrabel. So, Steve, in that vein, now that we know Josh McDaniels is back in the fold and we know that he's going to be here, I think you've made some great points about the type of offense we're going to be seeing from Josh here in New England. I think the next logical question is, what does this mean for the offense as a whole?

Starting point is 00:06:45 What does this mean for some of the components that we have within the offense? We know Drake Mays not going anywhere. Josh is definitely going to tailor make this offense to accentuate all of his strengths. What can we expect to see now from the supporting cast around? Does this mean that the New England Patriots may be placing a greater emphasis on bringing in quick, effective route running receivers? Do you think they place a little bit more emphasis on the running game if Josh is going to update his style? Where do you think the Patriots go from here now in terms of offensive focus now that we know McDaniels is going to be the guy? Well, I think now's the time, you know, that McDaniels, I think, uh, Vrabel, Elliot Wolf,

Starting point is 00:07:28 they have, have, have to have a sit down now, and they're going to talk about how he envisions running this offense and then, you know, get Vrabel's obviously his input in this and then decide which players, what type of players fit best with their quarterback. And then I think then once they decide that, they can, you know, go forward and, okay, this is how we're going to approach free agency. And then the draft, and these are the goals we have setting up, like, this is how we want to set this offense up. And I still think it's going to start in the trenches. You know, it has to start there.

Starting point is 00:08:11 And then you work, you know, you build from the inside out. And I agree with you. I mean, in the past, Josh has liked those, you know, smaller, quicker guys that get open quickly, can move the chains. Not necessarily, you know, the big-name guys, but we know they're going to chase T. Higgins because I think Josh, the year he had Randy Moss and Dante Stallworth, you know, go back to 2007.

Starting point is 00:08:45 Plus the quick guy like Wes Walker. That offense was really, really fun to watch. Yeah, it really was. Yeah, and I think Josh will sit down with Drake May ASAP. I think those two are going to get, you know, on the same, like, bandwidth, I guess you could say, right? Sitting down, describing how he envisions the offense to work, and I think that's going to be the way they go. Folks, we're going to continue to break down the hiring of Josh McDaniel.

Starting point is 00:09:20 Stay tuned on Wednesday and Thursday. We'll be covering this one from all angles. But, Steve, now that one domino has fallen, now the New England Patriots are going to look to the defensive side of the ball. And even though the hiring of Josh McDaniels is the story of the day here in New England, that's also dropping some hints that they may be close to the end of the search for their defensive coordinator candidate. And that is Terrell Williams of the Detroit Lions. What could this possibly mean for the Patriots defense?

Starting point is 00:09:51 Steve and I are going to discuss that point in just a moment when this episode of the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. A proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Listen up, Locked On listeners. I love going to live events, whether it's sports, music, theater, or comedy. Some of my favorite memories have been attending exciting playoff games or concerts. The energy and excitement are unforgettable. Well, now, Game Time has made it even easier to get tickets for your favorite events

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Starting point is 00:11:08 Patriots fans, thank you once again for joining us here today on Locked On Patriots as we break down the official hiring of Josh McDaniels as the offensive coordinator under Mike Vrabel here for your New England Patriots. Josh is back for what is going to be his 15th non-consecutive season as offensive coordinator for New England. Steve, it almost seems like it's just a hand-in-glove fit. Josh McDaniels coordinating the Patriots offense, whether it's Bill Belichick in the head coach's seat, whether it's Mike Vrabel coming up, it feels right that Josh McDaniels is returning to New England. But there were also reports out there that the Patriots may be narrowing their search

Starting point is 00:11:47 for the defensive coordinator. We know from reports over the weekend that Miami Dolphins outside linebackers coach Ryan Crowe was in for an interview. He's got a history with Mike Rabel, both with the Tennessee Titans, a young, innovative mind. A lot of people are looking at him as being an intriguing option, but on Tuesday afternoon, Matt Zenitz of CBS Sports dropped a hint that I think a lot of Patriots fans had been expecting, and that is that Lions assistant Terrell Williams could

Starting point is 00:12:18 potentially be the frontrunner to become the new defensive coordinator here in New England. And again, just like Crowe, Williams has a history of working with Mike Vrabel in Tennessee. He's coached for a number of different organizations. He has a definite synergy with Mike Vrabel. If in fact, the Patriots are moving quickly on getting the coordinators in house, do you believe Williams is going to be the front runner? Is this the right choice for the New England Patriots? That's a great question. I believe that he's probably the top choice, but I wouldn't rule out, you know, Rowe either with the Dolphins because we know Rabel liked him as well. But, you know, you go back to Williams. He was the, you know, the defensive line coach in Tennessee, I believe, for six years.

Starting point is 00:13:13 And he worked with Vrabel the whole time. And Vrabel liked him so much that he gave him the title of assistant head coach as well as defensive line coach. So, you know, if I'm a betting man, I'm betting on Williams. And again, it's somebody he's very familiar with. He knows, you know, this guy inside and out. I think they'll work very well together. I think, you know, between him and Mike on the defensive side, you're going to see things get fixed quite quickly. You're definitely going to see things get fixed quickly

Starting point is 00:13:51 on the defensive side of the ball. We've talked about some of the reasons why. The personnel that the Patriots are going to be returning, hopefully returning, on the defensive side of the ball, I believe is far superior to what they have on the offense. There's less reconstruction that needs to be done. I think the problems that the Patriots had were more about execution than they were about lack of personnel. And that's something that you can immediately try to repair when it comes to their sense of urgency in getting after the quarterback,

Starting point is 00:14:20 making sure that players are in the right position when you're trying to defend the run and we've talked a lot over the course of the last couple of weeks about mike rabel trying to reinstitute some of that nastiness that it used to exist in the patriots locker room when it came to the defense um i think someone like a williams coming in could end up being a hand and glove fit there a couple of years ago when they asked him the type of defense that he'd like to institute, the word he used was violent. And I think in a lot of ways, before we get carried away here, I think Terrell definitely putting things in perspective

Starting point is 00:14:57 just means that he wanted an aggressive style. And you saw that this year in Detroit. Someone like a Williams coming in could be a very good fit for what the Patriots want to do defensively. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, again, some of it was technique. Some of it was play calling, you know, and I just think that, you know, I think it would go back to Marcus Covington, right? He was, I thought, an outstanding defensive line coach. But when he was giving the entire ball of wax, so to speak, right, as defensive coordinator, I think it was a little too much for him.

Starting point is 00:15:38 And, you know, the adjustments weren't there in game, I didn't believe. So, and, you know, we know that they were hit hard by injuries too. I mean, it all kind of plays into it. That's what happened with the Lions at the end of the year. I mean, that defense was really, really strong, but they got beat up. And, you know, that's what happens, you know, at the end of campaigns. The teams that win aren't always the very best teams. They're the healthiest.

Starting point is 00:16:09 Absolutely, 100%. And again, folks, if the Patriots are serious about moving quickly, now that the offensive coordinator, Domino, has fallen, and it is Josh McDaniels leading the offense, yeah, I expect the Patriots to turn around and make a hire fairly quickly no confirmation yet on whether or not williams has been scheduled for an interview or whether or not the patriots are hoping to bring him in over the course of the next couple of days but i also don't want to discount ryan crowe who is someone that could also be uh someone who could

Starting point is 00:16:42 have a reunion of sorts with Mike Vrabel. Extensive history between these two. Assistant special teams coach in Tennessee, also spent a lot of time coaching the outside linebackers. That type of dual knowledge really serves, I think, a coach very well. And we've heard Bill Belichick say several times, if you want a coach to be a complete coach, make sure that he has some experience coaching special teams, because you have your hand in everything. Could this be a

Starting point is 00:17:11 feather in the cap of Ryan Crowe if the Patriots want to go with a younger, more innovative type defensive mind? Could this be a fit for the New England Patriots as well? Oh, absolutely. Again, I was going to bring that point up you know um with bill belichick because he put a lot of stock and uh you know having a special teams background or at least some taste of it and and it's true because you have to know all the pieces that move and um you know i i think that's a great point i think uh you know he's a young upcoming guy he works with vrabel as well i think he would be another really good choice and you know maybe vrabel is willing to give the younger guy a shot because he knows he's going to be right beside him if the kid starts running into problems.

Starting point is 00:18:09 Absolutely, yeah, and I think that could be a fit for the New England Patriots. And look, it's obvious that Mike Vrabel is assembling his crew, Steve. I don't think anyone is doubting whether or not he's putting his stamp, his fingerprint on this organization. He's done it with the offensive coordinator position already, folks. Josh was the front runner, really, I think, from the start of this search. He ends up coming in, if it's going to be Ryan Crow, if it's going to be Terrell Williams, both of these guys having extensive experience working with Mike.

Starting point is 00:18:41 But it doesn't just stop from the coach's bench either, folks. The front office is also an area where Mike Grable would like to have some familiarity, and a gentleman on his way in is someone he's worked with for a number of years in Tennessee. The last couple of years, though, Ryan Cowden, that gentleman who is coming in to the Patriots front office, has spent some time down with Joe Shane in New York with the Giants. What kind of executive is Ryan Cowden going to make? And what type of impact could he have with your New England Patriots? Well, the best source is the expert source.

Starting point is 00:19:15 And we are going to our resident expert here on the Locked On Podcast Network, my good friend and colleague, Patricia Trena, host of Locked On Giants, is going to pop in here in just a moment, and she's going to give her take on Ryan Cowden and also give her background on why Shane Bowen, who also, Steve, has an extensive history of working with Mike Vrabel, may be off the table.

Starting point is 00:19:37 Is there still an 11th hour Hail Mary that could bring him to New England? If not, what made him so valuable that the Giants just had to pull him back in? We're going to talk about all that and more when this episode of the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. A proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team, every day. Locked On listeners, it's playoff time. And if you're like me,

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Starting point is 00:21:29 a lot of the attention of Pats fans continues to be focused on the front office, and with good reason. Elliott Wolfe right now remaining in place as executive vice president of player personnel. Again, folks, at least that's for the time being. Robin Glazer resigning her post, but the majority of the eyes continue to be fixed on the new guy on the block and that is ryan cowden who has spent the last two seasons with joe shen's new york giants as the executive advisor to the general manager pats fans here today to provide an insider's look at cowden's time in east rutherford is the very best in the business i don't hesitate when i say that i absolutely 100 believe it when it comes to giants coverage she is very best in the business. I don't hesitate when I say that. I absolutely 100% believe it.

Starting point is 00:22:06 When it comes to Giants coverage, she is the best in the business. The publisher, the editor, the beat writer of New York Giants on SI, and of course, the host of Lockdown Giants right here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. Most importantly, my good friend Patricia Trena joins us here today. Patricia, thank you so much for joining me here. Welcome back to Lockdown Patriots. Well, thanks so much for having me. And out of all that that you mentioned, the most important one to me is good friend, because

Starting point is 00:22:33 you have been a good friend to me, and I value our friendship, and I'm always happy to hop on with you. We don't get to do it often, but when we do, it's always a treat for me. Absolutely. Any time that we have the opportunity to cross the streams here on the lockdown podcast network i'm going to take it you mentioned earlier that it is not often enough and i completely agree with you but you know what when i found the opportunity to get you on the airwaves here on lockdown patriots i was going to take it and

Starting point is 00:22:59 patricia the giants have how shall we say struggle for the past couple of seasons, just like the New England Patriots have up here. So it's not often that two teams that are struggling are going to pick each other's brains when it comes to the front office and it comes to coaching staffs. But Mike Vrabel is the new sheriff in town here in New England. And reportedly, Mike is doing the best he can to be able to work with people with whom he has a comfort level. And Ryan Cowden right now at the top of the list. These two work together in Tennessee. And Cowden is coming in as someone with whom Patriots fans don't necessarily have a whole lot of background information.

Starting point is 00:23:37 And I think a lot of people are wondering how Ryan is going to assimilate into the current structure that the Patriots have right now within the front office. You know the Giants as well as anyone from your experience from the last two years. From that Giants perspective that you bring to the table, what can you tell us about Ryan Cowden, the executive, and what should New England Patriots fans be looking forward to or expect from his arrival here in Foxborough? Well, one of the reasons why I think Ryan Cowden was initially hired by the Giants is because in Joe Shane, you had a brand new GM. And Joe Shane has chose to surround himself with different levels of experience, people from different backgrounds, scouting, executive management, so on and so forth. Ryan Cowden, I believe, had been a, I think he had been a GM or an assistant GM for the Titans.

Starting point is 00:24:31 As you mentioned, he worked with Mike Rabel when they were with Tennessee. Ryan Cowden actually interviewed for the Giants GM position that went to Joe Shade. So they liked him enough to say, hey, let's offer him a job as an advisor. So he was one of many in Joe Shane's circle. I don't know if you guys, sitting around and just giving their feedback. So Ryan Cowden was one of them. I don't know if he had a specific role per se where, you know, the salary cap was his thing or the draft was his thing or pro persona was his thing. I think he was well-versed in everything.

Starting point is 00:25:28 And, you know, I'm not sure how the Patriots are structured. I believe Elliot Wolfe is not technically a GM, but he is sort of like a GM in his role and his responsibilities. So with adding Ryan Cowden up there, a guy who, again, Mike Vrabel is familiar with and comfortable working with, now you have another voice in the room that has some experience, even though his time with the Giants, you know, you can look at the Giants record the last couple of years,

Starting point is 00:25:51 and it's just been awful, but you know, there's still promise, you know, that great draft class that the Giants had, that was certainly a turning point. The acquisition of Brian Burns was a major step forward for the Giants. So all of that, even though it didn't translate into wins, that was all part of a building process. And I think maybe that was part of the reason why, in addition to, of course, the familiarity with Cowden,

Starting point is 00:26:18 that maybe the Patriots wanted to poach him from the Giants. Yeah, very good insight. And you're absolutely right. 2016-2017, Ryan served as director of player personnel for the Tennessee Titans, was promoted to VP of player personnel in 2018. So he definitely has that synergy, that working relationship with Mike Rabel. From what I understand, the two have remained close since their days of working together in Nashville.

Starting point is 00:26:44 So this is a familiarity hire for Mike Vrabel, and I think it will mean good things for the Patriots. As for the structure of the way the Patriots do things, you're right. Elliott Wolfe is executive vice president of player personnel. Now, a lot of what Elliott loves to do and a lot of what Elliott's strong suit is, is scouting, especially at the collegiate level even at the pro level but he has a definite affinity for being able to scout talent through the draft and through free agency now the one thing that I think the Patriots would like to do with Ryan coming in is really hone that scouting ability in but also I think put that into practical and tactical knowledge on the field.

Starting point is 00:27:25 And from those that I spoke to that know Ryan and have known him for a number of years, say that going back to his playing days at Walford University, he possesses a knowledge of players that are versatile and that have knowledge of the entire field, everything that's going on. His days as a defensive back and playing safety for Warford, I think are going to help him in his scouting abilities, because that's one thing that the Patriots really, I think, lacked in 2024. They lacked a lot in 2024, but one thing that I think they really lacked was player awareness, field awareness, and I think someone like Orion Cowden coming in is going to help that in the long term for the New England Patriots, especially someone like Mike Vrabel, who has made this a tenant on which he wants to build his new administration coming in.

Starting point is 00:28:13 I mentioned that several times when he was introduced last week as the head coach of the New England Patriots. We want to get back to an area where we can take advantage of bad football best way to do it is with field awareness and maybe Ryan's expertise in that area will definitely help him coming in so great insight on what he had with the Giants Patricia I think that him not having a necessarily defined role kind of opens him up to so many possibilities here in New England and I think it's good for Patriots fans to hear that I wouldn't be doing my job however if I didn't ask you about another potential giant on the Patriots radar that I've heard is kind of off the radar or should be off the radar when it comes to the New England Patriots on the defensive side of the ball. And that's Shane Bowen.

Starting point is 00:28:59 Shane, like Ryan, has a working relationship with Mike Grable due to his time with the Tennessee Titans and their mutual time working together. But from what I'm hearing, and maybe you can help to fill in the gaps on this, Shane is someone who's pretty much staying put in East Rutherford. Ryan Dayball likes what he has in his coaching of the defense, and they want to move forward together in terms of trying to build the Giants back up to respectability as the Patriots are doing. I know Shane was someone that was on the short list of Mike Vrabel coming in as potential defensive coordinator candidates, but if his name is pulled off the list, which I believe it is, what made him so valuable in Giants land that put him

Starting point is 00:29:42 in a position where he had to be retained by current management down in East Rutherford? That's a really good question because I'm still trying to figure that one out. I didn't think Shane Bowen did as good of a job as maybe you thought he would have done, at least based on what he had in Tennessee. Now, to be fair, he didn't have the personnel that he had in Tennessee with the Giants. So, you know, you have to take that into consideration. But you also have to say to yourself, okay, were his philosophies, were they a good fit for the personnel the Giants had? And I'll cite a couple, you know, an example.

Starting point is 00:30:21 Bobby Okereke, who was a dynamo in 2023, suddenly looked like, you know, he didn't have a clue what he was doing. Bobby Okereke didn't get bad overnight. It had to be, you know, the scheme had to be a part of it. Deontay Banks, a cornerback, who was drafted primarily for his press man coverage skills, he went backwards. Okay?

Starting point is 00:30:45 He was asked to play more zone. So you question if the philosophies fit the personnel. Also, you question why it took Shane Bowen so many weeks to make adjustments that he probably should have made earlier. You know, the run defense, for example, playing with a two-man front, and then suddenly, oh, wow, we lose Dexter Lawrence, what do we do? Well, let's go back to a three man front. And now, hey, now you can stop the run. Well, why weren't you doing this earlier,

Starting point is 00:31:14 and giving Dexter more help, you know, so little things like that. But I think with the Giants, what they probably want to do, they put a big focus on the draft, on the defensive side of the ball last year, both in draft and also with the acquisition of Brian Burns. They're going to continue to build up the defensive side because, you know, people will say, oh, the Giants got to get a quarterback. Yeah, they do. But they got to fix that defense. That defense has a lot of holes.

Starting point is 00:31:41 Okay. That being said, I don't want to say that they were scapegoats because I don't know that for a fact, but the move that the Giants made was to get rid of Jerome Henderson, their passing game coordinator slash defensive backs coach and Michael Trier, their safeties coach. I'm not sure I agree with that move. I mean, especially Henderson. I don't want to say he was scapegoated because, you know, the, you know, the cornerbacks took a step backwards, which some people will say when I say, well, Drew Phillips didn't take a step

Starting point is 00:32:16 backwards. He came in and he played well. It was just Deontay Banks and Deontay Banks. His issue was, you know, he'd lose confidence. And now all of a sudden it was like, you know, you lose confidence and now you're like a ship floating without any kind of anchor. So that was the change the Giants made. I think what Brian D'Abel was trying to do, and I'm not really surprised that they retained Bowen, even though John Mara came out and said, look, I wasn't happy with the defense marching,

Starting point is 00:32:46 allowing opponents to march up and down the field. But I think what Brian D'Abel's argument was is let's have continuity. Let's see how they do in year two of the system. I'll make a change in the defensive secondary in that coaching, see if we can't get somebody in here who could better coach these guys to play more zone coverage. Let's keep building that side of the ball and just see what happens. And, you know, Mike, I'll go back to what happened last year in the off season. The Giants weren't going to let Mike Kafka, their offensive coordinator, jump over to Seattle, despite the

Starting point is 00:33:22 fact that Brian D'Abel knew right from day one that he was going to take back the play calling. And Mike Kafka had an opportunity to go to Seattle to maybe be their offensive coordinator and play caller. So not allowing him to do that made me think, well, he probably isn't going to do that with Bowen either, who has at least another year on his contract. So I'm not surprised, but I am kind of surprised because I just don't think Bowen's system fits the personnel, but they're going to apparently build the personnel to better fit what he wants to run.

Starting point is 00:33:54 Yeah, that's great insight, Patty, because I think Patriots fans are looking at this and saying, okay, well, let's look at how these two fared together in Tennessee. And if you look at the job that they did, especially in 2021, it was their best season together. 12-5 record, they win the AFC, they earn the AFC's number one overall seed. You look at the defense that year that Shane was responsible for, really among the league's best in most categories,

Starting point is 00:34:20 number four in touchdowns per game, ranked number four in opponents' red zone scoring, sixth in third down conversion rate, and number six in points per game. So Patriots fans are looking at this pairing and saying, that's it. Synergy, these guys work together. They're capable of putting out a top flight defense. This is the guy to go ahead and hire. But I think it's also very important to remember the Giants side of things. The Giants at this point are maintaining their head code. They haven't made a change the way the Patriots have made and bringing in a new regime. I think it is worthy, I think it is smart to err on the side of caution and have that

Starting point is 00:34:55 continuity that you spoke of. And I think you'll see that in year two of a variable administration here in New England. If the defense does continue to struggle under whatever defensive coordinator comes in, I don't think you're going to see a really quick ax and have him maybe taken out. I think you're going to want to see the current coach have an opportunity to build together with his staff. So Brian coming in now in his second year, about to enter his second year as head coach in New York. I think it's going to be very telltale to see how these guys build. If they continue to struggle, all bets are off. And then we may be having this discussion again in 2025, heading into 2026 about Shane Bowen's potential availability at that point. But it didn't surprise me to hear that the Giants would be retaining him. And again,

Starting point is 00:35:42 I think you make a good argument and give Patriots fans something to think about when it comes to his fit in New York. Would he be the same type of fit in New England? Yeah, the personnel that they had in Tennessee is not going to be similar to the personnel that Mike Vrabel is going to have now here in New England as head coach. Patricia, thank you so much for joining me here today to lend your wisdom, your counsel, your insight the way only you can from a Giants perspective, not just on Ryan Cowden, but also on Shane Bowen, because I continue to get a lot of direct messages from Patriots fans that we're hoping, as we like to say in New England, when it comes to this new coaching staff. But thank you so much. And I look forward to the next day

Starting point is 00:36:29 when we can definitely cross the streams again here on Locked On Patriots. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Patriots fans, thank you so much for joining us here today and for sticking with us on what was an unexpectedly action-packed episode of Locked On Patriots.

Starting point is 00:36:43 I want to thank my good friend, Steve Balististrieri for joining me and lending his wisdom and counsel on the hiring of Josh McDaniels, the prospects at defensive coordinator, and of course, I want to give a special tip of the cap and thanks to my good friend Patricia Trena for her giant's insight when it comes to Ryan Cowden and Shane Bowen. Folks, we have only scratched the surface on Josh McDaniel's hiring. My good friend Thomas Murphy, chomping at the bit, he will be on the show on Wednesday and we'll talk all things Josh McDaniel's. Break this down intricately and what it means for the New England Patriots moving forward. So stay locked in to Locked On Patriots, folks. As I love to say here

Starting point is 00:37:21 on the pod each and every day, the best is yet to come. And in that vein, I want to say here on the pod each and every day the best is yet to come and in that vein I want to give the biggest tip of the cap my unending gratitude for all of you everydayers out there all of you occasional listeners and anyone who's joining us here on Locked On Patriots for the first time thank you from the bottom of my heart for making Locked On Patriots a daily part of

Starting point is 00:37:39 your New England Patriots coverage once again I'm Mike Debate reminding all of you to stay safe, to stay well, to be the change you wish to see in the world. We'll see you back here again tomorrow on a lot on Patriots.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots Hire Josh McDaniels as Offensive Coordinator; Defense Next? Ryan Cowden

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