Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots: Is Mac Jones Really on the Trading Block? Brian Hoyer to the Raiders

Starting point is 00:00:00 it's obvious there's some tension between Mac Jones and Bill Belichick, but is it enough to trade them? Probably not. You're about to be locked in to the Locked On Patriots podcast. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello to all of you, Foxborough faithful. Thank you once again for making Locked On Patriots a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage. Subscribe or follow for free on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts

Starting point is 00:00:55 to get the latest episode as soon as it's available. I'm your host, Mike DeBate. I cover your New England Patriots for Patriots Country of Sports Illustrated. So reach out to me and let me know what's on your mind on Twitter at M D a B a T E NFL. And while you're out there showing some love to the Twitter verse, please be sure to follow the lockdown Patriots account as well at L O underscore Patriots.

Starting point is 00:01:19 That's fans. Thank you. Once again, some video difficulty, uh, the last couple of days, you may have noticed a little bit of a lag. We are fixing that, but it was not enough to keep us away from bringing you the very

Starting point is 00:01:31 latest here on Locked On Patriots. And folks, as you can see on the screen, it's never a good sign when a team's pre-draft narrative isn't about prospective draft picks, but rather rumors about the starting quarterbacks rift with the head coach and the possibility of a new one's arrival on the horizon those were the rumors we were treated to here on a Tuesday morning but such is life these days with the New England Patriots Lamar Jackson rumors continue to swirl and we continue to hear more on the potential divide between Bill Belichick and Mac Jones that one seems to be growing by the day and Tuesday morning it was pro football talk

Starting point is 00:02:11 throwing fuel on the fire citing the source that claims Belichick has actually been calling multiple teams shopping Jones in a trade and the potential suitors include the Las Vegas Raiders the Houston Texans the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Talk about the irony from that one, folks. And the Washington Commanders. Now, obviously, a trade hasn't occurred yet. This is exactly what Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk wrote. But it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Starting point is 00:02:39 A team hoping to draft a quarterback could pivot Jones. And if that team doesn't get the guy they want Tuck's pivot back to him folks as you can imagine this was met with mixed reaction for a lot of reasons and I'm sure most of you know I'm not going to get into those right now but bottom line here I think the narrative of Mack being traded might be a little bit over aggressive let's take a look at the potential suitors as exhibit one the Raiders recently signed former Patriot Jimmy Garoppolo he's going to be their starter that's why they brought Jimmy Garoppolo into the mix now that would seemingly take them out of the running for a starter unless Josh McDaniels feels that Mac is a

Starting point is 00:03:22 better fit and in that case you might see it happen but again color that very unlikely because I think the reason why they signed Jimmy to the contract they did was to bring him in to be their starting quarterback Houston Texans a lot of people think this has legs second overall pick in the upcoming draft so that's definitely an interesting bargaining chip I don't think the texans are apart with that draft pick even for an established starter like mac jones so does that leave them out of the mix that's a possibility because you know the patriots are going to try to shoot for the sky and get as much as they can for a guy they spent the number 15 pick for just a couple

Starting point is 00:04:01 of seasons ago people forget that folks He was the number 15 pick. The Patriots invested big-time draft capital for Mack. They're not going to give him away for whatever you want to put on the plate. You can fill that in with whatever you wish. But bottom line, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, we know they have a quarterback vacancy. We know Tom Brady is not going to be taking snaps under center in 2023 at least not right now he's not we don't know what the future holds but I still think Tom is retired and retired for good this time but the Buccaneers recently signed Baker Mayfield so they're likely still in the market for an arm but they're not in desperate need for one I think the

Starting point is 00:04:42 Bucs may be content to run it with Baker and see how it works. But if the right opportunity comes along, they may be able to take it. So the Bucs make some sense, at least more sense to me than the Texans or the Raiders would. And the Commanders, last but not least, they have only Sam Howell on the roster. And, of course, old friend and another expatriate, Jokobi Brissett. This one may actually make some sense. I could see the Washington Commanders trying to throw their hat into the ring here.

Starting point is 00:05:09 But to me, the bottom line in all of this is we can talk about the hows, how he's going to get traded, what are going to be the pieces, the who, who's he going to go to, who might make Mac Jones their next starting quarterback. To me, that's all talk show fodder. All us fans right now and media members will continue to keep guessing like we're in some

Starting point is 00:05:30 game show on that. But what this also does, folks, is it brings about the question of why. Why would the Patriots trade Mac Jones at this point? Well, we've chronicled the seemingly unraveling relationship that I spoke about just a few minutes ago between Bill Belichick and Mac Jones, and it really dates back to last season. Forced, there was the quarterback controversy between Jones and rookie Bailey Zappi. Again, no one is denying that Bailey Zappi came in and played very well while Mac Jones was out, but to say that there's enough evidence to appoint Zappi as being worthy of the starter's job,

Starting point is 00:06:07 I think it's a little bit of a stretch. We don't see what Bill Belichick and company see in practice, so I will definitely admit that. But if you're looking on pure what we've seen on camera, on film, in-game action from Bailey Zappi, I think that if the Patriots believed that he was that much better than Matt Jones, he would have remained in the starting slot when Matt got back. If you don't believe that, go back to 2001 when Drew Bledsoe remained on the sidelines in favor of Tom Brady. Brady was a relative unknown when he took over.

Starting point is 00:06:38 No one knew the type of player he was about to become. Maybe Bill Belichick saw it. Maybe Tom Brady believed it in himself and knew it in himself. But the rest of us, if we say we saw the future GOAT out there after only a couple of games, you're probably not being truthful. Bottom line, Bill Belichick is not afraid to play the best player. He's going to do it and he's going to do it, period. Whether he's a rookie, whether he's a veteran, whatever gives Bill Belichick the opportunity to win football games he's going to take it and he's going to grab it with both hands and that's exactly what the Patriots would

Starting point is 00:07:14 have done last year so I'm not buying the fact that the Patriots are seeing Bailey Zappi as the anointed starter and are ready to jettison Mac Jones. That also doesn't mean that they haven't seen enough in Bailey to convince them that he can run the offense efficiently and that the Patriots could upgrade their team by trading him. After all, Bill Belichick just last week at the NFL owners meetings offered a cryptic answer when he was asked about Mac Jones and Bailey Zappi and the Patriots quarterback situation entering the NFL draft and then beyond that into training camp and Bill was very blunt as he always is he said everybody's going to get a chance to play we'll play the best players

Starting point is 00:07:56 that means that multiple NFL analysts are going to look at that and say well he's not committing to this guy obviously he doesn't have confidence in. Let's keep the Lamar Jackson rumors alive. Let's keep all this going. And folks, you understand why there is an uproar over this. I get it. It's a big story. And Patriots fans, media members, and everyone are going to be intrigued by the fact that Mack may be on the block. He's a polarizing player. There's no question about it. But here's the thing. The notion that the Patriots would indeed trade Mack Jones after only one down season doesn't really make much sense unless a team is willing to send the Patriots a strong return on investment. I have no doubt that there is some friction between Mack Jones and Bill Belichick,

Starting point is 00:08:45 but potential trade is not likely to bring back the kind of return that the Patriots are going to be seeking in order to make this worth their while. Lamar Jackson is the only player for which I could make a compelling argument that they would get fair, maybe even better return on investment than what they would by giving back away by trade. But at the same time, it's just simply not financially feasible for the Patriots. There's too much guaranteed money. Even if you're trying to make the bargaining chips for trade work, Baltimore is not one of the teams listed as potential suitors anyway, and that really makes you file this one again

Starting point is 00:09:24 under highly unlikely so in terms of return on investment Patriots are probably not going to be in the market a trade would not only be surprising to me but others really weighed on this on this as well and I want to give a tip of the cap to Mark Daniels of Mark Mass Live who I think brought us all back to reality a little bit revealing that one of his NFL sources said that they hadn't heard anything about the Patriots shopping Jones to any team this offseason, adding, quote, that's news to me. That's interesting when you hear that.

Starting point is 00:09:55 Supposedly he was on the trading block and Bill Belichick was actively making calls shopping him, but again, a source said that that's news to them. A second NFL source said the Patriots haven't contacted the Buccaneers about Jones, saying his name has, quote, never come out this offseason. And a third NFL source of Mark Daniels said the Patriots have not contacted the Raiders about a trade involving Jones either. So again, folks, take that for what you will. There's all different kinds of conflicting information out there right

Starting point is 00:10:25 now that's where we stand in all fairness to the pro football talk report i don't think it was fabricated let me be very uh mike florio is a seasoned enough pro to know that and report on what he heard and i'm sure he feels confident in its sourcing. And I believe he did that. But how did he get here? Again, I think that really comes back to the point. How did the tension between Bill Belichick and Mac Jones lead to these types of rumors, whether they're substantiated or not? Well, we're going to take a deeper dive into that and why it's never a good idea to go against the Foxborough family business.

Starting point is 00:11:04 Yeah, you're right, folks. I know you're thinking, and that's it. I'm taking it there. We're going a little godfather when this episode of the Lockdown Patriots podcast continues. But first, folks, the men's and women's college basketball tournaments may be over, but the Built March Madness bracket is here. Now, we know you all have a favorite bar or or puff and now is your time to make it count. So go to BuiltMarchMadness.com

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Starting point is 00:12:12 favorite bar or puff and pick up a box while you're there. You can vote every day in March, so hop in and support your pick. Don't delay. Do it today. Built.com. Patriots fans, thank you once again for taking time out of your day to join me here on Locked On Patriots, a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And as the great Don Vito Corleone would say, and one actually did once tell, is over-aggressive yet well-meaning son, Santino, son of Corleone. Never tell anyone outside the family what you're thinking again.

Starting point is 00:12:52 I think that's very poignant here, folks, because when it comes to the relationship between New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick and quarterback Mac Jones, this quote from the godfather may nail it. It may really bring to light everything we've been talking about today. The whole reason why Mac Jones is supposedly on the trading block. A lot of conflicting reports as to whether he is, whether he isn't, what's going on. We really don't know for sure at this point, but the report is out there that Bill Belichick

Starting point is 00:13:22 calling multiple teams, shopping Jones in a trade. That, to me, indicates a precipitating event. And that precipitating event, we happen to get a little more insight on. And it's courtesy of the original reporters on this Pro Football Talk. During Monday's episode of PFT Live, Chris Sims of NBC Sports doubled down on a report that he had made recently that Mack was seeking help outside the organization to seek counsel on dealing with New England's several offensive changes throughout the 2022 season and I'm quoting Chris directly here quote of course Mack Jones must have been frustrated and that's what he heard I said again quoting from Chris this time folks don't forget I said that in an earlier episode this season that he had called Alabama his alma mater and certain coaches

Starting point is 00:14:13 saying hey can you give us some ideas to our coaches well I mean come on all of us who pay attention to football how do you think that's going to go over with New England people if they heard that was happening I'm sure he was frustrated but I don't know that calling Alabama, where your head coach is an ex-assistant of your head coach, was very wise. It's going to get back to the Patriots. That's where he went wrong. That's the quote from Chris Sins. Now, Mike Florio chimed in along with it, supporting that and saying that he believed that Mack was also a little miffed uh used a little more colorful language it's a family show so I'm going to scale that back a little bit but basically he said that Mac didn't appreciate being quote-unquote the guinea pig for Belichick's

Starting point is 00:14:56 unrestrained hubris I will point that out folks those are not my words those are Mike Florio's words but despite entering the season on the heels of really, I think a very impressive rookie campaign, it's no shock that Jones struggled to rekindle that previous success in 2022. So yeah, he was going to be frustrated. There's no question about it. We saw it throughout the season, displaying a lot of discomfort in New England's new offensive system under Matt Patricia and under joe judge at times that disconnect was not only palpable but it was visible you could see the players and the coaching staff on different pages so overt that you could see jones hurling expletive laden frustrations

Starting point is 00:15:39 as i've written before and they were in the direction of his coaches. There's no question about that, folks. Now, Jones's sideline antics were really rumored to be the precipitous between the friction, or really the source of the friction, between he and Bill Belichick. And Pro Football Talk's latest cumulative report added that extra additional layer to Jones's apparent discontent by taking it beyond just simple frustration in the moment. Apparently, Jones was really deeply upset by the Patriots' reversal of fortune, again, according to Pro Football Talk's report, to which he seemingly attributed being forced to navigate an offense run by two non-offensive-minded coaches. Well, yeah, you can see why he might be upset with that but under the patricia and judge regime the patriots offense did regress mac is not wrong in his assessment here one that showed

Starting point is 00:16:32 significant promise in 2021 where mac finished second uh in the running for offensive rookie of the year to a unit that really dwelled among the n's bottom teams. The 2022 Pats ended the regular season seventh worst in total yards while being ranked 22nd in points per game and 26th in yards. That's not going to cut it. That is not going to get you to the playoffs. And I think Mac Jones realized that. To their credit, I think Patricia, Judge, and Belichick realized that as well. But Mac took a statistical dip as well it wasn't all about the high ankle sprain that he had in the early part of the season he didn't finish with great numbers 2997 yards 14 touchdowns 11 interceptions a lot of people believe those numbers would have

Starting point is 00:17:18 been higher had mac had a more open line of communication between the coaches and the quarterback. But again, the problem is here, like Chris Simms said, that instead of going to his Don for difficulty, he sought the wisdom and counsel outside the Foxborough family. And he should have went to Belichick on that, folks. So in turn, Bill Belichick is a little bit upset by what's going on here. That's why I think he's been reluctant to provide Mack with that vote of confidence that we've all been pushing for here in New England, anointing Mack as the starter, the unquestioned heir to the throne here in New England, so to speak. Bill Belichick has been very reticent to give him that type of job security. I think some of that is just the way Bill coaches.

Starting point is 00:18:05 He's not going to give anybody anything beyond what they feel that they've earned, but there probably also is a little underlying upset feeling that is probably preventing him from maybe giving him a little bit more praise or maybe a little bit more security than he has been. But following last season's dismal finish, Jones expressed his desire for a bit more persistence in the way he's coached. Bottom line, he said he wants to be coached harder. Those are actually Max's words. Quote, it's accountability. It starts with me. I think I want to be coached harder. Now this season, assuming he remains in New England,

Starting point is 00:18:42 Jones is going to get his wish because folks, if any coach in the NFL is more willing to go to the mattresses than Bill O'Brien, I don't know which one does. This is how Bill coaches. He gets in your face. He's going to tell you how you're doing and he's not going to be shy about it. And that I think is going to be beneficial to Mac Jones. I think that's the whole point in the reason why Bill O'Brien was brought in. It's to make sure that Mac Jones becomes a better quarterback. He's still on a rookie deal, got a number of years left. He still has the opportunity to prove himself in this league. And the Patriots used the number 15 pick on him for a reason. They saw something in him at Alabama. And I think they believe that Bill O'Brien can extract that from him. Now,

Starting point is 00:19:24 it's still unclear as to whether or not Bill was one of the coaches Mac was reaching out to that could be a little awkward but at the same time if the Patriots felt that was the case why did they hire Bill to begin with you have to think that if that is the sticking point that those situations or those hard feelings have kind of been ironed out in foxborough so again just my opinion i'm not going on a source on that that's just my gut reaction but bottom line i think one thing that we can all agree on is that bill o'brien's offense in theory is going to put mac jones in the best position to bounce back and really kind of rekindle some of that past success

Starting point is 00:20:03 that he didn't get in 2022. O'Brien typically operates in a system that creates plays for the quarterback in which the quarterback leads his receivers under the defense, gets the ball out quickly, delivers it accurately, and that gives the playmakers the space they need to catch and run with the football. Hi Murph, you're yak. That's what the Patriots needed. They're bringing in guys that can do it. Juju Smith-Schuster is an incredible yak machine.

Starting point is 00:20:29 He's going to go out there and give that to you. Mike Gusecki is going to be that big threat in the red zone. They're setting this offense up for Mac Jones to succeed. At least that's what it looks like on paper. And I think that's why I'm having such a hard time believing that they're going to actually trade him. paper and I think that's why I'm having such a hard time believing that they're going to actually trade him but this type of offense is going to put points on the board at least it should but it's also going to keep Mac out ahead of the blitz and it's going to keep him out of duress

Starting point is 00:20:56 and that is where this kid can shine and really show what he can do if the Patriots are successful in doing it it should make that Patriots offense a lot more efficient at the very least in 2023. But is the pairing of Jones and O'Brien enough to adequately right the offensive ship? More importantly, is it really going to keep Easton New England? Well, perhaps. But again, coming back to the Godfather, folks, it's only going to work if neither side ever takes sides with anyone against the Foxborough family again. That, to me, is where this lies. But there is a member of the Foxborough family that's going to be taking his snaps outside New England next season.

Starting point is 00:21:38 And he is a former Patriots quarterback. Now, folks, I'm not talking about that one. I still think he's retired for good. But one quarterback that I thought might go on record and retire as well seems to be extending his career, and he's headed for the Nevada desert. We're going to talk a little Brian Hoyer when we wrap up this episode of the Locked On Patriots podcast. Patriots fans, thank you once again for joining me here on Locked On Patriots,

Starting point is 00:22:06 talking all things Patriots quarterbacks, a lot of Mac Jones rumors, a lot of Bill Belichick rumors, and the rift and the trades, and folks, it's a lot to handle and a lot to keep down, really, I think for lack of a better term. But we're trying to bring you as much information as we can here on Locked On Patriots. Don't forget, we'll be talking about this subject and more, including the DeAndre Hopkins rumors that we were going to get to today, folks. Haven't forgotten about those.

Starting point is 00:22:34 They'll be a part of Wednesday's show when we talk about some of the Patriots' plans at wide out, whether it be draft or whether it be through the free agency or really bringing anybody in by a trade, folks. I think you can count everything on the table for the New England Patriots. Well, almost everything, because a former Pats quarterback is reuniting with an old friend in the Nevada desert, and that's going to happen in this upcoming NFL season. JL Sports, this player's representative, confirmed on Tuesday morning that he would be signing a two-year deal with Josh McDaniels and the Las Vegas Raiders. That player, quarterback Brian Hoyer.

Starting point is 00:23:11 And look, Brian Hoyer to me is, he's a guy that I've always enjoyed covering without any stretch of the imagination. There's still stuff left in the tank when it comes to Brian. And I know a lot of people it comes to brian and i know a lot of people are going to moan and groan about this but i'm going to miss him here in new england he was always a very very easy cover he was always forthright always someone that was easy to talk to and he's just an easy guy to root for he's got a lot of roots in this area i don't think that's going to change but moving on to las Las Vegas is definitely a good move for him, and it reunites him with Josh McDaniels without any question.

Starting point is 00:23:49 Brian entered the 2022 season last year as only one of two reserve quarterbacks on the Pats roster. People forget that Bailey Zappi might have gotten a lot of the play while Mac Jones was out, but that was really supposed to be Brian Hoyer's job. He was going to get the, did get the start against Green Bay and, you know, the jury is still out as to whether or not he would have continued to start after that. But after completing only five passes in the week four loss to the Green Bay Packers, suffered concussion and was on the shelf for the rest of the year. Now, New England's offensive struggles last season have been well-documented

Starting point is 00:24:24 and Mac Jones deserves his share of the blame pie Bill Belichick a little bit Matt Patricia and Joe Judge they got a heaping serving of the blame pie for that but a lot of people forget that this was also a situation where it could have affected both Brian Hoyer and Bailey Zappi as well Brian has been around long enough to see some really prolific Patriots offenses. Backed up Tom Brady in some of the early days of the second part of the Patriots dynasty. Guys like Rob Gronkowski, you know, Damian Ndola, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, all of these guys hanging around being a part of that Patriots offense.

Starting point is 00:25:02 He also knows what a great play caller and what a good strategist Josh McDaniels is. Apparently, Brian didn't like too much what he saw last year under Patricia and Joe Judge. Now, not only did the offensive woes reportedly cause tension between Jones and Belichick, but it may have actually been the catalyst for Brian Hoyer's premature release from the team. NBC Sports Boston's Tommy Curran lent some validity to that report earlier last week when he appeared on WEI's Jones and Meggo with Christian Arcand. And he basically said that Hoyer's voicing of his displeasure may have sat wrong with Bill Belichick.

Starting point is 00:25:40 I'm going to quote him directly. He says, quote, Brian Hoyer was not sold on what was going on last year and I think he let that known that Mac was up against it on a on a weekly basis I think that's a large portion of the reason why Hoyer's not here the Patriots would tell you otherwise but they're paying him 1.4 million dollars to not play here and not be a part of the system even through training camp and then we then just release him in August when you could use him this offseason. They basically said, nope, thanks, we're all set with you. I think it's interesting. And those are Tommy Curran's exact words. It is interesting, folks, because it does lend you a little bit of confusion as to why the Patriots would release Brian now. The counterpoint to that argument is that they were trying to do him a solid,

Starting point is 00:26:24 that Brian wants to play elsewhere. He wants to be a part of a team from the start of training him. And they gave him the opportunity to go elsewhere. If that is indeed the case, then the Patriots were being benevolent. But if they were cutting him because of a little bit of, I don't know, maybe bitterness about the way he handled the situation last year, then yeah, that makes sense too. I actually think they were being more benevolent than anything else, but I always try to look at the positives on things. Sometimes to my own detriment, I understand the argument, but that is indeed where it comes down to. But bottom line, Brian Hoyer goes to the Las Vegas Raiders now, brings an amazing scout team acumen with him. I think that's where he's going to really shine with this organization. He's going to be able to navigate through coaching changes. He's also going to be

Starting point is 00:27:12 able to navigate through a lot of what Raiders quarterbacks are going to see on defense. And also he's going to allow defenses to be able to have the scout team quarterbacks mimic what they're going to see on a weekly basis. Basically, bottom line, folks, Brian Hoyer can turn himself into a chameleon-type quarterback to be able to mimic what you're going to see on the field. And what he can't do physically any longer, he'll make sure that the guys in the building that are indeed ready for the challenge to be able to mimic a lot of what the Raiders defense is going to see. So a win for the Raiders offense, a win for the Raiders defense, but most of all,

Starting point is 00:27:50 a win for the Raiders organization because they're just getting a great guy. I wish Brian all the best and hope he does well in his continued endeavors in Las Vegas. But folks, we are just scratching the surface on everything that we will talk about here when it comes to the New England Patriots is Mac Jones truly remaining on the trading block is this a situation where it can be solved or will the Patriots look elsewhere for additional help for Mac Jones folks these are all the questions that we're going to be talking about here as we lead up to the draft at the end of the month so don't forget to stay locked in to Locked On Patriots. And folks, if you've made Locked On Patriots your first listen today, please make your second listen, our good friends over at Locked On NFL Scouting, where my good friends Joe Marino and Kyle Krabs walk you through all of the ins and outs of building a franchise.

Starting point is 00:28:40 That's Locked On NFL Scouting available wherever you get podcasts and of course on YouTube. While you're at it, don't forget to download, subscribe to, and follow Locked On Patriots as well. Once again, I am your host, Mike DeBate. I thank you for joining me here today, and I look forward to talking football with you again tomorrow when we reconvene here

Starting point is 00:28:59 on Locked On Patriots. In the meantime, continue to stay safe, stay well, be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great evening, everyone.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots: Is Mac Jones Really on the Trading Block? Brian Hoyer to the Raiders

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