Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots Linebackers: Mack Wilson, Cameron McGrone, Matt Judon and More in 2022

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

After looking a step too slow [and perhaps a bit long-in-the-tooth, at times] last season, the New England Patriots are ready to get faster on defense in 2022; particularly at linebacker. Joining host Mike D’Abate is Steve Balestrieri of PatsFans.com. The duo discuss the acquisition of Mack Wilson, the potential of Cameron McGrone and which veteran linebacker is the most valuable to the Pats defense.Find and follow Locked On Patriots on your favorite podcast platforms:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-patriots-daily-podcast-on-the-new-england/id1140512627 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1c5ZxFmwg3WbfxAU3tR5Ve?si=k196wH-yRqifUcQQz8SjIQStitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-patriots And follow host Mike D’Abate on Twitter, where he’ll be sharing the latest news about the New England Patriots and talking with fans.On Twitter: @mdabateNFLSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!DaveDownload the Dave app from the App store right now for an Extra Cash account and get up to 500 dollars instantly. For terms and conditions go to dave.com/legal. Instant transfer fees apply. Banking provided by Evolve. Member FDIC.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.BetOnlineBetOnline.net has you covered this season with more props, odds and lines than ever before. BetOnline – Where The Game Starts!Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patriots fans, is youth about to be served at linebacker for the 2022 New England Patriots? Or can that need for speed be filled by the veterans on their roster? Listen much more today on this midweek linebacker episode. Stay tuned. You're about to be locked in to the Locked On Patriots podcast. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Patriots a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage, as well as your first listen every day.

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subscribe button on YouTube to not miss a single second of the action. I am your host, Mike DeBate. I cover your

New England Patriots for Patriots Country of Sports Illustrated. Feel free to reach out to me on Twitter at MDABATENFL. And while you're out there showing some love to that Twitterverse, folks, follow the Lockdown Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots. Pats fans, as you can see, joining me today on the pod, a guest that

knows a thing or two about defense. And we're going to be talking defense, particularly the linebacking core of your 2022 Patriots. He knows a lot about defense, serving, protecting. He is our resident voice of reason. He's my Patriots bison, my good friend, Steve Balistrieri of Patsfans.com. Welcome back to the pod, my friend, as always. Thanks for having me, and thanks for being flexible on the time uh as i told you offline we literally just get back uh from a really needed few days at the beach so absolutely and you know what it's the perfect time of year

for it radioactively hot up here in the new england area pretty much all over the country the heat is definitely on but uh it's summer and we're just a few days away from officially opening training camp in Foxborough. And you need not thank us because you're always worth the wait. We thank you for always lending your wisdom and counsel here on Locked On Patriots, my friend. And Steve, let's get right into it. Because after looking a step too slow, maybe a bit long in the tooth at times, the Patriots are looking to get faster on defense in 2022,

particularly at the linebacker position. The Patriots headed into free agency. They headed into the draft with a clear need on the depth chart, or so we thought. The Patriots chose not to prominently address that position in the offseason. Aside from trading for former Cleveland Browns linebacker Mack Wilson, New England was largely quiet in the linebacker market. So let's start with Mack Wilson. Rare straight up player for player trade brings him into Foxborough. Chase Winovich heads to Cleveland and we know Chase was a fan favorite here. Nonstop motor, great personality. It was a joy to cover. On the field showed flashes of what the Patriots saw in him in Michigan.

A lot of people thought it might go differently here in New England, but injuries prevented him from seeing the field for as much as he should have. Probably a bad logistical fit, hindsight being 20-20. Wilson, on the other hand, being lauded as a better fit for the Patriots' defense. And several analysts, myself included, project him as an inside linebacker playing an off the ball role. Now, I think Wilson has the speed, has the athleticism to earn a starting position here in New England, but you always take the reasonable approach, Bud. So I want to put this question to you. What are your thoughts on Mack Wilson's

place here in New England? Yeah, you know, I thought it was a very intriguing trade. I thought it was a good trade for both teams. I know that's kind of cliche to say that, but I think both players needed a fresh start elsewhere. I, for one, like you, I was so hyped up on Chase Winovich when the Patriots drafted him. And it never really, you know, happened for him here. He showed some nice flashes as a rookie,

but then he seemed to be losing playing time as he went along. And last year he played very, very little, I thought. And you could kind of see the writing on the wall that, you know, he wasn't long for here. So I think it was a good time for him to move on and, you know, find a team that will utilize his talents maybe better than the Patriots were able to. And I think you can say the exact same thing for Mack Wilson.

His rookie year, I thought he was really, really good. And then since then, he's kind of dropped off a little bit. And I think, you know, if there's anyone that can tap that unfulfilled potential, it's Bill Belichick, especially when it comes on defense. They've had a pretty good track record of doing that with several guys. And, you know, when people say, wow, this guy was a bust, well, I say look at Kyle Vannoy. You know, Wilson was a second-round pick.

Vannoy was a high-round pick. And, you know, he was considered a bust in Detroit. He came here. The Patriots used him in a different way, and he thrived. And I think that, you know, the jury is out until we see him on the field, but I think there's a really good chance he can resurrect his career. I agree with you. Look, in terms of his rookie season, I'm glad that you mentioned that. 2019 comes in fifth round selection by the Browns. So naturally, coming in as a fifth rounder,

you don't have that same expectation on your shoulder as some of the lesser known players or whatnot or an earlier round pick that has to live up to that first round, second round height. But he performed extremely well. 14 games he played in his regular season, 82 total tackles, four of those went for a loss, seven passes defensed, one forced fumble, one sack, one interception.

He became a starter for the Browns right off the bat. But you mentioned the decline, a slight drop off over the past two seasons, 88% of the snaps in 2019, down to 43 in 2020, down to 21% last year. So definitely there were reasons for that and we'll get into that in a second as well but again for the Cleveland Browns rotational off the ball role played a regular role on special teams and I think you'll see him continue to play that role on special teams this year for New England he still played a good amount of snaps for Cleveland special teams last year, was still on the field for well over 100, I believe, snaps through that. So he was definitely in there for a good amount of time, but he made the most of his time on the field. What most people don't realize

is that in 2021, still, when his decline was happening, PFF graded him 75.3 overall and just 193 defensive snaps all season long. So when he was out there, he was doing his job. He was really doing it well. Now, injury concerns, that to me is the only thing right now that might derail Mack Wilson. Each of his last two seasons missed at least three games throughout the year. Ongoing knee injuries. He suffered that in 2020, 2021 preseason dealing with a shoulder injury as well. So there are some injury concerns there that could limit his effectiveness in the Patriots defense. But look, Steve, bottom line, even though that uncertainty is there, I think there's

tremendous upside in bringing Mac Wilson aboard. Patriots want to get younger. They want to get faster at the linebacker position. I think he can clearly help in that regard. Oh, I totally agree with that. And like I said, at the time of the trade, I know it sounds like, you know, that's sitting on the fence, but I think it was a good trade for both teams. Absolutely.

And look, I think Chase is going to find a little bit of new life out in Cleveland as well. That might be a better logistical fit for him. So this is one of those rare player-for-player swaps that really could end up benefiting both sides. I don't like to use the term change of scenery all that much. I think that's kind of cliched a lot in sports, but I really think it applies here for both Mack Wilson and for Chase Winovich. And ultimately, it's going

to be Mack that's going to determine how well that trade works out for New England. But Mack Wilson is not going to be the only newcomer on the field for the Patriots this year. That's right. There's a familiar face that hasn't seen the field yet in New England and is getting an awful lot of preseason hype. What are we talking about? Steve and I will discuss that in just a moment when this episode of the Lockdown Patriots podcast continues. But first, folks, level with me. We've all been in a situation at some point in our lives where we were a little tight on cash. Maybe you could only afford to put a few gallons of gas into your gas tank. I know you all are feeling me on that one right now. Or you might have gotten another save a date in the mail and you're wondering how you're going to afford another wedding gift. That's where

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And Locked On NFL has count is countdown that list all week long. So available starting on July 18th. It's available right now. Go to Locked On NFL wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Steve, it's always a pleasure to join me here. So when you join me here on Locked On Patriots, Steve Balistrieri of batsfans.com, folks, is our resident voice of reason. And he's getting us through the midweek part of this pre-camp week when the Patriots open training camp one week from today is the first practice.

And we're all looking forward to it, Steve. It's always an honor and always a privilege to watch this team come together from the ground up. And several newcomers are going to be on the field for the Pats. honor and always a privilege to watch this team come together from the ground up and several newcomers are going to be on the field for the Pats but not a whole lot of new faces when it comes to the linebacking position we just discussed one in Mack Wilson but the newcomer in the linebacker room that is getting an awful lot of preseason buzz right now is Cameron McGrone Patriots selected him in the fifth round of the 2021 NFL draft spent his rookie season on injured reserve so this 2022 is essentially going to be his rookie season

some are saying that the Pats were so high on Cameron that they chose not to address the position in the draft meaning they already had their rookie linebacker that they were ready to trot out this year and believe that he can be the guy that they can hitch their wagon to. They see him as a rookie addition, and a lot of fans and analysts are really looking forward to seeing what he can do on the field. I'm one of them. Expectations are pretty high on Cameron McGrone right now. Steve, do you think he can live up to them?

I do. It's funny because when they drafted him last year, I was a little surprised because at the time that went against the type. You know, the Patriots like those bigger, you know, thumper type of linebackers, you know, the Bentleys, the Hightowers, you know, Kyle Vannoy, Jamie Collins, those bigger type dudes. This guy, he's more of the modern type of NFL linebacker. You know, he's a little bit on the smaller side, but he's very fast.

He's very athletic. He's a sideline to sideline guy. And, you know, at the time, I really didn't even consider him for the Patriots because of that type. And then after they drafted him, I started watching the tape. And like you, I got very excited because I was like, this guy, you know, he can do a lot of the things that they're lacking. And knowing, obviously, that we did last year,

that they probably wouldn't have him last year because of a late-season knee injury he suffered in Michigan. That tells you all you need to know that the Patriots thought so highly of him that they were willing to take a flyer on him all last year. But the good thing was because he was there, he was in the meeting rooms. He was able to take part in the strategy session. So I think he's going to start training camp this year way ahead of the game as you would consider a regular rookie.

I think he'll know the defense inside and out. Now it's just going out and performing and conducting what he needs to do. Yeah, he had that bird's eye view in his rookie season, and I think that's a very good point to make, and I'm glad that you made that because it does give you a little bit of a leg up on the tition. It's true that he is going to be a rookie, and I will warn Patriots fans on this, analysts alike, myself included, temper our expectations on him just a little bit. If for no other reason, I don't think it's fair to Cam to expect him to come out and be a second

year quality player when he hasn't spent any time on an NFL football field yet. There are still going to be rookie mistakes. There are still going to be rookie growing pains, but he is coming in with a better understanding than coming in fresh from a college program. So I think that gives him a leg up on the competition, but in terms of on the field prowess, I'm right there with you. I think this kid projects very well. I think it was definitely the ACL injury against Rutgers in November of 2020 that caused his drop in his draft stock. If that didn't happen, you probably look at Cameron Grone looking at maybe a late first round grade, maybe an early second round grade. I mean, this kid definitely had a lot of pedigree coming out of Michigan and a lot of people were really excited about what he could do. Small sample

size for Michigan where he, you know, in college, he played only 19 games, made 15 starts though. So whenever he was out there on the field, he made his presence felt, finished his collegiate career, 91 tackles, 11 tackles for loss, four sacks, one forced fumble. You're right. This kid's got a lot of speed. He can get after the quarterback. He can be a factor in the run defense and really can change the complexity of the middle part of your defense when you're looking for that extra speed, that extra burst. And I think the youth that he can infuse as well, that toughness, that range, that made him worth the investment for the New England Patriots. And I think he'll add both that speed and athleticism to the position. And again, it's his rookie season, but I'm looking forward to seeing Cam McGrone.

I don't think he's going to be your average rookie. Based on your understanding of where the Patriots may look in terms of giving Cam McGrone a little bit more this year, if McGrone does take a bigger role in the Patriots' defense, is there a player right now on the linebacking core or maybe on the edge, maybe in the front seven that may not benefit? I think is probably the best way for me to put it, most diplomatic way for me to put it,

from Cameron Grone possibly taking a bigger role this year. Well, I'm looking at, as the position lies right now and the guys that they have on the roster. And, you know, I think, you know, Bentley will be an early down linebacker in a lot of games for them, you know, depending on who the opponent is. And, you know, we mentioned Mack Wilson. So if McGrone steps up to the plate and he's playing like we think he is capable of early, that could cut into either one of those guys. Sometimes even another guy we haven't mentioned yet, Raekwon McMillan, who had an outstanding camp last year as an inside linebacker. So I think they have the bodies this year. They'll be able to mix and match a little bit,

depending on who the opponent is. But I think you could make a case for any of those three guys to lose some snaps if McGrone hits the ground running and takes off. Yeah, absolutely. And look, the Patriots have a good amount of bodies at linebacker, working on, as we speak, a very early roster projection. I always try to do at least one of these pre-camp just so that I have something to look back at and realize exactly how wrong I was going into training camp. But bottom line, I have the

Patriots retaining a robust crew at the linebacker position. Maybe that's the best way for me to put it. Check it out. It'll be on Patriots Country of Sports Illustrated on Thursday morning, folks. So definitely go and check that out. But I definitely have them retaining a good amount of linebackers. They have a good amount of players at this position and a lot of good players that can play. Do they have that over-the-top superstar? Well, maybe not. I don't know.

Maybe you can consider Matt Junon in that role. I think he is capable of playing that role, but the Patriots have a lot of good, capable players, and we'll see what they can bring to the table this year. And that does lead me quite nicely into what will end up being my final topic for you today, my friend, and that is who will be the most valuable veteran on this Patriots roster. Talked about some of the newcomers, but the veterans are going to have to play up to par

if the Patriots want to have success in 2022 at the linebacker position. Who does Steve and I think is going to be that MVV? We'll talk about that in just a moment when this episode of the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. But first, folks, from the people who invented healthy and tasty comes the latest gift to your taste buds. Our good friends at Built have done it again. You've probably tried the amazing Coconut Brownie Chunk Built Bar.

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Steve Balistrieri joins me here today. He is a resident voice of reason. He is my Patriots Paizan, columnist extraordinaire for Patsfans.com, the co-host of two great podcasts my Patriots Paisan columnist extraordinaire for Patsfans.com the co-host of two great podcasts Patriots fourth and two and one Patriots place Steve we always love talking defense and you are our defensive expert always bring the knowledge the way no one else can and we've talked a little bit about the new faces so far here on the pod today they're going to be fun

to watch but as I said coming into the break the Patri today. They're going to be fun to watch, but as I said coming into the break, the Patriots, if they're going to have success, they need strong contributions from their veterans. Matt Judon, obviously the top option last year. Very good season, first year in New England. Juwan Bentley had a very nice bounce back season as well, so they're going to be heavily relied upon to provide not just great on-field play, but wisdom and counsel that's needed at that position. But the Patriots don't just have these two guys as savvy veterans. There are other veterans on this team that are capable of making some contribution. When you look at this roster from top to bottom, Steve, which of the veterans do you feel are ready to step up and who

is your most valuable veteran for 2022 well you know we've been talking to linebackers and mostly the inside guys but i think in my opinion the most valuable veteran they have coming in is judon i you know when i look at him the the one area on the defense that we're still kind of you know we're the pass rush after judon kind of fell off last year and you know uh chase winovich and uh is now elsewhere so uh you know you have josh uche who's pretty much still unproven you have ronnie perkins who's entering his second year they need a big year from judon, if guys like Perkins and Uche can step up, then that's all fine and great, which will make Judon even better. But I thought they had to rely on him too much last year. He played like 81% of the snaps, which I thought was far too much. And I think that was a big

reason why we saw him tail off at the end of the season. I think he was just wore out, but I think he is the guy they're going to be relying on to provide the pass rush off the edge, you know? So I, I think he's the most valuable guy. I think if Bentley is your most valuable veteran this this year then i think it's showing you have weaknesses elsewhere absolutely completely agreed i think in terms of mvv that most valuable veteran folks complete agreement with steve on this matt judon has to step up and i believe he will and look i think for the most part last year he did we talked about this believe it or not a little

bit last week when we talked about the defensive line. And we talked about Christian Barmore and how much of a role he played. When Christian started to have problems with his knees and he started to have the injury issues going on into the season, he wasn't drawing the attention of two, maybe three even defenders. I'm sorry, two, three blockers on the offensive line, all of a sudden it allowed teams to be able to dedicate more resources to trying to slow down Matt Judon. So the combination of him being a little bit worn out and probably seeing a little more intense coverage slowed his production a little bit. If Matt is able to do that and the Patriots front seven does its job,

that's going to be key for the New England Patriots. If he can start getting home and making life difficult for opposing quarterbacks, this linebacker crew is going to be a lot better than they're being given credit for at the national level so in terms of value absolutely i 100 agree with you on judan i'm going to ask you this question in just a moment in terms of who you're going to be watching closest when it comes to training camp. I'll give you mine first because I'm really looking forward to this coming week and watching these guys out there. It's the first week, so we're not going to get a whole lot in terms of game plan knowledge, but I really am looking forward to seeing Josh Uche out on the field because I think this is a make or break season for him. I had a lot of expectation,

a lot of high praise for him going in, talked to several people that were close to the Michigan program that were really high on this kid. Had a great season in 2020, really looked like he was ready to step up and be that linebacker of the future. 2021 just didn't live up to expectation. And look, he did have the ankle injury, was placed on injured reserve for a little while, so that slowed his production. But when you look at Josh Uche and you look at tape of him at Michigan and what he's capable of doing,

even that first year, I love the speed, I love the athleticism, and he's got that system savvy under his belt now that I think can allow him to make that jump, maybe even a little bit more than a guy like a Ronnie Perkins or an Anthony Jennings or a Cam McGrone, who we talked about last time. I think he's going to be used as a pass rush specialist. I think he can be an every down move linebacker, but that may take a little time. Patriots are going to have to see more from him than they've seen in order to put

him in that role. But I love the versatility that he can bring to the table. And in training camp, I think you're going to see him in 5-1 looks. I think you're going to see him in 5-1 looks. I think you're going to see him in 4-2, 4-3. He can even move back if they want to run a little bit more of that traditional 3-4. I think the Patriots are getting away from that a little bit, but you may see him in that. But ultimately, I think he's going to have to step up his game to earn that spot. But I have high hopes for Josh Uche. So I'm watching him closely.

Steve, who are you going to be watching closely as we move toward training camp yeah uche is a great uh topic of discussion because you know i could see the patriots using him on early downs maybe in the inside linebacker role where he's had trouble setting the edge and then sliding him to the outside um you know during passing downs to take advantage of that athleticism that he has um the guy i'm probably going to be watching closely them and then i'm going back to cameron mcgroan um i i know it's putting a lot of pressure on a guy who's essentially a rookie, but I just want to see what he can do. Uh, and I want to see if he's completely healthy now, because a lot of times it takes a while to get back to where you really were, you know, as a football player after an injury

like that. But I'm just really excited to see what he can do. I know he's essentially still a rookie and we have to temper things, but I'm excited to see what he can bring to the table for this defense this year. Absolutely. And yeah, you know what? It is maybe a little bit of extra pressure to put on a young player, but McGrone is probably not your average rookie, and I think he's shown a wisdom and a maturity beyond his years. We had a chance to talk to him very briefly during minicamp, and he's

someone that understands the role that he needs to play, and he understands the expectations that might be put on him at this level, so to get to that next level, he's going to have to put the time out there on the field, and I think McGrone realizes it, and I think he'll handle it. The question is, will the field prowess be enough to give him that time out on the field

that he needs in order to be a strong member of this linebacking corps moving forward? But I like the addition. I like the selection that you've made in terms of who you're going to be keeping your sharp eye on. And, folks, we want to hear who you're going to be keeping your sharp eye on as training camp begins next week. Mini camp already done last month, folks. Can't believe it's already training camp, but here we are. And we're very much looking forward to covering it for you here on Locked on Patriots. Folks, always please be sure to follow my good friend, my Patriots

Paisan, Steve Balistrieri, at SteveB7SFG. You can always find his great work at PatsFans.com. You can find him on the microphone, not just one, but two amazing podcasts, Patriots 4th and 2, hosted by he, Derek Havens, and Russ Goldman, one of the great Patriots listens out there. And then, of course, two good friends of the program join him each and every week on One Patriots Place found on e2gsports.com, and you can find that alongside Thomas Murphy and Claire Cooper every single week.

Steve, what can I say? Always honored, always humbled by your presence. Thank you so much for joining me today, my friend. Oh, always a pleasure, man. I look forward to talking football with you every week. So anytime, I'm always here for you. Absolutely. And folks, once again, thank you for making Locked On Patriots a first listen

and also a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage. Now that you've made us your first listen, go and check out our good friends at Locked On NFL. Make them your second listen every day. Remember, free and available on all platforms. On behalf of my good friend, Steve Balistrieri, I'm Mike DeBate. Stay safe, stay well.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great day, everyone.