Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - New England Patriots Past, Present and Future: Mac Jones, Bill Belichick, Joe Judge and More

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

The New England Patriots fate is 2023 has yet to be written. However, those with a firm grasp on their history may have the greatest insight on predicting their immediate future. Host Mike D’Abate welcomes the triumvirate of hosts of the Untold Patriots Stories Podcast, Bob Hyldburg, Scott Prusak and Dave Usher to discuss Mac Jones, Bill Belichick, Joe Judge, JuJu Smith-Schuster and more in their preview of the Pats 2023 NFL season.Find and follow Locked On Patriots on your favorite podcast platforms:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-patriots-daily-podcast-on-the-new-england/id1140512627Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1c5ZxFmwg3WbfxAU3tR5Ve?si=k196wH-yRqifUcQQz8SjIQStitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-patriotsAnd follow host Mike D’Abate on Twitter, where he’ll be sharing the latest news about the New England Patriots and talking with fans.Twitter: @mdabateNFLSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.FanDuelMake Every Moment More. Don’t miss the chance to get your No Sweat First Bet up to TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS in Bonus Bets when you go FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG(CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat(CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Will the ghosts of Patriots past have an impact on their future? Better yet, will they have an impact on their present? Stick around, you're about to be locked in to the Locked On Patriots podcast. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful. Welcome to the Lockdown Patriots Podcast, a proud part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

Subscribe or follow for free on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Be sure that you get the latest episode as soon as it's available. I am your host, Mike DeBate, and I cover your New England Patriots for Patriots Country of Sports Illustrated. So reach out to me and let me know what's on your mind on Twitter at MDABATENFL.

And while you're out there showing some much-deserved love to the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Locked On Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots. And Pats fans, as always, thank you for joining me here today. A special shout-out, a heartfelt shout-out, as always, to all of you Locked On Everydayers out there. All of you Locked On Patriots loyalists, those of you who make this pod possible, my unending appreciation to you. I'm honored, I'm humbled by your support each and every day. And, Pats fans, today on Locked On Patriots, I have the pleasure of welcoming not just one, not even two, but three of the top Patriots historians in the business today. That's right, folks. It's going to be a fun episode, a special episode here on Locked On Patriots. You might

say that my guests today are the caretakers of the untold, as in the untold Patriot stories podcast, the triumvirate of hosts of that podcast. Join me here today on the pod, Bob Heilberg, author of total Patriots. Folks, it's a tremendous read. If you haven't had the chance to check this out, please do so. Also joined by Scott Kruzak, Dave Usher, and they will lend their wisdom and counsel to the pod by discussing the Patriots OTA session from Wednesday. Mack Jones, Bill Belichick, Joe Judge, no topic is left unsaid, and they're going to actually inject a little bit of historical context into this discussion today.

And with that historical insight, they're going to enlighten us on how this is preparing them for the upcoming 2023 Patriots season. What do they think of the Patriots offense? What do they think of the defense, the special teams, the coaching? Myself and my three extreme guests today, Bob, Scott, and Dave are going to break it all down for you. So without further ado, let's welcome in the hosts of the Untold Patriots Stories here today on Locked On Patriots. Patriots fans, thank you once again for making Locked On Patriots

a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage and also your first listen every day. Remember, Locked On Patriots is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And folks, in the spirit of your team, what better way can we celebrate your favorite team in Foxborough than three of the greatest Patriots historians I've ever had the privilege of meeting in this walk of life. They are the triumvirate of hosts of Untold Patriot Stories podcast.

Three of the great guys you'll ever meet as well. Bob Heilberg, Scott Kruzak, Dave Usher. Gentlemen, welcome to Locked On Patriots. Long time coming. So happy to welcome you here to the pod. Thanks for having us on, Mike. Appreciate it. Looking forward to it.

Glad to be here. Absolutely. And gentlemen, you know, I really feel like I'm in the presence of Patriots historical royalty right now. And I truly am, folks. If you ever listen to Untold Patriot Stories, I guarantee you, you will love this listen. Do not miss an opportunity to check it out wherever you get your podcasts. Something that we're all waiting for right now. And that is a prognostication on the 2023 New England Patriots.

After the season that the Patriots had in 2022, everybody is looking to clear the slate and move forward. We've heard Bill O'Brien talk about it. Matt Jones joined us at OTAs on Wednesday and talked about clearing that slate and moving forward. So in the interest of moving forward, Scott, I'm going to start with you. The Patriots offense clearly struggled in 2022 under the direction of Matt Patricia, just a regression in most statistical categories. Patriots unfortunately looked extremely uncomfortable as did Matt Jones. And we're starting to see indications that this team may be on the rebound. Bill O'Brien coming in, really establishing himself as the alpha in the room. Matt looks

to be more comfortable. Things look to be a little bit more cohesive, but you himself as the alpha in the room. Mack looks to be more comfortable. Things look to be a little bit more cohesive. But you know as well as I that practices only tell you so much. And a lot of times what you need to do is take a look at where the Patriots have been in order to determine where they're going. Based on what you've seen historically with the Patriots, bouncing back after adversity, especially under Bill Belichick, what are you looking to see in this Patriots offense this year,

and do you believe we'll see a better product than we did last season? Well, I think if you just look at it from the point of view of having Bill O'Brien in charge of the offense, I think there's no way that it can't be any better. But by all reports today at the OTA today, it was noted that Bill O'Brien was kind of left to himself and Bill Belichick wasn't in his air, so the offense is truly his. I think if you remember back to last year,

the reports coming out were that Belichick was in the air of Matt Patricia and Joe Judge a lot of the time. So I would think just by that alone, if you're giving it to Bill O'Brien, who's done it before and ran an effective offense, I think if you're just giving it to him to run it and not get involved and kind of have the hands-off approach, I think that's one step in the right direction. I think the biggest thing is the offense really hasn't changed much from last year i mean they added mike kisecki but other than that there's really not a lot of difference i guess the biggest improvement would have to come from

mac jones um you know i think this year he needs to be much more of a leader uh i think he needs to you know show his presence and you know being in charge of the team on the field. I think the outburst that he had on the sidelines last year, I don't think helped his leadership situation at all. I guess my one concern would be, it looks like we got a stud cornerback in the draft, but we really didn't address the offense. I really think that Mac Jones needs one of those special weapons that every offense that's a special offense or a good offense in the NFL,

you know, they all have one. I mean, we had, you know, Diggs and Buffalo, you know, every team that does anything on offense has one of those, and we don't. You know, DeAndre Hopkins is out there right now, and the word is it'll take 10 to 13 million to get him you know he might be a little bit past his prime but he needs what just one of those main guys because we really don't know you know what we have i mean born could be that guy but you know he ended up in the doghouse last year so even though he put up some good numbers and games he was relegated to the bench. So he got born, you know,

you have Gusecki that they added, you got Hunter Henry, you know, Devante Parker, right? I mean, I don't know who, who else you, you know, who's the, who's the main guy, you know, who's that guy that can, you know, they have to double or, you know, it has that breakaway speed down the field you know i guess you know we're going to find that out this year right absolutely i think that's a fair point i mean you look at the new england patriots they don't have that take the top off the defense type receiver or that number one caliber receiver that has not just the prowess on the field, but also the reputation to go along with it.

And I know some of the listeners are probably going to stop when I say that, but reputation does count. A name like DeAndre Hopkins, even though he may be missing a step in terms of his speed, he's still a contested catch machine and someone that can automatically command the attention of a defense just by walking on the field. So I agree with you. I think there is a concern there. Bob, all right, I'll throw the question to you now. With the New England Patriots and the way they're currently constituted when it comes to this offense, Scott mentioned

some names, Devontae Parker, Mike Gusecki coming in, obviously Hunter Henry coming back for another tour of duty. Obviously, Kendrick Bourne is someone we talked about. Tyquan Thornton looked phenomenal out on the field on Wednesday during OTAs. Is this a concern for the New England Patriots right off the bat? The draft picks that we picked up, I mean, I know they're rookies, but I'm hearing some, you know, good things about some of these guys. We got two guys, KB, you know, Bourne and Boutte, or whatever how you pronounce his name.

And then we got Double D, Demario Douglas. I mean, so I like some of the fun names that are out there. And, you know, one of the guys that I really want to look for is, you know, we used to have Steve Martin on the defensive line, and now we got Bill Murray on the team. So, you know, we're hoping that we're hoping that we can bring some levity and some fun to the offensive line now. So I'm excited. But the offensive line is a big concern for me.

I mean, the receivers, they're going to be fine. Just give Mack a chance to throw the ball downfield. And I think Hunter Henry is due for a comeback. And Juju, I think, is going to get in the end zone. Jacoby just didn't get into the end zone. Let's get some guys in the end zone. Let's put some points up. Yeah, without question.

I'm so glad that you mentioned Juju because in a lot of ways he is sometimes, I think, the forgotten man in this offense. And it's odd to say that because he was one of the more high-profile free agent acquisitions the Patriots made. But I think a lot of people are forgetting his prowess in adding yards after the catch. His ability to do last year, like you said, Jacoby unfortunately could not do. It wasn't that he wasn't capable of providing solid pass catching ability from Mac Jones. It just wasn't his game.

And that's where Mac is at his best. The receiver gets under the defense. And then from that point, it puts the receiver in a position to add yards after the catch. That's where Bill O'Brien is at his best. That is where Mac Jones is at his best. And you mentioned the offensive line, and I'm glad that you did. And Dave, I don't want to put you on the spot but I will put you on the spot the Patriots obviously had their offensive line struggles last season Isaiah Wynn just did not round into form in the tackle position switch Trent Brown had his down season you and I think a lot of people out there in Patriots nation but uh he's been maligned on this podcast and you know what we're gonna wish Isaiah the best of luck in Miami and just it luck in miami and absolutely just save for two games per year um but bottom line the patriots have chosen not to

go with high profile uh replacements at the tackle position this year a lot of people thought they'd go that direction in the uh nfl draft they did not r Riley Rafe, Calvin Anderson, two solid veterans that are going to come in, provide good minutes for you, but they're not game changers at the position. How worried are you about this offensive line protecting Mac Jones? Because as good as he looked on Wednesday throwing the ball, if he's not getting the time he needs to complete passes, we might be doomed to see a repeat of 2022. I know no one in Patriots Nation wants to see that.

No, that's a great point. I mean, you know, first of all, I think Scott was on his best behavior because Scott's – you threw him with a topic he usually likes to expound on in maybe a little bit of a negative way. But so – and one of those being Mac Jones. You know, Mac Jones, I've kind of said that I give him a pass for last year. I don't think he had a fair, it wasn't a fair thing to judge him on with what he was working with, in my opinion. So this is a make or break year for him.

And he's not, I bring that up because I say he's not the most mobile guy in the world world to get back to your question. He needs that protection. As you mentioned, we addressed it with a few free agent people. You know, they took a couple of guards in the draft. But what I think with the biggest change is going to come about there is with the hiring of Adrian Klum. I think that's going to be a big piece of it. You know, we were lucky enough to have on our podcast or an upcoming show that we've taped already, Dante Scanacchia recently, asked him about his thoughts on Clem, you know, and he gave him his stamp of approval. So while I like to think I appreciate all those accolades at the beginning that we know a lot about the Patriots, I'm going to default to Dante and his 34 years of experience with the team to say that, you know, he interestingly enough, I won't, you know, people come come watch the podcast when we when we post it.

But one of the things he said was not only did he get to see him as a player, he got to see him as a coach. He went down there and checked him out. And at the end of it, he said to him, and I'll clean this up a little bit. Wow, Adrian, you're a bigger a-hole than I was as a, as an offensive line coach. And that was meant in a complimentary way. So, you know, he really, one of his things he said was he really runs a tight ship and gets these guys together. So if they do have some flexibility and you saw by the OTAs today, you had guys, you know, doing different positions. I mean, obviously Brown was out, so they needed some, some, some people over at left tackle. They experimented a little bit with that

today. So they can have some flexibility there. Hopefully that, that they can give the time that Mac needs. Yeah. Great point. Michael Wainu and Trent Brown, both absent from the field on Wednesday, and Wainu definitely was expected. Trent Brown, you kind of have to expect that early on, especially when you're talking about his age, the position that he plays, injury history. You want to make sure he's as healthy as possible, and I think that's exactly what the Patriots are doing right now. But once again, you bring that up and you bring up the wisdom and counsel of Dante Skarnecchia several times on this podcast I've called him the ultimate consigliere of patriotism you ever need help if you ever need help who is a better consigliere than Dante Skarnecchia

and definitely folks check that out on untold patriot stories I'm going to be first in line to check that out anytime Dante puts voice to microphone, it's gold. And with these gentlemen, it's even more gold. Folks, we have talked about the offense, but one of the biggest off-season acquisitions for the Patriots offensively was a new offensive coordinator. We've danced around the subject of Bill O'Brien a little bit. How's he going to work with Bill Belichick? How's he going to work with Adrian Clem?

What does it mean for the Patriots on the field? And Gerard Mayo taking on a bigger does it mean for the Patriots on the field? And Gerard Mayo taking on a bigger role with the New England Patriots. Talking Patriots coaches and the defensive side of the ball when this episode of the Lockdown Patriots podcast continues. Patriots fans, today's episode is brought to you by our good friends over at FanDuel Sportsbook. Make a fast break to FanDuel during the NBA playoffs because right now new customers get a no sweat first bet up to $1,000 that's $1,000 back in bonus bets if your first bet doesn't win I know the NBA finals might be leaving a little bit of a bad taste in your mouth if you are a

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And we're also going to be talking a little Mac Jones. But today, we continue to be honored by the presence, the wisdom, the counsel, Bob, Scott, Dave. Incredible stuff so far, gentlemen. And we talked a lot about the offense in the previous segment. But one of the Patriots' biggest offseason splashes was the move to bring in Bill O'Brien from Alabama, second to our duty here in New England, as the offensive coordinator. So far, you're hearing all the right things. We spoke to Mac Jones after practice. He said that the offense feels comfortable. Bill is commanding the room. It feels like things are back to normal. Things you want to hear your

quarterback say, but things that you're a little unsettled that your quarterback had to say, which means that they were so out of sorts last year. But you know what? We're not going to talk about the past. We're going to focus on the future. And we also talked to Bill Belichick, who had nothing but glowing things to say about Bill O'Brien. Bob, we'll start with you because we started with Scott in the previous segment. When you look at this team, the way the coaching staff is set up, primarily on offense right now with Bill, of course, obviously holding the Trump card, for lack of a better term. He is the top of the heap. But with Bill, with Adrian, like Dave said last year,

what does this coaching staff align and tell you about the type of product we're going to see in New England in 2023? Well, there's a tremendous amount of pressure. I mean, the Patriots haven't won a playoff game in a long time. It seems like decades ago, even though it's been less than that. But we're so hungry for a playoff. So they've really got to step it up. And they've got a really beginning of the season to really win a saying they're going to win the division. I mean, it's going to be a tough division. So it's good that they're starting now and getting on the same page. And I'm excited about it because having Mac comfortable, I mean, that's the whole thing of the mindset of having him comfortable and going out there and having that expertise of having Bill coach him before. And when Bill was here, you know, in 2011, I mean, we had two quarterbacks that the pass rating was over 100. So if Zappi's got to step in, you know, here and there,

I don't know that that's going to happen, but let's hope it doesn't. Let's give Zappi another year. But I think, Matt, being comfortable is the whole thing. And I'm excited about this season because those are two heavyweight guys, Bill and Bill, and we need both of them to step it up, and the pressure's on them more than it has been for a long, long time to win and at least make the playoffs and win a playoff game, so there's a lot of people that are holding their breath that Bill and Bill's are going to pull this through. Yeah, you guys lot of people that are holding their breath that the Bill and Bills are going to

pull this through. Yeah, you guys being the historians that you are, I don't need to tell you the excitement level that it sends through football fans when you hear about the two Bills doing their thing at the top of the heap and coaching staff. Obviously, that was with the Giants, but they did a pretty good job here were a couple of years in New England as well here. But we're looking for more from these Bills without any question. We want the Patriots to get to the promised land this time. And Scott, that lends me quite nicely into my next question for you, because we hear a lot about the pressure on Bill O'Brien.

Bob just talked about it. And coming in, righting the ship, kind of clearing up the difficulties that they had with Matt Patricia last year and Joe Judge. And it just was not an easy time when it came to the Patriots offense. But bottom line, if we're looking at Bill Belichick right now, two out of the last three seasons, missing the playoffs. And people are talking about Bill potentially being on the hot seat if they don't make the

playoffs this year. 71 years of age. We know that he's trying to chase Don Shula and get that record. But how much pressure realistically do you see on Bill Belichick this year in terms of having to perform? Could he possibly be on the hot seat? Well, he hit on a good one because there's a lot to talk about with this one too. You know, it's funny to say that Bill Belichick, one of the greatest coaches of all time, would be on the hot seat. I think he might be, but there's a feeling out there that he's kind of just –

he has two years. They're thinking it's going to take two years to break the record, and he's just kind of coaching out the strength. I think the Bill Belichick that we think of when they were winning the Super Bowls, I don't know if that's the Bill Belichick that we have anymore. And I hate to say that, but it's kind of the truth. Some of the decisions he's made, you know, you take last year as an example. I think that would be the most glaring one.

For somebody who says, you know, I'm going to do what's right for the team. I don't think anything he did last year was right for the team. Now you look at, you know, you look at this year and I guess you're always expecting, and I was listening to Felger and Maz today, and they were saying, so what do you think about today? And it was on Zolak and Bertrand too. What do you think is going to happen today? And some people said, well, this might be the year where he kind of talks to the media a little bit more,

and he says he takes some blame and all that stuff. And I think Zolak said, yeah, that's not going to happen. It's going to be the same old Belichick. And they said that there's probably not another coach in sports. And when they said this, I really never thought of this, but there's really not another coach in sports that could treat the press the way he treats the press and not give any answers. And that could be directed from the owner too.

You know, at some point there has to be some humility to say, you know, last year, you know, I made some decisions that adversely affected the offense and, you know, we're not going to talk about that. But, you know, this year, you know, we've made some decisions to write that. You know, and I mean the latest thing is this whole thing with joe judge i mean i i don't think i'd ever see such like a non-reaction to something where attention to detail has been a staple of the patriots for a long time right absolutely and there was absolutely no reaction to losing two otas for something that joe judge did scheduling two two meetings in the same day over eight hours,

I think is what the rule was. I mean, this is somebody that, I mean, in all honesty, Mike, he shouldn't even be here this year. He shouldn't even be on the coaching staff this year after last year. And from what a lot of people say, there's not a lot of people that respect him other than Bill Belichick. And then on TV he says today, well, he'll do whatever I ask him. So, I mean, again, are you making the right decision for the coaching staff

just because you have a yes guy that you're not paying because the Giants are still paying him? I mean, we have, like Bob said, right, to reiterate his point, we haven't won in a while. So we don't have Tom Brady anymore anymore and you can't keep running the team like you have tom brady and that's what he's done since he's been gone you don't have him so you can't talk to the press the same way he did you can't you know talk to the players to say i mean something has to change and i think that's the biggest worry i have about this year i don't, besides Bill O'Brien, you know, I don't see a change in, you know, how he talks and all that stuff.

And does he even talk today that, and I think you might have heard this too, Mike, that there seems to still be a disconnect with Belichick and Jones. There's an, I forget how they termed it, but there's, it's almost like there hasn't been that meeting where Belichick said to him, hey, listen, you know what? I made some mistakes last year and, you know, righted the ship. Like there hasn't been that conversation of, hey, you know what? I did some things wrong that didn't help you last year. So, I mean, it's a long-winded answer, but I just don't think – I just don't see the – nothing's changed.

I mean, we can't keep making bad decisions and not what's doing right for the team and expect what we've been seeing to change. That would be my biggest worry. Yeah, and I think a lot of people in Patriots Nation share your curiosity and they also share your anxiety on that too, Scott. When it comes to Joe Judge, yeah, I think a lot of people in Patriots Nation share your curiosity and they also share your anxiety on that too, Scott. When it comes to Joe Judge, yeah, I think a lot of people. When we tried to press him a little bit on the subject, Bill was basically very standoffish, saying we've moved on. It's in the past. We're not going to talk about it.

We're focused on the field today. I'm accountable. I'm responsible. And that was it. And that's pretty much when he said those words, we pretty much knew that that was all that was going to be said on that. So, Mike, let me ask you a question. So when you when you say that right so think about think about what he's saying so he's saying he's accountable but but he never comes out and says i mean you could say the same thing and placate everybody if you said you know what i'm just gonna i'm gonna talk about it once you know

last year you know i made some decisions that weren't didn't work out well um you know but i you know in the off season i addressed those issues and i don't expect it to be that way this year so we're moving on but he never takes that he never he never takes that he says he's accountable but he never comes out and says this is what i did right so i hear you he's talking out of both sides of his mouth well Well, if you're accountable, then say you're accountable. Don't just say I'm accountable. So what does that mean? I guess is my question. And I think in a lot of ways, what that was, was this is all you're going to get on the subject. And that's pretty much that. I think that's where it ended because

the questions pretty much ended after that point when it came to Joe Judge, the OTA fiasco, that pretty much put an end to it. So I agree with you. I think there is still a lot of uneasiness about Joe Judge being here. I will say this from the action that we saw on the field on Wednesday, he was very involved with the special teams, you know, aspects, very involved with a lot of the special teamers out there. So it's looking like that's probably where his concerted efforts are going to be concentrated for the 2023 season, which it is a specialty. That's what he did well up here when he was a coach years ago for the New England Patriots. Dave, when it comes to the Patriots' defensive side of the ball, there haven't been many

overt changes. But one thing that didn't change a little bit in the offseason was gerard mayo was supposedly he was getting much more of a promotion he's still on this patriot staff even though a lot of people believe that he might chase a defensive coordinator position somewhere else maybe even a head coaching position um the job title has not come but apparently new responsibilities have come as a result. Is this a good move for the New England Patriots defense? Is Gerrard going to end up becoming that defensive coordinator, or might he even be head coach in the waiting at this point?

Well, good. I want to talk some positivity now, so that works out well. Yes, I think them retaining Mayo was a great decision. You know, it is curious about what position he's going to, a role he's going to have on the team. His title is the same as Steve Belichick's, which is interesting. You know, but I think he is someone that they look at as being molded for the future. Whether that's here or not, I don't know, because, you know,

we don't know what is going to happen with Bill and that sort of, you know, it's been kind of some of the issues to go off the question for a minute is that he used to seem to have something in place each time a coach left. And that sort of stopped happening where now we've got seen some of the stop gaps, but back to the D the defensive part of it yeah i mean i think uh between uh godshaw and um barmore they have a couple of young studs there on the defensive line you know i love wise um you know i think guy is good um they brought in the second rounder there, Keon White, you know, on the end.

So I think that they're pretty strong up front. You know, I think that Dietrich has turned himself into a leader there, really working with those guys. And then, of course, you know, Judon, he's him and stevenson for the team as a whole that's really the faces of the team right um he's sort of the the the alpha right now um you got bentley you got uche you know some of these guys and then you know really where i think a lot of things are won and lost in the nfl now obviously we always talk about quarterback play but for me for my money you know i talked about as edge rushers but the cornerbacks to me is probably number two right where you need to have that stud you need a quarterback and then for my money you need the the cornerback and i think they got a fantastic pick it's at 17 there with Gonzalez. I think the, the Jones boys showed some promise, you know, obviously you know, there's going to be some big shoes to fill with McCourty but that's more on a leadership

level. I mean, no disrespect to him. He had lost a step a little bit in my opinion. But, you know, as you saw today, they worked out a bunch of guys there. They have Mills working at the position. I think Mills is a very serviceable player. Um, you know, uh, peppers, I'm glad to see they brought him back. I was a little concerned when they, when they didn't at the time, I think Duggar has, um, some really good upside. He needs, he, he misses some plays and we've talked about this before. I'm a safety guy. So that, you know, maybe I'm, maybe that's a little bit wishful thinking on my

part, but you know, Bledsoe Phillips, they all saw spots for that free safety position to fill in today. So I think there's, you know, and, and let's go back to it again for a minute. They may not have a defensive coordinator per se, but they have maybe the all-time mastermind in defense of Bill Belichick, right? So if anyone's coaching these guys up, our next man up philosophy, you know, they're fairly deep in these positions, you know, assuming no injuries, let's not, you know, knock on wood there. I think this is one of their bright spots. and i think a lot of people would agree i

definitely agree with you this team is stacked on defense um and i think the additions that they've made in terms of making uh christian gonzalez their first round draft pick obviously they're going to miss the savvy they're going to miss the on-field presence of devon mccourty no one's denying that um but when you can fill that position physically with guys like Jalen Mills, I think you will see Adrian Phillips play a little bit more free this year because of the experience that he has. Even though it's not his forte, I still think he's capable of providing that type of leadership that the Patriots are going to need.

And Kyle Duggar, I think, a step up year for him. So good stuff in the secondary. The front seven continues to be a staple of this team as well. And again, you know, Bill Belichick and Gerard Mayo and Stephen Belichick running things on the coaching side of the ball. I think the Patriots are well equipped to have this defense, hold them in check when maybe the offense might not be up to the challenge. And hopefully they will be a little bit more this year with Bill O'Brien.

Gentlemen, it's always a pleasure, always an honor when you guys join me here but we're not quite done yet folks because we're going to do a little round robin gentlemen and uh based on your historical knowledge of the new england patriots because you guys have covered this team you've seen this team you've been fans you've been through the ups the downs the highs and the lows when you look at this team in 2023 based on the stuff you've seen from other teams what is your prediction for the new england patriots doesn't have to be a numerical record might be a little bit early if you want to throw one in you're more than welcome to do it uh but what do you see coming down the pike for these New England Patriots? I guess a bold prediction or a safe prediction, depending on the move that you're in. Bob, we'll start with you. They have to win at least 10 games. They really got to win the games. I mean, last year they lost a couple of games in the last two minutes. They won a big

game against the Jets in the last play. I mean, they got to play smart. And if they play smart and they stay healthy, even though it's a tough division, I mean, I'm not scared so much of Aaron Rodgers. The Jets are always the Jets. The Bills have had their chance. And if they don't do it, there's even more pressure on the Bills now than there ever has been before. So I see them faltering, and I see that there's an opening.

And Miami plays is tough, but if everything falls to play and everyone stays healthy, I think we got some athletes. These last couple drafts I'm excited about. So I'm looking at 10 wins, and the Bill and Bill show leads us to the playoffs. So I have to be optimistic, and maybe I'm sweet dreams, but if we want to be a fan, you always got to be optimistic, and that's what life's all about, being optimistic. So I'm saying 10. Definitely.

You've got a sympathetic ear here. I try to be as positive as I can be here on Locked On, Patriots. Scott, we go to you. Based on your historical knowledge, based on your gut reactions, based on what we've talked about tonight, what are your predictions or what is your feeling regarding these 2023 New England Patriots? Well, I think we're going to see a better product on the field this year

than we saw last year. I think you're going to see, obviously, a better offense. But I think by what we talked about, I think we're going to see, obviously, a better offense. But I think by what we talked about, I think we're going to kind of get more old-school Patriots this year than we have been in the past. I think Ramondre Stevenson is going to be a big factor this year. I think Ty Montgomery. I think we're going to look at more of a ball control offense,

kind of like in the past. I think they are going to take some shots in the passing game, but I think the way you guys talked about they loaded up on defense, I think defense is going to be their strong point. I think they're going to look to try to control time of possession with the running backs they have. You know, Ty Montgomery, you can catch a pass out of the backfield. So I think you're going to see a different kind of offense.

And like I said, probably I would think they're going to go back to that short passing game. And as far as a record, I'm going to say 9-8. I think they're going to end up with the winning record. But they've got a tough schedule. And, you know, I think when you look at if you match talent to talent, you know, it's hard to say that you can compare them. I mean, at least let's say on offense.

I mean, I think if you look at Miami, Buffalo, and even New York, I mean, the Jets, eventually one year they're going to have to have a good year. I mean, they're loaded on wide receiver. I mean, they do have Aaron Rodgers now. So if you look at pure offensive talent, not knowing what Mac Jones is going to, you know, is Mac Jones going to turn into, you know, a star in the league? Is he going to turn into, you know, a very good quarterback? Not knowing that, if you stack up talent for each team in the division

and even in the AFC, it's hard to say that the Patriots measure up. They got a lot of good guys, but again, they don't have that star. And it could be Ramondre Stevenson. It could be him. Schuster, I didn't mention him in the beginning, but really if you look at it, he was a move that the Patriots make a lot of. He kind of fell to the Patriots. They didn't have to pay a lot of money for him.

So it's not like they went out and got that stud wide receiver. I mean, Juju kind of fell to them and then it was the right amount of money. So the Patriots signed him. So like I said, that would be my only, that would be my only caveat, but I think they're going to be defensively strong. I think they're going to go back to, you know, a ball control offense. So, and you know, they'll, they'll be nine and back to a ball control offense. They'll be 9-8, and hopefully I'm wrong and they win a lot more.

But that's what I'm sticking with. Very good. Dave, the man with the greatest patience in the room right now, what are you seeing for these New England Patriots based on where they've been and where you think they can possibly go? Well, the biggest issue is I agree know, I, I grew with Scott. I think there'll be, I have a better offensive product out there. I think they always have a good defensive product. I think they were abysmal and special teams last year,

which made a big deal. You talk about accountability, Cam Akard shouldn't have a job. Maybe they should have put a judge there and just straighten that out. But anyway, that's,. But anyway, there's my inner Scott coming out. But as far as the team goes, I mean, Vegas has them over under of seven and a half. I do see them as over. I like Bob's optimism. And I think we all want them to, we want to be wrong. We'd love to see them be 14 and two, but realistically speaking, I will say there'll be over that seven and a half. Do I think they're,

they're going to be a playoff team or, or, or make any moves in the playoffs? I don't. And a lot of that has to do with really the strength of schedule. I mean, they're that they've got the third, I don't want to say worst strength of schedule. You mean, they're that they've got the third, I don't want to say worst strength of schedule. You know, the, the combined teams that they're playing had a last year of 549 winning percentage. You know, that that's tough. They're in a tough division. You know, I think the Brady game isn't, it's going to be great for the fans. I don't think it's going to be great for the team. You know, let me me let me throw a caveat brady might be playing he could be starting for the raiders so that that that could that could uh that could come to fruition that has been debunked there are rules that you can't be a um owner or in a player so

you would have to um file paperwork too so, because that would have been kind of cool. But no, so I wish, you know, I obviously want them to win, but I have to be realistic. You know, I think they'll have closer games. I think they'll have some solid things. I think they will grow as a team, but I just don't see them being a playoff team or, you know, being much over 500.

Folks, definitely check them out on Untold Patriot Stories. It is a phenomenal podcast and the wisdom and counsel that they lent tonight, folks, doesn't just come from a fan's perspective. It also comes from a historical perspective as well. Three of the great Patriot minds in the business grace the airwaves tonight here on Locked On Patriots, and we are thrilled to have them. And we can't wait to have you guys back. Before I let you go, gentlemen, please, let's go around the room one more time.

Let everyone know, all of our listeners, where they can find you, your great work, and anything you'd like us to know about Untold Patriot Stories or any project you currently have going on right now. Bob, let's start with you. Yeah, so our subtitle for Untold Patriot Story is Overcoming Obstacles and Adversity to Become Better People. So a lot of the stories that we have with not only players and coaches and media people is getting some little bit of wisdom, a little bit of something to get you through maybe a stress or an anxiety or something that you might have gone through or going through. And if you can listen to, you know, Talibet Taken said, show up.

You know, when you're participating, show up. Be there spiritually, mentally, physically, and just engage to whoever you're talking to, your son, your wife, your teacher, you know, just so little things like that. Dietrich Weiss, you know, his whole belief system and the mindset and all that kind of stuff. So that's a lot of what we want to kind of get across is that there were guys get to an elite level, but they got there because they were encouraged and supported somewhere along the way, and then they believed in themselves, and then they acted as a team player and did their job and do what they have to do.

So those are some of the lessons that we like to bring out. And, you know, some of the historical facts when we go back to 1960, although we haven't had too many players back from then, but there's a lot of history with the Boston Patriots and a lot of fans that are listening to us throughout the world. I'd like to hear some of those stories from the 70s and 80s when maybe we had one good team every 10 years. So hopefully we'll come back to that and be a playoff team. And if there's anyone out there that's interested in kind of working with that mentality and the mindset, that's kind of one of the things

that I'm doing now is doing some personal coaching and sharing some of these stories with people to kind of help them upgrade themselves. So I appreciate that little shout out for people that want to kind of relieve some of the stress and anxiety of life. Reach out to me and see if we can help you. Absolutely. So well said, Bob. And thank you. Scott, floor is yours, my friend. All right.

So the one thing I want to say is, you know, when we started this and brought Dave in, you know, that they say you're not working if you're doing something you love. And, you know, although Dave likes to pick on me because I'm negative, as being a Patriots fan and as a diehard Patriots fan as I am, we got spoiled, and it's hard to watch some of the stuff we've watched over the last couple of years when you look at what the organization was like. So it's not so much being negative as just calling it as I see it

as what's happening now. But as far as the podcast podcast if you're a patriots fan and you like to hear stuff come directly from the mouths of players or somebody in the media or you know the the amount of people we've had on i mean we've done a lot of episodes it's been in july it'll be a year believe it or not and i think we're going to be close to 60 or not even maybe even over 60 episodes. And it's truly been a lot of fun. And, you know, to hear some of the stuff that these guys say.

And I think that one of the biggest things is, and I think that we all take away from this, is when we've done these podcasts at the end of the podcast, the amount of times we've heard, you know, thank you guys for talking to me and, you know, having me on. And, you know, this is great what you're doing for these guys. And whether it's even an email or a text after the podcast for, you know, just to say, you know, I want to tell some other guys because that was just really nice, you know,

that you, that you want to talk to some of these, you know, these older players and players that haven't been around for a while and think that they're forgotten. So I think when we have fans, you know, when we do this, I don't think sometimes we realize how much of an impact we have on the lives of some of these guys that played, you know, and are suffering from CTE or have, you know, bad knees. I mean, whatever it is.

And to Bob's point, they went through some pretty intense stuff. So I think there's a lot of stuff we have out there, and we always try to get, you know, one story from each player that nobody would have known unless that player told them. And we've had some good ones, had some great guests, you know,

Bob Lobel from the media, Upton Bell, some great players. I mean, there's a whole list. So you can find us anywhere where you get your, your podcast untold Patriots stories. And I think if you take the time to listen, even from the beginning you're going to hear a lot of great stories.

And if you're a Patriots fan, you're going to enjoy them. And, you know, one of the things we try to do is get better. You know, we do a lot of things different now, just like I'm sure Mike, you know, you've done. We do a lot of things different from when we first started the podcast, we're going to start doing some, some live podcasts sure, Mike, you know, you've done. We do a lot of things different from when we first started the podcast. We're going to start doing some live podcasts. We got, you know, all the equipment to do that. We're going to be doing something at Pearl Street Station.

And what's the date on that, Bob? June 25th. June 25th, Sunday. It's Sunday after Father's Day. So we'll do some trivia and we'll give away some stuff. So your father deserves even more on Father's Day. We're going to extend Father's Day for another week. So come on down. Yeah, Mike, if you're around, we'd love to have you

come down. That happens to be the day after my birthday, gentlemen. I would love to spend that weekend with you. So you know what? Let's do it. You can come down and have some good food at Pearl Street Station and do a live one. We're going to do some trivia and all that stuff, but we're branching out a little bit with that. But we've really enjoyed it. And we definitely appreciate somebody like you. You know, we had you on our podcast. You know, now you're having us on yours.

And, you know, how long have you been doing this, Mike? In August, it will be my fourth year as host of Locked On Patriots. And it feels like I just started the other day. It really, really has been a tremendous ride and having the opportunity to be one of one of the first guests on your pod. I believe I was one of the early ones really was truly an honor. And I was truly grateful for that. And I'm so glad that you guys had the opportunity to join me here tonight.

And Dave, I haven't forgotten about you before. It's still yours, my friend. Please let everyone know where they can find you, interact with you, and anything else you'd like our listeners here on Lockdown Patriots to know. Yeah, no, I'd love to have you on the show because that was BD before Dave. Exponentially, it's gotten better since. But I'll say it's better equipment. But anyway, no, I mean, these guys have done a good service to our podcast with what they've said so far. The only thing that I will add to that is, you know, we've had some big name people, you know, Hall of Famers like Steve Nelson, you know, big names that people would probably look down the list to go to.

What we've found is some of these guys that you may not have heard of have some of the best stories. We had a guest on Elgin Davis, who you may never have heard of, played nine games for the Patriots in the 80s. And he was just, I can't even, the right word. We had chills talking to him. Very powerful podcast. I guess that's the way to put it. A whole range of emotions. Very, very interesting man.

You know, I don't do a lot of promoting on my personal pages of it, but when we did that, I was like, please listen to this. You're going to listen to our show. Listen to Elgin Davis. You know, so they may surprise you. Some of the people that maybe you weren't as interested in at the beginning, um, that really, um, have some great things to say. And I, we try and keep it light. You know, Bob always, always tries to bring in, um, you know, some of the, the becoming

better people, you know, I've had folks, especially particularly some of the media people that we've had on that have dealt with, you know, either alcoholism or depression and things and, you know, how they personalized and, you know, just everyday people over and above them being, you know, famous for sports. Absolutely. And sometimes the greatest stories are the ones that you didn't expect to have told. And that's what you can find, folks, on Untold Patriot Stories. Again, my honor, my privilege to have been a guest, one of their guests, and each and every episode gets better than the next. Definitely check that out wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, folks, thank you all so much for continuing to make Locked On Patriots a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage and your first listen every day. On behalf of three great men, and I say that without hesitation and without qualification, Bob Heilberg, Scott Prusak, Dave Usher. I am Mike DeBate.

Thank you once again, folks. Continue to stay safe and stay well. Be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great day, everyone. We'll see you right back here tomorrow on Locked on Patriots. Go Pats.