Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Patriots Discussion with Douglas (Part I) — Discord, Social Media and Edelman’s Case for the Hall — 4/22/2021

Episode Date: April 22, 2021

The New England Patriots are always a hot topic on social media. Today, host Mike D’Abate welcomes Douglas, the gatekeeper of the Patriots Discord community and the host of the Untitled Patriots Podcast, for part I of an informative discussion. Douglas enlightens out listeners on his origins within Patriots social media and makes the definitive case for Julian Edelman to enter the Pro Football Hall of Fame.Listen to The Ultimate Mock Draft 2021 presented by Audacy and the Locked On Podcast Network. April 19th-26th. Follow the feed today!Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you.ManscapedGet 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code LOCKEDONNFL at Manscaped.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful. You are now locked into the Lockdown Patriots Podcast. It is Thursday, April 22nd, 2021, and it is time for some Patriots discourse with the gatekeeper of Patriots discord. The man they call Douglas, aka Dougie Mac, host of the Untitled Patriots podcast, is my guest here today on your daily home for news, notes, and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time

Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. Today's episode of Locked On Patriots is brought to you by RockAuto.com. Amazing selection, reliably low prices, all the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Greetings and salutations, Patriots Nation, and thank you for joining me here on this Thursday episode of the Locked On Patriots Podcast. My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Locked On Patriots Podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.

And you know that here at Locked On Patriots, we always value your feedback. So share that feedback, send it to the internet by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter at MDABATEFPC. And while you're out there doing some Thursday traveling through the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Locked On Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots. Patriots fans, a true special treat for you here today on Locked On Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots. Patriots fans, a true special treat for you here today on Locked On Patriots. The regal regulator of Patriots Reddit, the gatekeeper of Patriots Discord, and of course the host of the recently rebooted Untitled Patriots podcast, Douglas, aka Dougie Mac, joins me here today on the pod.

And those of you that know the great work that Doug does throughout Patriot social media also know that Douglas is opinionated, he's candid, and usually spot on. And today here on the pod, Douglas will enlighten us on how he became one of the most prominent voices in Patriot social media. He will also provide his insight and make his case on why Julian Edelman should be a pro football Hall of Famer. That's right, folks. Not just a surefire Patriots Hall of Famer.

Doug is convinced that Julian is a surefire Pro Football Hall of Famer. And I've got to be honest, folks. He makes a very convincing case. This is truly a conversation I enjoyed having immensely. And it was so nice that we're going to bring it to you twice. That's right. Some bonus content from my interview with Dougie Mac coming to you early Friday morning. And don't worry, folks, there is still a Friday episode planned that will help us close out

the week in style here on Locked On Patriots. But before I welcome in the regal regulator himself, I'm sure you all know by now that across the Locked On Podcast Network, the ultimate mock draft 2021 is being conducted. And this network-wide simulation, folks, is skyrocketing up the podcast charts. This has been a dream come true for all of us hosts here at Locked On, getting a chance to be their team's GM and make the selection that they feel is best for their team heading into 2021. And we all made selections based on player prowess, team needs, and who happened to

be on the board when our selection was up. As most of you know, the Patriots have the number 15 pick coming up in the 2021 NFL Draft. And in the Ultimate Mock Draft, despite my best efforts to move up, I chose to stand pat at the draft. And lo and behold, one of the Patriots' biggest needs just happened to be sitting there at number 15. For those of you who have yet to download and listen to the Ultimate Mock Draft 2021, this is a little bit of a spoiler alert, but my selection for the New England Patriots at number 15 in the Audacity Sports and Locked On Ultimate Mock Draft 2021 was quarterback Mack Jones of the University of Alabama.

And right now, some of you are cheering that pick. Others of you are throwing something at the device you're listening to, or maybe even cursing me at this point. Keep it clean, folks. It's a family show after all. But let me preface this by saying Mack sitting there at number 15 and the Patriots need a quarterback was just too much for me to pass up. I understand the knocks on him.

Mack's arm strength is average at best. I've heard a lot of you say that he's far from being the most athletic quarterback in his class, but I do have my reasons for taking Mack at number 15, and as the great Don would say, I will give you my reasons. First off, there was some talent still left on the board, including Penn State linebacker Micah Parsons, who I came very close to selecting with this pick. But again, the Patriots' needed quarterback was the deciding factor here. Mac Jones is not a passer that's going to succeed in every NFL system, but he is well

equipped to succeed in the type of system the New England Patriots run. He's not a passer that's going to make a living creating off-script plays, extending plays with his legs. He's not a dual-threat quarterback. He's not someone that's going to show a lot of mobility outside the pocket, but he has shown, even as recently as his pro day and his senior bowl practices, that he does have enough mobility to take advantage of the space he has within the pocket. And that, to me, is why he can thrive in a New England Patriots system. Jordan Reed of TheDraftNetwork.com has repeatedly said that in order for Jones to succeed in an NFL system, he has to have the three Ps surrounding him. Playmakers, play calling, and protection. And he needs it at high levels in order to see his full potential. Patriots definitely offer him

two out of three without any question. His offensive line protection will be as stout as anyone. The Patriots offense once again looks to be one of their strengths on offense, so he won't have any problem being protected. As for the play caller, even though he's had his share of struggles, and I'm not going to deny that, Josh McDaniels is still above average or better than most when it comes to that department in the NFL. That would leave playmakers, and at the end of 2020, I would have said that bringing Mac Jones here made absolutely no sense.

He would lack the depth necessary at the wide receiver position, especially at the tight end position, and even a little bit at running back to really succeed. But the Patriots have done a pretty good job in bringing in some playmakers, whether it be wide receivers Nelson Aguilar or Kendrick Bourne, or of course, the dual threat at tight end that is now Jonu Smith and Hunter Henry. With those types of playmakers, I believe that New England is a place where Mac Jones could showcase his great field awareness and his ability to make anticipatory throws. Again, not the purest athlete in the world, but he is athletic enough to move up in the

pocket when he's feeling the heat and deliver a strike on time. Folks, the best way to fit into the Patriots offense is to win pre-snap reads, make anticipatory throws, and demonstrate the ability to get the ball out on time. Mack Jones can do that, and the team that the Patriots surround him with should allow him to do that very well. That being said, if the opportunity was available for myself as Patriots GM in the Ultimate Mock Draft 2021 to move up to select a player like Justin Fields or Trey Lance, I would definitely have been interested. Mack is not a quarterback I was willing to move up for, but him being there at 15, coupled with the Patriots' need at the position, made me believe that Mack Jones is a good selection. And again, folks, don't let this spoil your enjoyment of the Ultimate Mock Draft 2021.

Definitely check it out to hear what some of the experts have to say about my pick, including my colleague, former NFL scout Matt Williamson and Andy Gresh of WEI. And although I've thrown my mock draft hat into the ring, there are still a lot of other Patriots analysts out there that have some very strong feelings on the NFL draft, one of whom is my guest today, Dougie Mack. And even though Doug's thoughts on the draft will drop tomorrow here on the pod, in just a moment, he will join me to lend a little wisdom and counsel on the Hall of Fame case of former Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman.

Doug makes his argument of hashtag Edelcanton when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Patriots fans, for eight years, my guest today has been the regal regulator of the Patriots community on Reddit, and he's also the gatekeeper of the Patriots Discord community. His passion and insight on the team is felt in all circles of Patriots Nation. He also happens to be the host of his recently rebooted Untitled Patriots podcast. And folks, it's providing our fan base with one of the best listens out there, talking to guests such as Lee Schechter, Mark Schofield,

Miguel the Pats Cat Benzon, Mike Dussault, and Nick Fitzy Stevens, just to name a few. Dougie Mac Douglas joins me today on Locked On Patriots. Welcome to the pod, bud. Been looking forward to this one for a while. That was an epic intro, Mike. Dare I say, that may have been a Hall of Fame level intro a hall of fame play right there i think you could be in maybe you need to add a little bit to your resume to make the podcasting hall of fame overall but

the patriots podcast intro hall of fame your first ballot you could be an introductory member i love that i love how you hyped me up i love how you you spoke about me like i am tom brady and you're just listing off all these accolades and i'm not just like an internet forum mod he's kind of narcissistic and has a couple thousand twitter followers you're you're just like that's right we finally got him we landed our biggest guest yet a guy who used to moderate on reddit and has 6 000 twitter followers. Although Julian Edelman follows us. And that, I'm usually joking when I talk about who follows who on Twitter, like it's important. But I am so happy that Edelman follows us.

And if he ever unfollows us, I will cry. But yeah, thank you. Thanks, Mike. It's a lot of fun to be here. And I love to be the one being interviewed for a change. Absolutely. And you know, Bud, I say every single time I bring a guest here on Locked On Patriots, I speak from the heart and I really am speaking from the heart.

I assure you the praise that I'm giving you is well deserved. And I do appreciate the Hall of Fame comment because considering your insight on the Hall of Fame, I take that as the highest compliment. I happen to agree. I am a foremost expert on the Hall of Fame. You truly are. And we're going to get into that, folks, in just a minute, because Doug has some great insight on the Hall of Fame and who should be in.

I think you can tell where we're going with this, but I'm not going to steal his thunder. But you blend a level of wisdom and counsel that I think is really one of the cornerstones of the Patriots fan base. I'm a fan of the work that you do, and I'm a fan of the podcast. And I think that you guys really, especially the Discord community and the Reddit community, add a voice to Patriots Nation that is desperately needed throughout all fan bases. And the Patriots version of it, to me, is some of the most knowledgeable

and the best in the business. That's why yours is a voice I pay attention to in Patriots Nation. But you're beyond just the voice of a fan. You bring insight to the team. You bring analysis of whether it be the roster, in-game action. When you talk, I listen, my friend. So, and believe me, I'm not alone, folks. So you have a pretty extensive following.

I know Doug liked to take a little bit of a self-deprecating jab there, but the following that he's developed, especially on Reddit, Discord, and even on Twitter, is not something to be taken lightly. So for the benefit of our listeners here on Lockdown, I have a very passionate fan base. That's it. That's good. And cult followings are always good. You know what they say? The cult following may start off a little on the, how shall we say, moderate side, but

it can grow. And when it grows, that cult following lasts for a lifetime. Let our listeners know what brought you to the business of Patriots Media and how your fandom evolved into parlaying that to being a voice within the nation itself. I'm going to answer that, but sorry to bogard you. I just have to say something i was gonna say that i forgot to mike i am so happy to be on rayfeon presents locked on patriots presented by raid shadow legends at bet online.ag fields i i am so happy to be here on this show i hope hope they're paying you. I really hope they are. I hope the whole Locked On cabal that you're part of, that empire, I hope they're giving you a cut.

Because with all the ads you read, like, you've probably sent the owner of the Locked On Network's kids to college already. Well, we are a part of a great network here on Locked On. They do. They take care of us well. It is a network I'm very proud to be a part of a great network here on Locked On. They do. They take care of us well. It is a network I'm very proud to be a part of. They say that when you have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to ads and when it comes to sponsors, that's a good thing. So I count my blessings when it comes to that. I appreciate the jab.

It is. It's funny. But no, Locked On takes care of us very well. I have no complaints on my end. I love being the host of this cast. Okay. Slug, as they're paying you, then I'm fine. I'm fine with all the ads.

And it's worth listening to 10 minutes of ads when you get to listen to such fantastic guests like myself, right? It's well worth it. Definitely. And I bet BetOnline.ag is not unhappy that I am making fun of you because that just means they're going to get plugged. So go give Mike some more money, betonline.ag, okay? Betonline.ag.

All of the bets that you lose will go directly to Mike, okay? They may put a line out on this show. You never know. You always hear after the fact. So there could be. There really, really could be. I wonder what the over-under is and how many times I interrupt you.

But if I were you, I would go bang you over right now. Okay. Okay. Okay. You asked me how I got into this whole weird cabal thing I have on the internet. Okay. Well, I don't run the Reddit anymore, but I don't blame you for not knowing that because that is as of six weeks ago. And I have purposely kept it low key because if people know that I sort of resigned from running the Reddit, then I might have less clout.

So actually, I'm going to say that that's a secret just for locked on listeners. OK, don't tell anyone that I don't run the Reddit anymore. Information you find only here on Locked On listeners, okay? Don't tell anyone that I don't run the Reddit anymore. Information you find only here on Locked on Patriots, folks. Right. But that was because of, it's a long story, but I run other communities on Reddit too. And I had my fill with some of the other people who run Reddit, not on the Patriots community,

but on other parts of Reddit and Reddit staff. And just eight years of doing that unpaid with some of the frustrations I was having with them on other sections of the site, I was okay with moving on. But the reason we haven't sort of made an announcement of that and why I'm still around is that because I didn't run the Reddit single-handedly, I was kind of like the leader. But I pretty much did all the sort of stuff. Growing our empire outside of Reddit, that was all me. Like I'm the one who made the Twitter account.

I'm the one who made the Discord server. I'm the one who made the podcast and others have helped, but I've really taken initiative on that. And I'm sort of the, insofar as there is a public face, although people don't know what my face looks like, but insofar as there is a public nerdy Canadian voice representing the Patriots Reddit community, it's been me. So it'd be weird if I just disappeared or if I handed all those things I created off to someone else who would abandon them. And

so I had a conversation with the other Reddit mods or editors or admins or whatever you want to call them. Sounds lame when you call it a mod because it's more than just sort of deleting forum posts. It's you're really running a platform, but, and there's a lot of creative work that goes into it, but whatever you want to call it, the people that run the Reddit, the others who run the Reddit with me, my team, so to speak, they decided, and we decided that basically the best move would just be to sort of brand it as a multi-platform community. So I'm no longer in the Reddit division of the sort of online Patriots fans community empire

we've created, which is now headquartered at an URL, patriots.fans now. Right now that just goes to the Discord, but there's going to be more there soon. But we sort of decided that we're going to have a Patriots fan empire. So you can go to discord.gg slash Patriots.

You can follow us on Twitter at Patriots.fans. We changed our handle this morning at Patriots.fans with dot spelled out, just like there's Patriots.com. And if you want, you can still go to the Reddit and there's the podcast. And we just made an Instagram this morning too. So there's a lot happening this off season in terms of, you know, the Patriots Reddit community sort of being the cocoon uh out of which a beautiful butterfly of a powerful Reddit empire super

butterfly like Mothra from Godzilla or whatever like that's going to to take over Patriots Nation if that if that all makes sense so yeah it's been a lot of fun to That makes sense to me. In terms of how I got started, I mean, I'm way too online, as you know, or as anyone who's familiar with me knows, as you definitely know, Mike. And I have a lot of audacity and maybe sometimes arrogance or narcissism, although maybe I should work on that. But I'm bold. I know how to ask for things. And I used Reddit not before it was big, but before it was as big as it is now, especially the sports Reddits. And basically back in 2012, okay, Reddit had, well, I became a moderator of the news community first. And that was a whole

story. So that really helped. And that was kind of a similar thing where I was just sort of bold enough to ask the right person at the right time, but that gave me some credibility that made it easier to join the Patriots community. So in 2012, I started making game threads on the Patriots community. This is before the Patriots community or any of the team communities really had any activity. Like there was like a post every week or two and like a few thousand

subscribers. It was our NFL was where people were at. So, but in 2012, I thought, you know, we should have our own game threads other than the NFL game threads, just for Pat's fans, maybe more of a low key conversation, which it stopped being years ago, but at the time it was pretty low key and friendly

because it was only a few dozen comments per thread. So I started making game threads and that was before I actually ran the community. And I put official game day thread in the titles and put tons of information in the titles and made the titles look all official and clean and important looking. And that made everyone go to them. And people started to think that I ran it, even though I didn't, because I just made the titles look fancy. And then for the 2013 season, I was like, hey, I'm the GameThread guy. Hey, I run the news community.

So can I help with you guys on the Patriots community? And then the anonymous volunteers added me to the list of anonymous volunteers, because I was the GameThread guy. And I just put in more work than them, which isn't that hard because it's something you do for free and people usually get tired of it. I got tired of it after eight years, eight and a half years. They got tired of it sooner than that, but everyone does eventually. So I just threw a mix of audacity and being too online and having time to waste and getting in early. I, you know, became the, not just the mod, but also sort of like the mascot of the Patriots Reddit community. And then in 2016, I made a Twitter account and around the

same time in 2016, I had the brilliant, original, innovative idea to make a Patriots podcast. Because I don't think, I don't think there had actually ever been a Patriots podcast before that one. Because I know the world is very short on Patriots podcasts, but obviously I'm being facetious, but yeah. And Tim Knopf, who's another sort of public figure, digital public figure on the Patriots community. We hosted that together for a season. That was a lot of fun. Eventually she got tired of that. Um, so I found someone named Ben, who's not really a very influential internet person, but is really cool and was a lot of fun to host that with. Back in 2017, early 2018, he's a high school football coach, knows a lot about football, very funny. We had good banter. People get tired of them before me because unless you're a really big deal or do amazing intros and have 10 minutes of ads like you, it's hard to make a lot of money off of it.

So they get tired of it. But I guess I just love the Patriots and love internet validation so much that I don't get tired of it as quickly as other people. So I try to keep it going. Now, the pod actually did stop for a couple years and it was called the official our patriots podcast at the time and then we rebooted it a month or two ago and i decided to go with the name untitled patriots podcast because i couldn't think of a name so we may like you know patriots football podcast yeah it's a lot of fun to do the podcast to have it rebooted again it gets between the the first five episodes of the reboot have had between 300 and 500 downloads which is not that much but for a

podcast or for just an amateur podcast in general that's probably in the top like five percent or two percent of all of them considering how many podcasts there are and how few people listen to most of them and how short-lived most of them are so i'm i'm happy about that i know i'm not actually a public figure, like I role play as sometimes, but it's fun to just sort of maybe be a Patriots fan online who has a lot of online Patriots fan friends. Maybe I'm the life of the party,

not a celebrity, but I'm the life of the party for some of the parties that happen online among Patriots fans. And right now, you mentioned him earlier, but it looks like the new co-host is going to be Lee Schechter, who contributes to Gridiron Heights, both in terms of jokes and voice acting, which is a hilarious web series on Bleacher Report.

He also does tons of their sort of back-end draft analysis, but he's not as much of a public figure anymore because he doesn't do that stuff under his own name much anymore. But he does a lot of their draft analysis behind the scenes. And finally need to take a breath. He was in the Patriots locker room in 2014, as we like to remind people a lot. He did report for the Patriots for a year and a half,

including the entire 2014 season for ESPN. so that's a great feather in his cap so he's a pro he's a big jay you know even if he's not much of a public figure he is an expert so it's great to have that expert because i'm an expert compared to the average fan just because i've been watching for 20 years and most of the people on our discord are like college aged and because I I'm a nerd and a geek and I don't have a life and I just spend all my time studying patron related things like I only have two or three interests and one of them is football so I've learned a thing or two over 20 years so like people on discord sometimes they'll ask me questions randomly for a conversation I'm not part of like as though they were doing a q a with an ex-coach or or uh analyst or something they'd be like doug what do you think of this thing we're talking about and that always makes me feel really cool but i am not probably not quite as much of an expert or quite as cool as the teenagers on

our discord server seem to think but that's a lot of fun and having lee there who is actually an expert to sort of balance out my takes and my fan attitude and he's also really nice and i'm sort of more sarcastic and and stuff so it's pretty good balance so it's a lot of fun and i hope that you know i don't think it's going to replace you know part of my take on top of the number one podcast sports podcast list anytime soon but i want it to be the Patriots fan podcast that people listen to. I want it to be the go-to, if that makes sense. So if we could start getting like a few thousand downloads when the season starts instead of a few hundred, that would be awesome.

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That's A-U-D-A-C-Y. The addition of Lee is definitely a great asset to that. Lee's already been a frequent guest on your pod. And folks, I'm definitely a fan. Listen to what these guys have to say. I think that's a perfect balance. And you are gaining traction in terms of a voice in this nation because you've been one of the very vocal members, dare I say, either at the top of the list or near the top of the list of advocates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame candidacy of now former Patriots receiver Julian Edelman.

Hate saying former, but he'll always be a Patriot in everyone's eyes. And Douglas, you're sort of preaching to the choir here. I do believe that Julian is a Hall of Famer. He would receive my vote if I had one, but just because he should doesn't necessarily mean that he will. And I've expressed my doubt that the voters will agree with us and those like us, but I always point to the postseason. Julian, that's where he shines. Edelman is second just to Jerry Rice in playoff catches at 118, receiving yards at 1,442. His regular season numbers, I do understand they fall a little bit below his peers. He's currently ranked 75th in career receptions, 156th in receiving yards, tied at 261.

Career regular season receptions and career regular season receiving yards. Absolutely, yes, for the regular season. Stipulation for both. Yep, absolutely. So Edelman doesn't have the Pro Bowls or the All Pros to his name, but to me what helps to balance that out. He was added to the Pro Bowl roster in January 2015, but he couldn't actually play because he had to play in the Super Bowl,

and he scored the game when he touched down in that Super Bowl. Absolutely, absolutely. And again, you know. Fact-checking you here. I see I'm even fact-checking you. See, there you go. There you go. And it works you know, I'm even fact checking you. So there you go. There you go. And it works, folks. It does. It works. And that's why, again, that's why Doug is Doug's voice is needed in this nation. And he's needed here on Locked on Patriots. Look, three times Super Bowl champion, the MVP of Super Bowl 53. Doug, for those out there that don't believe

that Julian Edelman is a Hall of Famer, please, my friend, today, help him see the light. The floor is yours. Okay. First of all, you shouldn't say you believe he's a Hall of Famer. You should say he is a Hall of Famer because morally he is one. Whether the committee will induct him, you can express doubt about that. I say that he will be inducted with certainty all the time. But that is kind of a motivational thing or a framing thing but I think it's a lot more likely than some people think. No, I'm not going to say 50-50. I am 53-47. I think he will get in, but it wouldn't shock me if the committee made the wrong choice and never added him.

But I hope that they will be better than that. I hope that we, Patriots Nation, can make them better than that. And another fact check, Mike, if you don't mind all the interruptions and fact checks. I'm used to being a host. I'm arrogant like that. Sorry. But I'm not. You said it was arguable whether I am number one on the Edelcanton campaign.

Hashtag Edelcanton. That is not debatable. I am number one. I am leading the campaign to get Edelman into the hall of fame and to make sure everyone knows he should be in the hall of fame. If there were a hall of fame for telling people on the internet that Julian Edelman should be in the hall of fame, I would be a first ballot member of that hall of fame.

They could name that hall of fame after me. So never, never doubt my ranking, my career ranking in terms of Julian Edelman hall of fame advocates. Okay. You turned me, you made a believer out of me, folks, the King, the number one. I persuaded you. Did I actually change your mind? You actually did. Yeah, you actually did. Because you know what? You look at the, first of all, you fact-checked me, which I like, because I am not infallible folks. Anyone who listens to Lockdown Patriots knows that I'm not,

and I'm not ashamed to admit it. But second of all, you look at what Doug has done on his social media accounts. The Edelcanton hashtag is brilliant. So, yeah, you've made a believer out of me just in these last few minutes, bud. But, again, I don't want to steal your thunder. I got someone to do a jersey swap of him wearing a gold jacket. I have him posting everywhere. I got part of my take to retweet it, so that was cool.

So to actually answer your question, which I like to do after I monologue for a few minutes, my answer to the people who don't think he's a Hall of Famer, what do I have to say to them? Put down your Game Boy. Put down your Nintendo DS. Stop playing World of Warcraft. Stop playing League of Legends.

Stop playing Pokemon. He's not a League of Legends hero. He's not an RPG character. He's not a Pokemon. You can't just go to Wikipedia or Pro Football Reference or whatever the nerd equivalent of those is for football players. I mean, for actual video game characters, you know, what was it? I play, I was a nerd when I was a teenager, by the way. So I, I'm, this is my firsthand experience.

I'm a whistleblower for, for nerds. I mean, I still, I'm a nerd, but I was a gamer when I was a teenager. It was MMO champion that, that it took me a second to remember the browser, but 10 plus years ago, I played world of Warcraft. Okay. We would go to MMO champion to look up the updates and see the new stats the warrior stats paladin stats mage stats the whatever thing stats okay and that is like a very specific measurable thing for a video game character digital online where the developers have all these exact numbers they

can input okay julian edelman is not a wow character or league of legends zero or pokemon he's not even a madden character or at least not primarily a madden character he isn't madden unlike bill balchek who should be a madden but anyway you can't i posted that allegory of the cave meme on twitter yesterday and i don't think people found it very funny but i thought it was actually insightful i don't know if you you know the allegory of the cave, Mike, but basically what I'm saying is his career as it actually exists, as a fascinating, interesting, unique, unprecedented, heroic thing that happened in real life, a story, is not represented by those things. But we live in an age where that is what people do. That is where people go. That is how people win arguments.

Stats and accolades, things that can be looked up by browsing a player's profile on Wikipedia or Pro Football Reference or football DB or other sites like that. And they're probably not even reading his whole Wikipedia page. And I say Wikipedia, I mean, like the intro and the sidebar, counting pro bowls, counting all pros, you know, looking at volume totals with regular season volume totals. And that is not the right way to look at it. And I know these people are looking at it that way because if they didn't,

they wouldn't necessarily believe on my level of energy that he's a Hall of Famer, but they wouldn't laugh at it. But they're all laughing at it. They're all laughing. They're all saying, like, he shouldn't even sniff the Hall of Fame. If you think he should be in the Hall of Fame, you're just the most ridiculous Pats homer ever blah blah blah just you know that like have you even spent the 45 seconds googling his stats and his number of pro balls like i have douglas okay i don't know how you didn't realize this but uh most hall of fame wide receivers have way more career regular season receiving yards and pro balls and all pros

and edelman i don't know how you didn't realize that but my brain is like literally the size of a hot air balloon carrying me into the heaven of being right about everything like it's just the the the arrogantly wrong nature of these people is is so annoying and that's how i know that they're looking at it this way that's not how you look at it he's not the player that they think he is. Here's why Edelman should be in the Hall of Fame. I like to, I'll try to orient myself to the positive. He is a Hall of Fame player because he was essential to every single competitive game for an entire dynasty. He was an essential wide receiver. He was Brady's number one target for the top passing offense in the league

in that period from 2013 to 2018 overall, in which we won three Super Bowls. He was Brady's favorite receiver. Wasn't necessarily Brady's best receiver. That would be Rob Gronkowski, but he was Brady's number one most targeted, most caught, most trusted receiver for that entire period. And he won three Super Bowls and he was essential.

He didn't just win the Super Bowl MVP. He was essential to every close playoff game in that Super Bowl. Now, if you look at the Hall of Fame and why pro sports even has Hall of Fames in the first place, what the purpose of the Hall of Fame is. Philosophically, it is not to measure how many fantasy points a player has generated throughout their career total. It is not to measure how many Pro Bowls or All Pros they have. That's not the purpose. Maybe the committee looks at it that way. If they do, they shouldn't. But that's not why the Hall of Fame exists. The Hall of Fame is there to honor the history of the game for future generations when these sports first started

and people started retiring and i i'm a big hockey guy as well as canadian okay so i more obsessed with football on a day-to-day week-to-week basis now but when i was uh until i was like 2022 or so hockey was number one football was number two now kind of switched, at least in terms of the time and energy I spend because of all the Patriots community stuff I do. But I was a hockey expert, hockey obsessive as well. And if you look at the history of Pro Football Hall of Fame, the Hockey Hall of Fame, which I live within walking distance of, and I assume other professional Hall of Fames

they were created because after players first started retiring in those leagues they wanted a way to honor and archive and remember the past so whether Edelman is the Hall of Famer is really a philosophical question because by certain criteria when you look at playoff moments

and playoff volume and just being part of the history of the game, he isn't just sufficient. He far, far exceeds it. By other criteria, like the regular season volume stuff and the Pro Bowls and everything, and I'm not even saying that that stuff doesn't matter at all. By those criteria, he's not even close. So people are right. There is a grain of truth behind the haters, the Edelman deniers, as I call them. There is a grain of truth behind the haters the edelman deniers as i call them there is a grain of truth in that it would be unprecedented if he made it but you know what else mike you know what else would be unprecedented if he didn't make it if he didn't make it that

would be unprecedented so it's really a philosophical thing the only way you can look at the hall objectively is by going by precedent. But there's no precedent for a player like Edelman. There isn't. Because no one, we don't know if by the usual standards, a player with his playoff resume

and his regular season resume would make it. Because no one with his playoff resume has ever had such a weak, superficial regular season resume. So there is no precedent for him. So just because no one has ever made it looking at one set of criteria doesn't mean that he's not going to make it because he's an unprecedented case so it's just so obvious to me that he's a special case that deserves special consideration and and that is going to create a lot of arguments and a lot of debate and become a philosophical question about the hall of fame but they're dismissing it like we don't know that his volume totals are all pros or pro goals or

whatever aren't high enough like we know that it It's not about that. Give us some freaking credit before you just start condescending towards us like that. So why do I come down where I do on the philosophical question? Because that is the actual purpose of the Hall of Fame. You can go on Wikipedia and pro football reference to look up those things that these nerds want to look at first. The purpose of the Hall of Fame is for players like edelman if we're not going to add edelman or even have a serious conversation about adding edelman then there's no reason to have the hall of fame you could just look up the career leaders in a certain stat in books or on the internet so it's stupid if he doesn't get in and i think he has a better chance than people think because the argument about him getting in is not going to stop because he's such an unprecedented case.

So I truly think that if you were to poll the voters now, he wouldn't even be close. I think a lot of them are going to change their mind over the years because he's going to force them to change the usual heuristics that they use to decide who makes the Hall of Fame, if that makes sense. Are you following me, Mike? Absolutely. No, I am 100% following you. And look, bottom line, Gary Myers, longtime NFL writer, Doug, I'm sure you're familiar with his work, had a comment that he made just days ago. And I happen to agree exactly with where he is. Look, bottom line, the game is all about winning. Julian Edelman is a winner. He's been a winner since he's put on shoulder pads right up until

the day he retired a couple of weeks ago. His biggest performances came in the biggest games. If that's not a Hall of Famer, I don't know what is. So bottom line, I do agree with where you're coming from. Yeah. Is there a shred of truth to some of the statistical arguments that are out there to some of the unprecedented type of arguments that you've laid out? Yes, there is. But there's also the other side of that. And I think that's something that doesn't get enough of a voice. And you're giving that voice. So again, buddy, that's the reason why we wanted to have you on today to be able to make your case. And I think you've made a very convincing one when it comes to Julian Edelman. And the retort to what you just said would be, well, should David Tyree be in the Hall of Fame?

Should Malcolm Smith be in the Hall of Fame? Should Joe Flacco be in the Hall of Fame? I mean, the Joe Flacco one is less stupid, but the other two are ridiculous comparisons. I mean, the Joe Flacco one is wrong, but I don't respect their intelligence less if they say it necessarily. But Malcolm Smith shouldn't have even won mvp of that super bowl first of all he shouldn't have even been defensive player of that super bowl that was like vote splitting or or just the defense was so dominant it just something weird happened there but you know cam chancellor should have been the super should have been the mvp of super

bowl 48 um they just gave it to malcolm smith because he had a defensive touchdown or something but like cam chancellor was dominating that game. Maybe there's an argument for someone else. The game was like almost a decade ago, but you know, it shouldn't have been Malcolm Smith, but let's use David Tyree, who, you know, he had the touchdown in Super Bowl 42 and the iconic play. He didn't win super bowl mvp

but that was kind of a that was an edelman super bowl performance type game from david tyree but david tyree did that once joe flacco did that four times so credit to him joe flacco in the 2012 2013 playoffs was amazing he played on a Brady-Manning-Montana level for those four games, and that is awesome. And, you know, a photo of the helmet cat should be in the Hall of Fame, and, you know, a little stat card of one of the greatest playoffs runs ever

for a quarterback from Joe Facco should be there. But you're comparing one game... Well, for Malcolm Smith, it's like half a game. Like, he wasn't even the Super Bowl MVP that's a dumb comparison um you're comparing like uh one play basically from Malcolm Smith he he was given it on behalf of the whole defense because he had a touchdown um to one game from David Tyree. Classic game, classic performance there. I think Justin Tuck should have been the MVP, not Eli or Tyree, but regardless,

that was a classic great performance. So that's a little bit higher than the Malcolm Smith comparison, but still it's only one game. Joe Flacco, that was one playoff run. Okay. If Joe Flacco had done what Joe Flacco did three times, and was second all time in playoff passing yards to Brady

and had a couple other really good playoff runs in which he didn't win the Super Bowl but was still essential to the Ravens who were in the playoffs every year so he got that those second all-time numbers to Brady he wouldn't be a lead in the regular season necessarily but he would be a Hall of Fame player because that would be a Hall of fame career so that's the thing is there's lots of players there's like the hall of fame is is not just about the story of the game or moments it's about players who did special things a lot over and over again so like why is dan fouts in the hall of fame despite not doing ever doing anything in the playoffs well because he did special things in regular season and he did it multiple times should dan fouts be in the hall of fame sure as hell shouldn't anything in the playoffs. Well, because he did special things in regular season, and he did it multiple times. Should Dan Fouts be in the Hall of Fame?

Sure as hell shouldn't be in the Broadcasting Hall of Fame, that's for sure. But the Pro Football Hall of Fame, yeah, that's fine. Like, I'm not a... I'm really... People assume that if I think Edelman's a Hall of Famer so strongly that I must be a Welka's a cheetah. Count the rings.

I don't care about no stats like I'm not that guy I think they both matter and if you do special things the fact that all the special things you did were only confined to one or the other

should not limit you I would much rather have someone who was really great in the playoffs and had several amazing playoff runs or someone who won a bunch of MVPs but didn't ever win a Super Bowl, I would rather have someone like that honored by the Hall of Fame than someone like, I don't know, Frank Gore, or who wasn't really special or part of the story in either part of the season but just played a long time.

And that's why the Eli comparison with Edelman I kind of have mixed feelings on because Eli does deserve credit for those, for those two runs, especially the 2011 one. But he, the, the reason people have Eli ahead of Edelman is that he has the volume stats,

but he only has the volume stats because he played for so long and because of the era he played in. So that doesn't really do anything for me. No. And I completely understand where you're coming from. And like I said, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to Edelman's Hall of Fame case and whether or not he belongs in. I am a firm believer that he is in. This is a movement now. I'm going to make a Twitter list of Hall of Fame voters. And Doug is spearheading this, folks. Believe me when I tell you, he is spearheading it. And he's already making a lot of

waves. And I support it. You know you've got a like-minded and sympathetic ear to ear, and whatever we can do to help you further that cause to get Julian Edelman in his rightful place in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, we'll do it right here on Locked On Patriots. On Thursdays, which today happens to be at 7.45 p.m. Eastern, so a few hours from now, we're going to do our weekly radio show. Now, the weekly radio show is not as popular as a podcast. It usually only has like a dozen to two dozen people.

But I'm hoping to change that for this one and the next post-draft one. And those will probably be the last three. But it's a lot of fun. You should join us. You should call in. It's a great little chat, fan-fueled digital radio show. And maybe if we get enough people, we'll keep doing it. But if we don't, then there's only going to be two or three left, and you should definitely make this one because it's one of the last ones. It's a once

in a lifetime opportunity, people. So if you're downloading this on Thursday before 8 or 9 p.m., go rush to discord.gg slash patriots or patriots.fans so that you can listen to the radio show or call in or participate in the live chat as we continue to buy into this unnecessary media stuff noise but with other pages fans do that and and you will also be able to you know just learn about all the other stuff we do so just remember that julian edelman is a future member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio. And remember to go to Patriots.fans and go Pats. Thanks, Mike.

Patriots fans, once again, be sure to check out Doug's Discord at 745 tonight. The link to the feed can be found on his Twitter handle at Patriots.fans. And of course, don't miss part two of our conversation tomorrow here on the pod, where Doug will bring you his thoughts on the draft industrial complex and what the Patriots might have in store for us one week from today. Last but certainly not least, don't forget that we will still close the week in style here on Locked On Patriots with Alex Barth of 98.5 The Sports Hub

joining me for a Friday discussion you will not want to miss. So to ensure that you do not miss a single second of the action, download and follow the Locked On Patriots podcast on platforms such as the Odyssey app, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Just make sure that you are staying locked into Locked On Patriots. Once again, my name is Mike DeBate. I thank Dougie Mac for his time, his insight, and his appearance on today's pod. But most of all, I thank you so much for continuing to make Locked On Patriots a daily part of

your New England Patriots coverage. Until next time, Pats Nation, stay safe, stay well, always be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great day, everyone.