Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Patriots’ Secondary: Stunning PFF Ranking | Offensive Pre-Camp Questions

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Pat secondary gets its tires pumped by a respected outlet. That's where we start on this episode of Locked On Patriots. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcasts network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I am your host, Nick Cattles, born and raised in New England, also host of the Everything Pats podcast, cohost of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast

Starting point is 00:00:33 with Nick Cattles, and a Sports Talk Show host veteran. On today's episode, Josh McDaniels has been tasked to improve this offense, but we've got three questions that need to be answered during this training camp and Speaking of training camp will also take a look at the defensive line depth chart But first the secondary gets major pub We appreciate you joining the show making us your first listening for being an everyday or the lockdown Patriots Podcast is a proud part of the lockdown podcast Podcast Network, your team every day. And of course, starting with yesterday's episode,

Starting point is 00:01:07 we are now going five days a week, Monday through Friday, every single week, getting you ready for a training camp in just over a week. And then we get into joint practices pre-season. And then finally in September, as we know, they kick it off and we watch football that actually counts. Today's episode is brought to by game time. Download the game time app, create an account and use code locked on NFL for $20 off your first purchase the Patriots secondary, lots of ingredients for a top NFL unit. At least that's

Starting point is 00:01:40 how I feel. And I felt even better about that opinion when I read pro football focus recently because pro football focus agrees with my Evaluation here's what PFF wrote and they ranked every single NFL teams Secondary ahead of 2025 and this was written by John Costco and John Costco Has the Patriots as the fifth best secondary in football heading into 2025. The fifth best, a top five secondary in the league according to PFF. Here's what Costco wrote in part, budding star Christian Gonzalez leads the group after missing most of his rookie season in 2023. His 78.2 coverage grade last season was outstanding for

Starting point is 00:02:28 a de facto rookie year. And the Patriots added Carlton Davis in the off season to bolster the cornerback position. And of course, Gonzo feels like a given, at least to me he does. Coming off of the second team, all pro season in 2024. While the rest of the defense was an absolute shambles, the secondary was a debacle. It was just a complete mess on that side of the football and Gonzalez barely playing a month of NFL football going into last year ends up getting on the

Starting point is 00:03:03 second team, all pro, I I mean we're talking about somebody who did not play a ton of football at that level jumped right in in the middle of a disaster and still put together a very very good season. It feels like Christian Gonzalez is a given if he stays healthy absolute stud. That's his potential. That's the projection of stud. But let's discuss the other pieces because that's what's going to matter. And we start with Carlton Davis. Davis is the answer to cornerback number two. That's been a question over the past few years for this team, but it really looks like as we get ready for this season that Davis is as solid as

Starting point is 00:03:45 you can get at that position outside cornerback to opposite of Gonzalez. He doesn't have to be in a lockdown kind of guy. He's just got to be a good football player. And that's exactly what Davis has been throughout his NFL career. And the Patriots are getting Davis after an impressive 2024 pro football focus heading into this season actually ranks Davis as a top 20 cornerback they have him 18th overall in the league and here's what they wrote Davis is coming off the second highest graded season of his career so last year pro football focus tells us Davis had his second best season

Starting point is 00:04:27 in the league. Although Davis's 2024 campaign was cut short due to injury, his PFF advanced coverage grade across the past three seasons ranks 10th among cornerbacks. Christian Gonzalez, second team All-Pro, opposite of him, Carlton Davis, who has been a top 10 advanced coverage guy according to PFF. A 1-2 combination that we haven't seen in quite a while. I would argue a 1-2 combination that we haven't seen since Daryl Rivas and Brandon Browner. Now maybe you can talk about Stephon Gilmore and some of the years that he gave this team, certainly he's part of the conversation. But this

Starting point is 00:05:12 cornerback one and two Gonzalez and Davis, there's really no reason if they're on the field and they're healthy, there's no reason why they should not be one of the best cornerback tandems and football. Davis did a lot of that work that pro football focus is talking about. He did a lot of that work as cornerback one. Now he's dealing with wide receiver assignment too. I'm not gonna say it's light work, but it should certainly be easier work for Davis having to cover the opposition's number two and not the number one.

Starting point is 00:05:44 And by the way, if you're wondering about Davis being a one trick pony, he is not. PFF had him ranked in the top 30 amongst cornerbacks in run defense grade. So he's also done a great job against the run. So Davis along with Gonzo, you feel really good. Then we get to safety and Kyle Dugger, Jibril Peppers, they have the resumes. We're gonna stick with PFF to keep this consistent. And PFF, if you go back to right before the 2024 season, PFF had Kyle Dugger as a top 10 safety.

Starting point is 00:06:20 Here's what they wrote at the time. He was ranked specifically at number nine. Dugger played a career-high 1116 snaps in 2023. It was his lowest graded season due to some coverage struggles He earned a career-low 50 coverage grade after earning 73 plus marks in back-to-back seasons now, what does that tell me a guy goes from a 73 plus mark and back-to-back seasons When you look at pro football focuses grading system and coverage, but then all of a sudden last year, he falls to a 50 coverage grade. I mean, that is off a cliff. It's not like he's 35 years old. That screams to me coaching issues and injury issues.

Starting point is 00:07:00 But let's go back to Duggar before the 24th season and PFF wrote Duggar somewhat made up for it with a career high 79.6 run defense grade. So just like Carlton Davis, Duggar great against the run when you go back the last couple years. Now hopefully Duggar is healthy. We know that the injury caused all sorts of issues. High ankle sprain, needed tightrope surgery once the season was over, was really not anything like himself after the first couple of weeks and was playing on for all intents and purposes one leg. I would also throw this in. Duggar received at least one vote as a top 10

Starting point is 00:07:40 safety in Jeremy Fowler's survey of executives, coaches and scouts at ESPN. So there are still people in the league that feel like Duggar is a quality safety. Then you get to Peppers. Duggar was ranked ninth going into last year at safety. Peppers was ranked 11th going into last year at safety. And here's what PFF wrote about Peppers. Peppers completely revived his career over the past two seasons in New England. His 91.6 run defense grade with the Patriots ranked second among safeties behind only Antoine

Starting point is 00:08:12 Winfield Jr. while his 83.1 coverage grade over the past two years ranks 12th. Peppers has been one of the better safeties in football over the past two or three years, at least heading into 2024. Then he had issues. Off the field issues. Off the field issues got in the way of his season in 2024. But PFF, they love him. Peppers has quietly put together a quality career, they write, earning overall grades above 82.3 and each of the past two seasons. Peppers fit with the Mike Grable, Terrell Williams defense and their mentality of violence and physicality it is perfect and you hope that his personal stuff is behind him he's ready to focus on football and he's going to

Starting point is 00:09:00 be motivated because the Patriots actually have an out on his contract after this season is over. So if Peppers doesn't play well they can easily cut him. So that's going to be a motivating factor for Jabril Peppers. And then you look at some of the other guys you've got Craig Woodson has shown great potential during OTAs and minicamp fourth round draft pick. Patriots obviously feel great about him, picked him, has looked good so far, and don't sleep on Del Pettis. Pro Football Focus wrote this about Pettis, he looks like an undrafted gem, excelling in PFF's advanced coverage metrics and posting a 73.9 overall grade as a rookie, and we haven't even talked about Marcus Epps who might just end up being training camp insurance at this point.

Starting point is 00:09:48 Gonzalez Davis, Duggar, Peppers, Woodson, Pettis. Secondary's deep, secondary's talented. Now there are questions will Kyle Duggar play more in the box closer to the line of scrimmage? Will Pepper's physicality catch up with him since he's going to turn 30 in October? And can you really bank on the young guys like Woodson and Pettis to help you if you lose one or multiple of your top guys? If you lose Duggar and Peppers or Duggar slash Peppers, one of those two. Can you really bank on Wood's in in Pettis? But it seems to me that pro football focus feels as good as I do about this secondary.

Starting point is 00:10:31 If they're healthy, they should be one of the better units in football and PFF says they are fifth in the league. Three training camp questions about the Josh McDaniels offense that need to be answered next as we continue with today's episode of lockdown Patriots, part of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. You know, we've all been there logging on early and waiting forever for concert tickets to go on sale only to lose your spot for a show. You've been dying to see.

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Starting point is 00:11:46 first purchase terms apply again create an account and redeem code lock edon nfl for 20 off download the game time app today last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed the offense needs to be better than it's been. Captain obvious just walked into this room. Yes, the offense needs to be better. It needs to be much better than we saw in 23 and 24. And you look across this roster and it feels like the talent has been upgraded. But that does not mean we don't have questions. We certainly have questions.

Starting point is 00:12:23 We're just over one week away from training camp and we got to see what's going on and we got to see if this team, this offense can answer three specific questions that I have for them. The number one question to me is can they throw the football downfield? Can Josh McDaniels get this offense to be vertical? Ted Wynn of the Athletic wrote about McDaniels in the offense going back several weeks ago. And here's what he wrote in part, in most of McDaniels career as a play caller, the Patriots didn't

Starting point is 00:12:54 throw the ball down field a ton, but focused on a quick to intermediate passing game. However, McDaniels has shown the ability to adapt his philosophy to suit the talent. For example, Nguyen writes, when the Patriots acquired Randy Moss in 2007, Brady had the highest average air yards per attempt of his career at 9.42. As the Raiders head coach, McDaniels acquires Devante Adams, Derek Carr ends up having the highest AY slash A average air yards per attempt at 9.2 of his career. Nguyen writes, I imagine McDaniels will want to call a more vertical offense for me to take advantage of his arm talent. But to do that, someone has to step up as a consistent deep threat.

Starting point is 00:13:41 And that's what I'm wondering. I truly believe McDaniels will call vertical passes. I truly believe that McDaniels will want to lean in on the arm strength of Drake May. But it doesn't really matter what McDaniels wants because he could want to do that. But if this team is incapable of executing it, he can't just keep calling it and banging his head up against the wall. So will the Patriots be able to find somebody who can get downfield and make catches downfield? K. Sean Booty went downfield a bunch last year. It wasn't very successful.

Starting point is 00:14:22 Everybody will remember the Houston Texans touchdown. Aside from that, it was a bunch of Mrs. Downfield, the booty. So was there somebody? You might look at Stefan Diggs. Well, Diggs played mostly in the slot last year for the Texans. And I think that's what he's going to end up doing for the Patriots this year. Maybe I end up being wrong.

Starting point is 00:14:41 I'm sure he'll split outside from time to time. But Diggs is going to be all over the place. And, and I think he's going to be in the slot a decent amount. He's also 31 years old. He's also coming off ACL surgery. So can you really bank on digs being an explosive downfield guy? I think at this point, he's more intermediate, he's more slot than he would be outside guy. more intermediate. He's more slot than he would be outside guy. Then you look at Mac Collins. Mac Collins is certainly an option, but he is not a consistent force within an offense. He does a good job. He does a good job in the red zone, but I don't think you walk into this season saying, Oh, well, Mac Collins is going to be your outside threat

Starting point is 00:15:21 for 17 games. Talked about booty, we know that Pop Douglas is somebody that has moved to the outside during OTAs and minicamp, but that might be an experiment, not necessarily something that we see week to week to week to week. McDaniels might love the idea of sprinkling in some Pop Douglas as an outside receiver, but I don't think he's going to devote himself to the idea, and I don't think he's going to devote himself to the idea. And I don't think you're going to see Pop Douglas X receiver for this Patriots offense. Kendrick Bourne, certainly a possibility. You wonder how they're going to utilize him because a lot of his skills echo the skills of Stefan Diggs.

Starting point is 00:16:00 They can both move across the line of scrimmage. So I don't know how much Bourne is going to be able to play on the outside, maybe a decent amount. And of course, the Patriots drafted Kyle Williams for I think this specific reason, Drake May's arm strength, the inability last year to get downfield, you look at what Williams does, you bring them in and you hope that he can find it. Now, I'm optimistic about Kyle Williams, but I'm also a realist when I know the track record of these receivers in New England, the recent draft picks at that position have not worked out. So I'm

Starting point is 00:16:36 going to be patient with Kyle Williams. I'm not walking in expecting Kyle Williams to be an impact player in month one. If he is fantastic, great news. It exceeds my early expectations, but that's what I don't want to do. I don't want to get too high of expectations for Kyle Williams for the inevitable letdown. I've done that before. We've played that game before. So you've got to be patient with Kyle Williams.

Starting point is 00:17:03 Is there going to be an option that can consistently get downfield and make plays for Drake May because it needs to be a part of this offense. McDaniels will make it a part of the offense if he can find that guy. And then you think it's not only about the receivers in that equation, the offensive line. That's my second question. Will the offensive line in their pass protection allow for the Patriots to throw the football downfield? Will they give May time? You look at last year, they didn't. Now, I expect the offensive line to be better this season

Starting point is 00:17:38 than last season. Frankly, you can't get much worse. But Ben Solak of ESPN wrote over the past couple of months about the O line last year. Here's what he wrote in part. Drake may had without question the worst O line of the rookie quarterbacks, and I would wager the worst O line of any quarterback from week six on last year. Drake may had more quick pressures, which is under two and a half seconds than any passer save for Joe

Starting point is 00:18:05 Burrow and Burrow had 124 more drop backs. Drake May's overall pressure rate of 37.3% was exceeded only by Deshaun Watson. But as Solak writes, it was not the product of extended drop backs like you might see from Watson. May got the ball out faster than the league average passer. So Alex van Pelt tried to get the ball out of Drake May's hands quickly. Drake May did get the football out of his hands quickly more often than not. But even with that, he was still getting an absurd amount of pressure on him. 37.3%. It's crazy. And if you get close to those

Starting point is 00:18:48 numbers in 2025, you're simply not going to have the time to throw the football downfield, which will be a problem. Now, Josh McDaniels can do some things to help that. And I think he will. I think you'll see him move the pocket more than Alex van Pelt did. Hopefully we see some pre snap motion that will confuse the defense and buy some extra time for May. But ultimately it comes down to the beef in front. Is this offensive line going to be able to protect your quarterback? Are they going to be able to allow him to sit in that pocket for more than two and a half seconds, get to three seconds, hey, sometimes three and a half seconds and get that football downfield. The final question I have and this is going to be a focus during training camp, will May trust anyone consistently other

Starting point is 00:19:37 than Hunter Henry? Now Hunter Henry was the guy last year. Ted Nynn of the Athletic wrote, last season Henry was targeted on 23.4% of the Patriots' third down passes, ranking fourth among tight ends, right below Travis Kelsey. It was clear May's comfort level with Henry far exceeded his comfort level with any other receiver. That can't happen in 2025. May has to be comfortable with more people than Hunter Henry. I don't know if

Starting point is 00:20:06 it's going to be Diggs. I don't know if it's going to be Pop. I don't know if it's going to be Bourne. I don't know if it's going to be Kyle Williams. I don't know if it's going to be Trevion Henderson. Shoot, we'll even throw Austin Hooper into the mix. I don't know who it's going to be and I don't care who it's going to be. I just want it to be somebody other than Hunter Henry. Henry's fine, but give me two or three guys that this quarterback can trust and feels comfortable enough to throw the football to in big moments because you're way too easy to defend if you're always looking at the same guy. A position group loaded with potential, but also loaded with questions. That's coming up next on today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast

Starting point is 00:20:50 Network, your team every day. As we get ready for training camp, let's do a positional breakdown here of the defensive line. Lots of potential, lots of potential on this D line, but also I think a fair number of questions that have to be answered over the next month and a half or so before we get ready for real football. Now don't get it twisted. There is an established hierarchy within this defensive line.

Starting point is 00:21:24 We know who's going to start. I would be shocked if week one given health, I'd be shocked if we don't see Keon White, Christian Barmore, Milton Williams and Harold Landry starting on that defensive line. And when you think about those four individuals, you have a lot of potential. We know White athletically and physically is just really a freak. He has all the tools from a physical standpoint. He could have massive impact. He had massive impact for stretches last year, but that's the key thing, stretches. But Keyon White's got that potential.

Starting point is 00:22:07 Barmore, if he's healthy, he could be one of the best interior defensive linemen in football. Milton Williams, you can check out my Everything Pats podcast. I did on him yesterday. Some people wondering that the Patriots overrate Milton Williams during free agency.

Starting point is 00:22:25 I'm not too worried about it, but there are questions and we'll get to some of them in a little bit. But if you want a focused dialed in podcast on Milton Williams, specifically check out everything pats on my youtube channel harold landry. We know that he's been a headache for quarterbacks for a number of years in Tennessee. And this is a fun staff. I mean, it's a really fun staff. Vrabel, his work with Jadavian Clowney down in Houston. Terrell Williams, one of the best defensive line coaches in all of football for a number of years before becoming the defensive coordinator in New England.

Starting point is 00:23:02 Clint McMillan, interesting guy, defensive line coach. He won a BCS championship with Florida back in 2006. He's had experience in Tennessee with Williams, with Vrabel, Vrabel and Williams believe that McMillan is the answer. Mike Smith has a really good reputation as an outside linebackers, pass rush specialist coach. Spent time in

Starting point is 00:23:25 Green Bay, Minnesota, Kansas City, the New York Jets bunch of really good coaching staffs mentored him. So former NFL player. So this staff is fun. This staff is experienced. This staff has a good if not great reputation. And then you've got potential with all the four guys white, bar more Williams and Landry. But depth is going to be crucial. Because there are some questions, right? I just mentioned, he on white, and his inconsistencies. He came out fantastic in 2024, shot out of a cannon for the first three or four weeks. And then we saw some inconsistency and some decline as the season went on, played less

Starting point is 00:24:12 snaps. We don't know if it was a coaching issue between the player and the coaches. Obviously, White came out a few weeks ago and said that he feels like he finally has a coach. I think that speaks volumes of how he felt regarding the 2024 staff, but that is water under the bridge. It's in the rear view mirror. It's time to look forward. Can Keon White be consistent enough to play a bunch of snaps? How about Christian Balmores health? Now he's got a clean bill of health by all accounts,

Starting point is 00:24:44 started day one OTAs. He's been out there. He looks like he's got a clean bill of health by all accounts. Started day one OTAs. He's been out there. He looks like he's in the best shape of his career, but a year removed from the blood clot issues. How much is he going to play? How much do the Patriots expect him to play? We'll have to wait and see. Milton Williams in Philadelphia played less than 50% of the snaps. If he plays much more than that, he still might only play 65, 70, 75% of the snaps, if that. And Harold Landry is 29 years old. So depth is going to be crucial for this defensive line. I feel really good about the top four. I feel really good about that potential. But I also understand that there are reasons to believe

Starting point is 00:25:33 even if they do play well, they might not be playing as many snaps as some other starting defensive linemen. And that brings into question some of the other guys the Patriots have on this step chart Caleb on chase on is a fascinating fascinating player first round pick years ago for Jacksonville

Starting point is 00:25:55 Never really panned out went to Vegas last year Ended up having career highs in tackles tackles for loss and sacks. And as the season went on, Chase on seemingly got more comfortable. Produced more and looked like he started to at least scrape, scrape at that potential that made him a first round pick. Does he carry that momentum into 2025?

Starting point is 00:26:25 Does this coaching staff get even more from Chase On than the Raiders staff did? So we'll see. We'll see how much of it was garbage time football with the Raiders who weren't very good. We'll see how much of it was the light going off for Chase On. Brayden Swinson regarded as a steal in the draft

Starting point is 00:26:47 for the Pats, but this is year one. Is Swenson going to be a substitutional pass rusher? Do the Patriots think he's going to be more than that? How much is he going to play early on? Is he going to be able to make an impact when given opportunities, if given opportunities early on, is he going to be able to make an impact when given opportunities if given opportunities early on? Is he going to be able to to give this team enough impact? to earn the rights

Starting point is 00:27:14 To earn the right to be Somebody who's fully in the mix. We'll see Anthony Jennings some questions about his fit with this defense Not the best pass rusher in the world. We know that Williams and Vrabel love to attack. What happens with Anthony Jennings? Is he cut? Is he traded? If he stays on the roster, how much does he play? And one of the other questions that I have, and I think it's one of the more significant questions, we talked about the secondary playing very well against the run. Davis, great against the run. Dugger, great against the run. Peppers, great against the run. But when you look the run. Dugger, great against the run. Peppers, great against the run.

Starting point is 00:27:45 But when you look at this defensive line, Milton Williams has questions about his run defense. PFF destroyed him last year with his run defense. Now Harold Landry is a much better run defender than people give him credit for, at least analytically, and maybe he backs that up again in 2025. Does Barmore have his strength fully back? How does he perform against the run?

Starting point is 00:28:07 Does Keon White show more responsibility this season than he has in the past? Kairi's Tonga is going to be your guy in the middle early on to deal with the run, but can other guys step up? Can other guys consistently defend the run? Obviously, I feel pretty good about the linebackers, but you know that defensive line, can they stop the run? It's going to be a question. It's going to be a big question as we get ready for the season. And then end of the depth chart, some names. Javari Ritzi is a guy who's on this roster right now. Does he make it? Elijah Ponder is another name? Does he make it?

Starting point is 00:28:46 Jacqueline Roy from last year. I thought he showed some flashes Does does he make the roster do any of those three guys make the roster? We'll see how all of this comes together But I like the potential and I think you are set really well in the top four with White, Barmore, Williams and Landry. I think that's an exciting foursome. I think they can get to the quarterback. I think they can make impact plays. But can they consistently do it?

Starting point is 00:29:12 Can they consistently slow down the run? And the guys behind them, Chaison, Swinson, Jennings, are you going to get more from them than you might expect? I'm excited. I'm excited about the unit on that D line, but they got to put some things together. That wraps up this edition of lockdown. Patriots, reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C radio. Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel and don't forget to hit that like button and subscribe. We've been jumping with subscribers and it's all because of you making that concerted effort to hit that like button to throw a comment in and to subscribe the lockdown NFL top 100

Starting point is 00:29:51 being released tomorrow at 10am on lockdown sports today. The NFL top 100 voted on by the NFL hosts of lockdown including yours truly. There are some stunners in this top 100. Don't miss where your favorite players were ranked subscribe to locked on sports today on YouTube Or wherever you get your podcasts. Have a great day and we will see you tomorrow

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Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Patriots’ Secondary: Stunning PFF Ranking | Offensive Pre-Camp Questions

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