Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Priority: Patriots & Brian Thomas Jr.—Why New England Should Go All In

Starting point is 00:00:00 Brian Thomas Jr. has found his name and trade rumors, and the Pats absolutely should be interested in the wide receiver. This is Lockdown Patriots. You are Locked on Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. This is happening. I am your host, Nick Cattels, born and raised in New England. Been covering this team for the past 16 years. also the co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattels, and a sports radio veteran. Welcome to Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network,

Starting point is 00:00:42 now the number one sports podcast network, your team every day. On today's show, the latest buzz regarding Christian Barmore and Stefan Diggs' future in New England. Things are starting to sound a bit pessimistic. In the second segment, the deep draft class at Edge might have taken a significant hit on Thursday at the combine. But first, B.T.J. Today's episode is brought to buy Fandul. Use your profit boost on an NBA future and get entered for your chance to win a trip to the NBA finals. Play your game with Fandul, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Brian Thomas Jr. was ranked number one on ESPN's top 15 trade candidates this week. And not only,

Starting point is 00:01:32 was BTJ ranked number one on the list. The Patriots were listed as the number one fit for his services. Dan Graziano at ESPN wrote the following. Thomas struggled enough throughout his second season that the team needed to trade for Jacobi Myers at the deadline, then signed him to a long-term deal. The Jaguars also got an impressive season out of Parker, Washington. And while the new plan for Travis Hunter might be to focus on the cornerback position,

Starting point is 00:02:00 Jacksonville still expects him. to contribute something as a wide receiver. There are teams monitoring the Brian Thomas Jr. situation. Then Andrew Filiponi from Pittsburgh Radio, he actually posted on Thursday, he had a source that told him the Pittsburgh Steelers have been in talks with the Jaguars about Brian Thomas Jr.

Starting point is 00:02:26 The two teams discussed a deal at last year's trade deadline. So according to Andrew, Drew Philipponi, BTJ is available. And as Dan Grasiano wrote ESPN, that should not be too surprising given what happened this past season in Jacksonville, how the season unfolded, how the Jaguars got to the playoffs, how Trevor Lawrence played. And Liam Cohen, the head coach of the Jaguar, is very confident guy. I don't think he would be too shook by the idea of trading BTJ. He has to have a plan. Now, if the Patriots traded for this player, it would be a full bet on Mike Vrable,

Starting point is 00:03:07 on the coaching staff, and on the scouting department. Because when you're talking about a player who is as talented and as young as Brian Thomas Jr., who just cost Jacksonville a first round pick in 2024, when you're talking about somebody who is that talented and that young, it begs the question, what went wrong? Now, was it just a scheme thing? Was it a Liam Cohen thing? What went wrong? Evan Lazaro of Patriots.com.

Starting point is 00:03:37 I saw Evan this week say watching the film that the effort wasn't always there for Brian Thomas Jr., which again, you have to go to Mike Ravel. You got to show him the film, the good, the bad, the ugly. And you've got to talk to the head coach and say, do you think you think you can work with this guy? Do you think you can fix some of the things that we see? You got to figure out what went wrong in Jacksonville this past year. If you're the scouts, right, you go back to your college reports.

Starting point is 00:04:09 You go back to the reports you had heading into the draft. What is Brian Thomas Jr.'s makeup? Do you believe that he would fit in the culture that you're trying to create? Do you think he has a good work ethic? If so, then why was his effort shaky at times last season? What's going on, right? Can Mike Vrable connect with BTJ? Because if Vrable walks in and he says,

Starting point is 00:04:36 I feel like I can get the best from this guy, I feel like I can make a connection. I have studied his background. I've talked to people. I think that we can work with him. Then there's no doubt in my mind. There's no doubt in my mind. You pick up that phone and you call Jacksonville.

Starting point is 00:04:53 If BTJ checks out 100%, 100%, you go after this player. He's 24 years old in October. Still only 23. That's crazy. And what he did during his rookie season is not easy. 1,282 yards in 10 touchdowns in his rookie year. Just think about how much of a. difference maker he was. I mean, he is better than anyone that will be in this draft class.

Starting point is 00:05:30 He's better than Cornell Tate. He's better than all the other guys that you can name that we've talked about that you can list in this year's draft. BTJ is better than every single one of them. If BTJ walked into this draft, he would be the number one ranked receiver in this class, ahead of McCoy Lemon, ahead of all of them. He'd be the number one guy. He is six, foot three, 209 pounds. He's a bigger receiver who ran a 43340 at the combine. We're talking about great size, great straight line speed, a receiver who separates music to my ears, somebody who can consistently separate on the outside. He'll get vertical. There's no doubt. He will get vertical. He's great at tracking the football. He is a big play waiting to happen. What did Elliot Wolf say this

Starting point is 00:06:27 week to the media? We want playmakers. We're looking for playmakers. You know who's a playmaker? You know who could be a stud playmaker? B.T.J. 100% in on this player. I think he is a perfect fit. He's exactly what you've been looking for. He's that bigger guy who can get downfield, separate from defensive backs, make contested catches make the spectacular catch. I mean, you want to talk about marrying Drake May to a receiver. Drake May to BTJ, it not only has a ring to it, it makes football sense. It makes all the football sense in the world.

Starting point is 00:07:06 Now, the biggest question, of course, beyond can you work with this player? Does his background check out? Do you feel comfortable with him? Are there any character concerns that we don't know about? any red flags, we don't know. But aside from whether or not he checks out, you got to talk about the cost. What would it cost?

Starting point is 00:07:29 I mean, if you're Jacksonville and you have somebody who's not even 24 years old yet, who put the rookie season together that he put together, and yes, he wasn't nearly the same guy last year, but still, I mean, he showed he can play in the NFL and he can play at that type of high level that he played at. What's it going to cost? Well, I'm going to bring up another name that we talked about. We've talked about A.J. Brown.

Starting point is 00:07:55 Look at the trade, A.J. Brown from Tennessee to Philly. I think you're looking at a very similar trade. When Brown was traded to the Eagles, he was 24 years old. Sound familiar? So you're taught about a 24-year-old guy that year of playing. And if you remember what it cost Philly to make that trade, trade, the Eagles traded their first round pick and a third round compensatory pick, which was pick 101. So it was a first and a third, but a compensatory third, which is at the end

Starting point is 00:08:35 of the third round. So it was, I think, 18 in the first round. So it was 18 and 101. I'm calling Jacksonville, and I'm putting number 31 and 95 on the table. My first round pick number 31 in my third round pick, number 95. I think that is a fair offer, given what Brown went for to Philly years ago. Talk about a guy, again, who has proven he could play in the NFL, still young, cost-controlled contract. I'm looking at 31 and 95. Now, some might argue, some might say that Brown was tougher because you had to deal with the contract. maybe you'd have to give up more.

Starting point is 00:09:20 But that would be my offer. I'm going to the table. As long as BTJ checks out, I'm walking up to the table and I'm offering 31 and 95 to the Jaguars. This is not a guy who's going to be with you for two or three years.

Starting point is 00:09:37 You make this swing. You make awesome contact. You have a number one receiver for Drake May for the next six, seven years. It's not age. Jay Brown, hope cross your fingers, he's good for three years. It's not throwing a dart at the draft this year and hoping one of those guys

Starting point is 00:09:56 actually accelerates their development and becomes a number one. It's not banking on anybody that you have on your current roster like Kyle Williams or Kashan Booty to make a gigantic leap and prove to be a number one. You are trading for a guy who is a number one receiver at his best at the NFL level who should give you six to seven years of top-tier receiver play. You want to make Drake May the best he can be? You add a BTJ. So I would be absolutely in on this.

Starting point is 00:10:35 All right, the pads need an edge defender, if not a couple of them. In this draft class, we've talked about it, is deep at edge. Or so we thought, because after Thursday at the Combine, it might not be as deep as we had first thought. That's coming up next. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Ever wanted to experience the NBA Finals live and in person? Fandul is giving you the chance to turn that dream into reality with their MBA sweepstakes.

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Starting point is 00:12:09 I'm with you. Try the everydayer club. Add free episodes, Discord access, and more. Five bucks a month, a buck in a quarter, buck in a quarter a week. go to lockdown patriots.supercast.com or check the link in the show notes to learn more. Don't forget, we hit our 9,000 subscriber goal this week. Now we march towards 10,000 subscribers. The way we get there on YouTube is if you like this episode, click that thumbs up.

Starting point is 00:12:35 You throw a comment in. Would you be willing to give up your first and third round pick for Brian Thomas Jr. Like I would be. And don't forget to subscribe. Next goal again, 10,000 subscribers. We've got free agency coming up very, very soon. Arm-length season is back, baby, and it's better than ever. It's like a movie trailer.

Starting point is 00:12:58 Arm-length season is back, and it's better than ever. The Patriots we've talked about this. They need an edge defender. They need a couple of edge defenders at least. And the edge measurements at the combine were done on Thursday. And there were some mixed results for the deepest position in this draft. And it begs the question, these measurements, these results, does it make the draft a little less deep than we thought it was at defensive end at edge? Now, of course, here's the warning.

Starting point is 00:13:29 We all learned this last year with Will Campbell, the Will Campbell saga, the nonstop talk about the arm length, the wingspan, the frame, the this, the that, the other thing. Warning, pro day arm length measurements can be different than we're. combine arm length measurements. It depends on who takes the measurement. Will Campbell had a better arm length measurement at his pro day than he had at the combine. And it wasn't just Campbell. You can look up and down a bunch of the offensive lineman last year.

Starting point is 00:14:04 And it was like their arms grew from the combine to their pro day. So that is the warning. That is the caveat. With that said, Ruben Bain, one of the most talented players. in this draft, very unlikely to be a Patriot. He ends up measuring 6'2, 263 pounds. His arm length was 30 and 7.8 inches. Some might say he now has to move inside.

Starting point is 00:14:31 We'll see. Guys that are more likely to be targeted by the Pats. Cassius Howell, he met with the Patriots, explosive, productive at Texas A&M. Daniel Jeremiah, with those measurements, 6-2, 253, and his arm length was 30 and one-quarter inches. If you're wondering, Harold Landry's arm length is 32 and 7-8s. Kalevon-Chesons is 32 and a quarter.

Starting point is 00:15:00 Now, Matt Miller really put perspective into these, you know, measurements from Rubin Bain and Cassius Howell. Matt Miller of ESPN posted at 30 and 7-8s and 30 and 1 quarter inches, arm length. Ruben Bain and Cassius Howell would have the shortest arms for an edge rusher drafted in the first round since at least 1999. When we talked about Will Campbell, there were other offensive linemen and other tackles who were drafted that had arm length similar to Will Campbell. Now were those guys drafted fourth overall? Not necessarily. But I mean, we're talking about this would be something that hasn't been seen since 1990.

Starting point is 00:15:43 I feel like Prince. R. Mason Thomas also linked to the Patriots from Oklahoma. He's been compared to Harold Landry. He measured in at six feet, two inches. He weighed 241 pounds. If you're wondering, Phil Perry mentioned on Twitter, Harold Landry was 252 out of Boston College. So much thinner, much lighter than Landry.

Starting point is 00:16:07 And R Mason Thomas's arm length was 31 and 5'8s. Again, Landry, 32 and 7-8s, chase on 32 and a quarter. So, Bain, Howell, and Thomas all measured sub-32-inch arms. Now, maybe their arms will grow slightly at the pro day. Adam Schafter reported that Ruben Bain had at least two teams that measured him over 32 inches, as far as arm length, I believe is what Schefter tweeted, which is pretty crazy to go from 30 and 7-8s to more than 32 inches. That's a gigantic jump.

Starting point is 00:16:40 But right now, Bain Howell Thomas, all below 32-inch arm-length. Why is that matter? Let's go back to Matt Miller. The NFL scouting combine arm-length measurement for the top 10 sack producers in the 2025 season. And Miller posted the top 10 guys. Again, the top 10 sack producers in the NFL this past year. Miles Garrett, number one, over 35-inch arms, freakish. Brian Burns, number two, over 33-inch arms.

Starting point is 00:17:10 Daniel Hunter, number three, over 34-inch arms. Now, Aidan Hutchinson was just over 32-inch arms. So I remember that conversation when Detroit was looking at Aiden Hutchinson. People were wondering, will the arm length hamper him? It has not. Nick Benito, also somebody who has just over 32-inch arm length. Michael Parsons, 32 and 4.8s. So, I mean, you start to see that really anybody above 32-inch arm length

Starting point is 00:17:40 has had success, and somebody like Miles Garrett with 35-inch arms is just an absolute beast. So that's why. That's why people look at the 32-inch arm length as kind of the benchmark. More notable edges in this combine, Keldrick Falk, 65, 276, 34, and 3-8s. T.J. Parker from Clemson, we talked about him earlier episode, 6-3, 263, 33 and 1-8s. Akeem Mesidor, one of my favorites, 6-3-259, 32-1-8s. Zion Young also has been connected to the Patriots, 6-6-262, 33-inch arms.

Starting point is 00:18:26 Deny Dennis Sutton from Penn State, 66, 23-5-inch arms. Joshua Joseph's, 642, 342, and a quarter, and Derek Moore from Michigan, 64-256. 55, 33, and 3-8s. Now, it's different when we sit here and we talk about edge players versus Will Campbell, and we try to make that comparison with the arm length and how much it could impact a prospect. Because remember, Will Campbell, to me, his worst case scenario is you tuck him inside. You slide him to guard. And pretty much every single pundit and expert out there believes if you have to move Campbell to guard one day,

Starting point is 00:19:07 he's going to end up being a great guard. The difficulty here is that you can't move a lot of these edges to the inside. They're not big enough. Their frames are not big enough. Some of them can move inside. Some of them have shown that versatility, but not all of them. So if you're somebody that has, you know, length questions and you're not a bigger frame dude and you can't move inside, then a team might look at you and say,

Starting point is 00:19:36 I mean, if this guy doesn't work, he's going to be a bust. We don't have many other options to look at with this player. Now, again, we talked about this with Campbell last year, sub-32-inch arms. You know, if you have that and you are productive, you're seen as a borderline unicorn. Not impossible. It's not impossible, but you are pretty much seen as a unicorn. You've got to have special traits, a special motor,

Starting point is 00:20:05 something has to be, you know, special about your ability on the field to make up for the shorter arm length, which is what Elliott Wolf talked about this week when he talked about Will Campbell. In Wolf's estimation, Campbell has some special traits, the athleticism and some other things that help curb the short arm length. Now, people would argue, say, well, we saw him get dusted a few times this year. I'm just telling you what Wolf's point was. They thought that Campbell had special traits coming out of LSU that made up for the arm length and wingspan questions. You've got to have the same kind of feeling, the same kind of vibe for these edges who have shorter arms. I mean, especially guys like Ruben Bain and Cassius Howell,

Starting point is 00:20:52 who don't even hit the 31 inch mark at the combine. You've got to feel like they are special. And if you feel like they're special and they dominated college, they did this, they did that, then you have to feel like they'll be fine. But there's no doubt this hurts the value of some of these players. We'll see the pro day measurements, and it might knock these guys down a few levels here. And you might now have Cassius Howell sitting there at 31, for example, when people thought he might go 20, 21, 22. Coming up, the very latest on Christian Barmore and Stefan Diggs's future in New England. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

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Starting point is 00:22:18 in every sip, sweet birthday cake inspired flavor, notes of vanilla frosting and sugary sprinkles. Find your new favorite flavor of five-hour energy shots, whether it's cotton candy or confetti craze or something else. They're available online at five-hour energy.com or Amazon. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. People have been talking all week at the combine. That's what happens. Stuff starts to leak out. And Phil Perry had some nuggets on his next Pat's podcast.

Starting point is 00:22:52 And I wanted to cover those nuggets because we've talked about Christian Barmore. We've talked about Stefan Diggs and how it is not a fate of complie that they will return in 2026. Let's start with Christian Barmore. Here's what Phil Perry had to say on his pod. He does great work. You should check it out. Quote, I believe Barmore has a relative. uncertain future in New England.

Starting point is 00:23:12 I've had people from other clubs ask me about his future in New England. A name we have circled and wonder if he's long for Foxborough. One league source told me this week, an adjective to describe Christian Barmore would be unpredictable. Not just the off-field stuff. The knee issue he had coming into the league. Moving forward, do you want to invest in the player and the person at a significant level in this Mike Vrable program, unquote.

Starting point is 00:23:44 So, I mean, it's almost easy to forget about the knee issue. You know, you think about Barmore, you think about the blood clots from a health standpoint. You think about the off-field stuff that we discussed in prior podcasts, the incidents that he has been a part of getting benched for a first quarter this past season by Vrable. To my recollection, the only player that was benched by Vrable this past season. And, you know, you start to go, oh, yeah, he also has some knee trouble. He was sent to the IR in 2022 with knee problems. And you start to think he's going to be 27 years old in July.

Starting point is 00:24:26 He's at least 315 pounds, probably bigger than that. He is a player that has to have his explosion to be at his highest productivity level. So you start to think about all these different things. and how they impact Barmore, I still don't think the Patriots are going to cut him. I don't think, I mean, let me, let me clarify this. They might cut him if the court case doesn't go well. And some of those allegations are pretty tough.

Starting point is 00:25:02 And some of the details are pretty tough. The fact that the alleged victim called the Patriots got a car ride to get away from Barmore, that night. But they're allegations for now. Now, if those allegations end up being true, then I think, yes, the Patriots could cut or, you know, cut him, try to give him away for a late pick or whatever. But if he clears those hurdles off the field, I don't think the Patriots are just going to give him up. But I do think, you know, if they could get a decent return for him, they'll absolutely entertain that. And if they could get a really good or great return for him, I would not be surprised whatsoever if he's gone.

Starting point is 00:25:46 And I do wonder if part of this, bringing up the knee and all of that, I do wonder if the Patriots are okay with this conversation being thrown out there because they might be trying to get Barmore to the negotiating table. He has a $10 million guarantee in a couple of weeks. Fascinating times. Also fascinating with Stefan Diggs. Phil Perry had something on Diggs during his next Pat's podcast. Quote, I have not yet run into a person that says, go ahead and lock him in for 2026 and beyond, unquote.

Starting point is 00:26:23 So Phil Perry says everybody he's talking to in Indianapolis, there hasn't been one single soul that is confident that Diggs will absolutely be back in 2026. And don't forget, neither Wolf nor Vrable committed to Diggs. in any kind of way this week. They chose their words very carefully when discussing Stefan Diggs. And what's fascinating about the Diggs situation, and I've touched on this a little bit, but I haven't really dug in. So let's dig in right now. The financial circumstances of Diggs's contract in his off-field situation, his legal

Starting point is 00:27:02 problems right now, make this a particularly challenging situation for the Pats in their front office. because Diggs will get $6 million guaranteed on March 13th. His next court date is April 1st. Last time I checked, March 13th comes before April 1st. So the Patriots would have to make a decision on that $6 million guaranteed before Diggs steps into a court again. What happens if you guarantee the $6 million?

Starting point is 00:27:38 He goes to the court date and all of a sudden these allegations end up being true. It all blows up in your face and now you just gave. You just handed Stefan Diggs $6 million guaranteed and he ends up not being on your football team. In the backdrop to all of this, Diggs is at a $26.5 million cap hit. So this is, again, it's a very difficult scenario where you've got the guaranteed money coming up before the court date with a big cap hit. And ultimately, you've got to look at this and say, do we trust Stefan Diggs? Do we trust he's going to do the right thing? Do we trust his side of the story?

Starting point is 00:28:24 Do we trust that this court case is going to go okay? Do we trust any of it? And then you also have to wonder, what is Diggs going to ask for money-wise? Because I don't think he's going to be happy with the, you know, 7.7 million guaranteed that he would get as of March 13th. 1.7, I think, is already guaranteed. And then you add that $6 million chunk. I think Diggs going to want more than that. So, you know, these conversations are always multi-layered and they're never easy.

Starting point is 00:28:57 But especially with Barmore and Diggs with the off-feelior. stuff with the money and when these decisions have to be made. I mean, really, really tough. And then ultimately, you've got to figure out how are you going to replace these guys? Can you replace these guys? I think it's easier right now to replace Christian Barmore because you could bring back Kyrie's Tonga using the money. And then you have Corey Dirdin, Joshua Farmer, and of course you've got the absolute

Starting point is 00:29:26 superstar in Milton Williams. I think you can deal with the interior defensive line. In a perfect world, Barmore would be happy. He would be healthy. He would clear all those hurdles off the field. He'd play his best football in 2026, and you'd have Williams and Barmore together. But if you make the decision, say, say, la Vie,

Starting point is 00:29:47 I think you've got more options to replace Barmore than you do digs. Because right now, I mean, if you're going to try to replace digs, you already need a number one receiver, let alone a two, whether it's trade like Brian Thomas Jr., you know, drafting somebody like KC Concepcion at 31, trying to get into the free agency field and try to bring somebody in that you think could be a fit. And Pop Douglas, he's not really a great fit for the McDaniels offense, Josh McDaniels' offense, as we've talked about.

Starting point is 00:30:16 So, you know, I think replacing digs would be difficult. But if you make the decision now, or at least within the next week or two, you pay pivot, you go into free agency knowing that. All right, that wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. Thank you for making us your first listen for being an everydayer. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C Radio. Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. Hit that like button and subscribe.

Starting point is 00:30:43 And if you're looking for a gift for someone, make it easy. Check out the Everydayer Club, add free episodes of this show, exclusive Discord, server access, and more five bucks a month. Subscriptions can be gifted through lockdownpatriots. dot supercast.com. Have a great weekend and we will talk to you on Monday.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Priority: Patriots & Brian Thomas Jr.—Why New England Should Go All In

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