Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - REPORT: Mike Vrabel LEADS New England Patriots Differently

Starting point is 00:00:00 Details leak out about how Mike Vrabel is running this Patriots ship. That's where we start on this episode of Locked On Patriots. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I'm your host, Nick Cattles, born and raised in New England. Your New England Patriots expert, host of the Everything Pats podcast, co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattles, and also a sports talk show host veteran.

Starting point is 00:00:39 On today's episode, another Patriots captain gets released and we discuss one of the most polarizing prospects from the 2025 draft. But first we have Intel on how coach Rable is leading the program at Gillette. We appreciate you joining the show making us your first listen. And for being an everyday or the lockdown Patriots podcast is a proud partner of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. And this episode is brought to you by Fandl. Right now, new customers can get $250 in bonus bets

Starting point is 00:01:12 when your first $5 bet wins. When Mike Vrabel was hired by the Patriots, there was some, I'm not going to sit here and paint it as the majority. There were some down in Tennessee that witnessed Vrabel and what he did with the Tennessee Titans. And some of those people said, Vrabel likes to stick with his guys. He likes his inner circle. They also said that Vrabel was, for all intents and purposes, his way or the highway. Very Bill Parcells, very Bill Belichick. Well, we get the latest from Mark Daniels of MassLive telling us how Mike Vrabel has actually run this program so far. Here's what Daniels wrote.

Starting point is 00:01:56 Throughout this pre-draft process, sources told MassLive that Vrabel's ability to communicate made it an easier transition. The Patriots coach held a pre-draft meeting in February before the combine where he laid out his vision and what he looked for in a prospect at each position. Scouts also had a chance to step up in this meeting and go to bat for their favorite fits. Multiple sources in the room told Mass Live that Vrabel left a good impression. Part of the process came with healthy debates about each pick. Vrabel does not want yes men.

Starting point is 00:02:31 He doesn't want yes men in his scouting department or front office. The Patriots coach wants people who will speak their minds and have a willingness to listen to other opinions. The willingness to listen to other opinions. The willingness to listen. The only way you're going to get a true evaluation of a player is by allowing everybody in the room to speak up, share their opinions, share their thoughts, their evaluations. That's the only way you're gonna get a true read

Starting point is 00:03:01 of the player that you're talking about. If it's going to be tunnel vision, if it's going to be one true read of the player that you're talking about. If it's going to be tunnel vision, if it's going to be one guy's thought process, one guy's evaluation, one guy's opinion, it's not going to go well. The best way to go about this kind of job that Mike Vrabel has along with Elliot Wolf and Ryan Cowden, is sitting down and hammering out these conversations. The back and forth, understanding what one person believes, the willingness to listen. That's how you truly evaluate an issue or a player

Starting point is 00:03:37 or whatever you're talking about. This is not going to be a dictatorship as far as Mike Vrabel walking into the room saying, this is who we're picking. It's not going to be a dictatorship as far as Mike Frabel walking into the room saying this is who we're picking It's not going to be a situation that we saw with Bill Belichick plenty of times where reportedly his scouting staff Says something about a player or makes a comparison to another player and Belichick ignores them and says whatever Doesn't matter. I'm gonna do what I'm going to do. I don't necessarily even need your thoughts on this. This is a different running of the ship. It's also important though, as we focus on the willingness to listen, it's more important

Starting point is 00:04:18 to have a willingness to change. And that's where you look at Belichick versus Vrabel. In Belichick, he might have told the people that worked with him and he might have even went in there with good intentions. And I'm sure sometimes he did listen to his scouts and have those conversations and spoke with people like Nick Cicero and in the early days Scott Pioli. But as time went on, it felt like, and it's been reported to a point, that Belichick, he might have been willing to have a conversation, but he was unwilling to change his mind. And so that's what I want to know. Mike Vrabel might be willing to listen to other people in the building to get their

Starting point is 00:04:59 thoughts on a player, but does he actually have the willingness to change? Is he going to change his mind about a player? Maybe he already has. Maybe he's changed his mind about multiple players because of these conversations, but willing to listen, and then willing to change willing to go with what somebody else thinks is the right thing to do. Those are two completely different things. So it's great to hear that variable is willing to listen, but is he willing to change his mind? Is he willing to make a decision that he might not have wanted to make?

Starting point is 00:05:32 minutes hours days prior to the conversation That he had or has And this is the way to do business This is the best way to do business. Because not only does it lead you to the true evaluation and better evaluations of players and processes and situations within a professional football organization, it also helps when you lose

Starting point is 00:05:56 valued members of your team. If Elliot Wolf goes or Ryan Cowden eventually goes, if those guys go, if one or both go, if you start to lose valuable members of your team, which is what happens to every successful team, it's what happened to Belichick over and over and over again. He kept losing talent. He kept losing talent in his coaching staff. He kept losing talent in his front office.

Starting point is 00:06:21 And maybe just maybe he didn't trust enough guys later on in the process because he lost so many people from the front offices that brought this organization the glory that it had six times. But when you lose those valued members, it's so important. It's so important to have a process like this for people to hear that Mike Vrabel is willing to listen to others in the room. That he's not necessarily ruling with the iron fist with his staff. Because then it's easier to pick replacements, first of all, because the people that have been in the room, you've given them the leeway.

Starting point is 00:07:02 You've given them the opportunity to speak their mind. So it's almost like Vrabel is able to scout the people that are within the front office, within those scouting departments. He's able to evaluate those people while he's evaluating players because of what those people are telling him about said players. So Vrabel can look at somebody in the front office and say, you know what, that guy stands out because everything he says or almost everything he says comes to fruition.

Starting point is 00:07:35 So if Ryan Cowden leaves or Elliot Wolf leaves or both of them leave, Alonzo Highsmith leaves, Vrabel will understand he'll have his own list from these conversations he's had throughout his time here. And he'll have an idea he'll have an idea as to okay if Ryan Cowden leaves, this is who I like to replace him. Because I understand where that person is coming from. They've given great evaluations, they're willing to push back. You're establishing relationships with the current front office. You're establishing

Starting point is 00:08:08 relationships with some lower level front office people. So when it comes time to promote somebody, you feel more comfortable because you've had these open conversations and you've had that give and take. It's also important to recruitment because if you want to bring people into your program, you want those people to feel like they're valued. And so if there is a top scout out there, somebody in another front office that's looking to move on up and Vrabel wants to poach that person. If that person knows that Vrabel is willing to listen to his front office people and sometimes even willing to change the decision he was going to make because of what those people

Starting point is 00:08:51 say, that's going to hold a lot of weight to prospective employees because they're going to look at Vrabel and say, if I go to the Patriots, my opinion is going to be valued. My evaluations are going to be valued, maybe more than they're valued currently. It also motivates people within the organization. It gives people within this front office that opportunity to be promoted. If you want one day to take over for Elliot Wolf

Starting point is 00:09:20 or Ryan Cowden, this is your chance. You get to say what you want to say to Vrabel. You get to try to win these arguments in those offices. And it really just makes it fun. It makes it fun to go to work. Because if you could walk in there and honestly have these conversations, and it feels like everybody's just trying to get to the best conversations and it feels like everybody's just trying to get to the best decision possible if it truly feels that way. It's a fun place to work. Speaking of leading, the team's leadership continues to go through dramatic changes. That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of

Starting point is 00:09:59 Locked On Patriots, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. The NBA playoffs, they're here. They're here, folks, as we know, the Celtics, they're playing in the playoffs right now. It's that time of year. And FanDuel is giving new customers an incredible way to get in on the NBA playoff action. Right now, when you join Fandul and place your first $5 bet that's your first $5 bet you'll get $250 and bonus bets if that first $5 bet wins

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Starting point is 00:11:03 Don't miss out, head to fan duel.com again. It's fan duel.com and claim your $250 in bonus bets and claim the two 50 today. Like variable has made a clear statement. She made a clear statement to his team. He's made a clear statement to the fan base. He's making a clear statement to his team. He's made a clear statement to the fan base. He's making a clear statement to everybody. The old leadership is gone. Out with the old, in with the new. Over draft weekend, the Patriots selected long snapper Julian Ashby in the seventh round. That caused some of you to get all worked up about drafting a long snapper in the seventh round.

Starting point is 00:11:45 But when that pick was made, it seemed pretty clear to me, I think to most of you, that Joe Cardona's time here in New England was running out. The TikTok was running out for Cardona. And that's exactly what happened. Joe Cardona was released by the Patriots in the past 24 hours. And Cardona was the longest tenured Patriot, 10 seasons here in New England, the old Patriot way. Cardona, the longest tenured Patriot was there at the Mike Vrabel introductory

Starting point is 00:12:22 press conference along with David Andrews. Now both guys are out and when you look at the leadership contingent from the player point of view last year and you look at what's happened since the end of last season to right now in late April, you look at last year's captains. Jacoby Brissette, gone. David Andrews, gone. Joanne Bentley, gone. Dietrich Weiss, gone. Joe Cardona, gone. The only one that survived is the one that actually had the captaincy stripped from him last year due to the off-field stuff and that's Jibril Peppers. You wonder is

Starting point is 00:13:03 Peppers next? Is he the next guy that was a captain for last year's team, for Gerard Mayo's team? Is he the last? He certainly is the last. Is he going to be the next to be gone? It's a question that's worth asking because so far, every single one of them other than Peppers out. And you could even look at somebody like Jonathan Jones,

Starting point is 00:13:28 who was not a captain, but certainly had captain tendencies and was looked at as a leader for this football team. Jones also gone, went with Weiss to Washington. So this is a clear statement from Mike Rabel. The old leadership, the old guard is out. Less Bill Belichick ties. This is a new vibe at Gillette Stadium, at the facility. It's a new approach from a new guy in charge. And it's obvious that Mike Vrabel wants to mold the leadership group that will be on

Starting point is 00:14:06 the field in 2025. He wants to mold this leadership group with his own vision, who he believes should be leading this football team. Not who Gerard Mayo thought, not who Bill Belichick thought. This is about Mike Vrabel's vision, the leadership group that he sees, that he wants to put together. Now, I'm sure the players will have plenty of say if not the say, but Vrabel is setting the standard. The guys that you depended on last year, you have to depend on new guys this season. This is a new regime. it's a new vibe, it's a new approach, it's almost a new football

Starting point is 00:14:47 team with how many changes they've made. And it's critical because you want to be on the same page. You want to be cohesive, just like we were talking about in the last segment with the front office and the coaching staff and Vrabel working with Elliot Wolfe and Ryan Cowden. You want to be on the same page, you want to have healthyden. You want to be on the same page. You want to have healthy debates. You want to have fantastic conversations. You want the same thing from the coaching staff to the players, and you want it from player to player. Everybody on the same page. You don't have somebody saying, well, we used to do it this way. We used to do it that way. You don't have any of that. This is Raible's team now. And so he wants

Starting point is 00:15:27 it to be cohesive. He wants everybody to be reading from the same book. And I think it also sets the tone, frankly, and sets some urgency to the idea of competition. If you're in that locker room, if you played for the Patriots last year, and you looked towards Joanne Bentley, and wise and brissette and you look towards those guys as the leaders of the team. And they're standing within the team was safe. They were mentors to a lot of people in the locker room. Well, now, with all of those guys aside from peppers being out, you must

Starting point is 00:16:06 feel that nobody's safe. You want to put the players feet to the fire. You want to set the tone as far as competition goes. You want to make these guys feel the urgency with every fiber of their being that they have to compete because if they don't compete, and they don't go about the business the right way, they will be out the door because all these other guys have been out the door If you're willing to go clean sweep with the captains from last year's team You want to set that thought process that almost nobody safe now Of course, we know there are players that are safe the guys that signed pretty safe in this offseason Drake may is signed pretty safe in this offseason. Drake May is pretty, pretty safe.

Starting point is 00:16:48 But if you're in the middle of a competition, you don't feel comfortable. You feel like you've got to fight. This also motivates players that are on this roster to step up, step up, lead. There's going to be opportunities. Step up, lead. There's going to be opportunities. And this is your chance to take advantage of those opportunities and become a leader for this football team. Take advantage of it.

Starting point is 00:17:14 Grasp onto it. And I'm sure this will motivate some guys to step up and say, I don't just want to play football. I want to be a leader of this team. I want to help Coach V of this team. I want to help coach variable set the standard That's what I want So it just it really Builds the competition as you get ready for camp. There are roster spots open. There are leadership spots open

Starting point is 00:17:43 variable wants a hungry football team. When these guys get on the field and start practicing for real. Evan Lazar posted that the Patriots no longer have any players that have won a Super Bowl with the Patriots. Andrew Callahan posted Kyle Dugger, who was a second round pick in 2020, just five years ago, is now the longest tenured Patriot, Kyle Dugger, no more relying on the past success. There's, there's no more relying on remember the good old days, the Patriot way, when we won Super Bowls and Vrebel wants to win, but he doesn't want guys, he doesn't want any of the feel and I'm not saying that the captains from last year would have brought this into the locker

Starting point is 00:18:31 room. But he just wants to make sure that people aren't relying on the past success of this program. They're not banking on the yesteryear. They've got to focus on the now. It's about the now. yesteryear. They've got to focus on the now. It's about the now and what kind of standard the 2025 Patriots are trying to set. Don't rely on the past success. Enjoy the past success. Understand what helped you become successful, but don't rely on it. And Vrabel, he's not going to rely on the Belichick approach or the Patriot way. He's going to set things his way. And the Patriots have winners on this roster, don't get it twisted. I mean, Milton Williams just won the Super Bowl a couple of months ago. So it's not like you have a locker room full of guys who have been on five win teams or

Starting point is 00:19:21 have no idea what it takes to make a deep playoff run, get to the playoffs or win a championship. You do have guys, it's just they haven't done it in New England. They haven't done it with this organization. And it begs the question and it's a fair question. Are more changes coming? I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't doubt it. This is not about what happened years ago. It's not about the success that some of these guys had found with this organization years ago. It's about, hey, we're getting off that train because we've had back to back four win seasons. We've got to set this thing to a different standard. We've got to recalibrate.

Starting point is 00:20:04 And that recalibration happens under Mike Vrabel's watch. And Vrabel is getting rid of the guys that were tied to Belichick and were the true leaders for Belichick because he wants his new leadership group. Time to move on from the past. All right, let's dig into one of the most polarizing picks of this draft for the Patriots

Starting point is 00:20:25 safety, Craig Woodson. That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of Locked On Patriots, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. You ever check your bank account and wonder, where did all my money go? Between dining out, online shopping, entertainment. Believe me, it's easy to lose track. I've been there. And that's where Monarch Money comes in.

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Starting point is 00:21:58 And some said reach, he's a reach. Look at the consensus board and the consensus board told us that Craig Woodson was somewhere in the 180s as far as where he was expected to be picked and he was picked at 106 So when you look at the consensus, it tells us that Craig Woodson was a reach but really was he a reach Was he worth the pick? Greg Bedard I thought had a fantastic point at BSJ. He wrote the Patriots had all night Friday and Until noon Saturday to figure out what they were going to do at 106 to me This was clearly a player. They targeted at a position of need It's a great point by Greg

Starting point is 00:22:41 The Patriots were being proactive. They were not reacting to a situation. They were not reacting to a run at safety. They had all Friday night after getting through day two of the draft to restack their board, figure out where they wanted to go, who they wanted to draft. They had all morning on Saturday and then the draft started at noon. So they had, I don't know, what was it, roughly 12 hours to figure out what they wanted to do at pick 106, and they chose Craig Woodson. Bruce Feldman of the Athletic covers college football. Bruce Feldman of the Athletic covers college football. He wrote this about Woodson, the Patriots drafted Woodson, a player that an NFL DB coach from another team told me

Starting point is 00:23:34 he hoped would fall to them. And I found that fascinating because Feldman says, there was a team that was hoping that Woodson was going to fall to them. What I wanna know is who was the team that was hoping that Woodson was going to fall to them. What I want to know is who was the team and where were they picking? Because after Woodson was picked, there were not one, not two, but three safeties chosen in the fourth round post Woodson.

Starting point is 00:23:58 So was one of those teams in the fourth round behind the Woodson pick, one of those teams were they looking at Woodson and did the Patriots have that intel? Did the Patriots have that information? And that's why they scooped up Woodson at 106 because they knew that a team in the fourth round underneath them wanted Woodson and they thought Woodson was going to fall to them. They were hoping that Woodson was going to fall to them. They were hoping that Woodson was going to fall to them. The Patriots got ahead of the fourth round safety run. So it's very interesting that Bruce Feldman wrote that. I've been clamoring for a free safety for the past couple of years.

Starting point is 00:24:39 I believe that Kyle Dugger and Jabril Peppers are best suited closer to the line of scrimmage than further away from the line of scrimmage than further away from the line of scrimmage. The Patriots have needed, in my estimation, a free safety who had some athleticism and could make some plays in the deep secondary. In Woodson, he has the athleticism. I wouldn't say he's a spectacular athlete, but compared to some other safeties, he's a good athlete. You might even classify him as really good compared to some other safeties. His relative athletic score was an 8.83 out of 10.

Starting point is 00:25:16 So he's a good athlete. Very, very smart. His interview with the media won the media over. Very, very smart guy. Great recall on the field, very smart, communicates in a great way on the field with his teammates. How many times have we seen miscommunication in the secondary over the past couple of years? We're left shaking our head. How many times did we see a team pass for a touchdown in the red zone last year?

Starting point is 00:25:42 It felt like it was 100. And how many times were those touchdowns because of miscommunication in the red zone from the secondary, a bunch of them, high IQ, good athlete, had five interceptions in college, 14 past breakups so he can make some plays on the football. Woodson and I'm not telling you what's going to be great. I'm just telling you why the Patriots felt like they needed to draft Woodson where they drafted him. They might end up being dead wrong.

Starting point is 00:26:09 He might end up stinking. But this is why he also brings versatility. He can play the big nickel position. And don't forget going back several weeks ago, Vrabel told all of us how crucial the nickel position is on defense, especially now in 2025. He underlined that specific position. Evan Lazar posted that Vrabel was asked by CLNS's Taylor Kyles about the nickel cornerback

Starting point is 00:26:40 spot and Elliott Wolf said the big nickel will be a big part of Vrabel's defense. Taylor Kyles himself posted Vrabel used more true nickel with Tennessee with third safeties primarily coming in for dime packages. And Chad Graf of The Athletic wrote that Woodson played all over the secondary at Cal, including in the slot. So now you start to put the pieces together. Why was Woodson drafted 106? Well, A, there was a team that was interested in him, at least one team.

Starting point is 00:27:16 And I know Daniel Jeremiah had Woodson anywhere from like the middle of the third round to the beginning of the fifth was his range for Woodson. But there was at least one team that was interested in hoping that he would fall. third round to the beginning of the fifth was his range for Woodson. But there was at least one team that was interested in hoping that he would fall. And then you look at the athleticism, you look at the IQ, the communication skills, the ability to make plays on the football, his versatility, which will allow him theoretically to slide into that big nickel role, which is very important for Vrabel and his defense. And if you didn't draft

Starting point is 00:27:45 Woodson, you were looking at Marcus Jones, Marcellus Dial, you can throw Isaiah Bolden in there as possibilities, as at least options there. But don't get a twisted Woodson, he can cover. He has proven that he can cover, he has proven he can defend the run. Whether playing safety or playing slot in that big nickel. And coverage was lacking at safety. That has not been a strength for the Patriots. Eric Galco, the director of football ops at the Shrine Bowl, he posted per Pro Football Focus,

Starting point is 00:28:20 Woodson's 2024 season was one of the best seasons a safety has had in the last five years. Woodson finished with an 85 plus coverage and run grade in 2024. He's one of five guys to do that since 2020 at safety. 85 plus coverage grade, 85 plus run grade last year. Phil Perry posted that Woodson among 123 safeties with at least 90 coverage snaps in the slot last season. He was seventh in quarterback rating allowed under 50, 49.6 that's per pro football focus. And you look at Vrabel's history and you should

Starting point is 00:29:04 trust that Vrabel and his team of evaluators, including Ryan Cowden, we should feel pretty good about their ability to evaluate and find good safety play. Ryan Cowden mentioned Kevin Byard as a non-combine guy who was very good with communication, smart guy. He was drafted in the third round. Everybody reacted and said Tennessee reached. And Cowden said, I'm not going to compare players but comparing situations. It's a situation this time around where we trusted our board. And Phil Perry brought

Starting point is 00:29:34 up Mike Vrabel's history. He likes to lean on versatile safeties, Bayard, Amani Hooker, Kenny Vaccaro. He likes guys who can run, hit, and make plays. And that's what Woodson did in college. It's not a guarantee, but it should bring you some confidence that the Woodson pick was not a complete what in the heck just happened kind of deal. All right. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. On tomorrow's show, Austin Hooper has a lot to say about the offense and Drake May.

Starting point is 00:30:07 Let me know your thoughts on today's topics. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C. Radio. Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. And thank you for making Lockdown Patriots your first listen today. For your second listen, check out Lockdown NFL Scouting. The NFL draft, of course, it's's over but the roster moves and news never stops hosts Kyle crabs and Joe Marino will make you the most informed NFL fan this off season find locked on NFL scouting on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts have a

Starting point is 00:30:36 great day and we'll see you tomorrow.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - REPORT: Mike Vrabel LEADS New England Patriots Differently

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