Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Report: New England Patriots Could “Pull A Surprise” During NFL Draft

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Patriots reportedly could pull a surprise on draft night. That's where we start on this episode of Locked On Patriots. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I'm your host, Nick team every day. What's up, Patriots fans. I'm your host, Nick Cattles, born and raised in New England. Your New England Patriots expert host of the Everything Pats podcast, cohost of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattles and also a sports

Starting point is 00:00:38 talk show host veteran on today's episode, the Patriots could get aggressive to land one of the best players in the draft and the left tackle prospect that we should be talking about a lot more. But first we start with the latest Intel on the Patriots plans Thursday night. We appreciate you joining the show, making us your first listen and for being an everyday or the lockdown Patriots podcast is a proud partner of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day and check out the lockdown NFL mock draft that was released earlier this week. Today's episode brought to you by Fandool right now, new customers can get $250 in

Starting point is 00:01:17 bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins. The latest Intel we have it for you. And the latest Intel tells us that the fourth pick in this draft is not necessarily a one horse race. It is not Will Campbell or bust, according to some people that you are reading recently. And that fourth pick could actually open the door to a surprise. This is from Tony Pauline of Sportskeeda. In my notes and rumors article from last week, I mentioned a word circulating in the league that the Patriots could pull a surprise and take on Edgarsher with the fourth pick of the

Starting point is 00:01:59 draft. On Monday, separate sources confirmed this and mentioned Jaylen Walker as potentially the Patriots' choice, which is the second time I heard that name coupled with New England. That would throw a curveball at the top of the draft, but it makes sense considering the franchise is now being led by Mike Vrabel, a defensive-minded head coach. Later Monday, Pauline writes, I confirmed that the Patriots had a decent sized contingent in attendance at last Thursday's workout on the Georgia campus, which featured Walker and

Starting point is 00:02:31 Michael Williams. They later took Walker out for lunch. You don't take somebody out for lunch this late in the process unless you are legitimately interested in that someone. You're not going to waste the lunch date, not in mid to late April. The clock's ticking. You're about a week away from making your pick at number four. If you're taking somebody out to lunch this late in the process,

Starting point is 00:02:59 you're doing it for a reason. Walker seems to be from everything you read, whether it's Mike Reese or Albert Breer or Tony Pauline, Jaylen Walker seems to be the Patriots' top choice if they decide to choose defense over offense at number four. It feels like it's Walker versus Campbell. If the Pats want to go offense, they're going to draft Campbell. If the Pats want to go defense, they're going to draft Campbell. If the Pats want to go defense, they're going to draft Jalen Walker. Now, of course, this all could change. The math could change if Abdul Carter falls to them at four, if Travis Hunter falls to them at four, which not many people expect to happen, especially when we're talking about Travis Hunter.

Starting point is 00:03:41 So this math can change depending on what happens in the top three picks, which we'll get to a little bit later on during this episode. But right now in a vacuum, you're sitting there at number four and you either have Jaylen Walker or Will Campbell on your board at the top. That's what it feels like to me. And if the Patriots decide to go defense, maybe they like the defense of end projection of Jaylen Walker more than they like the left tackle projection for Will Campbell. If they go defense, it feels like it's going to be Walker. If it's offense, it'll be Campbell. Now, of course, we also have to mention that you are responsible.

Starting point is 00:04:20 When you are an organization getting ready for the draft, you are responsible for every single solitary scenario that can play out. Mike rabble eliot wolf ryan cowden they get paid what they get paid. To be ready for anything to happen on draft night. What are that scar falling to them at four or hunter. Or somebody calls them wanting to move up for shader sand Sanders or somebody calls them to want to move up for another player. You have to be ready for every single scenario trade up trade down stick and pick and so I wonder could this launch with Jalen Walker not be about the fourth pick could this

Starting point is 00:05:01 lunch with Jalen Walker actually be about trading down? And maybe just maybe the Patriots are doing that due diligence with Walker so late in the process because they feel there is still a chance that they could trade down in this draft, that somebody will come up to four, they go down, and maybe just maybe depending on how far they go down They feel like Walker by far is their best option at that pick So this could be simply preparation For some kind of trade Patriots might be thrilled drafting will Campbell at four they might not care about anything else if nothing

Starting point is 00:05:42 Pops up that surprises us. If there is no Carter, if there is no Hunter, if there's no, man we can't turn that kind of trade down. If there's nothing like that and they're sitting at four and they have to stick and pick, they could just feel great about rolling with Will Campbell and say no. If we're staying at four, Will Campbell's the pick. But if something comes up and we move down, we really love this kid Walker. And if we go down to seven, eight, six, 10, whatever, if Walker is there, we want that guy.

Starting point is 00:06:19 And then you can even go through the other scenarios, which is you can trade down and then back up because you've done your due diligence on Walker and you love the guy, but you think he's going to be gone by the pick that you now have after trading down. You can play those games, but I would not, I would not read this story and just believe from Tony Pauline that Walker could leapfrog Campbell. And that's the only reason why they're having this lunch with walker and they brought a big contingent to georgia to watch walker and williams workout. There could be other things at hand including preparing for that trade down.

Starting point is 00:06:57 Because i'm not quite sold at the patriots would actually take walker at number four because there is a boom or bust element to Walker. Pro Football Focus wrote about Walker's boom or bust nature. Here's what they wrote. He carries some risk because the skill driving his top 10 buzz, pass rushing ability, is something he has not done full time. His performance in coverage and run defense was serviceable, but unspectacular. Walker's size is certainly a concern. Dimensions likely mean he'll need to play off the line

Starting point is 00:07:32 of scrimmage on early downs. I'm less concerned about Walker's size with the Patriots, because Mike Frable, Terrell Williams, they have experience with guys that are roughly the size of Walker. You can look at Harold Landry. I think Landry is like an inch taller than Walker, maybe 10, 15 pounds heavier. You would hope to believe that, you know, Walker could gain 10, 15 pounds, maybe five, 10 pounds in the NFL. You get them on a certain diet.

Starting point is 00:08:03 He should be able to put something on his frame. So I don't think the size is as big of an issue for the Patriots as it might be for other teams based off the Patriots experience with players similar, similar to a Walker with Vrabel and Williams in town. Burt Breer wrote about Jaylen Walker, Mark Downwalker as one of the class's most complex prospects. Most think he's a future captain. There's less agreement on the kind of player he'll be. And you have to wonder, you have to question whether there's a split. That's the other possibility here, that there is a split in the room. That certain people that are talking

Starting point is 00:08:43 about what the Patriots should do at number four, they feel like Will Campbell is the answer. Other people in that room say, we're not totally sold on Will. We think Jaylen Walker is a better player. He's at a premium position. We should draft Walker. These kinds of conversations have been happening for the last couple of months. And as you get closer to the draft, you want to hone in on who is your guy. And so there could be, there could be some disagreement in the room right now about whether it should be Walker or Campbell. And so whoever is in the Campbell camp might say, all right, let's acquiesce. Let's have that lunch with Jaylen Walker. Let's go see him work out.

Starting point is 00:09:23 And maybe just maybe the young man can sell me that he is the pick at four. But I don't think we should take this lightly. There's way too much smoke surrounding Jalen Walker with the Patriots. I think he's absolutely on the table getting picked by the Pats. I'd still lean Will Campbell. Calls are reportedly happening between teams at the top of the draft. And those calls could open the door to a massive Patriots deal. That's next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots,

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Starting point is 00:11:24 The Browns and Giants are fielding trade talks. are not completely dead just yet. Trade talks are happening, folks, happening right now around the league. The Browns and Giants are fielding trade inquiries for their early picks in the NFL draft. Sources told ESPN's Peter Schrager, sources told Schrager that the Browns and the Giants have received trade calls over the past 48 hours. And here's the key, neither team,

Starting point is 00:11:43 neither the Browns nor the Giants are outwardly rejecting those overtures. So they're taking those calls, they're having those conversations. Mark Daniels at Mass Live wrote this, according to a source, the Patriots are not, they are not, locked into staying and picking. So they don't look at this draft being at number four, they're not looking at this and saying to themselves and saying to the people in that room, we're gonna stick and pick.

Starting point is 00:12:11 We are locked in, we're sticking and picking. According to Mark Daniels, that's not the conversation that's happening. They're talking about other possibilities. And if the Giants and the Browns are taking phone calls the Patriots should absolutely unequivocally 100% be one of those phone calls if You have a chance if you have an opportunity to land Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter You owe it to yourself. You owe it to your team. You owe it to your fan base

Starting point is 00:12:39 You owe it to ownership to pick up that phone and call Cleveland and New York and ask them at least what would it take? What would it take? If Abdul Carter is there at number three New York, what's your ask? Hey Cleveland, Cam Ward's going one. We all know that the whole world knows that Cam Ward's going one. What would it take for you to deal that second pick so we can move up and draft Travis Hunter? You make that phone call. It would be malpractice if you didn't make that phone call. We're talking about premium positions

Starting point is 00:13:14 and blue chip prospects. Defensive end slash edge, Abdul Carter, he could possibly dominate NFL games for the next decade, getting after the quarterback time and time again. Travis Hunter, known as the best receiver in this class, and obviously would fill a need for you and would help Drake May for the next decade or so. We're talking premium positions, we're talking blue chip prospects, we're talking opportunity.

Starting point is 00:13:42 And if you're the Patriots, the reason why the Patriots aren't necessarily in love with sticking and picking at four right now, they're not quote unquote locked in according to Mark Daniels is because there are so many questions about the players that will be left on the board for them. We've gone through this. There are all sorts of questions. Jalen Walker with this size. Is he a tweener?

Starting point is 00:14:03 Mason Graham, his size. We've gone through it. Will Campbell, is he a tad, there are so many questions at number four. As you sit there, you realize, you realize that you're going to draft a flawed player. You're going to draft somebody who might not be perfect for you. Now there are players like Ashton Gentry. Some would say Tyler Warren, who are clean prospects, they don't play premium positions. There could be some pushback. You could say, well, Josh McDaniels makes tight end a premium position.

Starting point is 00:14:32 And I think that's a good debate. I think that's a good argument. I think it's a great counter. But I don't think the Patriots are looking tight end. I don't think they're looking at running back at number four. They want that positional value. They want that positional versatility. And so when you're looking at Abdul Carter, you're looking at Travis Hunter, premium positions, baby. That's what the Patriots are looking at. Now,

Starting point is 00:14:55 I don't think, I do not think that Cleveland is going to pass on Hunter. Andrew Barry's out there calling them the Shohei Otani of football. I think the Browns have been mostly quiet about what they're going to do as a favor to the NFL. For the last month and a half, two months, everybody has known on God's green earth that Cam Ward is going to Tennessee. Everybody knows it. Tennessee finally came out this week and said, we're staying at one. We have a consensus of who we're going to pick. Everybody knows who that's going to be. Cleveland knows and Cleveland has known that Tennessee

Starting point is 00:15:36 is going to draft Cam Ward and with that being the case, Cleveland knows Travis Hunter is sitting there for them waiting to be picked. Now, yeah, they could draft absolute Carter, but Hunter is the more clean prospect. Hunter is seen by, I believe, the majority of the league as the best player in this draft. So I don't think the Browns are passing on Travis Hunter at number two. So inevitably the question is, what would it cost the Patriots to move up to number three via a trade with the Giants? Now I looked at some of the recent history and we have to keep this in mind. Trading up for a quarterback is completely different

Starting point is 00:16:17 than trading up for a non quarterback. Teams are going to ask for more if you're trading up for a quarterback. That's why the Patriots not getting the first pick in this draft hurts so much because they would have had Tennessee, New York and Cleveland. Chomping at the bit to trade up to one to draft cam ward. And they could have taken advantage of that situation, but that's not where we're at. But there's nobody that's going to trade up. If you're the Patriots, you're not trading up to two or three to draft anybody but Hunter or Carter, non-quarterbacks.

Starting point is 00:16:51 So we have to treat that differently. The best example could be the Arizona trade back in 2023. Arizona traded the third pick and a fourth round pick to the Houston Texans for the 12th pick, a second round pick, and then in the next year's draft, 2024, a first and a third. It was a huge jump though. You're jumping from 12 to three. You're not jumping from four to three. That's a completely different world.

Starting point is 00:17:19 Houston obviously drafted Will Anderson. That's the move that they made. And they were willing to give up a second round pick, a future first and a future third. Arizona had a deal, swap that first round pick and go from three down to 12. And also give Houston a fourth round pick. So let's look at Jimmy Johnson's trade chart. The world renowned Jimmy Johnson trade chart, the difference between the third pick and the fourth pick, according to Jimmy Johnson's trade chart. The difference between the third pick and the fourth pick according to Jimmy Johnson's trade chart, I know some people might say, oh, Rich Hill has a

Starting point is 00:17:50 trade chart. Bill Belichick said that most teams still stand by the Jimmy Johnson chart. So I'm going to use the Jimmy Johnson chart. The difference between the third pick and the fourth pick in the draft, 400 points. So the Patriots have to make up 400 points to make this even. Trading the fourth pick, swapping it, swapping four for three, and also giving the Giants your second round pick number 38 for just the third pick, just that swap is too rich. Giving them number 38 to swap four and three is too rich of a deal. So here's the likely offer. 4 and 38, that's 2,320 points for 3 in a fourth round pick at 105. That's 2,284 points.

Starting point is 00:18:40 So 2320, 2284. That's the deal. That's how it would look. You're swapping your fourth pick for the third pick and you're giving up the 38th pick and you're getting in return the 105th pick, which is that fourth round pick from the Giants. Would you do that deal? Would you make that deal? Would you make that trade? Would you move up to three, give up 38, and get back that fourth round pick at 105? I would be willing to make that trade only, only if I have a left tackle solution.

Starting point is 00:19:21 If I feel like I have a left tackle solution, I would make that trade. If I could make a deal for Colton Miller, as we talked about on this podcast just a couple of episodes ago, if I can make that deal for Colton Miller and I have a left tackle on my roster that I believe in that is dependable, I'd make that deal. If I had some kind of trade cooked up where I could get into the second round and Find my left tackle in the second round I'd be open to that trade, but if if you can't do that as Tough as it is to say because Abdul Carter could be special I'm out.

Starting point is 00:20:09 I'm out because I don't want the Patriots walking out of this draft without a capable left tackle average to above average to maybe even higher than above average. I would say Colton Miller is a tick above above average since he was ranked in the top 15 and tackles. Via pro football focus, but if you're giving up that second round pick, if you're giving up 38, you're giving up the capital that you could utilize to either draft the left tackle at 38 or use that 38th pick to move back into the first round to draft your tackle.

Starting point is 00:20:42 If you went defense at four. And I just don't love the chances of finding a starting left tackle in the third round of this draft. This draft is not deep at tackle as we know. And the top priority walking into this off season was Drake May and protecting him. So if I'm going to make that deal with Abdul Carter for Abdul Carter. I better know. I better know what my solution is at Left Tackle and it better be an improved option over Vidarian Loan. Speaking of a Left Tackle solution, there's one name that's not getting enough attention. That's next as we continue

Starting point is 00:21:17 with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Did you know your Fire TV is also an Xbox? It's true. Turn any TV into your gaming and entertainment hub with Fire TV stick, 4K devices, no console required. Just grab your paired controller, subscribe or sign into Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with EA Play included. And you're ready to play. Dive into hundreds of

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Starting point is 00:22:41 Elvin Banks should be getting more attention than he's been getting. And it just came out within the last 12 hours or so that the Patriots actually had a top 30 visit with Banks, the tackle from Texas. And before the college football season kicked off, Calvin Banks was seen as a top 10 prospect in this draft. And Burt Breer recently wrote about Banks, and here's what he wrote. I had an interesting exchange with the GM on Monday night, where I said that I thought the Texas big man would go higher than people thought.

Starting point is 00:23:12 Here's what the GM joked to Burt. Quote, you mean non NFL people? Breer writes, the implication, of course, was that coaches and scouts have been high on Banks all along. Banks is more of a prototype left tackle than Will Campbell and is more polished and pro ready than Armand Membu. Meanwhile, Field Yates posted this about Banks, his size, foot quickness, and experience are a really good starting point, also helped by A plus character. point also helped by a plus character. Kelvin Banks, as they all say, he checks a lot of the boxes. The character question, is he a culture fit? Mike Vrabel wants adults. He wants mature

Starting point is 00:23:56 players, mature young men who can handle the responsibility of being such a high draft pick. Kelvin Banks, according to those who know him, according to those who report on him, say that his character is A plus. No character flaws. He'll walk into the room and he will be the guy that you want in that room. So character, check.

Starting point is 00:24:19 He was productive in the SEC. Yeah, he had a pretty brutal game against Georgia. Jaylen Walker, Mike L. Williams gave him fits. You might he had a pretty brutal game against Georgia. Jalen Walker, Mike L Williams gave him fits. You might not want to watch that game. I watched it live. Banks got cooked, but he also had a lot of good tape and he played in the SEC. And we know the SEC is absolutely no joke. If we're going to talk about Will Campbell and we're going to talk about his experience playing in the SEC, then it only stands to reason that we could give some love to Kelvin Banks for playing in the SEC. I've also talked about Will Campbell being young and that matters here in the conversation.

Starting point is 00:25:03 How young is a prospect? Because you can project that prospect out. If that prospect is 20, 21 years old, it's different than a 23, 24 year old. My argument about Tyler Warren not being the guy at number four in part has to do with him turning 23 next month. His ceiling is probably his ceiling and it's not bad. I really like Tyler Warren. Borderline love Tyler Warren as a prospect. But we're talking ceiling. Ceiling purposes. Kelvin Banks turned 21 years old last month. Will Campbell turn 21 in January? And Campbell's a young pup. Banks turned 21 just last month, turned 21 in March. And when we talk about measurables and the arm length, all about the arm length and getting

Starting point is 00:25:51 it out and getting that punch. When we talk about arm length and sat Kelvin Banks is six, five, three 15 and his arm measurement at both the combine and his pro day, which is interesting because the combine shortchanged pretty much everybody did not shortchange Banks. Banks had 33 and a half inch arms at the combine and at his pro day, his arms measured 33 and a half inches. So he has better arm length for the position of tackle. We talk about position versatility with Will Campbell.

Starting point is 00:26:25 If Will Campbell doesn't work out at left tackle, then you feel really good about Will Campbell working out at guard, even though you don't want to draft the guard at fourth overall. But the safer pick, as we have said, is Will Campbell at fourth because of that positional versatility. Banks has that similar positional versatility because Banks played left tackle at Texas, but many people will tell you that his best position could be left guard. So you're facing the same kind of question, a lot of the same questions. Banks doesn't have 34 inch arms, but he's got longer arms than Campbell. Both guys are 21 years old. Both guys were productive in the SEC. Both guys have no character concerns that we know of. Both guys have positional versatility. If you're projecting

Starting point is 00:27:19 them, they could end up playing left tackle in the NFL and be just fine. They could end up playing left tackle in the NFL and be just fine They could end up sliding to left guard and end up being even better at that position So there are a ton of similarities between Campbell and banks you could even say with that banks film against, Georgia Campbell has some film that's not great So you could look at certain games you could look at some of the film from each guy and walk away saying to yourself, that's not the best film I've ever seen. So why is Banks not being talked about? Banks should be in this conversation, along with a number of the other guys. And I'm guilty of it too. I haven't talked about Kelvin Banks enough. I talked about a lot. I talked a lot about him during the college football season, but I'm not sitting there pumping the tires of Kelvin Banks the last month, two months.

Starting point is 00:28:13 But there are a lot of similarities and the questions that we have about Campbell, some of the same questions we have about banks. I'd be interested in Kelvin Banks if the Patriots traded down because even though there are some questions about the tape of banks and of course there are questions about the tape for Campbell, if you look at last year, Campbell had the better tape. That's what the analysts will tell you.

Starting point is 00:28:37 The analysts will tell you, the offensive line gurus will tell you that Campbell had better tape than Banks. And Banks is also more undisciplined. Even though Campbell's had some issues, Banks had seven penalty flags thrown on him last year playing at Texas. He had seven penalties called on him. And Greg Bedard, I was reading his write-up on Banks. And by the way, Bedard has also said that he's not totally a believer in Will Campbell's ability to play left tackle for the long term. But Badaard said that he doesn't believe that Banks is a left tackle either and that Banks

Starting point is 00:29:13 is too heavy footed. But still, you have the same kinds of questions. Banks versus Campbell. And you know, Campbell's a better athlete, quicker feet, but there are arguments for Kelvin Banks. And we should just keep that in the back of our minds in case the Patriots trade back. Kelvin Banks would not be the worst booby prize, as they say, in this draft. All right.

Starting point is 00:29:38 That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots on tomorrow's show. You kidding me? It's officially draft day. You know what we're talking about. Let me know your thoughts on today's topics. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C Radio. Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel as well. And thank you. Thank you for making Lockdown Patriots your first listen today. For your second listen, check out the Lockdown NFL Draft with Damien Parson, Keith Sanchez. Things are heating up. Get the latest draft rankings, rumors, and the latest news every day. Every day, check that out. Speaking of day,

Starting point is 00:30:10 have a great one, and we'll see you tomorrow.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Report: New England Patriots Could “Pull A Surprise” During NFL Draft

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