Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Reset: Patriots Wide Receiver Depth Chart | Mike Onwenu Bounce Back?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Let's reset the wide receiver depth chart. That's where we start on this episode of Locked On Patriots. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I'm your host, Nick Cattles, born and raised in New England, your New England Patriots expert host of the Everything Pats podcast, co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattles, and also a Sports Talk Show host veteran. On today's episode, Big Mike has a big opportunity

Starting point is 00:00:39 to be a big help in 2025 and how the safety position could unfold during training camp. But first we discussed the wide receiver room. We appreciate you joining the show, making us your first listen for being an everyday or a lockdown Patriots podcast, a proud part of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. And as a reminder, we're going three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you get a new episode until we get back to five days a week starting on Monday, July 14th.

Starting point is 00:01:08 Another reminder, today's episode is brought to you by our friends at Fandl. Right now, new customers can get $150 in bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins. Training camp is one month away. One month away until training camp begins and we get to joint practices. Then we move on through the preseason and then we have football that matters. And during training camp, the wide receiver competition is one of the most fascinating elements of this football team. What will happen at that position? Who is going to stick? Who is going to go? Can we have a surprise addition to this roster? So I want to revisit the depth and I want to

Starting point is 00:01:48 start with Kaishan Booty because Mike Giardi at BSJ recently wrote this Booty may be in Drake May's circle of trust. He worked with the ones all spring, but he did not see a lot of throws come his way. Booty is interesting. He is an interesting player on this roster. I mean, you go back to last year, you could argue he was your best receiver. 43 catches, just under 600 yards at 589. And he had not one, not two, but three touchdowns, including the memorable first touchdown of Drake May's career against the Houston Texans down the right sideline at Gillette Stadium for that long TD. And Booty has chemistry with Drake May. He established that chemistry last year.

Starting point is 00:02:30 And when you talk about a young quarterback, it is so important that he trusts his receivers, that he has that chemistry built within the relationship, and that he feels at any moment he can go to his guy and his guy is going to make a play. So there's the immediate chemistry as you start 2025 as you get ready for camp there is that chemistry between May and Booty and May doesn't have that chemistry with you know just anybody else on this roster especially at that position. Jalen Polk last year struggled so you question the chemistry with he and Polk. Javon Baker couldn't get on the field.

Starting point is 00:03:08 He hasn't been practicing with May during OTAs and mandatory mini camps, so you question the chemistry there. Stefan Diggs limited. You question the chemistry since this is the first time they're playing alongside each other. So Kaishan Bhuti having that chemistry with Drake May means something and as Giardi mentioned the circle of trust, the circle of trust means something. An old Bobby DeNiro, the circle of trust for a quarterback. When I'm going into a battle,

Starting point is 00:03:35 when I'm going against a defense that is going to be tough on me and I've got to trust my guys to make plays, I've got to walk out of that field and I want the guys that I truly believe have my back out there with me. And Booty, if you look at him compared to some others, K'shaun Booty would have more chemistry and more of that trust from Drake May. And if K'shaun Booty makes this roster, of course, that means he might end up bumping one of those rookies from 2024 season. Jalen Polk could be gone. Jayvon Baker could be gone. Both of those guys could go.

Starting point is 00:04:15 If Booty makes this roster, I would say it's likely that one of Polk or Baker is going to be out of here, no longer a New England patriot. And so we look at Kaishan Booty and we look at Polk and Baker. And obviously, right now, you would give the edge to Booty. Another interesting thing about the wide receiver room is that we found out Jalen Polk has been banged up, shoulder injury, shoulder surgery, so he's not been out there. And meanwhile, you've got Pop Douglas lining up not only playing the inside slot position,

Starting point is 00:04:52 but Pop has also been getting reps on the outside. And that part is interesting given Pokes status right now, because that's opened the door to the FD and Chisholm talk. If Pop Douglas is going to play at least some outside and he's not going to be restricted to the slot wide receiver position. If he's going to be moving around more than we thought he was going to move around, that opens the door for Chisholm to take a spot in the slot. And you really look at Chisholm versus Jalen poke because pokes, a guy that you

Starting point is 00:05:22 think could move around, but in the best of worlds he's playing inside for you. And you can't have all your guys playing inside. You need some of that versatility. So you could be looking at this really coming down to Eftin Chisholm and Jalen Polk. Right now you'd have to lean towards Baker being off this roster booty on the roster. So this battle, all 12 of these receivers, we're going to talk about an awful lot over the next couple of months.

Starting point is 00:05:53 It could really come down to Chisholm versus poke. And what is compelling about that is you've got the guy with the pedigree, you've got the guy that was drafted in the second round last year. Explosive offense at Washington. I thought that Jalen Polk was going to be an immediate contributor to this offense last year. I was obviously wrong, but you've got a second round pick from 2024 going possibly mono a mono for a roster spot with somebody who is an undrafted free agent, UDFA versus a second round pick. And this is not a second round pick that busted out of the league already. Yes, he had a bust of a rookie season, but a lot of rookies struggle in their first

Starting point is 00:06:39 year and then they have a little bit of a bounce back in year two. Now, not many guys can do what poke did or didn't do in his rookie season and bit of a bounce back in year two. Now, not many guys can do what Polk did or didn't do in his rookie season and make a big enough leap in year two to be a consistent contributor. But still, you don't just throw away second round picks in year two. Second round picks have to prove to you that they have almost zero chance of bouncing back

Starting point is 00:07:01 to be cut in their sophomore season. So it's gonna be very, very interesting to watch this play out. It could be Chisholm versus poke, UDFA versus second round pick is poke healthy. And if you're the Patriots, do you feel like you might be able to sneak one of those two guys onto the practice squad? I would think it's unlikely that you could sneak poke onto the practice squad because again, he was a second round pick and a team might just take a shot on him just based off his pick slot from 2024. So I think it'd be difficult to get poke to the practice squad. Chisholm, you might be able to get F'd in Chisholm to the practice squad. And that means something because if this Patriots front office

Starting point is 00:07:46 and this coaching staff feels like Chisholm and Polk are very close to each other, let's say that's the hypothetical, let's say that's the premise. And Chisholm and Polk are pretty close to each other during training camp, you might keep Polk even though Chisholm might've been slightly better because you think you can get Chisholm to the practice squad

Starting point is 00:08:04 based off of him being an undrafted free agent. And then you get to Kendrick Bourne. And I think Kendrick Bourne can be a significant contributor to this football team. You go back to 2021 and what he did with Josh McDaniels. He could be a contributor early and often for this offense. But where does Kendrick Bourne fit? Does he fit? If you were going to play him on the inside, now you've got to look at Stefan Diggs, who was terrific in Houston, playing in the slot. I would have to imagine Diggs is going to

Starting point is 00:08:36 play some football out of that slot. And then you look at Pop Douglas playing inside, playing outside. Then you look at Chisholm playing inside. I don't think he's going to play outside. So if Kendrick Bourne's fit is playing on the inside, he has to leapfrog a couple of guys. He's got to prove he's better than Pop Douglas, Chisholm. I don't think he has to prove himself to be better than Stefan Diggs because Diggs is on this roster. But Kendrick Bourne now is also in that mix, and you might be able to make it a three way match a la WWE between Chisholm, Poke, and Bourne. And if Kendrick Bourne's not gonna play the inside a lot, and

Starting point is 00:09:16 you think he might be able to play the outside for you, now he's battling against someone like Mac Collins who you signed. He's battling against Pop Douglas and some of the snaps he's getting at that outside wide receiver position. And he's also battling Kyle Williams who you just spent a top 70 pick on going back in late April. So this is all going to be a compelling watch. This wide receiver room, who falls into what position?

Starting point is 00:09:44 I would say digs and pop Douglas and Kyle Williams and Matt Collins are your four locks right now and then you've got everybody else fighting for two spots is it going to be poke is it going to be chism is it going to be booty is it going to be born interesting stuff all right big expectations for big mic in 2025 that's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

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Starting point is 00:11:11 wins. Open the FanDuel app today visit fanduel.com locked on to get started. Big Mike Owenu very critical piece for this football team. A critical piece and Owenu needs to return to form. He needs to look like the guy he looked back in 2023 when he looked like he did in 2022. We do not want to see the 2024 version of Mike Owenu pop up again here in 2025. When you at last year Mike Owen who his pro football focus grades his run blocking grade was 95th in the league 95th in the league his past blocking grade was much better He was 31st in the league but overall Mike Owen who finished as the 51st

Starting point is 00:12:01 graded guard in football, according to PFF. Now, pro football focus also looks at a when you and what he might bring to the table in 2025. And they rank him as the 17th overall guard in football, which would mean Michael when it would put together a pretty good season if he was a top 20 guy at the position, of course, you're paying him like he's a top five or six guy, and that's what you would love to see. You would love to see him step up and look like a top 10 guard. Pro football focus says they've got him at 17.

Starting point is 00:12:36 I've got high expectations from Mike Owendow this year for a number of different reasons. Let's just start with the fit. His fit with Josh McDaniels, his fit within this offense should be a much, much better fit than it was last year with Alex Van Pelt and company. But when it was one of the guys that we would question, could he fit with the West Coast offense? Usually you see, you know, slider, more athletic type offensive lineman with the kind of offense that AVP was trying to run a year ago. Well, now you bring back Josh McDaniels in a when who fits perfectly for what Mc

Starting point is 00:13:15 Daniels loves to do. He loves to run the football downhill. He loves the duo concepts. That is Michael when it was wheelhouse now, we also understand that McDaniels could run some more zone run than we've seen him run in prior seasons as the Patriots offensive coordinator, but I still feel like the bread and butter will be that downhill run game with the duo blocking concepts. The other reason why I have high expectations for a Wenu

Starting point is 00:13:42 this year is that he's going to stick to right guard. One of the things that drove me crazy over the past couple of years with this Patriots team was how they handled the WENU. They would flip him from guard to tackle, from tackle to guard, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I don't think that was fair to the player. I don't think that he could meet or exceed expectations at right guard, given that he was wondering, am I going to play tackle next week? Now I know that Awenu would tell all of us and he would say to the media that that really

Starting point is 00:14:18 didn't bother him. He wasn't too worried about it. He's just going to go out there and play. But that has to mess with you. That has to mess with your psyche, with your mentality as you're going out there, your flip-flopping positions. You can't get comfortable in one spot and just do your best in that spot. And we all know that Awenu is a better guard than he is tackle. So this year, this year with Morgan Moses and Kaden Wallace and Vidarian Lowe and Will Campbell, this year, Owenu should stick at right guard.

Starting point is 00:14:51 He's been there throughout OTAs. He's been there throughout mandatory mini camp. Now he has been limited due to a hand issue, a hand injury, but it sounds like he's on his way back. And I would expect him to be your day one right guard and I don't think that they will move him around and when you look at a whenu when he's been able to to play at right guard you look at some of his numbers and he's been really good I'll give you an example pro football focus wrote this about a whenu when lined up at guard over the past three seasons, Owen who has generated a 77.9 pass blocking grade.

Starting point is 00:15:29 That is the fifth highest mark among qualified guards over that span. Michael Wenu has been the fifth best pass blocking guard in football over the last three seasons, according to PFF, when he has been at right guard. He's been one of the best, one of the best in pass protection. It's when he goes to tackle and his grade suffers a little bit that causes that wavering. But if we have a Wenu at right guard from day one throughout camp, throughout the joint practices, we get to the season week one of when it was out there at right guard.

Starting point is 00:16:07 I think he's going to do a very, very good job because that's what he's done for the most part when he's been able to be comfortable with his situation and going out there and playing his natural position. I also think the coaching staff, Doug Morrone, Jason Hotaling, Robert Kugler, I think you've got three good to very good offensive line coaches. That should help Awenu. And I would just have to imagine that Awenu, he's going to be carrying a lot of pride into 2025 because of what happened in 2024. He can't be happy with that. He signed that contract. what happened in 2024. He can't be happy with that. He signed that contract. He knows what the expectations were. And he just was not good enough at certain points last year. He's

Starting point is 00:16:53 got to be better. He knows that I know it, you know it. And the importance of Mike Owenu, it cannot be overstated. Because if we're looking at this offensive line, one of the questions we have is on the interior, The interior offensive line and whether or not they'll be able to pass protect at a high level. Garrett Bradbury, as we know, he's had all sorts of issues in pass protection. He was one of the worst last year at his position protecting the quarterback. So you've got the sensor questions when it comes to pass protection. Left guard, we don't even know who's going to be playing left guard until we find that out.

Starting point is 00:17:29 That's going to be a question if that guy is going to be able to protect Drake May well enough. So you have these interior offensive line pass protection questions. To have Mike Awenu be at right guard week in and week out, that should help you tremendously. At least you have one of those three spots filled adequately and you feel pretty good about it. You also want a Wenu at right guard because let's not forget Morgan Moses is 34, 35 years old. He's coming off one of his toughest seasons and you want some stability on that right side of the line and a when who can be that you need that anchor and I think a when who can be the anchor on that right side and he can be one

Starting point is 00:18:13 of the anchors of this offensive line you certainly hope that will Campbell is another anchor at left tackle in one more thing about a when who and why I think he's going to be a critical piece and he's going to be good this season. One more thing about him, his contractual status. Now I know he just signed that extension last off season, but here's the thing. It was a three year deal and the Patriots actually have an out on his contract. This season is over. The Patriots can get out of Michael Wen, whose contract they can get rid of them.

Starting point is 00:18:44 And it's only a seven and a half million dollar dead cap hit. So if a Wenu wants long term security, he needs to play good football. And if he goes out there and he plays that good football at right guard and gives his team consistency and plays like a top 10 guy at his his position Then the Patriots are not going to cut him after this season and as a matter of fact the Patriots might want to rework his deal and Get him done for a long-term extension. He turns 28 years old in December. So it is More than possible a when who puts together a good season He goes out there and plays his best

Starting point is 00:19:25 football. The Patriots with that out in his contract, that might open the door for them to go to Awenu and say, let's work on something more long term, because you are our right guard of the future. We still feel you've got five, six, seven good years left. Let's get something done, because you proved yourself more than worthy this year. So I think Awenu is in line for a big season. He's got to stay healthy. But there are plenty of things about the 2025 season that make me feel that Awenu can step

Starting point is 00:19:57 up and step up big. And this Patriots team, they absolutely need it. They need all the good O-line play that they can get to help Drake May. So Michael Wynneau, interesting, interesting player on this roster for 2025. The Pats have something when you look at interesting decisions, they got some of those to make that safety as we get ready for camp. That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Safety play in 2024 was a huge issue. The back end has to be much better in 2025. When we think about last season with Gerard Mayo and that defense and how they fell well short

Starting point is 00:20:46 of expectations, a big part of it was giving up gigantic plays in that secondary. Lack of communication. How many times did we see in the red zone? Lack of communication between cornerbacks and safeties, guys blowing coverage inside at the 10 yard line. We saw that so many times last year. It made me sick.

Starting point is 00:21:06 And so the safeties have to be better this season for this defense to play better. They need the safeties to play better. So let's look at that position right now. As we get ready for training camp, we are one month away. You've got Kyle Dugger, you've got Jabril Peppers, you've got Marcus Epps, you've got Craig Woodson. You've got Jalen Hawkins. You've got Dell Pettis So by my account you got six guys. I would not put Brennan Schooler in the safety room anymore That was an experiment last year. He he did as well as you could hope Given the circumstances, but I don't think we're gonna see a lot of Brennan Schooler running around in that secondary in 2025 so Duggar Peppers Eson, Hawkins, Pettis.

Starting point is 00:21:47 Those are your six guys. Let me start with Kyle Duggar. And it's a very simple question. Is he healthy? Last year he was not healthy. And it absolutely made his season a disaster, which we'll get to in a minute. But he has to be healthy. He played through injury last year, wasn't nearly the same guy, had the tightrope surgery to the ankle once the season was over, and now we wonder, can Duggar have a bounce back season? Last year, the numbers, as I mentioned, they were terrible.

Starting point is 00:22:24 His coverage grade was 164th according to Pro Football Focus. bounce back season. Last year the numbers as I mentioned, they were terrible. His coverage grade was 164th according to Pro Football Focus, 164th among safeties last year. His grade was 34.8 in coverage and the eye test would tell you that. He was downright brutal in coverage. His run defense though, that was also really, really bad. Usually, if you see Dougher struggle in coverage, it's not necessarily stunning, but to see him struggle in not only coverage, but also run defense, again, that tells you about the injury. He

Starting point is 00:22:58 was not fully capable of getting downhill and making those one-on-one tackles. His pro football focus grade run defense wise was 133rd. He was literally one of the worst safeties in football last year. His overall grade was 158th. So that's not hyperbolic to say that he was literally one of the worst at his position in 2024. And I think a lot of that again had to do with the injury.

Starting point is 00:23:24 I'm not telling you that Kyle Duggar is a top three safety top five, but he is certainly better than the player we saw last year. And so can he get back? Because he really hasn't been involved in the OTAs mandatory mini camp. When we get the training camp in a month, is Duggar going to be out there? Is he going to be taking reps? Is he going to be taking reps? Is he going to look like the same guy? Just as I mentioned about Michael Wenu's contract, it's interesting because Kyle Dugger also has an out after the 2025 season. The Patriots can cut Dougher and it would cost them $9 million of dead cat money. But that contractual

Starting point is 00:24:03 out just like it's there for a Wenu, is there for Duggar. So this is a big season for Duggar. He knows what happened last year. He knows he has to show that he is capable of being a good safety in this league to survive on this roster. He understands the contractual ramifications if he has another season as bad as last seasons or if he doesn't show that he can bounce back if he's laboring with that ankle all throughout the season. He's 29 years old. We got to remember that Duggar, he was drafted as an older prospect.

Starting point is 00:24:39 And so he's 29. This is a huge year for Duggar Can the Patriots rely on him? We'll see and Then you got to ask whether or not you can play Jabril Peppers and Duggar together now. I know we saw that in 2023 But with this defense Mike Vrabel Terrell Williams secondary coaches with this defense in particular Does Vrabel think that you can play both guys is that the plan to play both guys I Would think so because they haven't cut either one of them there hasn't been any trade talk now Maybe they want to just get dugger back on the field and then you might hear about some trade talk or this guy's Challenging that guy and maybe they got to get rid of one of those two but if they feel like they can play Peppers and Duggar together, and I would say Peppers

Starting point is 00:25:28 is more the coverage guy out of the two, and you would play Duggar closer to the line of scrimmage because Duggar again, he has struggled mightily in coverage in stretches of his career and last year was really bad. But you've got Peppers who turns 30 in October. So Duggar's 29. Peppers is going to be 30 in October. And just like stop me if you've heard this before. Jabril Peppers, just like Michael Wenu and just like Kyle Duggar, he has an out in his contract. The Patriots can cut Peppers after the 2025 season and it will only cost the Patriots $3 million in dead cap money. So they can easily move on from

Starting point is 00:26:13 Peppers after this season if that's what they want to do. Peppers knows that. So I think you've got, we talked about a Wenu, you know, having a lot of pride in the job that he does and he's got to be much better this season. And if he wants some long-term security, if he wants to stay here in New England, he's going to have to play well because he's got that out coming up. Same could be said for Duggar and Peppers. And it's going to be interesting to see how that unfolds. Will the pressure get the better of them? Will they step up because of that pressure? Will Peppers and Duggar prove that they can play alongside each other in this defense and they can play alongside each other effectively? I've got some pretty big expectations for Peppers because I think he is a perfect fit for this variable defense. And I think

Starting point is 00:27:01 his mentality is exactly what variable and Williams want from their defensive players. Duggar, I'm not totally sold on. I got to see him out there playing. And then the other thing we look at in this safety room is who is going to play free safety? Is Pepper's going to play some of that role? Are you going to have both Duggar and Pepperppers closer to the line of scrimmage? Are they going to split some reps?

Starting point is 00:27:27 One playing on the back end, one playing closer to the line of scrimmage? If you're not going to go with one of those two guys playing a decent amount at free safety, then you've got to look at some of the other dudes in this room. Craig Woodson, your fourth round pick. He had a really good OTA, he had a really good mandatory minicamp. Everything that I've read, pretty high on Craig Woodson. Looked like he was very comfortable in this defense. So is Woodson going to be your free safety? Marcus Epps, who you signed to a one-year deal, he's coming off an ACL injury and surgery. Is he going to play free safety? That battle to me

Starting point is 00:28:03 is Woodson versus Epps. Maybe Del Pettis gets involved, but I think you're looking at Peppers and Dugger as your main two guys. You see if they can work alongside each other in this defense if when Dugger gets back physically. And then you've got that next level of Woodson versus Epps for free safety. Del Pettis right on the outside looking in, maybe he gets involved with some reps as well. Now you wonder how many safeties will the Patriots carry in 2025. They carried five of them last year. But remember, you could play some games with Brendan Schuyler.

Starting point is 00:28:40 Will they carry four? Will they carry four? Will they carry five? If they carry four, I think Hawkins is out and I think it's likely going to be Pettis out. Maybe try to slide Pettis to the practice squad. If they carry five, Jaylen Hawkins is out and I think you have Peppers, Dugger, Woodson, Epps, and Pettis Azure 5. And I think Woodson is going to win this job. I think he's going to end up leapfrogging Marcus Epps if he hasn't done so already.

Starting point is 00:29:14 And the main rotation you'll see is going to be Duggar, Peppers, and then Woodson floating in and out. I think you're going to see a lot of that this year. All right. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C radio. Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel and don't forget to hit that like button and subscribe as well here on YouTube. And thank you for making Lockdown Patriots your first listen today. For your second listen,

Starting point is 00:29:37 check out Lockdown NFL scouting. Hosts Kyle Krabs and Joe Marino will make you the most informed NFL fan this off season. Find Locked On NFL scouting on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Have a great day and we'll see you on Wednesday.

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Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Reset: Patriots Wide Receiver Depth Chart | Mike Onwenu Bounce Back?

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