Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Revealed: Mike Vrabel Signals Patriots Draft Strategy | A.J. Brown Trade Talk

Starting point is 00:00:00 Mike Vrable made something very clear on Tuesday. He's not a direct disciple of Bill Belichick when it comes to the draft. This is Lockdown Patriots. You are Locked-on Patriots. Your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. What's happening? I am your host, Nick Cattels.

Starting point is 00:00:30 Mike Vrable makes a significant statement about Christian Gonzalez's future. In the second segment, Vrable makes it known that he would not fear trading for A.J. Brown. But first, the H.C. of the NEP is set to attack this draft differently than a certain predecessor. Now, before we get into what Mike Vrable had to say on Tuesday in Arizona at the owner's meetings, I want to make sure all of you know, we're going to do the mailbag, but we're going to kick the mailback to later in the week so we can address Vrable's media scrum. So we will get to the mailbag, just not on today's episode. It's a fascinating draft for the Patriots.

Starting point is 00:01:09 I mean, you think about the urgent needs they have. Defensive N, an alpha wide receiver in a perfect world, X boundary type guy. And then you have your secondary needs, which are important needs, but not necessarily urgent right now, need it by tonight, tomorrow. And we're talking offensive tackle, somebody who can play on the right side. we're talking about a tight end in some other positions. Selecting at number 31 is also pretty difficult because it makes everything so unpredictable. You have no idea. When you have 30 picks ahead of your first pick, you have no idea how the board is going to fall.

Starting point is 00:01:49 Think about last year. Think about the year before. Drake May had a pretty good idea that May would be there at three. We had a really good idea that Will Campbell would be there at four last season. This year, completely different scenario. And so I think it's interesting as Mike Vrable sat down with the media on Tuesday to discuss what he had to say about the team's draft philosophy. Phil Perry quoted Mike Vrable saying, quote, I don't think you ever want to draft for need, unquote. Specifically about the 31st pick, Doug Kai transcribing Vrable, quote, best player available.

Starting point is 00:02:26 Hopefully, maybe we trade up. maybe we trade out unquote now let's just look at this at its foundation it is easier for the patriots to go best player available in this draft because of how the needs are in the depth at those positions in this specific draft we've talked about this we were on this day one we talked about this right after the super bowl and then elliot wolf mike rable others echoed the same thought when they got to the combine. I remember right after the Super Bowl talking about it on this podcast, the positions of depth in this draft just so happened to be the positions where the Patriots have needs.

Starting point is 00:03:10 You look at defensive end, very deep at defensive end. You can go second round, third round. You might even be able to get a good, if not really good defensive end player in the fourth round. You look at wide receiver. You can even break that down to X, boundary receiver. There are a number of dudes that are likely going to be there at the end of the first round, but also a number of guys that can go in the second round, the third round. Malachi

Starting point is 00:03:37 field is a perfect example. Is he going to go in the first round? No. Is he going to go in the second round? Probably not. Could you draft a Malachi Fields in the third round? Yes. Could he be productive for you in year one? Yes, he could. And there's just a bunch of other names I could throw out there, but just the idea, the idea that defensive end is pretty darn deep. The idea that X boundary wide receiver is pretty darn deep. You could talk about tight end. Tight end, that depth in this draft goes on for days. Yes, Kenyon Sadiq is going to be the number one guy off the board.

Starting point is 00:04:13 And then you're going to have a big drop off from him. But once you get to the middle, late second round, through the fourth and maybe even fifth round, you have a bunch of tight ends that are sitting there. Interior offensive lineman, pretty good draft for that position. So if you're the Patriots and you have those types of needs, edge and wide receiver and tight end and interior offensive line, because those positions are so deep in this draft, that will allow you theoretically to take the best player available. Just think about what we did on our first mock draft.

Starting point is 00:04:46 I talked about going back a week or two ago how drafting a tackle at 31 was not necessarily a bad idea. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it wasn't a bad idea. And then we get into the mock draft and how the draft board fell and how certain positions would be there in the second round when you're looking at tackle, not so much at 31. If you pass up on a guy there, can you find a tackle that you actually trust that you're confident in if you wait until the second round? Definitely not the third round. You're talking developmental. So even in our own mock draft, the way the draft board fell and the idea that, hey, you're going to trade for A.J. Brown, which was part of our thought process, you drafted BPA. Best player available in our mock draft was Blake Miller, sitting there from

Starting point is 00:05:33 Clemson, right tackle. We scooped him up. Secondly, reaching for a need. Reaching for a need is not what you want to do. And this flies in the face of what we saw from Bill Belichick, especially in the later years. When you think about Belichick and you just have to highlight the offensive line and how he handled the guard position, right? You had Joe Tuny, you had Shaq Mason, two questionable decisions to let those guys go, and then you find yourself reaching in the first round for Cole Strange. When you reach for a position,

Starting point is 00:06:06 especially when you're talking about in the first round, that's when you make a mistake. That's when you could make a critical mistake. Don't reach. Do not reach, even if you feel like it's a borderline, desperate need. You cannot reach. That's when you swing and miss.

Starting point is 00:06:25 And there's other examples, the Joanne Williams example of trying to pick a player who is a particular fit for your specific defense, earlier than other teams would have drafted that guy because you thought he was the prototype with a very specific set of skills that would lend itself well to your defense. And you end up swinging and missing on that pick. So do not reach for need. If you're sitting there and you have somebody who is rated so far above and beyond what that need guy is rated, then you draft the other dude. If you're looking at our mock draft example, if you're looking at Blake Miller, who was, I think he was around 25 BPA, according to pro football focus, you're sitting there at 31. You can get the 25th ranked player on your board at 31 versus drafting a receiver who might be 37, 38, 39th on your board,

Starting point is 00:07:16 given the depth of those positions, you take the tackle. And so it just makes a lot of sense. As far as trading up, trading out, trading up also makes sense because the Patriots have 11 picks in this draft. It doesn't necessarily have to be the first round. You might trade up in the second. You might trade up in the third. You have two forts.

Starting point is 00:07:39 Maybe you use one of those forts like we did in our mock draft to move up in the second to draft a guy that you have in your cross. hears. So the idea of moving up makes a ton of sense. And moving out of 31, we all know the scenario. We all know the scenario that we probably have drawn up in our minds. That makes a lot of sense to us and probably Vrable. Let's say there's a quarterback needy team that wants to move up to the end of the first round because they want that 50 year option on the first round pick, which you don't get in the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh. So you want that extra year. You want that option because of the quarterback position being so critical to the operation.

Starting point is 00:08:21 Maybe a team is hungry. Maybe a team wants to move up to 31 to draft that quarterback. Maybe that quarterback is Ty Simpson. That's a scenario that I could see play out. I could see the Patriots trading out of 31, sliding back a few picks to the top of the first round for one of those quarterback needy teams to move up to the late first round to draft a quarterback that they think could be their franchise guy. But what Mike Vrabel said about draft philosophy, how to approach it, especially given this draft, I totally get it.

Starting point is 00:08:55 And I get it even more now after doing the mock draft that I did than I might have gotten it two weeks ago, three weeks ago. Coming up, Frable discusses A.J. Brown's ego and how much would be too much to give up in a deal for the Philadelphia wide receiver. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Now the number one sports podcast network, your team every day. What if sports were traded like markets? Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robin Hood prediction markets. It's not you against the house. It's you participating in a live market.

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Starting point is 00:10:55 How do you feel about what Mike Rable had to say about the team's draft philosophy? We're just about three weeks away from the draft. Want to know your thoughts. Don't forget to throw a comment in. And also don't forget to subscribe. There is no other position that captures the imagination in New England like wide receiver. There have been so many swings and misses at that position. It makes you want to pull your hair out, move some furniture, scream.

Starting point is 00:11:21 to the clouds. It is. It is mind-numbing how many guys were drafted at that position that were just misses. And then we also think about Stefan Diggs in 2025, a legitimate, bona fide number one receiver in past years in the NFL, close to being a number one last year for the Patriots, frankly, with what they needed from him. And we saw how much of a difference a player like that at that position can make in the most crucial times. Now, of course, we've gone, through the dig stuff, up and down season, faded late, but just the idea of that receiver, the molding of that kind of receiver and what that guy can do for not only your offense, your team, but especially your quarterback. So Mike Vrable, of course,

Starting point is 00:12:06 sitting down with the media on Tuesday, he was going to be asked about A.J. Brown and those conversations and what's been going on. Mark Daniels on Mike Vrable discussing Brown. Quote, we've talked about this since last January. We're going to going to try to do everything we can to strengthen our roster through the draft. Now, he's not saying they've been talking about A.J. Brown and talking with the Eagles since last January. He's talking about the general idea of improving the football team. So back to Vrable. Quote, we're going to try to do everything we can to strengthen our roster through the draft, through free agency, multiple ways of player acquisition. So anything that we can continue to do to strengthen the roster, we're going

Starting point is 00:12:47 to try to do, unquote. Clearly, clearly, this is Vrable saying, yes, we would trade for A.J. Brown. Now, he's not going to use his particular name. He's not going to talk about the negotiations because that could get a little bit weird, right? And that could cause some issues within the NFL. So the way that Vrable answers this question, it is obvious. Yeah, we want to improve the football team. And anything that would improve the football team, we're interested in doing. Acquiring A.J. Brown, no matter if you think he's, you know, exactly the guy he was three years ago, which I don't, or you think he's, you know, could be 80 to 85% of what he was, which I do, no matter what, he's an upgrade in your wide receiver room. So it's clear the Patriots would

Starting point is 00:13:33 trade for Brown. It's also clear that the Patriots have discussed A.J. Brown with the Eagles. That much is obvious. I mean, Elliot Wolf with Up and Adams, said that he has not spoken to Howie Roseman in quite a bit about A.J. Brown. What's that tell us? They have spoken about AJ Brown. The bunch of reports from insiders tell us these conversations have happened. The Patriots know what we know. Vrable knows what we know. The Patriots need to get Drake May an alpha. Does it happen? I don't know. But they understand that this team is better. This offense is better. Their quarterback is better if they could acquire a player like that. Now, as far as Mike Vrable dealing with A.J. Brown and Brown's desire for more targets and, you know, desire to be more involved in the offense.

Starting point is 00:14:23 Again, this is from Mark Daniels transcribing, quote, we all understand in professional sports, players that are talented and get to this level have some sort of ego to them. There's a balance. They have to have that edge. I think as a coaching staff and whatever that is, you have to balance that edge to make sure that that's helping the team. Everybody wants to excel. That's how this league goes. There's a balance between their own personal success and their mindset and how they can help the team, unquote. Vrable knows the game at receiver man. Vrable understands that players have ego. Vrable has an ego.

Starting point is 00:15:01 The vast majority of professional athletes have egos. And many of them have ginormous egos. But I do think when we talk about A.J. Brown and his ego, there's a difference between, you know, keeping a top wide receiver involved with the offense versus forcing it to that receiver to make him happy to the detriment of the football team. And I don't think we'd see the latter. If A.J. Brown becomes a Patriot at some point, June, July, whatever, maybe draft weekend. If that ends up happening, I don't think the Patriots, are going to force feed the football to Brown, to the detriment of the offense, to the detriment of the team. Now, will they keep him involved? Yes, because that's what you should do.

Starting point is 00:15:51 When you have a really good receiver, you should try everything within your power to make sure that receiver feels like he is involved. That's simple stuff. Do you think Puka Nakua ever goes into a weekend thinking he's not involved? You can name any top receiver. Amon Rae St. Brown. You think he goes into a Lions game believing he's not involved?

Starting point is 00:16:17 Do you think Sean McVeigh and Mike McDaniel and Josh McDaniels and some of the best offensive coordinators in football? Do you think they go into each week's game plan thinking, how do we get our guy of the football? Of course. It's football 101. But there's a difference between that and force-feeding somebody. and I don't think A.J. Brown wants to be force-fed. Context matters.

Starting point is 00:16:41 Brown was frustrated with the offense in Philly. He should have been. The Eagles' offense was terrible. And you don't have to believe me when I say that. Just look at what the Eagles did. As soon as the season was over, the Eagles got rid of their offensive coordinator Kevin Petulow. The team made a statement. The team told us they thought the offense stunk. there were multiple Eagles offensive players who were not thrilled with what the Eagles were doing on a week-to-week basis, even quarter-to-quarter basis, half-to-half basis. So it's not like A.J. Brown was the one disgruntled dude who wasn't happy with what that offense was doing. The Eagles fired their OC. So we know not a lot of people were thrilled.

Starting point is 00:17:29 The team was frustrated. Brown was part of that team. Now, as far as what you would be willing to trade for A.J. Brown. What types of assets? Again, we go back to Mark Daniels of Mass Live, transcribing Vrable, talking about dealing future assets. Quote, I mean the compensation is compensation. You have to agree to something, and whether it's capital in this year's draft, however, you can come to an agreement with another team. I've never really looked at it as this year, next year, how good the draft is in three years. Just try to come to an agreement. If you make a you just want to try to come to an agreement that both teams feel like they're getting something that they, that everybody's happy, unquote.

Starting point is 00:18:14 Pretty simple translation here, breaking it down to its simplest form. As Ted DiBiase told us in the WWF, everybody's got a price, right? Everyone has their price. Now, the Eagles have their price that they've set for A.J. Brown. The Patriots certainly have a price tag in mind that they're willing to pay for A.J. Brown. And inevitably, it comes down to how badly do you want the guy? Because what Vrable is saying is, you know, whatever the compensation is going to be, the only thing that matters is if you want the guy.

Starting point is 00:18:51 If you want the guy and you're willing to pay the price, then you're going to get the guy. Because inevitably, you have to make that other team happy. If the Eagles are not happy, they're not trading Brown. So to split hairs about the compensation to Vrable, it's not really worth going bananas about because inevitably, if it's too much, the Patriots will just say no. If it's not enough, the Eagles will say no. You just have to come together and you've got to understand the nature of a negotiation. And so whether it's, you know, 2027 picks, 2028 picks, how badly do you want to

Starting point is 00:19:32 the guy because if you want the guy badly enough, you're going to end up finding a deal that works for each side. It's pretty much what the coach is saying. If you want a player bad enough, you'll come to an agreement. Now, most coaches think now, right? They think now a lot. They think short term, not long term. The way Vrable has spoken to the media, some of the things that he said about, you know, building this team, I don't think Vrable views it that way. I don't think he looks at it and says, you know, oh, I'm willing to give up 2027 picks or 2028 picks because who cares? We're gunning for 2026. That would fly in the face of everything they've done since the trading deadline of last season. So I think Vrable will be measured, but ultimately, if you want

Starting point is 00:20:20 the dude, you've got to trade what it takes to get the dude. So I think that's the point. one wide receiver's roster spot might be safer than we thought. And Mike Rable's thoughts on a possible Christian Gonzalez extension. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. All right. So my take all along, and don't forget, like, comment, and subscribe. My take all along since the end of the season has been that Pop Douglas doesn't fit Josh McDaniel's offense.

Starting point is 00:20:57 He's not great at finding the soft spots in the zone, which Evan Lazzar has pointed out. He's not necessarily a good blocker because of his size, his frame, which I have brought up. It doesn't seem like Drake May is super confident or comfortable in throwing a lot to smaller receivers. Now, that could just be a perception thing, but it certainly feels like May is much more comfortable throwing to guys who are six feet, six feet plus. But Mike Vrable had some fascinating comments in Phoenix, if it is Phoenix, it's definitely Arizona, in Arizona about Pop Douglas. Maybe I have it wrong. Maybe a lot of us have it wrong because Vrable said this on Pop, according to Mark Daniels.

Starting point is 00:21:45 Daniels posted, Vrable continues to mention DeMario Douglas as a player who they need to get more involved. Bill Perry transcribed Vrable talking about Pop. I think Pop is a player who's going to continue to grow and develop. We have to try to find ways to get him the ball. Hmm. We have to try to find ways to get him the ball. Sounds like Vrable wants Pop Douglas to be part of the program. Now, of course, he might be trying to sell other teams on Pop.

Starting point is 00:22:18 That could absolutely be part of this conversation. But let's just take Vrable at his word. Let's treat this as a genuine thought that the Patriots want to get Pop more involved. What do you do? Do you run more three wide receiver sets, four wide receiver sets? You go empty more often. Do you line up Pop Douglas on the outside when you want to run the ball and you say, hey, we're going to line up on the outside.

Starting point is 00:22:44 We'll just run inside because we have versatility with receivers. You could certainly do that. Maybe it's just coaching them up. Maybe Vrable feels like the issues in zone that Pop has had. That's just we got to coach them up. And if we coach him up the right way, he'll be better against zone coverage. I will say that Pop Douglas, he does give effort in the blocking game. And so maybe Vrable feels like if we continue to work with him on blocking in the run game,

Starting point is 00:23:18 he might be good enough to allow us to play him more. Absolutely a possibility here. But it is obvious. it's obvious that Vrabel thinks that the Patriots could have done a better job of getting DeMario Douglas involved in the offense last season. And it's obvious that he feels, from what he's telling us,

Starting point is 00:23:41 they could have, should have done a better job of getting pop more snaps. Vrable also spoke about the future of Christian Gonzalez. Now, we know what Robert Kraft had to say to the media. We mentioned that and talked about it on yesterday's podcast. but what did Vrable have to say about the corner? Evan Lizarre with the quote,

Starting point is 00:24:04 quote, we want to make sure that we draft extremely well and then we identify the guys that we want to keep with us and that have earned long-term extensions. Christian is certainly one of those players, but I can't comment on ongoing negotiations, unquote. I mean, this reads like Mike Vrable listens to the Lockdown Patriots podcast.

Starting point is 00:24:25 because when I was discussing Gonzales last week in the mailbag, I had said, if you're going to preach being a draft in development program, the very essence of that is that you draft the player, you develop the player well enough, that that player becomes a really good player, and then you extend that player. That is the draft in development philosophy.

Starting point is 00:24:54 draft them, develop them, keep them. And so if you're looking at Gonzalez, you drafted him in the first round, he fell to you. You make a great pick. He has been really good, his first couple of years, right? He's been really, really good. Well, now, what do you do? You keep them. At least that should be the plan, especially when you talk about cornerback, when you talk about

Starting point is 00:25:19 outside corner, a premier position in the league, outside pass, rusher, some interior pass rushers, quarterbacks, wide receiver ones, bonafire legit, wide receiver one alphas, cornerbacks, those are your top positions. Those are the positions that you're looking at saying, if we find a guy, we develop a guy, we got to keep that guy, Drake May, Christian Gonzalez. These are the types of players. These are the types of players that you want to keep. And I think it's a pretty significant.

Starting point is 00:25:53 and I would even say clear comment from Vable that the Patriots want Christian Gonzalez. They want him in New England for the long term. Now, I would imagine just with every other player, every other sport, and just like we talked about with A.J. Brown, you got to make it work. Much like you're focused on how much you're willing to give up Brown for Brown. and you have a certain price in mind, you have a certain price in mind for Gonzalez. Now, are you willing to wiggle a little bit?

Starting point is 00:26:31 I would hope. But as I mentioned on the podcast yesterday, if Gonzalez is going into these negotiations trying to get paid like other non-quarterbacks at the top of their market, and he's looking at $40 million a year, then we got some problems. Because I'm not doing that.

Starting point is 00:26:51 Christian Gonzalez is not the best corner in football. and I'm not going to pay him $7, $8 million more per season than the next cornerback makes. I think that would be insane business. I don't think you do that. That impacts everybody else in the locker room. We can't lose that idea. But as long as Gonzalez is being reasonable,

Starting point is 00:27:12 he falls into the cornerback market where he falls into the cornerback market. I mean, we really haven't heard anybody with the Patriots cast doubt. that Gonzalez is going to be in New England for the long term. Now, again, that doesn't guarantee it. But from Elliot Wolf to Robert Kraft to Mike Vrable, feels like everybody has been on the same page.

Starting point is 00:27:38 They want to keep Gonzalez with the Patriots. I'm optimistic it gets done. Again, guarantee? No. I don't guarantee much in life. But I'm optimistic it gets done. All right, that wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. Thank you for making us your first listen and for being an everydayer.

Starting point is 00:27:58 Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C Radio. Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. Hit that like button. Give us a thumbs up and subscribe to this podcast on YouTube. And if you never miss an episode, the Everydayer Club is built for you. Get Lockdown Patriots ad free plus members only Discord access and more. Hit the lockdownpatriots.com or check the link in the show notes to learn even more. Have an awesome, awesome day, and we will see you next time.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Revealed: Mike Vrabel Signals Patriots Draft Strategy | A.J. Brown Trade Talk

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