Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Scout’s Surprising Take On The Patriots | Who Could “Torpedo” Season?

Starting point is 00:00:00 An AFC scout is bullish on the Pats. That's where we start on this episode of Locked On Patriots. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I am Nick Cattles, your host born and raised in New England, your New England Patriots expert, host of the Everything Pats podcast, co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattles, and of course, a sports talk show host veteran.

Starting point is 00:00:37 On today's episode, a local writer has a significant question about the Pats O-line and a relative unknown could help solve a problem. But first, we talk expectations. We appreciate joining the show making us your first listen. And for being an everyday or the lockdown Patriots podcast is a proud partner of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. And as a reminder, we're going three days a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday until we get back to daily shows, five shows a week, starting on Monday, July 14th. An AFC scout is pumping the tires of the Pats.

Starting point is 00:01:14 Now I'm going to let you know how I feel. And if I agree with this AFC scout in just a minute, but first let me tell you what this scout had to say. This is from ESPN's latest story, NFL executives, scouts pick their favorite off season moves written by Jeremy Fowler. And at the end of this story, there are a couple of nuggets, a couple of notes.

Starting point is 00:01:37 And one of the notes has to do with the Patriots and the Patriots draft hall. Here's what an AFC scout said to Fowler, quote, I did not love their 2024 draft, but I thought they did great this year. Kyle Williams has a chance to be a real player. They haven't had an impact receiver there in a while. A lot of teams loved Trevion Henderson, and we were really high on Will Campbell. And here's the money quote at the very end, I don't think they are that far away.

Starting point is 00:02:10 So an AFC scout tells Jeremy Fowler of ESPN, they don't believe that the Patriots are that far away. How do I feel? I feel like the Patriots need to answer three or four significant questions before they become contenders. So whether or not the AFC scout would define that as far away, I don't know. But I still think this team has to answer three to four significant questions before

Starting point is 00:02:41 we can say that they should be considered contenders. Here's my first question and the most important question. You tell me how good Drake May is by 2026. If you can tell me how good he is by 2026, I would feel much better in telling you how far away the Patriots are to actually contending. Because the truth is this, you need good quarterback play to contend.

Starting point is 00:03:07 You need very good quarterback play to contend consistently. So as Drake may, when we get to 2026, is he above average? Cause I don't think anybody would argue the Patriots are a contending team in 2025. Don't get that twisted. So when we get to 2026, is May an above average quarterback? Is he an average quarterback? Is he a top 10 quarterback?

Starting point is 00:03:33 It's crucial. Look at the last two years in the NFL. Take the final four teams in each of the last two years. Let's begin in 2023. In 2023, the final four, so to speak, was Kansas City, Baltimore, San Francisco, and Detroit. And what I did was I went back and I looked through the pro football focus quarterback rankings for 2023. And I looked at where the quarterbacks were of those four teams. How were they ranked? the worst quarterback quote-unquote according to pro football focus in 2023 final four was Jared Goff of the Detroit Lions and he was ranked as the tenth best quarterback by

Starting point is 00:04:21 PFF that was the worst QB in the final four. The other three you might say Brock Purdy Nick. Yeah, Brock Purdy was the fifth ranked quarterback via pro football focus in 2023. Lamar Jackson was third. Patrick Mahomes was second. Then you go back to last year and you look at the final four last season. You had the Chiefs, you had the Bills, you had the Commanders, you had the Eagles. Now there is an outlier. There is one outlier in this conversation amongst the eight quarterbacks and that outlier, I'm pretty sure you know what I'm going to say, that outlier was Jalen Hertz. He was ranked 23rd. According to PFF

Starting point is 00:05:05 last year, the 23rd quarterback. But of course, we know Jalen Hertz had a lot going for him. He had AJ Brown, he had Devante Smith. He had Dallas Goddard. He had somebody by the name of Saquon Barkley, who put together one of the best seasons by a running back that we have ever seen. Jalen Hertz had a tremendous offensive line, arguably the best in the league. Philly's defense was terrific,

Starting point is 00:05:30 loaded with defensive line talent. So yes, there is one outlier. There's one quarterback listed throughout these eight teams I'm going to name that did not have a top 10 quarterback. It was Philly last year with Jalen Hertz. But then you look at Kansas city. My homes was ranked eighth by PFF.

Starting point is 00:05:51 Jayden Daniels was ranked fifth by PFF and Josh Allen was ranked third by PFF. So if you want to be a contending team, if you want to be a part of that final four, especially, especially if you want to do it at a consistent rate you best have a top 10 quarterback So where is Drake May by 2026? I will tell you what pro football focus thinks of May as we get ready for 2025 They have may rank as the 22nd quarterback in the league. I Think that's a little low, but that's where PFF has May. My second question is, what do we make of this offensive line?

Starting point is 00:06:32 Is this offensive line actually solidified? Can you get it to be solidified by 2026? Will Campbell left tackle? Now I think he could end up being an average to above average left tackle. I'm crossing my fingers. I'm hoping I'm praying to the football gods, but we don't know if Will Campbell is going to actually be good enough to play left tackle week in and week out for the next five, six, seven, 10 years. We don't know that just yet. How about left guard? We don't even know who's playing left guard just yet. Now the leader in the clubhouse is Cole Strange. Are you super confident that Cole Strange is going to be great?

Starting point is 00:07:10 Do you think he has locked down that spot? Not yet. Center, Garrett Bradbury, steady veteran, plenty of questions about him. Jared Wilson, who is supposed to be the next dude up, hasn't been on the practice field due to some kind of ailment. Is Wilson going to be out there by the time we see training camp? I don't know. The center feels solidified to you. Now right guard, I will say, Michael Awenu, I feel pretty good about that spot. I feel pretty good about Awenu even when we get to 2026.

Starting point is 00:07:44 But even Morgan Moses, right tackle. he's a little bit older, right? He's 34, 35 years old. PFF tells us that he declined last season with the Jets. Now of course he was also not healthy, could have been a big part of that. But the offensive line, so is Drake May good enough? Is the offensive line. So is Drake may good enough? Is the offensive line solidified? And then I'm going to actually combine two positions in my final question that needs to be answered. And

Starting point is 00:08:14 really, it should be the final two questions that need to be answered. Can the Patriots find a blue chip pass rushing defensive end? Does Keon way end up being that guy? Does Chase on end up building off what he did last year with the Raiders? Do they get the best of the best from Harold Landry? And could they bank on that in 2026? A pass rushing element. Now maybe you can get it from the inside with Milton Williams and Christian Barmore and say, we don't need the outside pass rusher. We have somebody like Chris Jones of Kansas City. And I could buy that argument. Let's see how Williams and Barmore play this year. You could talk me into believing that. How about wide receiver? Do you have a blue chip alpha at

Starting point is 00:08:55 wide receiver? Because right now on this roster, I don't think you do. I'm not talking, you know, quantity, I'm talking quality. So the Patriots need to answer three to four significant questions before I can sit here and feel pretty optimistic about them becoming a contender. They can answer some of them, but I'm not sure they're going to be able to answer all of them during this season. Fortunately, they'll have another off season free agency in the draft to address some of those things.

Starting point is 00:09:28 So they could be right on the precipice of contending by 2026. A local beat writer has an issue with a specific spot on the offensive line. That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. You ever check your bank account and wonder where did all my

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Starting point is 00:10:30 Take control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKDONNFL at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year. That's monarchmoney.com. The code is LOCKDONNFL for half off your first year. The 2025 roster compared to the 2024 roster on paper before we get ready to kick off in September, there's not nearly as many questions. I think you can say unequivocally that the 2025 roster is better than the 2024 roster. I don't

Starting point is 00:11:06 think that's debatable. I don't think it's a hot take to say. But it's all on paper. And it doesn't mean even though we can say the 25 roster is better on paper than the 24 roster, it doesn't mean questions don't still exist. And there is one big question, or at least one of the big questions pre training camp and that is sensor. Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal, my buddy, Greg Bedard Patriots podcast wrote this recently. If there was one position that I thought could torpedo the season, torpedo the season, it would be center with a caveat. I just don't know how good Garrett Bradbury is. Impossible to tell in shorts. In the practices, he was about

Starting point is 00:11:52 what I figured watching some of his tape. He's a small tryhard player who seems smart enough. I just don't know if he's big enough to handle the mammoth defensive lineman that now dot the league. We don't know what Bradbury's going to look like in 2025 and we should not judge off what he looked like in OTAs and mandatory mini camp. He's a veteran. We want to see what he looks like in camp. We want to see what he looks like during these joint practices. However, we can certainly look at what Bradbury did in 2024 However, we can certainly look at what Bradbury did in 2024 when the games counted when he was the starting center for the Vikings. And so let's look at the PFF grading system for Bradbury.

Starting point is 00:12:35 Last year, Bradbury was the 33rd best center in football. Last time I checked, there are 32 teams in the league. Now it had to do with this pass protection. I've mentioned this before. I'm just going to touch on it quickly so you in the league. Now, it had to do with his pass protection. I've mentioned this before. I'm just going to touch on it quickly so you know the grade. Bradbury was 55th in pass block grade last year for PFF. He was 14th in run block grade. So overall, he wasn't very good.

Starting point is 00:13:01 And Bedard writes, in case you were wondering, Colestrange is not at center, at least not here talking about mandatory mini camp. And as I mentioned earlier, from all the things we've mentioned about left guard, Cole Strange right now seems to be the leader at left guard. So center, let's talk about it. Jared Wilson could obviously be pivotal for this team. There's no doubt. The question is, is he going to get healthy? Is he going to be out there? Because the more time that passes, the more questions you're going to have. If Wilson misses rookie mini camp, I think he was out there for a little bit of that. But if he

Starting point is 00:13:38 misses OTAs, if he misses mandatory mini camp like he did, then he's got to get back ASAP. Because if you start missing some camp time, that's when it's an issue. I mean, you're talking about a rookie offensive lineman. If he's missing time on the field all the way through late July, early August, that's very difficult to parachute in and actually take over for Bradbury. I don't think it's out of the question that Wilson could leapfrog him, but he's gotta get back soon. Wilson played one year at center for Georgia.

Starting point is 00:14:11 Played one year, it's the starting center for one year. And he didn't start playing football till late, so he's gotta get out there. Then you've got Ben Brown. Let's look at Ben Brown's PFF grades. If you didn't know, gonna help you out here, Ben Brown actually played, and this was more than I thought, Brown played 667 snaps last year,

Starting point is 00:14:31 which actually put him 27th in the NFL. So he played starting snaps, and it wasn't good. Run block grade, 38th. Pass block grade, 56th, even worse than Bradbury. The overall grade for Brown was 54th. So Ben Brown doesn't feel like a consistent answer. Bradbury has lots of questions circling around him. And you've got Jared Wilson, who missed OTAs and mandatory minicamp.

Starting point is 00:15:04 And we can't forget this. Bradbury was not the first option at center for the Patriots. He was not quote unquote their guy. They didn't necessarily go after him aggressively. They waited. Minnesota knew that he was out. Minnesota knew they were moving on, which means what? It means that he was available. Minnesota would have loved to trade Garrett Bradbury, even if it was like just for a seventh or sixth round pick. But the Patriots didn't pick up the phone.

Starting point is 00:15:34 They did not call Minnesota and ask if they could trade for Bradbury. They didn't offer that seventh round pick or sixth round pick. They didn't do that, which tells you they didn't necessarily feel the urgency to try to acquire Bradbury via trade. But he was not their first option. I don't know what option he was fourth, fifth, sixth. I don't know. What I can tell you is there were reports Andrew Callahan and others wrote right after

Starting point is 00:16:02 the combine that the Patriots would be looking for center help. That was the first indication that David Andrews might have some trouble making this roster. That report came out, others said it, watch out for the Patriots. They're gonna have conversations with free agents that are playing center. And they knew Bradbury was not going to be a free agent at that time, in the moment. So what centers did they look at? How many guys did they look at, at that position in free agency? And then they were unable to sign a center in free agency. Even knowing that, they decided not to try to trade a late pick lotto pick for Bradbury.

Starting point is 00:16:46 They waited for Bradbury to get cut by Minnesota. They gave Bradbury relatively small money, a lot of money for me, a lot of money for probably most of you, not a lot of money for a starting center in the NFL. I think he's going to make like three million guaranteed. So they didn't knock them over with money, which means not many teams were interested in him because they didn't have to overbid or go crazy. Now to be fair to the Patriots and Bradbury, of course you would need a center to be interested in him.

Starting point is 00:17:15 So I don't know how many teams were looking for a center at that point in free agency, to be fair. But you didn't have the urgency. You didn't go bananas. And then you went into the draft and what did you do? You spent a top 100 pick on Jared Wilson. And you would have likely drafted Wilson before 95th if he didn't have the opportunity to move down a couple times.

Starting point is 00:17:39 So that screams to us, it wasn't like the Patriots targeted Garrett Bradbury and said, that's our guy. And he's just about to turn 30 years old, I think in a couple of days. Tick tock, tick tock. And this is a critical spot. I mean, when we talk about center, critical spot to get right. The exchange with the quarterback, I can tell you being at camp last season, absolutely miserable time watching Drake May and Jacoby Brissette try to take snaps from the centers.

Starting point is 00:18:08 Antonio Mafi was out there, shotgun formation, he was chucking the football all over the place. He had no idea where it was going. It was a miserable experience for about a two-week stretch watching the Patriots try to execute the center quarterback exchange. It was miserable. You got to get that right. Center also helps the communication with the offensive line.

Starting point is 00:18:32 Now in Josh McDaniel's offense, quarterback has the brunt of the responsibility, but the center, of course, always helping out the other offensive linemen. That's one of the most pivotal roles of a center is to make sure everybody's on the same page. And the last thing you want to do is give pressure up the gut. There's no worst pressure for a quarterback to deal with than the pressure right in his face. We want May to be able to step up in that pocket confidently and deliver the football. And this means the guards got to step up. If it's Colestrange, step up. Michael Wenu, step up.

Starting point is 00:19:10 Because if your guard play is weak with the questions at center, the interior of your offensive line is going to be an issue. So let's hope Wilson gets back on the field by camp. Let's hope Bradbury looks better than he did last year and let the best man win. Ben Brown can hang out. Staying with the offensive line, a relative unknown could step up and answer a big question this camp. That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of Locked On Patriots, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.

Starting point is 00:19:52 Cole Strange right now, I've said this a couple times during the episode, but let me reset here for the segment. Cole Strange, sorry, messing up his last name. Cole Strange is the left guard leader right now in that clubhouse, in that dressing room, in that locker room. He is the leader to be the guy at left guard. But really, Strange is the leader right now by default. He's not the leader because he's shining during OTAs and mandatory minicamp. He's not the leader because he's outplaying all the other guys in this competition. No, no, no.

Starting point is 00:20:27 Cole Strange is the leader at left guard right now by default because Wes Schweitzer retired. He was the other guy that was splitting reps with Strange. Not only that, Strange is the number one left guard right now by default because Layden Robinson is tumbling down like an avalanche, tumbling down that depth chart of the Patriots. It doesn't look good for Layden right now. Maybe he figures it out. Maybe by training camp we feel much better

Starting point is 00:20:59 about it. But from what I have read Robinson, he's not winning many people over if anybody over on that coaching staff at that facility The city so is certainly somebody we keep an eye on he's been getting time at right guard with Michael when Oh being limited He played some tackle very early on in The first phases of camp, but city so is there the first phases of camp, but City So is there. We're not really sure how the coaching staff feels regarding City So, but I would take him seriously when we get to camp. Jared Wilson, again, not on the field. So Wilson not on the field. Schweitzer retires. Leydon Robinson's been bad. City So's been playing right guard for the most part. But can a relatively unknown player to all of us

Starting point is 00:21:49 actually make a difference? Could a relative unknown make this team? Could a relative unknown not only make the team but start for you at left guard? I'm talking about Tyrese Robinson. Now, Greg Bedard wrote that Robinson is a contender at left guard. We were wondering what was going on with Robinson because he wasn't at mandatory minicamp. According to Bedard, Robinson lost his sister, just absolutely brutal. His sister passed away. So Robinson was not at mini camp. But we get to training camp. Tyrese Robinson might have something to say about Cole's strange his grasp on that left guard spot, whether it's firm or not. So who is Tyrese Robinson? I thought it would be fun to kind of dig into Tyrese Robinson. We haven't

Starting point is 00:22:45 spent much time on him, of course. Who is he? What was college football background is NFL background? Who is this guy? So let's start with Robinson's college football background. He was eligible in 2022 to be drafted out of Oklahoma. And he ended up signing as an undrafted free agent. So Tyrese Robinson signed as a UDFA in 2022. And I went back and I found Dane Bruegler of the athletic. I went back and I found Bruegler's, uh, beast, the beast, where he breaks down all the players in the draft, right? I think he does like his top, I don't know, it's 300 players, something outrageous. But I went back to the 2022 beast.

Starting point is 00:23:35 Brugler had Robinson ranked as the 24th best guard in the draft. And he was designated as a free agent. Brugler puts ranges right where he thinks guys could get drafted. He had Tyrese Robinson as an undrafted free agent which is precisely what happened. Now here's the write-up from Bruegler. Robinson was considered one of the top 10 guard recruits in the country and committed to Oklahoma over Georgia, Michigan, Texas, and others. So this is a guy who was a four-star recruit, highly recruited, highly touted. He was seen as a top 10 dude at his position coming out

Starting point is 00:24:13 of high school. And he got offers from schools like Georgia and Michigan and Texas. If you think about those offensive lines. And he decided to go to Oklahoma. Now over his final three years in Norman, where Oklahoma is, Robinson started every single game. Bruegler writes, overall Robinson has the play strength to wall off defenders and put defenders in reverse with desire to finish. There's that word, finish, Mike Rabel, effort and finish. But here was the issue. Brugler wrote that Robinson's balance issues will be exacerbated against NFL competition. So he had some balance issues. Something else that's interesting about Robinson

Starting point is 00:24:56 when he was at Oklahoma is he was not only a guard. Robinson played right guard and he played right tackle. Now, when he got to the NFL and during the draft process, people had a lot of questions about if he had the frame, if he had the length, sound familiar with all the Will Campbell talk to be a tackle in the NFL. People feel like he's a guard, but he did play tackle at Oklahoma. So that's his college football background. What about the NFL?

Starting point is 00:25:25 Undrafteded as I said now he's been with Three NFL teams before getting to the Patriots. He was with Washington. He was with Philadelphia He was with Minnesota now Usually you would say if the Philadelphia Eagles are interested in you and you play the offensive line That's usually a good thing and I don't even care if you and you play the offensive line. That's usually a good thing. And I don't even care if you don't make the team. He's on the practice squad.

Starting point is 00:25:50 I don't care if the Eagles find some level of interest in you. That's a good thing. But of course he didn't stick with the Eagles. He ended up in Minnesota. Minnesota had their practice squad. Robinson was on it. That was the last roster that he was on before joining the Patriots. And here's the thing with Minnesota. Minnesota decided to overhaul a bunch of their offensive line and

Starting point is 00:26:16 their biggest issue. What Minnesota wanted to do was improve on the interior. They replaced all three left guard center right guard. They decided to replace all three guys and move on. So you would think, all right, what was Minnesota seeing if Minnesota wasn't too, you know, worried about Tyrese Robinson's protection eligibility. If they weren't worried about holding on to them as they were looking at their own offensive line having issues, it would tell you that Minnesota did not believe Tyrese Robinson was an answer to any of their own

Starting point is 00:26:55 line issues, even from a depth standpoint. Now the Vikings, if you see what they did during the offseason, they drafted Donovan Jackson who happened to be on my Patriots mock draft that I did. He went too early. He went in the 20s, but they drafted Donovan Jackson and they signed Will Fries and Ryan Kelly. Again, left guard, center, right guard. They reset the entire interior, but they didn't really show any urgency to hold on to Tyrese Robinson. Now we can look at some of his traits. We can look at some of the athleticism.

Starting point is 00:27:30 I've discussed this a lot. The Patriots obviously love athletic players. They've tried to add athleticism through the offensive line. Will Campbell is just a tremendous athlete. Robinson isn't. Tyrese Robinson is not a tremendous athlete. I use that relative athletic score all the time. Robinson's RAS was 3.06 out of 0 to 10 mark. So out of 10 Robinson finished with a 3.06 and at the time in 2022, that plays Robinson in 904th place out of 1301 guards.

Starting point is 00:28:11 From 1987 to 2022. So not a terrific athlete. But if Robinson makes his team, and if Robinson actually leapfrogs Col Cole Strange, let's play it out. If Robinson is the starting left guard week one, where's Cole Strange? Do you try to bump him in back at center if Bradbury's having issues and Wilson doesn't get healthy? All the stuff we talked about last segment, does the strange find his way? Does he creep back to center to get some reps?

Starting point is 00:28:45 I don't know. I do know that Mike Vrabel brought up Strange's versatility being critical for the team. So what happens with Strange? If Robinson is your starting left guard, what happens to Jared Wilson? Are the Patriots going to try Wilson at guard? I've heard that they want to.

Starting point is 00:29:04 I've heard that they're probably going to. But then you got to look back at Bradbury. Do you need Wilson at center? Or do you think you can coach up Ben Brown? And if Robinson Tyrese Robinson is your starting left guard is late in Robinson off the team. And already in the second year, he's gone. Talked about Jayvon Baker being well on the outside of the roster. You talked about two picks. And that third round to fifth round range that a year later, they're not with the team. So Tyrese Robinson, a name to keep in mind as we get closer to camp. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriotsots reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C radio Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel and don't forget to hit that like button and subscribe

Starting point is 00:29:53 Help us out and thank you for making locked on Patriots your first listen today for your second listen check out locked on NFL scouting crabs Marino make you the most informed NFL fan this offseason Find locked on NFL scouting on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Have a great day and we will see you on Friday.

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Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Scout’s Surprising Take On The Patriots | Who Could “Torpedo” Season?

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