Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Shake-Up: Mike Vrabel Removes Terrell Williams From DC Job

Starting point is 00:00:00 Mike Vrable has made his decision. Terrell Williams will not be the Pats defensive coordinator in 2026. This is Locked-on Patriots. You are Locked-on Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcasts Network, your team every day. What's happening? I am your host, Nick Cattles, born and raised in New England. Been covering the Pats for the past 16 years, also the co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattels and a sports radio veteran. Welcome to Lockdown Patriots, part of the

Starting point is 00:00:40 Lockdown Podcast Network, now the number one sports podcast network, your team every day. On today's show, in the third segment, Jalen Hawkins is a free agent, and we think it'd be a good business decision to bring him back. In the second segment, we'll discuss the importance of this coaching staff staying mostly intact. But first, speaking of the coaching staff, Terrell Williams has reportedly been moved away from the defensive coordinator position. Earlier this week, Mike Rable met with the media, and he told the media he was going to take a few days to work through things regarding the defensive coordinator position. Of course, Terrell Williams was hired to be the D.C.

Starting point is 00:01:25 Terrell Williams, unfortunately, had a lot of medical issues, including cancer, which thankfully he has cancer-free now, but that forced him to step away. That core inside linebackers coach took over the defensive play calling duty while Williams was gone. So Mike Vrable, again, told the media this week, I'm going to take a few days, we're going to work through this. Well, it did not take too long. Ian Rappaport of the NFL Network posted, the Patriots are moving defensive coordinator, Terrell Williams, to a high-ranking role on the staff with Williams now cancer-free. The Patriots have opened up the DC position with inside linebackers coach.

Starting point is 00:02:04 Zach Corr, who called plays during the Super Bowl run, a top candidate. Now, as far as the Williams role, I could imagine it's going to be some kind of senior consultant, maybe assistant head coach while he consults with the staff on the defensive side, but Williams will certainly be taken care of by Mike Vrable. So how did this happen? Why did this happen? First thing is, I do wonder if health is a factor. I know that, again, thankfully Williams is cancer-free.

Starting point is 00:02:34 but we're talking about long days and nights when you are a coordinator. You're putting in 60, 70, 80 hours at least every single week during the season. And even though you're cancer free, it doesn't necessarily mean that your body is willing and ready to go right out of the gates. And so maybe, just maybe, this is a situation where William says, you know what? I'd much rather be in a different role. I don't have to put in 70 to 80 hours a week. I've got to take care of my body. I've got to take care of myself.

Starting point is 00:03:12 I was lucky and fortunate that this thing played out the way it played out and they were able to get to the cancer in time. And now I am cancer free. So maybe this is Terrell Williams making the call. I could easily see Vrable go to Williams, have this conversation and Williams say, I want to still be with the team. I want to be an important part of this coaching staff,

Starting point is 00:03:34 but I just am not sure or don't want to be the defensive coordinator because of the amount of work it's going to take. Maybe Williams just kind of recalibrated his priorities. I mean, this happens, right? You are almost on the verge of death with this cancer diagnosis, and you're wondering if you're going to live. You know, Williams told Andrew Callahan of the Boston Herald that he had very tough conversations with his family.

Starting point is 00:03:59 he was looking at the idea of dying. And doctors told him that it was certainly possible that he could go. So maybe this just kind of has recalibrated Terrell Williams' priorities, and he wants to spend a little bit more time with his family. We know Vrable is very mindful of his coaching staff, the hours they work. He's very mindful of making sure that they stay close with their family, stay in communication with their family, spend time with their family. So this could be a Williams call.

Starting point is 00:04:32 You also have to look at it and say, well, if there is any kind of setback, God forbid, of course, we hope he's cancer free for the rest of his life and things are all set. Clean bill of health. And he lives another 35, 40 years. But if there's any kind of setback or he starts to feel sick, don't forget, he had two ailments. I'm not sure that we even found out what the first ailment was, which kept him from him. camp. A lot of stuff was going on with Williams. And so maybe they say, hey, look, God forbid, if you get sick again, it doesn't have to be cancer, but God forbid something else pops up. We're going to have chaos with the staff again. We're going to have to, you know, move guys around. It's probably better that we just

Starting point is 00:05:15 put somebody in that spot that is going to be able and capable of being in that spot for the entire year without any issues. Now, of course, you can't guarantee anything, but the history is the history. So all of that could play a role. Possible names. Possible names that could be the next defensive coordinator for the Patriots. Let's not forget Jim Schwartz. Jim Schwartz was just with the Cleveland Browns. He was their D.C. last season wanted to be their head coach. They decided to hire Todd Munkin. And Schwartz, after a few days of going back and forth with the Browns organization, decided to resign. Schwartz spent time with Vrable in Tennessee. So Jim Schwartz could absolutely be part of this thing.

Starting point is 00:05:57 Shane Bowen, who was the Titans defensive coordinator when Vrable was down there. Of course, Shane Bowen was with the New York Giants and Brian Dayball, and he is no longer in New York. So Shane Bowen could also be a part of this mix. But ultimately, I think all of us look at this and say, this is Zach Corse job. This is going to be Zach Corse job. I find it incredibly difficult to believe. that Mike Vrable would move Terrell Williams. Again, maybe it was Williams' choice,

Starting point is 00:06:29 but I find it very difficult to believe that Williams would be moved to this different position on the coaching staff and that Vrable would bypass Zach Corr after what he just did for him in 2025 and go outside of the organization to hire somebody else and put Zach Corr back as the inside linebackers coach. I would find that very difficult to believe. I have to imagine this conversation is Terrell Williams is moving up to assistant head coach, senior consultant, whatever the title is going to be.

Starting point is 00:07:03 Zach Corr is going to be promoted officially from the inside linebackers coach to defensive coordinator. And frankly, Core earned the gig. He deserves it. He deserves it. And I'm sure he feels weird about how it came together. And I'm sure he's not super comfortable with the idea of replacing Terrell Williams. as the DC officially because of how it came about. But I'm also sure that Williams has given him his go ahead.

Starting point is 00:07:33 I'm sure that Vrable has had the conversation with Core, and that Core is ready to take over that spot. He earned the gig. It was a terrific run in the postseason. And when you think about the fact that this was Zach Kor's first time calling defensive plays, live bullets, man. He was thrown into it after we. one and he got better and better and better as the season progressed. He earned the gig. And it also

Starting point is 00:08:01 keeps cohesiveness from this year and what you established with the players. The players are comfortable with core. Not to say they're not comfortable with Williams. They say they are. But you know, this was the guy that was with them every single day. He was in meetings. He was working with them all year, helped them play as well as they did in the postseason. So there is already that bond and the communications have been established. Zach Corr knows how to have those conversations with certain players on the team. The players know exactly what to expect from Zach Corp. You bring somebody from the outside, you now might be messing a little bit too much

Starting point is 00:08:42 with the formula. And when you look at it, Terrell Williams, Zach Corr, Mike Vrable, that's a pretty impressive trio of defensive minds handling that side of the football for 2026. I am very comfortable with that setup. Williams as assistant head coach, defensive consultant, Zach Core as your DC, Vrable as your head coach. Maybe Shane Bowen comes in and replaces Zach Corr as the inside linebacker's coach. That could be a possibility.

Starting point is 00:09:15 And if Zach Core ever moves on to being a head coach, If he continues to show that potential, and he's in the head coach conversation after 2026 or 2027, maybe at that point, Torel Williams will be ready to return and more comfortable, and then you could just slide him back, or maybe you do something else. But I think it's rather obvious. I would put a lot of money down on Zach Corp being the D.C.

Starting point is 00:09:42 And I am very comfortable with Williams, Corps, and Vrable moving forward. A successful coaching staff could get heavily poached. But to this point, that doesn't seem to be the case for the 2025 paths. That's great news for them and the team. Find out why next. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. If you've ever hired someone who looked good on paper but wasn't the right fit, you know how important that is.

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Starting point is 00:11:09 Do it the right way with Indeed. If you love this podcast but hate interruptions, try the everydayer club. Add free, Discord access, and more. Go to lockdownpatriots.supercast.com or check the link in the show notes to learn more. Don't forget, give us a thumbs up on YouTube if you're watching. Throw a comment in as well. Do you want to see Mike Vrable go outside the organization and not promote Zach Corp? Or are you like myself and feel completely comfortable if it is Core, Williams,

Starting point is 00:11:44 and Vrable leading this defense? Don't forget to like. Don't forget to comment. and don't forget to subscribe. So far, one coach has left the coaching staff. This came out earlier on Thursday. Robert Coogler, who was one of three offensive line coaches. Of course, Robert Coogler was originally with Gerard Mayo staff.

Starting point is 00:12:04 He was one of the very few to hang on and stay in New England and coach this year. Robert Coogler has moved to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Mike McCarthy has hired him, and he's not going to be an O-line coach. It's a nice, I think, little bump. Robert Coogler is going to Pittsburgh to be the tight ends coach. And if you know anything about coaching in the NFL, tight ends coaches, very critical to the operation. They work in the run game and the past game.

Starting point is 00:12:33 And when Coogler was hired by Mayo's Patriots in 2024, there was a lot of talk about people around the game being impressed by him and thinking he had some potential and maybe one day being an offensive coordinator. Well, this is the next step. Cougler going to Pittsburgh to be the tight ends coach under Mike McCarthy. That's the next step towards being the OC. And of course, Thomas Brown, as of right now, what we know, he's still on the Patriot staff as the passing game coordinator and the tight ends coach.

Starting point is 00:13:06 So I don't think the Patriots are itching to get rid of Thomas Brown from that spot. So Coogler is the only coach so far that we know of that has left the organization. And having a cohesive staff is valuable. Stefan Diggs, going back in November, he talked about why he picked the Patriots in free agency. And he told Chris Mason of Mass Live the following, quote, I feel like it was a conglomerate. Young quarterback who showed some promise,

Starting point is 00:13:36 showed some skill set, can throw the ball, he's mobile, being young, but then also Josh McDaniels. He's been around the game for a long time, homecoming for him. He's called a lot of great plays here. and then Vrable. So it was a group effort with everybody for me personally. Stefan Diggs also later mentioned Todd Downing, who was the wide receivers coach,

Starting point is 00:13:56 who had a connection with Diggs back in his Minnesota days. So the quote unquote conglomerate remains, remains in place for the 2026 free agency period and the upcoming season. And so keeping as much of the staff together as possible, it's critical. And a lot of times you see a team goes to the Super Bowl, team wins a Super Bowl, especially if it's unexpected. A number of those coaches, they're promoted in other places. But again, it doesn't seem so far that that's the case with the paths.

Starting point is 00:14:31 And so if you can keep the vast majority of this staff intact, you're going to build on what you had in 2025. You streamline the process. You know, when you understand each other, you know each other. You know how you communicate with others on the staff. It streamlines the process. It becomes more efficient.

Starting point is 00:14:55 You're not worried about stepping on eggshells, upsetting somebody, somebody not really picking up what you're putting down. When you've worked with that person already for a full football season, you are much more comfortable with them. You bring somebody from the outside. You don't know how that's going to work at all times. And you also, you know, when you look at the coaching staff, these guys have a knowledge of what works with these players.

Starting point is 00:15:20 They understand how these guys learn. They understand some of the weaknesses they might have. They understand the strengths that these players have. And again, that makes it much easier to have conversations. It also makes it easier for Mike Vrable to delegate. Brable understands the strengths and weaknesses of the coaching staff he has now. he's been able to evaluate these guys throughout the season. And so he might deploy somebody a little bit differently than he did this past season from what he learned.

Starting point is 00:15:53 But having the same people on the staff allows you to do that and accentuate the strengths and hide the weaknesses. This is also awesome for Drake May. And I know we just watched the Super Bowl. We just watch the tough postseason. But we have to look at this 2025 year in totality. and I don't think anybody would disagree with the idea that Josh McDaniels did much more better than harm for Drake May. And now Drake May gets to walk into 2026 second year in the system. Learning more, understanding McDaniels, McDaniels, understanding May.

Starting point is 00:16:32 Thomas Brown right now still on the staff. Todd Downing, right now, still on the staff. We know those guys had some pretty big impact during the season. and working with McDaniels and sprinkling in some different stuff. And as Josh McDaniels told Julian Edelman on his podcast, you know, a while back, you just kind of continue to fill the cup. Now as you get ready for year two, you continue to fill that cup for Drake May. And it just makes it easier and it's much more comfortable for the quarterback walking

Starting point is 00:17:02 into a room knowing his entire staff, knowing what to expect. less change, less confusion for the young players. I mean, think about Kyle Williams as you try to improve Kyle Williams and develop Kyle Williams over the next several months, hoping that he takes on a bigger role for 2026. Todd Downing, his positional coach, was here in 2025. And so it's much easier to just continue that education for Kyle Williams with the same coach. Tony Dews with Trayvion Henderson at running back.

Starting point is 00:17:38 same idea. So your younger players don't have to deal with constant shifting and constant change. And, oh, we got a new coach. And this coach wants me to do it this way. My last coach during my rookie season wanted me to do it that way. You don't have to worry about those headaches. You don't have to worry about any of those. And, you know, when you look at addressing needs as we get ready for free agency and as we get ready for the draft,

Starting point is 00:18:05 you have a better opportunity to address the needs that you need to address because the systems are going to stay in place. If it is at core, the defensive coordinator, you know what you want to run, you know, and you know what you might have to add and how that might tweak your system a little bit. Same case with Josh McDaniels on the offensive side. So it's this understanding what you need, what you might have lacked in 2025 in a certain way, and how you think you can address that. You all get together in that room and you come up with ideas as to how can we be better with this?

Starting point is 00:18:43 And instead of implementing an entirely new system and starting from scratch, you have a head start. The coach, the player relationships, all of this. All of this made easier if your staff mostly stays intact. And it's also, I'll tell you what,

Starting point is 00:19:05 it's also easier to sell free agents. The proof is in the pudding. Look at last year you can say to him. Look at what we just did. Nobody thought we were going to do much of anything. And all we did was get to the freaking Super Bowl. Look at last year. The coaching staff is back.

Starting point is 00:19:26 Everybody's coming back from the staff or mostly everybody. All we need to do is add more talent and you are that talent. you are part of that talent that we need to add. It is a pitch job. But if you're a free agent and you're looking at this coaching staff and you see how the players from this year talk about the coaching staff and when you see the success on the field, I mean, that has to make an impact on you.

Starting point is 00:19:55 If you're an offensive player or a wide receiver, and you know Josh McDaniels is going to be back in Todd Downing and Drake May and you see that the wide receivers in 2025, exceeded expectations. Why wouldn't you believe that you could exceed expectations? Coming up, we'll tell you why we are in. We are in on the idea of bringing back Jalen Hawkins. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. The Winter Games, they're officially here. And if you're anything like us, you're locking in for events. You only get to see on the biggest stage every four years. And that's why following the

Starting point is 00:20:39 Winter Games on Fandul, well, it just makes sense. From metal counts to individual events to finding your angle on the sports that you care about most. Fan Duel gives you more ways to stay connected to the action. The drama of curling matches. I love curling was watching curling last night. These curling matches, they start slow and then they somehow get intense fast. Speed skating races, decided by mere inches, hockey games that just feel different right from the opening face-off. Even niche events become must-watch when you're fully locked into the competition.

Starting point is 00:21:14 And Fandul keeps the entire Olympic experience engaging from start to finish. The Winter Games, as you know, they are on. And there's no better way to follow them than with our friends at Fandul. Fandul, play your game. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. Jalen Hawkins is one of those six or seven unrestricted free agents that we have discussed earlier. in the week. And, you know, he has gone from a flyer, I think, when he signed in 2024. I'm going to take a flyer on him. Mostly a special teams guy. And maybe he'll help us out at safety every once in a while, but, you know, maybe an end of the bench type guy. He went from being a flyer to being a significant part of the defensive back puzzle for

Starting point is 00:22:05 this team this year. And I say extend them. I would have absolutely zero issue if the Patriots extended Jalen Hawkins. He was very solid in 2025. We didn't talk a lot about him, which is a good thing. I mean, think about the safeties of the past. Think about Kyle Dugger when he got burnt a lot in 2024. We spent a lot of time talking about Kyle Dugger. You don't necessarily want that to be the case if it's this guy's getting beat deep all the time. This guy's getting shredded in coverage. Jalen Hawkins was solid, if not better than solid in 2025. Pro football Focus ranked Jalen Hawkins. They rank him as the eighth best safety on the free agent market.

Starting point is 00:22:49 His PFF grade was 72.7. They posted one of the league's most quietly impressive defenders. His 81.3 overall PFF grade ranked sixth among qualifying safeties. That's a little confusing because they put PFF grade 72.7, but then they write that his grade was an 81.3 overall. I don't know. I don't own PFF. but they say that his 81.3 overall PFF grade ranked sixth among qualifying

Starting point is 00:23:18 safeties entering the AFC championship game. He also placed second in PFF run defensive grade and seventh in PFF coverage grade. So I know that PFF is polarizing with their grading system, but Jalen Hawkins, according to pro football focus, was seen as one of the better safeties, one of the better free safeties in football this year. And even if you don't think he was that good, I think he was good. And so my question would be,

Starting point is 00:23:46 why would you let a good player with knowledge of this defensive scheme? Why would you let that player walk? You have a lot of other holes, right? And the idea, like, you look at the holes on this roster and you look at having to get younger in a number of different positions. With those two things working themselves out here this offseason,

Starting point is 00:24:10 to think that you can have the opportunity for the starting secondary to return in 2026. To me, that is desirable. If you say, all right, Christian Gonzalez, Carlton Davis, Marcus Jones, all coming back, Craig Woodson coming back, Jalen Hawkins coming back. We talk about starting from ahead in 2026. And you can start from ahead in your defensive backfield if you're, just bring Hawkins back. Now, everybody is back. They all understand their role. They all understand how to communicate with each other. They understand the scheme. Now you can start to

Starting point is 00:24:49 sprinkle on more to the secondary with this scheme because of they are being familiar with each other and what they did this year. So with all the other holes you're working with and having to turn over some of this roster, this offseason, I just think if you could tell me this secondary is the same secondary next year as it was this year, I'd be fine with it. I would have no problems with that. Why would you let a good player with the knowledge of the system and scheme walk out the door? You could say money, which we'll get to in a little bit. We'll discuss the money in a little bit. The other thing about Jalen Hawkins that is interesting is he has a connection with Craig Woodson. Both played at Cal in 2019. They were both on the

Starting point is 00:25:33 Cal football team in 2019. So they've known each other for a while. And I do think that helps you on the field. I think it helps your communication process on the field. I think it almost kind of makes you feel like you know what the other guy is going to do because you understand what he's thinking because you know him and you know him better than maybe some other players on the team or most players on the team. And we talk about violence, which is Mike Raebel, one of his favorite words when he talks about the defense as well as Terrell Williams, violence.

Starting point is 00:26:05 both Hawkins and Woodson are physical safeties. And so I like the idea of their physicality and their violence for this defense, that role that they can play. We talk about leadership all the time. And you might not know, but it certainly feels like Jalen Hawkins is a leader on the defense. Not the leader, but he's a part of it. I remember watching one of those mic'd segments.

Starting point is 00:26:35 on YouTube with the Patriots when they released it. They had Jalen Hawkins one week, miced. And man, oh man, constant energy, very vocal, talking to both offense and defense. Just feels like he's part of the fabric. And there was a video released recently where Mike Vrable is in the tunnel after the Super Bowl, which I think is great,

Starting point is 00:27:01 because you don't only do that when you're winning games and everything is all. awesome, right? You got to show up for your guys and greet them when they just had their toughest loss of their career. And there's this video of Vrable, you know, shaking hands with guys, talking to guys as they're walking into the locker room. And there's this moment with Jalen Hawkins where Vrable kind of squares up with Hawkins. He turns them so they're looking directly at each other. And there's this conversation between Vrable and Hawkins. And if you see it, It just feels like Vrable understands that Hawkins is going to be one of those guys

Starting point is 00:27:37 that is going to be able to walk into that locker room and get them focused on, you know, what truly matters and get them ready to already start thinking about 2026. That conversation between Vrable and Hawkins to me was something that we should not overlook. I think those types of things mean something. When the head coach is pulling somebody aside and saying, you know, we got to get those guys in there. We got to get those guys kind of ready mentally. We got we got to deal with this together. To pull Hawkins aside like he did just makes me feel like Vrable

Starting point is 00:28:09 sees Hawkins as one of the leaders on this team. One of the guys that he wants around. So how much money? Pro football focus. They had this story. Ten defenders that deserve to get paid. Hawkins was one of those 10 defenders. Their projected AAV, average annual value,

Starting point is 00:28:30 is $11 million per year. They write, Hawkins enjoyed a breakout year. 28-year-old safety showcased his range, logged an 85.7 pro football focus coverage grade at free safety with four interceptions. So his coverage grade was higher after the AFC championship game and the Super Bowl

Starting point is 00:28:50 before leading into those two games. Without an established track record of success, Hawkins may aim to resign with the Patriots as he has proven himself with the staff. And I know Hawkins has gone on the record. If you've seen it, he wants to return. He called New England home. I think he wants to be here.

Starting point is 00:29:08 I think he wants to play for Mike Vrable. I think he wants to play for Zach Corr and the assistant coaches. And a thing that could work in the favor for the Patriots here is that there are some good safeties on the market. So I don't think Hawkins is going to be the premier target. If you're looking at a safety, if you're looking for a safety, you know, you might look at a couple of other guys before you get to Hawkins. And the safety market has been slow to move the past couple of years. So both of those things, I think, could work in the Patriots favor.

Starting point is 00:29:41 You might be able to get Jalen Hawkins for a little less than the $11 million per season. But sign me up. Sign me up. You can always give the signing bonus and play with the money. I have zero issue bringing Jalen Hawkins back to this football team. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. Thank you for making us your first listen for being an everydayer. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C. Radio.

Starting point is 00:30:04 Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. Hit that like button and subscribe. And if you're looking for a gift for someone, make it easy. Check out the Everydayer Club. Add free episodes of this show, exclusive Discord server access, and more. Subscriptions can be gifted through lockdownpatriots.com. Have a great weekend, and we will see you on Monday.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Shake-Up: Mike Vrabel Removes Terrell Williams From DC Job

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