Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Shakeup: TreVeyon Henderson The RB Solution? | Vrabel’s Expectations

Starting point is 00:00:00 After week three, the Pats now have a running back problem. I have thoughts about what's been happening and how to handle it moving forward. Let's start there. This is Lockdown Patriots. You are Locked on Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcasts network, your team every day. What's happening? I'm your host, Nick Cattles, born and Rainer. in New England been covering this team for the past 16 years, also co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots

Starting point is 00:00:35 podcast with Nick Cattels and a sports talk show host veteran. Coming up, we'll tell you how and why Mike Vrable has fallen short of early expectations. We'll also break down how Sunday brought a sliver, a sliver of hope to the defensive struggles. But first, our plan on how to handle the sudden running back dilemma in Foxborough. We appreciate you joining the show, making us your first listening for being an everyday. Lockdown Patriots podcast is a proud partner of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. And today's episode is brought to by Fandul. Right now, new customers can bet just $5. And if your bet wins, you'll get $300 in bonus bets to use across the app. Before the season began, I looked at the running back position. And I felt like that it was a

Starting point is 00:01:23 good position. I thought the Patriots were in good shape at running back. I liked the room. I liked Stevenson, I liked Gippson, I like Trayvion Henderson, liked all three of those guys. I think they're all, when they're right, good if not very good running backs in the NFL. But so far, running back has been a huge disappointment in weeks one and week three. You got great effort, you got great production from Ramandre Stevenson down in Miami. But if you look at week one and week three, there just has not been enough production from the running backs. And now you've got the fumbling issues that popped up, once again for Ramandre Stevenson, and really once again for Antonio Gibson, who had fumble issues in Washington

Starting point is 00:02:08 before he signed with the Patriots in the 2024 off season. So now that all of that begs the question, how do you split up the carries, the touches? What do you do at running back now? Mike Vrable was asked about Ramandre Stevenson by the media on Monday, and he said, quote, we got to get him back. We need him. You saw what he did last week, unquote. And that's true. I had some people push back at me on Twitter saying, oh, well, the Patriots should have benched Ramandre Stevenson right away, right after that first fumble. And I disagree with that. Mike Vrable is new here. Mike Vrable is giving everybody a clean slate. And if Vrable goes to Stevenson and says, hey, I know you've had some issues in the past with fumbling the football, but you've got a clean slate with me. You're my guy.

Starting point is 00:02:57 You're my guy. We believe in you. We're going to give you every single opportunity to be the starting back for this football team. If that's the conversation, and I have to believe that was the conversation between Vrable and Stevenson, then you're not going to bench the guy before the first fumble. And I don't think you're going to bench him after the first fumble. It was the first fumble of the season by Stevenson. So even though we saw this in 2024, seven times over, even though we've seen this in prior years from Stevenson, we have to remember this is year one with Vrable.

Starting point is 00:03:29 And he gave Ramandre Stevenson that clean slate. But after that second fumble, we should all be asking, now what? What do you do? Now for Ramadre Stevenson, if I am Vrable and company, if I'm this staff, I'm sitting Stevenson this week. He's not going to play against Carolina. I just would not do it. Number one, you need to discipline him a little bit.

Starting point is 00:03:53 and he played a couple of snaps after the second fumble at the half yard line on Sunday. But both of those snaps he got were because of past protection. And we'll get to that a little bit later. But I am disciplining Ramandre Stevenson. You fumbled twice, one time at the half yard line that cost us six points. You're not playing this week. Take the time to clear your head. Take the time to think about what happened.

Starting point is 00:04:20 Try to figure some things out. But you're not going to play week four. against the Panthers. It's not happening on my watch. I would call up Terrell Jennings, who's on the practice squad, who was with this team on the practice squad and played a couple of games last year. I would call up Jennings, and he would be my third back. And I would slowly try to build the confidence within Ramandre Stevenson back up. But I'm not playing him week four, which I think leads a lot of people, including Mark Daniels of Mass Live, to scream, Travion Henderson's the guy. Travion Henderson's the guy.

Starting point is 00:04:53 And Daniels wrote on Monday in Mass Live, after watching Stevenson fumble twice and Antonio Gibson fumble once the Patriots finished their week three matchup with Trayvion Henderson as their top running back. After three weeks of playing in a backup role, the Patriots should move forward with the rookie as their top option. I don't have an issue with Henderson being the quote unquote top option, but what I would not do is give him the bulk. What I would not do is make him the bell cow.

Starting point is 00:05:23 First, let's start here. Trayvion Henderson, as great as his camp was, and as excited as I am and others are to watch him play, and he is going to be an impact player for this offense at some point. There's no doubt in my mind, he's way too talented. But the fact is, he has not earned the shot to be the Belkow. He has not earned the responsibility of playing the majority of the snaps. He had three flags in Miami, two holes on offense, and a hold-on special teams.

Starting point is 00:05:55 He has not been good in past protection, including on Sunday when first shot he had a chance to handle a blitzer, Patrick Queen, he got toasted. So his past protection, which was expected to be very good on day one, has not been up to snuff. He's been allowing way too much pressure when he's out there. He has been undisciplined picking up flags. So as much as I love the idea of Trayvion Henderson and what he can bring to this offense,

Starting point is 00:06:28 he just simply has not earned the right to play 60% of the snaps. Secondly, this was my concern going back to camp. If you remember, I talked about this, I have tweeted about this. I was concerned that the Patriots would overuse Trayvon Henderson. They would go to him early. They'd go to him often. And by week 14 or 15, he would be. absolutely done if you're fortunate enough to get to the byweek week week 14 with henderson

Starting point is 00:06:59 still healthy we can't forget as enamored as we are with his talent and the fumbles as infuriating as they are from the two other running backs on this roster right now you cannot overuse henderson you cannot act out of desperation and give him 20 25 touches you you can't do it every week maybe once you can get away with it maybe twice you can get away with it, but you can't forget who Trayvion Henderson is. He is a running back that was proven at his best when he split carries at Ohio State. It's obvious. He's more of a running back by committee type guy than somebody who's going to play 60, 65% of the snaps and give you 20 touches every week.

Starting point is 00:07:44 That's just not his strength. And so I don't want to overuse Trayvion Henderson because Ramandre Stevenson fumbled twice in week three as much as I love the potential. So what would I do? What I would do right now is I would go with the committee. And I know some of you probably hate that. I know some of you are probably screaming at me. You want Trayvion Henderson out there as much as humanly possible. You want the new shiny toy from Isle 7. And I get it. But I'm not going to overuse him. He hasn't earned it. and I'm concerned about how it will impact the rest of his 2025, and you need him this season. You need him the entire season.

Starting point is 00:08:29 So when he eventually gets going, you can utilize him correctly and get a huge boost to your offense. But I'm going with the committee. Henderson, I'm fine with Henderson starting. I'm fine with Henderson being the first back that you put out there because at least he hasn't fumbled. But I would go with the committee with Traybion Henderson and Tony O'Gypson, call up Terrell Jennings. I would play all three of those guys against Carolina and ride the hot hand with one eye towards touches with Henderson knowing what we've discussed. That's what I would do. That's what I think you should do.

Starting point is 00:09:10 And if on the Patriots, I'm keeping my eyes open to any possibilities that are not currently on this roster, running backs. They can be available an awful lot. So I would keep my eyes open, always looking to upgrade. But as far as week four, Carolina at Gillette, Henderson, Gibson, Jennings is my rotation. Stevenson takes a seat and I ride the hot hand. And I hope that I get enough production out of those three running backs that make me feel good about my running game and my third down pass protection. So that's my plan. Let me know what your plan is in the comments.

Starting point is 00:09:52 Don't forget to like. Don't forget to comment. Don't forget to subscribe. All right. Coming up next, I will tell you three ways, three ways that Mike Rables start to this season has fallen short of expectations. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Caffeine just got a flavor upgrade. Five-hour energy shots deliver tasty caffeine.

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Starting point is 00:11:00 flavorless caffeine. It's time to give your caffeine a flavor upgrade with five-hour energy shots. Get the favorites you love or be bold and try something new in store and online at www.5hourenergy.com or Amazon today. When Mike Vrable was hired, I've said this so many times. I probably lost count. But when Brable was hired, I said the Mike Vrable hiring made the Patriots a serious football program again. And it's because of Mike Vrable's ability to build a team, build a culture. He had experience in that position.

Starting point is 00:11:36 He won a lot of games in Tennessee when Ryan Tannenhill was his quarterback, not so many when he had a bunch of other guys as his quarterback. but he had proven himself as an NFL head coach that he could lead a program and he could win in the NFL, not at the highest level just yet, not win a Super Bowl, but get to an a FC championship game with, again, Ryan Tannahill as his quarterback. And part of being a serious football program is being buttoned up, making sure that you have all of the details figured out. Your team looks prepared week in and week out. And I know it's early.

Starting point is 00:12:11 It's only been three weeks, and I expect improvement. I will say that. I will absolutely sit here and tell you, I expect things to get better. I expect the coaching staff to be better. I expect the players to execute at a higher level. I expect that to happen as we move forward. But I'm looking at the first three weeks. And I will tell you, so far, Mike Vrable, in his program, has fallen short of

Starting point is 00:12:41 of expectations. Let's start with the penalties. Way too many penalties. We talked about it during the live post game show after the loss to Pittsburgh. There's good football, bad football, and bleep that gets you beat. And the penalties have just been insane. Now, even though there have been a few bad calls, and I mentioned those bad calls during the live post game. So I understand not every single flag thrown should be an indictment on a player or the player's lack of execution because frankly, sometimes the refs miss calls. We all know that. That's the honest truth. That's not an excuse. It's a reason. You look at these bad flags from time to time. Just bad officiating happens. These guys are not going to hit, you know, constantly 10 for 10,

Starting point is 00:13:32 15 for 15. They're not going to bat a thousand. That's not the way the world works. But just looking at the penalties, the majority of these penalties, the balance of these penalties, just a lack of detail. And I expected better detail from Mike Vrable. I expected his players to understand, to understand procedural things. I would expect somebody like, you know, Kalevon Chase on to not be called for multiple off-sides penalties the last couple of weeks. Lack of detail. And that just shouldn't be happening. A lack of of execution, which speaks to the coaching staff and to Mike Vrable himself. When your team lacks execution, yes, some of that falls on the players, but some of that

Starting point is 00:14:20 absolutely falls on the head coach. And when Gerard Mayo last year in 2024, when this team would have a number of penalties on a given Sunday, I would talk about Gerard Mayo and the lack of discipline, the lack of detail, the lack of execution from him, his staff, and his team. and it's only fair I do the same thing with Mike Vrable. Vrable's been a coach before. I would criticize Gerard Mayo about these things, and it was his first year as a head coach.

Starting point is 00:14:48 He had never even been a defensive coordinator at the NFL level or any level. I'm going to hold Mike Vrable to a higher standard than Gerard Mayo, and I think we all should hold him to that higher standard. Frankly, it's not really that high of a standard. But the penalties, the lack of detail, execution, and discipline, and the number of penalties, they've just been absurd. Greg Bedard wrote at Boston Sports Journal. Through three games, the Patriots have been hit with 27 penalties.

Starting point is 00:15:18 They're on pace to have 153 penalties, which would blow away the team record, which was 120 in 2014. The league record is 163 by the Raiders in 2011. And I also haven't loved Mike Vrable's public. response to some of this. Now, privately, I don't know. Privately, Vrable could be ripping the heads off of his team. He can be going absolutely bananas behind closed doors, yelling at guys, going crazy about

Starting point is 00:15:52 these penalties. I don't know what happens behind closed doors, but I would tell you publicly, I think there have been a number of examples where Vrable has not necessarily held his guys accountable for some of these penalties. You know, you look at Will Campbell, has two false starts and his first star ever. Then he has another false start against Miami. Vrable has asked about that on WEEEI, and he says, oh, no, well, you know, Will was just pointing out where the rush was coming from. He didn't have a false start.

Starting point is 00:16:25 That's, that's not true. Campbell unequivocally flinched before he pointed. It was a false start. Now, maybe Vrable missed it on the film. I understand that. It wasn't an obvious flinch, but it was there. So maybe he missed that one. But what about Caleb-on-Cheson's multiple off-sides penalties?

Starting point is 00:16:45 Brable said something along the lines on EEI of, well, if the ref isn't going to tell him, if the ref isn't going to point it out. And yes, you can expect, you could hope that the ref is going to, you know, point that kind of thing out. They do. They make sure you're lined up an awful lot. But Chasan's been in the league for years now. He should also know where to line up. and when he's off sides.

Starting point is 00:17:06 And the fact that it happened again against the Steelers, that's inexcusable. And even just talking about penalties in general, Rabel said to Greg Hill on EEI that penalties are, quote, probably a bad predictor for win rate, unquote. At times, I'm sure that's true. But I can also tell you,

Starting point is 00:17:24 if you constantly get penalties that puts you behind the eight ball, you're more likely going to lose a football game. So I don't doubt that there are some analytics that tell you that there's not a direct line from penalties to losses. But you can't argue that sloppy football and penalties are a good thing. And so I don't know of Rabel is either covering publicly or he's not taking this stuff seriously enough.

Starting point is 00:17:50 And I think he should be talking a little bit more harsh when he's asked about these penalties. Then you get to the turnovers. And I don't disagree with people. They say turnovers are on the player. They're mostly on the player. But let me quote Bill Parcells, who was just. put into the Patriots Hall of Fame this past weekend. Parcells famously said, quote, you're either coaching it or you're allowing it to happen.

Starting point is 00:18:13 And I used that line against Mayo a number of times last year. I'm going to use it against Vrable. You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen. And Vrable's press conference on Monday, he was asked about, you know, how to correct Ramandre Stevenson's fumble issue and Taylor Kyle's transcribe this. Vrable says the Patriots will continue to, quote, practice to crap out of it, unquote, and protect the player with the ball when asked how Stevenson's fumbles will be addressed. Have you not practiced a crap out of it?

Starting point is 00:18:43 He says they'll continue to practice to crap out of it. Obviously, those practices have not helped because you had three fumbles from your backs in week three. And you can go back multiple times when Vrable was asked about Stevenson's fumbles during camp, when Stevenson fumbled during a scrimmage and Greg Bedard had this transcribed. You know, when Vrable was asked about the fumble during the scrimmage, he said, well, when you make a great cut and you break through, know that every team in the league is going to come and hammer it and they're going to play a full tilt to the tackle.

Starting point is 00:19:15 So cut, great, cut, good job in the open field. And unfortunately, we'll have to continue to rep that and take care of football. But that's something that those things that you mentioned, I think overshadow a lot of the good stuff that we did. So somewhat with. kid gloves and multiple other times he took heat off of Ramandre Stevenson when asked about the fumbles. And I get it publicly standing up for your guy. And again, you want to give him a clean slate. But you also can't brush it off to the side, especially when it happens during a scrimmage when there's been a huge issue with fumbles during his career. Now, I will

Starting point is 00:19:50 give credit. Brable did take some accountability on EEI on the Greg Hill show and said, you know, you can polish the turd that was, you know, some of the stuff against the Steelers, however we want to. He said, but, you know, there's stuff that's very detrimental and we got to correct it. And I was glad he said, we have to be able to coach it and acknowledge it and then fix it. But penalties, turnovers and also just not ready to play. I mean, look at the beginning of the game against the Steelers. Drake May was once again jittery in the pocket.

Starting point is 00:20:23 Looked like he was unsure of his protection right out of the gate, almost through. an interception. Thankfully, there was a penalty and it was dropped anyway. Then you had the remandre fumble. But even the defense, the defense came out against the Steelers and did not look ready. You get to run stuff on the very first defensive play of the game. It's wiped out by a K-Levon chase on offside I brought up just a minute ago. Just can't have it. The second defensive snap, Carlton Davis gambles on the Metcalf screen. He gambles. He tries to jump the screen. He doesn't get his hand on the football, and you end up getting a first down from Metcalf on that. Christian Ellis blows a tackle in the hole on a second and one.

Starting point is 00:21:02 So again, Christian Ellis is an issue. The Gainwell touchdown run. Chase on doesn't hold his edge. Craig Woods at his late getting over there. And you can look at some of these game plans, as Greg Bedard pointed out, at BSJ. You blitz the heck out of Gino Smith, you got burned. Then you go down to Miami. They rip your secondary apart, some communication issues.

Starting point is 00:21:24 You leave Robert Spillane one-on-one against Devon A. Chan way too often early in that game. And then against the Steelers, the Patriots came out playing two high safeties against an offense that we talked about has almost no explosiveness to it. And you get roasted in the first quarter for a bunch of yards. And on the first two drives, you give up two touchdowns. So I just expected a cleaner, more disciplined, more responsible operation from Mike Grable. at the very jump. There's lots of time. I think they'll get better as time goes on.

Starting point is 00:22:00 But there's no doubt that part of this program building from Brable has fallen short through the first three weeks. But not all was lost on Sunday. Not all was lost. After a rewatch, we have some hope for the defense. Why? Find out next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. The NFL season is here, and Fandul is making sure you're ready for kickoff, but they can't miss offer.

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Starting point is 00:23:06 bets to use across the app. So are you ready to play? Download the Fandul app now by visiting Fanduil.com to get started. That's Fandul.com to place your first $5 bet. Let's get this out of the way. No, it was not perfect. We know the defense was not perfect against the Steelers. The first quarter was a mess.

Starting point is 00:23:31 When you absolutely needed a stop in the fourth quarter, you gave up a touchdown. The Steelers were three for three in the red zone, never good. But there were some signs for hope. And I want to leave this episode with you feeling a little bit better after the first couple of segments, the reminders of the running back problem. Mike Vrable falling short of expectations. I mentioned Kyrie's Tonga during the live post game. I mentioned him for a minute, but he has to be mentioned again.

Starting point is 00:24:02 I rewatched the game this morning, and I've got to tell you that if you thought Tonga was good against the Steelers, he was even better than you thought. There were a number of snaps that he jumped out, just jumped out through the screen. And in the second half, Tonga was an animal pushing the pocket. making plays against the run and the pass, causing all sorts of problems. Here are just five. I shouldn't say just. Here are five impact plays that happened just in the second half.

Starting point is 00:24:33 Third quarter, second defensive drive. First down, Tonga forces a hold on the center. Second and long, you had White, Jennings, and Tonga pushed the entire offensive line, which resulted in an incomplete pass. The fourth defensive drive, this was in the fourth quarter, the fourth defensive drive of the second half. In the fourth quarter, Tonga gets a pressure, which leads to Harold Landry and Kyle Dugger being all over Janu Smith, and they get the fumble. Of course, they were unable to recover it, unfortunately. But that play by Landry and Dugger really started with Tonga, getting pressure right up the gut.

Starting point is 00:25:13 And then later on, same drive. Tonga in the back field again. Robert Splane comes up, fills the hole, wraps up Warren. Good stop for the defense. But it began with Tonga. And then on the very next drive, the fifth defensive drive of the second half in the fourth quarter, Tonga blows up another play. And it opens the door for Jack Gibbons, who replaced Christian Ellis, thank God,

Starting point is 00:25:36 after the first two drives. That run stuff by Gibbons set up a second and 16 after there was a penalty afterwards. So five plays. five examples of Kyrie's Tonga single-handedly changing the game defensively for the Patriots. I thought he was tremendous in this game. I think he's been mostly tremendous through the first three weeks of this season. And if this continues, this is an unbelievable free agent find and a very good job by the coaching staff to get the very most out of a guy who's kind of floated around and hasn't really been thought about an awful lot.

Starting point is 00:26:16 lot. But Tonga's been fantastic, and he was fantastic, especially in that second half against the Steelers. Here's another reason why I left this rewatch with a sliver of hope defensively. Robert Spillane, I've been all over, and he deserved it. First two weeks, he was borderline terrible. But I thought he was better in this game. I thought Robert Spillane showed a little bit of life. He missed one or two tackles, but mostly. he was there filling holes. I also thought that, and we knew this from his time with the Raiders, he's a pretty good blitzer.

Starting point is 00:26:55 That's at least what the analytics tell you. And I thought he was an impact blitzer on two or three occasions against the Steelers. I thought he created pressure. And if he did not create the pressure himself, he got a teammate some pressure on that defensive line. So utilizing him as a blitzer, he was good. He had the interception. Yes, it was thrown right at him.

Starting point is 00:27:16 him by Rogers for some unknown reason. Guess Rogers just didn't see him, but you still have to catch the football as a linebacker, and he had a pretty good return getting it to inside the 10-yard line. So I thought Spillane was improved. The aforementioned Jack Gibbons, he comes in to replace Christian Ellis after the second touchdown for the Steelers, and I thought that just steadied the defense. I thought Gibbons was good. From what I saw, Gibbons was pretty good.

Starting point is 00:27:46 And he just kind of brought a consistency that, you know, Christian Ellis just did not bring. Early in this game, Ellis was not good. And he missed a couple of tackles. He had some opportunities to make plays, and he just didn't. And I know Mike Vrable told the media on Monday that they had planned to rotate players, and that was part of the rotation. But after Gibbons was in there, they liked what they saw, so they just kept with it. Good job by the coaching staff.

Starting point is 00:28:15 Good job by Mike Vrable. And I thought Gibbons gave them just that level of consistency. And it looked like Spillane just felt a little bit more comfortable out there. They also put Charles Woods in for Alex Austin, which was another change they made after the second drive. And the defense played so much better after that first quarter. Harold Landry also made three or four plays. And I thought, you know, yeah, he did not get the pressures in the sacks that we talked about the first two weeks. But Landry was out there and he made a few impact plays.

Starting point is 00:28:46 And Evan Lazzar pointed out, you know, there was one first down from the Steelers' offense on five possessions in the second and third quarter. So in the second and third quarters, Patriots defense gave up one first down. It's a really good job. And they had to adjust because the Steelers came in with a plan. Back to Evan Lazzar, he wrote, you know, Aaron Rogers' average time to throw was 2.45 seconds. his average target depth was only 4.6 yards. Rogers only attempted 31.9% of his passes when he held the ball for over two and a half seconds. Nine total attempts.

Starting point is 00:29:28 So the ball was coming out quickly. And that's what Rogers does. So you're not going to get a ton of pressure because it's really tough to consistently get those quote unquote quick pressures with a four-man rush. And yeah, the Patriots blitzed a little more. but when you blitz a little more, it brings you some more pressure, but it also opens things up for more big plays as we saw week one against the Raiders. So it's a pick your poison type thing. And I thought the defense overall after that first quarter played well

Starting point is 00:29:57 and gave us some signs for hope heading into Carolina. And you hope that, you know, heading into that Carolina game, you get Christian Gonzalez back and you built a little bit of momentum until that final touchdown, but you did build some momentum in the second and third quarters of that game against the Steelers. And you hope that carries over to the Carolina game and you hope that you get Gonzalez back. All right. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots.

Starting point is 00:30:25 Thank you for making us your first listen and for being an everydayer. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C Radio. Don't forget to help us out. Throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. Hit that like button. That helps us with the algorithm. And subscribe pushing towards 7,000 subs for your second listen. get a double dose of the Lockdown NFL podcast with Tyler the Madman Roland and Tony Wiggins.

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Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Shakeup: TreVeyon Henderson The RB Solution? | Vrabel’s Expectations

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