Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Talking Cap with Pats Cap: Part II - Setting the Record Straight - 4/29/2020

Episode Date: April 29, 2020

Talking Cap with the Pats Cap is so nice, we had to do it twice. In Part II of his interview with host Mike D’Abate, Miguel Benzan (a.k.a. Pats Cap) sets the record straight on some of the New England Patriots Salary Cap myths, including: whether the Pats’ trading out of the first round of the 2020 NFL draft was cap-related, the truth about the future of Joe Thuney in Foxboro and the true financial impact on Undrafted Free Agents. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patriots fans, you are now locked in to the Locked On Patriots Podcast. I'm going to show you how to make a beautiful and beautiful flower. I'm going to use a small flower pot. I'm going to use a small pot Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful and welcome to day two of Patriots Capology 101. Here and only here on the Lockdown Patriots podcast, your daily home for news notes and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots.

My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Locked On Patriots podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Be sure to never miss an episode by subscribing to us on Apple Podcasts, following us on Spotify, and downloading Locked On Patriots via your preferred podcast provider. And folks, because our mission statement here across the Locked On Podcast Network is your team every day,

that means your questions, your comments, and your feedback, always welcomed, greatly appreciated. Feel free to share that feedback by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter, at M-DATEFPC. And while you're out there roaming around on that Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Lockdown Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots.

Patriots fans, it's not often here on the Lockdown Patriots podcast that a guest provides so much wisdom and counsel, so much insight, so much information that we couldn't possibly fit it into one single podcast. It was so electrifying and so nice, we had to do it twice. And that's why once again today, it is my honor to welcome back the Pats Cap himself, the man I dubbed yesterday here on the Locked On Patriots podcast, the Patriots Salary Cap Top Gun. My good friend Miguel Benzon joins me again here today.

And just in case you missed yesterday's episode, I highly recommend going back and absorbing what Miguel had to say. We talked about the Patriots' current salary cap situation. How the just over $1.6 million they currently have available in cap space is not enough for them to start the season. They will definitely need to clear cap space before the beginning of the 2020 NFL season, especially knowing that they have potentially 10 draft picks to sign and put under contract. And Miguel enlightened us on some of those draft picks, including a little background on the quote-unquote Foxborough flu, which is basically a way of saying that a certain draftee

or two might develop an injury and therefore ain't on the Patriots roster without counting against their current salary cap. Well, Miguel explained to us all yesterday why that is a bad strategy for the draftees and that the Patriots always need to have bonus and incentive money at the ready at all times. He also discussed some prime candidates for restructuring, extension, and even a couple of big names that he believes might be on the chopping block for the good of the organization. Again, folks, it was an amazing discussion.

But if you thought yesterday's was fun, you ain't seen nothing yet. Because today, Miguel does not hold back. In part two of my interview with the Pats cap, he looks to set the record straight on so many of the Patriot salary cap myths that are circulating throughout the media, including a great deal of confusion out there on exactly what implications that undrafted free agents have on the Patriots' salary cap. And we'll also talk a little bit more about the man that was saddled with the franchise tag for the upcoming 2020 season, right guard Joe Tooney.

He's carrying a big salary for 2020, but can the Patriots afford it and still be able to put a formidable team on the field this upcoming season? Well, as I said yesterday, during my interview with Miguel, I yielded the floor to him for the most part. And again, folks, he deserves it. The information that he provides is spot on, it's accurate, and it's unfiltered. And I don't hesitate in saying that I was as entertained listening to Miguel as I'm sure you will all be as he sets the record straight right here on the Locked On Patriots

podcast. So settle in, folks, and prepare to absorb the wisdom and counsel of Miguel Benzón for the second straight day in just a moment. But first, as we all continue to do our best to stay safe and stay well during these uncertain times, staying home is a key part of that. And because we're staying home, mealtime takes on a whole new level of significance. And if you're like me, you probably start thinking about what to eat for dinner while you're eating lunch. Like all of you, I love food

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But Postmates doesn't just deliver the burgers, sushi, and pizza that I love. They actually make my life easier by picking up everything I need from stores like Walgreens and 7-Eleven and dropping it off right outside my door. Just download Postmates on iOS or Android. Find your favorites and get anything you want delivered within the hour. For a limited time, Postmates is giving our listeners $100 of free delivery credit for your first seven days. To start your free deliveries, download the app and use the code LOCKEDONNFL. That's code LOCKEDONNFL, L-O-C-K-E-D-O-N-N-F-L.

Use that code for $100 of free delivery credit for your first seven days when you download the Postmates app. Anything you need, anytime you need it, Postmate it. Folks, again, Miguel Benzon, the Pats cap himself, joins me today on the Locked On Patriots podcast. And one of my favorite parts about having you join me on here, my friend, is your ability to identify some of those other cap reports that are out there.

In your infinite wisdom, I am asking you today to either confirm or debunk them. Without further ado, bud, take us home. Set the record straight when it comes to the Patriots' salary cap and their financial future in 2020 the floor is yours what should we know going into 2020 when it comes to your New England Patriots okay first let's let's do my favorite one that the Patriots traded down from the first round because they didn't have the cap space all right that's we know the Patriots have to create cap space so it didn't really matter and if they had traded Joe Tooney they would have given enough cap space to get the rest of the

year they could also do some other moves like I told we just talked about they could get to 28 million dollars in cap space so why does it matter if they had did they could have stayed in the first round? It was the smart move draft-wise. If you look at the draft charts by Rich Hill, Jimmy Johnson, Jason Fitzgerald, Chad Stewart, everyone praised the Patriots for making that trade down. That was a smart move value-wise. It wasn't done.

None of us were in that room. But I'm telling you, as an educated guess, they did not make that move down because of the cap. That's just a hot take. I heard that. Somebody asked me that. I'm like, come on. Really? I said they created a cap space.

The day it would help them sign drafts. me that? I'm like, come on, really? I mean, I said they created cash space and the day it would help them sign drafts, but I didn't think people would take it that they did it. They needed to do it. That's on me for not thinking about what people would read the tweet as. Maybe I should have thought

like that way, but I just said, hey, yeah, it just makes it easier. Of course it's going to make it easier because it's a second-round pick. There's a big difference between what a second-round pick gets and a first-round pick makes. All right? And plus you have an extra – by that time, they went from 12 picks to 13 picks. All right?

So having an extra person actually makes it easier to create the cap space. All right? The other thing was I heard – and some of you are saying it mattered because they didn't want to draft a quarterback. They didn't want to draft Jordan Love because his cap number would have been higher. Well, when I heard that, I almost threw up my hands. I tell you this, Mike, because literally that has never been in the CBA. You get paid under the new CBA that a quarterback gets paid more money if they were drafted in the CBA. You get paid more under the new CBA that a quarter gets paid more money if they were drafted in the first round.

It's a value at the end of the deal, the fifth-year option. It matters what position you play. But not in the first four years. Not for the first four years. I was like, oh, my gosh. I heard that, and I wanted to send the guy who said it a link to the CBA so he could read the section in the CBA about the rookie draft picks. They really – I can't – I was telling my wife over the weekend,

I've been doing this for 20 years, all right, and I still feel the need that I have to do it because the beat writers are not doing – maybe I'm in a crutch. I'm in a crutch and they don't want to learn the CBA because, you know, just go ask me Miguel the question, right? But come on, basic – I'm now – you know what I'm saying? It's like how do you not know that? Like why would you think that if you drafted Jordan Love,

he's going to have a higher cap number than Kenneth Murray? It's not in the CBA. You've never seen, like I do screenshots of the draft, how much the draft class. I never said in there that I never put down positions, all right? And the guy who said it, right, I don't want to embarrass him, right? But the guy said he follows me on Twitter. I'm like, how do you not? I must have said three or four. I must have sent three or four screenshots of the draft class.

Must have said that. I've never once said it mattered in all my timeline. It didn't matter what position you're in, all right? And it's the same thing like today. Like one of my followers, he said it will cost $5 million to sign the draft class. I'm like, you must have seen me say it's going to cost him less than $2.5 million like 10 to 15 times this year. Why would you say $5 million?

I'm like, okay. So I'm going to get that off my chest. And the other big thing literally is undrafted free agent guarantees. Yeah, those guys have a lot of guaranteed money, but it never really matters in the bottom line. I'm a Patriots fan, so I don't go to 31 other teams. I don't follow them as much as I follow the Patriots. I've never once – Bill Belichick has made it rather clear

through his transactional history, it matters what you do on the field. All right? Malcolm Butler got zero guaranteed money as an undrafted free you do on the field. All right? Right. Malcolm Butler got zero guaranteed money as an undrafted free agent, made the team. Andrew Beck got the most guaranteed money out of any undrafted free agent in one year, over $100,000. Did not make the team. All right.

I've never seen one time, Mike, not one time, not one time, a correlation between how much guaranteed money an undrafted free agent gets and their likelihood of making the team. And so now it cracks me up. The beat writers will mention this guy got $80,000 guaranteed money. Who cares? Because literally the team is either if the player makes the team, that guaranteed money doesn't really matter.

If he doesn't make the team and he goes on to your practice squad, you just prepaid his money because the Patriots get a credit on a 2021 cap because of that, because of the offset. If he signs – if he's claimed by someone else on waivers, your responsibility for his guaranteed salary goes away. All right? So it doesn't matter how much – I tell you, when you're trying to predict who's going to make the roster on week one,

do not take into consideration how much guaranteed – are you an undrafted free agent, God has guaranteed money. It doesn't matter. What matters is what they do on the field during training camp and what they do practices and what they do in the meetings. That matters. And I'm so glad that you said that. Last year when I did my roster projections,

we had talked about this and you had enlightened me about that. And actually I think my roster prediction last year was about the the i would say probably about as close as i've ever gotten and i thank you for that so again i didn't mean to steal your thunder but i did want to interject there and just thank you for that and thank you for enlightening our listeners because that is a common myth that i do hear out there and i was hoping that you would debunk that. Continue, my friend. I'm enjoying this. Okay. All right. I swear, I love coming on, Mike, because getting the set of the record straight, I just like doing that.

And people, like some people, like, for example, early this year, people put down that Joe tweeted out Joe Tooney's franchise tenga didn't count until he signed it. That's incorrect, folks. That was incorrect. A couple people took it. Yeah, some people took it the right way, didn't like me doing it.

Some people say I shouldn't do that. I should DM the person. I'm like saying, well, first of all, my DMs are open to anyone. All right? So why, if you're going to put out publicly incorrect information, why am I then obligated to address you privately? You know what I'm saying? I think it's like if you want me, like, if you know, you've seen me, especially Pete Vitus, you've seen me do what I do.

If I put out, I see incorrect information about the Patriot salary cap, I'm not shy about, quote, getting the information incorrectly. If that's a problem for you folks, then DM me first. I'm like, my DMs are open. You should see my friends will tell you I got a lot of DMs from people. Some people DM me, some people don't. And then don't get mad that I'm like, I corrected you, all right? You know, it cracked me up the other day.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I knew, like, for example, I didn't know one player's number, and I can't remember the story. But I knew that Ben Volan had it because he has access to the NFPA. So I just guessed on his timeline. And then he tells me I was wrong. I'm like, well, I don't care I was wrong. I just wanted to correct information. I was like, well, I don't care I was wrong. I just wanted the correct information.

I was like, I really don't have an ego. I don't have a problem saying I'm wrong because my wife would tell you I'm always wrong. All right. Well, when it comes to the cap, you're much more right than you are wrong, my friend. I can't speak for other aspects in your life. I don't have that kind of insight, folks. But, you know, that's why I'm bringing him on here. Continue, buddy.

Okay, so let's talk about the other thing I want to talk about that I get asked a lot is about the 2021 cap and how much cap space they will have. And I, right now, can't answer that question. And people say they're going to get $100 million. They're going to be $100 million on the cap. And I'm saying, I don't know how people can say that. Because right now,

in order to say that, you have to know what the cap is going to be in 2020, what the lead cap is. And I don't know how anyone can say that, especially under this environment. Because that lead cap comes from revenue. It's from revenue. And we don't know how many games they're going to be played this year.

And we especially don't know how many games they're going to be played in front of fans. Revenue affects the league cap. If they don't have 16 games in front of every – and all of them are not in front of all the fans, that league cap number, it might not be what it was this year. There might be a chance it gets lower. So if it's not $198.2 million, like, and it goes low because we're in a recession, all right,

then I don't see how the pitch can get to $100 million in cap space, especially if we're having a recession. And I'll tell you this, like the Cap is crap crowd, I'll ask, they don't mention at the beginning of this new CBA, teams had, they knew the NFL and the NFLPA knew it would be difficult for teams to adjust to the new CBA during a recession. All right? So what happened?

They allowed teams to borrow money, cap space, in the beginning of the CBA, and they had to pay it back near the middle. If you had followed me on Twitter, if you had followed me on Patsfans.com, you would see that every year I would put down, I don't know, I couldn't nail down if the Patriots borrowed money in 2011, 2012 because they didn't make it known publicly. I thought they did. I thought they did. So I wasn't 100 percent sure, but I was going to – I'd be willing to bet it was there, but they actually paid that back.

All right? So the cap of crap doesn't mention that. But imagine that. So the NFL and the CBA knew how difficult it is to work within the cap, and they allowed teams to borrow against it. So now let's imagine this next year. We have a recession. And let's say they think it's a recession for a couple years.

They might allow teams. The NFL might prop up the cap. Maybe it should really be $170 million, but they'll make it $198 million. All right. But they'll borrow that cap space from future years. That might happen, but none of us know right now what could happen. So I'm like, am I going to really get to try to guess at that number when I know the biggest influence on that number is so unknown?

You know what I'm saying? And the other thing, there's a lot of things that go into a team's cap space. And one thing is good to know is how many rookies make this team. You know what I'm saying? Because we know that draft class is going to take up caps. That draft class, they're going to either be on a 2012 cap number as salary or as dead money. All right?

All right. And let's just say the biggest thing that's going to happen for 2021 is incentives. All right? All right. And let's just say the biggest thing that's going to happen for 2021 is the centers. All right? Let's say that Julian does his thing this year. All right? Gets another 100 receptions this year and finally gets named to the Pro Bowl. Right.

All right? Okay? That increases his cap number in 2021 by $500,000. Wow. So there are incentives out there. Players in the Patriots have a lot of players with incentives. All right? If a good number of them make their non-likely-to-be-earned incentives,

that's good. The Patriots' 2021 cap is going to get debited. And I'll say this. For example, and it could hurt them twice as much, because if that player has a contract for 2021, not only do you get, for example, if he makes the Pro Bowl,

that $250,000 Pro Bowl bonus is actually going to hurt the Patriots' caps $500,000 in 2021. Why $500,000? Why twice as much? Because A, the Patriots will get debited for a player earning a non-likely-to-be incentive, and Edelman's settlement incentive will be considered likely to be earned, so it will be part of his increased cap number.

So a $250,000, an earned $250,000, not likely to be an incentive this year, is actually worth, hurts the cap by $500,000, not likely to be earned this year, is actually worth, hurts the cap, by $500,000 next year. Now, you do that for a couple of players, that's some big money. That is. Really, it truly is. Yeah, and for example, if we don't know, let's just say they don't reach an extension with J.C. Jackson. All right? We know for a fact that he's got an RFA tendril. All right?

That's not on that $100 million cap thing. All right? Right. Let's say they extend Joe Tooney. All right? Right now, Joe Tooney counts $0 in the 2021 cap. You extend him, he might cost him anywhere from $10 to $15 million. That's not part of that $100 million.

All right? You do that for a couple more, reach more, a couple of incentives. Let's just say they signed someone, the Patriots signed someone tomorrow. All right? He signs a two-year deal. That's not in the cap right now. That $100 million that people have been talking, quickly, especially if they go down and it's less than next year's cap, goes from $198 this year to $175,

that $100 million could be actually $50 million. Like, you know, it really doesn't take that much. And, you know, if they have a bad entry year, that could easily be true. Wow. Sorry, sorry. You know what I'm saying? No, no, no. So that's my rant because people ask me that, and I feel bad I don't answer it

because literally I'm trying to say, well, we're trying to be positive and trying to get through these tough times, I don't really want to put out there, like, yeah, if there's no games, you forget that $100 million. And it's a funny thing is the $100 million is for 30 players on the team, all right? Well, in March, we know for a fact every team is going to have 51 players on the team all right well in march we know for a fact every team's gonna have 51 players on the team right you're saying so like so there was like 12 million dollars that's 12 million dollars the players that i'm counting for i'm like come on you know saying so i was like oh yeah absolutely yeah and again got to address one more. Can I do one more? Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead.

A good follower, Claire Cooper, asked me, why is Joe Tooney on the roster? Why are they donating so much money to the cat position? And like I said this before, I think when I was on here, as soon as people – Mike had said Joe Tooney about being on the roster for 2020. I thought he was gone. I never thought they were the folks. I didn't think they were going to tag him because I thought he was going to get it. I didn't expect it either.

I didn't expect it at all. So after they tagged him, they said the nice things. They got to say, well, look, reach a long-term deal. Folks, that's what they have to say. I'm not giving them credit for saying something because they really shouldn't say, yeah, we want to trade him because that goes against the spirit of the tag. They're not going to say, no teams will say, no, we tagged the player just to trade him because that goes against the spirit

of the tag. So, of course, they're going to say, to say yeah we want to reach long-term deal um i every literally this is like a 50 50 thing you can make a case for extending them you can make a case for trading them all right i think they're still going to extend them i just think now their deadline is january july 4 p.m. July 15th. I'm asking, I swear, I'm like this close to asking my boss for that day off, because that's the day he's going to get extended. And you know what, folks? We may live to see that, and that may end up being the factor in what happens with Joe Tooney. The gods may end up

aligning to make sure that Miguel has that day off so he can enlighten us all with his wisdom and counsel. But my friend, what can I say? Thank you so much for providing all of the insight that you provide, whether it be Joe Tooney, whether it be the Patriots rookie class, whether it be undrafted free agents,

you've hit it all and you've hit it all with class and accuracy. And I can't thank you enough for always taking the time out to come on here on the Locked On Patriots and to lend your wisdom and counsel. Folks, again, one of the greatest Twitter follows anywhere in the Twitterverse, at Pat's Cap. You all know where to find him. Every single tweet that's out there, I hang on the man's every word, and he always keeps me informed and makes me look just a little smarter

than I really am. So from the bottom of my heart, heart my friend thank you so much for coming on stay safe anytime stay well and always always remember you have a whenever you need to come on and set the record straight no one does it better buddy thank you so much my favorite is my favorite portion of the podcast i gotta get those things off my chest mike thank you for allowing me to do so because It's my favorite portion of the podcast. I got to get those things off my chest, Mike. Thank you for allowing me to do so because it just bugs me that, you know, people would say, especially I guess it was on a radio show, that the Patriots couldn't afford to draft a quarterback. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. I'm like, people ask me questions on Twitter.

I'm so into the salary cap that I have a hard time sometimes understanding what people are saying, understanding because I'm into the weeds, so I feel bad I have to ask them to put it in other ways. But I'm like, really, I just – that part blew my mind because I just never thought that someone would actually put that out there. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, saying that, that cracks me up. I'm like, oh, they make me shake my head sometimes. You know what I'm saying?

Well, and that is just one of the things that you set the record straight on, my friend, today. So I appreciate it. Once again, folks, at Pat's Cap, the best in the business. Always remember that whenever he needs to voice his opinion and set the record straight, he does so here on Locked On Patriots. And I am thrilled that he chooses this as his platform to do it. Again, my friend, stay safe, stay well. And look forward to talking to you again very soon here on the Lockdown Patriots

podcast but all right take care guys bye-bye God bless Patriots fans that concludes this week's session of Patriots Capology 101 with your professor the Patriots Cap Top Gun Miguel Benzon it is always both my honor and my privilege to have Miguel join me here on Locked On Patriots. I always enjoy his candor, his insight, and I always learn so much when he's here to both enlighten us on the Patriots salary cap situation and set the record straight on so many of those inaccuracies and myths we see circulating all throughout Patriots social media and throughout the national media. Again, Miguel is so good at tracking the Patriots' salary cap because that's where he's immersed.

He's not worried about the other 31 NFL teams. He's focused squarely on your New England Patriots. And I don't hesitate to say that he is the very best at doing what he does. But fear not, folks, because there is still plenty more to talk about when it comes to the Patriots building their 2020 roster. Like, what are they going to do with all of those undrafted free agents? Well, for insight on all of those newest undrafted New England Patriots, be sure to join me here tomorrow on Locked On Patriots,

where I will be welcoming in my good friend Steve Balistrieri of Patsfans.com, and we'll discuss who among those undrafted free agents will be the best fits in Foxborough. I'll also be providing my breakdown of the Patriots all-decade team for the 2010s, which is scheduled to be released on Thursday afternoon. Who deserve their spots? Who are some of the snubs? And is there anyone on this current roster that could make the 2020 decade team? Folks, again, we are just scratching the surface when it comes to Patriots draft content

and 2020 season content. So be sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, follow us on Spotify, and don't forget, you can always listen to Locked On Patriots right on your own smart device. How do you do that? Very simple. Simply ask it to play the latest episode of Locked On Patriots. And if you've enjoyed today's episode, now tell your smart device to play the latest episode of the Draft Dudes.

Once again, I'm Mike DeBate. I thank Miguel Benzon for his time, his insight, and his appearance for the last two days straight here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. But most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for staying locked into Locked On Patriots. Stay safe, stay well, and have a great day, everyone.