Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - The Lazar Lowdown: New England Patriots Training Camp Primer - 7/24/2020

Episode Date: July 24, 2020

The countdown to the start of New England Patriots’ Training Camp can now be tracked by hours instead of days. Still, the shape of the final roster is anyone’s guess. Joining host Mike D’Abate is Evan Lazar of CLNS Media. The duo discuss the importance of Cam Newton to the Pats’ success in 2020, the depth on the offensive line, the prowess at the linebacker position, and the biggest challenges New England will face when evaluating talent amidst an unusual Training Camp this year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patriots fans, you are now locked in to the Locked On Patriots Podcast. I'm going to show you how to make a beautiful and beautiful flower. I'm going to use a small flower pot. I'm going to use a small pot Hello to all of you, Foxborough faithful. It is finally Friday here on the Lockdown Patriots Podcast, your daily home for news notes and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the

New England Patriots. TGIF, Patriots Nation, thank you for tuning into today's pod. My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Locked On Patriots podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And folks, because it's your team every day, that means your questions, comments, and feedback. Always welcomed and very much encouraged. Feel free to share that feedback anytime by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter at M-D-A-B-A-T-E-F-P-C. And while you're out there giving the Twitterverse that weekend nod and saying how you doing, be sure to follow the Lockdown Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots.

Patriots Nation, the weekend is within our sights. But you know what else is almost within our sights? That's right, folks. One of the moments we've all been waiting for since the end of the NFL season in January. NFL training camps open next week. And right now, your New England Patriots are scheduled to open camp on Tuesday, July 28th. Now here all week long on the pod, we've been previewing certain positional battles and potential matchups to watch for as the Patriots open training camp in Foxborough. We've talked about the tight ends, defensive line, the running backs,

the fullbacks, the defensive backs, even some wide receiver talk yesterday. But today I have a special treat for you. Here to close out the week on Locked On Patriots, by providing you with his infinite wisdom and counsel when it comes to the Patriots offensive line, the linebacker position. We're even going to delve into a little bit of quarterback talk. He is without question one of the best at what he does, folks, because he is truly immersed in football analysis.

My guest today is Evan Lazar of CLNS Media. And if you've kept recent tabs on Evan's work, and if not, folks, you should be, he recently ranked Cam Newton as the most important New England Patriot to the 2020 season. I'm going to pick his brain on that a little bit and ask him exactly what he means by it and why he's so confident in not only Cam's health,

but his ability to lead this team into the 2020 season. We'll also talk a little bit about his offensive line analysis and why, in addition to Joe Tooney coming back, Evan is also very confident on the depth of this offensive line, primarily in guys that were expected to play a major role last year. Because of injury, they really didn't have a chance to do so. Yelda Frohold, Yodney Kajust, we'll even get his impression on some of the rookie additions to this offensive line, like Michael Onwenu, Justin Heron, and Dustin Woodard.

Then, Evan and I will flip the script and we'll provide you with our insight on why the linebacker position could be the key to the Patriots continuing a dominant defense. How will rookies like Josh Uche and Anthony Jennings factor into the Patriots' linebacking core this year? Was there a particular veteran addition that caught his eye? And who might just be flying under the radar when it comes to potential impact players on this year's 2020 defense? And of course, to bring it all full circle, we'll talk about the numerous challenges being faced not just by the Patriots, but all 32 NFL teams when it comes to a shortened preseason, an elimination of

preseason games, and what this means for the Patriots coaching staff as they attempt to evaluate talent to build the best possible team they can this year. So for all this and more, be sure to sit tight, folks. Evan's analysis is always spot on, and I always relish the opportunity to meld my wisdom and counsel alongside his as we send you into your weekend here on the Locked On Patriots podcast with the most comprehensive coverage you'll find anywhere. But before I welcome Evan into the hot seat today, I need not remind you that we continue to march into the dog days of summer. And even though at this time next week we'll be ready to turn the page on the calendar to August,

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How did you hear about us, Us box so they know we sent you. Amazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. RockAuto.com. Patriots fans, the countdown to the start of training camp can now start being tracked by hours instead of days.

And exactly what the final roster will look like is anyone's guess. But when you need insight and intuition, even the best of us need to seek the wisdom of the source that is the best at answering those burning questions. Luckily for us, my guest today has those answers. He is one of the very best in the business when it comes to film breakdown, play-by-play analysis, and comprehensive team coverage overall. In fact, I'd say he's second to none in those departments. He is the beat writer for CLNS Media for your New England Patriots.

He is also the co-host of such great shows as Patriots Press Pass and the Patriots All-22 podcast. It is my honor to welcome my friend Evan Lazar here today. Evan, thank you so much for joining me. Welcome back to the Locked On Patriots podcast. Thanks for having me. Nobody gives me a better intro than you, Mike. I should have you record some promos for me and we can just run them every once in a

while. I really appreciate the kind words. Well, I assure you, first of all, they're well-deserved. And second of all, yeah, I try to pride myself on doing a pretty good promo, but I always speak from the heart and I assure you I speak from the head, I speak from the heart and all those words are definitely heartfelt and meant. You deserve them. The work that you provide is phenomenal and you never cease to amaze. So our honor to have you here today. And Evan, I don't think I'm over speaking when I say the Patriots offseason has changed

a little bit since our last chat here on the pod. Cam Newton has arrived in New England, both figuratively and literally right now. And the expectations for this team have, how shall we say, elevated, I guess is the best way for me to put it. In your recent rankings for CLNS, you ranked Cam as the most important player to the Patriots this year. And you've indicated your belief that you believe a quarterback competition, which we are being told is going to be legitimate. And I have no reason to disbelieve that. But your take on it is that it really isn't all that necessary if Cam is healthy.

And from everything we've seen, it appears that he is. In your estimation, my friend, why should the Patriots and their fans be confident in Cam's health, but more importantly, his ability to lead this team in the post-Tom Brady era? Well, I think with his health, you know, you look at the 2019 season where he did play two games, and his arm strength and his arm velocity, his ball velocity looked perfectly fine, right? You know, it looked like the shoulder was perfectly healthy, and unfortunately he just had the foot injury, and that's sort of what caught up to him and ended his season.

So as long as that foot is healthy, which doctors and cams people and Patriots people that I've spoken to have said that he's pretty much a hundred percent and ready to go. You know, he's had, he's a hundred percent healthy, but now he's had a little bit of a buildup here where he has to get up to that conditioning level to be at game speed. Right? So last person I spoke with said he's about 90% in terms of being up, ready to go for game speed. And then that last person I spoke with said he's about 90% in terms of being up ready to go for game speed. And then that last 10% should, you know, come here in the next month or so. And I think the biggest thing with Cam versus Stidham, and I'm not going to sit here and say that there's zero quarterback competition or, you know, Stidham has no chance to be the starter because that's

definitely not the case. But I think when you look at the way this offense played last year, and you look at the type of quarterback that Stidham is yeah he can run around a little bit but we're not talking about a Cam Newton we're not talking about a Lamar Jackson or a Dak Prescott we're talking for the most part about a stationary quarterback or a pocket quarterback right and you look at this offense and you look around them and you see okay you know really where did they improve all that much at the skill positions they got two rookie tight ends now. You hope in year two, Nikhil Harry is better than he was his rookie season. You hope Mohamed Sanu is better in year two with New England than he was at the trade

deadline or post-trade deadline, I should say. But at the end of the day, it's a lot of the same people. And if Tom Brady can't spread them out and go with that pinpoint accuracy, precision offense, timing offense with precise route running and everybody on the same page, and he can't get that offense to be in the top 10 in DVOA or to get out of the wildcard round, then what makes you think that Jared Stidham is going to be able to do it in year two, given his track record? I think that's a lofty expectation. So I think that what you were going to see with Stidham was a very managed

offense by the coaching staff and where he is really just a game manager looking not to screw things up and really run the scheme and run the system and not do too much outside of it. Now you bring in Cam and it changes the whole equation to me. And you look at the personnel that they have. I think that really what he brings out in that personnel is the art of deception, right? And that ability to who has the ball, who's running with the football is the quarterback. Is he handing it off?

Is he throwing it on an RPO? Is it a play action pass? Is it something that they can really move the quarterback outside the pocket? You know, where's the ball going to be and where's the launch point or the launch angle going to be for the quarterback when he is going to throw the football, all those types of things. I think cam brings the table that Stidham just simply didn't. So I look at this offense and I say, OK, they didn't go out there and trade for DeAndre Hopkins. They didn't trade for Stephon Diggs, which is perfectly fine.

But I don't think that they upgraded their skill positions enough to then expect a quarterback like Stidham when Brady struggled last year with that offense to then take it to a higher power, right? So I think that Cam really has a much better chance with that mobile quarterback element to play even in the box, to get the numbers back in their advantage, to be able to run schemes like zone read or gap read concepts or RPO concepts with the threat of a quarterback running. It just really takes your rushing attack from being good to being elite potentially. And really, I think that's what they need because they need that formula, Mike, of elite running game, elite defense, elite special teams, elite coaching. That has to be the way that this Patriots team stacks together wins.

And I think we kind of saw that. They tried to be like that last year. But without a mobile quarterback, it's very difficult to be a run-first team, truly, when you don't have a quarterback that's threatening the defense or holding the backside of the defense or accounting for somebody in the box. So I think that's really what Cam brings that Stidham doesn't. I think that Stidham, they could probably get away with him for a season and make him serviceable as the quarterback because it is Bill Belichick and it is Josh McDaniels. But I think, like you said, Cam just really increases that ceiling to a whole nother level. I agree with you. And I think those are great points. First of all, I like how you broke down the dichotomy between Jarrett Stidham

and Cam Newton, not necessarily taking away from what Jarrett can do on the field, but just understanding that Cam Newton offers a little bit more of an impressive upside due to his ability to work as a dual threat option. You said it, he has the arm talent to make every throw in the book. And I think that's something maybe he doesn't get enough credit for, but he also has that athleticism to challenge defenses with his legs. Not only can he successfully maneuver around the pocket from the footage that I've been watching, and admittedly, maybe I haven't been keeping a close eye on or as close of an eye on Cam as I should have prior to his signing here in New England. But the more I look at it, he does have the ability to maneuver around the pocket.

But he is that threat. And designed on those runs, those RPO concepts that you hinted at, the misdirection plays that I think the Patriots could insert. You know, Josh McDaniels loves to throw a couple of those at defenses every now and then. I think Cam provides them with the opportunity to do so. Look, there's no question about it. Jarrett is a guy that could run some of those RPOs, but there were challenges to him being able to do that, and I think you've articulated those quite nicely. He has the ability to maybe roll out,

cause a little bit of disruption in the pocket, make his reads, make his throws easier, and then take off if there was nothing else there. With Cam, it's kind of a little bit more of a guessing game. I think you're almost looking at defenses now saying, well, he rolled out of the pocket. Does that mean he's going to take off, or does that mean he can gun the ball down the field? I think he has a little bit more versatility there, and I think you're onto something when it comes to that. I really do believe that we are going to see some of the best from Cam Newton. Elite coaching, you mentioned, my friend. It's tough to get more elite than what we've got in New England right now, although some would argue that point, but I think we're pretty

much like-minded when it comes to that. I think he's going to be well-coached here in New England. Evan, a key component of success for any quarterback, whether it's Cam or whether it's Jarrett Stidham or Brian Hoyer, whoever takes snaps under center for the Patriots this year, they need adequate protection on the offensive line. And to be honest, I've been very vocal about my doubts about the sustainability of this offensive line. The starters are solid without any question.

When healthy, I think they have a pretty formidable offensive line. But the health of David Andrews is always going to be a concern in the back of my mind, not because I don't think he's healthy now. I think he's 100% healthy, but when you're dealing with a pandemic that affects the lungs, you don't know how that's going to affect his availability, even if he's not infected or at risk. He might, just the risk itself, might force him to miss some games. So that concerns me. The depth pieces are largely untested. And obviously Joe Tooney's return makes that line much better.

But thanks to your insight that I've been reading over the past few days, I'm feeling a lot better as the days go on. Largely in part to your insight on players like Yelda Frohold and Yanni Kajusti that did not play last season but came in here with a lot of hype. My friend, enlighten us in some of the hidden gems in this Patriots O-line depth chart. And who do you have your sharp eye on as we enter the 2020 season on the Patriots O-line? Yeah, you know, it's a good question because really their depth pieces last year, for instance, Ted Karras in the interior, that was a, even though he was on his rookie contract, that's a veteran depth piece, right?

A guy that's been around. Now they're going to have to rely on some young guys and some guys that they've drafted over the last couple of years, really. Three last year at the end of the draft and then two the year before to be those backups. And unfortunately, you know, for Kajus and Froholt to a degree as well, they just weren't able to stay healthy

their rookie seasons and be on the field. So we haven't really been able to see them even in practices or preseason games you know we saw yelda a little bit in the preseason but he ends up on ir as well so the good news is though is that you look at yelda we'll start with him he has the ability i think to play all three interior spots that they really needed him to i think he could snap the ball and play center if he had to but really his calling card is his athleticism and his foot speed and his ability to pass protect. And at Arkansas, he was one of the best pass protectors in the SEC.

And the tape that really turned me on to him was turning on Alabama versus Arkansas his last year down there. And he just really held his own against that interior defensive line for Alabama. And as you know, Mike, I mean, that interior line is always loaded at Bama. So they have a lot of really good players there. line for Alabama and as you know Mike I mean that interior line is always loaded at Bama so they have a lot of really good players there guys like Quinnen Williams was in the mix then and Froholt really held his own and you actually watch him in the middle and the rest of the offensive Arkansas offensive line has got breakdowns all over the place and you're looking at yourself you're like

who's that guy that's holding up though and it's held a fro hold so pass protection he's really really solid the issue that he's had is that he's from germany right we all know that but he didn't he only played high school and college football here in the state so he's relatively new to the sport in terms of technique and just kind of understanding his technique and he got a little bit sloppy last year during the preseason a lot of penalties, a lot of flags for him. And Dante Skarniecki really told me that the biggest thing with him was to really get him to stop being so wild with his technique and just calm him down a little bit and get him to play a little bit more under control with his body. So that's the next step for him. I think that he's

got all the athletic and physical tools in the world, the upside to be able to be a very good pass protector at this level, which at the end of the day to be able to be a very good pass protector at this level, which at the end of the day is really the starting point, I think, for most offensive linemen these days. And you have your great run blockers too, but I think that a lot of these guys, really teams love the guys that can really pass protect with the way the league is going. And I think Froholt can do that. He's to me, you know, he didn't play tackle in college like Joe Tooney did, but he reminds me a ton of a young Joe Tooney just the skill set right you know the athleticism the pass protection upside I think

that he has that ability to step in at left guard for Tooney if Tooney does get traded or if Tooney does leave in free agency next offseason now the tackle position I'm a little bit concerned about that as well just because we haven't seen Kajustan pads yet you know he didn't practice at all last year he was on the non-football list or pup or whatever it was for the entirety of the training camp and then ended up on IR so we never got to see him in live action so that's a little bit more of an uncertainty but when you watch Yanni Kajustan at West Virginia he's got great great hands independent hand usage and ability to really play that sort of hand to hand combat in the trenches with edge rushers that are rushing on him. He can swat the hands out of the way. He can punch guys right in the chest and really stymie them that way. He's got a strong, burly upper body and really good, heavy hands.

And that's really, I think, a great starting point for most tackles. And then from there, he does have the foot speed and the athleticism and the lateral mobility to move side to side and slide with guys and be able to get out in front and runs and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, he's a powerful man. And that's really where it starts for him. So I've always kind of seen him as more of a right tackle prospect for New England that Marcus Cannon mold, you know, they usually like to put the heavier guys and the guys that are the run blockers first on that right side and then the left side is usually the more athletic pass protecting upside guys you know soldier joe tooney guys like that so on the left side i think that could use could probably do it that's where he played at west virginia that he protected will greer's blind side his last year there but i think that on the right side is really where he's could

be have the highest upside here in new eng England scheme and it really starts with that hand usage in those heavy hands and you go and you watch his tape there's one little thing that I think that he'll have to really work on and that is at West Virginia they ran an air raid system there so they're getting the ball out extremely quickly a lot of them are predetermined reads you know wide receiver screens or quick hitters or whatever or the quarterback already knows where he's going with the football before it's really even snapped. So the depth of his patch says we're not as deep as they're going to be at the pro level. You know, he's not doing any five-step drops at West Virginia. This is all kind of balls out of the quarterback's hands in a very quick fashion. So he's not really setting to a very good depth all the time. So he's going to

have to get used to that. He's going to have to get used to that. He's going to have to get used to some of the different kind of splits and ways that they align guys in the NFL versus doing it at the college level and some of those spread systems that are really just looking to throw the ball down the field. But at the end of the day, I think that both of those guys have a ton of upside. And the guys that they drafted this year, you know, Unwenu is a guy that I absolutely love because anytime you have a bulldozer like that, it's a lot of fun, right?

You know, you turn on tape, you see a 375 pound guy moving people off the line of scrimmage. Like it's going out of style, you know, double team blocks, combo box, moving up to the second level, really just getting up to linebackers and just engulfing them with his size at that second level. And he's got a little bit more speed and athleticism to him than you would expect for a guy of that size. And then he also told us right after the draft, after the Patriots

selected him in the sixth round, that he was dropping weight. So he's a little bit closer now to about 340, where he played at about 370 last year at Michigan. So it's going to come in a little bit lighter. Hopefully that will upgrade his pass protection a little bit. He did have some issues with speed guys, with guys getting over his edges and things like that but if he can clean all of that up then i think he'll be okay and the last one i just mentioned quickly is dustin woodard the memphis center who they picked up in the seventh round who's basically a carbon copy from an athletic profile standpoint of david andrews it's actually pretty scary they're pretty much the same height and the same weight coming out of college. And they have a very, very similar skill set. Now I'm not going to say that

Woodard's going to turn into David Andrews because that's lofty expectations, but Andrews was an undrafted rookie. Woodard was a seventh round pick. He really graded a very highly in pro football focuses system there his last couple of years there at Memphis. And I think that he's got that athletic ability in that really outside zone running scheme that they there at Memphis. And I think that he's got that athletic ability in that really outside zone running scheme that they run at Memphis is a wide open running game that they use. And they have a lot of athletic blocks in there, guys that have to reach blocks, get to the second level, get out in space and block and Woodard did a really good job of all of that.

So I think that those four guys right there, including Justin Heron too, I think that he's got some upside at tackle and guard, but I think that those guys really make up a very good, good good good backup unit the issue is is that they're just inexperienced yeah and I think experience this year is going to be something that's so telltale especially with the lack of preparation time no OTAs no rookie mini camps uh no preseason games to speak about and folks we will get to that in a, but I'm glad that you made some points, particularly on Kajust, because he is a guy that when I was covering, we covered that, you know, draft, you know, together at the Patriots media room.

And when Kajust was drafted, I get a text message from one of my colleagues at the time at full press coverage that said, you guys just got Kajust. That's not fair. And I had to look up a lot of what they were referring to in his time at West Virginia. And naturally, there's injury concerns there. But he's proven that he can bounce back pretty nicely from injuries. And by all accounts, he looks to be 100%. I know a lot of media outlets have reported that he'll be good to go and at full health

when the Patriots open camp next week. He bounced back strongly after a 2015 knee injury and a 2016 torn ACL. Along the way, he was named to two All-Big 12 teams at West Virginia, second team All-American, didn't surrender a sack during his senior campaign, and started the final 23 straight games of his college career. So this is not a guy that takes injuries and just sits down and is not able to come back from them. I think there's a lot to really be excited about when it comes to his ability. You mentioned a lot of what he brings to the table,

but I think durability is a question on Kajust. And to me, I think there are some reasons to be optimistic in that regard. I also like that you mentioned the rookies, two guys that I have a particular sharp eye on. On Wainu, I absolutely love that. You mentioned his size, his athletic ability. I'm absolutely in

awe of this guy's wingspan. You mentioned being able to control linebackers and pass rushers. I can't imagine there's going to be too many opportunities or too many instances once he comes into his own of guys being able to beat him when it comes to coverage. Just his massive wingspan alone is something to marvel at. And, you know, Heron and obviously Woodard intrigues me a lot because of the center position. And I'm glad that you made the comparison to Andrews because I do see a lot of comparisons and a lot of similarities in his game. Obviously, the experience, again, is going to need to be paramount. And will the Patriots look for potential or will they side on the side of experience this year?

They've always been the team that does what's best for the football team, regardless of your experience, regardless of your pedigree. If they like what they see on the field, they're going to roll with you. And it'll be interesting to see if they continue that this year, especially with the shortened preseason and abbreviated preseason that we're having. I'm glad that you brought up the Kajus draft story because I had him as a top 50 prospect in that draft when I did my big board. And the reason why he fell out into the third round was because of the injuries, as you mentioned. But on tape, as a player, he was one of the five, six best tackles in that draft. And they really did get

a steal. And I thought they got a pretty big steal with Unwenu too, I thought, who would have gone higher on day three and ended up falling all the way to the sixth round so both those guys I graded out a lot higher than they ended up going absolutely you know what nothing like a little proverbial Foxborough chip on your shoulder to kind of bring out the uh the talent and to bring out the desire uh in you this year maybe those guys use it as motivation who knows but uh folks you are absorbing the elite wisdom and counsel of Evan Lazar of CLNS Media. And we've spoken about the Patriots' offense in depth, as only Evan can. But what about that potentially top-ranked defense in Foxborough?

As we've talked about many times here on the pod, they have had some key members depart, especially at the linebacker position. Have the Patriots done enough to compensate for those losses? Well, folks, I'll ask Evan that very question and more when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Once again, Patriots fans, I am joined by Evan Lazar of CLNS Media. And Evan, the Patriots have had a great amount of success on defense in the last couple of years, primarily last year, due to being solid in all three components.

They had a dominant secondary, a stout front line, and a pretty versatile linebacking core. Particularly at linebacker, though, they have suffered some losses. Kyle Vannoy, Jamie Collins, Alandon Roberts headline that group. That could change the complexity of the defense this year. And as you look at this unit, who should we be watching a bit closer than others on the defensive side of the ball when it comes to the Patriots' strategy for 2020?

And who do you think might emerge as the next rising star for this linebacking, sort of edge-rushing core that the Patriots are trying to put together for 2020? Well, when you look at approximate value, which is a pro football reference number, the Patriots lost in Kyle Vannoy and Jamie Collins, the two most valuable players that were left in free agency from their current teams. So they've lost a ton of talent on that side of the ball. And I think that it is something that's been sort of under-talked about because we are excited about the young guys that they have at those positions behind them. You know, Juwan Bentley, Chase Winovich, Uche and Jennings, who they just drafted this year. But the guy that I want to mention here, you know, John Simon, I think, is a given, right? You know, I think Patriots fans know him enough. But the guy that I want to mention is Brandon Copeland, who they brought over from the Jets

in free agency, who is that versatile kind of Van Noy on the line, off the line type of linebacker. And in the season when there's really not going to be much training camp and there's not going to be much buildup to week one, I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots go with a veteran player in Copeland over some of the younger guys like a Jennings or an Uche who just don't have the experience currently in the system, especially with pads on, to be able to go out there and play meaningful snaps in week one. Copeland's the type of guy, like I said, he can play on the line, he can play off the line. In the Jets system, he was doing all sorts of coverage responsibilities

from off the line, dropping it back all the way to the deep half of the field in some instances, playing the deep hole in cover two, which was a big scheme for them. You know, doing a lot of different types of things in coverage and in space because he is an athletic linebacker who also plays on a lot of different special teams units in the kicking game and can cover kicks extremely well too. So if they need to go with a veteran option or a guy that's just been around because some of the younger guys aren't ready to play I think that Copeland's are really someone that has kind of

gone under the radar that typical Bill Belichick signing right yeah nobody's really heard of this guy but he can kind of fit this system and fit this scheme and Belichick will find a spot for him but in terms of who has the best upside or the best chance in particular, I think to replace Van Noy, who led the team last year in quarterback pressures and was really their most disruptive player at the end of the line is Chase Winovich. And if you look at his rookie season, he basically produced at the same rate that Kyle Van Noy did as a pass rusher, just with less snaps, right? And the difference is, is that Vannoy plays on all three downs. So Chase Winovich is only coming in and pass rush situations when he can pin his ears back and he knows he's going to get after the

passer. So the question is, is when Winovich starts to play on first and second down a little bit more often, can he still be that dynamic pass rusher, even when he has to start thinking about stopping the run as well? But I think that he's really got the skill set and the upside there. We saw it all last year. You know, the motor is obviously excellent, but the technique is pretty good too. So you combine those two things, and I think that they really did find a steal in Winovich in the third round. So I would look at him to be the guy that comes in and really replaces a lot of the

pass rushing that they lost from Van Nooyen Collins. And then maybe Copeland's the type of guy that can be that just steady Eddie, like a John Simon, that they can put at the end of the line, especially on early downs to play the strength of the formation, to hold up against the run and do different things like that. And then obviously they have a couple of different rookies here that I think are really exciting. Uche is the type of player that will also probably play a little bit on, a little bit off the ball as well. and he has that versatility to him,

but he's a great pass rusher, kind of rushes the passer, similar to how Winovich does with that speed to rush, speed to power type of rush, but also that speed and dip rush where they can really get underneath tackles and sneak underneath guys and turn the corner and be tight and be flexible and things like that. That's really exciting. And then Jennings on the other side is a little bit more of that Van Nooy mold of that sturdy, strong, burly type of guy that can also have a little bit of pass rush upside. And then don't sleep on

Cash Molai. I know he's a six round pick. I know he kind of gets lost in some of these other rookies that they picked up, but I really enjoyed watching his tape because he plays like his hair is on fire. He is sideline to sideline. He's a terrific athlete. He's great in coverage. He's great in space. But particularly against the run, his ability to really go sideline to sideline from off the ball. You know, Hightower and Bentley are great players.

Hightower can probably do everything really well, I would say. Bentley is, though, more in your phone booth, you know, kind of coming forward all the time, where I do think that a guy like Moai has that upside at the end to really be a little bit more of that athletic type that goes and cleans up the trash. And I think that he's also going to play a little bit in the kicking game as well. But I do expect him to lean on the vets. You know, Hightower is obviously going to play a lot no matter what. But Bentley, Simon, Copeland, I think that those guys will have a role. And then also, like I've been writing all offseason, Mike,

don't forget about the safeties playing in the box, right? Patrick Chung, Adrian Phillips, Kyle Duggar potentially, if that's the role that they want to carve out. Terrence Brooks is obviously still around. Those guys are going to be playing a ton of linebacker this year. And you look at the Patriots' schedule, and I wrote about this about a month ago, I think it was. They have a ton of

mobile quarterbacks on the schedule right Russell Wilson's on the schedule Lamar Jackson's on the schedule Kyler Murray's on the schedule they got to play all these guys and the answer to me that Belichick is sort of putting out there is that maybe they are going to insert some of those defensive backs in linebacker positions and put that speed on that field and that athleticism on that field to then go and run with guys like Lamar and guys like Wilson and Kyler. So that's going to be the fun part, I think, is how does this defensive backfield, which goes two or three deep at some positions and in corner,

it's the deepest cornerback group in the entire NFL, how are they going to insert some of these guys into the box, not only to just cover tight ends and running backs and slot receivers, but also track these mobile quarterbacks that they're going to face almost on a week-to-week basis. It's like 10 or 11 of the weeks that they play, they have some quarterback that's going to be on the other side that can move a little bit. So it's going to be interesting to see what Belichick does there.

Yeah, and I think you make excellent points. I'm glad that you mentioned Malouet because he's somebody that I think is being forgotten a lot in this draft and his motor that you mentioned several times just is something that allows him to be a factor in every play that he's in. So keep a sharp eye there, folks. I think that that's definitely one of the Patriots draftees that may not be getting a whole lot of press, but I think he's going to deserve it. And in a normal year where you would have preseason games, I think he could be one of those guys that could turn heads and really garner some of the spotlight.

Some of the players that you've mentioned have been getting a lot of attention. And I agree with the points that you've made so much on guys like Chase Winovich and the rookies like Josh Uche or Ganferney Jennings. I think they're going to add a lot of athleticism, maybe a different dynamic to some of these positions. And I think these guys can really do some great things. But I'm so glad that you mentioned Brandon Copeland because this to me is one of the typical Patriots signings.

Like you said, under the radar, not a whole lot of fanfare around it. A lot of people are not really looking at Copeland as being a tremendous addition. But I am really intrigued by his versatility. I don't think it can be denied. I know he was more successful playing as an edge defender than an off the ball linebacker the last two years in New York, but he moves easily between his assignments. Especially he can serve as that jack of all trades option along the Patriots front seven. You know Bill Belichick loves versatility there. I think Brandon Copeland can bring that. Whether he's playing against the pass or the run, I think he's been adept at doing both.

Add in his special teams role that you articulated very well, and I think you get a very versatile player. So he's kind of that X factor that I'm looking at, maybe the under-the-radar type signing that could end up paying dividends. And again, especially because of the year that we're in, my friend, this year, I think that veteran leadership and that ability to come in and grasp a concept, have the NFL experience, is going to be so paramount. And that really leads me quite nicely into my final question for you today, Bud.

And we all know the challenges that are likely to arise from a suspended preseason slate. The younger players, the undrafted rookies, the roster bubble guys, they all have an uphill climb to making NFL rosters this year. And the Patriots are really no different. In your estimation, what do you think is going to be the biggest challenge to the Patriots in building their roster this year, most notably when it comes to evaluating talent during this year's camp? Well, I think the hardest part is that they are expecting a little bit from this rookie class,

and unfortunately, it's a year where that's going to be extremely difficult, but you look on the offensive side of the ball, they need something out of those two rookie tight ends, right? If they're going to get to their ceiling offensively, they need either Asiasi or Keane to really break out and have a good rookie year, or either one of those guys ready with the lack of snaps that they're going to get in the preseason with zero for preseason games, but also just padded practices. Right. And how which is just crazy to me. The NFL is saying eight padded practices before week one. Eight. That's just that's just I don't know how you can be a rookie player and get up to speed in that amount of time. Right. I know that they've had the virtual meetings. I know that they've been in the classroom and learning and taking mental reps, but it's a completely different game once you put the pads on.

And then at that point, you know, really learning techniques, honing fundamentals, that type of stuff. That's what comes in those training camp practices to build a foundation so that later in the season, you can start scheming, right? And you can start really doing different things and being creative and stuff like that. If you don't get that practice time to build the core concepts and build the base, then that's really what hurts you later in the year to be able to be a little bit more versatile and do a couple of different things. So I think that's going to be the hardest part is where do they lean?

Do they keep Matt LaCoste and Ryan Izzo around to have that veteran kind of stopgap for those tight ends? Do they keep a lot more of these veteran players on the defensive side of the ball this year? In particular, guys like Dietrich Wise, who might be on kind of the bubble. Derek Rivers, who's certainly on the bubble. Do they keep those guys around, too, because they're not expecting anything from that rookie class? I think that's sort of the biggest question mark going in is, what does Bill Belichick think that he can get out of these first and second year players, especially those second year guys that didn't play in their first years, you know, the offensive linemen that we talked about, for example. So what does Belichick think he can get out of that group?

Does he think that it's going to be fine and it's going to be sort of normal and this is sort of being overblown? Or does he think that this is kind of a lost season for a lot of those younger players that haven't had the opportunity? I think that that's really the biggest question. And luckily for this Patriots team, even though they are sort of getting younger in certain spots and they're starting to funnel in some of these draft classes, they do have a ton of veteran leadership and a ton of veteran players still where their starting lineups are pretty much all veteran guys, right? You know, the first 11 guys off the bench on the defensive side of the ball are going to be veteran names for the most part. And they don't need these rookies necessarily to step in right away.

But I think that they would love it if they could offer that upside because some of these guys do really have great skill sets and great kind of athletic ability and sort of things that they're really kind of honed in on in the last couple drafts so I'm excited to see how it turns out in terms of early on in the season my guess is it's going to be a little bit sloppy it's going to be a little bit bland you know kind of like the preseason where it's not a ton of scheming going on there's not a ton of that because they're really still trying to learn the system and learn each other but then later on in the season I think it will probably end up looking similar to what it always does.

You know, once they get a few games under their belt, once they kind of take the pads and hit each other a little bit more too, I truly think that by Thanksgiving, we're probably going to see the same level of football that as we would have, even if there was a preseason. Folks, insight like you've heard today is insight you can only find

by following and reading Evan's work. Phenomenal stuff, my friend. I completely agree with you on the challenges that the Patriots are going to be facing in this off an opportunity and a vehicle to do so. Doesn't mean they won't. I still hold out hope that an undrafted rookie free agent will still crack the roster this year and keep that 16-year streak alive. But if there is a year that it might be challenged, it might be this one because Bill Belichick is not a guy that's going to just throw a guy on the roster to keep a streak alive. I don't think he really cares about that. I've actually seen that be a narrative, believe it or not, my friend, but at the very least, at the very least, I do believe that they will do what's best for the football team. And they do have a good amount of veteran

leadership, some young, exciting players, and we're all looking forward to seeing it. And one of the best parts about it is your coverage of training camp, my friend. We'll all have our sharp eye. Folks, definitely, I can't recommend following Evan and the work he does for CLNS Media highly enough. Before I let you go, my friend, please let all of our listeners know where they can find you and where they can always read and absorb your great work. Absolutely. You can find me at clnsmedia.com, on Twitter at EZLazar, L-A-Z-A-R. Make sure to go follow our Patriots Press Pass channel on YouTube that Mike mentioned off the top. That's where we have all of our videos, daily videos up there,

live Q&As on Tuesdays and Fridays. And we do a lot of different interactive stuff with you guys and are trying to get your questions and trying to get your input and stuff like that. So go follow the YouTube channel. Sealandlessmedia.com is where you can read all of my written work. And, yeah, I mean, hopefully we'll be out there for training camp in a couple weeks. That's what I mean, hopefully we'll be out there for training camp in a couple of weeks. That's what I'm praying to the football gods for, Mike.

And hopefully they'll let us all in and we'll be able to all witness practice like we normally do. And we can give that insight to the fans that I know this is my favorite time of year. It's the best access of the year. It's the only time we get to watch practice. So I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah, we always do. And from your lips to God's ears my

friend hopefully everyone will stay safe stay well and we'll get as much football on the field this year as we possibly can but I appreciate you coming on today my friend always always my honor to absorb your wisdom and counsel and to have you here as my guest we look forward to having you back throughout the season and again folks please follow evan the great work that he does for clns can't recommend the work that he does highly enough as well as his colleagues mike petraglia sierra goodwill all of the great writers and analysts they have at clns some of the best coverage you'll find anywhere in all four boston sports but of course patriot centric here we did we look at things with a foxborough focus and a foxborough lens and this man provides that so well. Thank you again, my friend. You stay safe and stay well, and we'll talk to you very

soon. Same to you, Mike. Thanks for having me on. And so, folks, we tie a knot on the week that was here on the Lockdown Patriots podcast. And as you prepare to head into the weekend, just remember that each day that passes is one day closer to Patriots football. NFL training camps, including that of your New England Patriots folks, open Tuesday, July 28th. And right here on Locked on Patriots, we will continue to bring you the most comprehensive coverage when it comes to the latest news, notes, analysis, roster insight, and of course the occasional opinion as a new era in Patriots football gets set to kick off. So if you want to ensure that you do not miss a single episode of Locked On Patriots this

or any other week, the best way to do so is to subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Spotify. Download Locked On Patriots wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, you can always listen to the Locked On Patriots podcast right on your very own smart device. How do you do so? Very simple. Just ask it to play the latest episode of Locked on Patriots.

Once again, folks, my name is Mike DeBate. I thank Evan Lazar of CLNS Media for his time, his insight, and his appearance today. But most of all, I thank you so much for listening, for making this podcast a part of your daily Patriots coverage, and of course, for staying locked into Locked on Patriots. Stay safe. Stay well. Continue to be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great weekend, everyone. coverage, and of course for staying locked into Locked On Patriots. Stay safe, stay well, continue to be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great weekend, everyone.