Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - There Goes the Judge: Pats Coaching Staff Loses a Key Member - 1/7/2020

Episode Date: January 7, 2020

The New England Patriots are in need of a new Special Teams Coordinator and Wide Receivers Coach as Joe Judge is headed to the Meadowlands to become the new head coach of the Giants. Patricia Traina Of Locked On Giants joins host Mike D’Abate to discuss the hiring of Judge, and Mike gives his take on what this means for the Patriots.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello to all you Foxborough faithful, and welcome to your Coaching Carousel Tuesday episode of Locked On Patriots, your daily home for news, notes, analysis, and the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. My name is Mike DeBate, and I am your host of Locked On Patriots, which of course is a part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Please feel free to reach out to me and follow me on Twitter at MDABATEFPC. And be sure to follow Locked On Patriots on Twitter at LO underscore Patriots. Folks, I know some of you are tuning in today expecting Takeaway Tuesday,

and I am so grateful for all of the great questions that we received this week in the mailbag. However, some breaking news on this Tuesday morning did shuffle the priorities here on Locked on Patriots just a little bit. Please rest assured, your great questions will be addressed as part of Takeaway Thursday this week. So my apologies for the reshuffling here, but rest assured, folks, it will be a great episode. I really appreciate all of you who took the time to send in your great questions.

I'm looking forward to answering each and every one of them. And the five that I've selected for Thursday's show will be answers you do not want to miss. So thank you all for your continued support and for staying locked in to Locked On Patriots. But without further ado, I'll dive right into that breaking news of the day. And folks, the New England Patriots currently have not one, but two coaching vacancies on their staff. And no folks, Josh McDaniels is not responsible for either of them, at least not yet. In a roller coaster of a news cycle on Tuesday morning, now former special teams coordinator and wide receivers coach Joe Judge will be leaving Foxborough and heading to East Rutherford.

As first reported by ESPN's Adam Schefter, Judge will become the head coach of the New York Giants. This comes just one day after he interviewed for the job on Monday. And this was a surprise, folks, considering how the day started. Early on Tuesday, it was reported by Pete Tamal of Yahoo Sports that the Carolina Panthers were finalizing a deal with Baylor University's head coach Matt Rule to take over their head coaching gig. Now, this is significant for a couple of reasons. First, it was widely expected that the Giants were all in on Rule. He was their number one choice, so to speak. People close to Rule had consistently said that because of his ties to the New York, New Jersey area, taking the Giants job would have been a dream come true for

him. So it was a little more than a bit surprising that he chose Carolina over New York. So I know, folks, you're probably sitting here wondering, what does this have to do with the Patriots? Well, the Carolina Panthers job was considered the most attractive of the three jobs for which Josh McDaniels was scheduled to interview for this week. Carolina was expected, then the Giants, and then the Cleveland Browns. So, with Rule taking the Carolina Panthers job, Josh's choices were down to two, correct? Not so fast. Shortly after 11 a.m., Adam Schefter reported that the Giants were hiring Judge to replace Pat Shermer, who I'm sure you recall was let go following the end of the 2019 regular season. But if you thought Rule choosing the Panthers was surprising,

the hiring of Judge in New York was absolutely shocking to most people. Just check out your social media feed. Starting at around 11 a.m., you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Again, Matt Rule was expected to be the guy in New York. However, Adam Schefter prefaced his report by saying that Judge had impressed the Giants so much that they apparently had an informal agreement that Judge would take the job on Monday night. So Judge leaves Foxborough for the Meadowlands.

But again, what does this mean for the Patriots? And I'm sure that some of you have heard the name Joe Judge, but you're not really sure who he is. Well, fear not, folks. Today I will get into that. And as an added bonus, my colleague Patricia Trena of Sports Illustrated and Locked On Giants is stopping by here on Locked On Patriots to discuss what type of head coach Joe Judge will make in New York. So sit tight, folks. It may be the offseason, but as I always say, there is never a dull moment in Foxborough. But for all of the members of Pats Nation, the number one question is,

should I be concerned that the Pats are losing Joe Judge? Again, you probably know the name. You might not know the man. And if you don't, you're probably in greater company than most would have you believe. Well, maybe the best way for me to begin is to use the words of his former boss. That's right. Patriots head coach Bill Belichick. He described Judge as, quote unquote, an excellent coach. someone that has done a great job of organizing that, meaning

special teams, as well as taking on some other things with the offense. I'll get to that in a moment, but Judge's hallmark is his special teams prowess. Anybody that watched the Patriots play this year and for a number of years knows that the Patriots take so much pride in their special teams acumen. Judge is a big reason why. He has that team well coached, well disciplined, and they always seem to be in the right place at the right time. That's not by happenstance, folks.

That's by design. And it starts with the coach. Now, it's guaranteed that having great players like Matthew Slater certainly helps the cause. But without direction at the top, that team would not be as disciplined as it is, and by all accounts, Joe Judge is a very disciplined coach. Under his leadership, the Patriots' special teams has been among the tops in the league, finishing ranked number three in special teams points per game. Rock-solid special teams coaches like that, they have the traits necessary to become successful head coaches, and that's likely a big reason why the Giants were interested in him from the start. This season, the Patriots had so much faith in Judge's ability that they added to his

responsibilities and made him the coach of the wide receiving unit. That promotion took place last year in the offseason when Chad O'Shea departed to become the new offensive coordinator in Miami. And of course, as we all know, a couple of weeks ago, Chad O'Shea was relieved of his duties as Miami offensive coordinator. Hmm. I'll tell you what, folks. We'll come back to that one in a minute.

For the time being, we'll keep the focus on Judge. And right away, he made an impact on this wide receiving unit. And he won the confidence of their top weapon. And that is Julian Edelman. Whenever he was asked about him this year, Edelman went out of his way to praise Judge for being, quote, a very passionate guy. He went on to say that he was very good at his craft, works very hard, and Edelman was quoted numerous times by saying he was excited to have Judge as a coach.

So the combination of the Patriots' track record of success on both special teams, combined with the respect that both Belichick and Edelman publicly gave to him, pretty much tells you all you need to know about Joe Judge. Now, his detractors might point to the production of the wide receiving unit this year. That might be a fair criticism in some cases. Keep in mind that he's had to deal with a lot of upheaval in that department. There were a lot of people that would be quite content to remove his name from Patriots folklore, but Antonio Brown was a brief member of this team, don't forget.

Going into the season not having a prolific talent like Brown, then all of a sudden very briefly having him, and then having him taken away again, that can definitely cause a disruption in your game planning. Another name that many have forgotten this year is Josh Gordon. He never panned out the way the Patriots had hoped in 2019. Nakiel Harry spent a good portion of this season on injured reserve, and never quite got the chance to develop in-game and develop a pretty good synergy with Tom Brady. Of course, we all know the injury problems of Julian Edelman this year. The fact that he was out on the field in the second half of the season, to me, is still a modern-day miracle.

Now, Mohamed Sanu and Philip Dorsett are largely considered to have underachieved this year. I don't necessarily disagree with that assessment, but keep in mind, both Sanu and Dorsett had their injury problems as well. Sanu was hampered by a high ankle sprain for most of his time in New England, and Dorsett had injury problems with both a hamstring and a concussion. Even the undrafted rookie wide receiver and punt returner Gunnar Oszowski was placed on season-ending injured reserve. That left him with one true healthy option all year,

and that was undrafted rookie Jacoby Myers. To put the lack of productivity on the wide receiver's core squarely on judges' shoulders, probably not a fair assessment. It's my guess that the Giants recognized this, and that's why they figured they had found their man. Another factor that can't be ignored here is the Giants did have competition for Judge's services, and that competition came in the form of his alma mater, Mississippi State. Judge played for Mississippi State starting in 2000, and when his playing days were over,

he immediately joined the staff as a grad assistant. A few years down the road, he accepted the linebacker's job at Birmingham Southern. He served there for one year before accepting a position as a special teams assistant with Alabama and coach Nick Saban, who we all know is a great friend of Patriots head coach Bill Belichick. Judge served in that capacity for a few seasons, and lo and behold, he impressed Saban with his work ethic so much that he was offered a position on Belichick's staff in New England. Initially, Judge served as a special teams assistant for three seasons, and then he ascended to the coordinator role after the 2014 season.

And again, as I stated earlier, in the 2019 season, he also added the title of wide receivers coach to his resume. But is that resume enough to warrant being named head coach of one of the most storied franchises in the NFL? But more importantly, for all of us in Pat's nation, did the Patriots miss out on retaining one of the rising stars in the coaching ranks in the NFL for years to come? Well, in just a moment, Sports Illustrated Giants Mavens and host of Locked On Giants, Patricia Trena, will join me to discuss Joe Judge, his impact on New York, and what that will mean going forward for the Patriots. And then to close it out here today on Locked On Patriots,

I'll let you know what Judge's hiring in New York could mean for the future of Josh McDaniels in Foxborough. For the past two days, my colleague Patricia Trena and I have been collaborating here on the Locked On Podcast Network between Locked On Patriots and Locked On Giants to bring you the latest on Joe Judge. In just 24 hours time, our conversations went from Judge being a long shot to having the head coaching job. Today, I once again sat down with Patricia to talk about the type of head coach Joe Judge may make in New York.

And in just a moment, I'll play an excerpt for you from that conversation, in which Patricia asks me the type of staff that Joe Judge may look to assemble in New York, and what type of message should he bring to fans of the New York Giants as he's introduced as the 19th head coach in Giants history on Wednesday. What type of coaching staff he might assemble? You know, obviously, you know, there are some guys who go primarily NFL heavy. There are some guys that do mostly college heavy. There are guys that do a mix. What do you think, you know, based on what you know of Joe and his background and his philosophies, do you think he'll be more dipping into the NFL circles? Do you think he'll be more dipping into the collegiate circles or maybe will it be a mix?

I think it's going to be a blend of both, to be totally honest with you. I think he's going to pull from some. He does have some defensive coaching ability. He did coach for a year in Birmingham as the linebackers coach, so he does have some experience coaching a defense. I think he'll definitely pull from that when it comes to his acumen and his approach to this job. Again, the time that he spent with Nick Saban is invaluable because you learn a lot from some of the best in the game. And regardless of your opinion on Saban, you have to give him the credit that the success that he's had warrants that type of respect. So he learned a tremendous amount there that really served him well in terms of picking up the mantra and getting a job on Bill Belichick staff. Again, you learn from one

of the best in the game. Things are going to rub off on you. So I do look for him to pull probably a combination of maybe a little bit from college in terms of the defense. I do look for him to pull from the college game on offense a little bit as well. We're seeing the evolution of the NFL in terms of mobile quarterbacks being able to make throws, extend plays with their legs, and be able to do things like that. I think he's got a guy in Daniel Jones that can do that. So that'll be something he'll pull from. But ultimately, that hard-nosed detail orientation,

that's going to be from the pro game. And I think melding those together will lead him to some success in New York. In terms of his introductory presser, what's the one thing you think he needs to stress in his opening, his message to not just the media, but to the fans to give them that impression that, OK, I am the right guy for the job. Everything's going to come into, you know, it's going to fall into place under me. It might take some time, but what can he say to kind of, you know, calm the last of the skeptics out there who are still saying, why this guy? Yeah, I mean, I think that's the absolute right question to ask, Patricia. And to be honest with

you, there may not be a definitive 100% answer to that question. Look, Joe's going to take the podium. He's going to get up there and he's going to say, don't judge me. And please don't, I'm sorry for the pun there, folks, but he's going to say, don't judge me. And please don't die. I'm sorry for the pun there, folks, but he's going to say, don't judge me by my resume. He's going to say, judge me by my actions. Give me a chance to prove myself on the field. The giant saw something in me and I'm going to deliver. I think his message needs to be direct. I don't think he should be something he's not. I think that approach that he took in New England of being direct, being very much to the point is something that he needs to bring to his press conference, being very much to the point, is something that he needs to bring to his press conference.

He needs to outline his game plan, let everyone know how he plans to utilize the offense, how he plans to utilize the defense, and what plans he has to make the Giants a contender in short term. Because it's been a little while since there's been contention in the air in Big Blue with regard to the New York Giants. They need to be assured that this is the guy that's going to bring them to the next level. The types of messages that I would be looking for if Joe Judge were hired as my head coach is how do you plan on doing that?

What are your plans for the offense? What are your plans for the defense? How do you see yourself being able to be the man and command respect? I think if he comes off with an aura of commanding respect right away from the people that are covering the press conference that day, it's going to translate and the players are going to see that. I think that's going to be important. How he carries himself in this is going to be paramount. But to me, the best advice I can give him is to be yourself because that's the best way for him to get the uh the respect that he's

really i believe deserves uh and the respect i believe he will get especially in the locker room it's certainly going to be interesting it's always interesting when you have a new head coach in but hopefully this will be the last time the giants have to hire a head coach for many years to come because just hiring a new head coach every two years, just not a good thing for anybody. And Mike, it sounds like they have a guy who is going to put a stop to that trend. And I, for one, am very interested in hearing what he has to say. I'm interested in meeting him.

And I thank you, as always, for the outstanding overview and information. Oh, my pleasure. You know, like I said, anytime a new head coach is hired by a team, especially a team with the pedigree and the history of the New York Giants, it's always going to be a wait and see approach. My advice to Giants fans is to take that wait and see approach. Give him a chance because from what I know about Joe Judge and from what I've had in the experience of covering him, I do think he'll be a good hire here in New York.

It's not an easy environment to succeed in. There are going to be some growing pains, but I think the reward is going to outweigh the whisk in bringing somebody like Judge in. So give him a chance, folks. I think he's going to do a good job for you in East Rutherford. So with that, folks, Joe Judge departs Foxborough and heads for east rutherford new jersey to become the head coach of the new york giants and to become a head coach in this league so early on in your career for any nfl team an honor and a privilege that so few coaches get a chance to

achieve when it's a storied franchise like the new york giants it's a no-brainer to take the job judge's no-nonsense approach will serve him well in New York. His inexperience? May not. But to use one of our favorite cliches here in Patriots Nation, while he was in Foxborough, Joe Judge did his job, and he did it well. I'm sure all of us in Patriots Nation wish him well and much success. Just not when the Giants happen to play the Patriots, which incidentally won't be for quite a while unless the two teams meet in the Super Bowl. But in New England, the bigger story here is how does all of this impact Josh McDaniels? I opened today's show by saying that McDaniels was planning on interviewing this week with three teams. Well, two of those vacancies have already been filled.

Conventional wisdom would tell you that the Carolina Panthers job was probably the most appealing to Josh. Panthers owner David Tepper is young and progressive, and he appeared to be ready to hand the keys to the kingdom over to the next head coach. Basically what that means, folks, is that the head coach would have a lot more personnel say in terms of how the roster is going to shake out. That appeared to be something that appealed to Matt Rule and also to Josh McDaniels, which is probably why he was reported to be very intrigued by this job. That is not something he would have gotten in New York, and again, I think that would have made a bad fit. Right now for the Giants, Dave Gettleman is entrenched as the general manager. He has the final say on roster decisions, and it doesn't look like that was going to

change anytime soon. If Josh is going to take a head coaching position, it's not going to be where he has little to no say over his own personnel. So in short, the rule hiring in Carolina has more of an effect on Josh McDaniels than Judge being hired by the Giants. So with only one option to choose from, does that mean Josh is going to inevitably end up back in New England in 2020? Well, not quite. And before anyone rolls their eyes, the Cleveland Browns job does have a great deal of appeal to Josh McDaniels. First of all, he's from the area. He played college ball at John Carroll University in Cleveland. He still

has family there. And in addition to removing Freddie Kitchens as head coach, they also cleared out general manager John Dorsey. That could be a sign that Cleveland owner Jimmy Haslam is ready to hand over those proverbial keys to the kingdom, especially if it's Josh McDaniels. But Phil Perry of NBC Sports Boston brought up a very interesting point in his column yesterday. He indicated that Paul DePodesta is running the coaching search.

Now, he's been an analytics guru in the NFL for a number of years. There are conflicting reports out of Cleveland as to how much say DiPodesta will have in the roster's direction. So if Josh doesn't necessarily have the control he thinks he's going to have, Cleveland may not be the appealing choice that everyone assumes it will be. For someone who's been as meticulous as Josh has been over the past few years about selecting a head coaching job, I don't see him just jumping at the opportunity to be a head coach unless it's the perfect situation for him. Cleveland definitely presents a lot of positives, but there are some negatives on which I'd keep a sharp eye if I were you.

So there is a chance that Josh ends up back in New England for 2020. However, if he doesn't, the Patriots coaching staff is going to look drastically different. They will need to fill the offensive coordinator's position, the wide receivers coach, and the special teams coordinator. For right this moment, Josh McDaniels is still the offensive coordinator for the New England Patriots, so let's assume that he remains in that position for a second. That leaves the wide receivers coach and the special teams coordinator. On special teams, it looks to be a foregone conclusion that special teams assistant Cameron Ackord will probably ascend to that role. He's well-respected by Bill Belichick, has a good rapport with the players, and seems to be a hand-in-glove fit.

But the Patriots also have an intriguing in-house option for the wide receivers coach. Keep in mind, the Patriots Hall of Famer Troy Brown assisted Joe Judge a great deal this year with the wide receivers. He may make a good fit. He'd be the sentimental choice for sure. But there is another name out there that's very intriguing, assisted Joe Judge a great deal this year with the wide receivers. He may make a good fit. He'd be the sentimental choice for sure. But there is another name out there that's very intriguing. And that's a guy that already had that position two years ago.

Former Dolphins offensive coordinator Chad O'Shea. If Chad is brought back into the fold to coach the wide receivers, it would definitely help a long way toward maintaining some offensive stability in the event Josh McDaniels leaves. He could also be an option to slide into that offensive coordinator position if, in fact, Josh takes the head coaching job in Cleveland. Continuity on offense is going to be very, very important for the Patriots this year, especially if they want to convince Tom Brady to come back to New England. Josh McDaniels hanging around for at least one more year

would definitely be a big step in the right direction. However, if Josh takes the head coaching position in Cleveland, he's already got a pretty good quarterback established in Baker Mayfield. So unless Tom joins Josh in Cleveland, and again folks, this is all hypothetical at this point, he would certainly be playing for a new offensive coordinator. He does have some familiarity with Chad O'Shea, so keep a sharp eye on that relationship and how that all might play out. But of course, the bottom line here is that with the departure of Joe Judge, the Patriots do have some coaching vacancies to fill. Look for them to fill those pretty quickly. As for Judge being the one that got away, I don't quite believe that's going to be the case. Cameron Ashford ascending to that

position on the special teams should give the continuity the Patriots need. Whether it be Chad O'Shea or whether it be Troy Brown coaching the wide receivers next year, I think that the Patriots will be just fine in that regard as well. And of course, folks, the bottom line in all of this is with all the coaching vacancies being filled, with the exception of Cleveland, it pretty much solidifies that Bill Belichick will be back coaching the New England Patriots in 2020. Despite some of the ridiculous rumors that you've read out there, it doesn't appear that that was ever really a possibility that Belichick would leave. But whether his staff

in 2020 contains some familiar faces or a few new ones remains to be seen. Like the old saying goes, folks, only time will tell. In the meantime, I will continue to bring you the latest news, notes, analysis, and the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions when it relates to their coaching staff and their player personnel. I'll also be back tomorrow with an interesting twist on Crossover Wednesday. Ross Jackson of Locked On Saints will join me, and we'll be talking about the similarities between both fan bases, and we might even have a little Tom Brady-Drew Brees debate. So stay tuned for that, and I think you'll enjoy what we have in store for you on Crossover

Wednesday here on Locked On Patriots. As always, please be sure to join me each and every day here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. Subscribe and download via your preferred podcast provider. Once again, I'm Mike DeBate. I thank Patricia Trena for her hospitality, inviting me on the Locked On Giants, and for sharing a portion of that interview with you today. But most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for remaining locked in to Locked On Patriots.

Have a great day, everyone.