Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Truth Bomb: Is Patriots-A.J. Brown Expected Union Overrated? | Mailbag

Starting point is 00:00:01 One thing we can't do is undervalue what an alpha pass catcher can do for this team because of what happened 20 years ago. This is Locked on Patriots. You are Locked on Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked on Podcasts Network, your team every day. What's happening? I am your host, Nick Cattels. On today's mailbag, the future of two Patriots-wide receivers and whether or not they're headed to Philadelphia. this summer. In the second segment, this roster is better than it's been in quite some time on paper, but we should not get too far ahead of ourselves. But first, the value of an alpha, the true value

Starting point is 00:00:51 of a number one pass catcher. Russ Goldman has the first question in this week's mailbag. Why do you feel a need to say the Patriots need a true number one receiver while they won six Super Bowls without one. Appreciate the question, Russ. Let's put aside 2001, 2003, and 2004. Now, some people might say, Nick, it's crazy. You're already erasing three Super Bowls? Yeah, I am. With this conversation, let's put aside 010304. That's more than 20 years ago. Football has evolved. Rules certainly have changed. Wide receiver in the current day NFL is not. now a premier position. This is not the Cory Dylan clock killing years when we go back to 0.304. It's just not that way. This is not dink and dunk your way to a championship like back

Starting point is 00:01:49 in 2001 while your defense clogs up the greatest show on tour. This version of the NFL, an alpha pass catcher, a number one guy helps you win titles. Look at the recent championship. Look at the recent Champions last year. We just saw this play out. And I know he did not have a huge Super Bowl, thanks in part to Christian Gonzalez, but do the Seahawks win the Super Bowl last year without Jackson, Smith, and Jigba? I think that's a no. So JSN last year championship. 2024, Devante Smith, A.J. Brown. 2023 and 2022, Travis Kelsey, a bona fide stud catching the football, though he's a tight end, he was a number one guy back in 2020 and 2020. In 2021, the Los Angeles Rams won.

Starting point is 00:02:42 Thanks in big part to Cooper Cup, one of the best receivers in football. 2020, after Tom Brady left the Patriots, he joined Tampa. One of the main reasons why he joined Tampa, because he had Mike Evans to throw the football to go along with other guys in that offense. But Mike Evans, no doubt, a number one pass catcher in the league. for quite a long time. And I could go on and on and on. I also think that sometimes when Patriots fans have this type of conversation,

Starting point is 00:03:13 I don't think they mean to, but they are really underappreciating Tom Brady in a weird kind of way. Tom Brady is the reason why you were able to win those early Super Bowls and the other Super Bowls and the Super Bowl appearances. Tom Brady's ability helped elevate certain guys. And when you talk about the early days, winning Super Bowls without a legitimate number one pass catcher with Tom Brady is much easier to do than without a Tom Brady. You have a wider margin for error when you have the greatest quarterback of all time, not to mention also having the greatest head coach of all time, who is putting together ridiculous game plans to stymie, you know, Payton Manning and other. really good quarterbacks of that time. So let's look at the Patriots post 2004, because I think the idea that the Patriots won

Starting point is 00:04:14 Super Bowls, especially post 2004 without a number one receiver, I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that premise. Post 2004, the Super Bowl winning teams, those teams had some of the best pass catchers in the entire NFL. inevitably, the question is, do defenses have to game plan for your best pass catcher? Julian Edelman in 2014 and 2016, he finished with 92 and 98 catches respectively. He started 13 games in those two years. So if he started all 16 and was fully healthy, he's absolutely beyond, if not well,

Starting point is 00:04:56 beyond 100 catches. He was a number one receiver. Now, he might not be the best receiver in football. He might not have been listed in the top five of wide receivers in football, but he was a bona fide number one guy. Bonified number one guys make catches like Julian Edelman made against the Atlanta Falcons. How about Wes Welker? Wes Welker was one of the best wide receivers in all of football from 2007 through 2012.

Starting point is 00:05:25 If you forgot what Wes Welker did, he had 112, 111, 123, 122, and 118 catches in five of those years from 07 to 2012. Now, West Welker's not your prototypical boundary X big time playmaker downfield type receiver, but he was absolutely one of the best receivers in football when he was with the Patriots. How about Rob Grunkowski, who just so happens to be the best tight end, in my opinion, of all time? Do you think he's the number one pass catcher? Do you think that Rob Grunkowski is the type of player that defenses had to game plan for? Do you think Rob Grunkowski dictated coverage demanded attention?

Starting point is 00:06:13 Let me ask you this. Would the Patriots have won in 2011 if Gronk wasn't on one foot slash leg versus the Giants in that Super Bowl? Because of that vicious high ankle sprain. Do you think the Patriots win that game? I do. I absolutely do because he was their most dominant weapon. Wes Welker was fantastic, but when Grinkowski was at his best, he was unfreaking stoppable.

Starting point is 00:06:43 That's a number one guy. So this idea that the Patriots have won six Super Bowls without ever having a number one wide receiver, I could not disagree with that more than I do, especially. post 2004. When the league started to throw the football more, throw to wide receivers more, tight ends became more prevalent

Starting point is 00:07:08 catching the football than ever before. This is a different type of league. And so when you go back the last 15, 20 years, the Patriots have had some of the best pass catchers in football. Maybe not

Starting point is 00:07:24 the best guy. A.J. Brown is not the best receiver in the league. but he is a true number one. I just, I guess I don't understand it on a lot of different levels, but I especially don't understand why people, some people seem to be against the idea of adding an alpha pass catcher to the locker room. Why are people against that?

Starting point is 00:07:50 I would even argue that Stefan Diggs, for most of last season, was a number one type guy. How many big catches did Stefan Diggs make on third down, fourth down, the big touchdown catch, tight window catch against the Texans in the playoff game? Why would you not want a number one receiver on your team? I don't get it to prove a point, to walk around and be like, well, the Patriots won this year and they did not need a number one guy at wide receiver or one of the best tight ends in the league.

Starting point is 00:08:25 Do you get extra credit for that? I don't understand what the fascination is from a segment of fans that say, well, hey, look, they won six without one, so you don't really need one. You can certainly win without a number one receiver, but those are the anomalies. Having a number one guy absolutely helps you win football games, absolutely helps you win big games, and absolutely helps you win Super Bowl. Do you not want to support Drake May? Do you not want to give him as good as you can give him in the wide receiver room or tight end room? Do you not want this team to be better? I just, I don't understand it on a fundamental level.

Starting point is 00:09:14 Is the argument that the team is better without having a number one guy? Do you think the offense, do you think the offense and the team overall is better without having somebody like a Rob Grunkowski who dictates the coverage. I mean, again, I just don't get it. I think the premise is wrong number one, and I don't quite understand why people would have some kind of an issue of going out and getting a number one guy.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Edelman, Welker, Grunkowski, all helped you win Super Bowls. So that's why I talk about the Patriots adding a true number one dude because it helps. It helps your quarterback. It helps your team. Again, appreciate the question, Russ.

Starting point is 00:10:11 Stacking up this year's roster against teams of the past decade. That and more next. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Now the number one sports podcast network, your team every day. Today's episode is brought to by Indeed. Filling an open position shouldn't feel like a shot in the dark. When your inbox is overflowing and you're feeling the pressure, you need a system that works. This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

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Starting point is 00:11:13 Again, that's a $75 sponsored job credit. Support the podcast by heading to Indeed.com slash podcast and telling them that we sent you. Terms and conditions apply. You need to hire. This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. The 2026 roster, especially when you include A.J. Brown, is as good as it's been in quite a while. but we need to respect historical context like we did in the last segment when discussing 2026 versus other years. Thank you for making us your first listen and for being an everydayer.

Starting point is 00:11:50 Don't forget to check out the Everydayer Club for ad-free episodes and access to a group chat with other listeners of this show. Tap the link in the show notes to find out more. We're to lockdown patriots.com.com. Also, if you're checking us out on YouTube, which I know a lot of you do, don't forget to click that thumbs up. Don't forget to throw in a comment and don't forget to subscribe to the channel. Next goal is 10,000 subscribers. We appreciate each and every one of you. I remind you again that in June, we will be giving you three episodes a week, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday during the month of June.

Starting point is 00:12:28 We are usually every day, 11 out of the 12 months, but in June, we take a little bit of a step back to gear up for training camp. So be ready, June, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, locked on Patriots for you. And don't be concerned. Don't be worried. If slash when the Patriots trade for A.J. Brown, we are going to be all over that story in the beginning of June. And yes, we will most likely have more than three episodes that week if when the Patriots land A.J. Brown. So again, appreciate every single one of you. Back to the mailbag. Patty A. underscore 23.

Starting point is 00:13:05 Do you think this is the best Pat's roster on paper, including A.J. Brown, since the 2014 or 2015 season? I'll begin here. And I think we always begin with this comment when we're trying to compare current Patriots teams to the Patriots teams of the two dynasties. It is incredibly difficult to compare any team to one that has Tom Brady on it and one that doesn't have Tom Brady on it. I mean, I don't know how we would feel if Brady was on this team, probably as good as we felt every single year, he was healthy and on the Patriots. But it's really difficult to compare any team when you're talking about having the greatest of all time on one of those teams and not having the greatest of all time on the other team. It's also tough for me to say that this roster is better than any roster that won a Super Bowl.

Starting point is 00:14:01 that's the whole on paper versus the actual team and what you got out of that team teams that won Super Bowls to me I'm not comparing to a team that has yet to hit the field and play a competitive football game now I will tell you that this year's roster again we're all taught about on paper especially with AJ Brown is better than any team that has been on the field since 2019 you go back to 2090 Brady's last year. Again, it's difficult to compare one team with Brady and one team without Brady. But that specific team, the last year where Brady was frustrated and left after the first round lost to Tennessee at Gillette against Mike Vrabel and Company when Brady was angry when the paths were like 8 and 0, I would say on paper, aside from the quarterback, you know, every other team has not been as good as this one on paper. and especially post Brady, no doubt. How does this roster stack up with the other teams that, you know,

Starting point is 00:15:08 have Brady on them but did not win Super Bowl since 2015? Look, there's strengths and weaknesses and spots of every team. I'm not going to go through every position and run through a decade of Patriots teams. But I want to look at 2015 because it's a fascinating team. They got to the AFC championship game. They lost that game at Denver. Remember the end of that game, I do. And of course, last year's team got to the AFC championship game, beat Denver to get to the Super Bowl.

Starting point is 00:15:38 When you look at 2015, quarterback Brady over May, running back, I would say Ramandre, Stevenson, Trevionn Henderson over Steven Jackson, James White. Remember the Patriots were scrambling to find a running back and threw Stephen Jackson out there. It was really the corpse of Stephen Jackson at that point. Wide receiver. Julian Edelman back in 2015 played only nine games. So I would say certainly A.J. Brown, Romeo Dobbs, better than Danny Amandola and Brandon LaFelle. Tight end, gronk all day every day. Offensive line is interesting. I would give a slight lean to 2015. You had Sebastian Volmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon, Cam Fleming, La Adrian Waddle at tackle.

Starting point is 00:16:21 Guards, I don't know how many of you remember Josh Klein. Josh Klein played a decent amount in 2015 at guard. Shaq Mason and Tray Jackson were on that team. Center, David Andrews, Brian Stork. So I would give a slight lean to the 2015 O line. Defensively, cornerbacks, I'm giving the edge to Christian Gonzalez and Carlton Davis over Malcolm Butler and Logan Ryan. Linebacker, I'm giving it to 2015. Jamie Collins, Dante High Tower, Gerard Mayo, still on that team, not playing nearly as much, but was still on that team. better than Robert Spillane and Christian Ellis.

Starting point is 00:16:58 The interior defensive line, I'm giving it to 2026. Milton Williams, Christian Barmore over Malcolm Brown and Alan Branch. Edge, I would give the lead to 2015. Chandler Jones and Rob Ninkovich versus Draymont Jones and whatever we get from Harold Landry this year. Safety, I would lean towards 2015. Devin McCordy, Patrick Chung. I would give that a slight lean over Kevin Byard and Craig Woodson.

Starting point is 00:17:27 So all in all, when you look back, I'd say 2015, better than 2016. I mean, 2026. So 2015, better than 2026. Again, we can go through every single year, but that's probably an eight-hour episode. Let's jump to the next question. LFG, Pat's Pod. We get A.J. Brown come June 1st. Complete this sentence.

Starting point is 00:17:50 This team is a top blank team in the NFL. on paper with everyone playing the same schedule. See, that's the context, right? That's the nuance of these types of conversations. If you're going to tell me this team is a top blank team in the NFL, well, they would all have to play the same schedule. And then you could have a really true unbiased vibe of how the team stacked up. But I would say if, you know, you had everyone playing the same schedule,

Starting point is 00:18:18 this would be a top four team in the NFL if healthy. I think they are as dangerous as any team in football. Given the current schedule, they're probably just on the outside of the top six or seven teams in the league, especially when you include the schedule they're playing. But they are as dangerous as anyone with A.J. Brown. You have Drake May, who's a top five quarterback. You have the combination of Brown and Romeo Dobbs,

Starting point is 00:18:44 which is a legitimate number one-two combo in the NFL. the offensive line with the anticipated improvement of Will Campbell and Jared Wilson should be more than good enough and they should be better than last year, especially fingers crossed if Elijah Verrett Tucker stays healthy. Ramandre Stevenson, Trevion Henderson, above average backfield for sure. You know, if you get Ramandre Stevenson the way he played towards the end of the season after that injury, I think it's a well above average combination. defensively, we'll get into that soon, but a high ceiling defensively.

Starting point is 00:19:19 And I think you look at A.J. Brown, you could improve. You could improve by one to two wins with A.J. Brown. But it's really about, you know, when you go get one of those number one pass catchers, it's really about certain matchups and big games and postseason games and having somebody who can make plays in those moments. Republican underscore X1. Where does your analysis put this defense? Where does it have the opportunity to dominate?

Starting point is 00:19:45 The Pats have the talent and the coaching staff to finish as a top 10 defense, for sure. They have the talent and the coaching staff to possibly finish in the top five. This is a very tough quarterback schedule, though, as we talked about in the prior podcast, but you've got one of the best defensive backfields, Christian Gonzalez, Carlton Davis, Marcus Jones, Craig Woodson, Kevin Byard. I mean, that is such a talented defensive backfield with a mixture of younger guys and experienced guys. I think you have, you know,

Starting point is 00:20:17 top two interior defensive linemen. Your top two guys are all pro talents. Milton Williams is an all pro talent. If he played all year, he might have made an all pro team. Christian Barmore has that ceiling. Will they ever get there? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:20:33 But both of your interior defensive linemen can play well against the run and the past. Milton Williams just turned 27 in April. Happy birthday, Milton. Christian Barmore turns 27 in July. So they're walking into their primes. Barmore is looking at a contract year, no more guaranteed money after this season.

Starting point is 00:20:51 So you should get a very motivated Christian Barmore. At Edge, you know, is Harold Landry the Landry from last year in the first month? Or is he the Landry post injury? We'll have to see. Draymont Jones is good, I would say not great. How much of an impact can Gabe Acitz make in year one? How much of a step forward can Elijah Ponder make in his sophomore season? So you still have a little bit of question there at edge.

Starting point is 00:21:17 And linebacker a lot rests on Robert Spillane's health. If he's healthy, you feel like you're in decent shape with Robert Spillane and Christian Ellis. But we do have the depth questions that we have discussed a few times before draft and post draft. Coming up, trick plays with an offensive tackle and more. This is Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. We can stream anything, order food and minutes, do everything. from our phones and somehow buying tickets to live events like concerts still feels way harder than it should be long lines confusing checkout prices jumping at the last second it should not be

Starting point is 00:21:58 that complicated that's why there is game time it gives fancy advantage it makes getting tickets fast and simple looking at tickets for an upcoming game it'll take you minutes to find great options you'll see the full price up front no surprise fees at checkout the seat views are huge You can check your exact view before you buy. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets to every type of event with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use code Lockdown. Again, it's Lockdown for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply.

Starting point is 00:22:32 Again, create an account and redeem code L-O-C-E-D-O-N for $20 off. Download the GameTime app today. K-S-S-Hon-Booty-S-Hon-Booty-J-S-Hon. his future is unlikely to involve New England, but there's another wide receiver that could be dealt and actually makes more sense for the Philadelphia Eagles. We'll get to that, but thanks for checking out the lockdown podcast network. Now the number one sports podcast network.

Starting point is 00:23:02 And don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe as you watch us on YouTube. Next question, Foxborough fever. Does Christian Gonzalez get his big extension this off season? He's only going to go up in price if the Patriots wait. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that's a true statement. And yes, I believe that Christian Gonzalez is going to get his extension this offseason.

Starting point is 00:23:24 Mike Vrable, Elliot Wolf, both have been on the record saying that Gonzalez is a pivotal part of the future. Now, of course, they can say that and still wait, but I don't think they're going to. No, Christian Gonzalez is one of the few young blue chip players that you have, a guy that could easily be first team all pro this year if he stays healthy. you don't have a number of guys on this team that would hit that mark, right? I mean, you got Milton Williams, you've got Drake May, you've got Christian Gonzalez. If you trade for A.J. Brown, maybe A.J. Brown sneaks in on an all pro team if he plays at the tippity top of his potential.

Starting point is 00:24:03 But those are the guys that really stand out first and foremost. Maybe Elijah Verit Tucker, Michael Wen, who got a couple of all pro votes last year. But we talk about blue chip dudes. like you look at that guy and say he could be elite at that position. You don't have many guys like that on this football team. So Christian Gonzalez is one of them. And not only is he one of those type players, he's one of those type players at a premier position.

Starting point is 00:24:33 And the Patriots, you know, their ability to be aggressive and unpredictable on defense, which I think we're going to see even more of this year with Zach Corr as the play caller and the guy who has the title now as the DC, you have to rely on the ability to play man coverage. So that's a big part of the defensive plan, I think, is Christian Gonzalez's ability to be a number one outside corner. Also, financially, Drake May's extension is going to be next offseason. And I don't think you're going to sign both Gonzalez and May to massive extensions in the same offseason. I just, I don't see them doing that. I don't see them costing themselves

Starting point is 00:25:12 even more millions waiting, and I think this gets done in July. M. Garrish, would you be surprised to see one of the wide receivers currently on the roster, included in the A.J. Brown trade, if so, which won? I would be surprised. I would be surprised if one of K. Shan Booty or Pop Douglas is dealt to Philly. When you look at the Eagles, they're, you know, five-deep-at receiver without A.J. Brown. Devanti Smith, Mackay Lemon, Dontavian Wicks, Hollywood Brown, Elijah Moore. Not only that, but the Eagles also have other depth options at the position. Darius Cooper, Johnny Wilson, Kez Watkins, Britain Covey.

Starting point is 00:25:59 So, I mean, the wide receiver room in Philadelphia, they run like 7, 8, 9 deep. And I don't think they're stressing to add another receiver even after A.J. Brown is gone. Now, as far as the Kashan booty rumors, again, I just don't see how he fits in Philly with Don Tavian Wix. Wix replicates a lot of what Kishon Booty does. And let's not forget that not only did Philly trade for Don Tavian Wix, they also gave him an extension for next year. He's going to make like $12.5 million next year, which means they're going to throw the football to Don Tavian Wix this year. Now, not as much as they might have pre-McKhi Lemon trade when they traded up and drafted

Starting point is 00:26:49 lemon. But I do think Wix is going to get opportunities. And I just look at it and say, Kishan Booty's not going to have much opportunity if he goes to Philly. He knows that. The Eagles know that. Kisham Booty's representation knows that. So is it impossible?

Starting point is 00:27:05 No. Maybe the Eagles trade for him and spin him off elsewhere. But it just doesn't seem like a fit. Pop Douglas actually would make more sense because he's the quicker kind of jitterbug guy off the line of scrimmage, inside guy who can get down field. You could look at Pop Douglas if you're Philadelphia

Starting point is 00:27:23 and say he will compete with Hollywood Brown and Elijah Moore. But my guess, my guess on what it's going to take for AJ Brown to be a patriot, I think what's going to end up happening is the Patriots will trade the first round pick in 2028 to go along with like a lay later round pick at 28, like a fifth round pick. And I think they'll get A.J. Brown back to go along with like a fourth round pick in 28. So I could see the Patriots giving up a 2028 first and fifth for Brown in a

Starting point is 00:27:54 2028 fourth. I think that's the type of trade we're looking at. And then the Patriots will talk to other teams. And, you know, if somebody gets injured, it makes that type of trade for Kisham Booty much easier. But I just, I have a hard time seeing the fifth. in Philly now. The old man mob. Is there any chance Demetrius crown over gets snaps at tight end or trick plays as the sixth offensive lineman? I love Patriots fans.

Starting point is 00:28:21 It's May, baby. We're thinking trick plays with your offensive tackle. Let's start with the tight end idea. It's possible Demetrius crown over gets snaps as a tight end slash sixth offensive lineman, right? When they go big, it's possible. I don't think it's likely. It's possible.

Starting point is 00:28:40 How would that happen? Well, Demetrius Crownover would have to learn the offense. He would have to surpass Caleb Lomu and the other depth tackles on this roster. He would have to become trusted by Josh McDaniels and the offensive staff to throw them out there. Now, as far as trick plays, anything is possible with Josh McDaniels. Josh McDaniels loves himself some trick plays. They were mostly missing in 2025. And I think that's because McDaniels was just trying to cover the base.

Starting point is 00:29:10 and build that base with Drake May in this offense. But I would find it very unlikely because Caleb Lomu is likely to get every single shot to be the sixth offensive lineman. And I think if you're going to throw a guy out there for a trick play, he needs to have some snaps. Like he needs to be in some type of rhythm. Very difficult to just throw him out there and expect him to do something like that. if you're seldom used, it's, you know, the trick play is less trick. Because as soon as you see Demetrius Crownover,

Starting point is 00:29:46 your poop detectors pop up. And let's not forget, Demetrius Crownover is a project, raw, offensive tackle. I'm much more focused on building out the fundamentals with him instead of wondering if he's going to be able to get any snaps at tight end or run trick plays, thanks to Josh McDaniels. I think you look at Demetrius, And you hope that he is your swing tackle by 2027 baby steps with him.

Starting point is 00:30:13 That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. Thank you for making us your first listen and for being an everydayer. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C. Radio. And don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. Hit that thumbs up and subscribe. And if you never miss an episode, the Everydayer Club is built for you. Get Lockdown Patriots, add free, plus members-only discord access and more. head to lockdown patriots.supercast.com or check the link and the show notes to learn even more.

Starting point is 00:30:40 Have a fantastic day. We'll see you next time.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Truth Bomb: Is Patriots-A.J. Brown Expected Union Overrated? | Mailbag

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