Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Ultimate AFC East Crossover: Patriots are Still The One - 2/10/2020

Episode Date: February 10, 2020

It’s Ultimate Divisional Crossover Week across the Locked On Podcast Network. Joining host Mike D’Abate is Joe Marino of Locked On Bills and John Butchko of Locked On Jets to take a deep dive into the AFC East. First up...The 2019 AFC East Division Champions, the New England Patriots. The trio discuss the Pats season, roster questions, and the future of Tom Brady.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello to all of you, Foxborough faithful, Bills Mafia, Finns fans, and gang green nation. Today kicks off an exciting week here at the Lottafell Landscape across the Lockdown Podcast Network. It is the start of the ultimate divisional crossover. And each and every day this week, folks, we will be taking a deep dive into each division in the NFL. And as you may have guessed, this week's shows here are all about the East, the AFC East. And even though the New England Patriots have captured 11 straight divisional titles, the competition in the AFC East is as tough as ever. And we will be discussing anything and everything related to this division all week long.

And for those of you faithful listeners of Locked On Patriots, well, you're used to hearing my voice. I am Mike DeBate, the host of Locked On Patriots, and joining me this week on the mic are my AFC East colleagues. First and foremost, the host of Locked On Bills, my good friend, Mr. Joe Marino. Joe, thank you for joining us on the microphone today. Hey, Mike, looking forward to this series

and sharing some of my thoughts on the Patriots. I think people will be surprised by some of my takes on the team up there in Foxborough. Well, New England Patriots fans are known for having thin skins. I believe that skin is actually a lot thicker, so let them have it. I think they can take it, and we'll definitely be interested in hearing your candid thoughts. We always are. And, of course, I don't want to forget my other good friend on the other side of the microphone, the host of Locked On Jets, Mr. John Buchko.

John, welcome back to the show, my friend. It's great to be here, Mike. Glad to be with you. Oh, excellent. And it's something that I think we've been looking forward to for a while. The AFC was hotly contested this year. The East Division was hotly contested. I know there are a lot of national pundits out there that like to call this. The AFC was hotly contested this year. The East Division was hotly contested. I know there are a lot of national pundits out there that like to call this division

the AFC least, but John, Joe, and myself, we're going to tell you this week why that is a terrible moniker, and there's a lot of great football to come out of this division. Of course, I will address the white elephant in the room, ladies and gentlemen, and that is, conspicuous by their absence today, is the distinguished representative from South Beach, the Miami Dolphins, Travis Wingfield, who has hosted Locked On Dolphins and done an amazing job of doing so. He's moved on to a new endeavor,

and Travis is both a valued friend and colleague to all of us. We wish him nothing but the best. But for those of you Miami fans fear not and fins up we will be discussing the Dolphins this week we will be joined by a special guest on Thursday to help us discuss our fourth horseman here in the AFC East but gentlemen the champs are up first and today we will be breaking down all things New England Patriots and a brief overview of the season before we get into our back and forth and And for those of you listening from New England, they're beloved. But for everyone else, they're vilified.

But those Patriots finished atop the AFC East for a record 11th straight time this year. Finished the season with a 12-4 record. But that fourth loss was a tough one. It came at the hands of the Miami Dolphins at home. And the Patriots held their fate in their own hands. They were just unable to capitalize. They lost out on the second seed in the playoffs as a result of that loss and a first-round bye, so that one particularly hurt folks.

But despite that loss, the Patriots still made the playoffs as a wildcard team this time. But again, like the regular season, the postseason ended not as fans expected. 20-13 loss to the Tennessee Titans, Tom Brady throwing a pick six to his former teammate, now Titans cornerback Logan Ryan, and a playoff loss in Foxborough, which is a very rare occurrence here in New England. But the season didn't start with all of that. It started with a lot of promise. The Patriots opened up the season with eight straight victories. That was fueled by a defense that was playing at an elite level. At one point, they were even calling themselves the Boogeymen. During that

span, they posted two shutouts, and they even had a certain quarterback in this division seeing ghosts. And I'm sure John remembers that, and if he doesn't, I'm going to remind him about that quite often this week. But I digress, folks, because there were issues lurking below the surface all season long with this team. The offense really struggled all season long to find its identity. To be honest, they never really found an adequate way to replace Rob Gronkowski. Matt Lacoste, Benjamin Watts, and Ryan Izzo were definitely not the answer. They had a lot of injuries to contend with as well. Center and offensive line captain David Andrews was lost in the preseason

to life-threatening blood clots in his lungs. That really put things in perspective and made you realize what was important. And we all wish David the best in recovery. However, it did create a big void on the field. Not to mention the fact that their Pro Bowl fullback James Devlin, he was lost to the season due to injury. Two games later, they lost Devlin's backup, Jakob Johnson, to IR as well. And of course, one of their most significant injuries was to left tackle Isaiah Wynn.

He was on IR for a significant part of the season with turf toe. That absence added to the struggles of the offensive line and the running game. So the Patriots never really got a synergy when it came to their offensive output. Can't talk about the Patriots' 2019 season without mentioning their wide receivers. And beyond Julian Edelman, who fought through a ton of injuries in his own right, the Patriots 2019 season without mentioning their wide receivers, and beyond Julian Edelman, who fought through a ton of injuries in his own right, the Patriots didn't get a lot of consistency at that position. Nakiel Harry, the first-round draft pick out of Arizona State, came in with a lot of promise, but he was on IR for the better part of the season with an ankle injury, missed a lot

of training camp, and a lot of the first half of the year, and never really developed the synergy with Tom Brady that he needed to. Some people forget that Josh Gordon was expected to be a big part of this offense as well. He struggled finding his identity in this offense. He was ultimately cut. Gordon ended up signing with the Seahawks. He was eventually suspended. His future on a football field, folks, looks to be suspect at best. And last but certainly not least, there was Antonio Brown, who really did little more than disrupt the team for the 10 days that he was here. Did play one game in Miami, but that never proved to be the solution that the Patriots

were seeking at wide receiver either. And we all know how that turned out. But despite the ending to the season being different than what Patriots fans are used to, the AFC East title was still a bright spot. The Patriots did take the title this year, but it did not come easy, and it figures to be a lot tougher in 2020. And Joe, we'll start with you and the Bills. And your Buffalo Bills came very close to pushing the Pats to the brink of surrendering that division crown this year. This is a hungry Buffalo Bills

team. They know they can compete with the Pats. As you look at the division, what do you believe to be the pulse of Bills Nation when it comes to either catching or maybe even suppressing the Patriots this year in 2020? Well, I think for the first time in 20 years, the Bills mafia thinks there's probably a chance that it could happen. When you kind of look back at the 2019 season, you know, you kind of had some real opportunities for the Bills if some different things went their way to really have a chance to dethrone the Patriots in 2019. But, Mike, I mean, you laid it out there. The team still went 12 and four. This is an offense that was decimated with injuries that lost four of its top seven leading receivers from 2018.

Didn't replace them with much to be excited about you know and i thought there was just maybe too much of an expectation for tom brady to be able to elevate the entire offense it was the worst supporting cast he may have ever had in new england and on top of that you have key players like you mentioned isaiah winn and david andrews and james devlin that were banged up and there's just a lot of uncertainty. There was no continuity on offense. But with that said, they were still 12 and four. They had the number one defense in football. And I think it was a really impressive coaching job by Belichick with all of the coaches that left with Flores to Miami for them to still be able to, you know, kind of still be the best team in the East.

And, you know, as much as I think everyone's ready to dethrone new England, you know, I feel like maybe I'm just going to be the last guy to do it. Um, because I do feel like this is not that hard of a fix. You've already got a super bowl caliber defense and you've got an offense that, I mean, you're going to get players back that are going to be healthy and hopefully Dave Andrews and Isaiah Wynn, obviously, but you have an off season with a very singular focus. And I know that there's a couple of free agents, you know, McCourty Collins, Roberts, Van Ooy, Shelton, those guys on defense. But if you can find answers on that offensive line, get some wide receivers that can separate, convince Tom Brady to come back, whatever that story is, then I don't think this is that it's time to push the panic button. Tom Brady to come back, whatever that story is, then I don't think

this is that it's time to push the panic button. Tom Brady was, uh, was put in a tough spot even for Tom Brady last year. And nobody's going to argue that he's not on the, you know, the waning years of his career and that there's been some regression, but I think that was just a lot on his plate to overcome. And, um, I think he still played very well, you know, in spite of some of those challenges that existed this season. I think that you make a lot of interesting points. And first of all, I think you've endeared yourself to some of my listeners. I appreciate that by saying that you're not ready to throw in the towel

on the Patriots' opportunity to compete and win a division title in 2020. A lot of people seem to be very quick to throw dirt on the Patriots dynasty. And I think that's a little premature as well. But you made a couple that I wanted to expound upon before we bring our good friend John in here to talk about gangrene and their options. And that was once about the supporting cast that Tom Brady had to work with this year. And overall, I think that,

and this is one thing that I'm glad that we do, especially with regard to these crossovers and being able to at least shed a little bit of light to maybe some of our listeners that don't hear a lot about what the Patriots had. I don't know if it was the cast that the Patriots had this year in terms of logistical talent i think it was a lot of difficulty in terms of getting that talent to play to where it needed to

be a lot of talent he was a guy that they were very high on drafting him first rounds first time bill belichick used a first round pick on a wide receiver that prolific coming out of college uh they believed that this kid was going to be a contributor right off the bat he suffered the ankle injury and was just never the same all season and for that reason he couldn't develop the type of synergy he needed to with brady in training camp i think that will change this year assuming tom comes back and we are going to get into that uh but uh the other part of that that uh that you had mentioned as well is a lot of the quick-fix type mentality when it comes to the Patriots. This is not a team that rebuilds.

They reload. And even if the unthinkable should happen here in New England, that unthinkable scenario that we will discuss, folks, in a little bit, even if that should happen, Bill Belichick is still the type of guy that keeps doing what's best for the football team. He wants to compete every year. He's not content to sit back and say, well, okay, what's best for the football team is for us to just, you know, muddle through and not do anything. Even if he were to so-called blow it up or tank, there's still always that eye on the future for a guy like Bill Belichick. So those are two good points that I'm glad that you make. And I just wanted to expound upon that a little bit in terms of the Patriots perspective, coming back with a

little bit more. So thank you, Joe. But John, we haven't forgotten about you, my friend. The Jets had a little bit of a Jekyll and Hyde type season, but in my opinion, I think they played some of their best football down the stretch to sleep on this team in 2020, I think is a vast mistake. I know a lot of people look at the Pats and the Bills as going head-on-head, neck-and-neck this year, but I think the Jets can compete for a playoff spot, and they might even be sneaky in terms of getting into contention for the division title. When you look at the Jets this year and what their prospect is about catching the Patriots. Why should everyone

in Patriots Nation have two sharp eyes be kept on the Jets as we approach 2020? Well, I think you're right. It's pretty clear the Jets played better ball in the second half of the season. They started one and seven. They had a six and two second half of the year. And, you know, part of it was that they got Sam Darnold back. Darnold missed three games early on in the season. And it's tough to say. You know, I think the Jets fans are always optimistic, but they're cautiously so because this New England team

has been so dominant in this division. And as Joe mentioned, I mean, it's not like this is a new england team that's that far away this is still it's amazing that a division title and a loss in the wild card round by the standards of the patriots is kind of a disappointing season you know for jets fans that's the type of thing we haven't had in close to a decade uh so i think there's a lot of respect among in the jets fan base for new england i think that there's i'd say there's a lot of respect among in the Jets fan base for New England. I think that there's I'd say that a lot of the Jets fan base is almost intimidated by New England's kind of I'll believe it. I'll believe it when I see it type of thing when the Patriots dynasty finally falls. But, you know, a lot of Jets Jets fans, it's but he did not play well, obviously,

in the Monday night game in October. But Sam Darnold showed some flashes this year. The Jets will have a decent amount of cap space this year. They have a new general manager in Joe Douglas, who is widely regarded as a guy who is a rising star in league circles. So a lot of it is unclear right now. There's a lot we don't know about the Jets right now, how they'll look in 2020. But the one thing I would say is that this is kind of a rare situation because the Patriots have more question marks entering this offseason than they typically do. The Patriots have been kind of the team that's had the most stability in the NFL over the last two decades.

And they do have a number of profound questions, most of which we'll talk about later, is that the quarterback position, whether Tom Brady is going to return and if he does return, how much he still has left in the tank. So I guess for the first time in a while, you can at least maybe see a little light at the end of the tunnel for the Jets. Will that be in 2020? Well, that's an open question. Absolutely. And I think, again, that perspective about Jets fans kind of being a little bit once bitten, twice shy when it comes to the New England Patriots. I can definitely see that. I, they saw that the Buffalo Bills were able to mount a very formidable challenge to them. And they saw a lot in this Jets team that allowed fans to believe that with a full year of a healthy arsenal, because let's face it, the beginning part of the season, the Jets were not healthy. They were not at full strength. And I think it was one of the

things that really derailed them and hurt them from being able to compete a little bit more than they should have. This could be a very, very good three-team race in the AFC East. So I'm glad we've had the opportunity to talk about this a little bit. And that perspective from the Jets' standpoint is something that I think my listeners at Locked On Patriots will definitely be interested in hearing. We did say earlier that the Locked lockdown Finns contingent was not representative here, but obviously I think we probably look around and we say if there is a team that's

probably not ready to make that next lead to contend for a division title, it probably would be the Miami Dolphins. However, they can always be counted on to give the Patriots a game and probably give them a loss in the division. So as long as the Dolphins are around the Patriots, it's always going to be sort of a kryptonite to New England, no matter how formidable they seem to be year after year. Brian Flores has done a tremendous job with that team. That team is going to be a tough out for any of the AFC East opponents this year. But they seem to have the Patriots number for some reason. That just seems to be a team that the Pats struggle with.

So I always pencil in a loss to them every year to the Miami Dolphins. Now, granted, it's usually the game that they play in Miami. You don't expect them to come up here in Foxborough like they did late in the season, take it to the Patriots and unseat them, especially with everything that was on the line in that game. It surprised me a little bit, but we will get the Dolphins perspective a little bit later on in the week.

But I just wanted to touch upon that in terms of prospectus and what these teams are expecting. You probably look at the Dolphins and say, well, they'd be the least threat to the division, but they are a threat to the Patriots because that one divisional loss can definitely hurt you. And we saw it hurt them this year. Coming up, folks, the biggest question facing the Patriots is pretty obvious. And that is on offense. And the Patriots have a big hole to fill.

Who will they hire as their wide receivers coach? No, just kidding, folks. We know that's not the biggest question. We know what it is. We know what the most important question is and it's tom brady we will prognosticate on the future of the pats in just a moment however before i proceed with that we at lockdown are proud here to say that this episode is sponsored by blue chew guys now you can increase your performance and get that extra confidence listen up bluechew.com that's blue like the color blue blue chew brings you the first

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And we've discussed a little bit about the prospectus for 2020 from each of the fan bases perspective. But now we're going to get into the logistics of it. And that is that the Patriots have a ton of questions this offseason. Maybe more questions than they've ever had before in the Brady-Belichick era. First of all, they've never really had to wonder whether or not Tom Brady was going to be back under center. They have to wonder that this year. And that's a question that we'll get to in a moment. But before I did that, I wanted to pick the brains of my esteemed colleagues here on some of the other free agents that the Patriots have, that they will have to fill those voids. A lot of

members of the defense, which we talked about earlier as being one of the Patriots strengths, Devin McCourty as safety, Kyle Van Noy at linebacker, Jamie Collins at linebacker, Danny Shelton at nose tackle, Alandon Roberts at linebacker as well, who was also the Patriots part-time fullback this year as well. They're all free agents. On the offensive side of the ball, one of the big keys that they will have to look at is Joe Tooney, who is their pro bowl guard. He's a guy that is going to command a big contract on the open market. And a lot of people feel that he's going to get priced out of the Patriots range. And he may be looking to move on this season. As you gentlemen look at the Patriots prospectus for 2020, you look at the free agents and

Joe and John, you guys both hit on this earlier in today's show. But as you look at the potential holes, do you think the Patriots, if you take Brady out of the equation, where are the Patriots holes, the potential losses, and where might they suffer the most as a result of the free agency binge in 2020? Joe, we'll start with you. Well, you know, one thing I will say, just kind of looking over the landscape of of whose contract is set to be up here uh in a few weeks as free agency opens you know i think there's some questions on this offensive line you already mentioned joe tooney who's one of the best guards in football but when i look at some of the players that new england has brought in over the last

couple of drafts drafts and actually via trade and yni Kajus, the left tackle from West Virginia, Jalte Froholt, interior offensive lineman from Arkansas, and then Jermaine Illumineur, a guy that they traded from the Baltimore Ravens. I think that there's three exciting young offensive linemen there that had at least a year of experience last year being in the organization. And maybe they'll have a chance to carve out a role next year. And I really like all three of those players as a draft guy those are all three players that i evaluated as as future starters and so you know you kind of look at maybe uh some injury

concerns at some spots whether that's david andrews not being able to come back or if joe tooney's not being able to be retained retained i think there's some answers in house in addition to some free agents that they can look at i do think that they've think there's some answers in-house in addition to some free agents that they can look at. I do think that they've got to find some answers at wide receiver, guys that can separate. You know, a lot of the players that they relied upon last year is a revolving door. I mean, at one point, we thought the Patriots receivers were going to be Demarius Thomas, Josh Gordon, and Julian Edelman.

And, well, that didn't work out. And Julian Edelman was banged up all year. There was times where I just was watching, like, practice video of him having no idea how he was going to play on Sunday. And then he wound up going out and, you know, doing the best he could. Obviously, the second Buffalo game really pops as the game where Edelman was a real problem for the Bills. So, you know, Jacoby Myers, another year in the system.

Mohamed Sanu, you know, a midseason acquisition. He'll be better in year two with Tom Brady with an offseason to prepare, you know, should Tom be back. But, you know, I feel like they can kind of invest their attention in finding, you know, some playmakers to surround Tom. But, you know, defensively is where it gets interesting because they've always done such a good job of finding the right roles for players and really maximizing talent. But, you know, the list is pretty long. Devin McCourty, Kyle Vannoy, Landon Roberts, Jamie Collins, Danny Shelton, you know, some of those need to be brought back. And if not, then, you know, you're looking at guys like a Jawan Bentley potentially taking a bigger role. Bottom of the roster guy like Tayshaun Bauer, who's a player that I liked coming out of college, but he hasn't proven much in the league. So, you know, there's some in-house

options here, but, you know, Belichick is going to have to find some of those matchup specific players that he likes on defense for this defense to repeat. And I know that last year they were a big play defense, a lot of turnovers, a lot of really good situational stuff. You know, that stuff's hard to replicate year over year. and when you start taking away the ingredients that made that successful, you have to start to be concerned a little bit. So I think there's some in-house options to consider, but the Patriots are going to have to retool a little bit on defense, but I think the big thing is if Tom Brady's going to be back,

making sure that he has a supporting cast that he can actually work with and keep this Patriots offense on schedule in a better way than it was in 2019 yeah and I I have my own thoughts on exactly what you just said but I'm not going to steal John's thunder John from a Jets perspective or even just from an objective perspective from covering the AFC East do you agree that the Patriots are better equipped to take the hit on offense and maybe take a little bit of a step back on defense should some of these guys leave? Or do you believe that offense is really where they're going to struggle in free agency if they lose some of these key guys that they have

on the roster right now? Well, I think that they risk losing more on the defensive side of the ball, but the defense is ahead of the offense. So I think that's something you have to consider there is that they can probably afford to lose more on the defensive side of the ball than they can on the offensive side of the ball. Now, I will tell you that there are a lot of rumors that the Jets are going to make a run at Tooney when he hits the open market.

But if we're not talking about Brady, the guy who I think is going to be the biggest loss for them, it's not a player, that's Dante Skarniecki, who's just a tremendous offensive line coach. I mean, look how many guys he's developed. When he came out of retirement a couple of years ago, I said that offseason, that may have been the biggest addition any team made. So I think there's a question of how the Patriots are going to replace him. Lots of coaches in this league I don't think make a big difference.

I think he's one of the few coaches that makes an enormous difference, the way he runs his unit. And I think that now on the offensive side of the ball, one of the things that struck me near the end of the season was, you know, December is typically when the Patriots rounded the form and they just start annihilating the rest of the league. And I couldn't get over when I was watching some of these games in December. It just seemed like that the Patriots offense had like no big play ability. They I think that they need to add some playmakers. Even when they were producing chunk plays, it was because it was like a halfback pass

or a flea flicker or something along those lines. So I think that they need to add some game-breaking weapons on offense. So I think they're equipped to lose some guys on defense and still be good. I think the offense is probably the bigger question mark as far as I'm concerned. Absolutely. And I think that you guys probably the bigger question mark as far as I'm concerned. Absolutely.

And I think that you guys both made great points. First of all, Joe, getting back to your point about the Patriots and how that will kind of handcuff them a little bit in terms of making the loss a little bit more about the defense rather than the offense. I think there are a lot of names on that defense right now that I may, that may take a step back. John, I thought you made some excellent points. First of all, the loss that the Patriots may suffer on the defensive side of the ball, maybe a little bit more significant in terms of name, but at the same time, the defense was the stronger unit than the offense this year. So if they do suffer a little bit of a loss, then they are a little bit better equipped to handle it

because of the depth that they have. Interesting point on Tooney. I actually heard that the other day as well. I know there are going to be a lot of teams out there that will be looking for that. And that could be a good fit, a good potential fit in New York for Joe Tooney. And I know that they'll definitely be looking

to not only snag a divisional rival, but also a guy that can really provide an anchor on that offensive line. I can tell you Joe is one of the most versatile offensive linemen that I've covered in the last few years, and that's saying a lot up here in New England. They're known for their versatility on the line. But the biggest point that I think you made, John, was just it was the ability to really hone in on the loss of Dante

Skarnecchia, which is a big loss for the Patriots. The ability to develop young talent. And Joe, you mentioned earlier, you mentioned Yelda Frohold and Yadni Kajusti. Those are two guys that essentially redshirted 2019. And they came in with a lot of pedigree. They were very good, very sought after picks for the New England Patriots and were expected to make an impact right away. These are two guys now that have to develop without the tutelage of Dante Skarnecchia. So that's going to be interesting to see how the Patriots are able to plug those holes. But ultimately, you know, we can dance around the white elephant in the room all we want to, gentlemen.

But the biggest question facing the Patriots, and I don't believe I'm being a homer when I say this, but I think it's the biggest question right now in the AFC East as a whole is whether or not Tom Brady will be next year. And a lot of people will tell you that it's a foregone conclusion that he's going to be back. Of course, there are the rumors that the Patriots have come out and they'll be willing to pay in excess of $30 million to keep him here, that Bill Belichick, quote-unquote, prefers him to be in New England. Tom Brady can say all he wants to, that he loves New England. He has the Super Bowl commercial and prognosticates on Hulu ads that he's definitely not going anywhere. I think that was more regarding his career rather than his destination, but we'll digress on that. In your expert professional opinion, Joe, again, we'll start with you

because you guys were the runner-up in the division. When you look at everything as a whole, when it comes to Tom Brady this year, do you expect him to be back? And second of all, if not, where might he be playing in 2020? Tom Brady's 29-3 all-time against the Buffalo Bills, Mike. I think the fans in Western New York would love to see a different player. Oh, they would love it. I mean, I think there's a statistic that still exists,

and hopefully Josh Allen's eating away at this, but I think Tom Brady has the most wins at New Era Field since the year 2000 as a quarterback, and that includes Bill's quarterbacks, right? So, like, you know, it's getting old. It's getting old, and I think that doesn't come as a surprise to anybody to hear that the division rivals are tired of Tom Brady. As a matter of fact, he's 81 and 22 against the entire AFC East in his career, 29 and three against the bill. So, uh, the other teams have done much, much better at handing losses to Tom Brady.

Um, but here's the deal. You know, when I really think about it from a Patriots perspective, when I think about it from a Tom Brady perspective, I think we can all agree Tom Brady's playing football next year. And so he's going to play football because he wants to win. And, you know, he's accomplished everything he can. He's the greatest of all time. First ballot hall of famer, the argument's over the best chance for Tom Brady to win a super bowl. In my opinion, in terms of looking at realistic destinations that he could go to is the new England Patriots, the new England Patriots best chance to win the super bowl next year is by bringing back Tom Brady. It's a formula that's, uh, that we we've seen work at, uh,

historic rates. And if you can keep the defense intact or find answers for the holes they need to plug and get some playmakers tom brady is going to be just fine and i just don't see it being advantageous for tom to go somewhere else to try to win or for the patriots to try to piece together a roster to win without Tom Brady. I think from the Patriots perspective, they should really want Tom Brady back because I'm not really excited about what the other options are. It can't be Jared Stidham. You can't think that you're 12 and four AFC champions going into next year.

And your best way to turn the corner is by handing the reins over to Jared Stidham. And I like Jared Stidham coming out. I just don't get it from a Brady perspective or Patriots perspective to think that not being together is either one of their best chances to win my predictions. Brady's back in new England. Interesting. And I think that you just,

again, I think you're endearing yourself to my listeners. I appreciate that. They're going to love you in new England, Joe, as much as they love me in Buffalo. But any case, I will digress and I will hand the floor over to my

distinguished colleague from New York. John, when you guys look at this, I know Jets fans are definitely sticking pins in the voodoo doll that wear number 12 in a blue jersey, but from an objective perspective, when you take a look at the team, do you share Joe's opinion that Tom Brady will ultimately find his way back to Foxborough?

Or do you think there's a real realistic chance at the Patriots and Tom Brady splitting and going their separate ways? And if so, where do you believe he might go next year if there's a chance that he does leave? Well, I don't think they're sticking pins in the voodoo doll because it hasn't worked for two decades. I think maybe they're trying to change, maybe change the jersey on the voodoo doll because it would be great for Jets fans for Brady to find a new home. But I'm actually going to look at this from a little bit of a different angle than Joe gave us. If Brady is going to leave, there has to be a team that is willing to bring him in. And I know like your first thought would be, course who wouldn't want tom brady well if you're going to bring in a 43 year old quarterback that means that a you think that you have a championship caliber team and b you don't have a quarterback and i mean there just aren't that many options out there who i think fit that description i mean i guess there

might be a couple teams like chicago that comes to mind um i just mind. I think it's fun to speculate about. It's a great topic of conversation when nothing is going on in the offseason. But the way I approach these things is, what's the most logical fit? And as Joe laid out, I think for both sides, the most logical fit is for Tom Brady to return to New England. So I understand why this is getting so much attention. And I understand Brady wants is getting so much attention. And I understand Brady wants to look at his options. But I just I find it tough to believe Brady is going to be anywhere else next year because I don't see where the better option for is for him. I don't see who's

going to want him. I mean, that's crazy. This to say about Tom Brady, maybe that's not phrased correctly. I don't see the Patriots alternative is. So I just think it makes too much sense for him to return for anything else to happen. Absolutely. Gentlemen, I agree with you both. And I think you've both made great points. And I'm so glad that you came at this from two different perspectives. Those are two arguments that I've been making on locked on Patriots now since the Patriots were eliminated by the Titans a little over a month ago. From a Patriots perspective, it's all about having that plan in place. I know it's had competent plans in place to replace each one of those guys. With Ty Law, they had guys like

Asante Samuel and Ellis Hobbs, who, you know, not Hall of Famers, but they are capable players of being able to keep the Patriots afloat. And they still went to Super Bowls and they still competed for titles. Obviously, lawyer Malloy, Rodney Harrison was waiting in the wings. That was actually, if you could make the argument that that was an upgrade for the New England Patriots Adam Vinatieri an absolute icon in this area but Steven Gostowski has kicked pretty well this year and that's one area we haven't even really discussed was the Patriots kicking woes and the problems that they had and the inconsistencies they had in that area so when it comes to the Patriots being willing to move on Bill Belichick

is always going to make sure that that line is set and that he has a good succession plan in place. Joe, John, you guys both hit on the fact that if Belichick does not have that plan in place, he's not going to be willing to move on. And I don't think they have that. Jarrett Stidham, I can tell you, Stid has the ability to be a good competitive starter in this league, but he's not at that level yet. They had to bring in Cody Kessler because he wasn't adept at being able to run the scout team. If he can't do that, you can't hand the keys to the kingdom of a 12 and four division champion and say, Jared, it's your job. You're going to go ahead and you're going to be Tom Brady. It just doesn't work that way. I know a lot of people love to think that

New England is about plug and play and it's all about the system, but you need a competent quarterback to be able to do it. And Tom Brady is at the top of the competent quarterbacks list, definitely a free agents. And I still think he's near the top of that in the league itself. The other argument from Brady's perspective is Tom's all about winning. He's never really been about the money. it's not a situation where I think an extra 5 million against the cap if it means bringing in quote unquote the weapons that Tom didn't have this year is going to be the holding point for him I don't think all of a

sudden he's going to chase the coin after all these years of chasing the ring I think that's what motivates him so ultimately it's about the two teams coming together two sides I should say coming together and putting it back together for 2020 ultimately that's where I believe it's going to be. But before we close here, gentlemen, there is another team in our division. And again, there's not a whole lot of representation,

but I'm going to play devil's advocate. And this is a scenario that was put to me by our fearless leader, the pod Vader himself, Jay Soderbergh. And he said, Miami dolphins have the most cap space in the league next year. They have the most draft capital of any team going into next season. They could very easily offer Tom a pretty good contract, try to coax Rob Gronkowski out of retirement. Perhaps we know he loves South beach. He spent super bowl weekend partying down there. And as a matter of fact, Bill Belichick was one of his guests and maybe even try to get some of his old friends, maybe the band back together, maybe a Danny Amendola. Who knows? Be able to utilize some of that trade, some of the picks that they have to the Patriots. Bill Belichick loves the stockpile draft picks in this scenario that could throw a wrench into the Patriots plans. Me personally, I don't

think there's really a snowball's chance in hell that that happens. The reason why I say that is because, and I say that with every bit of love for Jay and he's probably throwing stuff against the wall or laughing hysterically as he's listening to this, but I don't think Bill Belichick is going to be getting in line to necessarily help the Miami Dolphins and want to see Tom Brady twice a year. It's not a Drew Bledsoe thing, folks. I think, you know, he knew what he had there and he knew what he had in Tom Brady. I don't think Bill Belichick is going to look to get, you know, it handed to him twice a year before we close out today on locked on Patriots quickly, gentlemen, do you think this scenario holds water as Vinnie gambini would say well i think it'd

be interesting um you think maybe josh rosen could be a trade chip there if uh there was something that maybe the patriots thought was interesting i know they had some interest in him uh before he was traded to miami so that that could be a possibility but you know i i just don't know like i think the biggest indicator right now, when you were walking through that was if that was a realistic plan for the dolphins, there's no way they move on from Chad O'Shea to bring in Chang Ailey. Yeah. I think that would be, uh, that's a move right there that detracts me from thinking this is a realistic possibility. And I just don't know that, uh, Tom's gonna, uh, at 43 years old, find himself playing for a Miami Dolphins team that is in a complete rebuild with a terrible offensive line situation and no legitimate running back.

And there's too much that would have to happen this offseason for that to be put pieced together for them to be a reasonable contender. Good point. John, how about you? Do you think this, uh, do you think there's any chance that the Miami dolphins could be a dark horse in the, uh, in the, the, the services for one, Mr. Thomas Edward Patrick Brady jr. In 2020. Uh, do I think there's any chance? Yes. I would say that that chance is very small though. I, I, like Joe said, I just don't see the fit there. I think Miami is kind of looking for a steadier build. I think they're going to draft their quarterback of the future this year.

And I just think that there's too much they have. Even with the resources they have, there's probably too much to get into place to have a Super Bowl team next year. Now, I think they're a team that can improve quite a bit next season, but that seems like an awfully big climb. I just don't really see the fit there. And the other issue is, as we talked about, who's the replacement in New England? I mean, if the Patriots still had Jimmy Garoppolo, I could see that happening more. I could see Belichick allowing Brady to leave in that scenario. But like we've been saying, there's no alternative in place. I think back to the game the Jets played in Foxborough week three. You may remember this, Mike, when the Patriots were up three scores in the fourth quarter and they put Jarrett Stidham in to close the game out

and Stidham throws a pick six and the Jets get back within two scores. The Patriots have to put Brady back in the game. Very, very good. Absolutely. Please, continue that, because that's exactly the point that I was going to make to close this out. That was perfect.

I could not have scripted that better, my friend. Yeah, I just don't see how, if you're Belichick, you allow Brady to go to a division rival and leave yourself with nothing at the quarterback position. Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, like I said, I think, you know, Joe, you definitely made a little bit of a point. You know, my spidey sense kind of went up a little bit when you said, well,

Josh Rosen could be a potential piece there. And then all of a sudden it starts to, well, maybe there's a shot, but I'm still, I'm standing by my statement. I still don't believe that has a snowball's chance. And, you know, I know you guys are giving it a little, I do, of course I have a fan base Decatur too. No, just kidding folks. But in any case, no, I sincerely do believe that. I think that is a microcosm for this Tom Brady chase or this Tom Brady pursuit that a lot of people are going to be putting on.

I think at the end of the day, it really does come down to that play that John described, where you take Brady out of the equation, Jarrett Stidham comes in, throws a pick six, and Brady ends up having to come in. I think at the end of the day, Belichick knows he's the best fit. I think at the end of the day, Brady knows that New England is his best fit. And I know a lot of people in New England are hoping the same. And as for the other fan bases in the AFC East, well, we'll see. We'll see exactly what happens. But whether Tom's back or whether he's not back, I think we've given a lot of people a lot to talk about this week in terms of contending for an AFC East divisional crown. And whether Tom is back in New England or not, I still think that's going to be the toughest battle

that they faced up here in New England in quite some time. There are teams that are ready to do it. And one of the teams that are ready to do it are the team that we're going to chronicle tomorrow here on the AFC East Divisional Crossover. And that's the Buffalo Bills. Gentlemen, it has been an honor to share the microphone with you on behalf of Joe Marino of Locked On Bills, John Buchko of Locked On Jets. I am Mike DeBate of Locked On Patriots. Please be sure to join us each and every day on the Locked On Podcast Network. Subscribe and download via your preferred podcast provider. We thank you for being locked into the Locked On Podcast Network. Have a great day, everyone, and long live the AFC East.