Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #1046: The Phyrexian Arc

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

In this podcast, I talk about the narrative arc of the Phyrexian storyline.

I'm pulling out of the parking lot. We all know what that means. It's time for another drive from work. So I did this podcast this morning. I think I can do it better. We're going to do it again. That's why I'm doing a drive from work. It's my last chance to get it this week, but I think I can do it. Okay, so today I'm going to talk all about the making of the Phyrexian Ark. So I did a whole podcast about the making of the Bolas Ark. People liked it. They said, you should do one about the Phyrexian Ark. I said, I will once we finish it.

So we have finished it. So now I can talk about it. Okay, so in order to talk about the Phyrexian Ark, let me talk a little bit about the Bolas Ark. So the idea is we like to have a story that's told over time that slowly ramps up and then has a big finish, a sort of a capstone event

set to end it all. So the first time we had done that was with the Bolas Ark ending in March of the Machine. And so the notes we had gotten from that was people felt we had stuck, like, most of the

Bolas arc, the Gatewatch were the main characters. And so the concern was, like, we just keep seeing the same characters set after set. We'd like a little more variety. So we decided this time to structure it a little bit differently. The idea essentially was we wanted a little bit of a slower buildup. So we'd start telling stories, and then we'd sort of lead into a story, and then it would ramp up over time was the idea. That was the plan.

Okay, so sort of we started at Throne of Eldraine. War of the Spark ended at Throne of Eldraine. So we started at Throne of Eldraine, and of the Spark ended at Throne of Eldraine. So we started at Throne of Eldraine, and essentially the story goes through March of the Machine. So from our code names, it was A through M, so about half the alphabet. Now, today we'll talk a little bit about, we had some plans that didn't quite happen,

so I'm going to talk a little bit about what we had planned, and then what had actually happened. So the original plan was, I guess a little background here. So the Phyrexians first showed up as a threat in antiquities. They were referenced in the brother's war. As a modern day threat, they showed up during Urza's saga. showed up during Urza's saga, and then they, again, were a threat during the Weatherlight saga. And so we definitely saw the Phraxians as a threat. It all ended in Invasion Block,

where the Phraxian invasion happens. They invade Dominaria, and thanks to the work of Urza and the Weatherlight crew and stuff, they were able, and the citizens of Dominaria, they were able to stop the Dominarian invasion and sort of eradicate the Phraxians as we knew them, what I will now call the Yawgmoth line.

So Yawgmoth strain of Phraxians. But they're awesome villains, and so we, you know, you don't just toss away awesome villains. We wanted to use the Phyrexians again. So when we went to Mirrodin, original Mirrodin, we planted the seeds for the return of the Phyrexians. We were very subtle, but then when Scars of Mirrodin happened, when we went back to Mirrodin, we learned that Mirrodin had slowly been invaded by the Phyrexians, and then during the course of the Phyrexian, sorry, of Scars of Mirrodin had slowly been invaded by the Phyrexians, and then during the course of

the Scars of Mirrodin block, the Phyrexians sort of grew in number, there was a giant war in Mirrodin besieged, and then in the end the Phyrexians won, and they turned the world of Mirrodin into New Phyrexia. So when we left them off in the story, the Phyrexians were trapped on New Phyrexia. the story, the Phyrexians were trapped on New Phyrexia. Previously, the Phyrexians had traveled through worlds through portals, but with the mending, the portals didn't work anymore. So they're sort of Achilles, they had two Achilles heels. One was they couldn't, they couldn't move between planes, so they were trapped on New Phyrexia. And the second is that they weren't able to affect planeswalkers.

Part of the Mafter plan was, oh, we can Frexenize a planeswalker, and the planeswalker could go to another plane and spread Frexian goodness and stuff. But they weren't able to do that. So essentially we had set up the story. The Frexians had sort of had a victory. They turned Mirrodin to New Phyrexia, but we left them kind of trapped on New Phyrexia. That of had a victory. They turned Myrden into New Phyrexia, but we left them kind of trapped on New Phyrexia. That's the last we saw of them.

So what we normally do is we will set up future storylines within current storylines. So part of the Bolas arc was we wanted to set up the Phyrexian arc. So in the Bolas arc, part of Nicole Bolas Arc, part of Nicole Bolas' master plan was to steal all the

sparks of all the planeswalkers, or as many planeswalkers as he could, was to lure them all to Ravnica, trap them on Ravnica with the Immortal Sun, and then use his army of Eternals, of zombie Eternals, to capture their spikes, then he can use his spell of eternals, of zombie eternals, to capture their spikes.

Then he can use his spell to take all their sparks. Anyway, he needed a way to get his army that he had grown on Amonkhet to Ravnica. So on Kaladesh, we went to Kaladesh, which is Chandra's home world, there was an inventor's fair. One of the inventors named Rash, figured out about the existence of the multiverse and invented the planar bridge, which allows someone to cross

between planes. Now, there was a huge restriction on the planar bridge. It did not work on biological material. Well, most people are biological material, so it didn't have a lot of use. But Tezzeret and Boaz realized that it could transport his undead zombie army. They're not really too biological anymore. And so that was the plan. And the Phyrexian bridge was, I don't know how to correct words, but sort of incorporated into Tezzeret. So he became sort of

a living planar bridge. So he, in the end of the Bolus arc, transports all the Eternals, and then he kind of leaves. He leaves in the middle of the War of the Spark. So what was going on? Well, clearly, the Phyrexian bridge turned out to be the thing the Phyrexians were looking for, that the Phyrexians need a way to get off of Phyrexia. Well, the planar bridge allows non-organic matter to travel between planes. Well, it just turns out that Phyrexians are mish between metal and flesh. And while transporting burns off their flesh, the metal part of them can't get through. And provided that they're strong enough, they can then, on the other side, rebuild themselves. And as Phyrexians do in the model of the world they are in.

The Praetors were hardy enough that they were able to do this. Okay, so the original plan for the Phyrexian arc was we were going to get into it right away. So what we decided was we wanted to sort of tease that the Phyrexians had escaped. So the planar bridge was there. I think the diehard Vorthoses kind of knew that that might be a problem with the Phyrexians had escaped. So the Planar Bridge was there. I think the diehard Vorthoses kind of knew that that might be a problem with the Phyrexians because it answered one of the main problems

of the Phyrexians is being able to get off of Phyrexia. Now, it didn't solve everything. Most of the Phyrexians can't use the Planar Bridge. Only the hardiest of them can really use it and survive it. But it did allow them access to other worlds. So what we wanted to do was we wanted to show Phyrexians in other worlds, Praetors, and the idea is when you see a Praetor for the first time, not a New Phyrexia, at least for the Vorthoses out there, they would know, uh-oh, something's wrong.

There's a Praetor, not a New Phyrexia. How did they get off? And probably they would figure out how they got off was desert. Okay, so what happens is we want to show a praetor. So the original plan, so archery,

which became Throne of Eldraine, originally it was two sets, archery and baseball, and it was Throne of Eldraine was going, it was two sets, archery and baseball. And it was Throne of Eldraine was going to be, or Eldraine was going to be two sets. The first set was kind of as you know it. We meet the courts. We meet sort of the more civilized version of Eldraine. And then in the story, we learn that the king has been kidnapped.

Now, at the time, the bad guy was a character we called the Whispering Queen. been kidnapped. Now at the time, the bad guy was a character we called the Whispering Queen. And the idea was that Rowan and Will would have to go rescue their father from the Whispering Queen. And they're going to... We were also trying to set up... A lot of this has changed, but we were trying to set up Will and Rowan, or more Rowan than Will, but we wanted to create a new series of villains. And so the idea we had at the time was, so Will and Rowan can planeswalk, but they're tied to each other.

That they have a shared spark between them. So when one planeswalks, the other planeswalks with them. And so the idea was that they were going to put together this sort of, kind of Knights of the Round Table sort of thing. Like adventurers to come with them to go rescue their father. And then what was going to happen was the Whispering Queen was going to kill Will. Will was going to die. And then in the trauma of Will dying, Will's spark was going to be dispersed among all of the,

all the, I'm not sure what to call them, the band of adventurers. And be tied to Rowan. So what would happen is, when Rowan would planeswalk, she would drag along with her all of her team. And this would allow us to have a team of bad guys that could go from place to place, because Rowan could planeswalk, was the original idea. Anyway, so when you meet the Whispering Queen, the thing we were going to do was show her

picture on her card, which doesn't show up until baseball, which is the plan. And then the audience, or at least the vorthoses of the audience, would say, wait a minute, the Whispering Queen, it's Sjöldred! And so the idea was that was going to be our first, uh-oh, the Phyrexians are out, that when you see that. And we weren't going to make a big deal of it. We weren't going to even call her Sheldren on the card. She's just the Whispering Queen.

But if you saw her picture, you would go, ooh, that's Sheldren. A bunch of things happened. We decided that we didn't want to start the story quite so fast. We wanted to have a little bit of a breather. We wanted to meet Ronan Whale. And anyway, so the story ended up changing. That whole route didn't happen. And so that storyline didn't happen. We would later set them up knowing we were going to Strixhaven. So Will and Rowan

would go to Strixhaven. So anyway, we decided that we needed to set up the story. We did want to show the Frexians. But before we showed the Frexians, the first thing we did was actually in what baseball became, which was Theros Beyond Death. We ended up not staying in Eldraine for two sets. And in Theros of Eldraine, we knew that we needed to free Elspeth. Elspeth had been, on the previous trip to Theros, had been killed, in quotes here. You can't see because this is audio. But I've quoted

killed. So she got sent to the underworld because in Theros there's an underworld. We knew that at some point she was going to escape from the underworld and that she would play a key factor in the Phyrexian arc. The Phyrexians are a big part of her past and she has great hatred for the Phyrexians

and very much wants to stop the Phyrexians. And so in the story, she meets Ashiok, and she has a nightmare about the Phyrexians to remind you that the Phyrexians are a big deal to her. Okay, so in the first year, the first magic, if you will, which is Throne of Eldraine and

Theris Beyond Death and Ikoria, and then I guess it was Korset. Really, mostly it's telling new stories. It's kind of giving everybody a breather. We do free Elsbeth just to set her up so that she can play a role later in the story. Okay, the second year, now we get into Nexus Zendikar Rising. No, that's just doing its own storyline. Then after Zendikar Rising, we get to Kaldheim. So we decided Kaldheim was going to be our stake in the ground.

Instead of Sheldred, we're going to use Vorinclax. So the idea is we're going to tell the story of Kaldheim, and just as a card in, we're not going to make a big deal of it. We did make a Phyrexian version, I guess, but we're not making a big deal of it. It's the only Phyrexian in the set. He doesn't play a role in the story. Just, oh, look, it's Vorinclex.

And that was meant to be the stake in the ground to say to sort of at least the Vorthogs out there that, uh-oh, you know, this is trouble. Just an early warning sign that something is coming. Okay, then we don't do anything. So after call time is Strixhaven. That Rona will show up and there's other storylines. You know, we see what Liliana's up to.

After Strixhaven, we have two sets in Indusrod. So we have Midnight Hunt, we have Crimson Vow, and it's not until Kamigawa that we do the next thing. Oh, one of the reasons Vornkleks, real quickly, that Vornkleks was in Kalltime, was Kalltime has the World Tree. So for those that are unaware, Kalltime essentially is ten different planes.

But because of the World Tree, they have Omen Pass, which allow people to travel between them. And Elish Norn, in trying to figure out how to... She wants to invade the multiverse, right? The plans of the Phraxians is to take over the whole multiverse. In order to do that, they need to get there.

And so she sends Vorinclex to sort of get information on the World Tree. Okay, next up, Kamigawa. So Jinkat, next up, Kamigawa. So Jinkataxius comes to Kamigawa. He is sort of the scientist of the Praetors. And the idea is there's stuff that he can study to try to solve a problem that had been plaguing the Phraxians,

which is the ability to Phraxianize planeswalkers. So what happens there is he figures it out and to sort of give you the next notch in the story to sort of warn the audience that, uh-oh, the Frextians should be worried about is we see the first Frextonized Planeswalker. So that was Tamio. So we know we want to do someone who's native to Kamigawa.

We wanted someone the audience would obviously have feels for when they get Frextonized. And the character that ended up making the most sense was Timeo. So the idea is the second time we sort of show you the Phyrexians, we up the stakes. Now it's not just a second Phyrexian, but they're, you know, the first time Vorinclex shows up, you should be worried, uh-oh, there's two great weaknesses of the Phyrexians. The first weakness is they can't move between planes. But he did. there's two great weaknesses of the Phraxians. The first weakness is they can't move between planes.

But he did. And the second time we see the Phraxians, we see them Phraxinize a planeswalker. So, uh-oh, that was their second weakness. They couldn't Phraxinize planeswalkers. That too is solved. And so we were able to sort of, in the first two visits, sort of really establish that the things that were problems, they're overcoming their problems.

So at least for the people that were more tuned in're overcoming their problems. So at least for the people that were more tuned in, this was subtle, but for the Vorthorses out there, we really are hammering home, they're going to be a problem. So next time, the very next set, Streets of New Capenna, we see the Red Praetor.

And he's there, he's a little more skeptical. He's not a big fan of Elish Norr and he's sort of the rebel of the Praetors and he's coming to figure out, on streets of New Capenna, they were able to stop the Phyrexian invasion in their path

and he's coming to learn and get information about that, understand Halo and such, or Abrask is the Red Praetor. Okay, so year one, we free Elspeth from the underworld. Year two,

we introduce you get to see that Vorenkleks is free. Year three, we see Zetian Taxis is free. We learn that they now know how to Frexenize Planeswalkers, and we see the first Frexenized Planeswalker, and also Ourobrask makes an appearance. Okay, now we're setting up for the fourth and final year of our story.

So one of the things we decided when telling the story, partly was we didn't want to drag on the same characters, sort of learning some lessons from Bolas, and we've learned that the Phyrexians, there is definitely an audience that loves the Phyrexians, especially the enfranchised players, but they're a little freaky, they have a horror element

to them. We've learned that sort of the non-enfranchised players find them a little bit freaky, so we don't want to extend their stay too long. So obviously the first couple years, they're showing up in small amounts. So we don't want to extend their stay too long. So obviously the first couple years, they're just showing up in small amounts. So then in Dominaria United, it's sort of the beginning of the magic year. We're really going to ramp up our story. So the idea was the story's at a low burn for the first couple years, and then we ramp it up for the last year. So the first thing we do is we go back to Dominaria United. We're going to see another Praetor, this time Sheldred,

and she is going to have some Phraxians with her. So for the first time, you're seeing sort of a Phraxian force. Now, to sort of play into the nostalgia of Dominaria and to Sheldred, all the Phraxians in the set are black. So if you want to play Phraxians,

it's very localized where it is. And if you don't want to play Phraxians, okay, you know, if you don't play black, you won't run into any Phyrexians, it's very localized where it is. And if you don't want to play Phyrexians, okay, you know, if you don't play black, you won't run into any Phyrexians. And there's plenty of black things that aren't Phyrexians. The other thing we do is we Phyrexianize a second planeswalker to really up the stakes. Again, pick someone who's an emotional favorite of the audience, a Johnny. The other important thing of a Johnny is Phyrexianizing a Johnny lets the gatewatch know what's going on. So they've kind of been unaware. We have let you, the audience, know the threat of what's going on.

So you can anticipate, uh-oh, something's happening. But it's not until, the story doesn't sort of pick up paces until Ajani gets Phyrexianized, which lets the Gatewatch, Teferi in particular, know what's going on. Then, the next set is Brothers War. So what we wanted to do was have the Frexians show up a little bit, but we wanted it to sort of weave into the larger story. Basically what's going on is Teferi's like, okay, we now know the Frexian threat is real.

We're worried about them. All the Gatewatch understand how dire a threat the Phyrexians are. But their issue is, oh, they were trapped on Nufrexia. Okay, we have them contained. So once they realize that not only are they seeing a Praetor, but the Praetors brought other Phyrexians

along, it's looking bad. So what they need to do is there was a device that Urza used to end the Brothers War, the Golgothian Silex, that they think might be the answer to the Fraxians. The problem is, it got used by Urza and destroyed when it got used. And there's no other one.

So they go back in time. So Teferi takes Saheeli back in time. Teferi is a time, you know, he can manipulate time. And Saheeli has the ability to replicate things mechanically. So they go back in time. Now notice they're not interacting with anybody. They're just sort of witnessing. But they get to see the Brothers War.

And the key is they got to find the Golgothian Psylics so that she can copy it. They're successful in their mission. They do that. The nice thing about the Brothers' Wars, we also get to show you the Phyrexians of the past. This is the Yawgmoth Phyrexians. But you get to see a little bit of the Phyrexians. So when we come back,

one of the things we knew we wanted to do was we wanted an all-out Phyrexian set. There are players that love the Phyrexians, and we wanted to make sure we did the payoff. So we wanted a set that had Phyrexian set. There are players that love the Phyrexians and we wanted to make sure we did the payoff. So we wanted a set that had Phyrexians and poison and proliferate and Phyrexian mana and all the things that you associate with Phyrexia. So the idea is once they have the Silex, the Gatewatch goes to do Phyrexia, planning to stop the Phyrexians. Things go horribly awry, mostly because they are unaware that the Phyrexians now can Phyrexianize planeswalkers.

And so what happens is numerous planeswalkers get Phyrexianized, including Jace. As his last act before he becomes Phyrexianized, Jace decides he's going to set off the Psylics. Some of the open paths are open, and he realizes that blowing up New Phyrexia will also destroy several other worlds. But his thought is, if they get out, they're going to take over the whole universe, the whole multiverse. You know, okay, maybe we're sacrificing a few worlds, but it's a greater good, is Jace's thought. Elisabeth catches him. She takes off. She ends up transporting it into the Blind Eternities and where it goes off.

It appears that Elbeth has died. Elspeth always appears. It's hard to kill Elspeth, so whenever you think she's died, she's not quite dead yet. But anyway, the idea was we'd wrap up with a big, giant final set that was the Phraxians fulfilling

their plan. And that idea is literally an attack across the multiverse. And so we get to see the Phyrexians invade basically every world that we know, almost every world that we know. And it was a very large, giant scope, big fight. And we see the Phyrexians fall. The denizens of the world are able to hold off the Phyrexians.

Oh, another part of the story that we had set up a while ago, Zulfir was part of Jamora, the home, I don't know, town, home section of Jamora that Teferi's from. When the Phyrexians are attacking in the invasion block, he phases out Zulfir with the idea to give them time to get ready for the Phrexian invasion, but he then loses his spark in the mending, and he's unable to free them. Also what happens is he finally gets his spark back,

but the sparks aren't as strong as they were before the mending, so he's not able to get them back. And that's a sore point for Teferi, who's very torn up about it. Anyway, as part of the story, they're able to freeze all fear. Elisabeth gets turned into an angel. There's a bunch of stuff that happens. Those combined with the different planes pulling together, they managed to stop the Phyrexian invasion. They were able to stop it.

And that was sort of the whole thing. So a big part of it was, a lot of the planning of it was we wanted to sort of create, like, we had set up, obviously, the Phyrexians, their storyline has happened in pieces. The latest version of the Phyrexians, the Elish Norn Phyrexians, we knew that we wanted to build them up. We spent a lot of time in Scarves of Mirrodin. That whole block was just

about kind of giving them a win and making them a threat, knowing that we would pay it off. And this whole arc was about paying that off. And like I said, we did a lot of things a little bit differently this time, just trying to shake things up. You know, I liked the slow burn start was kind of cool, where, look, if you're not paying attention, you know,

a lot of people played Call of Time, didn't really pay much attention to Vorinclex or whatever. But those in the know knew to get scared when they saw Vorinclex. So that was kind of cool. And it was also very neat. The other big thing we did is in Phyrexia All Be One, we made a set that was all about sort of what the Phyrexia is. And then in the March of the Machine,

we sort of played up the Frexians as a threat and made it more of a conflict between two sides. So it was fun sort of showing different aspects of the Frexians depending on the kind of set we were building. I don't think any other sort of larger structural stuff. I mean, we definitely made sure that every time you saw the Phyrexians, there was a little more to learn and a little more of a threat.

You know, we really wanted to sort of catch you off guard and surprise you that Vorinclex was supposed to be a surprise, Tamio getting, you know, Phyrexianized was supposed to be a surprise. So we had some moments leading up to really sort of hint at what was coming. Now, we've gotten some feedback. I think there's some worry that March was so large in scope that it just happened too quickly, that the whole thing was just one single set

versus multiple sets. You know, I think in the past, because of blocks and stuff, we've done some larger scale things as far as the story stretching over multiple sets. You know, I think in the past, because of blocks and stuff, we've done some larger scale things as far as the story stretching over multiple things. So there's definitely, we got the note that some people wanted it to stretch out more. The thing that I like was,

I feel like we spent some time building up, the story itself, I mean, one of the lessons from the, from the Bullets arc is kind of, you know, figure out your story and get to the story and don't just sort of drag it along too long. I think we spun our wheels a little bit in the Bullets arc

in ways we didn't need to. Although, the Bullets arc did what the Ferguson arc did as well, something that Magic did as well, where we're telling stories, right? Where, you know, that not every set is necessarily the big story, but you want to always be sort of advancing. And then every once in a while, you have larger sets that are about the bigger story.

That sometimes you have sets that are about smaller stories, more inter-plane stories, or even if they involve the planeswalkers, it's something of a smaller thing. But one of the fun things is you want to introduce characters in, you know, magic is an ongoing narrative. Kind of the first people to sort of do this was soap operas. The idea that I'm just going to keep telling the story and I'm never going to stop.

It's not as if there's a beginning or an end. I mean, I guess there's a beginning, but I'm just going to keep advancing and keep telling new stories. And one of the ways you want to do that kind of storytelling is you have to what we call layer the story, which means I'm going to tell you a story, but while I'm telling you a story that's about thing A, I'm kind of giving you hints about thing B. And normally what you want to do is

you want to do what we call throw forwards, where I introduce something and I don't make a big deal of it, but I'm like, oh, this might be a problem down the road, or I introduce characters that might be up to no good, or whatever. I introduce you elements that then can pay off. And if we're doing our job well, the audience doesn't necessarily know exactly, you know, we're telling you a lot of little stories, and not every little story pays off, but some of them will pay off. So part of the fun of it is figuring out ways to sort of set up what's coming. Like I said, figuring out ways to sort of set up what's coming.

Like I said, the Bolas Ark did a good job of setting up sort of the premise for the Phraxian Ark. There needed to be a way for the Phraxians to get off. That was their Achilles heel. Well, we had to solve that problem. And the events of the Bolas Ark allowed us to get that thing that would solve it. And it was done in such a way that the Tezzeret and the Planter Bridge had a function in the Bolas Ark.

It was about getting the Eternals there. So it feels self-contained. It doesn't necessarily feel like, oh, well, what's this doing? It felt like, oh, it had a purpose, and that purpose got used in the story we were telling, but it had a secondary purpose. And so the other thing I will say

is we were definitely planning other storylines. So the Phyrexian Ark, there are things in the Phyrexian arc that will lead to future stories. So one of the ways you always want to sort of layer your stories like that. So whenever you're finished with one story, there's other stories coming. Now, like War of the Spark, one of the things we decided after March on the Sheen was, okay, let's calm down a little bit. You know, we can see some stories and tell you some other stuff. And so there's a little bit of

letting you guys have a little time off. But I will say that we're going to do, you know, the next story is going to come and there'll be elements of it. And you won't necessarily know what elements are or aren't of it until you see it. But that is something I did enjoy

about the Frexian arc is it definitely put its stake in the stand at spots, to sort of, if you're paying attention, to say, hey, here's something to worry about. Here's the villain doing something that, if you know what's going on, you should be. And then, obviously, we ramp up the story later on for those that are less familiar with the story.

But anyway, guys, that is my drive home. So I hope you guys were enjoying this peek at it. I got a lot of good feedback on the Bolas arc, so I'm hoping you guys enjoyed it. The interesting thing about this arc where it differed a little bit from the Bolas arc, although the Bolas arc went through changes, is we definitely had some ideas that sort of didn't quite pan out. Some of the stuff we were planning to do with some of the early sets. So it didn't change the larger Phyrexian story. We always were going to show you Phyrexians

that had escaped from New Phyrexia. And we were always leading to this end state. But we changed up a little bit about how we wanted to get there. So that was hopefully some new news. I guess we haven't told before, I don't think. Or if I did, I told it in't told before, I don't think. Or if I did, I told it in past

because it's a little more detailed for you. But anyway, that, my friends, is the Fruxian Arc. If you enjoy stuff like this, by the way,

I'm, being a thousand podcast plus in, I'm definitely looking for different kinds of things. This was inspired by the Bulls Arc.

People like the Bulls Arc. So, if you'd like to hear more things like this and stuff like this is cool to you or you don't want to hear it and you're like, stop telling about story stuff, let me know. And then I can sort of guide it based on that.

But anyway, guys, I'm driving up to my house as we speak. So we all know what that means. It means this is the end of my drive from work. And so instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be eating dinner. So anyway, I hope you guys enjoyed today's podcast. And I will see you next time.

Bye-bye.