Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #1223: Design Feedback

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

In this episode, I explain the numerous ways designers give feedback to each other by going through the entire exploratory design and vision design process.

I'm pulling on my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for the drive to work. Okay, so today's topic is from a blog. I've talked in the past. I've done podcasts on feedback from players, but someone wanted to know about feedback from other designers. How do we, what process do we use in the making of magic to get feedback from one another? And so today that is my topic, feedback from designers. So what I decided I was going to do is I'm going to run through the exploratory design and vision design portions of design as that's what I oversee. And I'm going to give like sort of tangible examples of how we do feedback. So really quickly for those that might

not remember what exploratory design and vision design is, there's a metaphor I like to use, which is house building. When making a magic set, we are building a house. So exploratory design is doing sort of research. Where would we like to build the house? What type of houses are there? Are there new building materials we might want to consider? It's doing all the prep work so that you understand the parameters of what you need to do when you go to build the house. Vision design is like architecture. You are, you know, putting together

the general structure of the set. You're picking most of the mechanics, the themes. You're making the general shape of what the mechanic will be. And essentially you're making blueprints. Then the set design team, they are the builders. They are building the actual house. And they look at your floor plans and all your architectural things and mostly they build the house that you have drawn. But when building the house, sometimes things have to shift. That wall doesn't quite work if it goes there.

They have to make decisions that affect the actual building of the house. And then play design is kind of like interior design. They're putting the final touches on everything. They're making sure that the house is as useful and functional and as good as it can be. So I oversee the first two parts, Exploratory Design and Vision Design. So we're gonna talk about those today,

just because it's the area of most expertise in. And on some level, if you understand how we do it, a lot of the things I'm talking about here apply to later in the process. Okay. So let's go to the very beginning, exploratory design. So the very first thing we do in exploratory design, like I said, is we are exploring veins of ideas. I will use Aether Drift just because that's the most recent set that has come out since

I've recorded this podcast. So Ather Drift was, we knew we were doing a racing set and at the core that meant we were doing a vehicle set. We wanted to care about vehicles. So a lot of early exploratory design was, okay, what can we do with vehicles? And some of that is looking and saying, what can we do with vehicles? And some of that is looking and saying what have we done with vehicles? There's a certain amount of very early exploratory design meetings that are what we call sort of talking meetings, right?

We're looking at what we have done. We're looking at potential of what we could do. We do brainstorming. There's a lot of sort of like whiteboard work where we're talking things through and writing it down to try to explore what space is there. Normally when we start, the very first thing we tend to do is we said what have we done in this space? What could we do in this space?

And then also because everything we do has some element of resonance to it, we also talk a little bit of okay, if we made a racing set, what would the players expect us to do? I mean, vehicles are the obvious one, but what else? What are the concepts? What are the ideas? You know, we're playing in space we haven't played before. What is the novel space we could play in? And what is the expectations of the audience? So the first thing there is we will have a lot of meetings where we're talking, where we're just discussing things. We do have what we call theory crafting, which is sort of trying to figure out mechanics through the logic of, well, what have we done before? How does this compare to what we've done before? You know, oh, this mechanic is

kind of a combination of two things we've done before. We've never combined them before, but we have knowledge of each of the individual things. So the early communication and feedback tends to be in the room talking with one another. And that the idea, one of the things about brainstorms, there's this idea that in brainstorming, you're not supposed to be critical. But they've actually found out that that's not true. That a little bit of like, if someone brings something up

and you really discuss it right in the moment, that then can lead to other discussions. If someone says, what if idea X, you might go, oh, well, here's my concern about idea acts. People go, oh, no, but I have a way to address that or, oh, we can slightly shift and do this. There's having some critical talk early on actually has proven to be very valuable. The science behind it says that it actually gets better results versus I say stuff and

no one makes any commentary on anything I say. So that's the first feedback. The first feedback is very direct person to person. You are just like, and the one of the neat things about design that I like a lot, especially early design, is look, we all have the same goal. We all want to make the best, make the best magic set we can.

And so a lot of times it's just really interesting of people pitching different ideas. And then there's a lot of what I will call going down the path, which is someone say, what if we do thing X and it's really fun to say, okay, well, let's imagine we do that. What are the ramifications? What would that mean to the set?

What would it mean to mechanics around it? Like you wanna sort of explore, if I did something, what would it mean? And so there's a lot of really interesting early conversations that's just us sort of like said, theory crafting and figuring out what it means. Okay, so at some point we get ideas we like. We go, you know, there's ideas that show potential.

So the next thing we'll do in exploratory design is we need to start playing with them. And one of the truisms of magic design is theory crafting only gets you so far. There's only so much you can do talking about a mechanic. Even though, yes, we have experience with other mechanics that are similar. I mean, it's not that we can't get a lot done with the theory of crafting, but theory of crafting only gets you so far. At some level, in order to understand how a mechanic plays, you have to play with the mechanic.

And it is very eye-opening. You can talk about all sorts of stuff, but the second you play with it, you have to start facing real ramifications because you're playing with it, you have to start facing real, real ramifications because you're playing with it. And sometimes ideas that sound great in concept hat don't play that well, that are clunky or hard to track or, you know, there's something about them that doesn't quite live up to the dream of what you hoped it would be.

Other times, mechanics exceed your expectations. Like, Oh wow, this was way more to fun than I thought. And so the idea is we sit, okay, so the way we do this is in exploratory, we tend to build 40 card decks. And normally in a 40 card deck, you only need six to eight of the cards to be new. Sometimes there's more new cards.

And when we actually get into Vision, where sometimes we do pre-construct decks in Vision, there you have some of the file to work with and you're more likely to pull cards from the file. In exploratory, no file exists yet. So mostly what happens is you design the new cards that you need and then you pull everything else you need from existing magic. And it really depends, normally what you want to do is, we tend to look at stuff like course sets. You want to look at foundations

and you want to sort of grab pretty simple things. Cause the idea is you're not trying to pull focus from the thing you're testing. The reason I'm making a deck is, I make, I say six to eight is the minimum, you can make more. But you want to make enough that the deck does something and that you can sort of see it. We over index early on because we

want to make sure that we see things. Once again early early design is not about balance or power it's about understanding it is about experience and seeing the mechanic and especially exploratory design mostly what you want to do is just experience it and often sometimes you play with you like oh this volume is too high Hey, but I kind of like what's going on in actual magic when you actually make the sets You're very careful on the exact as fan and you think a lot about the the whole environment But early on you're just trying to find the things that you like. Oh And I've talked about this before so in exploratory design. We have what we call three buckets So whenever you play a mechanic, there's one of three things that you like. Oh and I've talked about this before so in exploratory design we have what we call three buckets so whenever you play a mechanic there's one of three things

that is true. Bucket number one is it's good we like it television design they should consider this is a good mechanic. Bucket number two is this is not good we can do not waste vision's time we will save vision time do not mess mess with this. It is bad. And then there's the third bucket, which actually where a lot of things go, which is there's potential, but it has not met its potential. Meaning there's things flawed about it, but there's something here.

I wouldn't throw it away. It's not bucket two. It's not like, you can ignore this, but it's not bucket one. It needs more exploration. And exploratory design often will go back when things are in the third bucket and tweak. The other thing that happens sometimes

during play tests, by the way, is sometimes you tweak during the play test. Let's say you start playing and you realize really quickly something isn't working. Well, okay, in the middle of play test, you can just change things. You can change parameters. And then once again, the idea of the playtest is to experience things. And so,

you know, in the moment you want to make sure that, you know, if something isn't working, try something else. You want your sampling. It's fine to change things if what you're sampling isn't working. Okay, so what happens is we do playtests. Normally, exploratory design are one hour meetings. We have two one hour meetings every week. Usually what happens is we'll have one hour where we playtests. Sometimes we'll have discussions at the end of the hour if we very quickly figured out what we think.

Sometimes if there's more complexity, we'll talk the next time. And usually the rule is after we're done playing, we talk, sometimes we talk a little bit and then we leave. So we have a place where we have all, it's a place where we were already can discuss things. And then each set has its own group of channels. One of the channels is gameplay. So normally when you're working on the set from an R and D perspective, you're the gameplay thing is where you put stuff. So every time you have a meeting, somebody in the meeting takes notes from the meeting and they post what happened at the meeting.

And the reason for that is, A, sometimes people miss meetings, sometimes people join sets later into it. Obviously the set design team's gonna wanna look back and see what exploratory and vision will wanna look back. So later teams wanna look back, it gives you a record and sometimes because you're looking at so many different things in exploratory It's easy to forget things like let's say we're you know during the course of exploratory is two to three months Three months is when it's a newer set that has more things that explore two months more like overdoing a return or something

We understand the parameters better But anyway at the end of that, maybe you had three months of exploratory design and you tried out 60 mechanics. Well, it's sometimes hard to remember exactly all those mechanics, they blur. And so you wanna take notes, they have that. The other reason for those notes is

when we do a play test, people can put their notes in the play test. Once again, we talk live, so sometimes people won't put notes and they'll just talk live. Sometimes we have people that aren't on the team and they usually put their notes in writing because they're not necessarily going to be there when we discuss it. But there's an option, one of the things that's always true is even when we do like, we're doing sort of theory crafting,

if you have ideas, if we talked about something, and after we left the meeting, an idea hit you, or a different vantage point, like just something that you thought about outside of the meeting, you can use the channel to write your thoughts. It's very common, like there's, in the gameplay, we often have stuff like, okay, there's meeting notes, okay, there's brainstorming, okay, there's in the gameplay we often have stuff like okay there's meeting notes okay there's brainstorming okay there's you know we have play testing and thoughts on

play testing but also sometimes they're just hey somebody just occurred to me so I'm going to write it out. Sometimes that somebody comes up with a mechanic and they write it out sometimes they just have an idea how to adjust something we've already done but people can whenever they want if they have ideas they can post those ideas in the channel And so a lot of the feedback in exploratory is sort of like I said, there's verbal feedback There is written feedback and those are the two and in the earliest stages. Those are the two most common kinds of feedback Now at the end of exploratory, sometimes in the

early vision, we have a thing we call the kickoff conference. So the kickoff conference is, and like I said, for universes beyond, we tend to do it at the end of exploratory. In multiverse sets, we tend to do it early in vision, but after vision starts. For example, I'm right now on, I'm working on two sets. One is a UB set and one is a multiverse set. The UB set, we did our talk right as we finished exploratory design. And for Dublin, which was the magic in multiverse set, we did it about two months into vision. Vision usually is about four months. It can be as little as three, as much as six, but normally it's about four months.

So about halfway in on a multiple in multiple set. The other thing is, well I can't, so it there are some variants when exactly the kickoff conference happens. But anyway the idea of the kickoff conference is the team who's working on the set says, okay let us give you the big picture of what we know so far. Maybe we have some ideas for mechanics, maybe we have some idea for themes, maybe we have some idea for themes, maybe we have some connective tissue. But basically what we want to do is talk to and it's all the designers get invited to this. And what we're doing is we're sort of mapping out our thoughts of where we think we're going. And we not only say what we think we know, we

say what we don't know, We say the questions that we have. We say the problems we know we're trying to solve. What we're trying to do is lay out everything that's going on at the time to really give a really good sense of here is the issues at hand. And the reason we're doing this is, hey, this is the rest of R&D. These are the designers that work on magic sets. And so, A, maybe they have feedback on ideas that we're talking about.

Maybe we're doing something that they've done something similar that there's concerns or worries, or maybe something they did that worked for them they wanna share. Maybe they have answers to some of our problems. Maybe they're like, oh, well you mentioned this is a problem, but maybe you wanna think of this or that. Also, they can try to poke holes in things, maybe we say, here's our structure.

They go, well, down the road, this is going to cause you problems because of A, B or C. So really what it is, it's sort of a vetting of our ideas. But very, very early on, that the point is, this is early enough that nothing is said in stone, that if someone, if we get enough feedback that something's going in the wrong direction, we can change direction. This is not, this is like the earliest check-in that we have. And the real idea there is we want to make sure that people have some ability when it's, you know, before the paint is even close to being dry, when it's, you know, or maybe I

should use clay. The clay is still wet. It is still can be formed. The clay hasn't dried yet And yet you have the ability really to mope to mope to shape and and Model what you want to be doing and so the the feedback is very valuable And like I said, it's very very early, but so that's another type of feedback that we get

Okay Now we get into vision design So vision design the difference between exploratory and vision design is exploratory, the end state of exploratory is here are a whole bunch of mechanics and mechanical components that we've explored. We've mapped out things for you, we put them in the three buckets, here are things that you, the people who are going to make the initial file, need to look at. So the idea of vision is we do make a file in vision. The file we make is not the final

file. It is what we call a proof of concept. And what that means is it's not enough to just once again theorycraft it to go, here's our general idea of what we want the set to look like. We have to make it. And so we make a file so that the people downstream of us really understand what we're saying. We're not sort of saying, imagine here's what we're doing. And it gives a good chance to show things like as fan and to show like where the theme where we think the themes want to sit. We'll do a lot of color identity early on like, Oh, well, we think this mechanical be here. Now, once again, when they go to build the house, sometimes the themes want to sit. We'll do a lot of color identity early on like, oh well we think this mechanic will be here. Now, once again, when they go to build the house, sometimes

things will move around. Oh, you guys originally put the mechanics in red and green, but you know what we found out? Blue really needs this mechanic, because blue is light, whatever, as you build the house. But the idea essentially is we are sort of building the set that is going to be the proof of concept for what we're going to do. Now, as people know who read my column, there's a handoff document that we call the Vision Design handoff. I posted lots of those. And that essentially is the Vision Design team.

The two things you hand over from Vision Design is a file and the document. And the document really says, hey, here's all the things we're thinking about. Here are the mechanics we have. Here's the themes we have. Here's the major goals of the set. Here's the vision of the set. Here's what we think that that is trying to do. Okay. So early vision, uh, the idea is you want to get a file up and going as fast as you can once again, because we all about iteratingating. I mean, I would argue most creative elements are about iteration, but imagine design, iteration means we make cards. We play with those cards, we get feedback on those cards, we make changes. And when I say

we make cards, we make mechanics, we make cycles, like we're making all the component pieces that we think the set needs. So the idea essentially is once you get to vision you want to start playtesting your set as soon as you can it used to be back in the day it would take two to three months to get to your first play test we now try to get to the first play test within a month and sometimes if exploratory was like sometimes exploratory really figures things out and you can start the ball running. I had a set pretty recently where exploratory really like we figured out structurally what we think we wanted to do in exploratory.

So vision just could start. I mean we built the set right away. So the idea is early vision. The first thing you do is you build the commons and then the first play test you have is either all commons or sometimes it has a few uncommons in it. We used to just do all common play tests and we learned that just having a little bit of uncommons in it helps a lot of shaping and giving a little sense of what's going on and

there are certain mechanics that you want in higher and lower volume and just having a little bit of that helps you. But anyway, the idea essentially is we do play tests. Play tests usually start as sealed. The only thing that happens sometime in early vision is sometimes in very early vision, I actually assign colors. The reason for that is the set is not balanced yet. And if you just let players play the best deck they can find, you have the problem that everybody plays the same colors and nobody experiences certain colors. Oh, well, the cards that have me in the file, because it's

not super balanced yet, you know, black and red is really good. Well, then no one's playing green and white and blue. So sometimes in early early design, you assign colors. Sometimes you assign one column pick the second color. Sometimes you only give them cards of two colors. They're absolutely doing that. But once again early design Is all about experience and understanding. Do we like things or not like things? It's not about card balance It's not about car power. It's not even about environmental synergies. Yeah, that's later So the feedback of that once again, the play tests are a lot like the play testing and exploratory There is a thread that you can respond to so normally after a play test Once again, the play tests are a lot like the play testing and exploratory.

There is a thread that you can respond to. So normally after a play test, there's a thread and you can make notes in it. Anybody who's external to the team for sure puts notes. People on the team, they sometimes put notes, sometimes they don't. If they're going to be in the meeting and know they're going to talk through the meeting, they can give their notes in the meeting. But the idea is mostly what you want to do, especially in early vision, is what was fun? What did we like? What do we not like? And in a lot of ways, what

we're doing in early vision is testing out what mechanics we might want. Obviously, exploratory design did a lot of the prep work, but now we're actually starting to make, and we're not just playing one mechanic. Like we, for example, the reason we do pre-constructed decks in exploratory is we're trying to focus very specifically on the one thing. What we tend to do in vision is put a bunch of mechanics we think we like in. And sometimes even early vision, it might be a little loaded, meaning more than we actually put in. And even when we put them in, we sometimes put them in at a higher as than the ultimately

end up. Once again, it's about sampling. We need to sample things. And so, and because it's not environmental yet, we're just trying to get a sense of what do we think of it. We will normally put in more things than we need. And then the idea of the early play test is the feedback we're looking for is what do you like? What should we keep? What should we change? What should we get rid of? And then we get that feedback. And once again, we get it through writing,

we get it through verbal stuff in the meetings. And then the idea is during the course of your, like, vision's roughly four months. During the course of your vision design, you keep incrementing and iterating on the file. You keep adding things. When you hand off the file from vision to set design, we are obligated to have all the comments, all the uncommons and enough rares that you can draft.

Normally, when we handle revision, we try to fill up the rares and mythic rares. So we do like having them. It depends a lot on the state of where vision is at. Sometimes the vision is bogged down a little bit and like sometimes you figure things out early and then you can evolve the set quite a bit and you can get to rares no problem. Sometimes you struggle a little bit early on trying to figure out what the set wants to be and then sometimes you you eat up time doing that. So vision doesn't have to handle all the rares. The rares and mythic rares will mostly get changed in set design. A lot of the common building block stuff,

that's the stuff most likely to stay. Lots and lots of stuff gets tweaked by the way. I would say what we hand over in Vision design, maybe 10 to 20 percent like it's inspiration for later stuff. Sometimes it's more top-down sets usually have a higher percentage just because for later stuff. Sometimes it's more top-down sets usually have a higher percentage just because sometimes in top-down sets you're mapping out the what you're trying to represent like from a resident standpoint and even though they might change the actual card what that card represents again in UBSets universities beyond sets a lot of vision design is mapping out characters and saying or mapping out characters and objects and events and what are the key things that people are going to expect show up and

figuring out where those things have to live often happens in vision and then what happens is the next thing that happens is you start making a file now once you have a file we have a new place for feedback and that is in the file itself so we have a database we currently call Drake and the database one of the fields in it is there's a field it's called dev devs comments which is short for developers comments from back in the day when we designed and development and for some reason development made more comments than designed it although design made plenty comments but anyway it was called devs comments, still called Deb's comments.

Even though what we call people has changed, it's kind of like carbon copy, I guess. Some terminology just lives on. So anyway, you can make comments in Deb's comments. So anybody who is either not on the team or usually the leader of the team at some point, midway through vision will say to the team, hey guys, do a pass on the file. What that means is go through the file, look at every card. If you have

any comments on the card, leave a note in the depth comments. Um, and people who are external to that can do it as well. Uh, for example, um, I, for, for Marvel sets, I'm what's known as a smee, a subject matter expert. So I often would do passes on Marvel files and just, I would do notes that are nothing about, oh, in the comics, this is what the character does. And oh, you might want to tweak this to better represent who the character, you're like, I'm giving notes to maximize

making the cards as flavorful as they can be. Sometimes, for example, I know people will do passes and give color pie notes. Oh, this example, I know people will do passes and give color pie notes. Oh, this is a little off pie for this color. But anyway, people can give whatever notes they want. Anybody in R&D is free to go through a file pass and leave notes. And meanwhile, another big thing that happens is, so the area we work in we call the pit. It's pretty open There's tables in the pit where you can play And the idea of the pit is we like to

encourage conversations Live so sometimes some talk that will happen where you know I'm sitting near somebody who's working on my side with me and we should start picking up a conversation And then somebody's not even working on the step who's working on my set with me. And we just started picking up a conversation. And then somebody who's not even working on the set who's interested in the conversation, might chime in and make a comment. And maybe they bring up something that's going off on some other stuff that's happening.

But the idea also is there's a lot of what I call live feedback where ideas come up and you talk them through and other people get involved. And so one of the reasons that the pit is pretty cool is that there are people who are not working on the set that you are currently working on who have valuable information. And that's why the kickoff conference is the same kind of thing. Okay. Then about a month before you finish, anywhere from two to four weeks before you finish,

we have what we call the vision summit. So what the vision summit is, is once again, you get a lot of R and D. The kickoff conference tends to have more people in it than the vision summit. Vision summit's a little smaller of a group. But the idea is that group will play your set. Most of the time the default is it's a draft.

Sometimes we do pre-constructed DACs, it depends. The lead of the set has a lot of say of what they think will best show off what they're trying to demonstrate. Sometimes a draft does a really good job, sometimes pre-constructed decks, it varies. I have also seen this occasionally do sealed. But anyway, the idea is this group comes and they actually play with your set. They're not being talked to. It's not, it's not like the kickoff conference is more theory crafting and that we're just

talking about it. That no one's actually played it. But the vision summit, vision design summit, you are playing the set. And usually you play for about an hour and a half. And then there's one hour meeting where all the people literally just walk through every mechanic, every theme and just share their thoughts on it. And normally coming out of that, and there's lots of different people, you're hearing from set designers and play designers about what might be problems later on in the process.

You'll hear from editors, from rules people, from digital, from organized play, like lots of different people that have a lot of different sort of says on how this, in the area that they care about, how this is gonna play out. And that's important because a lot of other people have to make the magic set and you need to listen to them because what you're doing in vision is gonna shape everything else. That if you don't make something that can be programmed

or templated or work in the rules that's going to be changed later on right so you want to make sure that you are making something that can be adapted and adjusted you know you you're making you want to make you want to make blueprints that will work you know I don't want to make a blueprint where as soon as they go build the house they go oh this wall can't go there you know yeah I know you wanted to go there but when I see the actual layout of the ground the wall can't go there. You know, yeah, I know you wanted to go there, but when I see the actual layout of the ground, the wall can't go there.

And so you want to sort of do as much as we can. And so the idea of the Vision Summit is just very hard and crunchy. It's very technical. You know, we walk in the mechanics and we talk about what we do and don't like. Then the idea is the team takes the material from the Vision Summit.

Like I said, it's usually two to four weeks before the set hands off. If we think that the feedback is something we can handle in that time, we do. If we feel like, oh wow, the set had a lot more feedback than we expected, or there's more that needs to be worked on, sometimes we will extend vision design. The way the schedules are built is there's some, what

would it call it, some lax time built in the schedule. Meaning if we need extra time somewhere we have the ability to get that. And so if vision is really struggling like what the things we've learned is there's no, it makes no sense to take a vision design that isn't quite working and send it to set design. It just will cause problems for set design. The things that need to be solved, vision design is just better at solving the set design. So let's give vision design a little more time to solve that.

Sometimes it's very common on vision design teams to have the set design lead on the vision design team. If there are problems with the vision design or you know if the vision summit recognizes some things that need to be addressed and the lead set designer isn't yet on the set normally they will join at that point just so we can hammer through things and I will also stress the reason sometimes things don't go well in a vision summit is hey we are being aggressive. Vision wants to do the most aggressive version

of what we can do. And so normally what happens is when we build things in vision, in vision design, we have our aggressive version and we have the fallback plan. And so normally what we try in the vision summit is the aggressive version of things. But we like to build in what the fallback plan is. And then getting the notes from the vision summit, we can understand of, hey, does that aggressive thing work? Can set design continue along the aggressive thing? Or, oh, maybe that's a problem.

And sometimes the answer is we're not sure yet. Let's set design, play around with it. Sometimes it's like, no, hey, vision, let's spend a little more time on getting the backup. And so anyway, that is also important feedback. So like I said, the biggest type of feedbacks that we get in working on the early part of design is we have the ongoing commentary, that's the gameplay thread. We have the file itself that people can make notes in, we have live stuff that goes on meetings

and once again we take notes. So the stuff that gets reflected in meetings also gets put into our thread. There is just talk in the pit, there is the kickoff conference, there is the vision summit, vision design summit. And there's just a lot of check-ins along the way where there's different people looking at different things.

If, for example, I am not leading the design, I normally lead exploratory. If I'm not leading vision, I have one-on-one meetings with the person who's leading the vision. I'm on the team. But while I'm on the team, I'm more of a team member. And then if I have critical commentary or really want to talk through what's going on, we do that in the one-on-one.

And the idea of the one-on-one is opportunity for media feedback of, okay, here are the things that need to get addressed. Here are problems that I recognize. You know, I have a lot of experience making sets. And so, you know, as the, you know, head designer, I can walk through in the one-on-one things to sort of say, I don't try to solve the problem for them as much as I just try to let them know, here are the problems, you need to solve these problems. And then, if they have trouble, they can come to me and I can give advice.

But one of the big things about trying to, when someone else is leading something, I want them to make their set. I don't want them to make my set. So really what I'm trying to do is guide them into figuring out how to solve. I want them to understand the problems that they have to solve. Anyway, so that my friends is all the feedback. I think I hit all the major ones of the feedback we get during the early part of design. So anyway, if you want to know how we designers give feedback to one another, that was today's topic. So anyway, I hope you enjoyed this, but I'm now at work. So we all know what that means.

It means this is the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. I'll see you guys next time. Bye bye.