Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #1273: Marvel's Spider-Man Set Design with Corey Bowen

Episode Date: September 5, 2025

In this podcast, I sit down with Corey Bowen, the lead set designer of Magic: The Gathering® | Marvel's Spider-Man, to talk about the set's design.

I'm not pulling out my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for another drive-to-work at home edition. So often when I do this, I like to interview people. And that is today. We have Corey Bowen, the lead designer, lead set designer of Spider-Man. Hey, Corey. Hello. Hello, hello, hello. Okay, so let's go to the very beginning. So, um, we get the Marvel license. We're doing, multiple Marvel sets. I was actually tagged to do the second one, which we'll talk about a year from now, but you were tagged to do the first set. So, where do you begin doing Spider-Man? Yeah, I mean, I begin doing Spider-Man. I'm attached to the set with, at the time, Glenn, I don't know if we want to talk about the early process. That's fine, it's working on it,

and I am poised to take over set design for this. At the time, really, we were... We are just focusing on making a bunch of cool resonant Spider-Man cards. Yeah, so the set, I talked about this in my article. The set started as a small set, and as we try to fit things in, we realized that we wanted it to be bigger. There's a lot of factors here, but we just wanted the set to be bigger. So how did you figure out what to put in a Spider-Man set? Like, what was your process to figure out what goes in it? Yeah, Spider-Man is, you know, as you know, a really big property, or rather a really large story that has existed for such a long time.

How many of these stories do you tell? What do people know? What do we want to uplift? And most importantly, what are the characters that we want to show off? It kind of starts in understanding the different eras of Spider-Man through the comic lens, the eras of Spider-Man through the modern zeitgeist's lens. How much of this set is classic Spider-Man, how much of this set is influenced by some of the popularity of the newer comics, or the Spider-verse movies, or the Tom Holland movies, etc., the MCU movies, maybe. And really balancing those levers we start, I think, of course, with what does a Spider-Man do, and how do we want to do the villains? Spider-Man has such an iconic roster of villains, and I think those are always the best starting places.

but, you know, the first question to solve of all time is, what does a Spider-Man do? And I should stress something you brought up. We had the license for the comic. That's what the set is. We were influenced by things like the movies, meaning we were well aware of what people might know because of the movies. Luckily, almost everything in the movies came from the comic. So we had access to almost everything. Absolutely right.

Yeah, I mean, basically we looked to some of the movies. as indicators of what from the comics do we think people might recognize because these are pulled from there, but certainly it's comics-first, storylines cannot any costumes and stuff, all influenced primarily by comics. Oh, real quickly, just because we get to talk

about Spider-Man. I just want to give a little explanation to the audience for those that might not be versed in Spider-Man. So the origin of Spider-Man goes back to the 1960s. The Marvel had just been essentially sort of reintroduced as Marvel. Their first big hit was

Fantastic Four. And Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, he was the artist, were looking to do something a little bit different, and the idea of Spider-Man was, instead of a hero that's this amazing hero where everything's going great,

what if it just was an ordinary normal person? Just a person who has trouble with things and isn't great getting dates and has trouble paying its rent and, you know, having a hero that was just very relatable and that was kind of the core of Spider-Man and it took

off. It was a hit from very early on and Spider-Man one of the reasons that we started with Spider-Man was because talking with Marvel, it is one of the most universally beloved characters in the Marvel universe. Kids like Spider-Man, adults like Spider-Man,

everybody like Spider-Man is just very universal. Spider-Man has had TV shows, he's had cartoons, he's had movies, It's just one of the Marvel characters that's had the most exposure of all the Marvel characters. And he's the coolest.

And he gets a flip-webs. Yeah, he gets a thwhip-web. So what do you think of Spider-Man does, Mark? Well, I mean, so, yeah, one of the challenges I know that happened early on is we couldn't make a set full of creatures with reach. Like, like, we only get so much reach. And I remember we're raising this question.

Does Spider-Man are flying? I mean, he doesn't fly in the natural sense, but he does swing in the air, and he clearly can swing over things. And that's one of the challenges you talk a lot about is there's a lot of Spider-Man and spider-people in this set, and how do you differentiate them?

How do you make all these spider people but have them feel not just the same thing again and again? Right. A good tool to, if you have a cast of characters that have similarities like, that is to find a connecting thread. So you can make cards where they all have that kind of mechanic or connecting theme. And then you could emphasize characters by what are the differences between these characters that have a connecting theme, but how do they differ from the norm and

how does that help represent who they are? Early on, I spent a lot of design walking around the office and saying, hey, what do you think Spider-Man does? What do you think Spider-Man does? The things I was trying to avoid in the Spider-Man set was, one, everything has reach. Yes, there was a version of the file where everything has reached, and it was very difficult to make flying matter, which is pretty rough, because sometimes you want them to fly temporarily, because that, you know, web-singing, it's like you're flying through the city. The other thing I really wanted to avoid was a centerpiece mechanic where I didn't want all the Spider-Man to, like, tap and stun stuff. I felt like that was an obvious answer is that spider people web people up. They tap and stun,

It feels very resonance, but I really wanted to avoid that at large because it's kind of a miserable thing for 30 cards in your set to do, and it's tricky color pie-wise as well in terms of green, because we wanted spiders to be green. Yeah, the thing to remember for the audience is we want to line things up, and we want things mechanically to be flavorful, but bad gameplay is bad gameplay. So, yes, stunning, representing, webbing somebody up made a lot of flavor sense, but, right, we just don't want to do that very much. It's not fun. You can't have a lot of stunning in the set. Yeah, exactly. We did not want to have a lot of stunning this sets. We did not want this centerpiece through line for what makes a Spider-Man or a Spider-person or whatever to be tapping and stunning or to be rich.

So then we look towards the Westling mechanic, which is where we ended up. Do you want me to explain the web-slinging mechanic? Yes, explain the web swinging mechanic. Okay. The web-slinging mechanic is an alternate cost mechanic. It goes on creatures and one instance, I believe. And it basically is an additional or an alternate cost to cast your spider people. You pay a little bit of a cheaper price and you have to return a tapped creature control

to its owner's hands in order to pay that cost. So I might have our Spider-Man web-slinger Karn, our common Spider-Man, who is two-dub or, you know, two-in-a-white. He's a 3-3, he's a legendary creature spider hero, and he has web-slinging for one white mana. So normally he's a 3-manor 3-3, but you could spend one mana and return a Taff creature control to your hand to cast him for only one mana. trying to be evocative of acrobatics. This is kind of a self-bound strategy. You're constantly moving up and down. That kind of agility felt very Spider-Man to me,

felt like you're slinging around. It's also like maybe you're saving people. You attack with a creature or you're tackling them through other means. You're picking them up. You're helping them get out of the fight for the meanwhile. Something Spider-Man is very good at is removing allies. enemies alike from the fight for a little bit. And then the gameplay gets a little more nuanced when you can reuse creatures with good

enters effects, which is quite fine. But in general, that was kind of our first solve of, what does a Spider-Man do? I think a self-bounce deck using something like the Westinging mechanic was an interesting way to express the agility, I guess, and acrobatics of Spider-Man. There was actually one thing that I think might have come first. We didn't talk about it. So let me jump in in real quick. So when we first had the discussion of Marvel,

one of the things we talked a lot about is where is the through line of Marvel? And one of the things we ended up doing very early on is the idea of hero and villain as a connector. But how early did we decide the Spider-Men were spiders? How early did that happen? I think it was extremely early.

I mean, maybe it was just my bias that I just always believed they were going to be spiders. But spiders are a type of, that matters in magic too, I thought, you know, I just think it made really resonant sense for them to be human spider hero. Well, that's what they were initially, right? Human spider hero, but then we decided to switch human and spider around. So it's spider human hero to match the order of Spider-Man, which I thought was also very cute and funny. Real quickly, just for the non-comic readers, there actually is a very strong defense for him being spider on two ways. Yes.

One is, A, he was bit by a spider, part of the spider DNA is in his bloodstream, so there's a little bit of he had spider DNA in him. But the second, there's a really big storyline that happened in the early 2000s where this idea of what they called the spider totem, where all the spider people were connected to this larger, like spider, like, interconnectivity. So the idea of having like spiderness in him was a big part of the comic. So even though we did this for a bunch of reasons, there is a very, the comics do some. support the spiderness in Spider-Man. And one of the interesting things in working in the Marvel universe and like the superhero

stuff, so every universe is beyond, we need to kind of establish what our creative consistency is. Like on magic planes, we have different definitions of what an enchantment creature is or whatever. So on superheroes, Marvel universe,

you know, we need to define what does it mean for a hero to have the spider type or another type? What are our internal consistency rules. We'll talk about artifact creatures later, I'm sure. And so in this set, to have an animal type like Spider-Man, it is

the DNA or the totemic connection. You'll see Green Goblin has the Goblin type. He's a human goblin because we're treating the Goblin serum as a goblin modification as a goblin expression of a goblin in this

superhero world. We also see a Scorpion card with a scorpion type because there's a part of his storyline. He does at some point have scorpion DNA. But DAC Doc Ock is not an octopus because there's no Octopus DNA in Doc Ock. Right.

Dr. Octopus, unfortunately not an octopus. So sorry. Rino unfortunately not a rhino. But rest assured viewers, we had many, many, many, many great hallway debates about every single one of these characters. For those people that aren't aware, one of the

through lines of a lot of Spider-Men's villains, says they're animal-themed. So there's a huge number of animal-themed Spider-Man villains. Yeah, kind of crazy. Like, chameleon, is he'll, you know, chameleons, obviously. He's not a cemeter, but... He's a shapeshifter, but...

He's a shapeshifter, which makes sense for what he does. Okay, so web-slinging... So, let's jump real quickly. When we moved from the small set to kind of the medium-sized set, one of the things that's important is we wanted to have a limited play. Yes.

One of the feedbacks we've gotten on some of the smaller sets was there wasn't limited. People really liked having limited. So let's talk a little bit about pick two. So I believe there was a team that had nothing to do with Spider-Man. There was a team before Spider-Man even happened. I know Chris Mooney was on it. Eric Lauer was on it. And the goal of the mini team was, how do we make drafting better?

Like, what can we do to drafting to make it better? And I think there were two inherent problems with drafting that got identified. one is it's a lot to get eight people because there's a lot of commitment to doing it and the second is it takes a long time drafting takes a long time and so the team said is it a way to draft take less people and be faster um and so a lot of a lot of the early work on pick two came from that team so talk that okay so you're now trying to make it work you know you have you have a little less cards than a normal size set how did you end up how did you get to pick two right you set the stage right you know chris mooney eric lower brian holly have done some previous

expiration in four player drafts and pick two being one of the things they liked they had a bunch of other different draft improvements but those are the ones to look into our story today fast forward i'm working on spider man suddenly we believe not suddenly but you know we want to make the push to make the set bigger we think it can fit the size um we want to move to you know a typical play booster away from a smaller booster that a smaller set was going to have. And so it's really kind of, we have this medium, smallish sets. We have a normal size play booster. And the question is, what should this draft be? Is this draft difference? We also have this, it's Spider-Man. It is a pretty global, known hero and fantasy. Do we think this also is good for all ages? And therefore,

do we want to make this more accessible in some way, a draft that is? isn't a harder draft, but an easier draft. And I kind of have, I believe, I remember having one month to figure out what this draft is going to be and surveying all my options. At some point, Eric Bauer also pitched to me two-person draft, which I did not end up liking for a variety of reasons, but talking to Chris and Ryan and other people. It became clear to me that four-player draft was a really good option. not only was it easier, faster, in some respects, not only did it really fit the smaller size

a little easier, but it also, to me, struck the court that a lot of people play Commander, commander is such a big format, so a lot of people are meeting in groups of four to play Magic the Gathering. Wouldn't it be nice if you could meet in a group of four and play a nice draft. So from all of those seeds, we thought, yeah, Spider-Man can make a very cool pick-two, four-player draft, and that's when we just started nailing away at that kind of concept. And Eric Bauer helped figure out how many more common and uncommonds we would need to make those ratios work.

And we just started executing and trying to figure out how to do this and how to execute with these characters and keep them flavorful. So another important thing for the audience. normally when you do a draft, what you want is you want your archetypes to be slightly larger than your drafters. So in an eight-person draft, we normally have 10 archetypes

so that the idea is people can pick archetypes and they're not fighting over the same archetype necessarily. I mean, sometimes they do. So one of the other values of doing a four-person draft was it allowed us to have less archetypes because the sets a little bit smaller. So there's five main archetypes.

There's some minor archetypes. And the five main ones are ally colors. So we already talked about the green-white archetype Because that is the web-slink. I mean, you won't say anything more about the green-white archetype with web-slinging? Yeah, I mean, primarily there's some web-slinging going on with this self-bounce deck. Some of it is you're playing some value-oriented, reusing your creatures' effects kind of self-bounce deck. Some of it is, oh, there might be a combo deck that you draft every once in a while

where you make a bunch of mana and then get your guys over and over again. But at the end of the day, green white is also about the spider people. There's a lot of different Spider-Man, that spider people that fit within the green-white stencil. And so you could also just play Spiders Matter in Green White, which is pretty great. That's the Greenlight archetype. It's awesome. It's very fun. Okay. So next, turn to some villains. We're talking black-red. So there's a new mechanic, but in some ways, it's kind of like, an old mechanic. Let's talk to mayhem.

Yeah, I mean, mayhem is a lot like madness. Madness was an older mechanic. It's a mechanic that was you cast cards when you discard them for their madness cost, usually cheaper. Madness has a lot of weird stuff going on. When you discard a card

to Madness and cast it, you actually exile it. You discard it to exile and then you cast it from exile. Also, you have to cast it at that very second. So there's a lot of tiny confusion and other stuff. Um, but we really liked the flavor of discarding cards for some of the green goblin or carnage or like some of the more maniacal and chaotically driven characters, um, or villains rather, uh, for Spider-Man. Um, and so we really like, I mean, I really love the idea of, uh, fixing up madness a little bit, getting a fun name. I really like Mayhem as a name. It, to me, kind of just like feels Saturday morning. cartoony, which is kind of where I like my comic space to be.

And by the way, it started as madness. When you guys first started, it was madness. And then you realized that you could clean it up a little bit. Yeah, we played with madness for a long time. And we ended up going back or wanting to change the name of madness for some reason. There was some sensitivity concerns and using madness on characters who might have mental health debilitations and they're kind of labeling that as madness. We wanted to shift it more to, this isn't about my psyche.

This is about I'm creating mayhem among the city. Okay, so mayhem shows up in black, red, and then what, on one blue card? Yeah, it's black and red, and then we put mayhem on chameleon and blue as well, because he's a villain, and it felt right. Okay, so let's get into blue black. So blue black, it's connive. So talk about... Talk about blue black and cannot. Blue black is where a lot of the rest of the Robes Gallery goes.

There's a lot of villains matter in blue black as well. Most of the cards that care about villains are going to be in blue black. A lot of Spider-Man's enemies. Obviously villains feel very black. But a lot of Spider-Man's foes are scientists. Like Dr. Octopus is a scientist. You know, so many of them have these different sciencey modifications. So blue made a lot of sense as a second color there.

We have this being a villain's graveyard deck. Knaive is a mechanic from streets of new Kepenna. It is whenever a creature connives, you draw a card, and then you discard a card, and if you discard it a non-land card, that creature gives a plus one plus one counter. So it does a great job. One, discarding cards for mayhem, and two, putting counters in your cream, features for another archetype we'll talk about later. But you also, it just feels really rich in like,

my villain is conniving. He is plotting. We liked that connection for villains in Marvel. It made a lot of sense. We also have some villains that have activated abilities from the graveyard, which work quite well canive as well. So the whole villain patch in blue-black is kind of this graveyard value thing.

The connive is just a really good glue that really feels really resonance, fits with mayhem stuff, and fits with modified stuff, which we'll get to. Well, speaking of modified stuff, let's get to White Blue. So White Blue's main theme is modified, a mechanic that we got from the Kamaguanian Dynasty is where it premiered. Yes, so White Blue is a modified deck. There isn't a ton of cards that actually say the word modified, but the does. deck is about suiting up your creatures, putting counters on them, equipping them, enchanting

them, and playing this kind of quick Voltron strategy. We like to modify it because, again, a lot of the characters among the Spider-Man lore ethos, like the origin of their powers comes from being modified in some way, whether scientifically or not. Am I having a serum? Am I getting this DNA thing? Maybe I'm stuck in a giant suit, maybe I'm like, I have this equipment, this power armor or something. Everyone's always modifying themselves for their powers.

There's a big science-y slant to that as well. Like usually it's, you know, the scientist that's modifying themselves like Dr. Octopus. So we like the idea of blue-whites being a deck that you want to do equip up and suit and change your creatures in a kind of scientifically flavorful way. And it works really well with connive. You're putting counters on stuff. That's very fun, too. Yeah, just remember, modified is basically a batching.

That if something that has an enchantment on it, is it equipped or has a plus and plus one counter on it. Right. Okay, and then the fifth archetype does not have a keyword tied to it, but it has a theme. So let's talk a little bit about red green. What's the red green theme? Right.

So the red green theme is casting spells with manner value four or greater. It's pretty less flavorful than the other themes, I'll say, but does a lot of good work bridging some of these archetypes. If you think about, we talked about mayhem and web slinging, both of those are cost reduction mechanics where you can cast larger spells for cheap. And so if you have, between them, you have red green, you can play red mayhem cards and green web slinging cards. That means red green will have a lot of access to. to larger-costed cards that they can cast for cheaper. Hence, you get rewards for casting spells with man of value four or greater.

And if you can't get all of those cost reduction cards, it still fuels very red-green to cast bigger spells in general. Like ramp up, play the long game, play mid-range, cast four, five, six drops to try to win your game. Flavorfully, red-green, it just kind of has a combination of other characters that felt very at home here. Like we have red blends, we have green miles, we have a red green graven and a red green rhino, just stuff that felt like they were at home, we could really place them in any of the other colored pairs very easily.

So red green is a little more scatter shop. There's a little bit more of a spider-versy feel compared to the green-white deck. Well, maybe they're all spider-versy, but I will say you can play red-green spiders in this deck. That's what I'm trying to get at. I love red, green spiders. It's pretty fun. So if you're drafting this, once again, the main five archetypes are the ally archetypes.

That's the stuff we just went through. There are things you can do with enemies. It's not that you can't do it, but the cleanest, simplest archetypes are in those five. That is true. Okay, so let's, I want something you brought up I want to dive into is, so one of the things you decided very early on

was you picked three spider people as kind of your focus. Do you want to talk a little bit about that and how we divvy up colors with them? Yeah, so Peter Parker is Spider-Man. We all know this. There are some other important Spider-people. Like, who's our top three characters?

It's kind of the idea. Number one, Peter Parker, Spider-Man. And then in second place, our other two protagonists, we really want to showcase Miles Morales' Spider-Man and Gwen Stacy's Ghost Spider from an alternate universe, basically. Uh, we liked the idea of focusing this set around those three characters, those three protagonists, rather than this single Peter Parker protagonist. I think kind of obviously we're going to lean more towards Peter Parker as he's the most well known.

He has the largest iconic story base, but we want to make sure we have Miles and Gwen, uh, kind of on the spotlight in this set as well. Yeah, so we'll let me say real quickly for the, for the Spider-Man background here. So, Spider-Men's existed since the 1960s. In the 2000s, they did something called the Ultimate Universe, where they would take characters and do the Ultimans X-Men and the Avengers, the Ultimates, and they did other versions of the characters. And they had a comic called The Ultimate Spider-Man, written by a guy named Brian Michael Bendis. And at one point, he decided to do something really radical, which is he killed Peter Parker.

Peter Parker died, which I was reading at the time. and I was like, what's going on here? Like, how did you kill the main character? But then he brought it in either Spider-Man, which was Miles Morales. Miles went on to be very, very popular. He's the protagonist of the animated films, and he's just become, and they ended up bringing him over,

like he's now in the main, what they call the 616, they brought him back in, and he's just very popular. Gwen, when Stacey, originally, the spoilers here, way back in the 60s or 70s, Gwen died. She was his first girlfriend. She died to the hands of the Green Goblin. and that was that until

she got brought back in a storyline where she was cloned or something which, that storyline was not the super popular but anyway, then they did, when they did the Spider-Verse, there was this alter

that they came up about 10 years ago with this other universe where instead of Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man, Gwen Stacy becomes Spider-Man. Peter Parker becomes a lizard in that world. And she became this breakthrough character.

I did a panel with Steve Sebalski, who's the editor-in-chief, And he mentioned that, like, she's the most popular female character right now. And so these are two other spider people that are just very, very popular character. So we didn't pick them out of a hat. These are, like, the three most popular spider people. And, of course, you know, they're in the Spider-Verst movies as well, which certainly helps their visibility.

For anyone thinking about getting to the comics, the Miles Morales comics, written by Cody Ziegler, are very good right now. It's just an awesome amount of comics. I would highly recommend. But yeah, I mean, those are our three spider people, and something else I wanted to do is kind of cleanly divide them into different core color identities. So what colors are these three spider people, Peter, Miles, and Gwen? How can I represent them at three color, which we've seen some of the mythics, and how can I represent them in monocolor? I want to divide them in monocolor common legend, so you see more of our three protagonists throughout the draft.

So you take Peter Parker. In our set, being Spider-Man is a core green-white thing to do. It is clear that white is the color of heroism. It's the color of responsibility with great power, et cetera. And green is a color of kind of the source of the spider power is from spider DNA. It is also this idea of this great strength, you know, great strength, great responsibility. It really feels green-white in its core concept. So our core spider stuff is green and white.

And then for Peter, it's white, it's green. And then Peter, he's an inventor. He's very clever. He makes all his science's specific stuff. He made his web fluid. His wet fluid. So blue being his third collar, we place our amazing Spider-Man, Peter Parker, and white, green, and blue.

And our common representation, I think, out of the three, Peter is most iconically a white hero because of his like, you know, obviously he's this mantra of the great power, great responsibility. It's incredibly white. He's constantly being selfless. Peter Parker, mono white into dance makes a ton of sense. Okay. What about Miles and Gwen? Miles is a tricky one because I, we have Miles in Naya here where he's green white as a spider man should be. And then what is his third color? Well, I think Miles feels really red. He's a lot more energy.

He has some additional powers where he has this electricity powers, which from a power suite standpoint makes him feel very red, which is great. So Naya kind of feels good for Miles. He is smart as well, but in the interest of, like, one thing that's important about the color pie is you can express characters in so many different ways. when you're making a set with Peter and Miles and you want them to be expressed in contrast with each other while Miles is smart,

he's not inventing his web fluid or doing all these science and things as much of Peter and we want to emphasize Peter's inventionness and use some unique concepts of Miles like his biolatricity, venom and lightning stuff and give him red to emphasize something that's different about Miles compared to Peter, Naya. Now, when he go to his monocolor version, we have them in green.

There's some argument that with his electricity stuff. He does feel very red. I do think Miles feels like he could have been monorred and mono green. But we put him in green because that's our second core spider color. And we feel Gwen is actually much more of a monorred character in contrast to both of the other characters. In Gwen's universe, she's a drummer. She's a lot more about freedom and moving around and trying to, you know, express herself very deeply. Again, literally a drummer in like a rock band called the Mary Jane's, which is hilarious.

And so Gwen, we takes the core red slot at common. Miles takes green being our second best core spider hero character. And as Gwen goes up to mythic, we express her in white and red and blue. in this respect we believe Gwen is very red we believe she is very heroic and therefore is whites and blue here is kind of an interesting

twist for Gwen it's not necessarily expressing her scientificness but to me it's a the blue here is expressing her she just moves through a lot of dimensions a lot and to me that

feels that transdimensional stuff feels very blue in a way Yeah, in this storyline, she has a special thing she wears on her wrist that allows her jump between dimensions and her character does a lot more dimension jumping than the other characters, and so we played into that. I do think in a vacuum, there's some argument for her being green, but red-white green was mild,

so obviously we're trying to keep them off each other. Yeah, and again, I think with all these characters, there's so many stories, you can express them in so many different ways. I think, I mean, I really like our expressions as well, ways that express what is unique about them in contrast to other of the spider people. So I really like how they shook out in general. So we're almost out of time, but one less thing that I know is important to you that I wanted to get to was there's an overall tone to this set that was really important to you.

Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I mean, I know we are doing multiple Marvel sets, and this is the Spider-Man Marvel set. Spider-Man is a little bit lighter in tone and I really want a sense of location and I really want this to feel like a comic book like we are from comics it was really really important to me that this set had a setting feel

of New York City on a street-level heroic feel and there's a lot of comments that display this there's a city pigeon that drops a hot dog which is hilarious to me there's a hot dog cart and there's a picture of Spider-Man waiting for a hot dog car which is insanely to me.

There's a subway train. There's a bagel of smear. There's all these wonderful lights, New York City set pieces to kind of bring the tone to a street level, make it a little lighter to feel more Spider-Man in contrast to all these other Marvel sets.

In addition to help you like comics, I really loved making some spells that were onomatopias. Like, we couldn't get away with making a Spider-Man set without doing a flip. Like, flip. is this kind of like it's just the word that you see as the action on comic book pages for spider-man

all the time where it's the sound effect of him shooting his webs yes the sound effect that's what's worth an onomatopoeia is a sound effect where like thwip we have kapau we have whoosh we have a few others that got cuts for reasons but i try to put as many as i could in the sets and waited for them to cut them down but i really love the onomatopoeia's and i really love achieving a lighter more New York street-level setting that was really delightful for it's delightful to me so anyway I can see my desk here so we are almost out of time so do you have any final thoughts on the making of Spider-Man

I think all the Spider-Man are perfect and beautiful all the spider people are perfect and beautiful I had a blast I mean I don't know what else to say other than this that's great please play it please enjoy it do not underestimate City Pigeon it is the strongest common. Well, thank you. Thank you, Corey. You heard it here, guys, the pigeon.

That's the... Okay, thank you so much for joining us, Corey. It was fun talking Spider-Man. But, as I can see my desk, that means I'm at work. So we all know what that means. It means instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic.

So I want to thank Corey for being with us. Thank you so much. Of course, thank you. And I'll see all you guys next time. Bye-bye.