Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #1331: Secrets of Strixhaven Set Design with Reggie Valk

Episode Date: April 17, 2026

In this podcast, I sit down with Reggie Valk, set design lead for Secrets of Strixhaven, to talk about the set's design.

I'm not pulling on my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for their drive to work at home edition. So often I use this to talk to people. And today we're going to talk Secrets of Strick-Saven with the set design lead, Reggie Malk. Hey Reggie. Hey, Mark. Happy to be here. Okay, so we're going to talk all sorts. So this set is really interesting in that what got handed off from Vision, like sets can change a little, they can change a lot. This set changed more. in set design, then I would say the average set. So we'll talk through that. We're going to start from the very beginning of set design

and walk all the way through to the end. So let's start with what was your first impression of what you got handed? So I feel like what I got handed from Vision, and to be clear, I actually took over set design. I think Ian Duke was the first lead of set design, and he had led for maybe two or three months. And then I was taking over.

moving on to bigger and better things that are down the pipeline. And he hadn't changed very much about the structure at all. So I felt like what I got handed off was something that was very honestly, Strixhaven School of Mages, too. It was a really general set of the schools were pretty, the theming was really lightly mechanical. They had themes, obviously. but no keywords and they were a little more open-ended to discover.

They still had some things that did end up making it all the way, like, you know, new mascot tokens and the like, some themes that made it all the way through, like X-spell matters and quandricks and the like. But prepared was everywhere in the set. Extra credit was kind of trying to be another thing that was across all colors. Extra credit was caring about casting your second spell. kind of doing something extra when it was your second spell.

But honestly, that was a lot of it. Like there really weren't very many mechanics to hook into. It was pretty open-ended, which is an exciting place to be. But for me, it was a little daunting also. And... Let me jump in real quick. So just to the audience understands, when we made original strict save, which was actually my set,

we were trying so hard to not be Ravnikov. One of the things that we did was we were trying to have a very different structural approach. So on purpose, rather than have each faction have its own mechanic, we did the thing where we had like three mechanics and then all everybody had all three mechanics but then executed on them differently. And so that was a very different structure. And when we envision design, we kept that structure. That's what we're talking about. Absolutely, which is why, yeah, like it was Strixavin 2. and prepare was in lieu of learn lesson,

which was serving that kind of main function because it is a little crazy to think about, but Strick-Saven School of Mages really had two mechanics. It had learn lesson and it had magecraft, and they were just everywhere. And the rest of the set was pretty simple. Ward actually was technically also a new mechanic. It ended up getting codified in Strick-Saven,

but I don't know that that one was the most exciting. There were also double-faced cards were on set too. Oh, that's true. The modal double-faced cards, yep. But I was here, and I worked on the original Stricks-Aven too, and I remember you talking about, yeah, why we were intentionally doing that structure. And it made sense, and I mean, it worked.

Strix-Aven was an amazing success, a set that I love. But I had kind of taken a step back. You know, we had already worked on a couple more faction sets. I don't remember. I think Tarkier Dragon Storm was probably nearing release or, you know, like very close to wrapping up design. And I felt like faction keywords were just kind of like a key piece of the puzzle in my mind. Obviously, we proved we don't need to use them. But I kind of actually remember, you know, I've chatted with Chris Mooney about this a lot of times, another designer, about, you know, what makes a faction set?

And, like, what are the key elements that, you know, define faction? And, you know, is it like they have their own token, their own watermark, their own mechanic, their own, you know, like, colors, identity, you know, all of the pieces of the puzzle. And it did sort of feel like something was missing. At the same time, I feel like our feedback from our most recent couple of drafts before I took over had been I was having fun, but it was a little meandering. It was pretty hard for me to find my lanes. I wasn't sure where I was going. And it felt like we probably needed to make some kind of a switch up, either like adding some more directionality with like more gold cards or just like kind of

better defining our themes somehow. And I'll admit, it wasn't really what I had in mind because I was stoked to get to be the set lead. You know, this is my first big project. And of course, it was exciting. But I just had this inkling, no pun intended, in my mind that the set would really benefit from just our tried and true kind of proven method for faction keywords. And similarly, what we had talked about also was flashback was actually a big impetus for this too. So flashback, one of Magic's greatest keywords.

I picked it number one on my best keywords of all time. Not a bad choice. You know, Lorhold was struggling a little bit. We were running back a very similar theme of leaves your graveyard, which is obviously awesome for archaeomancy, and still just like something we really wanted to hit on because it felt like it was just like so perfect for what the school was about.

But it was just challenging. It was tricky. We were struggling to make it work. And frankly, that was one of the places where I think we struggled in the original Strickshaven, too. lore hold especially in limited kind of missed the mark a little bit um real quick behind the scenes from the original trick saven we had flashback in original trick saven i've heard this yeah

it got taken out because we knew we were going to go back to in astrod in astrod i was fine with both of us having flashback because i thought they used them differently but r d as a whole just didn't want to do it so we pulled it out yeah i actually i had forgotten about that but yeah i remember hearing that story in the moment. And so, yeah, we were just like, oh, man, I think flashback would really help, like, because we know that we can make flashback archetypes successful. We've done that before. And hooking into leaves your graveyard is just like a little twist.

It would be nice. But we weren't sure where we wanted to deploy it if we wanted to, like, have flashback that was also in a very similar design space to prepare. Like, frankly, they had a lot of the same, you know, restrictions of, like, they were sort of face-up sorceries or instance on the battlefield sometimes. So we felt like, no, we probably only want a small slice of it. Is it just a lore hold thing? But then we felt a little weird that lore hold had a mechanic and none of the other colors did.

And so when I found out that I was taking over, you know, I had taken a couple of days, but then I, you know, sat down and talked to, you know, Ian and Brian. And it was just like, hey, I really think that the set would benefit from like a pretty big structural change. You know, this isn't something that I'm normally keen to do. Frankly, I think as a lead, I am pretty inclined to stay the course on a lot of things. But I don't know. I just had this feeling. And we ended up cloning the file.

We ended up like making a second copy. And we're like, all right, Reggie, we'll do your experiment. You know, Ian actually stayed on and like let it for the Xeroy. extra month and we copied it over. We like sketched out what these mechanics looked like. Not all of them ended up making it all the way through. I actually forget what we had had, but increment was not the first uh, quondrix mechanic. Uh, that ended up actually also being a Chris Mooney solved down the line. But we ended up, yeah, trying it out, copied that file over, and people were really liking it from the jump. They were, you know, excited and happy to have the rails.

And I felt pretty strongly that, you know, Strick-Saven just had its own identity already. Like, you know, I understood why we had done it the first time, but I felt good that this isn't Ravnika. They won't think it's Ravnika. This is its own thing. Prepare is still doing so much cool lifting. It's still instance and sorceries matter. And just kind of ran with it. Yeah, something we should just mention to the audience.

I always talk about in a design. there's what I call the greedy theme, that there's a theme that just makes your set, you have to build the set around it. Yeah, yeah. And in this set, the greedy theme is instance and sorceries. That you just can't,

you just can't make instant sorcerers matter without really dedicating a lot of space and energy to making it matter. That's the truth. And so, you know, prepare was doing a lot of that lifting. And we definitely tried to make sure that the other themes at least played well

or were well supported with instance and sorcery. in their kind of core limited aspects. And I'm pretty happy with where it landed. And then so I still don't, it looks a little different from where vision started, but I still look at the file as it's finished now. And there are a lot of cards that like made it unchanged from vision still, which I think is delightful.

Yeah, another thing to be aware of, and we can walk through the mechanics here is, so we had Magecraft, Vision design headed off Magecraft. Yeah. But a lot of our magecraft had like little subcategories in the cards. So because like both Repartee and Opus, I think were kind of rifts of what we were doing with Magecraft. Very much so, actually, yeah.

So I want to walk through, we're going to walk through each mechanic and you can talk about it. So let's start with Repartee. We'll start with several trouble. Yeah. Like you said, it's like a little bit of a generalized magecraft in a sense. So whenever you cast an instant or sorcery that targets a creature, do something. And we already did have this theme in the set pre like, you know, repartee being named in like a light dosage. We ended up adding like a little more once we decided that we were going to

give the keywords names. And yeah, I don't know. It just felt like a really awesome white, black thing to do. It was like the mixture of heroic in crimes and really all what Silver Quill is about, you know, do you use your words to uplift others or put others down? And just kind of felt really fun. We had, you know, seen in real world how crimes had played in Outlaws of Thunder Junction not long ago and felt like we had some learnings about how we could maybe make some stronger cards, how we could develop it easier. Heroic is one of my favorite, you know, mechanics and decks.

And so it was just pretty exciting and fun to run with. and obviously fit the theme of instance and sorceries played really well too with prepared and flashback. But a lot of the prepared spells, especially at low rarities, ended up wanting to be kind of like simple combat tricky abilities or, you know, like sorceries that like had team pump sort of like, you know, approximating things like, you know, battle rattle shaman and, you know, just like good limited designs. And it ended up being a really nice way to then kind of reward those style of designs that we already wanted to make a lot of, in a fun, flavorful, silver quill way.

Yeah, the other thing to note is, because Heroic was my mechanic from way back when, one of the lessons of Heroic is, because you have to target the creature that cares, like heroic means if you target me, something happens, and that that, it just became very hard to make happen, and that Repartite is saying, well, you just got to target something. You don't have to target me, just something.

Yep. Okay, yeah. I was just going to say, I really enjoy, too. One of the things that might have been what you had handed off, but I always remember Yanni, who was the lead of Strict Savant School of Mages, talking about when I was on the team, was, you know, a real goal to try to, you know,

add depth to the limited format. We've learned this lesson when we're doing a set with only five archetypes, that we really want to make sure that there is depth and replayability there and try to, you know, seed in what we hope are like, kind of two specific archetypes for a given color. And I really like how repartee played in that way of we were really hoping, and we'll see what happens, that you could build a really kind of lean, aggressive, very heroic silver quill deck

or a kind of big, mid-rangee controlling crime silver quill deck. And so I really liked what it did there, too. Yeah, that was something in original strict save. I mean, Yanni, by the way, was on the vision design. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the idea of each of the schools having two sort of archetypes, so there's different ways to play them. Yeah, that was something we built in last time.

Okay, can we move on to Frasmari? Let's do it. Okay, so Opus was kind of similar to Reparte, right? Yeah, a little bit. You know, we were kind of tongue-in-cheek calling it Mega Magecraft when it was in the set from early handoff. Because in some ways, it's what it was. You know, whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell,

you always do something. You always get, you know, a little prowessy sort of a treat. And then if you spent five or more manna to cast that spell, you do something bombastic, which felt very in line with Prismari who are trying to, you know, steal the show, make the biggest, most crazy displays. We also liked that it incentivized playing a bit of a different game from Isit, where Is It was often all about, you know, goblin electromagncer, wee dragonauts, you know, spam lots of instance and sorceries, which is, is obviously an awesome way to play. But we wanted something different.

And so getting you to play and pay, you know, huge mana costs and do just like the biggest, most over-the-top thing ended up being just something that we really enjoyed. And was obviously a big part of what Prismari was doing in the original Strick-Saven, too. Yeah, the big challenge was Prismari was, we wanted to not be Ravnika, but blue and red was about incidents and sorceries in Ravnika. Yeah, it's a struggle.

That's why we went big spells. That's how we ended up with big spells, because the playbiter you're talking about it's like, that was, is it? So we wanted to have something different. Exactly. But yeah, you know, this was pretty much exactly the mechanic that was from vision and early set that we just ended up, you know, codifying again. Because we felt like it would add some nice hooks. You know, the biggest thing here was just open discussion about spend five or more mana or a spell with,

manna value five were greater, you know, ended up being a lot of pros and cons, force of will being on the mystical archives, like, oh, does, you should force of will trigger your opus? But we ended up landing here, and I'm actually really happy that we did. It ended up being a pretty nice hook with, you know, some of the mystical archive cards still. Like, I think burst lightning is like a really awesome glue piece of, you know, great one-mana spell that perfectly kicks and ends up costing five mana and, you know, is fundamental to triggering your opus abilities. There are a lot of flashback costs that end up, you know, being cheap to cast, but have five mana or more flashback costs. So, you know, the mana value of that spell is still low,

but you're spending more mana. And so there's good through lines in red. A lot of the prepared spells ended up wanting to cost, you know, a lot of mana because they were pretty onboardy. And so it made just five manna the sweet spot. And I'm pretty excited. X-spells matter, too, ended up playing in nicely from Quondrix. So lots of ways to have big mana sinks. Okay, let's move on to Witherbloom. Where did Infusion come from?

You know, infusion is a really simple one, honestly. If you gained life this turn, reward. You know, we do life gain themes all the time. We know that they're really popular. popular and fun. Obviously, infusion Witherbloom is a fun twist on it because we do a lot of life gain themes, but so often, they're white

black or they're white green. Doing it in black green is a little different and cool. And yeah, you know, something that we always have to talk about when we are doing a life gain theme and a set is just figuring out how we want to

reward the life gain. You know, do you want all of these a Johnny's pride mate style car, that are, you know, whenever you gain life, do something? Do you want binary checks of if you gained life this turn, do something? Do you want to care about how much life you gained? Me changing, like, you know, gaining three or more life in a turn to like hit a threshold and play with like food or something like that. And so infusion just kind of ended up being the easy solution for, well, we know that this is what Wither Bloom is about. We know that we're rewarding this in a lot of different ways.

just kind of a nice way to, you know, say, all right, here is how Witherbloom is caring about life gain. And now we get to put this line of text on all the cards and, you know, just kind of like streamline how we wanted to think about it from the set design perspective. Yeah, so just to add a little story of my own, we just had a, I just did a little draft with Secrets of Tricksaving. We got the cards in early, so we did a little draft. And there's a card in the set called Poisoners Apprentice. Yeah. Who B, 2, 2, it's an orc warlock. It has infusion.

It says, when this creature enters, target creature, opponent control gets minus 4 minus 4 until end up turn if you gain life this turn. And I drafted a couple of them. And I really was like, am I supposed to play this? So I ended up putting them in my deck. And it was awesome. Yeah. Definitely play your point.

If you're playing Witherbloom, definitely play your Poisoner's apprentice. Because it was, it's really fun if it just made me figure out like, okay, got to gain the life. How do I do that? Because I'm not going to play this until I gain the life. but there were a lot of ways to do that. It was super fun. This card became an MVP for me,

but I wasn't even sure it was going to go on the deck. No, that's actually really funny. This is a card that is kind of near and dear to me. I like it because I agree, you know, it sort of ends up being a bit of a teaching moment, especially with our new pest tokens that are, instead of dies, gain one life, their attack gain one life.

And so I love cards like this that pretty loudly tell you, You know what, actually? Sometimes you're supposed to play your creature post-combat. You know, that's actually a good time to place things. You know, make your attacks first and then see what your opponents do. And this card is really teaching you, yeah, attack with your pests and then play me and figure out how to make it work. We also ended up getting it templated so that it works really nicely with like ETB, game one life effects with how it's triggered. But this card actually, I modeled it after vengeful rebel, which is a pretty similar design with revolt from Aether Revolta Aptly. It's a three-manna, three-two with revolt when it enters if a permanent left the battlefield under your controlless turn.

Target creature and opponent controls gets minus three-minus three until end of turn, and it's a three-mane three-two. This is just a bizarre thing, but Aether Revolt, Kaladesh Limited is my favorite limited format. Just I ended up drafting so much of it on Magic Online, and in PTQs, it was just a delight. And something tickled me about getting to like put in a card that, you know, was one of my MVPs from Ather Revolte Limited into here, even though it's, you know, a different theme and a slightly different function. I had actually just sent a message to Ben Hayes the other day about, hey, this card's here. Aether Revolt Limited will never die, who was, you know, the lead of that set. Yeah, before we move on, I just want to say, since I dropped this set, if you, there's a card called Bogwater Lumerette, black, green, 2-2. It's a spirit frog.

It says, when none of this creature or another creature your control enters, you gain one life. Oh, my goodness, take this card if you're ever playing Wither Blune. This card was the last card we talked about, it was a great combo, but, um, it's a, Anyway, just little tips. And it's really cute, Mark. You need to take it because it's really cute. It's really cute and amazingly good. So, anyway, some little tips for all the people in Weatherblun at releases and such.

Okay. So let's move on to Lorhold. Well, we talked about a little bit, but let's just talk a little bit about once you decided that flashback was just Lorholt, what did you do with that? Yeah. I mean, Lorholt admittedly does get to cheat a little bit because, you know, their theme is really this. whenever one or more cards leave your graveyard, dot, dot, dot. And that was kind of the running off point. There was a different world where maybe we gave that inability word, frankly.

But instead, flashback was their word because it was so good, you know, the history, the flashback, and that line of text is just unkeyworded on a handful of cards. And so, yeah, you know, you're just trying to fill your graveyard a lot, trying to get things to leave slowly surely. One technology piece that we actually deployed here too that I appreciate a little bit of a color pie experiment here is the mill bottling that we have. So bottling is what we normally do with exile the top card

of your library. You may play at this turn until the end of your next turn named after Elkin bottle. But here, there's a little bit of bottling. like normal, but we're like, oh, we really want to care about the graveyard. And so there are a handful of cards, like I'm looking at tablet of discovery that has, when it enters, mill a card, you may play that card this turn. And so not something we normally want red doing. We don't want them to mill lots of cards, but just this once, we're allowed to, you know, do a little bit of

mill because it's, you know, you're approximating exiling from, you know, casting it once a turn. but it ended up kind of being another nice tool that greases the wheels and lets cards leave your graveyard. And I think that the theme is working pretty nicely. Oh, definitely. Okay, let's move on to Quondrix and increment. Quondrix, this is my favorite. I ended up, I felt really good, actually. I kept saying in interviews that I was Quondrix, and then I just went to Pax East and we have a magic mirror quiz that I think might be at Vegas, too, of, you know, filling out the quiz and figuring out who your colleges and during some downtime, I filled it out. And I was Quondrix. So I'm glad I wasn't

leading people astray. Yeah, increment. So whenever you cast a spell, any spell, if the amount of mana you spent is greater than this creature's power or toughness, put a plus one plus one counter on this creature. So, yeah, we were struggling a little bit with figuring out what we wanted from a Quondrix mechanic. You know, Quondrix was still doing a lot of things with plus one plus one counters because they tied in nicely with their fractals. And there was an ex spell matters theme that was in from vision that we thought was really charming and we wanted to preserve. But we ended up figuring out as we played more and more that it just worked better in a light dose as just like something

fun that you could draft, but wasn't the primary strategy. But we still wanted to like hook into that and support it. And so we had tried a couple of different things, but I remember I was talking to Chris Mooney about this of trying to figure out, you know, what the faction keyword could look like. And they had pitched an evolve riff, which, you know, evolve, which is a similar mechanic. It's when a creature enters. If it was bigger than the current creature, you put a plus one plus one counter on it. I think evolved is an all-timer. I think it's a really fun mechanic that people remember well. Honestly, a little surprising that we haven't returned to it. I think just we haven't found the exact right spot. We will. My exactly. I agree. It's like certainly a win, not if.

But we just ended up thinking, oh, what if we could take a little bit of a spin on that? Because we know that there's something awesome about that formula. And we ended up tinkering with it and found this, which yeah, again, works really nicely with a lot of your ex spells, just like big mana spells that Prismari ends up like wanting you to play. Quondrix is usually pretty ramp heavy, and so it definitely rewards you for just going bigger and bigger. And there's a little bit of that mathy sequential nature that, you know, where we were trying to see it in too of we want you to feel clever and smart

about, you know, really like planning your plays and lining them up perfectly. You guys want to point out before we move off the factions, it's interesting to note that in each case, the themes you're talking about, were there. Not all of them had a keyword, but, but, um, like Kwan Dikler was messing around with expel space and stuff. And this, this plays in that space really fun. Um, so it's interesting to note how even though we handed off a file that was structurally different, the actual, what the schools were up to didn't change all that much as far as structurally. I agree. That's why when I look at this, you know, obviously superficially things changed,

but I still see a lot of what was handed off, which is the point. That was the vision, and I think I saw it. Okay, so next we're going to talk about prepared. How easy or hard was it to make prepared spells? You know, I would say pretty easy, which was great because I think we really like it, and I wouldn't be at all surprised

if it's something that we see more of in the future. So prepared, Obviously, creatures enter prepared or become prepared otherwise. While it's prepared, you may cast a copy of its spell, doing so unprepared it. And then kind of like adventures or omens, they've got their spell in the other half of their text box. And so, you know, I'm like looking at studious first year that prepares rampant growth, an iconic magic card. But, you know, the card is actually kind of approximating you know, like Borderland Ranger, you know, three mana enter, get a land and put it on to the battlefield,

like wood elves or something like that. And, you know, I just felt like it was just, I think we knew that it was just going to be awesome from the jump. It was just so epic and awesome to get to write powerful existing spells. It was so in line with what Strickshaven was all about, too, with the mystical archive and, you know, hearkening back to magic's history and learning from the greatest instance in sorceries. And, yeah, I would say it overall just ended up being pretty fun. You know, we learned a lot of things that I've already sort of seen

real world sentiment agree with of, you know, it's really awesome to get to use existing magic spells. I think that elevates the mechanic even further. And so we certainly tried to do that wherever possible, but at low rarities and on a couple of cool rairs, We explored the design space and made new stuff where it made sense. And similarly, it's really easy to make cards that just enter prepared. They're the most simple to play with and to just kind of understand,

but it's really awesome and aspirational to get to have ways to re-prepure yourself and get to cast your spell again and again. And I think players are agreeing with that. And so that was sometimes the most challenging part of development was, I think this card would be awesome if it could reprepare itself. How? and figuring out what quest made sense, especially when you were trying to solve that for,

how can I cast ancestral recall over and over again or something like that. Okay, we have two more mechanics to hit, and then we're going to wrap up for today. All right. So let's talk paradigm. This is another sort of old mechanic redone. Well, you talk to me about epic, Mark.

What? Talk to me about epic. Well, Epic was made by Brian Tinsman. I think he was trying to figure out how to make, like, legendary spells with his original inspiration. And so he came up with this idea of a cycle. I think it was a rare cycle at the time. But it was like, how do I make a spell that's so epic?

Well, it happens every turn. Except he was worried that that was too good. So he put a small, tiny drawback on it. Just a little. Which is, you can't play spells for the rest of the game. Yeah. you know something about that cycle like has endured even though it you know isn't a super successful mechanic i think you have rated it among the lowest uh you know it still exists a little harsh

a little harsh but you know like enduring ideal is like such an iconic magic card like people still play that and try to play it and want to love it uh because it just does something so incredible And so we had just been thinking about ways to add a little more juge to the set. We were trying to find some cool things and especially cool instance and sorceries. And we were really trying to explore how instance and sorceries could affect the game in a variety of different ways. We had some build around instance and sorceries. We had some rate cards that were removal spells or card draw. We had some that were kind of creature token based and filling in the creature curve.

but we're like, oh, what if we could find something that was awesome and had this, you know, enchantment like effect turn over turn? And we're like, oh, I guess that's kind of like epic. And we just tried to figure out, could we make epic that didn't have that drawback? What would that have to look like? And we ended up playtesting with it. And it turned out we could. And so we were pretty excited.

Okay, so the last mechanic is another returning, or this is a returning mechanic. And if you had had me guess, I like name what return mechanic is coming back. I don't know if I would have guessed this one, which is converge. How did you, how did converge come back? You know, the archaics are these crazy multi-armed avatars of like inscrutable magic and colorless, crazy crazy monsters. They are some of the main antagonists of the set, especially the dawning archaic, who you see in a bunch of art pieces and is pretty cool. we knew that we wanted to have a little more of a focus on these archaics.

And at the same time, when I tell you, think of a massive, colorless, inscrutable monster with, you know, magic you can't fathom. It sounds a lot like Eldrazi.

They don't look like Eldrazi very much, but, you know, like mechanical overlap was definitely there. And so we were trying to find ways to make the archaics feel distinctive from other things that we've done because they are cool and awesome. their own right. And we were also trying to, you know, still think about how can we add depth and

replayability to the limited format? And so one of the ways that we do that from times to time and faction sets especially are these like five color archetypes of, you know, here's something extra you can do on your, you know, 10th draft. And it just kind of ended up being a through line of, we had all of these colorless creatures that we wanted to include. And we're like, oh, Well, what if instead of them being, you know, colorless, colorless, they were converge instead, and they were our five color archetype. And then they're so antithetical to Eldrazi. El Drazi care about colorless and stuff. And these archaics care about all the colors. And we had a gotten buy in that we could make a couple of archaics that were tuberid too, which ended up into the final file and looked pretty sick. That was actually an original idea from Annie from Vision too, which. we ended up coming back on after they had been out of the file for a little while. And so it just ended up working out really nicely, the kind of two things dovetailed into one and Converge gave archaics a life of their own and gave us another archetype that we really liked.

Well, anyway, we're going to wrap up here. But I want to say that it all came together really cool. I mean, I've been getting a lot of feedback from the audience. Everyone's really, really excited. I'm really, really excited, Mark. I mean, yeah, I've been hearing and seeing the feedback, too, and it's overwhelming. So I can't wait to play. Well, anyway, thanks for joining us today, Reggie.

It was fun to have you on talking about your first lead. Yeah, absolutely. I can't wait to be back. So, everybody, I'm now at my desk. So we all know what that means means to the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. So I'll see you guys all next time. Bye-bye.