Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #556: Video with Richard and Peter

Episode Date: July 20, 2018

For the 25th Anniversary Grand Prix, I recorded a video with Richard Garfield and Peter Adkison. This podcast is all about the day I spent shooting that video. I also talk quite a bit about the early days of Magic.

I'm Poggle My Driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for the drive to work. Okay, so today I'm going to talk about two people that are the most responsible about magic getting created. So I'm talking of course about Richard Garfield, the creator of magic, and Peter Acheson, who founded, or one of the people that founded Wizards of the Coast. So the reason I bring this up is last week, so there are a bunch of Grand Prix's going on this summer that we are calling Birthday Grand Prix's because we are celebrating the 25th anniversary of Magic. And because the three of us cannot go to all the Grand Prix's, we recorded a video. In fact, we recorded a video with us together, and that's individually.

I'm going to talk about the making of the video as well. But first, I want to do a little prep to talk a little bit about Peter and Richard. But I was inspired because of the chance. I've seen Richard recently, obviously. He worked on Dominaria. But Peter and I haven't seen each other in, I don't know, 10 plus years.

So I want to talk a little bit about sort of Richard and Peter, and then we'll talk about seeing them again. Okay, so back in 19, I think it was 91, Peter Atkinson, so Peter was working at Boeing, but Peter was a gamer, loved gaming, in particular, really, really loved role-playing games. And so Peter had a dream. Peter wanted to start a game company.

So along with four other people, they started Wizards of the Coast. So when Wizards of the Coast started, it was a little teeny tiny game company. So along with four other people, they started Wizards of the Coast. So when Wizards of the Coast started, it was a little teeny tiny game company. Now, I'm going to, I'm mostly hitting on Peter and Richard today. So if you want to know more about Wizards of the Coast, I did a whole podcast on Wizards of the Coast. So you can go listen to that. But anyway, so Peter founded the company. At the time, Peter was still working at Boeing. It was kind of, I mean, originally the company was more almost a hobby, something they did on their own. And Peter's dream, I think, was to make supplements for role-playing games

because he really loved role-playing games. supplements for role-playing games because he really loved role-playing games. Um, and so the big first thing they did, um, was they made, uh, what was it called? Um, it was like a planar guide. What they did is they made something that the whole idea was that you could apply it to any video game. Um, what's it called? There's actually a magic card that's named after the product. It was called Planar Green Enchantment from Early Magic. Maybe it'll come to me. But anyway, Peter's early designs really were to make this company that did role-playing games. And mostly did kind of supplemental role-playing stuff. I mean, the goal wasn't necessarily

for it to become as big as it did. I mean, I think the idea was that it was something in which they would make games. But really early on, it was more about role-playing games. And then, obviously, Richard Garfield,

Richard Garfield and Mike Davis come to pitch Peter RoboRally. For those who don't know, RoboRally is a game that Wizards put out many years ago about your robots racing on a factory floor. And the shtick of it is that you have to program their moves ahead of time. So then if something goes wrong, you know, it sort of doesn't quite go what you mean for it to do. The robots have lasers which can hit each other

and on the factory floor there's different things that can go on and all sorts of craziness can happen. And the fact that they came to pitch to Peter meant that they were literally looking at anybody of any game company company because at the time

Wizard of the Coast was a teeny tiny game company and what happened was when they pitched this idea Peter's response to them was oh this is a great game this looks like really fun but I can't make this the components like he was a little tiny game

company and just you know RoboRally had a board and had pieces and had a box and just had a lot of components that Peter didn't have the means to make. Because he was such a small company, just what they call the cost of goods was too high. Meaning when you make a game, you physically have to make the game and then you recoup it when you sell it. But you have to make it before you sell it. And so if the game is expensive to make, you know, it's just the amount of money it costs to make the game is something that you, it sort of keeps you from being able to make it because you don't have enough money.

Now with stuff like Kickstarter, there's means now to kind of make stuff like that happen, where you can get people to pay up front before you make it. But back in the day, that just wasn't the case. You had to make it first. And so it just was too expensive of a product to make to be able to put it out. Um, and so anyway, what happened to that meeting is Peter, um, says to Richard, um, look, here's what I can make. I have access to a printer. Turns out, Carta Monday in Belgium, who was the one that was printing his role-playing stuff. And he goes, and I know that they are able to print cards.

So, like, we can print on paper. And we can print on cards. So, if you have some game that can be played with cards, you know, I have some leads on some artists that are local to the area. I have access to a printer that can print paper or cards, but that's what I can do, you know. And what he said is what really we were looking for, he said, was a game you could play in between role-playing sessions. A fast, portable, quick little game that was easy to produce. The cost of goods were low. And then Richard said, oh, okay, I kind of have an idea.

Now, the interesting thing here, by the way, is I often tell this story, but one of the things is I only know the pieces of the story that I know. So, like, one of the neat things about when we get together, like, we...

So, let me flash forward a little bit. So we're doing these happy birthday Grand Prixs. And so I get contacted by Liz, who's one of our producers up in brand. And Liz says, hey, we're going to shoot the video with you and Richard and Peter. And I said, oh, sounds awesome. Like I said, I'd seen Richard's somewhat recently.

I had not seen Peter in quite a while. But it sounded like fun. And the idea basically was we wanted to shoot some videos so we could say, hey, happy birthday, and have a little bit of content that we could show a couple different places. So what had happened was Wizards had just taken over a new section.

We keep growing the building. So there's one final section that we really didn't have control of that the company had moved out. So we bought it or rented it. And so we were shooting this new section and part of that I actually hadn't really been in. And anyway, so my call time, I think my call time was at noon, but I came a little bit early just because I, the meeting I was going to have fell through and like I said I hadn't seen Peter in forever

and Richard, I like seeing Richard not that I hadn't seen him so I actually am the first one down there so one of the things that happens whenever I shoot on video is they ask me to bring a lot of wardrobe choices so for me that means I bring a whole bunch of matching t-shirts and a whole bunch of I bring a whole bunch of matching t-shirts

and a whole bunch of colorful flannels that match the t-shirts. And then it's a matter of mixing and matching. A lot of times I'm trying to wear something that's relevant. Usually what we try to do is like, do I have a shirt that's relevant to the thing at hand? Sometimes I'm talking about a particular set. Maybe if I happen to have a shirt for that set. Or I have a bunch of generic

shirts. I have some shirts that have magic logos and some shirts that have the Planeswalker symbol. I have shirts that have just different, I mean, my magic collection of t-shirts is pretty extensive. So anyway, this was old school 25th anniversary, so I bought a lot of old t-shirts in. The problem was most of the really old t-shirts, we were talking like the early, early days, are black or they're white. I don't think we, I think the earliest colored t-shirt I got might be like Tempest or something. That came out in 97,

I think. So in the early, early years, the first couple of years, most of the t-shirts were black. There was a few that were white. Like the original Ice Age shirt and the original pre-release Ice Age shirt were both in white. And then the original t-shirts that came on Magic were black. So we went back and forth. And they actually ended up picking up a shirt that was somewhat black, which was my Mirage t-shirt from Mirage. It had a picture on it. My Mirage t-shirt from Mirage.

It had a picture on it. And I think I wore my purple. I have a purple. I have a purple. What's the word I want? Flannel. I have a purple flannel that definitely is something that's quite colorful. So I'm just realizing now that I need to get gas. So I don't do this often,

but I think today I'm getting gas. So one of the things, for those that think I'm honest to God in the studio and making all this up, which is actually, there's a theory that is true. It's not. But normally I try not to get gas, but I realized it was a holiday weekend and I wasn't thinking about the fact that I wasn't thinking like five days ahead. So anyway, I'm going to get gas, and hopefully I will continue my podcast while I get gas, and all shall be well. We shall see.

Normally, I'm just driving, which I can do pretty much by rote, but gas requires a little more energy. So we'll see. I'll pump some gas. I think this is the third time I've pumped gas, for those keeping track of trivia. I think I've done gas twice before on the show. I don't do it very often. Like, this is my 500 something show,

and it's the third time I've done gas. So anyway, we're stopping to get some gas. And we'll continue on. So I ended up choosing to get, or I didn't choose. Liz chose my Mirage shirt and my purple flannel. Oh, the other thing that was funny for the day was actually I was there to do two different things. One was to shoot a video.

The other was a project that I'll talk about in a second. But actually, I had a full day of things to do. Anyway, so I get there first. I either pick out my clothes, I get dressed, and then Peter shows up. Peter shows up shortly after. And I have not seen Peter in ages. So Peter, so a little story here about magic.

Let's go back to the magic story. So the funny thing is we are, one of the things we're doing is we're shooting individual, like each of us goes in individually and shoot. They ask us questions. We say happy birthday and stuff. And then the three of us are going to shoot. So what happens is I think by the time we're ready to shoot,

Richard shows up last but he ends up getting shot first because he has to lead the earliest. So we shoot Richard's shoots, then we shoot all of us together so that Richard can go. Then we had a break for lunch in which I had a presentation to do

and then we shot Peter and then we shot me. Because not only did I have to do my video but there's one other thing I'll talk about at the end that I had to do. But anyway, some of the story I want to tell you today, there's actually some stuff I did not know until doing the

interview with Peter and Richard. Every time I listen to them tell the story of magic's creation, I learn new facts that I didn't know. So anyways, I'm going to add in some extra facts that you haven't heard yet, at least for me me because I did not know them until we were doing

this this the interview stuff okay what am I going to say okay so what happens is Peter says to Richard Okay. What am I going to say? Okay, so what happens is Peter says to Richard, okay, we need a game.

The only thing I can make is a game in which you use cards. So Richard goes back, and then Richard has what he thinks is kind of the most, the biggest idea that he has had. You know, the biggest idea, like it's sort of like, he talks about it's his, you know, brain explosion moment,

where he came up with the idea of making a game that was bigger than the box. Meaning that the game, that each person wasn't using the same components in the game. And Richard wasn't even sure that it was possible. What he said is, like, if you said we're going to play chess, but people can

bring their own pieces, well, why wouldn't you just bring all, you know, one king and all the rest queens? Like, why, what makes a fun game? How can you make a game in which people can build their own game, but the game isn't inherently just broken? And that one of the challenges of magic was trying to figure out how to make that

work, how to have that be possible, you know. And, you know, one of the things that he was saying is that he didn't even know when he had pitched the idea to Peter whether or not what he was pitching was something that could work. But Peter was excited by the idea, and so Richard went off. So it turns out that Richard had made a game, I think he was calling it Five Colors. Richard had a game that was a fantasy-based game that kind of had the colors attached. It was a different game, and when Richard was trying to make this work, he realized that the colors might be part of the answer to his thing, that why can't you play all the best cards? Maybe all the best cards can't go in the same deck.

And so Richard took this other game, the five-color game, and this sort of trading card game, which they were separate entities. The five-card game was a card game, I believe, but not a trading card game. It had a locked amount of things. It was a traditional card game.

And he sort of took those and combined them to make something that was, you know, to make something that was a combination thereof. And anyway, the first game he played, I talked about this with a guy named Barry Reich, or Bit, as Richard used to call him. Richard used to call him. And so he tried out the game, and Richard was kind of pleasantly surprised that it actually worked. It seemed to... So he went back to Peter,

and he showed them sort of the first prototype. You know, this is like pre-alpha. You know, this is the early... And he showed him... I think the story they were saying is it was in a garage. So what happened was Peter's family at the time, I think, lived in Oregon, in Portland. And so he was working in,

he was at the University of Philadelphia, I believe at the time. So he was living in Pennsylvania, but he would come out from time to time and see his family. And when he came out, I think what happened is Peter drove down to Portland

to see Richard, I think is what happened here. But anyway, the story they tell him, this is a new story, I had not known the story, is that they were in a parking lot and that Richard was showing off his, Richard was showing off his game

and this was the first time that Peter had seen it and that Peter was instantly excited by it. Like once Peter got the grasp of what Richard was saying, Peter got it, and he was really excited. And the story that Peter tells is he remembers screaming and running around. He was screaming in this parking lot because he really, like, when he had started the game company, like, he had some ideas for some role-playing game supplements and stuff.

But, you know, one of his dreams was to really be a player in games and do things that were revolutionary. And so Peter saw this and said, oh, this is something exciting. And the thing that also excited Peter was, because Richard

had fallen on the constraints that Peter had laid down, look, this was a card game that Peter knew he could print. So anyway, Peter decides they're going to make magic, and they're very excited. Now remember at this point, this is still a teeny tiny company

working out of Peter's basement. Peter's still working at Boeing. You know, and so they were definitely doing something that was pretty thrilling. But the other big thing that people, I've not talked a lot about this, but when you listen to Peter and Richard, especially Peter tell the stories, is one of the big problems was they kind of knew they had this really cool idea,

but they still had to sell it. They had to make it. And so basically what happens is they had to first raise some money. And so Peter, and when I talk about the two people that are most responsible for making magic happen, obviously Richard's responsible. He made the game. But there's a lot of stuff that has to happen between, okay, the game exists, and now we've got to make the game.

We have to actually raise the money and print. And so a lot of what Peter did was he had to go and sell it. You know, Richard was making it. Peter had to sell it. So what happened was Richard went off, went back to the University of Philadelphia. He had a bunch of play tefters with all the early play tefters. The East Coast play tefters, Scaapalais, Jim Lynn, Dave Petty, Chris Page, the Mirage folk, Bill Rose, Joel Mick, Charlie Cattino, Don Felice, Howard Kallenberg, Elliot Siegel,

Lily, then there was Barry, and anyway, all sorts of people that were playtesters, and he worked with them, and that, if sorts of people that were playtesters. And he worked with them. And that, if you've ever seen them, Richard's original playtest cards were maybe two inches high. I think the original version didn't even have pictures, but Scaf helped them make pictures. So the second version of them had pictures on them.

They were tiny and they were literally chops of cardboard. They weren't like pre-made cards. They were literally cardboard that was printed on and cut up. And like I said, they were like two inches by one inch. They were really tiny. But they made their game and they tested their game and, you know, Richard made, along with help from all the playtesters, made magic. But the next big part of the story is, okay, made magic. But the next big part of the story is, okay, Peter's on board. So what happened was Peter, through Jesper,

because Jesper was the art director, knew Jesper. I think Jesper had attended an art school, or at least knew people from an art school. But anyway, there was an art school that Jesper knew people from, and a lot of the early magic artists were artists from that school.

And remember, it was so early in those days, the artists were not paid with cash, but paid with stock options because they didn't have the money yet. And that a lot of this early sort of, you know, like no one knew necessarily, like if you're an artist and someone's paying you stock options,

you hope this comes of something and Peter obviously was driven and excited but like there was a lot still to happen and so the story Peter was telling is that so they go they manage to print some of the cards and get like a test

version of the cards and they take them to Origins. Origins is a big Gamma is the Game Manufacturer Association. And Gamma has a convention every year called Origins. And I think it moves around. I'm not sure if it still moves around. Back in the day, it moved around. And I think it was in, what did Peter say, Dallas, I think?

it was in, what did Peter say, Dallas, I think? So Peter flew to Origins with the first off the line stuff, because once again, Peter had raised enough money to print it, but he hadn't even raised enough money to get it back through customs. He sort of printed it on the idea that once he had something to show people, he would use that to convince more people. And he tells this great story about how he's showing off the cards at Origins and that somebody from a distributor comes up to him.

And the way Peter likes to tell the story is they were down south, and this was a company that was, I think, from Albuquerque is where they're based. And a guy comes up, and he's a tall guy, and he has a cowboy hat on, and he sits down and demos it. And he goes, oh, I got to go get, I'm making up the names, Peter actually knows the names,

but like, I got to go get Merle. And so he goes away and comes back like half an hour later, and it's a guy even bigger than him with an even bigger cowboy hat. And he sits down and he plays it. And he goes, I got to get Stan. And so the two of them go off. And half an hour later, an even bigger guy with an even bigger hat comes.

And he plays it. And he goes, we got to get Wayne. So they leave. And half an hour later, so I guess Wayne wasn't quite taller than the last guy, although he had a bigger hat, so he was taller to come with the hat. And so the biggest guy yet, Wayne, comes. And Wayne plays, and then he says,

we've got to go out to dinner tonight. So Wayne runs a distribution company, and at the dinner, basically, Wayne says how he's really excited. He sees the potential in this game. And Peter basically says to him, look, I need to raise the last amount of money so I can get these old cards to the border.

Would you be willing to order in advance, pay up front? And I'll give you a break on it. I'll give you some percentage off or something. And so Wayne made this giant order and that was enough money to get the cards through customs. Anyway, so Origins is a big success because they're finally able to finance the game.

And so then what happens is, the next big convention is Gen Con. And Gen Con is where it's going to be. It's in August of 1993. That is where the game is going to premiere. And so I believe the convention was Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. It was a four-day convention. So for those who know, Gen Con is probably the biggest gaming convention in the U.S. is probably the biggest gaming convention in the U.S.

I think it is... And it was started by the people who made Dungeons & Dragons. So TSR was the original maker of Dungeons & Dragons. And during the heyday in the 70s, when Dungeons & Dragons was kind of at its peak, or originally was at its peak, it seems to be doing quite well, they started a game convention that was mostly about role-playing,

but it ended up becoming a bigger, you know, a game convention. And as far as Peter was concerned, this was the mecca. Peter always loved GemCon. In fact, Peter later, years later, would buy GemCon, and now he runs GemCon.

Anyway, so what happens is they go, and it's Thursday, and they have a booth. And they, I think they double the size of, I mean, it still wasn't that big a booth, but they double the size of their booth because it's like the premiere of Magic. They fly everybody in the company who's, now, everybody in the company is not a lot of people

at that time, by the way. But anyway, and so it's that we're that time, by the way. Anyway, and so it's going to be Magic is going to premiere. Thursday comes, the show opens up, the cards aren't there yet. They're supposed to be shipped directly there. Cards aren't shipped there yet. And then Friday comes, and I think

I think the cards don't come until midday Saturday. Like Thursday, they're not there. Friday, they're not there. And I think Saturday, midday, they come. Or maybe they come, actually, I made me turn this over. I think they come midday Friday. Sorry. Peter tells the story better because he lived it.

So it's not their Thursday, not their Friday morning, but Friday afternoon they show up. And there's all these people that have heard about it that want to purchase it. So they literally bring the people with them to help carry the boxes in. And then Friday, a bunch of people buy stuff and then it calms back down. But then that night, everybody who bought it is playing all night and everything. So the next day, them and all their friends come to buy stuff. And then by Saturday night, that's all that's going on night. Like anywhere you look, people are playing. It's just taking over the convention. So Sunday comes, and they just buy them out of everything else they own.

And Peter says, he goes home from Gen Con and quits his job. He's like, I'm a game designer. I run a game company. And he quits his bowling job. And he says, this is going to put us on the map. So anyway, let's flash forward. So Peter was the CEO of Wizards from the time I first got there

up until when the company gets sold to Hasbro. And Peter stuck around for a little bit, but it was clear that how Peter liked to run the company and how Hasbro wanted the company to run was not exactly synced. And so about a year or so after the company was purchased, Peter moves on. Peter decides he's going to go elsewhere.

I mean, Peter did really, really well with the sale. Like I said, he went on to buy Gen Con. It's done a lot of other cool other things. But, oh, so my first memory of meeting Peter, by the way, real quickly, just talking about meeting these people, is I had been flown up to do various projects. I was freelancing. And I was brought up for, I don't forget what it was.

I got brought up to the offices a couple times. The first time I got brought up, they were all away on a weekend away. They were doing like a company retreat or something. They went like skiing or something. It's kind of cool. But anyway, the second time I came up, I finally got introduced to Peter. And Peter is a really, just a happy guy. Like, I mean, a part of it is I think Peter loved games and like his dream,

like he, you know, spent years working at Boeing. I think he was an engineer, I think. But anyway, his true love was games and finally, like, not only was he in charge of a game company, but he's in charge of a game company that kind of exploded and was becoming one of the most successful game companies in, you know, in the country. And Peter was just, it was his dream come true.

And so what I always remember Peter is just always being excited. You know, there's a lot going on. I mean, Peter had never been a CEO before. There were a lot of challenges Peter was facing. But Peter was excited and Peter was happy. And I remember I came to work. I met Peter for the first time when I came up. I think Catherine introduced us to him.

And at the time, I think I was, people knew me as the puzzle guy. So I think the first time I met him, whenever I would meet somebody, it was like, oh, it's the puzzle guy. So I think the first time I met him, whenever I would meet somebody, it was like, oh, it's the puzzle guy. And he goes, oh, yeah, the puzzle guy. And people liked the puzzles. And so my first meeting with him was, I think he was in the middle of doing something else,

so it was a very brief introduction. The story my mom always tells about meeting Peter is, I came up in October of 1995 to work for Wizards, which was a big deal. Like, I was going to live in L.A. and do the L.A. thing, and I decided I was going to change careers and move up here. And then in December, there's this giant layoff we call Black Wednesday, where they basically laid off all the role-playing

because it was clear that Magic, obviously, was doing real well for us, but we were losing a lot of money in the role-playing, and they decided that Magic obviously was doing real well for us, but we were losing a lot of money in the role-playing and they decided to sort of condense things and that for the time being, they had to get rid of the role-playing, which was a giant hit to Peter. Peter loved role-playing. But anyway, my mom was visiting shortly after that happened and my mom was concerned because I had just moved everything to move up here and my mom was like, oh, they just had major layoffs.

There's this company going under. And so she goes up to Peter and says, should my son worry about his job? Which is a very mom thing to do, to go up to your son's boss and say, hey, should he be worrying about his job? And Peter's response to my mom was, oh, no way. Mark does way too much work. We couldn't replace Mark. That was his response. But anyway, so,

oh, Peter, by the way, also, Peter was the one that got, that was responsible for buying Dungeon Dragons. He learned that TSR, the company that had Dungeon Dragons, was having lots of problems, and I don't know all the details, but basically, they were in a position to sell Dungeon Dragons, and

like I said, Peter was a role-playing, I mean, Dungeon Dragons was as dear to his heart as anything. I mean, it was the granddaddy of role-playing games, the king of role-playing games, and king of role-playing games, and then it had fallen on hard times. And Peter realized that he had the opportunity to not only purchase Dungeons & Dragons, but bring it back.

A really sort of, you know, here was a game on the verge, a classic game on the verge of not existing anymore. And Peter had a chance to save the game and probably the happiest, I mean, there's a lot of happy moments in Peter's life, running around the parking lot and all sorts of things, you know, selling out Magic and Gen Con, all sorts of things that were really cool. But I think the thing that actually made him happiest was buying Dungeon Dragons. That made him super, super happy. Anyway, we flash forward. Okay, so back to our, so Peter comes in, I picked out. Okay, so back to our... So, Peter comes in.

I picked out my wardrobe. And Peter... I think he had brought... Oh, Peter had brought, by the way... Peter had brought a jacket. So, when I first came to work for Wizards, there were three t-shirts that they sold the public. Three magic t-shirts.

One had a... The Suvin Doppelganger on back. That's the first one I ever bought. Second one had a Nightmare on back. And third one had Armageddon clock. There also was a Jihad shirt, by the way, which was another game they made, later becoming Vampire the Eternal Struggle.

But those were the three magic shirts. But there was a secret fourth magic shirt that had a Herlun Minotaur on back that was only for employees. You couldn't buy it. You had to be an employee. And at one point, they made jean jackets. And the Herland Minotaur was kind of the unofficial spokesperson of the company. So they made these jean jackets that put Herland Minotaur on the back. Some of them were blue and some of them

were black. So Peter, I think, had lost his original one but went back and bought one. And so he wore it to the event. If you see him in the videos, he's wearing it. It's a blue denim. I heard he was bringing it here, so I brought mine. So mine's black. From back in the day. In fact, I have one and Laura, my wife, also had one.

Because she worked at the company. I also have... We later made one that has a nightmare on back. I have that one too. I have not... Unlike other people, I don't get rid of my old clothes. Unless they are completely falling apart. So I have a large collection of old magic clothing memorabilia. Anyway,

so I brought my jacket. So I think in the video, if you see it, he is wearing his. I put mine on for one piece of the video. So if you see a video with both of us wearing our jackets, I put it on at one point. So anyway, Richard actually showed up last, but he ended up going up first. So there was a makeup person, so I got put in makeup. So Richard went and shot his part first,

and then I got a chance to talk with Peter, who, like I said, I haven't seen Peter in forever, so we got to catch up. I know Peter's, he's really got into movie making, so he's doing a lot of shooting right now. I think he went back to school and studied that. Also, Gen Con's still doing awesome stuff, and we talked about that. And then I filled him in on Magic.

Well, he's a big gamer. You know, he keeps tabs on Magic, but he's not... I'm obviously a little more interconnected. So I just tell him a lot of stories about things Magic's up to, and just telling him about cool stories about magic. And he was sharing me things about Gen Con, just stuff he'd been up to. And also, um, talked about his dad or someone I knew back in the day.

And, um, anyway, we shared a bunch of stories. Um, and then it was time for all three of us. The next thing we did is all three of us shot. So we all came in. Um, and then was probably my favorite part of the day is they asked us questions and then we answered them. And really the first part of the questions were about the history of magic. So basically it was, I was in the middle and Peter was on my left, I think, and Richard was on my right. And they would ask questions about early magic, about the creative magic. And then I would look to my left and Peter would tell the story. And I looked to the right and Richard would ask questions about early magic about the creative mat and then i would look to my left and peter would tell the story and i looked to the right and richard would tell a story and i knew some of the stories they had told but i did not know all the stories some of which i told you today so like i'm just hearing stories straight from richard and peter awesome i mean

like just to see it on video would be awesome but i'm literally standing in between them um and and at some point i tell my story is more, I was kind of like, I also started the game at Alpha, but I mean, I'm more from the, like, I was a player. Like, my story in some ways is not the story of the people making the game

as much as someone enjoying the game. And I got in really early. And I told a little bit about sort of what Magic was like in the early days when, like, you had to stand in line to buy product. You couldn't just go to the store and buy it. You had to know what day it was coming in, get there early, stand in line, and hope by the time that you got up in front of the line, they still had stuff for you to buy. And I talked about, you know, just, like, I bought some Alpha. I think I've told this story.

But I was working at a game store part-time at the time. People came in. They asked about the game. And so then when I went to San Diego Comic-Con that summer, they were sold out of the game, but I managed to see it for the first time. And then a week or two later, or a couple weeks later, there was a game convention in Los Angeles. I think it was called Orcon, but there were three of them, and one of them was Orcon.

There were three of them during the course of the year, but it was the one at the end of the summer. And they had Alpha, and I bought some Alpha. I bought a starter and three boosters. And then I realized after that that I wanted more, and it was all sold out. So I ended up waiting. I found a store that got beta in, and it was all sold out. So I ended up waiting. I found a store that got beta in, and then I bought two boxes of starters and two boxes of boosters. Not because I thought I was going to open it all, but because I wanted people to play with, and I knew that if I didn't have the product, then I wouldn't have anybody to play with.

So I started selling it to my friends that I thought would enjoy it. Now, interesting, the story goes, I later went back and bought all the stuff back for my friends because none of them really started playing it and I wanted the card, so I ended up buying it back for them. But anyway, so I told my story from sort of my end of it and we shared a bunch of stories. In some ways, if you see me on the video, I started acting kind of like interviewer just because most of the stories they were telling was more their stories than my stories. But I knew enough of the stories already

that I could jump in and make sure they hit points. So anyway, I don't know what part of the videos they're going to show at the thing. We shot, actually, for maybe half an hour. And it's possible some of that footage that doesn't get used for the happy birthday stuff will be used later. But anyway, there's awesome footage

of me and Richard and Peter. So anyway, we then shared a bunch of stories, and then we broke. Then was lunch. So my lunchtime, the interesting thing was, I had done the vision design for Cricket, an awesome set that I can't tell you anything about, that one day I will, and it's very exciting. But I had to do, when vision hands off to set design,

I do a presentation of the magic meeting where I and the lead creative person which was Doug Byer in this case do a shared thing where we sort of talk about where the set's at what vision did what the vision for the set is where the story is at you know kind of just like laying out everything we did in vision so that we can talk about where the set is at so people have a sense going into set design. Usually it happens anywhere from three to four weeks after the handoff. So set design usually is in motion.

But set design happens for like nine to twelve months. So it's early, early in set design. And anyway, usually I get art from, I get concept art and stuff that we, whatever we have lying around. Sam Burley was the art director for this and he had done a lot of advance, more so than normal. So I actually had a decent amount of art.

Sometimes what we use is we use art that are like inspirational things that aren't stuff that we made, but kind of inspired it. This actually had a lot of original art that we had done, because we had done much early concepting. So anyway, I gave my presentation. My lunch break was me giving a presentation with Doug. I ended up actually taking the entire lunch break. So when I got back, I think actually I got back just in time to quickly eat my lunch.

I think I had like 10 minutes. Oh, no, no, no. When I got back, they were shooting Peter. That's right. I got back, they were shooting Peter because I was last. And so Peter did his segment where they talked

about his stuff. Then it was my turn they freshened up my makeup. And then I went in and I talked all about they asked me questions and I shared a bunch of stories. Some of the stories are stuff you guys have heard. A few things were new things. But they asked me a bunch of stories and I told

about different things, and like I said, most of the stories are probably stuff, if you guys have listened to all the stuff I've done, all my podcasts, listen to my their stories, I think probably about 80% of the stories I've told before. I had a few new stories, based on some questions they asked. But anyway,

I shot that. Okay, now comes the more esoteric part of the day. Once that was done, I then had to pick a, they picked a different outfit. Okay, now comes the more esoteric part of the day. Once that was done, I then had to pick a different outfit. So the Japan offices had come to the brand team with an idea. They wanted to make some standees of me to put at the birthday Grand Prix in Japan, or the birthday Grand Prix in Japan. And the idea was they had technology

where they could put a voice chip. And so when you walked up to it, you would push a button, and then I would say something. So in order to do that, first they came to me and they said, is it okay if they have standees of you? Because they did ask my permission.

And I said, oh sure, that sounds a little upbeat but fun. I've never been made into a standee before. The one thing I did ask is I said, when it's all said and done, could I have one of the standees? Because I think it's awesome to have a standee of me. Just because how many people have standees of themselves? Not a lot.

So the first thing we did is the same studio that shot the video, they had to redress it. I had to get changed because they wanted a different outfit. In this outfit I was wearing, they wanted me to wear the Planeswalker symbol, just to be more up-to-date and not, like the Mirage, I was trying to be like old school, because we were talking old school stuff. But now I'm a little more modern, so we changed around.

I think I changed my flannel, so I changed something different. Different shirt, different flannel. And then they had to shoot me against a white background. Because in order to do it, they needed to cut me out. So they changed the room into a white backdrop. It was a black backdrop for shooting the videos. Because it makes us pop. And then they basically had me make 8,000 poses.

Do this. Because no one knew exactly quite how they wanted the standees to look. So what they did was they just asked me to do 8 million poses. And, like, the idea was, well, we shot Mark doing every possible pose. Now, remember, they're making, I think they're making five, I think they're going to make five standees. And I think each standee was going to be a different pose. So that, and then, oh, once they decided to make standees for Japan,

I think they decided to make one for Vegas. So I'm going to Las Vegas. It's the one birthday Grand Prix I'm going to. So if you plan to go to one of the birthday Grand Prix's and you want to meet me, I am going to the Las Vegas Grand Prix. Now, the Grand Prix, I think, is Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. My daughter, Rachel, graduates high school on Thursday.

And then my younger children, Adam and Sarah, graduate from middle school on Friday. So Thursday and Friday, I'm going to graduation. But Saturday and Sunday, I will be there. And there are, I know there's a question mark plan and there's some other panel stuff. And I'm sure I'll be signing and I'm sure I'll be doing all sorts of stuff. So anyway, if you're planning to go to Birthday Grand Prix and me being there has any sway, I will be in Las Vegas. Bring that up, by the way, because I think the plan is

since they were going to make standees, they thought it was funny to make one for Vegas. So I think Vegas only gets one standee. But I believe if you want to see a standee of me, and me too, but maybe a standee is more exciting, you get to go to Vegas and you can see a standee of me, and me too, but maybe a standee is more exciting, you've got to go to Vegas and you can see a standee of me, as long as me. You might even see me standing next to my standee.

I predict I'm going to take a lot of pictures of me and my standee. I'm just a bold plan. Anyway, so in order to make all the standees, I think there's six standees, I think there's six getting made, we had to take pictures,

so I took a whole bunch of pictures, and then there's sound getting made. We had to take pictures. I took a whole bunch of pictures. And then there's sound. So for the Japanese, the Japanese wanted a combination of me talking Japanese and me talking English. So we had one of our translators. They made a bunch of things they wanted me to say, and I got to okay them. And so I then, they translated into Japanese and then I, we went up to the, so we, for the audio part, we went up to the audio studio so I could be mic'd

and everything. And so what happened is, she would say, the translator would say the word in Japanese, each word one by one, then I would repeat it. and then they would string them together. We tried having me do a whole bunch at once, but it was crisper and clearer. If she said the word, I'd just directly copy the word. Because when she said the whole sentence, and then I copied the whole sentence, like the beginning was good, and it would drift off a little bit. But if I could just listen to one thing exactly and repeat it, I was much better at that.

So anyway, they then translated all my sentences, all the Japanese stuff. And then I did a bunch of sentences in English. So I did stuff like, I'm pulling on my driveway. You all know what that means. And I did, you know, restrictions, read creativity. I did a bunch of different things in English. So I don't know, I don't know with the standees whether I say one thing per standee

or whether I get to say a bunch of things per standee. Like it rotates, I have no idea. But I recorded, I recorded a lot of things. I gave them a lot, I took a lot of pictures. I recorded a lot of sounds. So anyway, for those that, for those that, anyway, I don't know quite when you push the button what you will hear. I recorded a lot of stuff. So I did all that.

And then, because my day wasn't long enough, if you guys remember I did a whole podcast on shooting the videos, the how-to videos that I did with Gabby Sparks. Well, it turns out that they're planning to use those videos over many seasons, and so whenever they change the cards that are in them, they come to me to have them do VO, so that I can introduce the new cards.

So basically, every three months, they need me to come in the studio and just go, it's this card, it's that card, and literally in that voice for my one of the videos, I'm screaming like it's a wrestling match. Anyway, if you haven't seen those for my one of the videos I'm screaming like it's a wrestling match. Anyway, if you haven't seen those, I think all the videos are up now. If you haven't seen the videos with me and Gabby.

But anyway, I shot that and then that was the end of my day. It turned out, by the way, I missed somebody had was trying to get us to make a planeswalker out of a character. I don't even remember who the character was. But they made an ice cream cake, and they sent an ice cream cake,

and on the cake it said, please make this character, anyway, I missed the ice cream cake, so. R&D had an ice cream cake. Although I tend not to eat sweets during the week, so I probably couldn't eat it anyway. But, anyway, it was,

it was a full day. I disappeared in the morning, came back in the evening, and everyone was like, where'd you go? I'm like, I was, and in the middle, in the morning, came back in the evening, and was like, where'd you go? I'm like, I was... And in the middle, in my lunch, I did my presentation. But anyway, I hope this gives you a little... Like I said, this was sort of a hodgepodge-y podcast,

sort of built around me spending the day, but hopefully I just did some background. Like I said, I think most people know Richard Garfield is. I mean, today, in some ways, we're talking a little bit more about Peter than Richard, because I've talked people know Richard Garfield is. I mean, today in some ways was telling a little bit more about Peter than Richard, because I've talked more about Richard. But one of these days I'll probably do a full podcast just on Richard. I think Richard is probably worthy of an entire podcast. But like I said, it was fun.

I always like seeing Richard. I've seen Richard more recently than I've seen Peter. So seeing Peter, today was a little bit more of Peter just. I just, I've seen Richard more recently than I've seen Peter. So seeing Peter, today was a little bit more of a Peter just because I haven't talked as much about Peter or I've talked some about Richard

and I'm almost to work. I think my thought today was maybe to tell more stories about Richard but just in the nature of how this turned out. I do promise at some point I will do a link

to your podcast about Richard. The one thing, by the way, that was interesting listening to Richard talk that I did not realize, the one part of the story that got added today is, it's very interesting in that once something is said and done, it's very easy to go, of course you made it. But it's interesting to hear Richard talk about the doubt he had when he was making it and that he had this really crazy

idea. But like, you don't know, like, the interesting thing about me listening to Richard talk about it was that, um, he came up with this really crazy idea that was exciting to him, and revolutionary from a game design standpoint, um, but it's interesting how, how unsure Richard was of it. That's the part that I really hammered home when Richard was telling his story about making the game, about how, you know, like, Peter kind of said, here's the parameters of what I can do, and then, like, restrictions for creativity, like, it inspired Richard to make something that he might not have made otherwise. And obviously, like, there's, like, I think that in my not have made otherwise. Um, and obviously like there was,

like, I think that in my mind, listening to Richard talk, like once he got to cards, once he was like, I'm making a card game. Cause I, I think what happened is, um, Peter knew that, um, that, um, card of Monday could make trading cards because they made trading cards. And I think he might have even said something like, oh, I know Cardamondi can make cards, they make trading cards. That might have inspired Richard to go, oh, a trading card game.

And the idea of a trading card game implied in trading cards is that they're randomized. So it's kind of funny, like, I think the thing that might have led to Richard's sort of idea was just this, like, the happenstance of circumstance where he came to pitch a game, they couldn't make the game that he pitched, but in hearing what could be made, like, set this challenge in motion where it's like, well, here's the parameters by which

we could work, and it was those parameters that made Richard realize you know that they made him come up with the idea for magic the trading card game so it is it is uh for those that believe in serendipity um that like it was just the right people in the right place at the right time and that the reason when I say you know the game wouldn't exist if not for Peter is, in many ways, it is sort of the, it's the coming together of Richard and Peter at that one moment with that one, that sort of spurred, like, magic got born in the moment where Peter said,

I can't do this, but I could do that, which inspired Richard to say, wait a minute, could we do that, and go bam, and then got him off to do it. So it is kind of neat that magic is this kind of thing that got created out of sort of filling the goal of an idea of going, here's this thing.

Can we make this thing? And going, yeah, I think we can. So anyway, that is the story. I had a lot of fun. If you can go, there's four or five So anyway, that is the story. I had a lot of fun. If you can go, there's four or five Grand Prix's all around the world. There's one in Japan. There's one in Brazil, I think. I think there's two in the U.S.

Anyway, there's a bunch. There's one in Europe, I believe. I think there's five. Anyway, they're all around the world. If you have a chance to go to a Grand Prix, you will get to see. I'll be at Las Vegas. All the rest, there'll be video. There are Wizards people going to all of them, not me,

but there are Wizards people going to all of them. In fact, there may even be R&D people going to all of them. So anyway, if you have a chance to go to the birthday, there's a lot of fun stuff going on. I know there's some fun stuff planned. You might see a video with me and Richard and Peter, a little heads up. But anyway, that's what happened. That was the story.

So I hope you guys enjoyed today's tale. And I'll see you guys next time. So I'm now parked. So we all know what that means. This is the end of my drive to work. Instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. I'll see you guys next time. Bye-bye.