Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #589: Chicago

Episode Date: November 16, 2018

My family went to Chicago to drop off my oldest daughter Rachel at college, so I talk all about how the city of Chicago has intersected with Magic.

I'm pulling up my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time to drive to work. Okay, so today I just got back from a week-long trip to Chicago. So for those who've been listening along, you know that Rachel is off to college. For privacy reasons, I'm not going to say what college she's going to, but she chose a college in Chicago. So we needed to go drop off Rachel. And while we were there, we thought we'd see Chicago. So Rachel and I had gone last, in the winter, to go see the college when she was trying to figure out where she wanted to go. But other than that trip, none of my family had ever been to Chicago before. No, I had been. And a lot of today is going

to talk about my many times in Chicago, most of which were about magic. My very, very first trip to Chicago, first couple actually, were not at all magic related. They were when I was a kid. My mom has a twin sister named Ellen, and Ellen for a while lived in Chicago, and we visited her there once or twice. Then she moved to Milwaukee, and we visited her multiple times in Milwaukee. And a couple of the times we ended up in Chicago was like an hour from Milwaukee. So in my youth, I was in Chicago a bunch of times. I have some vague memories of it just because I was a bit young.

But anyway, my first few times in Chicago were before Magic existed. My first time in Chicago post-Magic, because Wizards sent me there, there's a thing called the ABA, which stands for the American Bookseller Association, I believe. And it's all about if you want to sell books, it's a convention all about, you know,

all the publishers and stuff gather. And Magic was doing things with books. And so this convention all about, you know, all the publishers and stuff gather. And Magic was doing things with books. And so this is the very early days where I was going to every convention they would let me go to. And I'm not sure how in the world I ended up at the ABA convention, but I was excited to go to Chicago, I guess. I don't know what it was. So anyway, that was the first time, I think, on Wizard'sards time that I went to Chicago. But the main, my main trip, the ones that really are, I mean, I don't remember much about my trip to the ABA.

I mean, very vaguely. But the other five trips that I took on Wizards was to five Pro Tours. So there have been five Chicago Pro Tours, all of which were pretty exciting. So I'm going to talk today about the Pro Tours, then a little bit about Chicago in general. My family did have a chance to sort of see Chicago, so I will weave in some Chicago things as we talk about different Chicago events. Okay, so we're going to go back to October 10th through 12th of 1997. So this was in the second season? So the Pro Tour started in 1996,

in February of 1996. So this would be the second season. So I think if I remember correctly, this was the first, is that right? It might have been the start of the third season. Because the first season was very short. It was just New York, Los Angeles, Columbus, and Worlds. And so the second, yeah, this was the beginning of the third season. And in it, a young upstart,

someone who we'd never seen before. This was his first pro tour. He went and won the pro tour. You might know him as Randy Bueller. So this is the first time I ever met Randy. So Randy shows up at his very first Pro Tour, it was an extended event, and Randy was playing a Necro deck built by Eric Lauer, who, I had no idea who Eric Lauer was at the time, obviously I work with him very closely now. So what happened was, Randy Bueller was at the time. Obviously, I work with him very closely now. So what happened was, Randy Bueller was playing David Mills.

For those that might not know their Pro Tour history, in the second season, David Mills was in the finals of the second Pro Tour Los Angeles against Tomi Hovi of Finland, and Dave's from the U.S. And at the time, you had to pay for your spells

before you played them. Like, you, you had to tap your mana first and then play your spell. Now you can show the spell and then tap in response.

Um, anyway, David, uh, kept showing the spell before he tapped his mana, so much so that he got more and more

warnings for it, and finally, uh, he was about to get DQ'd. I mean, he eventually did get DQ'd from it. Because the judges kept telling him not to do that. And because it was part of how he played. Like, it was so ingrained. Like, he wasn't thinking about it.

And what happened was, it was game four. And he needed a card to beat Tomy. Tomy was up two to one. And David needed a certain card to be able to win the game and, oh I'm sorry I'm sorry, he wasn't up two to one. He was up right, he was, David Mills was up two to one. This would have been

this would have won the whole thing for him and so all he needed was a certain amount of mana to be able to play this card and then he was going to win. And so when he finally got the mana he needed, he was so excited that he just played it right away. And the judges had given warning upon warning upon warning, and so he got a final warning and got DQ'd. Now, there was a big brouhaha. Have you ever heard?

I think I've done a podcast on the riot in LA, the player riot. People were very upset. We'd never DQ'd someone in the finals before. And the DQ was super technical. It wasn't like, like I said, we later would change the rules because we felt like it just was something that players should be able to do. That it really shouldn't be illegal. But anyway, David Mills was famous kind of for that incident.

So it was another of season three. That happened in season two. Season three, very first pro tour of the season. And young upstart Randy Bueller plays David Mills in the finals. And I don't remember what Mills was playing. Randy was playing a necrodeck built by Eric, who he called the Mad Doctor, I believe was how he referred to him. That was his nickname back in the day. So what happens is, they're playing in the finals, and Randy, the winning

moment of the match is something where Randy assumes Dave has something, so he's playing around it. But then he gets to the point where he realizes that Dave doesn't actually have it. He could have won turns earlier, but he was playing cautious because he thought that Dave Mills had something, which Dave didn't have. Dave had played something a certain way that the only way it made sense is if he had something, but he didn't. Anyway, Randy wins, and he's very surprised. He did not expect to win when he wins. Not that he didn't expect to overall win. He just didn't think in that moment right there he was going to win.

So what used to happen back in the day was we used to, I used to interview the players after they won. Sometimes I would interview, for a while I would interview them in between matches. If you ever saw my famous interview with Tomi Hovey from that very same LA, where I just couldn't get Tomi to talk, and then I started laughing. Ah, a wonderful interview. And I started doing interviews after, I think, just because in between didn't work quite as well. So anyway, after Randy wins, I interview him. I have no idea where this tape went.

It might be lost for all. But there was a great interview where I'm interviewing Randy and Randy is just shell-shocked because he's just won the Pro Tour and he kind of won in a fashion that he didn't expect to win and just like he kind of can't believe he won.

And so I'm interviewing him and he's very excited. It's a young Randy. And anyway, there's a lot of tape that over the years has gotten lost. That's one of the things

I've always wished to find is this interview of me of Randy because it was a very fun interview and Randy's just completely shocked. So obviously, Randy would go on

to work for Wizards. He would actually be my boss at one point. He's the one that actually promoted me to head designer. He would go on to do commentary. I'll talk about that in a second. And he would eventually get in the Hall of Fame.

In fact, here's a great trivia question. Every single winner of a Pro Tour Chicago, and there's five Pro Tour Chicago's, although only four winners, we'll get to that, have been inducted into the Hall of Fame. And numerous of the runner-ups have as well. As I get to them, I'll talk about that. But anyway, so that's the first Pro Tour Chicago, the one Randy won.

And it was quite exciting, like I said. We, at the time, the way the Pro Tour worked was we sort of moved around. Pro Tour worked was we sort of moved around and in the early years of the Pro Tour, we decided we wanted to sort of have a little bit of anchoring. So we often would have a Pro Tour in Los Angeles

on the boat, the Queen Mary, which was a hotel, but it was literally a boat that was anchored. And then we would have, we had a lot of Pro Tours in Chicago. So LA and Chicago were the ones where we repeated the most. We did go back to New York a few times. Um, usually in the early days, one of the pro tours, we would go to, um, Europe and

one of the pro tours, we would go to Japan, uh, back in the early days. That's how the rotation tended to work. Um, anyway, so the next year, in fact, I think exactly a year later, September 25th to the 27th, 1998, meaning the first pro tour of the season. Um, Worlds at the time used to be in, um, usually August. So Worlds would be the end of the season and then it would start. Um, things have shifted a little bit over time. Anyway, um, oh, oh, by the way, another good factoid I wanted to point out was of the five top eights in Chicago, the five PT top eights, John Finkel is in the top eight of four of them. He actually, the one that Randy won, John came in third.

Now, John would later that season, in the third season, go on to win his very first pro tour in PT New York. season gone to win his very first Pro Tour in PT New York. And I think John goes on to become Pro Player of the Year that year. Because he wins a Pro Tour, he comes in third here. I think he has one other top eight that year. John does very well.

Anyway, okay, season four. So, once again, Pro Tour Chicago is won by a first-timer, a guy from Germany named Dirk Baberowski. You might recognize him. Dirk was on a...

Dirk and Kai Buda and Marco Bloom were part of the Phoenix Foundation, which was a team that won multiple team events. So Dirk won one individual event, which is this one, which was a team that won multiple team events. So Kirk, I'm not going to say Dirk. Dirk won one individual event which is this one and then two team events. So Dirk is one of a handful of players to have won three Pro Tours. In fact, Dirk

has done it, John has done it, Kai has done it. I'm not sure if there's anybody else that's won three. There's a bunch of people that have won two but I think that's the only three that won three but it's a bunch of people that have won two, but I think that's the only three that won three, but it's possible in the last year, I'm not as up on my Pro Tour trivia

as I once was because I'm not as involved in Pro Tour. So someone might have done it more recently, but anyway. So this is Dirk's first Pro Tour ever.

It's a Rochester draft tournament and he ends up playing a guy named Casey McCarroll in the finals. So Casey is, he would go on to win a different Pro Tour New York, not the one that John won. I think the one that was held in Rye. Anyway, so Dirk, this is the first time we'd ever seen Dirk.

Like, Randy had come on for the first time and won the first Pro Tour. So we had another person. Dirk would go on. Obviously, he would win three Pro Tours, too, which on Phoenix Foundation won by himself. He would get into the first Pro Tour. So we had another person. Dirk would go on. Obviously, he would win three Pro Tours, too, which on Phoenix Foundation won by himself. He would get into the Hall of Fame. Dirk was a really, really good player. I know when people would compliment Kai Buda

and they would say to Kai that he was the best player in the world. And he'd go, no, that's Dirk Faberewski, Kai would say. Anyway, this was the first time we met Dirk. And I kind of remember this one. A lot of the famous stories about this portrait aren't even about Dirk. There was... Actually, the story I remember about this one actually involves Randy. I don't mean to probably get into this too much,

but the story basically is Randy is playing... Who's Randy playing? He's playing a Canadian. And the person he's playing... The person he's playing... It was late in the tournament, and they were trying to figure out whether to play or not, and they had seeded figure out whether to play or not. And they had seeded before their

teammate had said, you have to play or whatever. And so, technically, it was advice from outside. And Randy was a stickler for the rules and ended up getting a game loss for his opponent. And it was one of those, it was like a real

technical, I mean, like, Randy was correct on the books. The people had broken the rules. And it was one of those, it was like a real technical, I mean like, Randy was correct on the books, the people had broken the rules, but it was a very, it was one of those things where it was kind of like, it was only in the technical sense, like it was, it was neither people were really doing what the point of the rule was, it was just kind of like, had he said the thing while he was standing before he sat, then it technically wouldn't have been into the rules. It's only that he sat down first before the person said the thing to him.

And the fact that Randy called the technical foul on him and got the game lost, a lot of people didn't like at the time. A lot of little tiny controversies at the moment. Anyway, so Dirk goes on to win, and it was a very exciting pro tour. Okay, so the next pro tour in Chicago is a year later, December 3rd through the 5th in 1999. So Bob Marr Jr. is playing Brian Davis.

So both of them are from the U.S. Obviously, by the way, Randy and David are from the U.S., and Casey and Casey was from the US, Dirk was from Germany so Bob I'm not sure, Bob had obviously been a player that people had known, he hadn't won anything yet Brian Davis was out of California I believe, and both of them were considered to be really good players so the most famous thing about this, it was an extended tournament. Oh, for those that don't know, extended is

was a format we used to have where it was like standard, but instead of being two years, it was between five to eight years. Basically every three years we'd rotate three blocks. So it would always be at least five blocks big, but would get as big as eight blocks big. And modern kind of took its place, but it was kind of a rotating format that had more cards in it. Eventually we went to a non-rotating format that had more cards in it. Anyway, the most famous thing about this match, the classic story is is it's the only time someone won a Pro Tour when their opponent went 5-0. And what that means is Bob Marr, every single game that Brian Davis lost to Bob Marr, so three of them obviously because Bob won 3-2, Brian Davis could have won.

won 3-2. Brian Davis could have won. That there in each case there was a way for him to win on the table that he missed. And that Bob managed to find, like, in each of the games, there was like

no way Bob could win. And then through a combination of Brian missing some things and Bob just always looking for the perfect out, Bob managed to win a pro tour that, like, looked unwinnable. Like I said, Brian Davis, in every single game he lost, there's a moment where he could have done something to win the game that he missed. And Bob, even with the misses by Brian,

Bob had to take a lot of interesting chances and had played very smart. And anyway, Bob went on to win. And he would later, I think he wins this season. And then I believe at Worlds that year, he goes to the final two with John Finkel. John beats him in the finals. But Bob goes on to win Pro Player of the Year, beating, I think, Darwin Castle.

There's a famous scene in Brussels, in Worlds, where John is playing Bob Martin in the finals, and you see Darwin Castle rooting for Finkel. Or maybe,

sorry, maybe he was rooting for his, I think Bob clinched it when he got to the finals. So I think it was Darwin rooting against Bob in the semifinals, I believe.

Anyway, so, this was one of those really exciting matches. And another interesting trivia is, I believe I had experimented with, I used to do the final days. I produced the final days. And I experimented with using Randy doing commentary at Worlds in 96. But my go-to commentators at the time

were Brian Weissman and Chris Pakula. But I think Brian... For some reason, I stopped using them more of their choice than my choice. I think they weren't continually going to Pro Tours or they couldn't do it. I forget what it was. But I started experimenting

with new people. And my memory is, I think this Pro Tour, it was Brian Hacker and Randy Bueller. I'm not sure if it was. But I started experimenting with new people. And my memory is, I think this Pro Tour, it was Brian Hacker and Randy Buehler. I'm not sure if it was Randy's first time. I mean, in Worlds in 96 he did the quarterfinals. And then Bracula lost in the quarterfinals and did the semis and finals.

This might have been the first time Randy did the full game. I'm not 100% on that. But obviously Randy had just learned how to play. I mean, he had just won two years earlier. Anyway, Brian Hacker and Randy Buehler

did the commentary on this really good. It's one of my favorite matches. Just from a pure, just amazing, like, who knows what's going to happen and the crowd was really into it and the commentary was really good and, you know what's going to happen, and the crowd was really into it, and the commentary was really good, and, you know, trying to sort of... Every game was like, how could Bob Marr get out of this one?

And even the games that Bob... Even the games that Bob won, like, there were three games that Brian should have won, like, had the win. The other two were not easy games for Bob either. They were just games where I don't think Bob had the win on the table and didn't take it. So anyway, it was definitely

a real nail-biter. And like I said, it went to five games, because it's best of five. And in every game, you couldn't believe that Bob pulled it out. But like, how is he going to continue to do this? And it was really one of the most interesting and most technical to sort of you know, Bob taking

every tiny advantage he could. Because the decks were a mismatch. Bob was not supposed to win that matchup. The matchup deck-wise was better for Brian. Anyway, that was the third Pro Tour Chicago. Oh, by the way, in that Pro Tour Chicago, so in the first one, John Finkel came in third. In the second, John Finkel came in third. In the second, John Finkel came in fifth. In the third, it's the only one, the one that Bob won. The only of all the Pro Tour Chicago is that John Finkel did not top eight.

But interestingly, Bob, sorry, Dirk Babarowski did top eight. So he went back-to-back top eights in Chicago. And once again, proving that he was a Hall of Fame caliber player. So obviously, Bob Marr would go on to get inducted into the Hall of Fame. Okay, so the next pro tour,

a year later, December 1st through the 3rd, in the year 2000, a little guy, not a little guy, he's big, a big guy named Kai Muda would go on to win.

So at this point, Kai had won the Worlds in 1999 in Yokohama. And when Kai won Worlds, it was kind of a surprise. Now, those that knew, Kai had actually went first, first, first, second in four of the European Grand Prixs. And so the Europeans were well aware that he was a really good player. So I had heard of him and knew who he was but when he was it was kind of a surprise to most people just because he hadn't been somebody that he'd seen before.

His first, not his first Pro Tour, but his first Pro Tour top eight was at a Worlds where he won, beating Marc Lepine in the finals I believe. So anyway this was Kai's second ever win the first pro tour Kai actually wins two Chicago's little spoiler

I think the first person to ever do that but we'll get to that in a second meaning win two pro tours in the same city okay so

Kai it's a standard pro tour at the time we didn't actually do a lot of standard pro tours now that's

something we do all the time but for the early pro a lot of standard Pro Tours. Now that's something we do all the time. But for the early Pro Tour, we really avoided standard. You'd play standard in the World Championships, but standard wasn't something we based a lot of Pro Tours on early on. The idea being that people were playing lots and lots

of standards in the store, maybe we'd showcase other formats at the Pro Tour. We would later reverse that decision, obviously. So, there's a lot of talk about how good Kai was. And so, in this one, Kai makes the top eight. In fact, I think 2000, I didn't write down this full top eight, but the 2000 top eight, obviously John Finkel's in it. I believe this is the top 8

in which 6 of the top 8 would go on to get into the Hall of Fame it's one of the Chicago's that Kai wins I think it's the first one that Kai wins so it's just chock full I mean chock full of names when we have the argument what's the most star filled top 8 ever

I believe it's Chicago 2000, it's one of the most sort of star-filled top eight ever? I believe it's Chicago 2000. It's one of the contenders of, because like I said, six of the people in the top eight, six of the top eight had a goal on to be in the Hall of Fame. The seventh, I believe, won another Pro Tour, and the eighth had another top eight, although, I think it was like JLR.

I don't know. It's magic trivia in my brain. Anyway, Kai Buda ends up playing Camille Cornelissen from the Netherlands. He is also, both Kai and Camille, would later get inducted into the Hall of Fame. I believe this is the Pro Tour where John and Kai play, I think it was the semifinals. They played for the first time in the top eight. They had never played before in the top eight. It's the first time they'd both made top eight together. And they actually were in the bracket where they

met each other. It was my job to pick the matches. I picked what we showed. And I remember my instruction was, here's what we're going to do. We're going to start on the Kai John match. And then we're going to not leave it until it is over. And then if we have time, we're going to start on the Kai- John match, and then we're

going to not leave it until it is over. And then if we have time, we'll see everybody else. We're going to watch the entire match beginning and end. John Finkel is playing Kai Buda. We're going to watch this. Although, actually, maybe that wasn't this Pro Tour. Maybe it was the next time.

Because Kai, Kai's not Kai. I mean, he would go on to win this. But Kai isn't, I think actually 2003 must be when they meet in the semifinals. Because at the time I did it, it was a giant deal.

So it must have been Kai. This is just Kai's. Now, at the time, Tomi Hovi had won two Los Angeleses. And John had just won

a Pro Tour and then a Worlds. So Kai winning this made him the second ever person to win a Worlds to win a Worlds and a Pro Tour and the third ever to win two Pro Tours because Worlds was considered a Pro Tour. And like I said, he had, this was a, I believe this is the star-studded top eight.

I believe the semifinals with Finkel's coming up in the next Pro Tour Chicago. But anyway, this is standard. I think Brian Kibler played in this top eight. I think Zvi Maksimov, I think. And I'm not remembering all the top eight. Rob, I think, was in the top eight. Anyway, a very star-studded top eight. Okay, then we get to January 7th of 19th, 2003.

So it's a couple years later. So Kai Buda defeats Nikolai Herzog from Norway. It's a Rochester draft tournament. Finkel ends up being third. We'll talk about that in a second. And so both Kai and Nikolai go on to be in the Hall of Fame. So at this point, Kai went on a tear. So his first, well, first win was in Yokohama.

Second win was, first non-Worlds win was in Chicago. And then between these two Chicagos, Kai would go on to win, I think, six, well, Kai in the end, this Pro Tour in Chicago, I think it's his last win, I think. I think, it might be one off. Kai goes on to win seven Pro Tours, which is kind of unheard of. John

has won three Pro Tours. Now, John has a lot more top eights than Kai, but John has yet to catch up to Kai's wins, because seven wins is kind of... And he did the vast, vast majority of his wins in like a two-year stretch. Anyway, I think this is his final win.

I think it might be a sixth win. But anyway, this is the one where Kai meets John in the semifinals. The reason I know that is it was a giant deal at the time. John, at this point in time, John had won two Pro Tours, both the Worlds and a Pro Tour. And Kai had won, I think, five or six at this point, one of which was a World. And they, like, early, early on, if you've ever heard my story, when the Pro Tour first started,

the best player in the world was a guy named Mark Justice, When the Pro Tour first started, the best player in the world was a guy named Mark Justice, who had come in, who had won the U.S. National Championship, beating Henry Stern, and then had gone on to take third at Worlds, and then third at the next Worlds, and then he came in top eight at the first Pro Tour. And then he ended up being top two at that year's Worlds. So early on, the best player in the world was Mark Justice. Then Ula Rade, who came in, won Pro Tour Columbus, ended up winning the Pro Player of the Year for the first season,

ended up being sort of the new, oh, he's the best player. Ula is the best player in the world. And then I think John sort of stole the crown from Ula. And then Kai stole the crown from John. And then there's a lot of debate between who is better between John and Kai, and the debates got rekindled

because John, while Kai had an amazing, amazing run, John has gone on to have a little more longevity and have more top eight, so it's an interesting question. I mean, obviously both of them have amazing, amazing stats. Both of them are in Hall of Fame. Both of them are almost unanimously voted in. Should have been unanimously voted in.

Anyway, so this, I believe, was the time where they actually, and I think in the previous Chicago, they didn't meet. Or if they did meet, it might not have been as big a deal just because Kai wasn't quite Kaibuda yet. Not in the way he would be. So there was a big talk of who was the best in Magic history. Who was the best in the world? And obviously, Kai was on a

magic streak, so people were leaning toward Kai. But John was still in the discussion. So the idea of John playing Kai in the semifinals was a big deal. And Kai would go on to win, obviously, and then go on to take on Nikolai in the finals. And this was Roshecher Draft.

So one of the interesting things about this, a little trivia here, is that Kai, I think Kai is the only person to win two different Pro Tours in the same city. For sure in different formats, just because that alone is a hard feat. But also, I mean, John has won twice. John won three times, but never in the same city. Tomi won twice, but not in the same city. Phoenix Foundation won twice. Phoenix Foundation, I don't think it was.

I mean, it could have been Madison. We were Madison Square Garden a couple years. So maybe Phoenix Foundation won twice in Madison Square Garden. But if they did, at least as far as an individual win, Kai's the only person to individually win. The funny thing is, if the Phoenix Foundation did it, Kai was on the Phoenix Foundation.

So then Kai did it in another city. But anyway, this was really the... I remember when Kai won the last Chicago. It was just... I mean, every time, one of the things to be aware of, every time Kai would win, like when he won the second one, people were like, oh, it's amazing.

But then when he won the third one, like, he won three. He won four. He won five. He won six. He won seven. Like, it was just, at the time, it was kind of crazy. Anyway, that is, those are my major memories of Chicago, was all the pro-tourists in Chicago. Keep racking my brain if I Chicago, was all the protests in Chicago. Keep racking my brain if I've ever been to Chicago for something else. One of the things, now that my daughter's in Chicago,

I'm planning to try to attend more events in Chicago. So I probably will have some more Chicago stories. So real quickly, just to sort of sum up, we dropped right to the first half of the vacation really was getting Rachel set up for school and doing shopping. We bought a lot of stuff there because we had to ship all her stuff just because we chose

not to make the four-day drive to Chicago from Seattle. So we ended up buying a lot of things she needed there so we didn't have to transport it. So the first three days really were us getting her ready. But then the back half of the vacation was more us getting to see the city.

I have a cousin named Laurel who lives in Chicago, so she got a show to run one day. Laurel took us to Navy Pier. So Navy Pier, by the way, is where the first pro tour that Randy won, or I mean the first pro tour in Chicago, the one that Randy won, was actually at the Navy Pier.

All the rest were in a convention hall. They weren't at the Navy Pier. That was the one year we were in the Navy Pier. My daughter and I, my younger daughter, Sarah and I, got to go up to the top of a Hancock building, and they had this thing where they tilt you 30 degrees, like 190-some stories up. We had a chance to go to The Bean.

I posted a comic today, but for you guys it would be many, many weeks ago, with me at The Bean. So The Bean, for those who don't know, there's this, I don't know the name of the sculpture. There's a sculptor who's supposedly not a really nice guy who made this sculpture that is this all metal and closed

sculpture that from one angle looks like a bean. For other angles it doesn't, but from one angle it looks like a bean. And I think he called it Cloud Gate, I think is his official name, which I joke sounds like some controversy in heaven. But anyway, the

people of Chicago call it The Bean because it looks like a big bean. From the main angle, it looks like a big bean. And supposedly he hates it to be called The Bean, and he's not a nice people. So they continue to call it The Bean. Partly because it's a fun name. And partly because it upsets the artists.

I don't know. Anyway, so we got a chance to see The Bean. Oh, my family is a big fan of deep dish pizza. So what I did before I went to Chicago is I asked as many people who had lived in Chicago, formerly lived in Chicago, or some people who still live in Chicago, I asked them for their favorite pizza place.

And I tabulated all the votes. So we ended up eating at four places. Now, I might have missed the best place. So if there's a really good place, text me, because I'm going to visit my daughter again, and I will have some pizza. So we ate at Luminati's. We ate at Pequod's.

We ate at Giordano's. And we ate at Gino's East. I will say that my favorite, I enjoyed all of them. I thought they were all good pizza. I think my favorite, personally, was Gino's East. Although, Giordano's, it's funny, there's a place here in Chicago called Delfino's, and Giordano's and Delfino's taste a lot alike, and I really like Delfino's.

So, in a lot of ways, Giordano's was a lot. I mean, probably Delfino's is based off Giordano's, I guess. But anyway, I enjoyed Giordano's. So I think my pick on pizza from my personal taste of pizza, they were all good pizzas, by the way, was I think my favorite was Gino's East, then Giordano's, then I'm not sure between Pequod's and Luminati's. I like taste of pizza, they were all good pizzas, by the way, was, I think my favorite was Gino's East,

then Giordano's, then I'm not sure between Pequod's and Luminati's. I like both of them, but they were, they were both similar in that they were not quite as deep, and they both had a crunchier crust. Also, what else did we do? We went to the Science Museum, although we did not get into the Pixar exhibit.

There was a Pixar exhibit we did not get into just because they hadn't sold out before we got there. And we just, we did a lot of walking around, and There was a Pixar exhibit we did not get into just because it got sold out before we got there. And we just, we did a lot of walking around, and we saw a lot, I don't know, we, I actually have a little, on my, my phone tracks how much I walk. And so, turns out, while I was in Chicago, for eight days in Chicago,

I walked 15 miles. Five zero miles. We did a lot of walking. And so, anyway, I walked 15 miles. Five zero miles. We did a lot of walking. And so anyway, I had a great time and I mean, the only bittersweet part about it was

I had to say goodbye to my, I mean, not forever, but I had to put my daughter off to college. So my next podcast, by the way, this is actually, I decided to split this

into two podcasts because I thought there was a lot of fun stories about Chicago. So I thought I'd start today by talking Chicago. But my next podcast I'm going to talk about dropping my daughter off at school and my next podcast is called Letting Go. So I'm going to compare dropping off my daughter to college to handing over a set to somebody else to continue working on. So that sounds interesting. Tune in next time. But anyway, I'm

driving up to work, so funny, whenever I'm away for a week, a lot of things pile up, so I know I'm going to go in and have a mountain of emails and stuff to deal with. But anyway, hope you guys enjoyed today's podcast. I'm a big fan of Chicago. Obviously,

I plan to, at least in the near future, visit Chicago quite a bit. And I hope you guys, if you've never been to Chicago, I will make a plea, not a plea, but I'll say you'll get a chance to visit. The Windy City is quite a nice place.

My daughter fell in love with it. Last fall, we went to visit to see the school, and my daughter really fell in love with the city. I've always liked the city. Although I had to warn her that she's going to experience a new cold. My daughter's lived in Seattle, and so the

coldest temperature she's ever really faced is like the teens. She doesn't know what a negative temperature is. But anyway, we bought her a warm coat. So anyway, I'm now at work. So we all know what that means. This is the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic,

it's time for me to be making magic. I'll see you guys next time. Bye-bye.