Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #700: Plane Diversity

Episode Date: December 20, 2019

In this podcast, I talk about a popular topic from my blog about why Magic worlds aren't all as diverse as Dominaria.

I'm putting on my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for another drive to work. Okay guys, today I'm going to address a question I get all the time. What the critics call the world of hats problem. So let me first explain what the world of hats problem is and then I'll explain why it's not a problem. is and then I'll explain why it's not a problem. Okay, so there is a thing called TV Tropes, which is a website that what it does is it lists all the different tropes that you see in entertainment, be it movies, TV, books, comics, you name it. And what they do is there's a lot of, when I say a trope, what I mean is there are certain things that are resonant that people are familiar with. There's certain just things that storytellers do that

are common. A lot of them are shorthand to be able to communicate something. But what the website is really into is sort of playing up, oh, hey, these are all the tropes that you can recognize and we'll name them and talk about them. And it's just a neat way to sort of illustrate and show how tropes work. So one of the tropes is called the Planet of Hats. And it is based off Star Trek. I think Star Trek is the one that inspired this. And the idea is how every week, you know, Star Trek would travel to new and different worlds. And every world they visit, everybody about that world would have some unique quality. They would all wear the same hat, is the idea.

Like, oh, it's gangster world. They're all gangsters. Or it's hippie world, and they're all hippie. The idea is that worlds would have one defining trait, and then everybody on that world would sort of match that defining trait. And they refer to that trope as Planet of Hats. So, people came to us. So, one of the things is,

magic spent most of the first ten years of its life on one world, Dominaria. We occasionally went other places, but even then, even something like, for example, Rabia, which was Arabian Nights, we only after the fact later called it Rabia. Like, it wasn't like when it came out that we were sort of promoting it as a different plane. If it just, you know, like, if you look at early magic, we did a lot of diversity as far as the different kinds of places, but we never officially left the plane. Oh, look, it's Ice World, but that's just one continent of Dominaria. Oh, look, it's Ice World, but that's just one continent of Dominaria.

Oh, look, it's Jungle World, but that's just a different continent of Dominaria. And it wasn't until Homelands, I believe, where we consciously went to a new plane. Homelands was designed, the story was built around the idea that it was its own plane. And in the early

years, you know, when I did the Weatherlight Side Guy, I was trying to get us off the worlds. We went to Wrath and we ended up going to Mercadia. So there was a little bit of getting off of the plane. But the first 10 years really were, let's just move around the singular plane that is Dominaria. Okay, so let's get to the World of Hats issue that gets brought up. So one of the complaints is when we make worlds now, our worlds are very defined.

Innishrod is gothic horror world. Theros is Greek mythology world. Amonkhet is Egyptian, you know, bolus Egyptian world. That when we make a world, we tend to, you know, Throne of Eldraine is our 3 in fairytale world. That we tend to collapse it down. And that one of the complaints that we get is, oh, I liked how you did Dominaria. I liked having more fleshed out worlds. Worlds that have a lot of different facets to them.

Much like Earth does. Why can't you make more worlds like Earth? Okay, so today's podcast is going to explain why we do that. Why do we concentrate our worlds to be more singular in what they are, having a more defining trait to them. And the answer is, we need to. But I'm going to walk you through why we need to. So here's the biggest thing to understand, which is in storytelling, your property can have one of two qualities to it. One is that you stay in one singular world and that maybe within that world you travel, but you stay within one singular world. And that maybe within that world you travel, but you stay within one singular world.

Or your property is defined by the fact that you travel to other places. Star Trek, Star Wars, they have a lot of that singular quality where it takes place over, you know, well, I guess occasionally you see Earth on Star Trek. The whole idea of Star Trek is they're visiting different worlds. That's kind of the quality of the show. They're traveling. It's a mission. They go and find other places.

Likewise, something like Star Wars is spread out over a whole series of planets. And what you'll notice is when you're centered in one place, your place that you are can have a lot of diversity to it. Meaning, obviously, if you're on Earth, you're on Earth. So let's say you're set on a planet that's just a singular place. That's where you are. Oh, well, that place really can have some depth of biomes and things. It can really be different. depth of biomes and things. It can really be different because you are not defining,

your IP is not defined by worrying about different places. You don't have that. But if your IP is about traveling to different places, if the idea is there is a whole wide world out there of differences. You need to really make sure that all the places you travel have some distinction to them. Otherwise, I mean, well, there's a bunch of problems. Really, the idea is if I'm going to travel somewhere and I'm going to go to different places, you need those places to have identity. You need those places to mean something. And if, for example, you, if every place we went was, was earth-like in that it had lots of biomes and lots of diversity and wow, it really had lots of facets to it, you would lose, you would not have the ability to sort of have that identification. So I'm going to walk through a number of reasons why this is important.

But number one is identification. It's identity. Meaning, in Magic's case, we make a lot of worlds. We need the audience to understand those worlds. And we need them to understand them pretty simply and quickly. those worlds and we need them to understand them pretty simply and quickly. Let's say, for example, that every time we went somewhere, you know, the cars just showed a wide diversity of what was going on. You wouldn't get any sense of what the identity of the world is. You know, one of the reasons we have to sort of concentrate is it is the concentration that gives it identity.

the concentration that gives it identity. And, for example, I use Star Wars as an example. If every time you visited a planet on Star Wars, every planet was a planet of 20 biomes. Well, how do you remember the planets? How do you separate Tatooine from Hoth, from Cortisone, Cortison? Cortison.

From, you know, I'm blinking on names of planets from Star Wars. But the idea is that the reason you know Tatooine is it's the desert planet. It's a desert. If you see them in a desert, you're like, oh, that must be Tatooine is it's the desert planet. It's a desert. If you see them in a desert, you're like, oh, that must be Tatooine. It's the desert planet.

If you see them on an ice hoth, that's the ice planet. You know what I'm saying? You have the city planet, the forest planet, that the worlds of Star Wars are defined, and in that place they define my biome, but it's defined because, oh, well, the world's a singular thing. And so when I see it, I get that it's a singular thing, that I understand that, oh, you know,

I don't have to worry about if I see, you know, when I see the planet, I can go, oh, I got it. It's this planet. And if, for example, you know, all the different planets from Star Wars all had a desert section and an ice section and a forest section and a city section. Like, if they had all those different biomes, then how do I know when I'm on Tatooine versus on Hoth? How do you know that? You know what I'm

saying? How do I know I'm on Endor? How do I know I'm on Dagobah? How do I know those things? How do I know where they are? And it's like, oh, I see a swamp. I'm on Dagobah. I see a forest. I'm on Endor. I see ice and snow. I'm on Hoth. The definitional thing of that helps you define what those are and helps you remember. They give the world's identity.

So once again, if your IP is about traveling, is about having different various places, if you don't give those identity, they will all blur and they won't have identity. So the number one reason that we do that, the number one reason that we concentrate what our worlds are, is we want them to have identity. We want them to mean something. Okay, well why is it

important that people can remember them and they mean something? Well, a couple things. One is, our whole IP, our magic, the whole way we make magic is, we put out a new set every three months. Now, some of the time we stay in the same world, but we're constantly moving where we are.

We're constantly changing. And part of what we want is, we want you to get excited for the new world. And there's two different ways about that. One is, let's say it's a new world. Well, if it's a new world, we want to be able to pitch to you in a very simple way what to expect.

You know what I'm saying? That, you know, Throne of Eldrins coming out, literally on the very first slide that I showed people when I was announcing the set, I'm like, Camelot meets Fairytale. It meets Grimm's Fairytale. That's what I think I said. Cam like, Camelot meets Fairytale. It meets Grimm's Fairytale.

That's what I think I said. Camelot meets Grimm's Fairytale. That was my slide set. Because I want to, in a nice, short, simple way, go, it's this. And with a new world, that is important. That we want people to get excited and set expectations and have them have an idea of what is coming. That is very important. That part of, we put out a lot of magic sets.

You know, we make a lot of different worlds. That if our worlds don't have a clean, crisp identity, you don't remember what they are. And if they don't have that clean identity, it is hard for us to excite people. We want to sell you what the new world is, but we don't have infinite time. We need you to sort of get the gist of what we're doing quickly so that A, you get excited, and B, you get the idea of what to expect. That's another big thing. Part of what we want is, part of what makes us successful, a new world, is we go, we're doing this. And you go, oh, I hope they have that. And that only happens if there's a crisp and clear identity. For example, if I say, it's Camelot

meets Grimm's Fairy Tales, you can go, oh, I hope there's a Little Mermaid card, or I say it's Camelot meets Grimm's fairy tales you can go oh I hope there's a little mermaid card or I hope there's a Excalibur card like right off the bat you have something to hope for you have something to go I want something there's something that I want to be there you know I know for example when we announced Theros a lot of people going oh I hope they have Gorgons I hope they have Hydras I hope you're like like oh, this is my favorite part of this thing. Oh, I'm excited. Will they have that? And that one of the things that really makes new worlds pop is getting the audience invested

in what it might be and understanding what it is and encouraging them to want things that we can deliver on. That's another really important part of a new world. And that we want to sort of sell this idea and then get the audience, once they understand it enough, to then want things that we can then deliver. That is a big part of making a trading card game, is being able to set some expectations, have the audience want things, and then deliver on their wants. And that would be very hard to do if I said, hey, we're going to other world that just has lots of different biomes to it. And, you know, it's got no defining trait. And you're like, I don't know what to expect or hope. I can't remember what it is, nor can I

have ambitions for what it would be. And that is very, very important in making a brand new magic world, that we need you invested on what it can be. Okay, but what if we do a return world? It's very similar. It's that if a return world, if you created a strong identity for the world, then the players have the, oh, oh, oh, it's this, I want that.

Now given the, oh, oh, oh, it's this, I want that. Now, given the, and for example, let's say we do Elting Innistrad example. One of the things that Innistrad does by having a clear identity, it also allows us when we go back to go, okay, the audience knows what we did do, so there's an expectation, but we get to sort of then figure out where are there areas to play around in. That's another thing that happens is when we do a brand new world, we will do stuff. There will be anticipation. We'll meet a lot of the anticipation. We won't meet all the anticipation because a good example for an Eldraine is like,

did we do your favorite fairy tale? Oh, there's a good chance. We did a lot of fairy tales. Did we do them all? No. Did we do all aspects of all of them? No. Even with the Arthurian stuff,

there's some stuff we did not do. So if we go back to Eldraine, it's like, oh, I hope this time they have this thing. So also, part of having a defined identity means in a return, the audience has clear expectations and that we can meet that a lot of times, first time through,

but then if we not, anything we miss, because we're not going to get everything, that allows us in future visits to then follow through on. But the idea of the clear identity, the idea of the very tangible makes it something

that we can build around and work with. Okay, next. World uniqueness. So another problem that we have to deal with is we make a lot of worlds. You know, we... Right now, in Magic, for example, I forget what it is, but if you count all the worlds that have been in standard legal sets, let's not even talk supplemental sets right now,

I think we're in the high teens of worlds that exist. And if you start including stuff in supplemental sets or stuff we've mentioned in Plane Shift, we get into the 30-some worlds, I believe. One of the issues is we're making a lot of worlds. This is the same issue that Star Trek had, same issue that Star Wars had,

that let's say you made a world very robust. Then it gets harder to make the next world unique. You know? Like, one of the issues about Dominaria in general is that if we make every world like Dominaria, if every world, oh, this continent is this and this continent is that,

like if every world just divvies up into what essentially could be multiple worlds, like one of the things, looking back, is Ice Age could have just been on a brand new plane that was a plane dealing with the ice and it's defined by its iceness. And Mirage could have been its own plane that was a jungle plane. We made all these different things that had uniqueness to them,

but by sticking them on the same world, we're just kind of using up world ideas in a way that it just lets us make less unique worlds. So A, two issues. One is that just we run out of things to do. I mean, I'll get to it in a second. There's a lot of this also has to do with behind the scenes making of it,

which I'll get to. But we need the world to be unique and there's not endless things to riff off of. You know, for example, let's say we just take biomes um first off if we start with earth biomes meaning things you can actually see on earth there's a limit you know i'm saying um one of the things we definitely do you'll notice for example when we build a set is we will usually take a real world analogy of that thing. Like, for example, Ravnica is using Eastern Europe, you know, and so we're taking a lot of the shape language. Sometimes we borrow from the architecture, you know.

One of the easiest things for us to do, or maybe, easy is fine, but one of the things is we can borrow from existing things. Part of that is looking through the geography of the now, and part of that is looking through history. Like, for example, there's definitely a lot of Amonkhet or Theros that are borrowed from ancient Egypt or ancient Greece. But we need to find sources of inspiration. I mean, every once in a while, yeah, we can make some things that are just made up

that you've never seen before. But if we don't have a real world inspiration to use as a guideline, it just becomes infinitely harder. And so we need, in order to be unique, we need to have, like, on some level, it's the same reason why, let's take comprehension and not worry about comprehension for a second.

Why do we concentrate the number of mechanics in a set? I mean, part of it is complexity, but another part of it is, I need to give sets identity. If I use lots and lots of mechanics in a set. I mean, part of it is complexity. But another part of it is I need to give sets identity. If I used lots and lots of mechanics in every set and every set had all the same mechanics,

it would lose a little bit of identity. The fact that you associate Kaladesh with energy or Zendikar with landfall or Innistrad with transform, those things help give them identity. Having crisp, clean, clear, mechanical stuff gives them identity. The same is true for the creative elements.

That it's something where we have so many worlds to make that if we can't slice our worlds thin... And the same thing is true, like I said, for Star Wars. If they had just made, you know, if Tatooine was just like a normal, like Earth, well then how do we make Hoth different? You know what I'm saying? How do we make Endor different?

How do we make Dagobah different? How do we make these other worlds different? And like I said, the slicing them is a means and a way to help give them uniqueness. And that uniqueness is something that is, especially in a place where we're just going to keep making new worlds. Like right now, for example, I'm many years ahead and we have many new worlds.

Like we are working on many new worlds right now. And each of those new worlds is a challenge. And so we need to have something to build off. There's not infinite things to build off of. And, you know, part of chopping it up is to make it easier to create this sense of uniqueness between worlds. Okay. Also, on a similar thing of that is comprehension, world comprehension, which is one of the of that is comprehension, world comprehension, which is one of the things that we are trying to do is we want you to be able to wrap your head around what the world is. For example, the same is true, well, part of that is mechanics.

Part of that is, oh, well, there's something about the gameplay that this world is identified by. You know, in Zendikar, for example, like, okay, in this world, land's important. You're going to care about playing land. So you're going to think about land in a way you don't normally think about. But that's a Zendikar thing. That's not an every world thing. That's a Zendikar thing. Okay, well, on Ravnica,

we care more about color pairs. So that's something you have to focus a little more on. It's always multicolored, and you have to focus on that. If you're in Lorwyn, there's a tribal component. If you're not, you're like, whatever it is, there's something about the world that we mechanically give it identity. And in the same sense, part of giving that,

helping with comprehension is making it so it's not just mechanically crisp and clear, but it's creatively crisp and clear. So for example, we're building Innistrad. I want to do some tribal components. Well, I want to combine what we're doing with the world. Oh, well, it's gothic horror world. Okay, we'll make monsters and humans, but aren't they the true monsters? So, we're going to make monster tribes, but we're sort of marrying them together. So, when you come to Innistrad, how do you remember Innistrad? How do you absorb Innistrad? One of the things that we have to worry about is,

A, I want you to get excited by it. I want you to have anticipation for it. But also, when you come to actually play it, I need you to be able to wrap your brain around it, wrap your mind around it. Now, sometimes we use the worlds to do top-down design, and that's when the creative goes even farther and becomes sort of a core part of the mechanical identity. Innistrad is a great example where a lot of what ties Innistrad together

is the fact that it's gothic horror. That if I remove the gothic horror from it, the set wouldn't hold together like it does. And so top-down sets need that. But even bottom-up sets, even something like Ravnica, which was a bottom-up set, the guild identity really is a glue that mechanically and cohesively holds it together. And part of the way that you can sort of comprehend the gameplay, like a lot, for example, of understanding how Ravnica works

is us selling a world that reinforces something that you get to rely and build on. And a lot of times when people sort of argue this, they're like, oh, well, I just enjoy a world that has a lot more diversity to it. I enjoy a world where a lot more is going on. That just seems more real to me. That's the argument that has a lot more diversity to it. You know, I enjoy a world where a lot more is going on. That just seems more real to me. That's the argument I get a lot. And my answer is, yeah, yes, a world with lots of biomes is more real. The issue is when you're trying to create

something, like one of the lessons of having taken a lot of writing courses, there is a difference between reality. Well, there's a difference between reality, well, there's a difference between what is true and what reads true. Like, the idea of telling a story is not trying to perfectly capture reality. The idea of telling a story is you're trying to tell a good story. And there are a lot of things that you do, and I think TV tropes, me starting with TV tropes is a great example of this. There's a reason that tropes exist. There's a reason that you do, and I think TV tropes, me starting with TV tropes is a great example of this. There's a reason that tropes exist. There's a reason that you tend to do things, there's a shorthand in storytelling.

Like the reason that TV tropes exist is not that it finds, it's not trying to find flaw with tropes. It is trying to get to people understand tropes. And what tropes do, and what we're doing here when we're building these worlds are very tropey by design, is tropes are a mental shorthand. That if I want to communicate something to you, there are ways that have been built up over time in how we tell stories that the audience has learned and internalized.

And when you make use of those tropes, like one of the things I talk a lot about is why magic loves tropes. Like why, if you've ever heard me talk, I talk about how important tropes are. And the reason tropes are important is we have a difficult job, which is we make a new set every three months. We need you to comprehend and understand the new set as quickly as you can. Now, part of it is there's certain continuity. Magic works a certain way.

There's certain rules that you have to relearn every time you play. One of the reasons that I think Magic as a game is great is that I talk about this all the time. At some level, every set is kind of its own game. But the rule sets overlap. And there's a lot of familiarity because, well, if I know how to play this magic expansion, I can figure out pretty quickly how to play that magic expansion.

Yeah, there's different rules that you have to learn. There's new mechanics you have to learn, but the basics are the same, so you can pick up and play very quickly. That same... The need of that trope space is something that shorthands the comprehension. And so when people are trying to understand something,

the reason that we rely on tropes, the reason that storytellers rely on tropes, the reason that anybody who's trying to do entertainment tends to rely on tropes is it makes it easier to... people pick it up faster. And when you are trying to convey a lot of information, and magic sets convey a lot of information,

that ease of understanding is very helpful. For example, if you had come to Throne of Eldraine and it was like, oh, there's no cohesive creative, it's just things, that would make it a lot harder to wrap your mind around. Like when you can see a card and go, oh, oh, it's Pinocchio, I got it, it's just things, that would make it a lot harder to wrap your mind around. Like when you can see a card and go, oh, oh, it's Pinocchio. I got it, it's Pinocchio.

Like just that mental wrapping. And I told the story numerous times, but like in Theros, we had a crowing horse. So we had a crowing horse. So originally it was Trojan horse is what we made. Now there's no Troy on Theros, so it became a croa.

So it became a crone horse. But at one point, they changed it to a crone lion. And all of a sudden, nobody got the card. The card was a top-down Trojan horse. When it entered the battlefield, you gave it to your opponent, but then every turn, you got a 1-1 creature. And if you know it's a Trojan horse, it's a darling card. People loved it.

The second we moved one step away, when it was a Crow and Lion, it wasn't Trojan, it wasn't horse, the people were like, I don't even get it. This card's weird. What's this card doing? And it went from this darling, cute, really fun card to this confusing card. And that is because without the trokes, without the architecture land there,

comprehension becomes really hard and that is another big part of us giving the world's definition is we need you to absorb and understand the world, that that comprehension is something very important. Okay, now let's get into one of, I mean, a lot of what I'm talking about is why the worlds are impactful and helpful for the audience.

And that is true. We want you to get excited. We want you to understand it. We want you to differentiate it. We want you to have anticipation. All that is true. But there's another giant factor that also goes into this. And that is we have to make it.

also goes into this and that is we have to make it. Another giant help of defining our worlds is it is so much easier to make a world that has a clean and clear definition. Much like it's easier for you all to understand the world, it is much easier for us to build the world and we got to build a lot of worlds. And well okay let me walk through the various things. First and foremost, we need a focus to build a world. We need that creatively, we need it mechanically. Like, for example, when I was building Throne of Eldraine, mechanically, okay, I understood the tools I had at my disposal. The reason I could sort of wrap my brain around the world is I could wrap my brain around the source material.

Okay, well, I know Arthurian legend. I've read Arthurian legend. I've seen movies and TV shows. Like, I understand a lot of the components of what Arthurian legend is. Likewise, I understand fairy tales. I've had a lot of interaction with fairy tales. So now when I say it's a world of Arthurian legend and fairy tales, okay, all of a sudden

like one of the hardest things and I talk about this all the time starting with a blank piece of paper is daunting when you can do anything when anything is available to you it is crippling it paralyzes you but the second I say

okay no no no we're not doing anything we're doing this we're doing this. We're doing Arthurian legend and fairy tales. All of a sudden, everything in the world that is not Arthurian legend or fairy tales, I can ignore. And you know what? That is 99.9% of stuff. That is a lot of stuff I can ignore.

And it lets me focus. And that one of the things, I mean, you know, restrictions breed creativity. I say this again and again and again, is it is daunting when anything is possible. And what you really want to do at the beginning of any creative process is pick something to focus on. You need to have a bullseye. You need to have a path. You need to have a direction that you are going. Now, that path can change. You can, like, I'm not saying because you pick a direction that you're

locked in that direction, but it gives you some place to focus and you need to focus. And that is really important. We're going to build a brand new world. I'm going to design it. Creative is going to populate it and going to make a world. Well, we need to know what we need to do. And for example, from a creative standpoint, okay, we're going to go to Theros, this Greek mythology world. Well, let's do some studying of Greek mythology. And they can, like, one of the things we do early on in world building is they'll go out

and they'll find real world source material, or, I mean, from wherever. Any place they can find visuals that said, here is either actual pictures of the thing or different IPs trying to do this thing. Here is the way lots of different people have done this thing. Here's what the thing is. Okay, so it's Greek mythology.

Well, here is what things look like. And here are the areas of Greece. And like, here's all the different source material that we can look at. And from that, we can understand what is the through line in what people, what, how can I make you, how can I show you a picture? And if you go, oh, it's that. And the reality is there's some through lines that come through. And by studying something, we can understand where is the thing that makes you go, ah, this is Greek mythology, or this is ancient Greece, or this is Gothic, whatever.

How do we get you to lock on and understand what that is? And part of that is by having that concentration. That part of having the world have an identity means that the creative team can really go out and focus on something. And that it's that focus. And once again, it might just be, okay, we're doing Ravnica. Okay, we're trying to do a city.

What kind of city do we want? Let's do a little bit of research. And they go, oh, Eastern Europe. That's kind of the vibe we want. Okay, let's go get pictures of Eastern Europe and understand that. And then all of a sudden, you have something to build off of.

And that is the thing that, one of the things that I'm really trying to stress today is that one of the reasons that there's differentiation between the worlds is A, for the audience to comprehend and understand it, but B, for the people who make it to be able to make it. It is not, I mean, one of the things, let's talk a little bit about Dominaria, people who love Dominaria. Dominaria was not, like, right now, we have three months

on any one set. We have three months to build our world, if it's a brand new world. And three months to revisit. Dominaria was designed over ten years. Meaning, it wasn't something we did, like, it wasn't like, oh, we could build Dominaria in the time that we could build any world. No. The reason Dominaria has the depth that it does is because we spent so much different time. We spent time building each little section of it. And, you know, and when I say building it, I, there's a bunch of things. One is the visuals.

What does it look like? Who's there? Part of it is the visuals. Part of it is the cosmology. Oh, what kind of creatures are there? What do they look like? Part of it is the architecture. Part of it is the dress.

What do the buildings look like? How are they dressed? What objects do they use? What weapons do they use? What creatures are here? There's a lot of work that goes in fleshing out. Oh, and then beyond just the visual components of it, the story of it. What kind of government is it? Who lives here? How do they make their living?

Like what kind of world is it? How is it ruled? You know, what is the nature of the world? And we also have to build in what we call the conflict engine. Why are people fighting? We're a game about conflict. What is the nature of the world? And we also have to build in what we call the conflict engine. Why are people fighting? We're a game about conflict. What's the conflict of the world? We've got to tell stories. The world needs an inherent conflict built in. And all those things become so much easier to accomplish

if you have something to start with. For example, the second I say, okay, we're going to do ancient Egypt through the lens of Nicole Bolas. We're going to mash Bolas with Egypt. Okay, all of a sudden, the creative team has something to work with. They have something to study.

They have something to look at. They have stuff to start working off of. Okay, well, what's our architecture going to look like? Okay, well, we have source material to look at. What's our architecture going to look like? Okay, well, we have source material to look at. What's our clothing going to look like? Okay, we have source material to use as inspiration. What kind of creatures do we expect to see here? Okay, well, there's expectations.

What is the audience going to expect to see in the Egyptian world? Well, we've got to have mummies. We've got to have scarabs. We want animal-headed gods. It starts giving you some definition to figure out. Meanwhile, on the mechanical side, it also gives us something to work with. You know, if we're going to build ancient Egypt, okay, well, yeah, it seems like we want to have mummies.

Okay, well, we want to have mummies. Maybe we'll do mummy tribal. Okay, well, how do we make, you know, how do our mummies work? Oh, well, maybe our mummies are black and white. Maybe our mummies serve as their servants. And we start going back and forth between creative and, but having that identity, having that crisp, clear thing makes it easy. A lot of people that want us to build Dominaria seem to forget, like, let's say, for example,

we wanted to build a world as deep as Dominaria. That isn't something we were going to build in three months. That is something that would take us years to build. And that's the other point, which is, if you wanted to get the depth of Dominaria, you would have to give the same amount of time that we spent on Dominaria. Meaning, if you wanted to have a world that was that deep, I mean, and there's a lot of other reasons you might not, we might not want that, but let's say, forget any of the other reasons. Let's say you go, ooh, I want a world as deep as Dominaria. Okay, well, at bare minimum, we have to put the resources and time that we put on Dominaria. That was about,

let's say, if you cut it all out, maybe eight years worth of time. Okay, well, that means we could spend, you know, we spent, I don't know, 30 expansions or something on Dominaria. Okay, we can make a new world and spend 30 expansions on that world, but A, I'm not sure how exciting I'm saying, like, I think the reason that people accepted Dominaria on some level was also we had never,

we hadn't properly created the expectation. Even though we were a world about planes walking in a multiverse. I don't know why we didn't get that early on. But, I mean, there wasn't the expectation for the world jumping as much as there is now. I mean, now, notice, for example, when we market, a lot of us marketing new worlds is, it's this. We're going here, you know. And even when, like, for example, I'll take Ikoria as an example.

You guys don't know much of anything about it. But we did tell you it's monster world. Like, we told you some little snippet to go, ooh, I mean, and even that is us telling you very little. That's three words. And one of them was it's, and one is world. You know what I'm saying? We have one world of real description. And the fact that that one world could be evocative says, oh, well, we've done something where we can evoke something. And it let us build around it and make something. And that is one of the big things that is, yeah, I mean, one of the things that

I think when people ask for Dominaria that they're not quite picking up on is, beyond all the other troubles of making it, just the mere act of the time and investment to do it is not something that we lightfully could do. And I don't think we could get away with setting 30 sets on one place. People get mad. with setting 30 sets on one place. People get mad. Like, for example, we went to Ravnica. Like, our last visit to Ravnica was our, let's see,

eighth and ninth set in Ravnica. Eighth and ninth set. We're not talking 30. Eighth and ninth set. And spread out, you know, the difference between the first Ravnica and the second Ravnica was six years, six, seven years. And then I think the last time it was five, six years.

Anyway, that's spaced out. That is nine sets spaced out over 15-some years. You know what I'm saying? Like, for example, let's say we kept that. Let's say we said, okay, let's keep our returns at the same rate

that we have the returns and we're willing, every time we return to this world, to be there for three sets, even though we don't really do blocks anymore. But let's say

for this special world we'll do that. Oh, sorry, I guess it was eight, nine, and ten because World of Spark was on Ravnica. Anyway, so let's say, sorry, I guess it was 8, 9, and 10 because World of Spark was on Ravnica.

Anyway, so let's say, okay, we get to do 10 worlds over the course of 15 years. That means that in order to get, to catch up to Dominaria, to do a world of the depth of Dominaria at the rate we'll do returns means it would take

45 years to get to that depth. Even Ravnica. Like I'm saying, if we keep visiting Ravnica at the rate we visited Ravnica, it would take 45 years. And every time we go back to Ravnica, yes, there are people excited to see Ravnica,

but they're also a little bit like, oh, Ravnica again? You know, I want a new world. And so, like, this idea that we could just make a world as deep as... When people don't want us revisiting the same world that much, like, it's just not a realistic thing. I think that Dominaria was a special case

based on some choices we made, and I think the biggest connection to Dominaria is not a love of a world that's many different things. I think the love of Dominaria is the nostalgia of what Dominaria is not a love of a world that's many different things. I think the love of Dominaria is the nostalgia of what Dominaria once was. And I'm not, by the way, I'm not saying

there aren't people that don't want us to make multifaceted, complex worlds. I'm just trying to say that it is not something easily done and it is not something

that I think a lot of people, even the people asking for it, necessarily would be happy if we actually had to execute on what would make that happen. Okay. So those, I guess I hit my major reasons here. So those are the various reasons why, why we do very distinctive worlds. So I'm almost at work, so let me recap the various things.

World identity. It really helps people understand what the world is and it makes people, it helps people in getting a sense of what it is, which ties into that it helps with comprehension. So it gives an identity so people know what it is and can talk about it. It gives it comprehension so people can understand it and people walking in can quickly understand what the world is.

It gives a sense of uniqueness because we're trying to make all our worlds different and we don't want the worlds overlapping and being too similar it gives them some differentiation so that we can when designing them focus on different things

it gives them excitement because I think if people the more people can sort of get a sense of what the world is the more they can anticipate the more they can want things it is no mistake that when we tell you new world that when I put up Camelot meets Grimm's fairy tales

that I it's monster world when we're telling you something we want to be able to tell you very little and get you very excited and have a lot of ideas of what you want. The key to a good magic world is that there's a lot of understandable, desirable things to want.

And giving a plane the diversity so it's clean helps to do that. Another big thing is it allows us to have a focus. It is easier for us to build worlds and to build designs when there's something to focus on. And that focus is something that, you know, restrictions bring creativity, that you really, I can't even explain how important that focus is. That if I had to constantly be making sets,

and every set, like, let's say every set was just like Earth. It's Earth again. It's more Earth. Like, oh my God. It's really important that we're like, well, it's not just Earth. It's this tiny portion of Earth. I can focus on this.

It's that. What makes this thing exciting? And in general, it just saves us time. One of the things is we're making a lot of worlds right now, and you know, we got to... We have to be able to do it in three months. We have to be able to make new worlds

in the time allotted that we have to make a new world. And I know it's very exciting to say, oh, well, I mean, one of the things, one of my ongoing themes of this podcast, and just my blog and stuff, is there's a lot of exciting things that people want that the reality is, well, it's just not that easy to deliver. And a lot of what I'm trying to say today is, A, I don't think you would enjoy it as much as you think you would, and B, it is hard to deliver.

And the reason, by the way, I do podcasts like this one where I take something that a lot of people write in. Like, the world of hats issue is not something that, like, one or two people have talked to me about. I've had, for those that are on my blog, it comes up all the time. And that one of the things that I really try to hammer home, and I'm trying to do this today, is that one of the dynamics I learned in general is,

like back when I was writing for TV, is everybody watches TV, or most people watch TV. And one of the things that I find happens is everybody believes in their heart of hearts that, eh, if they had to, you know, if somehow they were forced to, they could probably write a TV show. You know how many TV shows they've watched?

And one of the things about studying writing for television is there's a lot of craft to being able to tell a story. Like, even, for example, studying television versus studying film. They're different mediums. There's some overlap, obviously, in storytelling. But, you know, how to tell a good story on a TV show and understanding the strengths of TV and the weaknesses of TV and understanding the structure of TV and the weaknesses of TV and

understanding the structure of TV and the format and the tools at your disposal. You know, there's a lot that goes into trying to understand how to make something really sing. And one of the things that's amazing, I mean, I'm not just talking about TV, but it's true of any medium, is there's so many amazing things. There's so many just amazing shows that people make that are radically different from one another. But as you study it, as you go in deep and you learn about it, there's a lot of craftsmanship that goes there. And so a lot of times when people say, oh, I can do something, it's like, well, there is more craftsmanship than you might realize. And that people sometimes equate familiarity with understanding. It's the same kind of thing of, I drive a car. Well, clearly I can

fix my car. Yeah. No, I can't. Me driving my car, meaning in order for me to use my car, there's things I have to understand. And I've mastered the art of using a car. I can drive. I know how my car works. I can turn on the heat or the radio station, meaning I've mastered the things I need to use the car. But that does not mean I've mastered the things to fix the car. And so a lot of when people talk about something, it's kind of like someone saying, you know, hey, I would love if my car could do blah. Like my car gets 20 miles per gallon or whatever. I would like to get 100. Okay, you wanting that doesn't make it easy to be. Or sometimes the other thing that's very common is there's things that you think of because you don't know

sort of the craftsmanship of it. Oh, it might be easy. And the reality is, no, that wouldn't be easy. And this is one of those things. This is one of those, well, here's what I would like. I would like every world to have all these different facets and be, you know, representative of Earth. And I'm like,

okay, that would be near impossible to do. I don't even... Not only that, I also think it wouldn't be as enjoyable. Part of what makes entertainment entertainment, what makes games games, part of what makes magic magic,

is that it fulfills certain things and it pushes in certain areas. And so when I bring this up, when I talk about this, this is not me trying to dismiss somebody. This is not me saying, oh, I don't care that you want this. I do care that you want it.

Part of me saying is, there's a reason why it is the way it is. And so I like doing podcasts like this to say, look, we're not ignoring desires. Yeah, I get there's people that want that, but here's why we can't do that. Here's why that ask is a very, very big ask. And it is something that if we deliver it on,

I don't even think it would make most people happy. You know, that if we had to do what it would take to make another Dominaria, you know, to make a world of that depth to do what it would take to make another Dominaria, you know, to make a world of that depth, A, it would take forever. It'd require a lot of visits, way more than I think people would want us to do. And it just wouldn't have a unique mechanical identity. Like I think people, a lot of times when I talk about that, about how Dominaria was really a challenge to give it a mechanical identity, people are like, that doesn't matter. And I'm like, ah, that doesn't matter.

And I'm like, yeah, that's what I do. That is what, yes, it matters. That is what I do. Maybe you don't recognize the importance of mechanical identity. Maybe you don't realize that, you know, we make the same game again and again and again. If each set doesn't have a very crisp, clear sense of what it is, you're going to have problems with it.

And maybe you don't realize you're going to have problems with it. And maybe you don't realize you're going to have problems with it, but it is my job to know that and understand that. And so a lot of what I'm trying to do is, this is why I'm trying to do behind the scenes. I'm trying to explain why things are important, why things are done the way they're done. And having very clean, crisp, clear, identified worlds is a big part of that. So anyway, I hope you guys enjoyed listening to today's podcast and hope it was educational and maybe informative.

But anyway, I'm now at work. So we all know what that means. It means it's the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic.

I'll see you guys next time.