Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #805: Olivia Gobert-Hicks

Episode Date: February 5, 2021

In this podcast, I interview Olivia Gobert-Hicks to talk about Commander, cosplaying, and the Magic community.

I'm not pulling out of my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for another Drive to Work, Coronavirus Edition. Okay, so I've been doing a lot of interviews. That is not going to stop until I guess the pandemic stops. But today I have a fun guest. So Olivia Gobert-Hicks. Hi, how are you, Mark?

So one of the things I've been trying to do with these interviews is show the breadth of the world of magic. And so you're a really good example of somebody who really, like a lot of my interviews are behind the scenes. You're not behind the scenes. You're a magic player. So I want to talk all about your magic experience. So let's go to the very beginning. How did you first learn about magic?

So I first knew about magic, I want to say, well, when did it come out? When I was about seven or eight. first knew about Magic, I want to say, well, when did it come out? When I was about seven or eight. And my next door, my across the street neighbor that I hung out with all the time, actually got a bunch of cards and, you know, played with his friends in middle school or whatever. And always saw the cards, love the art, but never really got into the game. So I've been aware of it for as long as it's existed. Through high school, my friend group all played, loved playing, constantly tried to get me into it it's like yeah it's all right you know i've got x y or z going on so finally um i want to say we were all

in the same city we're all in the san francisco bay area in about 2014 in like the summer and they were good they were going to be doing this big barbecue and i you know came over and everything and they're like we're playing magic. I was like, Oh, you guys are serious. You're like still after all this time. And my friend Silas just grabbed me by the shoulder. He's like, sit down. We're playing. I was like, okay, fine. He's like, I'm going to teach you. Today's the day. So he handed me a mono black commander deck with McKay SC unhallowed at the

helm. And we played an eight person two-headed giant game of commander so there were two people for each you know head as a four-person pod and so while it sounds chaotic and it was and I barely understood what was going on it was really nice I had my you know one of my best friends sitting there explaining hey this is what we're doing when we put land down and why we're tapping it and how you pay costs and kind of walking me through every segment of it. So my first experience with Magic was with seven of my best friends playing in our backyard, having food, just having a really good time. And I was absolutely hooked after that and started becoming a weekly thing. So every Thursday I'd drive over to their place on the other side of the bay

and sit down, borrow someone someone's deck start trying to figure out what all this meant how to play and i've been going ever since it's just been a lot of commander so you're interesting that you're a lot of people i interview mostly because they've been playing for longer um the commander was your introduction right that's what is magic commander is magic that's exactly that's exactly how it was for me. I didn't know that there were other variants. That was what I was introduced to. That's how I played. And so when I finally found out that there were other things,

like, wait, really? You can run multiples of something in a deck? That's not how I play magic. That's not what I know. So I ended up explaining it to my friends up in Seattle and my husband and was saying, hey, you know, this is how I learned how to play Magic. And John and all these other folks that I was playing with up there were like, yeah, what is that? And made me like explain Commander to them. I was like, no, no, no, no, this is what Magic is. What are you guys talking about?

So it was a pretty interesting experience that my first pre-release at Card Kingdom, Hallie Santos was there and sitting across from me during deck building. And I had no idea what I was doing, obviously. And so she was gently letting me know, like, you know, you can run multiple in a deck. Have you done this before? And I was like, kind of, not really, no. So she helped me out, walked me through it. It was an absolute welcoming to everything else. So yeah, I do love doing pre-releases and like steel pool stuff is fun for me too.

But yeah, commander is when I hear magic, that's what I think of. So when you started in 2014, what was the first set? You remember the first set out when you started playing? I think Theros had just come out when I started playing. Original Theros.

Yeah. Original Theros. But the thing was, is that I wasn't, I was given pre-built decks so i didn't have any kind of idea on set stuff until really i want to say about 2015 when i did the origins pre-release is when i was like oh so this is how blocks it was a pretty interesting like kind of introduction everything was like learning about all the stuff that everybody

kind of knows way after the fact. You can play with just one person? I don't understand. Yeah, it was surreal. I mean, it was like, well, don't you need four people to play? No, you don't. You just need one other person. It was like, this is a whole new world to me. Okay, so,

you get introduced, finally. After years, you get introduced, you play, it's an enjoyable experience. So what, let's map your story. Okay, so, in the beginning, After years, you get introduced. You play. It's an enjoyable experience. So let's map your story. Okay, so in the beginning, someone's giving you their decks. You're just borrowing decks from your friends. Okay, when do you start transitioning to, like, when is the first thing you went and bought a magic thing? What's the first thing you bought? The first thing I bought was the Prosh Precon deck from 20, I think it was 2014.

Yeah. Prosh Precon deck from 20, I think it was 2014. Yeah, was the Prosh Precon. And started learning about my friends that will what do you just want, like big stuff that you can swing? Yeah, that sounds fun. I have no idea what I need the color pies or how the theory works or what does what. I just knew that I was still learning everything. So blue was super intimidating. So I didn't want that. so he just was like take this jun deck you'll be fine and um over time like as we were playing i'd start you know seeing other uh creatures or other spells that people would play and so then i started like buying singles and modifying my decks and once that started happening once i started changing things out

of prash is like well maybe i want to do a different color or a different commander so i start slowly buying singles or buying brother pre-cons and modifying them and then it just took off from there and all of a sudden I had this collection and I was buying all kinds of stuff and building new decks and yeah, it was a pretty long-term organic swing into it. So what was the first commander deck

where you, like you chose the commander like not a pre-constructed thing or something loaned to you, you built the deck from scratch. What was your first commander? My first commander that I built from scratch was oh my goodness Prash I modified really really heavily

what was the first one I built? It was, it might have been Athreos honestly or Farika Oh no it was Farika. I built Farika first had no idea what I was doing, but I liked all my black cards, so then I switched to Athreos and bought a bunch of black cards for it.

Okay, so you start once again, I'm trying to map this, so you start as a commander player, just playing for fun, playing with your friends. Okay, so you started dipping your toe a little bit more into the Commander scene.

For sure. For example, but the audience may or may not, I don't know, is you're on the Commander committee, right? The Commander Rules Committee? I wish. I'm sorry, what's the name of your committee? I don't know. I'm on the Advisory Committee. The Advisory Committee. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah.

So, yeah, I started, I want to say, you know, I played, obviously, casually in Commander pretty much exclusively for the next couple years. I want to say until about 2017, was I think when I went to my first GP. And, yeah, just played Commander the entire time I was there. I think I did some magic events in 2016 at emerald city comic-con up in seattle uh the cascade game thing that they were doing um but yeah my first real

like toe dipping into going to events and like really starting to play with other people and kind of expanding myself in that scene i guess would be 2017 when i went to went to GP Vegas and did the command zones like pre-party and then the entire day just sat in those round tables back behind everything, was wondering what all these tournaments were, what they could have been, and was just jamming Commander games all day. So I want to say it was about then that I started, you know, dipping my toe into it. Obviously the cosplay like helped in the sense of just like becoming more visible i guess but i was just doing that for fun like not out of any desire for visibility it was just it was a good time and it was a great time we're going into the cosplay in a second i want to let's walk through

the commander and then we'll talk we'll talk cosplay we'll get the cosplay um i know it's all intertwined but um exactly yeah yeah okay so so you're you start playing more and you start to get to know the people on like commander, people that ran the commander. How did that happen? Yeah, so honestly, it was just kind of organic engagement with stuff on Twitter. Like we just find YouTube videos looking for deck techs and everything and, you know, start following different content creators. And so years ago, it was still pretty, in a lot of ways, easy to access those folks or just like, you know, send a really chill to be like, hey, really appreciated this or whatever and start a conversation. And as that happened, like over time, just interacting with people, we would develop friendships and then we'd meet in real life. escalated to knowing people just from taking time and you know trying to communicate and develop

friendships and extra connections just because of the gameplay and what we were doing and you know hearing different people's takes or how they would build something it's just always so you know um uh like perspective expanding you just get so much more out of it when you involve other people in that way. And that's one of the things I really do love about the format, especially. So yeah, it was just kind of this organic overtime, like, hey, we've been talking for years on the internet. It's nice to finally meet you.

And then we would keep talking and meet people that way. And it just kept rolling into this spot of knowing people that are awesome. One of the things that, the reason I, you're a great example of this is the magic community is really this resource that I think people don't quite realize. One of the things we talk about is when you open a booster pack,

how much is inside the booster pack beyond just the cards, right? You know, that there's a lot to magic. And you're a really good example to me of somebody who like, right, you just started as a fan but as you start interacting with people, you know, before you know it you're joining things and you know exactly that's exactly what it was it was just you know just staying engaged and and wanting to learn more and and get new perspectives and get what other people were saying where they were coming from and kind

of learn from their breadth of experience in the game that when you have those kind of genuine interactions it does you know easily beget a friendship or make something more come of that where even if you're not like super close like buddy buddies you have someone else to bounce ideas off of to gain perspective from and i think in in that is kind of where it you know bubbles up into becoming more of a person of note, I guess, was just because I kept asking questions and wanting to stay engaged with people that had helped me in the past or, you know,

had been nice or I thought had great ideas. And just, yeah, it's been an incredible experience getting involved in this community, honestly. The knowledge and the passion is just incredible and unmatched in a lot of ways. And the other thing that's kind of funny is the, the community is not as big. I mean,

like it's a major, how tight knit everything that you're saying, like, um, I'll interview people and like they all are, the stories are crisscrossing cause you know, everybody's met everybody. And,

um, and that's one of the things I enjoy about the community. You know what I'm saying? It's for as much as it is a very large community. Also, it's a very tight knit community, especially the, Yeah. So we're, it's, it's a big community, but it's also as much as it is a very large community also it's a very tight-knit community especially the yeah yeah so we're it's it's a big community but it's also a niche one and we all kind of get that right there's that there's that little undercurrent of understanding like oh we're

speaking our secret language that if you play this if you're into it even if you want to get into it like there's more to it it's got it's it's got its own you know language its own culture it's everything about it and it's it's neat being a its own culture, it's everything about it. It's neat being a part of it and you realize how big it is, but then exactly like you said, it's super tight-knit. It's like, oh, well, the six degrees of separation is almost too big. You can probably get to somebody in two or three. Yeah, it's like three degrees.

It's not eight, six degrees. Okay, so here's something I always do when I ask people. We'll play this game. Ready? All right. See if you and I can match on when we met. So we'll each tell when we first met the other one and see if it's the same time. Okay. I know when I have memories of first meeting you,

but the trap I always follow is people sometimes met me before I remember meeting them. So we'll see. Right. Okay, so... Do you want me to start? Why don't I go first? Okay, go for it.

Usually it's fun because then I'm off it. I first remember meeting you at London, at Pro Tour London, which would have been... It's when the last Avenger movie came out. So I remember that was like 2018. Yes, three years ago. What? It was almost three now.

No, it had to have been 2019. No, 2019 or 2018? Maybe it was 2019. Anyway, is that right? Was that right? That is right. That was the first time we actually met. I think we'd interacted briefly, but it was not in person.

When did we interact briefly? Probably on the internet at some point. I feel like I was aware of your presence and we had said something in passing. I mean, I talk on social media all the time and stuff, so it's very easy for me to... It's kind of gone for me too, but it was absolutely London. We were sitting on that double-decker bus.

Okay, yes. Everyone else eating pizza. Yeah, we went. So there's a... Right near the venue was a double-decker bus that was a pizza restaurant. And you would go to the top part of the bus and they would serve you pizza.

The bottom part made the pizza, the top part you'd sit and eat. And we were on that bus a couple times. But yes, that's the first time I remember meeting you was on the bus. Yeah, that was it. We were making fun of... It's the exact same thing.

What's your origin? It's my origin. And I remember saying, oh, my friend introduced me to Commander. I don't think you were expecting that at all from me to Pro Tour. I mean, the thing that's really interesting to me now is there's always different origin stories.

How people get into magic just varies. And it's always the time that you were in. You know what I'm saying? Like in 2016, it makes perfect sense. Or 2014, it makes perfect sense. That's how you would get in because, you know, that is kind of where magic was sort of centered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so the other thing that we brought up i want to circle around is cosplaying

because uh this is something i know you're very into so yeah what is the origin of you cosplay not necessarily magic cosplaying but cosplaying what what was your first cosplaying experience oh my first cosplaying experience was magic oh what okay okay that's all i've ever done um i was at let me see i was uh yeah it was when i was in seattle it was in 2016 i was gonna go to emerald city comic-con and had been just like this is gonna be my first con experience like it'd be super fun and i uh was debating actually doing a character from a video game um shayla from chrono trigger because it's just this big dress and wig and And I was like, okay. And then if anybody knows it, cool. Like we definitely have something from this, you know, old SNES game. And I ended up contacting a couple of people because I am an

absolute garbage seamstress. So it turns out when I, you know, not having any like experience in it, I had no idea what kind of lead time people needed for commission. So I asked, of course, very politely when they were like, yeah, that's way too soon. I was like, I'm really sorry. I didn't realize. Thanks. So I was like, what am I supposed to do exactly? I can't sew.

And I was just looking around and honestly just Googled magic cosplay. And Christine came up and was like, oh, so someone's done this. Cool. I was looking through her stuff. I could do this. I'm crafty. I've made stuff before. I should be okay okay and just dove

off the deep end bought a bunch of stuff to make a uh lilliana vest cosplay and spent a couple months doing it i was just gonna say i was just gonna say um in my back of my head i'm like it i remember you dressed as lilliana vest or i'm, I'm sorry, I remember a Liliana Vess at Emerald City Comic Con, but that would have been before we met. So we didn't secretly meet, because I did see you as Liliana Vess at Emerald City Comic Con. Well, there you go.

I mean, there's not... At a magic event, there's a lot of magic cosplay, but at non-magic events, there's some magic cosplay, but not a lot, so I always notice it when I see it, obviously not a lot. So I always like, I always notice it when I see it, obviously. So for sure. Yeah.

So that was my, that was my very first time. Like I built that out. I was super excited. Like I spent entirely too much time on it. Just went over the top, was trying every new technique

under the sun. And yeah, were it for Emerald City, put it away and didn't look at it for a year. Didn't even think about it or do anything

else until 2017 when uh i decided to go to gp vegas and i was like okay well i guess i should first make sure it still fits and pack it up and yeah then i was wearing it down there and that's kind of when i started getting like quote unquote into it and just met a lot of the other cosplayers that were there and started you know making connections and friendships with them. And it took off after that. But the my breadth of experience with cosplay is magic and magic alone. I've never done anything else, any other IPs. And I've never, like, wanted to. It's so much fun. I have such a, there's such an amazing crew here that that's all i want to do let's talk a little bit i mean obviously i had christine on the show so people can go listen

to my christine interview but let's talk a little bit about the magic cosplaying community what yeah what is that like the shares it's always the people that don't know it what is it what's it what's it like honestly it's the i think the nice thing is that it's super chill. Like we don't have these a lot. There's just a lot of different people that do this and everybody has a different take on stuff. There's never really like the, well, you know, this person did it better. It's like, hell yeah, there's like four joyrises at this event. Let's get pictures. Let's do dumb stuff with it. Like it's, it's a really incredible community, everybody. And it's so kind and just people that you don't ever feel bad about hanging out with right like these are people that you're excited to see you like we've all developed really good friendships everybody's

super chill with each other and helps each other out like we'll give each other advice or like you know go back and forth like hey you know we don't talk much but i know you're really good at dyeing fabric and i'm actually okay at foam smithing. Like, can we trade? Can we do this? It's a really supportive community. And so, you know, hearing that a lot of other cosplay communities have some animosity or drama or big personalities that don't get along. It's just, I don't, I've never felt that way here. And I think that the people that want to get involved or that already are, are all just really cool and

i can't encourage it enough like it's nice seeing new faces well when we had events it was nice seeing new faces and all of them were people like hopping into the exhibition events we have it's it's it's just really yeah it's enriching i i'm really grateful for everyone that's in it and partakes like it's it's a solid group of group of people excuse me so what what advice would you give to somebody who's never done cosplaying but is intrigued by the idea of doing it to just do it be ready to make mistakes and that's fine um your first experience won't be perfect and that's totally okay none of ours um but just to have fun with it you can start small like it doesn't have to be the big ornate, like you don't have to make an Atraxa

like some not too smart cosplayers have done, not to, you know, call myself out or anything. Just if you find something that speaks to you and you want to, you should. That's pretty much all there is to it. Like if you want to get into it, if you want to try something, if you want to have, you know,

a challenge that you issue yourself and trying to replicate something that you have no idea how to do, consider it a gift to yourself. You get to learn new skills. You get to have an experience of failing, of succeeding and making something that speaks to you come to life.

Okay. So you talked about something that I know the audience knows what you meant. So I want to get into it. Foamsmithing. What is foamsmithing? Foamsmithing is playing with EVA foam and turning it into stuff that looks like it should be heavier than it actually is. It is a great way, if you're not wearing a respirator to ruin your lungs. It is an inexpensive way to make armor and props and kind of keep your costs down, creativity high and yeah, make things that would otherwise, you know, weigh 700 pounds because those pauldrons in steel, they're not light. So it's literally like just a large foam block. You're like carving it like you would. Generally, what a lot of people use is foam sheet. So it comes from anywhere, I want to say, from like two millimeters to about 15 millimeters thick.

And basically, you'll cut out patterns. You'll take your sharp edges, glue them together and make concave, convex, other complex shapes. and make concave, convex, other complex shapes. And over time, put all those pieces together, heat seal them, seal them, paint them, figure out how you attach them to your body in a way that lets you move because art and reality don't always turn out to mesh so well. And yeah, really just kind of make something

that's nice, lightweight. And you crafted yourself from a plain sheet of plastic into something wearable and super cool. Do you ever do any 3D printing? No, I trained in CAD when I was at my tech school for metalsmithing and jewelry making. And so I have like the basic principles as far as 3D modeling, but I haven't actually printed. One of my purchases that I want to make this year

is to finally get a 3D printer so I can like put the skills I've had in my brain for years to work so I can set something to print and like work on something else at the same time. If only for my laziness, that's why I want a 3D printer. I'm so excited about it though.

One of the neat things about getting to know a lot of the cosplay community is that there's a lot of different specialties. Like, some people are very much into the costuming.

Some people are very much into the props. Some people, like, like Mel Lee, for example, like, she loves her 3D printer and she does insane, crazy,

like, light-up things. Oh, it's so good. Her work is just next level. It's so incredible. I love seeing her stuff on Twitter. Yeah, Mel does amazing work. The other one, by the way, the one that I think blew me away the most when I saw the costume was, you've seen the Karn, right?

Yeah. I forget his name. I sadly don't know his name, but there's a guy that does, that, like, what you're talking about, he carved a giant Karn costume. Oh, yeah. And I mean, he's on stilts. I mean, it's 12 feet tall or something, right?

It is. Oh, my God. It's the most amazing thing. I met him at Vegas. I remember that. Yeah. I mean, he's 12 feet tall with the whole thing. You know what I'm saying?

He's on stilts and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. It is. As a guy, also, Karn, I co-created Karn. So it was just very exciting to see. Yeah, it was probably very exciting to see it in the flesh, or in the

foam flesh paint. So, let's talk a little bit. One of the nice things about being a, I don't know what to call you, but sort of a minor magic celebrity is... Thank you for the minor, yes. I like, okay, cool. Is you get a lot of opportunities. Like, I think both of us have been on game nights, right? celebrity is for the minor yes i like okay cool is you get a lot of opportunities like um i think

both of us have been on game nights right yes we have so what was your game night's experience like my first game night's experience i was terrified my second one um i went with the explicit purpose of just making sure i could get josh out first my goal wasn't to win it was just to beat up my friend oh oh for the real quick, game nights. I had a podcast with Josh and Jimmy. They do a video podcast where they bring people in to play. They usually play Commander. I had them once play Limited.

But normally they play Commander. And it's them and two guests. And then they'll play. And I was a guest, well, one, I mean, I've done a bunch of things with them. I was one time, technically a guest on Game Nights one time.

We did a, it was an unstable pre-release, so we played limited and not, I was like the one show we didn't play Commander, where they got a lot of people yelling at them, so. Well, yeah, and the first time was for, I want to say Ravnica,

Guilds of Ravnica, the most recent block, but the first the first time was for i want to say ravnica guilds of ravnica the most recent block but the first first set from it um and yeah i was super intimidated and of course as you know having been on it like it's not a standard game right like yeah you've got all these cameras all these lights everything's slowed down because maybe you have to change like how you set something down on the board it's it's very nerve-wracking experience it is not the normal like gameplay experience so of course the entire time you're worried about how you're going to misplay but you're also trying to make sure you're listening to all of josh's cues so you're facing the right direction and you put the card down the correct way and then you said the line audibly instead of mumbling like you have marbles in your mouth and so it was it was

really fun and i felt a little off kilter and I feel like my gameplay kind of reflected that, but that's just what happens. And sometimes you just don't get the draws in Commander. It's just what happens. The second time, you and I actually ended up chatting a little bit beforehand. Yes. And you, I think, messaged me because you found out I was playing Squirrel. Oh, right, right, right, right.

You were doing... Unsanctioned. Right, Unsanctioned came out, and they did an Unsanctioned show where they were playing Commander and I heard you were playing A Cornelia. So I called you with advice for A Cornelia, so... You sure did. You were like,

are you writing this? What about this? And I was like, here's everything I've got. If it's got a squirrel in the yard, I'm writing it. That was a good one. Yeah, so, yeah,

Game Nights was super sweet. It was definitely an experience. It's, I think, a really nice way that they've made Commander, you know, accessible and kind of like something that you can feel okay jumping into and see what it's like. Well, the neat thing about it is, from an audience perspective,

it does a great job of walking through everything. But when you shoot it, you're correct. It's like, I play a grizzly bear, and then Josh is like, okay, can you play the grizzly bear again, but please put it here and not there? And okay, and then you do it again. And he goes, okay, can you do it, you're correct. It's like, I play a grizzly bear, and then Josh is like, okay, can you play the grizzly bear again, but please put it here and not there, and okay, and then you do it again, and he goes, okay, can you do it again, but this time say I'm playing grizzly bear.

But what you see on the camera that takes whatever, you know, 20 minutes, is like all day long. And then you're doing interviews afterwards, so you can talk about when I played that, I was thinking about this. Yeah, I feel like that was the most nerve-wracking part, is trying to go back through everything and remember what I was thinking about this. Yeah, I feel like that was the most nerve-wracking part is trying to go back through everything and remember what was on the play.

They take notes of everything and they remind you of what you did. Exactly, which is really helpful, but at the same time I was like, wait, did I make that play? I was just so nervous and so caught up in listening to the cues. I just completely forgot what I was actually playing. So hearing it back, I was like, that was dumb.

Why did I do that so if you um were you on have you done any of the pre-pre-releases yes i was on throne of eldraine's pre-pre-release so how was it how'd you find the pre-pre-release it was so much fun oh i got absolutely stomped and i had the best time it was incredible and eldraine was a really fun set to to play around with like just having so many you know new mechanics new things that were going on it was you know obviously I didn't I never mind losing I play commander I don't have a win-loss record my losses are astronomical compared to the wins anyway but uh being on the the PPR was yeah a really incredible experience being able to just kind of get thrown into it like that.

And then be on display of like, let's see what I can figure out. Let's hope it works. It was great. Yeah, I had an amazing time doing that. Yeah, it was fun. I enjoyed my time there. Although you probably weren't dressed up like an animal. I was dressed up like Queen of Ice.

I was wearing a costume. Okay, you did a costume. Okay. They had me dressed in a squirrel costume. So I was dressed like a squirrel for some portion of my... That kind of makes sense. I was wearing a costume. Okay, you did a costume. Okay. They had me dressed in a squirrel costume, so I was dressed like a squirrel for some portion of my... That kind of makes sense.

I mean... The funny thing about that is they didn't ask me. They just, like, I show up, they go, we have a squirrel costume and we wear a squirrel costume. I'm like, oh, okay, sure.

They had you. As soon as you walked into the moon base, they knew. They knew. So any other... I mean, we're almost... I'm almost at my desk here.

Any other things of magic before we wrap up? Any other things that you've had a chance to do that are sort of fun memories? I think, you know, being able to travel and go to the GPs and meet so many people has been really incredible and kind of a pretty awesome thing that I've been able to do in my life. Uh, just seeing the kind of community that can,

you know, come up from this, like every, every community has some some words and things that we would like to change or make better. But I feel like overwhelmingly, and especially in person, um, people are really kind. They just want to, you know, share this, this game, this passion, this kind just want to you know share this this game this passion this kind of like you know fostered love that we've made for it with other people and and have cool experiences do neat stuff show them show off what their prowess is with their decks and it's it's just been really fulfilling it's been nice meeting so many people it's been nice having these

experiences and trying to bring you know something cool and positive and enjoyable into other people's lives and being able to be a part of that in whatever way I can is something I appreciate and enjoy. what would have happened had I, you know, started on Sooner. But for everything the game has given me personally, I just appreciate it so much. And I'm really grateful for the community and the opportunities that have come from it. Yeah, actually, one thing we didn't really get into was travel, right? Yeah. One of the things that, for example, that is,

there's a lot of opportunities with magic, but one of them is, hey, if you like to travel, there are magic events going on all the time, all over the place. And one of the fun things I know, I mean, I don't do as much traveling, but like when I do travel, it's like, I go to some city that may or may not have been to before

and then see lots of people that I know. So, you know, it's. It's like the best organized by somebody else travel plans. If you have like a bunch of your friends showing up, it's like, we've never been to this city, but we didn't have to do any of the thinking. We just got a hotel room and now we have stuff to do and let's go. Can't lose there.

So how many, uh, how many cities roughly do you think you've visited for magic? Oh goodness. To the power of 10. I mean like, like how many are not the power, but I want to say

upwards of 20 upwards of 20 okay for sure yeah yeah yeah every once in a while I'll sit down

and count all the cities I've visited and it gets kind of nutty so anyway it's one of the things I do enjoy about magic is the travel aspect

the fact that not only can I do this but I can go see the world that's really cool and honestly I think one of my favorite things

was I went to I lived in Antwerp in Belgium for a little while doing trade school stuff. And when I was there, Rivals of Ixalan came out and it turns out there was an LGS right by my apartment. And I was like, you know what? I at least have something in common. And I think at least some of the cards might be in English. If they're in French, I'll be okay.

Cause I know that one too. And no friends in the city, no nothing. I signed up for the pre-release and went down to the LGS and played games with a bunch of people that I'd never met and had a bunch of new friendships. And all of a sudden, I had friends in that town that I could play Commander with, with the one deck I brought with me, just in case.

It was on my pre-release card. It was really nice having a common thread that I could in a completely strange and new place to me find people connect with people and make some friendships and have relationships now to this day with those same folks I'm insanely

grateful for that kind of foot in the door basically anywhere I go it is one of the cool parts. I mean, one of the things today, one of my sort of, hopefully, the takeaways from today's interview is the community of magic and all the opportunities and the things and the people

and, you know, I mean, we talked about cosplay today, but it's not even necessarily cosplay. There's all these niches of things that you might enjoy that find the thing that you enjoy, find the format you enjoy, find the activities you enjoy, find the activities you enjoy. And there are people who also like that

and you can get together with them around the world, basically. And so it's pretty cool. It's amazing. So anyway, I'm now at my desk. So we all know what that means.

It means it's the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. But Olivia, I want to thank you for joining me today.

Thanks so much for having me, Mark. This was a pleasure. This was a lot of fun. So anyway, guys, I'll see you all next time.