Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #849: Future Sight with Mike Turian

Episode Date: July 9, 2021

I sit down with R&D member Mike Turian to talk about the making of Future Sight.

I'm not pulling out of the driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for another drive to work. Coronavirus edition. Okay, so I've been using my time at home to do interviews and talking to R&D folks past and present to talk about sets we made together. So today I have Mike Turian and we're going to talk about Future Sight. So hey, Mike. Hey, Mark. The future is here. We're, I think, in a year, it'll be 15 years since Future Sight came out. I know. We did it. We made it into the future together. Man, your kids get old.

It makes you feel old. Okay, so just so the audience knows, I was the lead designer for Future Sight. Mike was the lead developer for Future Sight. So we were the two main hands in forming the Future Sight set. So what is your earliest memory of Future Sight? What do you remember? Like when you were first, when I first told you about it, what is your earliest memory? Well, you know, for me, one of the biggest early memories I had of the set was just this was my first lead uh on a set right so you know i i had joined uh magic r&d around the time uh like i i think that saviors of

kamigawa was just being finished up internally when i joined and then i got to be on like the guild pack team and another a number of other teams the cold snap team uh but so for me future sight was both my first lead and then also the set that was about something so you know fantastically different right uh I remember going after I found out that I was going to be leading future sight and I was super excited and you know like like watching the Back to the Future series of movies right of like oh because you know one of the big things was what does it mean to be doing something in the present that's about the future and so you know and I remember us having a lot of conversations in that in that space too but but those were some of my early memories.

I mean, one of the big challenges of Future Sight is, and this came up a lot, is if we make it now, it's the present. The cards exist now. How exactly does it represent the future? And that was very hard for people to wrap their minds around. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I had been on the planar chaos team also and so i had as part of that i sort of got this early take on okay you know what what does an alternate present mean um and then thinking about how does that how does that end up impacting the future so you know

when you gave me the original file, like back in the day when there was design and development, we had a period called Divine, right? And so during that, which of course is the blending of design and development, and just reading through the cards and figuring out, like, which of these cards represent the the future which of the cards are the present right because you know we had this um this split of cards that were like supposed to be set uh in a time spiral future site and then there was the future site piece of it right where hey

this was the future sheet and so so, you know, I remember us going back and forth a lot with conversations about what represented the future and what, you know, where to draw that line. Yeah, the thing that I ended up, the thing I really pushed was, to me, the solution to this problem was nostalgia. And what I meant by that was, we were doing past, present, and future, you, we were doing past, present, and future. Past, alternate, present, and future. And then in each case, nostalgia really drove what that meant.

So for future, what I wanted is, it is things that you kind of knew, but that implied something that you hadn't seen yet. Like, for example, we had a vertical cycle of morph cards that weren't creatures. Like there was a land and an enchantment and an artifact right and so the reason that felt very future to me was well you've seen morph before right it's something you understand but you haven't seen non-creature morph so that felt like oh i recognize it but i know it's not something I've seen, so that made it feel more futurish.

Like, one day they'll do that. Right, right. Yeah, definitely playing on mechanics that were successful mechanics, and then finding twists on them, right? Like, you know, in this Morph example, oh, I think Zoetta Cavern, right, was the land. Yeah. this morph example oh i think zoetic cavern right was the land yeah um and it's like oh okay that's that's something that clearly can end up in the future because it's something that hey we knew we were going to go back to morph and so it was plausible that when we went back the twist would be um things that morphed it you know that, that surprise, I'm not a creature, I'm a land!

And there were other, you know, there were other good examples of this, right? I think there's, like, I think it's Luminescent Angel is the name. I might be getting the name. It's funny, names always escape you, even on

cards you work on. There's the 3-3 flyer that's an enchantment creature it's called what's it called Lucent Luminid thank you it's 3-3 flying elemental enchantment creature elemental

right and so that's another great example of hey this is just combining things that could happen, right? And of course, we played that up a lot when we visited Theros. And so those cards were great. And also, too, one of the things I loved about those cards is one of the things with Future Sight is there's a lot of mechanics. There's a lot going on, right? A lot.

A lot. A lot. A lot. I mean, I don't know if this is entirely precise, but I remember at one point being like, oh, will Future Sight double the number of keyword mechanics in Magic? Right? Like, just the Future Sight set. Yeah, the stat we talked about was, before Future Sight, it was something like, there was like 56 keywords in Magic before Future Sight,

and in Future Sight was like 49 keyword mechanics. You know, it didn't quite double, but I mean, it was like, it was, you know, and all of, this set had as many mechanics as all of Magic up to this point, almost, you know. Right. I mean, so, I mean, yeah, so clearly, clearly there were a lot of mechanics, but being able to tap into some of the known i think it's one of the things that made time spiral just such a fan favorite at the time was that hey it was calling back you know that that tap into nostalgia right and then those twists make it a lot of fun and then from my standpoint when i was looking to add some simplicity um having cards that you knew that you know with these small twists that that was great right so at least then if you were experienced with magic you you had a

good basis of knowledge so real quickly you said something that is not 100 true so i'm going to correct you on the spot here um this was not a popular set overall. It was a popular set among the very enfranchised players. I used to joke it was our art house set. Like, it got great reviews, meaning the people that really knew Magic loved it. But the average person, it was just over their head. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I intended to say popular with the, you know, like you said, that enfranchised audience right not uh i would right

because clear because clearly if you're if you're new to magic right like nostalgia isn't gonna connect with you as much and a set that has uh i think you said 49 keyword mechanics right that's just that's just a lot to be walking into yeah i mean, I think what happened was that if you already had a good... Like, the whole Time Spiral block, if you already had a good base of understanding magic and its mechanics, it was a real fun riff on what it was. But if you weren't already familiar with them,

it was just overload. You know? Like, if you already understand Morph, hey, here's the first ever land Morph. That's cool. But if you've never seen Morph before, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's, you know, a morph land and a morph enchantment and a morph artifact are all kind of confusing if you haven't already seen morph. Right, right.

Well, and I think going back to sort of those, you know, when we're talking about, like, time travel time travel movies right and what it does in media a lot of the way that those work is they play on very common tropes right and that's how they get you into the story right if just like oh you know just these very relatable connectable uh uh scenes and then then they introduced the twist where with magic you know we couldn't give you a quick primer on the 12 000 cards that existed or whatever the number was at the time like that just that just wasn't possible but if you already had that then you really got to to you know uh geek out over just all all of these awesome cards and i i think one of the things that was so fun for fans of Future Sight was speculating on, hey, which of these cards actually do reveal the future, right?

Which ones are places that magic really will be going? And I was always so proud about how many, whenever that actually came to light. Well, let's talk about that a little bit. The Future Sifted Sheet. So the premise of this sheet, as was pitched, was these are cards from potential magic futures. We didn't promise all of them were from this timeline, if you will. But these are all things that are from potential futures.

And some of the cards was us doing things we really, really planned to do. Some of it was us doing things we thought we might do. And some of us were just messing around. We had no intent of ever doing it. But, you know, so what is your memory of making the future shifted sheet? Well, so, you know, there were cards like Gold Meadow Lookout, right, that make a, it's a 2- two for four mana and it it's a spell shaper so one tap discard a card you get a one one uh white kithkin soldier that's a tapper right it's a gold medal hair a gold medal harrier which was it by the way a name of a card you've never seen

before yes yes that right it makes it made a gold medal harrier but we knew that we were going to uh lorwyn right and we knew that kithkin were going to be a thing in lorwyn and so it was um so like a card like that there was just this like very direct connection where we actually went and planned out like oh this is this is what's going to happen, right? But then... Wait, wait, I just want to tell a quick, funny story about Gold Medal Lookout. So it's part of a cycle.

So there is five cards in the set that tap, that they're all spell shapers, and you tap and discard a card to make a copy of an existing magic card. Like, the green one made Llanowar Elves, I believe. And what happened was we couldn't find a good one for white. And so we came up with

the clever idea of, well, what if this is our throw-forward card? What if it made a card from the future? Because we couldn't find a good card from the path that we liked. And this was our creative solution to solving that problem. Yes, yeah. And so, right, I think

the green Llanowar Mentor makes solution to solving that problem. Yes, yeah, and so right, I think the green Lenore Mentor makes an elf druid named Lenore Elves, right? So once again, that's tapping the nostalgia of it, but the gold meta

lookout is tapping into the future. So there were fun cards like that i remember working a lot of course being um one of the things that developers uh now known as set designers spend a ton of time on are the mana bases in the lands right and so you know working on a card like um horizon canopy right and what the, and what these future lands could look like, that was a lot of fun because, you know, one of the things with lands is we almost always do them in complete cycles, right? And here, the way we did the complete cycle was we got to customize each land so that it actually kind of worked a little bit better

for the colors that it offered and like would it actually end up being a complete cycle or not um that that i didn't know at the time right but what we did get to do is we got to design um some some awesome dual lands that paid off well. Like, right, for Horizon Canopy, the fact that you're paying a life every time you tap it, clearly that's some downside. But, you know, white and green are the colors that gain life the best in Magic. So it's just a land that works a little bit better for...

Let me, once again, for people that don't know this, on the bonus sheet, on the future shifter sheet, we made a cycle of lands, so allied, colored, dual lands, but each land was a different land that hinted at a different cycle of lands. So like Horizon Canopy was tap,

pay one life, add green or white tree mana pool, and then one tap, sacrifice Horizon Canopy, draw a card. And the idea was, that was the green-white one, but hey, we could one day maybe make that cycle, you know, but right now

you're only getting the green-white one. So do you remember, so River of Tears, I want to talk about River of Tears for a second, just as a fun story here. So River of Tears is tap, add blue to your mana pool if you play the land this turn, add black to your mana pool instead. I'm sorry, add blue to your mana pool if you play the land this turn, add black instead. So it's either blue or black, depending on whether you play a land this turn, add black to your mana pool instead. I'm sorry, add blue to your mana pool if you played a land this turn,

add black instead. So it was either blue or black, depending on whether you played a land. Do you remember what I turned over? Because this isn't the card I originally turned over. I did design River of Tears, but do you remember the original card? I remember liking River, for one. No, it was 15 years ago. I have no memory of the cards.

I mean, besides, you know, like popular stories like Tarmogoyf, right? Like, there's a few cards where it's like, oh, yes, this is specifically how it changed. But no, what did you turn over originally? The original version of the blue-black was, it gave you a poison when you tapped it. It was a poison you a poison when you tapped it. It was a poison to a land. And so, I think there was two. One version was you got poison if you got colored mana,

and one version is you got poison regardless of what... You had no option of a colorless that didn't give you poison. I think we had both versions. The developers did not like poison to a land just because it required a lot of tracking of poison and wouldn't matter most of the time. Because it was a resource that you could just put in decks that didn't care, and so it wouldn't come up. And so I was asked to redesign it, so I redesigned River of Tears. I'm very proud of the design of River of Tears, in that it's a really cool blue-black card in that, like, you have some control,

blue or black, it was kind of cool, but it would make a horrible dual land cycle because it's very complex to track what the hell's going on. Yes, and it's funny. So, for one, when you mentioned the Poison dual land, I do now recall this, and I had the same thoughts in my head before you stated them out loud of, right,

between the tracking and the fact that I mean you know one of the things that Magic R&D was very concerned about was like making strictly betters right and so like while that is not strictly better than anything of course it certainly is very much in the

space of look you get to use this nine times for essentially free right in the vast vast majority of games it's funny because um a grove of the burn willows right was the one where it actually isn't the best suited to the color pair right uh it's you get to tap for a colorless but if you tap for red or green you give your opponent a life however because of you know magic cards that came out afterwards, Punishing Fire,

it actually became quite a good red-green card as it let you loop the two-damage spell by giving your opponent a life. So it's one of those things. You never sort of know where these will go. You know, another one, when we're talking about these cards, Boldware Intimidator, right? know where these will go uh you know another one uh when we're talking about these cards a boldware

intimidator right um it's a five five with cowards can't block warriors uh so that was on uh the future sheet and of course there the the fun thing is as cowards as a creature type wasn't uh it didn't exist it didn't exist right so that that's, it's so, and I remember too, that was one when we were talking about it. It was like, you know, it's one of those ones where like you and the other designers brainstormed this like giant list of, okay, what is this sentence going to say that really captures something but um so we eventually came up with cowards can't block warriors which of course is uh totally beloved and it was great because then when i was working on uh morning tide i believe it was right it had a warrior theme and and so it's like oh great i have thrown forward a card to myself right just totally totally unintentionally uh but it was one of those happy things because you know i mean i got to lead a number of sets after future site and anytime i was leading a set one i would always just do this

future site pass of okay let me go through this list of cards and see, hey, are there any good matches? And Bouldware Intimidator came up, and, you know, it's been awesome since. So Strixhaven had Grinning Ingus, for example, right? I mean, Grinning Ingus had been repeated in repeat products, but in a standard set green ingus shows up for the first time in strixhaven so right uh 15 years later here's a card off the

you know here's the future shift card off the future shift to cheat so it is true we always look i mean every i know every every lead always goes and does that future say pass them oh is there a card from the future i could i could put here yeah and so and and just you know so the audience follows like a lot a lot it's like the the the number of things that have to line up perfectly because you know like when we pick the creative on the card a lot of times it's using a word or you know and it wants to feel like even though it was in future site it wanted to feel like from a future universe right but so to get that future universe to actually line up with the right so the worlds that we're creating now like that alignment is another another piece

that has to work out as well so let me have a perfect example of this. So there's a card called Ghostfire. It's two and a red, instant. Ghostfire is colorless. Ghostfire deals three damage to target creature or player. So it's a card, and the flavor text is, only those gifted with the Eye of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, can see his fiery breath. Now, when that flavor text was written, Ugin didn't exist.

There was no Ugin. That is the inspiration for Ugin existing, is that line of flavor text. So anyway, we're doing Tarkir. We're going back to Tarkir. Ugin is the main part of it. Devoid, Color of Spells, is the main part of it. And we're like, okay, we have to do Ghostfire.

And then, as we're in the middle of doing it, the creator says, oh, but Devoid is all Eldrazi. It all Eldrazi. It's Eldrazi. This isn't Eldrazi. This specifically is Ugin magic.

And we're not, you know, it doesn't fit. Like, we couldn't put a good, it's a set that seemed like it would be the perfect fit for it, but creatively it didn't fit. And this has happened a lot, where we've had things that seem like they'd fit. Like, I know when we did Delve, we were trying to do a Delve card in Kansatark here. And, like, for stupid reasons, none of the Delve cards quite fit, you know.

You couldn't bring in Tombstalker? Well, at the time, they weren't doing demons, I think. Like, demons weren't part of the world. And then, at the last minute, they added demons and no one thought to go back and go, wait a minute, wait a minute, we have a demon for you. Right. So, okay, I want to talk about, there's a future shift of card I want to talk about

because there's a fun story here. I want to talk about Tarmogoyf. Oh. Okay, so Tarmogoyf, for those who don't know, it's a very famous card. It's one and a green for a Lurgoyf. Star plus one or one plus star. Tarmogoyf's power is equal to the number of card types among cards in all graveyards,

and its toughness is equal to that number plus one. And then in reminder text it said, the card types are Artifact, Creature, Enchantment, Instant, Land, Planeswalker, Sorcery, and Tribal. Which might not sound like that crazy a thing, except neither tribal nor planeswalker was yet a card type. And so the reason we made Tarmogoy

specifically was that joke of we're going to list the card types and it's going to list card types that don't exist. That was the plan. And in fact, we were going to do planeswalkers in this very set. We're going to have three plans. I think we're going to have a blue, in this very set. We were going to have three planeswalkers. I think we were going to have a blue, a green, and a black planeswalker was the plan.

And we were working really hard at designing them. And it wasn't quite, like, we weren't quite done. And so we decided that we weren't going to put planeswalkers in. So do you want to pick up the story from us not putting the Planeswalkers in? Well, so, right. So we're not putting the Planeswalkers in. And eventually, of course, they end up being introduced in Lorwyn. But because of that, we have a gap, right?

Anytime you take a card out, right? I think it was Garak at the time, although he probably wasn't called Garrick in the playtesting world, I forget. Even like Fomari or something, I don't know the different name. Yeah. And so one of the things, it's like, okay, great, we have this gap.

A card that had been previously cut from the set was Tarmogoyf, right? And I reintroduced him into the file, but I think that when I did that, I think I both cut off a mana cost, right? I think the design had handed it over at 2G,

and added a toughness. It was a star star. Right, we made him 2G star star. And here's the funny thing. I did star star because I hate star star plus one. I'm like, we're going to correct this. Star star. Let's math, you know.

Yeah, and so I must have gone back to, I mean, so I must have gone back to the original Lurgoyf, right, which was also a star star plus one. And because it's not like I was, like, reactivating the design record or anything, I was just retyping what was in there. And so while I'm sure I copy-pasted the rules text, the power toughness, I just went by. And so Tarmogoyf became a star, star plus one. Now, you know, we did play Tarmogoyf a lot. And I remember talking about him with a number of the other developers because I knew I was making Tarmogoyf powerful. I didn't realize how powerful, of course. But, you know, to me, a couple of things I loved about Tarmogoyf was, one, green was always the color that was supposed to have the best creatures, right? And, you know, it's just like,

hey, it's just a creature on the ground. It's like, yes, he's going to have some good stats on occasion. But I thought that, you know, he dies to to sorts to plowshares terror every every removal spell he has no protection from anything and and the second the second piece of it was i love the fact that it made you think about how you were building your deck just in a totally new way right i know now probably 15 years uh coming up on 15 years later people are like well it's solved there's right but it at the time it was oh here's a new puzzle that you just have never thought about uh in deck building magic so uh because of all those reasons he got to stay with his uh that extra toughness that you hate uh apparently and uh you know he's become one of the most

powerful creatures of all time. Yeah, one of the things that's really interesting looking back at Future Sight is we were making a lot of guesses, like not just us, the creative team as well. So here's another, I'll give you an example of where we were trying to hint at something

and then messed it up by not, like... So the card was... Where is it? Sarcomite Mirror. So Sarcomite Mirror is two and a blue, two, one. It's an artifact creature. It's a mirror. And it says

two Sarcomite Mirror gains flying until end of turn. Two Sacrifice Sarcomite Mirror draw a card. So we knew when we went to Mirrodin, in the originalifice Sucker by Mirrodra a card. So, we knew when we went to Mirrodin, in the original time we went to Mirrodin, we had planted the seeds for the return to Mirrodin where the Phyrexians attack.

Like, we had planned that all ahead of time. And so, this card was meant to be a tease of that, right? It was meant to be, it was the creative team we had never made a colored artifact, but this was the first colored artifact. We had never made a colored artifact before.

So the idea was, oh, colored artifacts might be a perfect thing for our return to Mirrodin, because we know the Frexians will be there in any way. So we were, like, setting ourselves up. Then, I'm working on Shards of Alara, and I'm in charge of a mini-team for Esper,

which was the blue, white, black-centered shard. And Mark Gottlieb came up with the idea of what if all the creatures in this world were artifact creatures? Which was really, I mean, because the whole idea was they kept upgrading themselves. And it was a really cool idea, and it was clean, and it was simple, but mean, because the whole idea was they kept upgrading themselves. And it was a really cool idea. It was clean and it was simple. But it required making colored artifacts.

And so we did it there. So when we got back to Skarsgården, we didn't want to repeat that. So, like, Sarcomate Myr didn't quite work because we'd used that thing that we were teasing before we got there. And so it's very fun when I look back. There's a lot of real honest attempts by both the mechanical side of things and the creative side of things to really, really hint

where we were going. We teased Khan of Tarkir. We teased Theros. Not that they all ended up getting named what we teased, but we you can see we're saying, one day we'll do a Greek mythology set. One day we'll do, like, we were teasing things that we thought we were going to do. And mechanic, I was teasing mechanics I thought some day we were doing.

The earliest version of Devotion, which was called, I mean, it wasn't called Chroma here, but Chroma was the first version of it. Like, we teased that here. Anyway, it's very funny looking at FutureSight about how much R&D was really trying to give hints. Now, hidden around all the hints were things that were crazy we weren't planning to do. So the audience didn't know exactly what was real from what was not real, but...

Well, and the funny thing to me is, is for all the times that we were, like, intentionally going about putting hints in, like, there's cards like Steamflugger Boss, which had in my mind, we had no intention of ever doing Steamflugger Boss.

Let me read Steamflugger Boss real quick for the audience who doesn't know it. Three and a red, three, three, creature, Goblin Rigger. Rigger didn't exist at the time. Other Rigger creatures you control get plus one, plus oh, and have haste. If a Rigger you Rigger didn't exist at the time, other Rigger creatures you control get plus one plus oh and have haste. If a Rigger you control would assemble a contraption, it assembles two contraptions instead. Yeah, and importantly

they're also, contraptions weren't a thing. Right, it meant nothing. There weren't contraptions, right? And so we didn't know what assembling a single contraption meant, let alone two, yet when you... And so it had no...

It wasn't passing it forward to anything intentionally, yet you really plugged into that when you did Unstable. Real quickly, there's a funny story here. Do you know what caused, what was the impetus that made the audience want us to make

contraptions? No, I..., was it not Steam Flogger Boss? No, I mean, what Steam Flogger, but Aaron Forsythe had a column at the time, and Aaron admitted in the column that we had no plans to make Steam Flogger Boss. Like, it was totally a joke, we're never going to make it,

and, like, he threw the gauntlet down, and the public was like, well, if you're never going to make it, then clearly that's what we want you to do yeah right and so it you know to me it's just so funny of all the you know like you're talking about sarcoma here and how it was like oh look you know there was some good planning intentionality get steam flogger boss just um just came to be and created contraptions, which were a lot of fun and unstable. By the way, the amount of hours spent of me trying to figure out what... Because I first tried to do it in Blackboard. I tried to make contraptions in Blackboard,

and it ended up being something that was just very hard to do. So Silver Border gave me some more flexibility to do them, but it was... Yeah, I mean, it is really weird to see where Future Sight... Like, Future Sight definitely did a lot of directionality and did a lot of things that we would later pay off. I mean, there's no set with more throw-forwards than Future Sight. Yeah, and I know we've been talking a lot about the cards here, but also we saw there was a new frame design for the future side cards. Not that we've gone back to that design,

but also the full art vanilla creatures, right? There's just been a lot of things that we learned that we then would later tap into as we worked on Magic. I'll admit, I'm shocked we've not done full art creatures. Like, vanilla creatures. I always thought that was an easy throw forward

that we would just do, and I don't think we've done that yet. Yeah, well, you know what? The great news is we are still writing the future, even now. Right? I mean, it we are still writing the future. That is true. Even now, right? I mean, it's one of the awesome things about Magic is, you know, we have so many opportunities to create, you know, fun, exciting cards and to revisit things that our fans and players have loved for so long.

Yeah, and once again, I think there's more. The future side has not given up all its goodies yet. Like I said, Strixhaven just printed a card, so it is something we keep looking at, and I have some eye on some cards that I would like to, that maybe would make sense in Future Sight, so I'm

always looking out for ways to get Future Sight back, so. Yeah, I'll tell you, the one that I was most surprised that hasn't come to me yet, and I don't even, I don't, maybe this isn't some Future future set somewhere, I don't think it is though, Yixla Jailer. It's the 1B, 2, 1, it's a zombie wizard. Cards in graveyards lose all abilities.

To me, I think that was a card, I remember when I was working on sets, I would always be like, oh, this will be a great set. It offers some good graveyard hate which is something uh that uh developers that designers are always looking for but the the creative there just hasn't uh hasn't matched up um and so i know i was never successful getting it so that's that's i'll put it down as that's my prediction for it it has been in design files by the way's my prediction for It has been in design files by the way. Ixlid Jailer has been in design files. It's never made it to print, but it's been in

design files. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's for that same reason of, hey, it's a really good straightforward card. But yeah, that to me was, you know, back when we were talking about creative matches, that was one. So, I'm almost to my desk here,

so I've got to wrap up, but I do have one last question for you. How much would you like to see a future Sight 2? Oh, man. I absolutely would love to see a future Sight 2. I don't know if that's

my nostalgia for it, or I think the thing about it is, you know, sets like Future Sight, when you're working on Unstable, right? When we're doing these sets that are just out there, it just pushes us outside the box, right? And I think that that is such a valuable space for Magic and for our players to just say, OK, what does this look like? What is so different? And that really taps into just this awesome, awesome design space that really can pay off with some fun cards.

that really can pay off with some fun cards. And, you know, I think Future Sight was a big success in terms of delivering on the future, right? It's held up pretty well over the course of time. So I'm a big fan of Future Sight, too. You know, I look, maybe you already have a design file you're working on. Who knows? Who knows? Well, it's funny, when I first pitched Modern Horizons, my pitch was as a future Site 2.

That was my original pitch for it. And then Ethan sort of pitched Time Spiral 2 to kind of morph together a little bit. But anyway, I hold out hope one day we'll do a supplemental set. I mean, we have to make it happen, but I would love to see it happen someday because i i do have a lot of fond memories of future site one so i would love one day to have a future site two yeah i think that'd be awesome i think that you know when i look at modern horizons 2 and modern heights that they also

have tapped into some of that you know that blending, we're going to put these two mechanics together in a way they haven't been experienced before, and a lot of times that's just like mixing peanut butter and chocolate of like, oh, wow, this is delicious, this is amazing, I can't believe they did that, so I think it'd be a great opportunity.

As a sign that you and I barely tapped into Future Sight, like mix and match was a whole theme of Future Sight that we didn't even talk about today, which, obviously, Modern Horizons 2 played into. This is the kind of set that you and I could talk for many, many times, because, like, we just touched, we really spent a lot of time today on the Future Shifted stuff.

There's a whole other aspect to the set we didn't touch into, so this is a very complex set with a lot going on. Yeah, right. I mean, like, there's the cards, like, Slaughter Pact that are at the beginning of your next upkeep, pay mana or you lose the game. Right, I remember that cycle.

Grandeur. There's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot. A lot tucked in. There's a lot. Anyway, guys, I can see my desk, so we all know what that means. It means it's the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for being with us today.

Thanks, Mark. I look forward to, you know, 15 years when we can talk about the future site again. Okay. Thanks, Mike. And all of you, I'll see you next time. Bye-bye.