Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - #935: Darksteel

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

This is the second of a three-part series looking at the design of original Mirrodin block.

I'm pulling out the parking lot. We all know what that means. A, I dropped my son off at school, but B, it's time for drive to work. Okay, so today I'm going to continue. I've been telling the story of the original Mirrodin block. So last time I talked about original Mirrodin. So today I'm talking about Dark Steel. So Dark Steel was the second set. So the Mirrodin block, which was codenamed Bacon, Lettuce, and Tomato. So today is lettuce. So it was a large set and then two small sets. So the large set was 306 cards and both of the small sets were 165 cards. 55 commons, 55 uncommons, 55 rares. This predates Mythic Rare as a thing. So with this set, we had shifted 44 cards out of the large set

to put 22 cards each in the small set. So this set's a little bit bigger. I think it was 143. And then as of the set, the small sets became 165. Just to make the small sets a little bigger. Okay, so... Now now just a little sort of education about back when we did blocks um one of the things that evolved over time was like before for example before i became head designer uh like the early early days of blocks we would

make the first set in the block and then we'd'd kind of, like, you know, leave room for mechanics to grow and things, but, like, we didn't really worry about the second and third block set, sorry, we didn't care about the second and third set in the block much, we just kind of made stuff, and then, like, eh, they'll figure it out. And we would do the occasional throw forward, but one of the things when I took over as head designer, so I became head designer like in the middle of Kamigawa block, although that was already sort of in motion. So the first block that I really sort of got to build was Ravnica block. And so one of the things that was a big deal to me was trying to have a little more sense of what the blocks were about. But this is before

I did not actually take over head designer until this is Mirren block to the middle of the next block, which is Kamigawa. So there's little hints and seeds you'll see of me trying to set up a little bit of the idea of larger block planning.

Now once again, this wasn't, I wasn't the head designer yet. So I led Mirrodin and I led Fifth Dawn. So I led two of the three sets. The middle set, Dark Steel, was actually led by Bill Rose, who at the time was the head designer and now is the VP of R&D. So the design team was Bill, Tyler Bielman, Brian Schneider, and myself. Okay, so the set came out February 6, 2004, which means we were working on it 2002, 2003.

Okay, so the big question was, we had sort of established this metal world, you know, that's mirrored in. So we knew, for example, the key to the block strategy at the time was you do something in the first set, the second set expands upon it, introduces one or two new things, and then on the third set, we'll sort of cap it off. As we get to when we get to the third set, there was a bunch of problems the third set had to solve. We'll get to that in my next podcast.

So Darksteel, I don't think we really understood when we were making Darksteel how broken Mirrodin was. We would figure that out before we were... Fifth Dawn, we knew that by the time we were working on Fifth Dawn somewhat. But in Darksteel, we really didn't. So the idea essentially was, okay, we've established something. It's an artifact block. It, you know, mostly the job of the small set at the time would be, okay, we want to build on what we did and we want to introduce a few new things that just chain things up a little bit. So let's start with the main new mechanic. So one

of the things that Bill asked was, he said, okay we want to make something cool and new, what's a cool thing we could do with artifacts that we haven't done? So one of the things I said is, I went and I said, okay what do people not like about artifacts? Like, if you're playing an artifact deck or playing artifacts, what is frustrating? What is, you know, what is annoying that you, how can we, you know, what is the thing that's most upsetting? And I said, okay, well, the thing that's most upsetting is you play an artifact and your opponent destroys them. They destroy your artifact.

So I was like, okay, well, what if it was hard to destroy the artifact? And so sometimes when you're doing design, one of the techniques is you want to kind of start strong, start at the extreme, and then what you'll find is as you play, if it's too much, you can lessen it. But sometimes, as will be the case here, the strong idea ends up being the right idea. So basically, I said, okay, I don't want you destroying my artifacts.

Well, what if we made things that were indestructible? And what that meant by that was they could not be destroyed. Anything in the game that would try to destroy them wouldn't be able to destroy them. So that meant, for example, any destruction effect just wouldn't work. And anything in the game that would destroy them, such as dying in combat, for example, wouldn't destroy them. So it sort of said, okay, I have these artifacts that are just really hard to get rid of. And I started, like, once again, I started with the extreme version. Okay, they're truly indestructible.

You cannot destroy them. There is no way to destroy these things. And at first blush, that felt kind of, you know, nutty. Oh, I just can't destroy them? But what we found when we played with them was a couple things. One is there are ways in the game

that you can deal with them. For one, exiling, for example. If you exile it, you're not destroying it, you're exiling. And so that was one way to deal with an indestructible thing. And the other was, if it was a creature, if you gave it minus n minus n, where n is equal to or greater than its toughness,

the game basically couldn't keep it alive. You know, it's a static ability that would just kill it, basically. So, what we found was, we could the game basically couldn't keep it alive. It's a static ability that would just kill it, basically. So what we found was we could make indestructible artifacts, and there would be answers. We could build answers in, but it would make them a lot harder to get rid of. Not impossible. We'd build in some answers.

But it really would make them a lot more durable. And we're like, okay, well, what do you want out of your artifacts? They're extra durable. Felt really cool. So the creative team came up with the idea of dark steel, which the set ended up being named after. So what dark steel is, is the Mirrodin people come up with this substance that is basically can't be destroyed. It's indestructible. And they make use of this metal to build lots of things.

And so there are all sorts of dark steel items. And the cool thing about a dark steel item is it can't be destroyed. It's an indestructible item. Interestingly, by the way, when we first introduced indestructible, it was not a keyword. It is now a keyword. The idea at the time was, it's just English. Well, there's a game action that says destroy. Well, indestructible, by definition, means can't be destroyed.

So that was just a means for us to say, oh, well, destruction effects don't work on it. It turns out that everybody sort of felt that indestructible was a keyword. And so we eventually, not for Dark Steel, but years later, we eventually, I think, after Magic 2010, anyway, at some point, one of the core sets, we said, you know what, let's just make, everyone assumes it's a keyword. They act like it's a keyword.

It sounds like a keyword. Let's just make it a keyword. And so we did. So indestructible is now a keyword. But at the time it was introduced, it wasn't technically a keyword. It was just, I don't know, a state that things could be. So the one other new mechanic that popped up, so I should stress, by the way, nowadays, every set is sort of its own thing. It's a large set. You know, it has its own mechanics.

Back in the day of blocks, really, we were expanding upon things. So a small set usually would have maybe two new things. I mean, it varied with time. In very early Magic, in the early blocks, there was nothing. No new mechanics got added, although we would expand upon existing mechanics. And then eventually we started adding in a few mechanics. First we added one, and around the time Dark Seal came out, it was custom to have two new things. So the second new thing was a mechanic called Modular.

So Modular was in Visions, which Bill Rose, he was the team. So Bill Rose, Joel Mick, Charlie Coutinho, Elliot Siegel, Don Felice, Howard Kallenberg. That team designed Menagerie and Menagerie ended up being basically Mirage and Visions. It got sort of broken apart. But they were one of the original playtest teams that when Richard, like Richard said, okay, hey, there

might, someday we might need to make more magic sets. And he had his playtesters all work on sets. And so the East Coast playtesters made Ice Age. The Bridge Club made Menagerie. And Barry Reich made Spectral Chaos. So Ice Age became Ice Age. Menagerie became Mirage and Visions. And spectral chaos, pieces of it got used in Invasion.

Like Domain is what we call the Barry mechanic, but made by Barry for spectral chaos. Anyway, in Visions, there was a cycle, I think, of creatures called the Chimeras, based on Greek mythology. And the thing about the chimeras was when they died, you would put plus one, plus one counters and basically the early

version of a keyword counter, but I think they were all combined into one thing. So if like a 2-2 vigilance creature died, you would put a counter on a new creature and I think it was an artifact creature that was plus two, plus two in vigilance. So the idea was, if you killed a chimera, you could attach it to other,

usually you attach it to other chimeras, because then if they died, it continued passing. But anyway, it was a little, the chimeras were a cool concept, a very interesting design, but it didn't quite, it made use use of technology we weren't using anymore. We weren't putting, we really had consolidated counters. And so the idea was, okay, well, let's take the same idea and just sort of make a mechanic out of it. So what modular says is it's modular in a number.

That means it enters the battlefield with whatever that number is of plus one, plus one counters. So if you're modular two, you enter with two plus one, plus one counters. There's nothing about modular. Most of them, I think all the mechanics or all the cards we made, or I think most of the cards, but not all the cards we made in Darksteel were zero, zero that entered with some number plus one, plus one counters. So the idea was if I entered with two plus one, plus one counters, then I'd be zero, zero and it'd come two counters. I'd be was if I entered with two plus one plus one counters, then I'd be zero zero and it'd come

two counters. I'd be a two two creature. And the idea was, when I died, when a modular creature dies, you may move all plus one plus one counters on it to target artifact creature. And so the idea is modular is good with itself.

Modular is a good example. So I talk a lot about linear and modular mechanics. Ironically, modular is more linear itself. Modular is a good example. So I talk a lot about linear and modular mechanics. Ironically, modular is more linear than modular. But linear mechanic is something that makes you want to play with itself. And a modular mechanic is it works by itself. So for example, a linear mechanic might be like slivers.

Like if you're playing with some slivers, you really want to play with a lot of slivers. Or if you're playing with some energy, you kind of want to play with a bunch of energy. You know, there's things that sort of say, hey, you know, in order to optimize the system, you kind of want to play more of it. Modular is something like a kicker card or cycling. Something in which you can just throw one in your deck. It doesn't matter. It doesn't require more of it to play.

It doesn't require you playing certain themes or something. It's just in a vacuum good. of it to play. It doesn't require you playing certain themes or something. It's just in a vacuum good. Now, interestingly, modular is kind of halfway in between a linear and a modular mechanic. It is more linear in the sense that

in order to optimize it, you need to have other artifact creatures. If it's the only artifact creature in your deck, modular doesn't mean anything. It's like it comes and plays with counters and it dies and it goes away, like any creature. It's only if you have other artifact creatures on the battlefield that it matters. And modular creatures

play particularly nicely with other modular creatures, because if you die and put your counters from one modular creature onto the second modular creature, when that second modular creature dies, all of those counters get moved to the next creature you're going to move it to. So modular, like I said, had a very linear quality to it.

But it was us just cleaning up the chimeras and trying to make something that we thought would be friendly in an artifact environment. It is funny looking back on modular. One of the things that sort of, you know, this is the magic historian in me, when I look back at old mechanics, sometimes we put in restrictions that I know we did it for flavor, and, like, I know the reason we said

artifact creature, not any creature, was it was an artifact block. We tried, like, artifact themes. We tried to make it feel more artifact-y. But it's interesting that, like, the modular mechanic, there's really no reason that it needed to go, like, if it just went on any creature and can move to any creature, it would be a

more generally useful mechanic that we could use on more things. And it could be on that set we only put them on artifact creatures to get the flavor of artifactness, but I do regret a little bit that it's a little more, like, it's a neat mechanic that I like to bring back, but it's a little more contained than I want it mechanic that I like to bring back but it's a little more contained

than I want it to be because I can really only bring it back in a set that has a lot of artifact creatures because I don't have a lot of artifact creatures. It's just not useful enough. So anyway, those were the brand new mechanics which was indestructible and was

modular. And both of those, like I said, one of the things that was really interesting to me about making an artifact block was us really playing in the realm of what would be cool to do with artifacts, what's flavorful for artifacts. I talked during the modular podcast about how

a lot of the stuff we did from imprint to infinity to equipment was just us trying to figure out, like, cool ways to do equipment and, you know, cool ways to adapt equipment and stuff. Okay. Now, one of the things with any small set back in the day was not only did we take what existed. Sorry. Not only did we make new things, but we also adapted what existed not only did we make new things but we also adapted what existed. So the best example there was we'd introduced affinity for artifacts

in in Mirrodin and we were trying to get a riff off them. So we ended up making the cycle of golems that were affinity for basic land types. So there were five of them. Affinity for plains, affinity for islands, affinity for swamps, affinity for mountains, affinity for basic land types. So there were five of them. Affinity for plains, affinity for islands, affinity for swamps,

affinity for mountains, affinity for forests. The idea was they were generic creatures and if you had the right basic land, so if I was playing a mono green deck, it allowed it to get me to that pretty fast. Because the idea was if, for example,

I had a forest in play, the fact that my forest both made the creature cost one less and was a forest so I could tap it for mana kind of made it like the forest tapped for two mana, at least for the purpose of casting the golems. And so if you were playing a creature with a lot of forest, I'm sorry, a deck with a lot of forest, for example, I think, like,

I think the green one, I'm trying to remember what it cost. But let's say it cost six. I'm not 100% sure what it cost. But if you had three green forests, sorry, if you had three forests, forests think, like, I think the green one, I'm trying to remember what it costs. But let's say it costs six. I'm not 100% sure what it costs. But if you had three green, sorry, if you had three forests, forests aren't green, but they tap for green mana. If you had three forests on the battlefield, you could play a six mana creature for nothing, right? Or not for nothing.

You could tap the three forests, which is three mana, and then it reduces it for three and you could play it. So for three, basically for three, if you had three forests, not exactly three mana, and then it reduces it for three, and you can play it. So basically, if you had three fours, not exactly three fours, you could play a six mana Affinity Force card, for example. It was us just messing around with other things we wanted to do with Affinity. Like, one of the things,

let me talk about Affinity for a second, just to... Affinity is a really good example where we made a mechanic and we tied it to something just because it thematically made sense for where we were. Nothing about Aff tied it to something just because it thematically made sense for where we were. Nothing about Affinity has to tie to Artifacts. I understand Affinity to Artifacts is where we started.

But as Affinity for basic land shows, you know, Affinity for Mountain and such, is Affinity can work with anything. I mean, it needs to be something you can count. So it needs to be either affinity for a permanent or, in theory, you could do affinity for cards in hand, affinity for a certain type of card in graveyard.

It just has to be something that you can count that's public information that your opponent can, you know, double check on and such. So you can't have affinity for things in your library or something that your opponent doesn't know, or affinity for a specific card type in your hand where your opponent doesn't know what that, or affinity for a specific card type in your hand where your opponent doesn't know what

you have in your hand. You can do cards in hand since that's public knowledge. And it's interesting that affinity because, so what happened in Darksteel, I'm sorry, what happened in Mirrodin Block, basically Mirrodin came out, affinity was very good, and then Darksteel came out, and

there were a bunch of cards in there that were also very good. It definitely sort of made the issue of, it just got overwhelming. And then when I got to fifth on, we had to solve that. Okay, also

in this set, I think Entwine also got brought over. I don't know if there were any imprint cards. Was there or might not have been imprint cards? I think there was one imprint card in the last set. I'm not sure. I don't have it written down.

We might have had a few. The fact that I did one in the last set makes me think that I wanted it to be represented. So maybe it was here in small doses. one in the last set makes me think that I wanted it to be represented. So maybe it was here in small doses. And Entwine, I think we might have messed around with Entwine with some other non-mana costs or in addition to mana costs.

One of the common things we did back in the block days is we would give you mechanics and then we'd sort of riff on them. And a real common thing we would riff on is alternate costs that aren't mana. So like the first set usually would have mana and then

later sets we'd play around a little bit with other costs. I don't definitively remember whether we had other costs or not in Dirk's deal. Okay. Another thing we did so I talked about how we tended to do two new mechanics. We also would do some cycles. So there was one sort of brand new cycle in the

set called the Pulses. So the way the Pulses would work is they cost three mana. They cost one generic and two colored mana. And then it granted you, the player, a resource. And then if your opponent was still ahead

of you of that resource, instead of the card going to the graveyard, it would remain in your hand. It would go back to your hand. So the white one gains you life. But if your opponent has more life than you, then you get to put it back in your hand. And your blue one draws you cards, but your opponent has more cards than you. So the idea essentially was it was more of a catch-up thing, where if I wait to use it when I'm behind, then I have more use for it. But if I use it when I'm ahead, I get a one-shot out of it, but then it's gone. Like, I don't get to keep it.

And one of the things that Bill was really big on was the idea that, what if people don't like the theme? Bill would always bring it up. What if people don't like the theme? Bill would always bring it up. What if people don't like this theme? And Bill would always insist that every set had some sort of splashing mechanic, or not mechanic, but splashing cycle that had nothing to do with, like, and I think the pulses in this set were trying to do is like,

well, what if you don't like artifacts? You know, indestructible only goes on artifacts, and modular, you need artifact creatures so what if you don't like artifacts and the Pulsar was like, well here's a cool thing that has nothing to do with artifacts I think over time and part of this also

a shift away from the block model was the idea that hey, let's just go all in let's make this the most exciting it can be hey, if this is not for you, the next set will be something different. Maybe that'll be for you. And even within that, there's a lot of utility of, you know, let's make like, I would rather make something that the set synergistically can use rather than just make something specifically out of theme.

And like I said, it's not that I don't want people to play the set if they don't like the theme, because you want to make sure there's fun cards regardless of if they're into the theme or not. But I do like, the designer in me likes being a little more cohesive, and I was never really a fan of let's make something that has nothing to do with anything. I don't mind being tangential. I don't mind finding a rare cycle that is synergistic in one way, but, you know, not as

blatant about it, you know. I wouldn't mind finding a mechanic that's like, okay, it plays nicely in the set, but it's not as shouting from the rooftops, hey, I'm this theme. And so I just, I like a little more subtly. The little sort of just make something that's not here

is not my cup of tea okay another thing, let's see artificer was introduced, so we did not have a word for somebody who specializes in artifacts I don't know why it took till Darksteel

to get artificer, why it wasn't in Mirrodin but a lot of times what's happened with creature types is, like, they get made when somebody who's, like, on the creative team is trying to concept and trying to give it creature types. And I'm like, wow, there just isn't a word for this. And in the early days of Magic, like, there was only one creature type per creature most of the time. So, like, it's a human. Fine. Good enough. Or, you know, or not that, I guess human didn't start until Mirrodin, but you know, it's a goblin. Let's call it a goblin. And what we found, especially as we did more with having

both race and class on creature types, is trying to be more about, okay, let's make sure we have all the right classes. What are the jobs? What might people do? And it's an ongoing thing. People always ask me sort of, why, what's the bar? What's the bar to get a new creature type?

And the answer really is two things. A, do we need it? Are we trying to describe something or explain something that we don't have the vocabulary in our current list of things? Or B, hey, is it something the players would really appreciate? Is it something novel or new or resonant or, you know, like, hey, let's introduce dinosaurs. You know what? People

would have fun making a dinosaur deck. Okay. Let's introduce dinosaurs. But anyway, it's interesting. Like, I find it very funny. Like, humans didn't happen to Mirrodin. Artificers didn't happen until Darksteel. A lot of those you think would be sooner. It's not like there weren't things that essentially were artificers and earlier magic.

So I find that interesting. Okay. Another thing we did for the first time, to the best of my knowledge. So in Mirrodin, we made a card called Sword of Kaldra. And the idea was we wanted to make... Mirrodin, we made a card called Sword of Kaldra. And the idea was we wanted to make... So there's three cards in Mirage that if you get all three out of the battlefield, you get to go get Spirit of the Night from your deck.

Or I think you get it from your deck. But anyway, it was the idea of these cards kind of work together and if you get them all, something bigger happens. In that case, you went and got another card um so we liked the idea of could we do something like that but i was trying to get more block synergy once again i brought this up earlier um that i was really trying to find ways to make blocks feel more cohesive now part of it was the theme um i was a big advocate of of the themed blocks and i felt the theme was helping them feel more connective tissue

than some of the earlier blocks that were a little more like, oh, okay. But the other thing I liked a lot was I convinced Bill, whoever, the idea of let's run something through all three blocks. And I know I put the first one in Mirrodin. And then I got sign-offs. So the first one had the sword of Kaldra. The second one had the shield of Kaldra. So the first one had the sword of Kaldra, the second one had the shield of Kaldra, and the third one had the helm of Kaldra.

And the idea was, if you got all three of them on battlefield at one time, it made a Kaldra token and then equipped all the things to them. And the combination of all of them together was just a super powerful creature. If you ever got Kaldra out, it was...

And it didn't guarantee you won the game, but it really helped you win the game. It was very hard to deal with. So anyway, Shield of Cauldre did something that I had been wanting to do forever. I think this is the first time we did it. People will correct me if I'm wrong. So Shield of Cauldre

costs four mana for an artifact. It was an equipment. And it said any equipment, or the equipment named Sword of Caldra, Shield of Caldra, Helm of Caldra are indestructible. And Equipped Creature is indestructible. So the idea is, if I get Caldra out, Caldra is indestructible. And both the Helm and the Sword are making it bigger and better. And all the equipment is indestructible. So if I sort of get them together,

I just make this unstoppable thing that's hard to deal with, not impossible to deal with, like Wrath of God and stuff can get rid of the creature. But anyway, but the thing that we did here is the card by name mentions Helm of Kaldra. Well, at the time Darksteel came out, there was no Helm of Caldra. Now, you could look back and see Shield of Caldra, I'm sorry, look back and see Sword of

Caldra, and see this said Shield of Caldra, and, you know, there's three sets in a block. So, I mean, it didn't take a rocket scientist to sort of pick out, oh, I guess Helm of Caldra's coming. But it was the first time we had sort of done a throw forward. Once again, to the best of my knowledge,

we've done it other times. And we've had sets, Magic had cards that reference other cards. Like Kukas, for example. What stuff was that in? Where Keeper of Kukas and Kukas, they reference each other. We've had cards,

Odyssey, for example, did some Kindle cards that reference other cards. If this card's in your graveyard and it's a separate card, it also boosts your card. So we had cards that reference other cards, but the cards that we had done that with were cards in the same set. They existed. When I say, whatever, a kookus, go look it up. There's a kookus. You could see it, right? In this set, we basically were saying to the public, hey, this is coming, and you didn't quite know what it did, but you did

say that this made them all indestructible. So, like, you knew something was coming. Now, the helm was the one that made the token, so, like, you didn't quite know the payoff till the end. But we were, like, and the fun thing is we saw Sword of Khadra, you had no idea that it was anything. It's just, okay, it's a cool artifact. When you saw a shield, that's when you first started idea that it was anything. Okay, it's a cool artifact.

When you saw Shield, that's when you first started saying, oh, they're up to something. There's something larger going on. And I really appreciated that. I thought that was a lot of fun. Okay. Another story. I want to talk a little bit about the making of probably the most

famous card in the set that was a very broken card, which is probably why it's the most famous card in the set that was a very broken card, which is probably why it's the most famous card set, called Skullclamp. So Skullclamp is an artifact equipment. Costs one. So equipped creature gets plus one, minus one.

And if equipped creature dies, you draw two cards. And then it's equipped one. So there was... The story of this card was I designed a card called Bequethal that came

out... I don't know. Urza's Block, maybe? So Bequethal was... It was a equipment... Not equipment. It was an aura that went on a creature. I forget what it did. It was something like plus one plus one I assume it was plus one plus one so what it was

it was a green card that said plus one plus one and when enchanted creature dies, draw two cards so the idea was I put this on my creature and if you kill my creature, I don't get two for one I in fact draw a card for each of the creatures

each of the cards that went to the graveyard. And there was a big talk in R&D about whether Bequithel was worth printing. I liked the idea. I was like okay one of the big things about auras, it offsets auras and so I made this card and there was a big discussion about whether players

would like it or not. I said they would. And it came out and like, eh, nobody was that enthralled by it. I don't know, maybe there's some combo deck at some point someone made. But anyway, it wasn't that enthralling. So what I said is, okay, well, but Cleetho as an aura wasn't that exciting. What if I tried it as an equipment?

So I made an equipment. Equipped creature gets plus one, plus one. When equipped creature dies, you draw two cards. Now, my first mistake here was the reason that Bequithil sort of was not overpowered was, well, you were losing two cards and you're drawing two cards. The thing with equipment, though, is you don't lose the equipment. So when the creature dies, you draw two cards, you're going two cards. The thing with equipment, though, is you don't lose the equipment. So when the creature dies,

you draw two cards, you're going up a card. Now you're replacing the creature you've lost, but you're going up a card. Now, if what I had turned over had just stayed the way it was, things probably would have been fine, I think.

But in development, and I don't know who in development, so the development team, somebody on the development team, Henry Stern led the development team, Tyler Bielman, Brandon Bozzi, Charlie Coutinho, and Brian Schneider. So somebody on the development team thought it'd be clever to make it plus one minus one rather than plus one plus one. And the idea being, hey, plus one minus one is worse than plus one plus one. And the idea being, hey, plus one minus one is worse than plus one plus one. In general, if you took almost any effect that was plus one plus one and made it plus one minus one, you would be making it weaker. So whoever did this said, okay, well, plus one minus one is weaker than plus one plus one. And hey, it makes some synergy. Well, what they were missing was

in this one particular case, plus one minus one was stronger than plus one plus one. Because if I put plus one plus one on a creature, and when it died I drew cards, well, I had no way to kill the creature, right? I had to be able to kill the creature. Now, there's sacrifice. I'm not, it is possible

the plus one plus one version might also have been broken. I do not know that. That is an alternate reality that I do not get to experience. But, it is not as strong as plus one, minus one. The problem with plus one, minus one is all of a sudden what the card became, what Skullclamp became was

for one mana, I could sacrifice a creature and draw two cards. And that, that ability proved to be too much. So Skullclamp, I mean, there were other broken things. Dark Steel is not the only broken thing in the set. But it was one of, I think, the most broken. And the funny thing about it is a perfect example where a lot of times people

remember I talked about last time in the Mirrodin podcast I talked about how during Mirrodin block I broke the record of designing the most cards that had been banned I passed Richard in that record and the quirky thing about it is did I design

Skullclamp? I did I designed everything about it except one tiny number change that got made in development. But that one tiny number change, you know, made it a lot better. So, it's like, I mean, I did design it. But sometimes, not every time, I will make things end up broken that it's not 100% my fault. Maybe it's some percent my fault. But, although once again, I was not on the development team.

It was my job to make cool things, not my job to necessarily make sure they were balanced. There was a whole team for that. Anyway, so Darksteel, I think basically what happened was Mirrodin came out, and Mirrodin was very powerful. Then Darksteel, I think basically what happened was Mirrodin came out, and Mirrodin was very powerful. Then Darksteel came out,

and we hadn't quite figured out when Darksteel came out kind of how powerful Mirrodin was. I think we had some idea, and so we pulled back in certain areas, but we didn't pull back enough. And there were just a number of things that were in the set that just took the affinity that was good and made it

even better. And so, in some level, Darksteel was kind of like, like sometimes what happens is we make a set and there's a gap of time where it's, we're past

the point where we can do anything about it. We're hands off. And we will be between Future Future League and just watching what the public is doing with whatever the current set is like as we get closer to the reality of the set coming out we have a better and better understanding of what where things will be at and what happens every once in a while is there's this point where we can't change the set, but we learn things about the set. So we sort of, sometimes if we make a mistake, we will see the mistake coming.

And Darksteel was a good example of that, where by the time Darksteel was coming out, you know, we didn't figure out quite early enough to correct everything in Darksteel. So there's a lot of broken things in Dark Steel. But we figured out early enough to know before Dark Steel came out. Oh, and to answer the question, so there's a hands-off period where we like, the designers make the file. So

these days, you know, Vision Design makes it, Pen Set Design, Set Design works with Play Design. There's a point at which Play Design signs off, okay, now it's going to be edited and printed and all this stuff's going off, okay, now it's going to be edited and printed and all this stuff's going to, well, first it's going to be edited. So hands-off first happens when we've got to edit it. We can't edit it if you keep changing things.

Next is sort of layout, right? We have to take the cards and we have to lay them out so that they're physically able to be printed. Then there's printing, then there's shipping. If a change is important enough, some level of change is to be made during editing, and there are things that happen during editing, and so

if Future Future League discovers something, editing can make a few changes. So if something's super important, especially like a cost or something, editing can do that. Once it gets to layout, okay, it's got to be a really major issue. It has to be a big, big, big deal for us to mess with layout.

By that point, it's really past the point we're supposed to mess with things. It's what we call an emergency change. We do it very, very infrequently. And the reason we do is once you change cards when it's past editing, there's a ripple effect where different people start working on things, and if they all grab it from the same place, you have to sort of track down everybody who took it and make sure they're using the new one and not the old one.

Because in order to sort of speed things along, multiple different teams are working on different aspects. And so what can happen is when you bifurcate the file at that point, if changes happen, if it comes back together and the change didn't get to all the versions of it, it can come back together and revert to the wrong version.

So there's a lot of dangers that come with making things during layout. So it's a last, last, last resort. I'm not saying we've never done it, but it is something that we do with great, great trepidation. Once it's being printed and shipped, it's too late.

It doesn't matter. Once it's there printed and shipped, it's too late. It doesn't matter. Once it's there, nothing we can do can change about it. So, I think Darksteel is one of the things where it was in printing when we realized... When Mirrodin came out, Darksteel, I think, had been sent off to printing.

So, when we actually saw the public interact with Mirrodin, we could realize what was going on. We saw it too late. So Darksteel had a lot of mistakes that we would have fixed. And when I get to the next podcast on Fifth Dawn, Fifth Dawn did know some stuff. We were able to see some of what happened in Mirrodin before Fifth Dawn really started design, or was

early in design. And so Darksteel sadly was in that window. And so there are a number of, I mean, there's a lot of fun things in Darksteel, and I think Darksteel was a fun set, and I think that there was, like, when I look back on Mirrodin Black as a whole, I like Mirrodin Black.

There's a lot of fun things going on there. If you kind of aren't trying to break things, if you're... If you're just trying to have fun, if your goal is just making fun and entertaining decks, Mirrodin Black is awesome. There's all sorts of cool things. There's just a bunch of

degenerate things. We've had a bunch... In the history of Magic, there are a bunch of degenerate things. We've had a bunch, like, from a in the history of Magic, there are a bunch of sets where we really made some mistakes on the tail end of things, what we now call play design. And Mirrodin Block was one of those. And both Mirrodin and Darksteel

really suffered. I'm not going to say that 5th Dawn didn't also make some mistakes, but we at least caught a lot of stuff and it made less mistakes. But anyway, next time, we will talk about 5th Dawn didn't also make some mistakes, but we at least caught a lot of stuff and it made less mistakes. But anyway, next time, we'll talk about 5th Dawn and I'll get into that. So anyway, guys, I'm now, I'm literally parking. I hope you guys enjoyed talking about Darksteel today. There's a lot of fun.

Like, I look, it's fun for me when I do these, I get to look back. Like I said, I worked on all three, I worked on all three sets of Mirrodin Black, leaving two of them. I was on this one, didn't leave this one. So it's fun looking back. And I literally remember the day that I went into Bill's office to pitch Indestructible.

I remember sort of saying to him, what do players hate? They hate, you know, what do players hate about their artifacts more than anything else? When they're destroyed. Well, what if we prevent that? What if they can't be destroyed? And I remember doing that pitch to Bill.

And anyway, it's just fun. And it's kind of neat to me, by the way. One of the things that's really cool is it is neat when you make something and then it makes its way into the sort of evergreenness of the game. So the fact, for example, that I had a huge hand in equipment or that I made indestructible and that those are just like normal parts of magic.

It's really cool that you sort of made something that didn't just make a set, but like was so something that it became an essence of the game. So that's really cool. And so I will always have a soft spot for Indestructible. And one day, one day, I will make a fixed modular. As my witness, my listeners, one day I will make a fixed modular.

Anyway, guys, I am now parked. I'm in my parking spot. And I had a little extra traffic today. Something you guys don't see all that much. It's a little longer podcast.

So anyway, I hope you guys enjoyed today. But I'm in my parking space. So you all know what that means. Instead of making magic, it's time for me. I mean, it's time to drive to work. Sorry. Instead of making magic, Instead of making magic, it's time for me... I mean, it needs to drive to work, sorry.

Instead of making magic, instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. I'll see you guys next time. Bye-bye.