Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - Drive to Work #125 - Lenticular Design, Part 1

Episode Date: May 23, 2014

Mark starts a two-part podcast about a new design concept.

Okay, I'm pulling on my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for another drive to work. Okay, so today, there was a topic that I wanted to talk about on my podcast, but I wanted to wait until I wrote the article about it first. And the article I wrote about it came out today. This will give you a little hint about how far in advance I'm doing these. And the topic is lenticular design. So today I'm going to talk all about what it is, how we came up with the concept,

and sort of how it impacts magic design. It's actually a pretty important concept. And it's something that's pretty... I've not seen it elsewhere, so I know it's something that I'm sure other designers think about. But anyway, it's interesting sometimes that one of the things I try very hard to do is put words to things, to concepts. Because I write about design so much, I'm very conscious about sort of having things

that I can form and discuss. And lenticular design is a big one. I'm actually very proud of lenticular design. And today, I'm going to talk about it. Okay, so to understand lenticular design, let's go back in the Wayback Machine to the beginning of New World Order. So I did a whole podcast on New World Order, but the super short version is we were losing audience members, we were losing less people were getting into Magic. The number of people that were joining was going down. That's a bad sign. We were trying to figure out what's going on. We realized that the game was just getting too complicated

because when people enter the game, they're always at zero comprehension. They don't know anything. And little by little, Magic had just been, you know, the gap had been widening between knowing nothing and being able to play. So the big idea of New World Order was if we take common and hold it to a tighter complexity,

beginners, most of their cards are common, we would just make it easier for them, we'd essentially lessen the game's complexity for the beginner, but still allow the more complex things for the advanced players. That was the idea. So, one of the things that I was tasked with was figuring out what made things complex. And what I realized was, there was three types of complexity. What we called comprehension complexity, which has to do with reading the

card and understanding what the card is saying. And as I find my article, there's actually a couple of different types of comprehension complexity. So number one is, I just use terminology you don't know. And this is why I talk about keywords come at a cost. Whenever you read something and it's a word you don't know, that's a barrier. It's a big barrier. That imagine, you know, reading something and just coming across a word that you're unfamiliar with. Okay, once or twice in vocabulary, you can learn it, but at some point it just becomes daunting. So you have to be very careful. What we found is certain vocabulary is very hard for people. The example I use in my article is mentioning the stack. Now, advanced players might feel like, oh, I get the stack, you know, last in, first out, blah, blah, blah, you know, but

a lot of what the stack does is pretty invisible to most players. Most players understand kind of how their spells interact, but they don't... If you actually ask them what the stack is and how the stack works, most players don't know. A lot of players, in fact, have never heard the term the stack. Now, real quickly, the counter-argument for us not mentioning the stack is we should mention it more. How are people going to learn what it is if we never talk about it? mentioning the stack is, we should mention it more. How are people going to learn what it is if we never talk about it?

The problem is, it's a pretty advanced concept that we don't, you don't need to understand the stack to play. That's another important thing to understand, which is we, one of the goals of teaching somebody to play a game, any game, but Magic in particular, is you don't

need them to know everything, you need them to know enough to play. And so one of our strategies has been, because Magic is such a hard game to learn, is you don't need them to know everything. You need them to know enough to play. And so one of our strategies has been, because Magic is such a hard game to learn, is only teach them what they have to know. And a lot of things, like how the stack works, we teach them elements of it so they're playing correctly, but we don't right away teach them sort of the nitty-gritty, because it's just overwhelming. I mean, if you sat down to play Magic, I'm like, okay, read this phone book first, most people are like, thank you,

I'll go play another game. And really what we've been trying to do is say, okay, well, here's the things you have to know. And as you get into the game, you slowly learn more. And that trying to throw people in the deep end just tends to make people not able to deal with the game. And that Magic is a fun game. And the point is, at its core, it's not as complex as people think it is.

I mean, it's complex in that there's lots and lots of corner cases. To understand all the corner cases is complex. To understand the basics of how to play actually is not that complex. And part of doing that is making sure that we... So anyway, number one is just vocabulary. We have to be careful with vocabulary. Now, some vocabulary is worth it. Some vocabulary, if done correctly, such as flying,

can actually help you. Because the vocabulary comes with outside meaning, and that outside meaning can help you understand what's going on. But, other vocabulary in which it doesn't connect to anything... Like, people ask us all the time about keywording mill. And maybe one day we will if we come up with the right word for it.

But the biggest problem with keywording mill is, why don't we use the word mill? And the reason is, the word mill is a magic thing that comes from millstone, which is just a card in magic. Milling is like grinding wheat. I guess it's a metaphor of grinding your mind. Anyway, mill doesn't mean anything. I understand if you guess there's a metaphor of grinding your mind, but anyway, mill doesn't mean anything. I mean, I understand if you've played Magic for a while, you get the slang, but if you're a new player and I say mill two cards, you have no idea what

that means. And if Magic has enough of that, it just gets harder to grok. So anyway, number one of comprehension complexity is just vocabulary. Number two is just having things that don't... Like, one of the rules I said in the article is, if you read a card and you go, I've got to read that again, that's a sign there's something going on. That's complex. That if I can't grok what's happening... And the one I used in my article was Dead Ringers,

which was a card from Apocalypse, I think. So basically what happened was I made a card, and the card I made was destroy two target creatures that share a color. That's easy, pretty simple. That's got white in it, that's got white in it, done. And I think what happened is, in trying, because it was a multicolor block,

they didn't want to hose you for being part white, so then they changed it because the idea is, okay, well, I destroyed two colors that are exactly the same combination of colors. But, anyway, the way they ended up wording if you've ever seen Dead Ringers, literally it's like, what? What? You just don't know what it means. And I'm like, that's not good. And the answer, by the way, is if you have a card

in which to template it correctly, you can't understand what it means, one of two things is either the template is wrong, we need to find a simpler template, or you can't make the card. We learn all the time that we want to do something, that in order to template it correctly so that the rules work, you can't understand what it is, it means don't make the card. Okay, that's number two, comprehension complexity.

Number three comprehension complexity is, I think I used suspend as the example, which is sometimes, right, when you write it out, that there's so much going on that just it's hard to grok it all. And suspend is a perfect example where on the surface,

I thought it would be pretty grokkable. It's like you're exchanging time for mana. It costs less mana, but it costs time. I have to wait. And in a very sort of esoteric sense, it's pretty simple. You trade time for mana. But then, in actual playing it, it's like, okay, I take this.

I got to put it in the zone. I got to understand the exile alone. And then I got to put counters on it. And then every turn, I got to remember to mark down the counters. And when the counters go off, then I have this thing happen. I got to remember it for, you know, like, I mean. And once again, it's another example of a mechanic where the advanced players got it. I remember it for, you know, it's like, I mean, and once again, it's another example of a mechanic

where the advanced players got it. They got it. They had no problem with it. But beginners really, really struggled. There was a lot going on. There was multiple zone changes.

There was dealing with counters and countdowns and upkeep effects and things happening and holy moly, there was a lot going on. It just was overwhelming.

Now, the fourth type of comprehension complexity, I used one with nothing as an example. So one with nothing is from, what is it, from Scourge, I think? Anyway, it's a card that says, discard your hand. So you're like, how can this be, how can there be comprehension complexity? There's three words on it. Discard your hand. How tough is that?

Take your hand how tough is that take your hand discard it uh the reason that this has comprehension complexity is it doesn't make sense players read it they go discard your hand okay i i understand what you're saying in english it says i shake my hand throw it away that makes no sense so what is it really saying so that's another big part i'm gonna talk about today in lenticular Design is people, a lot of confusion comes from people not understanding what it's doing. And when people don't understand, they just start making things up to try to make it understand.

And One With Nothing is a perfect example where the car is crystal, crystal clear what it does, but it's so non-intuitive that you would ever want to do that that people would not understand it. Because they understood the base definition and said, oh, that can't be right. What am I missing? And they spent all this time and energy

trying to understand what they were missing. And that's, by the way, in general, I'm not saying we shouldn't make cards that will win nothing, although a lot of people would prefer we don't. I think we should make cards that you go, what? Now, that card's rare, as it should be. I mean, we should should make cards that you go, what? No, that card's rare as it should be. I mean, we should occasionally make cards that are confusing, but not a common, and not that that card was a common. But I'm trying to show different kind of comprehension

complexity. Okay, number two is board complexity. So board complexity is, do you understand how what is in play interacts with the rest of the board? The example in the article I used was Prodigal Pyromancer, which is, for old folks, Prodigal Sorcerer, which used to be a blue card back in the day. And basically the card taps to do one damage to a creature or player. You're like, how complex is that? He taps to do one. And the answer is, it's actually pretty complex. Because with him on the board, what it means is

every combat, I have the potential to have one more damage done. And let's say I set up a situation where I have a complex blocking situation. Now just adding one card, Protocol Sorcerer or Protocol Pyromancer, all of a sudden

I have so many more options I have to do. Now, once again, for an experienced player who can shorthand the math of combat, because one of the things that happens, and this is a lot of things that people forget, is when you play a game, or do anything really in life, your brain starts to shorthand

things. For example, right now I'm driving to work. Well, how is it I'm driving to work and doing a podcast? And the answer is, well, you know what? I've driven a car a long time. I've driven to work many, many times. Most of what I'm doing is on autopilot. My brain knows what it's doing. And so I'm able to actually do a podcast because, well, now if I was a first-time driver, you know, someone who never had driven before, could I do a podcast while driving? No, no, I could not.

Or it would be a very short podcast. Hi, today I'm... That's my imitation of it. See, you get wonderful dramatic skits like that. So, the thing to remember is, when you play, you start shorthanding things. And what happens is players who have played a long time forget they've shorthanded it. They're like, that's not so hard.

No, combat's not so hard once you've done it hundreds of times. And, you know, there's a point at which you learn, oh, like you can glance at the board and understand, oh, do I want to trade or don't I want to trade? But for beginners, they have to figure out, oh, if I do this, that means I will trade. And then they've got to figure out whether they want to trade, which is also complex. And so

the idea of protocol power transfer is that's adding a lot of extra data to a complex situation that maybe you've mastered, and once again, most people have not mastered combat, but they understand it quicker than they can understand it. So anyway, so first board complexity is things that affect other things. The second thing I talked about were things that are affected by other things.

I forgot the name of the one I did. The one I talked about was a creature whose power and toughness was equal to the other creatures you have in play. And the reason that can get complex is, let's say I get into combat with multiple creatures. Well, I've got to remember, if other creatures die, that this creature will be smaller based on the other deaths. So if I get into combat, I have to go, oh, well, this creature and that creature could die based on their blocking, so my guy could be this big, and it gets much more complex. Like, if I want him to survive, you know, if I attack, what does he have?

How big is it? Well, he could block out the creature in such a way that he could kill it. But do I want to block, attack? So board complexity is talking about, can I understand the implications of what's going to happen with all the things on the battlefield

in conjunction with one another? And what happened was when we first realized complexity was going on, like time spiral happened, we were losing people. Like, okay, people aren't getting

what's going on. And then in Lorewyn, we made sure the cards were much easier to read. I get it. I get what it's doing. But the cards had a lot of interconnectivity

and what we had done was we lowered comprehension complexity, but we hadn't lowered board complexity. And then in Lorewyn, especially in Lorewyn Morning Tide, it was we lowered comprehension complexity, but we hadn't lowered border complexity. And especially lower in morning time, it was very high border complexity. But beginners, what we found,

we couldn't even tell what was going on. Like, they would just walk into onboard tricks constantly because they just couldn't see it. Okay, the third type of complexity is what we call strategic complexity. Now, strategic complexity is about, do you understand the strategic ramifications of what's going on?

What we found, in lenticular design is based a lot on understanding strategic complexity. So strategic complexity is sort of like, oh, I see. A good example, a thing I use for strategic complexity was factor fiction, which is, here's a card that, depending on how you use it, the card could be very weak or very strong, depending on how you use it. Do you understand how to divide cards? How to choose cards? You know, are you able to look at your opponent and the board state and understand how, in the current board state, your opponent values his cards?

Like, at the beginning of the game, this card might be not valuable, but mid-game, it's very valuable, Depending on what they have or how they've acted. That's another big thing about advanced play is, Mike Turin taught me this, that if you want to optimize your play, it's not just a matter of what the cards are, it's a matter of how long did your opponent look at his cards before he did something. How long did he wait after you cast a spell? Like, a lot of advanced play is reading the people and saying, oh, well, let me think of the kind of, what they're thinking about,

and if I can figure out what they're thinking about, that tells me what's in their hand. You know, oh, are they trying to decide whether I should cast a spell or not? Well, maybe they have a counter spell in their hand, such like that. So what we learned was comprehension complexity

is more for the beginning player, comprehension complexity is greater than board complexity, which is greater than strategic complexity. Which means, first and foremost, if you're a newer player, you are trying to understand what is going on on the board.

What the cards do. Then you're trying to understand what's going on on the board, and, I'm sorry, what the cards do. Then you try to understand what's going on on the board, and finally you understand strategy. But you have to learn the first before you get to the second. You have to learn the second before you get to the third. Okay, so the idea of lenticular design, halfway to work, I haven't even got to actually define lenticular design yet. So I was working in New World Order,

and I was trying to figure out how to lower complexity. When I made the following discovery, you have to be very how to lower complexity. When I made the following discovery, you have to be very careful about comprehension complexity because if beginners don't understand the card, you're doomed. So you have to be extra careful about comprehension complexity.

Board complexity, well, you've got to be careful because at some point they get to board complexity and that you'll make states they don't understand. There's certain types of board complexity you can get, but in general, you have to be careful because at some point they get to board complexity and that you'll make states they don't understand. So there's certain types of board complexity you can get, but in general you have to be careful of board complexity. Ah, but you get to strategic complexity. Strategic complexity up to a certain point is pretty invisible to the beginning player. And by the time they can see it, they're no longer beginning players. And the perfect example is that a lightning bolt or a direct

damage spell. Often what you see is when you give a beginner a direct damage spell, they love to just do it to the opponent. They know the point of the game. They get from 20 down to 0. You know, you give them a spell and I hit my opponent, they're lower,

I'm that much closer to winning. And only at the time do they start to understand that, oh, well, until the clock on my opponent matters, until I'm close enough that maybe I can beat them, doing the damage to the face isn't worth it. That it's more valuable to use that to deal with creatures early on than it is to deal with the opponent. Well, barring the deck, their decks actually want to go into the face. with creatures early on than it is to deal with the opponent.

But barring the deck, their decks actually want to go into the face. And so what I realized was that when I was thinking about complexity, I started to realize that not everybody sees the cards the same. And what that meant was that as people look at cards, they gauge them based on the lenses they have of what they can understand. look at cards, they gauge them based on the lenses they have of what they can understand. So what that meant was, there were some cards that might be simple to one player, but difficult to another. Now, obviously, the more advanced player receives things simpler. They're better players. So I could take a card that for a beginner might be somewhat complex, but to an advanced player would be pretty simple. But, instead of the particular design, it's interesting, I figured out something else.

Some cards were seen by advanced players as being more complex than by beginning players. And my example there was Black Cat. I don't think Black Cat was a card actually, because Black Cat was in Dark Ascension. I figured it was done before then. But the thing that made me pick out Lenticular Design was watching someone play. What we do is sometimes we get people in other sections of the company

to come up for a play test. So we can see, you know, R&D is very, very hardcore. A lot of them came from the Pro Tour. Die-hard Magic players. And sometimes you want a more casual player. Just, I love first impressions. And so you want a more casual player. I love first impressions. And so sometimes we get people from other sections of the company that know Magic

but aren't nearly as invested and get their impressions. And I was watching them play, and they had a creature with a death trigger. I used Black Cat as my example. The reason, by the way, that I love using Black Cat whenever I talk about lenticular design is one of the online media people that does our graphics made this awesome Black Cat graphic that's a lenticular looking card where you bend and the cat sort of does

like looks 3D and it's so awesome that I love making them put that that graphic on so whenever I talk about lenticular design I always talk about Black Cat but anyway, the one that made me learn it was I was watching a player with a death trigger and I don't remember what it might be the one that made me learn it was, I was watching a player with a death trigger.

And I don't even know what, it might be in the article I talk about what's the goblin? Fester and Goblin. Fester and Goblin's a 1-1 B-1-1, 1 black mana, 1-1 when it dies, target creature gets minus 1 minus 1. And I watched them

there was somebody attacked with a 2-2 and they had a 1-1. They didn't want their creature to die. So they didn't block. So the person kept doing 2 damage to them. Finally,

they felt they had a block. They chomped with the Festering Goblin, a 2-2. And then after it died, they used the minus one, minus one to kill one of their opponent's 1-1 creatures. And then it dawned on me, it was invisible to them

that they had the ability with this 1-1 Festering Goblin to kill a 2-2 creature. And the reason was, the way they thought about the card was, I play this creature, I have a 2-2 creature. And the reason was, the way they thought about the card was, I play this creature, I have a 1-1. When it dies, something cool happens. I get a present.

I'll open that present when the creature dies. They don't think about it. Like, we're an advanced player, like, the fact that you get minus one, minus one, like, yeah, you're blocking the 2-2 creature because you can kill the creature. That the ability of the death trigger is connected to the ability.

It's part of the card and you can use them in conjunction. That's not how the player was playing at all. And what I realized was they liked the card. It was fun. You know, they could play it

and it did something and it died and they got a little something and they were happy to get something. It killed the creature. They were happy. But the idea that the creature and its effect had any synergy with each other

was invisible to them. And that's when I realized that to that player, that card was simpler. Because to that player, what do you do with it? You play it when you can, when you have enough mana to cast it. For black mana, you play it. When the creature dies, it dies,

and then something happens, and you use it when it happens. But they never think about how to use it in conjunction where the idea of the death trigger matters. And that's when I realized that, oh, in their mind, to beginning player, that was a much simpler card because they didn't have to think about the interaction between the two. And that's when I started realizing that when we thought about complexity, we had to stop thinking

about complexity. Like for a while, I think I was thinking about complexity as a scale. Like a card is just so complex. You know, it's a one to a ten. And I understood there was adjustment for advanced players, but the thought process was just, well, you know, the scale, as you get better, just you see things as being higher up or lowered on the scale. What might be a four complexity to a beginning player might only be a one complexity to an advanced player. That's how I was thinking of it. And what I realized is, oh, no, no, no, no, no. The reason you look at complexity is, what are they thinking about? And that it's possible

for an advanced player to think more about something than the beginning player did. And that, I mean, and that by the way, that is a pretty I mean, let me stress this concept. This concept is kind of the cornerstone of lenticular design. Which is

that when you are addressing complexity in your audience, you have to think of each section of the audience differently, and that your beginning player isn't... There are certain things that are invisible to a beginning player. And that is crucial, because what that means is that... Essentially what it means is, I'm trying to... The whole idea of New World Order says,

I want to take complexity out of common so that I'm not making the game more complex for people learning how to play. But lenticular design taught me that some things are invisible. And what that means is, it's not that I need to keep common actually complex free, I need to keep it complex complex-free. I need to keep it complex-free as the beginner sees it. Right? My goal is not, once again, it's not that I have a scale and common has to be at a certain complexity overall.

Common has to be at a certain complexity for a beginning player. Meaning I want them to look at it and it look like a 1 or a 2 or a 3 something on the low end of the spectrum the funny thing is and one of the things that I've discovered is some of the best mechanics are ones in which

to the beginning player they seem really straightforward and to the advanced player there's lots of interesting decisions. Like, one of the examples is like, you know, Morbid was a good example.

And Morbid kinds of play into this. One of the reasons I like Morbid was, Morbid says, if a creature's died, I get a bonus. Right? It's from Innistrad. Now, to the advanced player, the answer is, how do I manipulate things such that when I need to, things have died to trigger my Morbid?

Meaning, they think of it as being completely in their control, or more in their control. Where the beginning player is kind of like, when I cast a spell, let's look. But they don't think of it as being in their control. So it's just like, hey, it's a cool bonus if it happens. And in general, that's one of the things that separates the beginners from the advanced players is,

the beginning players, well, so, real quickly, I'm almost to work, and what I realize is this is a complex enough topic that is worthy of two podcasts. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to save tomorrow. I'm going to talk about all the lessons of how do you make things, how do you make things simpler for the beginner and more advanced for the end player.

That's going to be tomorrow. Today I'm just wrapping up. I just want to talk about sort of the key essence of what we've learned so that tomorrow I can talk about how to execute, how to make things lenticular. And really the lesson is understanding the vantage point. And, by the way,

one thing about design that's always cool is one thing leads to another. New World Order made me try to make commons simple or not complex. Which, and what lenticular design made me realize is that I'm actually asking the question wrong. But, by the way,

this is a big, big part I find of the creative process is that a lot of times the big discoveries come when you realize that you asked a question that had more scope than you needed. For example, I was asking, how do you make common

cards complex-free? And the real question I needed to ask was, how do I make them complex-free? And the real question I needed to ask was, how do I make them complex-free for beginners? So, the big question that this has led me to, that each thing opens up, my new discovery now is, lenticular design made me realize

that everybody views the game through their own set of lenses. In fact, the very idea of lenses, that Jesse Schell does a book on game design, where he talks about looking at your game design through different lenses. In fact, the very idea of lenses, Jesse Schell does a book on game design where he talks about looking at your game design through different lenses. And so I'm applying this in a different context, sort of a psychological

context, which is how does your player look at your game? What are the means by which they look at the game? And that when you are I believe when you are designing things, you have to be aware of who you're designing for. And so part of the idea of Lens is understanding, in this particular aspect, what are you trying to do and who are you looking at?

And that what I've learned in Lens Tickler Design has taught me this, is that different cards can be for different players. It's not like each card is only for one player. Each card actually could be for multiple players as long as each player has a vantage point they understand. And so,

I'll make my final point today because I'm just about at work, which is a big part of understanding lenticular design is the concept of lenticular. So what lenticular means, I think I've defined it today,

there's the cards that they're printed in such a way that when you turn them, you see different images. And usually they're done in such a way that the way the brain works, it looks like it's moving because it's looking straight on and looking to the side and then less to the side and then straight on. It looks like it creates motion, a sense of motion. The lenticular design says you have to understand that different people will look at the cards and see different movements of the head. And that you, the designer, kind of have to understand

all the different vantage points. What does a beginner see when they look at this card? What does a medium player see when they look at this card? What does an advanced player see when they look at this card? What does a Johnny see? What does a Timmy see? What does a Spike see? That's the next level, by the way. Today's level is about, because I'm doing complexity,

is about experience level. But what I've learned from this is if you extrapolate out, what you will learn is that you can apply the idea of lenses and how people look at the cards, and you can do that for other things. I'm looking at, right now, experience level,

but imagine looking at it for a psychic graphic or looking at it at, right now, experience level, but imagine looking at it for Psychographic, or looking at it for Vorstros vs. Melvin. There's a lot of different ways you can look at something. And that, it's pretty exciting, because it means that you can... One of the problems we always have when doing design is you only get so many

cards. But as soon as I say, imagine this, that you can design two cards, but have them fill one space. And that, my friends, is quite exciting. Anyway, I've just parked my car. So, I love,

love, love talking about game design and game theory, and I love talking about magic, but even more, I love talking about making magic. So this is a very exciting topic. I'm going to continue this next time. For anybody who's really into game design, this is one of the most exciting things I've done. I'm very, very proud of it.

It has lots of ramifications. Hopefully today I give you a little taste of kind of where it leads us. But anyway, thank you very much for joining me, and I'll talk to you next time.