Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - Drive to Work #1254 - Cameo Mechanics

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

In this podcast, I talk about the use of repeat mechanics on singular card designs.

Okay, we all know what that means. It's time another drive to work. Okay, so today's topic comes from my blog Somebody wanted me to talk about cameo mechanics. So I guess I should start by explaining what our cameo mechanics So cameo mechanics are when we take an old mechanic an existing mechanic and we put it in the set in a very small Dose it's usually on one card Maybe two three cards in most the idea is is just showing up in a very small dosage, usually on one card, maybe two, three cards at most. The idea is it's just showing up in a little tiny bit, but we're referencing action mechanic and using the name. So I'm going to talk about how we started doing that, why we started doing that, and

what rules we have for our cameo mechanics. But first, because I love talking magic history, Let's start by going through the history to get to where we got to Cameo Mechanics. Okay, so in the beginning, we go all the way back to early days of magic. So Richard makes Alpha back in 1993. So I show up full time in 95. And at that point, the rules at the time were,

you know what, we got lots of mechanics, Medigas lots of design space, we don't need to reuse things. So when we would make a mechanic, one of two things would happen. Either it would become evergreen and then any set could use it, or it would be like, okay, we've done that, put it in the pile, let's do new things. And there's a bunch of mechanics like Cune of Upkeep and Rampage. There's a bunch of mechanics that showed up in early sets

and then we try to put them in other sets. And I think we quickly realized that the bar for Evergreen is a pretty high bar. That you have to be pretty elegant and clean, and there has to be a lot of usage for you to get to evergreen. So the idea of the sort of like, I think what we realized was we can't just keep throwing

things on the evergreen pile. And that things like rampage and like tune up upkeep that were for a blink evergreen, it didn't make sense for them to be evergreen. It didn't make sense. So we then said, okay, we're not, we're gonna be much more cautious them to be evergreen. It didn't make sense. So we then said, OK, we're going to be much more cautious about what becomes evergreen.

And it's not that we didn't ever change evergreen mechanics. We introduced fear, and fear became intimidate, which later became menace. Like we would change things. Things would go in and out. Like we would experiment with things in evergreen. But we were pretty careful. Like if we put this into evergreen status,

it's something that really means something. And then we get to onslaught. And I've talked a lot of onslaught in some recent podcasts. I'm not going to go into great detail. The key element here was Bill had asked me to do some work on the set. I wanted to add cycling.

And at the time, it was a big deal, because we didn't bring mechanics back. And eventually, we decided to bring them back. We brought cycling back. And then I think that kind of broke the wall of, OK, mechanics can come back. We have good mechanics.

There's no reason not to bring mechanics back. But the idea was, when we bring mechanics back, we're going to bring the mechanics back as we're going to bring the mechanics back as the, we're going to bring them back and it's going to be an important part of the set. Every set has mechanics and they can be new, they can be repeat mechanics. But if we're going to, so the idea,

the next stage was, okay, we can reuse mechanics, but if we do that, we really want to bring them back in a substantial way. Hey, that's one of the mechanics of the set. It's not evergreen, so if you're not evergreen, you're one of the mechanics of the set. Then we got to time spiral block. So time spiral block, the original idea behind it

was it had a time theme. We introduced suspend and split second and flash got introduced. And the idea was we were messing around with time. And I was really, this was early in my reign as head designer. I was a big believer that blocks had to have very concrete plans. I wanted to do more, like the sets needed to stand apart from each other. So we were doing time, so I was really enamored by the idea

of what if we do past, present, and future, and the present ended up being ultimate reality presence, present didn't mean much in a vacuum. And so, the first set was very much about nostalgia, about the past, so we just brought back a lot of mechanics, way more than we ever had before. Like normally, like early magic would have two named mechanics, and eventually it got to the point

where we did two to four. But, and I don't know exactly what TimeSpiral has in it. TimeSpiral has, we brought eight mechanics, 10 mechanics, we brought back a bunch of mechanics. And really, like us going, oh, it's nostalgia, let's have fun, it was like us going, oh, it's nostalgia, let's have fun. And we really sort of, time has passed us being very, what I call, indulgent.

Like, oh, and we made a lot of cars that were super fun. And if you're really in franchise, we're great. And in future sites, the problems sort of exacerbated. And alas, at future sites, I was really trying to play around with the potential of magic. What could the future of magic be? And one of the things we did is we did a thing called Mix and Match.

So Mix and Match said, what are two cool mechanics in magic history that have never been together? Real quickly, this is my podcast, I tell these stories. Mix and Match, where Mix and Match came from is Match came from is, there used to be a thing called the Magic Invitational, which was kind of the all-star game for Magic. I would run it, and one of the things that was unique about the Magic Invitational is I got to make formats. So one of the formats I made was called Duplicate Seal, where all players played with the same sealed pool. Everybody got the exact same sealed pool. And originally I just used normal cards, but I did duplicate seal every Magic Invitational.

And I started wanting to be a little more creative, so I went to, I think it was Bill Rhodes, it might have been Joel Mick at the time, and said, hey, can I make new cards to put, you know, can I make, if anyone's ever played any unknown event at a Magic Con, this is where this idea came from. I did this for the first time in Magic Invitational. And we had the ability to make stickers, you know, I'm like, you know, could I make cards? So Bill said to me, he goes, yes, but with one caveat. And his one caveat is don't make cards we could just make in a normal set. Don't waste design space, essentially. One of the things that I leaned into, part of it was I did some things that I didn't

think we were doing. One of the big things I did was I made use of, because we didn't bring back mechanics, or if we did bring back mechanics, we brought them back one at a time. I said, oh, what if I brought back two mechanics on the same car? You know, because at the time, in the early days of Invitational, maybe we'd bring back mechanics, but we wouldn't bring back multiple mechanics. Now we'll bring back multiple mechanics. So the idea of having two existing mechanics on the same car that aren't evergreen,

like that wasn't something that was easily going to replicate. And I thought that was pretty cool. So I made a lot of mix andand-match cards for the Impational So when we were making future sites and I was looking for like cool wacky future things I was trying to be very extrapolative meaning I was trying to make designs that came out of things we had done And so one of the ideas that came to me is oh, maybe this is an awesome place for mix-and-match I thought mix-and mix and match were super fun. So, Z Moshewicz was an intern at the time, a pro player in the Hall of Fame, and they

said to Z, here's what I want you to do. Go take every mechanic, and I want to find the mechanics that work well together. And so he took all the mechanics, he made a chart, and basically he gave them a grading from one to five. Five meant amazing combos. The synergy is amazing. And one meant, Nambo, doesn't work. These things don't even work together.

And he made me a list of all the fives, the fours, the threes, the twos, and the ones. And then we ended up putting all the fives, I think all the fours, and some of the threes, I believe. But anyway, we did a bunch of mix and match. We should have done all the fives. Maybe we... I'm not sure we did all the fours and some of the threes, I believe. But anyway, we did a bunch of mixture match. We should have done all the five. I'm not sure we did all the fours. But anyway, he came up with a list. We made the list, we put them in.

So there were a lot of one-up mechanics there. And then we were also doing future shift of cards. So we took mechanics that we just tweaked. And so some of them were mechanics. Either some of the were kind of either somewhat poison we brought back, people didn't think we'd bring it back, some were like, we did grave storm, which was like a tweak on a storm. So we did a lot, anyway, so the stat I use is if you counted up the number of mechanics

that existed in Magic named mechanics mechanics, before FutureSight. And then you counted the number of named mechanics in FutureSight. They were almost the same number. I think the existing number might have been like, I think FutureSight was like three or four short of that number. But anyway, there was a huge number of things. We did a lot, we brought back a lot of things. Time Spiral did some, Flame Shift did some, Appendix Chaos did some, but FutureSite went overboard.

And one of the big takeaways that we got from Time Spiral Block is, and I've talked about this, one of the stats we check, we look at how well things sell, we also look at how many people are playing with the sanction events, like how many people are playing with distinction, sanctioned events, how many people are playing with it. So before Time Spiral, the health of the sales and the number of games being played and things should play tended to trend together. Oh, a lot of people are playing this set, it sells well. Time Spiral for the

first time, it was tracking well in play, but it wasn't tracking well in sales. And that was the discovery of what we call the invisible, which is there are a lot of players that we don't see. There's enfranchised players that play in sanctioned play or play in digital play that we have access to that we can see, but there's a much, much larger group of players that aren't. And the big lesson of time spiral block was this idea of vocabulary comes at a cost. That for an enfranchised player, say, hey, I'm bringing back a mechanic you love, there's very little cost there. They already know the information. In fact, there's, in some some ways for the enfranchised player, when we put the keyword on it, it makes it easier to

understand. Because you go, oh yeah, I've learned what that keyword means. As soon as they see the keyword, I don't have to read the card. Because the keyword is shorthand. But for a new player, and this is the problem we found with TimeSpiral and the whole block, is let's say I'm a new player, and this is probably the problem with Time Spiral and the whole block is, let's say I'm a new player, well normally Magic has two to four new mechanics. I mean nowadays we might have a little more than that, but you know there's some number of new mechanics, but like I believe if you were a new player playing Time Spiral, there were like ten new mechanics. And if you played Future Sight, there was forty new mechanics,

I mean there, it was 40 new mechanics. And that's one of the things that really hit home, is this idea that, OK, vocabulary means something. There's a cost of vocabulary. That, yes, it is nice for in franchise players to have a vocabulary because they're already using it. It really is a barrier for new players. And that we needed to be careful with that.

Now, the following year was Lorwin Block. In Lorwin Block, in Morning Tide, and this was on my shoulders, in Lorwin, I had, we cared about different species, goblins, elves, merfolk. Then in Morning Tide, I made us care about classes, warrior, wizard. And so the idea was, I'm like, oh, well, creatures have, a lot of creatures have multiple creature

types. So we could, you know, we could care about this one here and that one there and have all these depths. But it ended up making this really complex network that was very hard for people to track, which led to Matt Place and I creating what we call New World Order. You know, a whole podcast on New World Order. Really the idea is, look, for new players and make barrier of entry easier,

we really have to pull back how complex common is. And it really made us, so New World Order was important for us with that, look, common has to be as easy as we can make it. Uncommon, we should be careful, can be more complex than common. And rare and mythic rare, look, the average new player does not get a lot of exposure to rare and mythic rare. There's one in each pack versus, at the time, ten commons and three uncommon in a land.

So the idea was that mostly they're experienced opening a pack of commons. That's what New World Order is built on. And we had a look at Hong Kong, and it made us re-look at how all the rarities worked, what complexity was, and a lot of New World Order is, look, there's a complexity that comes, and a New World Order, I should say, wasn't just a matter of the creature types in Lorwin.

It also took into account all the stuff we've learned from Time Spiral. The net answer was, magic is a complex game, and that's okay, it's something people enjoy about it, but we have to be careful. And we want to make sure that the entry level experience is not so, we don't want to make a barrier. Time Spiral was just less experienced players were just bouncing off Time Spiral block.

And some of them were bouncing off Lora One block. And so we're like, oh, okay. So anyway, so we said, we made a conscious effort and we said, you know what? We're going to be much more careful with what we do. Now roughly around that time, not exactly sure, we didn't start taking up the concept of what we call deciduous. And what deciduous meant is, look, evergreen meant, okay, we can have this mechanic almost every step.

Evergreen means like most steps. Maybe everyone's in the blue moon for a specific reason something's not there but barring a rare exception ever give mechanics are there all the time that's kind of nature of evergreen that it's always it's always around it's never great but I realized that there were some things that were cool that made sense and the one that comes to mind, I'm not sure necessarily this was the one that cemented it, but the one that was very loud in my mind was in Ravnica block, original Ravnica block, which is right before Time Crayola block, though all these discoveries happened at the same time. I introduced hybrid mana,

I made hybrid mana, and I realized, like, we brought hybrid mana back in Shadowmour, which was after Lorwin. But after we brought it back, one of the things you tend to do early with new things is you lean into them for splash. It's like, oh, this is a cool new thing. So in Raven in the Block, I think we had three, we had a vertical cycle of each of the hybrid banner. And relative to the guild that it was in.

So there were 12 in Ravnica, and there were nine and nine in other two sets. If the guild showed up, you got a vertical cycle. Vertical cycle meant a common, uncommon, and a rare. Sometimes a mythic rare, but it means one in each rarity, usually. And then in Shadammore, we did this thing where half the set was a hybrid.

Probably shouldn't have been less than half. But anyway, about half the set was hybrid. And so the idea was that was also using it in a very splashy way. That we could craft a whole environment out of it. In Shadowmore, you could draft monocolor. That's not something you can easily draft. In fact, Shadowmore is like, if you want to draft monocolor you 100% could, every time. There's not a lot of format. That's

always true. It was true in Shadowmore. But after Shadowmore, what I realized was that hybrid was this neat tool. It wasn't something that was ever agreed in the sense that we needed to put it in every set. Every set didn't need it. But I didn't want to say, well, you can only use hybrid mana when it's a major factor. Like, it was clear that hybrid mana had this functionality. Like, we should use it where we needed to use it. So there's another interesting story here.

So Ice Age introduced what we call cantrips. So cantrips, as introduced in Ice Age, the card will let you draw a card at the beginning of the next turn, basically. We quickly figured out that just running the card will let you draw a card at the beginning of the next turn basically. We quickly figured out that just throwing the card right away was fine. The reason the Ice Age people didn't do that was there was a card bubble, versus a bubble of things, where you got to play it right away and it'd extend out your deck if that lead drew the card right away. So that one card wanted to be delayed so they made all of them delayed.

But we later realized that cantrips were very effective. Mostly what a cantrip means is, it means draw a card. So if we say I spell the cantrip, it does whatever it does and it draws a card. And the idea that you replace the card you play is very interesting. Generally it costs about two mana to replace the card. So if you want to cantrip something, if you take the normal cost and add two generic mana, roughly roughly is that, there's reasons it can be less, but roughly is about two generic mana. Anyway, so when we first came up with cantrips Bill's take on them was, oh, this is a special thing. We shouldn't do them all the time. And so

I remember in Earth's Decider Block, for example, he said, no, we're going to hold it back so we can bring it back to be exciting. And so I came up with the free mechanic because we couldn't do cantrip. So the free mechanic is a mechanic where you get to un-tap land equal to the number, but it tells you how many land you get un-tap, which is equal to the mana value of the card. That got broken. It essentially went on cantrip. which is equal to the band of values of the card. That got broken. Anyway, and then it eventually came to the conclusion that cantrips were a tool.

We should just use cantrips where we want to use cantrips. Cantrips aren't better if we save them up for one set. Cantrips are better if we use them where we need to. It's a costing mechanism, much like hybrid is a costing mechanism. And so we started realizing, if we had this class of things we called deciduous. And what deciduous meant is, look,

every magic sense should have access to these things, but they're not everywhere in the sense that we don't think every set needs to have them. And the rough idea of deciduousness in general is, or at the time, was, look, we're not gonna do all the deciduous things at once. It's, the idea is not that it's every, look, we're not going to do all the deciduous things at once. The idea is not that it's every decision again, but it's like, oh, I can pick and choose from deciduous if it makes sense.

Then there wasn't a limit on deciduousness, but the general idea was, look, we've got to be conscious of how many words we're introducing. When you use any vocabulary word that the beginning player doesn't know, that's the vocabulary word. You have to be conscious of that. Okay, the next big evolution of our story is the commander mechanic. So the real quick history of this is there was a group of players, I believe in Alaska, that made a variant which they called Elder Dragon Highlander, EDH, and Sheldon Mennery was stationed, he was in the military, he was stationed in Alaska

and he met with him, he started playing magic with him. They introduced him to this format. He really liked the format, he made a few changes to it, but he enjoyed the format. He made a few changes to it, but he enjoyed the format. So when he would come to the pro tour to judge, he was a head judge, he judged, sometimes he was a head judge. When he came to the pro tour, he introduced this format to the judges. And for a while, after the pro tour was over, this is the format that judges would play. And little by little, in caught on. Some of the pros would see it and play it. It just slowly built momentum.

And eventually, so we used to do a product every year we called the experimental product, where we would just do something different. Sometimes it would be an unset, it could be plane shift, or conspiracy, the different things. And the idea was that we just tried different things. We tried things, and so this format, it picked up a little bit of speed.

And so it said, you know what, let's make some commander nets. We made five commander nets. And they went over like gangbusters. And I think it was a combination of, there's someone just inherent, it's a fun format. And Wizards started actually promoting the format. We called it Commander. And we had such success that first year, we put out a product the next year. And then after that, the next year was a rush thing, our timetable, the

way we worked, we worked here. So we did something quickly. But two years later we made more decks. And from that year forward, every year we've made commander decks. Then we started making commander decks per product. And we started making a lot more commander decks. But it became a really big means by which to promote a more casual-sized Magic. But one of the things that happened in Commander that is Commander is a format that has access to most of the cards in Magic, the combat cards, but most of the cards in Magic. And so the nature of Commander was, hey, there's just a lot

of the vocabulary of commander was just higher. That if you're going to play commander, you're playing many, many years. Now it's 30 plus at the time of the story, 20 plus, but you're playing a lot of different mechanics. And so when they were making the commander decks, originally I think the earliest commander decks, I think, I'm trying to remember, I did not build a lot of commander decks, so

I think early on they just used Evergreen, then I think they used Evergreen Deciduous, and then I thought they like, okay we do Evergreen Deciduous and we can introduce one or two new mechanics, and then eventually they said, you know what, it's just fine if we have a cool mechanic, it's okay if we can have one-ups. I want to make this cool card, this cool card is referencing the thing. No, I guess I should point out. We had a rule at the time that said, let's say we'll make a magic set and we'll name something.

Landfall is a good example. Landfall is a fresh odd dice. It's a ability word that says, when you play a land, something happens. It's not a key word. It's an ability word. It's an italic, meaning the card works without the ability word.

So if we would make a card with landfall, not innocent about landfall, it's just one card, what we tend to do is just write it out and not label it. And we would get some feedback from the more franchise players like that's just landfall, why don't you call it landfall? And likewise, there was a period of time when we had cycling and then we, Brian Tinsman made a variant of it in a set.

And the idea was you could discredit your car to go get a basic land. And I remember saying to him, well, this is just cycling, except instead of drawing a random car, you're getting basic land. What if we just call it land cycling, or basic land cycling? And so we ended up, rather than give it a new name,

we tied it into cycling because one of my big beliefs is, hey, if things work the same, let's use similar vocabulary, then people aren't learning whole new vocabulary for the same thing. If you ever heard me gripe about how I think scry and surveil should not be due to forest, basically the same concept. But anyway, so at the time, in the main set,

if we were making a mechanic that we had named in the past, but that wasn't a key thing to the set, we wouldn't name it in the main set. So if we made one landfall card, we wouldn't label it landfall. So early commander decks, I think, took the same strategy. And then at some point someone said, why can't we just call it Landfall?

The audience for this is not beginning players. The audience for this is franchise players that play a format where they're playing lots and lots of stuff. Like why are we still just, you know, the audience of this product will like it more if we just use the name. And so they went and got permission. They just started using the name. And so they went and got permission, they just started using the name.

And then, as is the case in magic design, things snowballed. Like once you could do it once, you could do it twice. And then eventually it just became, hey, the thing we do in Commander. That if we want to use a mechanic and use it once, great, that's fun. And that there's a lot of mechanics out there

that are hard for us to bring back, because there's a lot, there's not a lot of design space left in them. But there might be space for one card. Why can't Commander make that card? So they did. So Commander followed this pattern of just, so Commander really introduced the concept of cameos.

Hey, we're gonna bring old mechanics back, we're gonna do them as one-ofs, we're not, like, it's not necessarily a main theme of what we're doing, it's not necessarily a main theme of the deck, it's just one or a few cards being brought back. And so we did that for a while, it was very hot, people liked that. So, I don't know, I did not do my research to remember what set and what core set, not core set, what premier set was the first set to have a cameo in it. But I know at one point we were working on something and there was a card, it was either a rare or mythic rare, and the idea is, look, this card just does this thing.

It just does this mechanic. And we could spell it out, but you know what? I think it was a mythic rare, but it's a mythic rare. The people, like, beginners are not, most likely not going to see this. It shows up so infrequently. And for the advanced players, it was a mythic rare, but it's a mythic rare. Beginners are most likely not going to see this. It shows up so infrequently. And for the Inventorized player, it would be so much easier if we just say what it is. And so we said, oh, OK, it's a mythic rare. It's aimed at a different player. That makes sense. And this is the case in Magic Design.

Once you do something once, you start getting the ball rolling. And so again, I mean, next time it was a rare or something. And so the idea was, look, some of what we aim at is aimed at, we have to think about beginning players. It's important. There's a lot of players, and not even, you keep saying beginner. There's a lot of players that are less advanced players. Some of them might have been playing for 10 years. So when I say a beginning player, that implies that he's just started playing.

What I really mean is a less enfranchised. There's a lot of players that play very casually that, look, there's a lot of rules they don't know and there's a lot of things that, you know, and vocabulary is very meaningful to that group of players. But, look, there's also a lot of players, much like some of the commander players, who really do enjoy that it's fun to bring back and do one-ups. Like sometimes we make a cool card and like,

I don't know if we're bringing this mechanic in a big way, maybe there's not enough design for it, but man, there's just one design that's really awesome, it's super flavorful. And like, why, it'd be really cool if we did that. And I think what we realized is Commander had really sort of educated us that like, there was what RG calls the rule of cool, right? Sometimes you do something and like, look, there's a lot of equity in something just

being cool and that you want to be careful that you don't let your rules kind of lock out you being able to do cool things. And so what we said is, okay, let's walk through why we've been so careful about bringing back one of. And a lot of what we said was, look, a lot of it is about just the barrier to entry and the vocabulary issue of just overwhelming people. We don't want to time spiral again. And no, by the way, Modern Horizons was just us saying, hey, there's an audience for this kind of thing, and we should be able to make products for them.

It should not premiere sets, and that's why we made Modern Horizons. There's an audience for a more advanced, there's lots of different mechanics going on. Also, by the way, I think the success of Modern Horizons, because Modern Horizons also did a lot of cameos. I guess probably I should have brought Modern Horizons up before I get to this part. But Modern Horizons also did a lot of cameos. It was really fun.

And so I think we said, OK, we understand the reason we want to be careful with vocabulary is there's a level of players that's going to get overwhelmed. But there's also players, there's some franchise players that really do enjoy the vocabulary. That it would be very fun for them to see this mechanic come back on one card in a cool way. So what we said is, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to sort of draw a line. And the line we drew is we said, okay, commons and uncommons are much more about limited play and about exposure. That if I'm opening a booster pack,

that's the vast majority of what I see, is the commons and uncommons. OK, we're going to hold the line at commons and uncommons. We're going to say, look, the mechanics that are going to show up in commons and uncommons are every big mechanics, a small number of deciduous mechanics we think are simple enough, and the mechanics of the set, the set mechanics. And even then, there are some mechanics, some mechanics that we don't put at commons.

There are even some mechanics that we don't put at commons or uncommons. But the idea is that we're limiting how many mechanic names, vocabulary shows up at the lower rarities, at what is the major exposure to the pack. But at rare, at mythic rare, which is more designed for constructed, which is more designed for the enfranchised player, let's do what the enfranchised player wants. And so we said, okay, we're going to do cameos. And like I said, as always, this is the case, let us do it once. It will definitely snowball. And so we're definitely doing more cameos than we used to.

We are being very careful where we do cameos. Oh, and another big thing about cameos is there's a big difference between this is not a hard concept to understand. It is just something we don't normally do and haven't done in a while. And this is a complicated mechanic. We are careful when we cameo.

Mutate is not a great cameo mechanic. It is complicated and hard to understand. Now, maybe, maybe we cameoed in a modern horizon like that for advanced players, but the other thing we said about cameo mechanics is we want to make sure that we're doing something that you can read the card and understand the card. There's some mechanics that are complex enough

you really need enough of them in the set to sort of like it's worth the energy of learning what's going on. On one rare, one mythic rare, that is, so, cameo means we can bring things back, we want to be careful what we bring back, how we bring it back, and we tend to restrict it to rares and mythic rares. Like I said, the fuzzy area is we have some number of things in the deciduous category, some of that deciduous stuff like landfall, light kicker. There's some things that we do believe is organic enough and simple enough into the game that

we do want access to it and that stuff can occasionally show up, use it uncommon. But so anyway, so that is a general, that is in one drive's worth of a podcast, the Cameo Mechanics. There's a lot of evolution over time, that's why I thought this was interesting, a little history of, it took a lot of changes. But anyway, that is where we are now. We can bring back mechanics, we can bring back names,

there are restrictions of when and where and how, but it is something that is on the table and that actually we are doing quite a bit these days. So anyway, I hope you guys enjoyed my talk about Cameo Mechanics, but I am now at work. So we all know what that means, it means the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. I'll see you all next time. Bye bye.