Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - Drive to Work #173 - White Blue

Episode Date: November 7, 2014

Mark Rosewater explains the design philosophies of the white/blue color combination.

I'm pulling up a driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for another drive to work. Okay, so today I'm going to start a new series that people have been asking me to do for quite a while. So way back when I did a series on color philosophies, did five different series, one for each color. And people were like, when are you going to do the two color podcasts? Well, today is the start of the two-color podcast, and I'm going to begin with white-blue. So what I'm going to do when I do these, they're not going to be consecutive. I'll do them over time. It's a series, and I'll go in Woburg order. So what that means is I'll do the ally card starting with white. So today will be white-blue. So

it goes white-blue, blue-black, black-red, red, green, green, white. And then I will do the enemy colors, which will be white, black, blue, red, black, green, red, white, green, blue. So that's the order of the series for those that care. So the idea here is that I want to talk about what the two colors have in common and what the two colors don't have in common. So I'm going to sort of talk about each two colors. But obviously, I have a whole podcast about what the colors colors don't have in common. So I'm going to sort of talk about each two colors, but obviously I have a whole podcast about what the colors represent unto themselves. So this podcast is talking about, let's examine what each color wants, and look why there's overlap, and look why there are conflicts.

Now obviously, if you are ally colors, you're more likely to have more in common than against each other. And if you're enemies, you're more likely to be against them together. But no matter if you're ally or enemy, you know, each color believes different things. So every color has agreements and disagreements with every other color. So today we begin with white and blue. And white and blue are allied colors. So obviously they have more in common than they have against each other, but they have both. Okay, so let's talk today. Let's start with what do they have in common. As their allies, you know, a bit.

Okay, so what does white want? White wants peace. How does White want to get peace? Through structure. So basically what's going on is White is like, I would just like the whole world to get along. We have the resources and the means such that everybody can be happy. We should take the steps to do that.

And White is very much about wanting to help the group as a large. Blue wants perfection, and it wants to do it through knowledge. Blue is like any individual has the ability to do whatever they want. The only thing that stops you is not knowing how to do it. Well, if you learn how to do it, then you can become whatever you want to become. So blue and white have different goals, but they overlap. Okay, let's start where they overlap. For starters, white and blue both want to create change. White wants to help the group. And blue wants to advance, not just on the individual.

I mean, where blue and white overlap, for starters, is that just like blue wants to perfect the individual, blue also wants to perfect the group. So remember, blue is sitting in between white and black. So one of the things I always say is, one of the ways to find internal conflicts to the colors is to look at the two colors that they're allies with. Because every color, their allies are opposed to each other. So blue's allies are white and black. What does that mean? Well, white's very much about the group, and black's very much about the individual. Blue is kind of in the middle.

much about the group and black is very much about the individual. Blue is kind of in the middle. Blue believes in perfection for both the individual and for the group. So when you get to white, the overlap between white and blue is blue wants to better the group. That's part of what blue wants to do. White wants to better the group, blue wants to better the group. Now, blue also wants to better the individual, and blue and black can agree there, but let's talk about blue and white today. Now, white is sitting in between blue and green. So blue and green have a conflict, right? Blue and green's conflict is the nature-nurture conflict.

Blue believes that you have the ability to become whatever you want. Green believes that inherently, within you, there is, you know, what you have comes from within. It's not something you gain, it's something you were born with. It's in your genes, it's in your makeup, it's in who you are. And white has a little of that. White definitely believes that you have the ability to change things externally, but white also believes that there's internal truths, things that just are.

Okay, so as you can see, as I label things and start setting up, you can start seeing where the conflicts come, but we'll get to the conflicts in a second. Okay, so where do they agree? Well, white leans toward the blue side in believing that people have the ability to create change. White does believe in the ability to change,

and blue is all about change. Blue believes in the group, and that white is all about the group. So that's where they start to lean together, is how can we perfect society? That how can we use the tools available to us to make society a better place? And that the way to think of this is blue-white when they get together is like, we want to

create a perfect society. What can we do? What steps can we take? How can we, through knowledge, improve society for everybody? How can we make everybody's lives better? So this is where blue and white get together. So now, I'll say that there's a positive and a negative for this way.

The positive side of blue and white is they honestly, honestly goodness, blue and white wants to make a better world. They believe it's capable to make a better world. They want to make a better world. The downside is that what white and blue believe is a better world, they want to make a better world. The downside is that what white and blue believe is the better world isn't necessarily what everybody else believes is a better world. Because white and blue make use of the tools at their disposal to help make a better

world. So one of those tools, obviously, is the structure of white, right? So if you look at the tools each, the blue has the tools of knowledge and white has the tool of structure. That's how they get their job done. Well, blue and white use the combination of knowledge with structure. Now, positively, that means that we can use all the resources we have to create structures that will improve society as a whole. structures that will improve society as a whole. You know, when you use the knowledge of blue combined with the structure of white, you create very, you know, structure can lead toward change. You know, structure can make things better.

That if you want society to act a certain way, well, if you set up rules and laws to do that, you can guide society in the direction you want. So a positive view in white and blue is they are trying to make a better world, and they are trying to use the tools at their disposal to make it a better world. The critics of white and blue will go, hey, who are they to decide

what the better world is? Who are they to decide what the rules are? You know, and the people, so the easiest way to look at the opponent is there's one color that allied colors have a shared enemy. So let's take, it's red in this case. So blue and white are both enemies of red. So if you want to see blue, white in a bad light, you look at red.

Red sees white, blue as fascist. Red sees white, blue as just creating a complex rule of laws that are, you know, and using intellect as a weapon and, you know, red just wants to do what it wants to do and live free and, you know, have everybody have

the emotional freedom that it wants and that people can just follow their hearts and do what they want. But white-blue, oh, no, no, no. White-blue looks down on that.

They stick their nose up at it and they try to create rules and laws to prevent red from doing that. They want to keep red locked up within their rules. They're the man. They want to keep red down. Now, on the positive side, I think white-blue very much is trying to do what it considers to be best for all. I don't think white-blue, I mean, obviously you can interpret anything.

I mean, there is a white-blue that can be very controlling in a bad way. But I believe white-blue in their mind that they're trying to figure out how to improve things and that the combination of white's rules with blue's intellect and blue's sense of knowledge is that they're trying to figure out what they can do that will help everybody. Now remember, White left his own resources is trying to create a larger structure to keep everybody safe

and keep everybody on equal footing. Blue, on the other side, Blue definitely understands the idea of merit and the value of merit and this is where you know blue obviously is also allied with black right um so let's talk a little bit about the conflict as we get into this so blue believes that you know part of making a society better is understanding that some people in the society are better at things than other people in society. And blue definitely leans toward meritocracy. Is that the right word?

Well, where those who have the merit should be ruling. Like why, you know, white, for example, very much believes in democracy. White is like, everybody should have a voice. Everybody should say what they want. And in fact, when you lean to white-green, when you get to something like Selesnya, you know, the white-green combination, they're like, literally, like everybody should have equal say. Everybody in the group should have equal say. Where white-blue, blue definitely believes that you want to lean toward the people that are the most knowledgeable. And so when white and blue get together, blue pulls white a little bit more toward the idea that you're trying to benefit everybody,

but trying to benefit everybody doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's always treated equally. Now, that's where some of the conflict comes between blue and white. Now, that's where some of the conflict comes between blue and white. So, like I said, one of the ways to show conflict is each color believes in, has an ally with an enemy of the other one. So, blue allies with white, but it's also allies with black. White is allies with green, but also allies with blue, right? So, the black part of blue, the black-leaning part of blue, is where white gets in conflict with blue, and the green-leaning part of white is where blue gets in conflict with white.

So the black-leaning part of blue is this idea that, you know what, individuals need to be advanced. That just like I'm trying to perfect the group, I'm also trying to perfect the individuals. And you know what that might mean? Some individuals deserve different rights than other individuals. And so what Blue really pulls on against White is Blue believes that certain individuals have, you know, that everybody isn't exactly equal. Because Blue's goal is not equality. Blue's goal is advancing society and creating perfection. So Blue said, you know what? These subset of people are just

smarter. They probably could run things better. These other people, they're idiots. Let's let the smart people run it and not the idiots. And White is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Why are you judging? You know, just because this group is smarter than that group doesn't mean that it's better in any way. Everyone has their own values and their own things, and that, fine, maybe these people are smarter, but maybe these people have more understanding or more compassion, you know, that everybody has different attributes, and you shouldn't value certain attributes over the other attributes. Blue, though, looks at this, and Blue's sort of like,

okay, look, I got tests I can run. Everybody's not equal. I know everybody's not equal. If you pretend that everybody's not equal. If you pretend that everybody's equal and act as such, you are not maximizing your ability to perfect things. If you do not play into the strengths, Blue believes, look, test people, understand their strengths. Person A, he's good at this.

Person B's better at that. Is person A better at leading than person B? Yes, yes they are. And Blue very much analyzes things and says, look, this person's better than that person. But white's whole take on it is, okay, blue, this is the influence of black on you. You very much want to prioritize some needs over other people's needs, and that is dangerous.

Be careful with that, blue. Don't do that. Meanwhile, green, being the ally of white, green is all about the idea of inherent truth. That you are just born a certain way.

You know, green doesn't believe that you can change. Green believes that you have to accept who you are. That you are who you are. You're born who you are. Green believes in destiny. So, the white part that leads toward green you are, that you are who you are. You're born who you are. Green believes in destiny. So the white part that leads toward green is white believes that there are certain constants. There are certain givens. For example, white believes that morality is not a subjective thing, that morality is objective. There are rights and there are wrongs, and those are inherent.

There are rights and there are wrongs, and those are inherent, you know. And that is something that, you know, you can't, I mean, as far as white is like, there's no questioning whether there's good and evil. There is good and evil, you know. And so blue is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, white, white, white. Why are you assuming, you know, why are you pre-assuming anything? You know, maybe there are things that lean toward good or lean toward evil, but do we know of an inherent good and evil?

You know, and that blue is much more willing to question things. And as soon as white says, no, no, no, I know this to be a truth, blue's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. How do you know this to be a truth? Have we studied it? Do we know it?

You know, and white, for example, is very big on faith, which leans toward green. White believes there are things that are just unprovable. And blue, blue's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, unprovable, you know. So blue very much believes in the sense of everything is provable. That blue, blue believes that intellect is the most important thing, that knowledge is valuable, and that you have to understand things to wrap your head around them.

The idea that you'll blindly believe something is antithetical to what blue is up to. So when, it sees white kind of believing some stuff without,

without any backing. You know, because when white leaned toward green, white leans toward spirituality. Green is very spiritual. You know, um, you know, blue is trying to improve

and green is being very spiritual. And religion has both those qualities to it. You know, religion very much is trying to it is, says, hey, we can move toward a better place. People came to come better. So blue, it does have a blue aspect to it, but it also has a green aspect to it, which is

a sense of spirituality, a sense of there are the way things are, and you have to accept the way things are. So, like, blue and white, like I said, they definitely get together, and they understand a shared belief. But at the same time, they have their differences. So now, let's look a little bit at when they work together. So let me talk about mechanical overlap. So when blue and white get together, what do blue and white have in common?

Now, the interesting thing is, from a creature type standpoint, they don't have a lot in common. They obviously have the top two flying colors. So, I mean, that's one, which is blue and white are... So for a long time, blue was the best flying color, and white was number two. And then we realized that we just needed more out of flying, and that the problem was blue wasn't supposed to have efficient small flyers. But white, which was the army-building color that did have efficient small creatures, it did make sense. So what ended up happening was white ended up getting the slightly stronger flyers, especially at the smaller levels.

Where blue tended to get the larger flyers, blue gets bigger flyers at lower rarities. And the idea is that white and blue are both blue colors. White has the slightly better creatures from a power level, especially at the smaller end, especially at common, where blue is more easily able to grant flying. Not that white can't do some, but blue does it more often and usually slightly more effectively than white. But anyway, so white and blue are the flying cowards. White and blue also overlap in that blue is center of counterspelling.

White gets a little bit of counterspelling. White has, um, taxing. Uh, and so white, for example, can do, like, I will counter your spell unless you pay a little amount. Doesn't do a lot of it, but it can get in that ballpark. Um, white also has proactive spells that counter things proactively. Like, I will name something and then stop you from being able to do it. White is much more proactive in its counterspelling, where blue is more reactive. White is kind of like, I will set up the rules, and the rules I set up might keep you from doing things, where blue is more like, if you do something I don't like, I will stop it.

Blue and white also overlap at flickering so flickering is the term for taking something permanent removing it and then bringing it back and there's what we call insta-flickering which is you bring it back right away and there's normal flickering where you bring it back in to turn and that white and blue

both have the ability to do the flickering white and blue also are the two most defensive colors. White and blue tend to have the most defenders. White and blue more often will have low toughness, really high power, things to block. It's very common. At common, for example, white and blue are usually the two most likely to have defenders in common. They're the ones that have the defensive nature.

Another place that blue and white definitely overlap philosophically is the idea of, they're the long-term planning colors. You know, their shared enemy is red, which is the short-term planning colors. You know, they're shared enemies of red, which is the short-term planning color. And the idea is, blue is like, intellect's important, you should think through every decision before you make it.

That if you think through every decision, you will make the right decisions. And that you shouldn't rush decision-making. White is all about planning. White believes that because structure is key, you need to plan things out ahead of time. Well, white likes structure and blue likes thinking ahead. Well, we combine those together and you're somebody who plots everything out ahead of time, you know. So Azurius, the white blue, is very much about thinking about what I need to be doing and planning and plotting and

using that strategy to sort of like, one of their beliefs is, I will control the future by controlling the present. That I will set up rules now that get society and things where I want them to be later. Now, one of the interesting things is, blue happens to be king of card advantage. White is the worst at card advantage. White now is very good at answers. So blue has less answers, although blue has answers, but they tend to be reactive.

And blue doesn't destroy things, where white is very good at getting rid of things. White can get rid of any permanent type. Blue can get rid of really no permanent. It can't destroy anything, and it doesn't exile very often. Now, blue does have its tools. It can counter things. It can bounce things. It can't destroy anything. And it doesn't exile very often. Now, blue does have its tools. It can counter things. It can bounce things. It can steal things. It can copy things. You know, blue has a tool

to deal with things, but blue does not have a lot of white's arsenal. But, because white has all the choices of how to destroy things, it's worth a card advantage, because it's sort of like, I have lots of answers, but I don't have the ability to get the card advantage to it's sort of like I have lots of answers but I don't have the ability

to get the card advantage to constantly have the answers I need. The other thing that white and blue do have in common to jump back and forth here is that white and blue often have answers with answers. So white tends to have things like pacifism

or things like banisher priest that exile something and that if you can get rid of the thing that exiles it, you get it back. So White is like, I remove your threat, but you can deal with my threat. Well, Blue has some of that. Because Blue, for example, has things that lock you down. Blue has things that steal. A lot of times,

Blue's answers come and form enchantments that you can deal with. And if you deal with them, then you get back the threat that Blue has eliminated eliminated or temporarily eliminated. Creature-wise, it's interesting. For a while, early on, we teased the idea that Blue might have vigilance. If you go back to, like, Legends and stuff,

like Zephyr, Falcon, for example, had vigilance. And the reason we ended up putting in green and not in blue was because blue's creatures, blue and white's creatures were so similar that we were afraid we'd get a lot of the similar vigilant-type creatures, which would be a lot of white's vigilance is low-toughness, sorry, low-power, high-toughness vigilant creatures and some flying vigilant creatures, which is what blue would have if we gave it to it.

Like if it's green, you got some big beefy vigilant creatures, which is a different thing. Um, what else? Um, now the, the, one of the places that's definitely different is, um, the, the style of attack. So, I mean, blue and white both have flyers that when blue and white get together are very common. So one of the things we do when we build decks or build limited environments these days is we try to make sure that every color pair

has something it's doing. And the way it works is every color pair has kind of their default strategy, and then it has, some of the time, it'll have a strategy that's based on that environment. So, for example, white and blue's fallback is a very controlling deck. White and blue, when they get together, white is reactive. I'm sorry, blue is reactive, white is proactive.

Get them together, and they can sit there and stall. Because white can set up resources that can... White is very, very good at stalling. Blue has lots of reactionary things. And you put them together, you know, for example, white has board clears. White has, you know, Wrath of God type effects. Blue has a lot of counterspells. Well, one of the answer is, stall, stall, stall, stall. Your opponent gets advantage on you in the board, wipes the board, now sits there with counterspells. As they try to rebuild, you now have the advantage to stop them,

you know, and that a white-blue deck tends to be very controlling. Usually the route to victory for white-blue tends to be in the air. A common draft archetype is sort of you stall on the ground and then you in the air, you manage to outnumber them in the air because white and blue have the most

flyers by far unlimited. Because white and blue, black usually has a flyer or two in common, but red and green don't, and white and blue have multiples in common. At least two, sometimes three, sometimes four. Also, at uncommon, white and blue tend to have the fattest flyers.

Blue a little bigger than white, but white also can get them. So, the areas where they are a little different. Um, mechanically speaking, like I said, white tends to have answers. You know, white can destroy anything. Where blue has to work around a little more, white is a little more direct, and blue is a little more indirect. I think that comes to the idea that the way white wants to deal with

problems is see them as all being the same thing that white is like very structured and like there are problems we have to deal with them, when they come up I will deal and that white doesn't tend to white's answers are very direct

white is a very direct color in some ways in that it's like, okay, I have answers. You get something, I'll get my answers, I'll remove your thing. Where blue is like, okay, now blue is counter spells and that sort of directly answers some stuff. But blue is more like, okay, I got a deal. I'm not quite as direct. White can get rid

of any permanent types. Blue can get rid of no permanent types. So blue is like, okay, I need to be a little smarter in how I deal with things. And the way I like to think about it is, Blue's like, okay, I've given up destruction because I believe I have other tools available to me that will allow me to play a smarter game. Okay, I can't destroy creatures, but you know what? I can steal creatures.

I can clone creatures. I can copy them. I can clone creatures. I can copy them. I can lock them down. You know, blue's like, I can do things to deal, and it's a different way, but, you know, my way allows some versatility that maybe just destroying them wouldn't allow. So that's another fundamental difference

between the two of them. It is a philosophical thing, which is blue, blue looks, so white looks at anything it considers evil, and it wants to excise it. It's like, this is bad. I need to get rid of it. Blue looks at things and says, everything is a valuable tool. If something comes along that's bad, blue goes, okay, right now it's bad, but is there a way to use it to my benefit? Is there a way that this bad thing might be a good thing?

And so blue's attitude is blue doesn't want to get rid of things. The reason blue is not an destructive color is blue's like, I'd much rather steal it or copy it or lock it down so that later I could copy it. Blue is like, why would I destroy things? That makes no sense. I want to make use of things. You know, if you have a very powerful creature, maybe, hey,

me taking your powerful creature puts me in a better state than me just destroying it. But White's philosophy is like, you know, there is badness in the world, there's evilness, there's things that are wrong.

You excise them. You get rid of them. So, in a funny way, this is where one of the things we'll talk about when I get to the enemies is how the enemy colors, as much as they oppose their enemy color, that there's some things that they're alike.

There's some ways where enemies are kind of alike. And it's funny that black and white both have this attitude of just kill whatever, whatever is wrong with it, kill it. Just get rid of alike. And it's funny that black and white both have this attitude of just kill whatever is wrong with it, kill it. Just get rid of it. White might not kill it, white might lock it in jail, but white and black interestingly share this idea of just get rid of the threat. Where blue is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe we could use the threat. Likewise, blue and green

really have this interesting attitude of wanting like blue and green for example are the two colors that can clone things blue and green are the colors that mess with the hexproof and stuff that mess with you

trying to affect them interestingly blue and green are enemies, both have the attitude of, hmm, can we adapt? That those are both colors that believe in adaptation. Now, green believes in a natural adaptation and blue believes in, you know, more of an artificial, I guess, adaptation.

But white does not believe in adaptation, you know. White is, you are the way you are. And that white is, I see no reason to change, you know. And the other thing that are, and that white is I see no reason to change. And the other thing that's interesting is white is the most stubborn of the colors. So let's for a second talk about the biggest weakness. So the biggest weakness of blue is inaction, is that blue, in this desire to try to figure out what to do, does nothing.

White's biggest problem is inflexibility, that white can't see exceptions, that white can't understand that maybe there's grays, that white wants to see everything, interestingly, in white and black. So when you get together white and blue, now this is interesting to look at the fatal flaw, if you will.

Well, blue is indecisive, that is fatal flaw, and white is inflexible. So what happens when you get indecisive and inflexible is you can create, I mean, white and blue at their worst, like, makes a whole bunch of rules that sort of muck everything up, and they're not quite sure where they're going. That they're sort of like, well, I'm just going to make sure nobody else can do anything. I mean, it's funny. If you look at the white-blue deck, there's some of that strategy to it, which is like, I'm going to make nothing happen,

and then at some point, I'll make something happen, and then I'll win. But there's definitely times in a white-blue game where, like, nothing's happening. Come on, just beat me. What are you doing? You know, that white-blue almost sometimes, like, a bad white-blue deck is a deck

in which I stop you from doing anything, but I just don't create the tools to defeat you. Where it's like, eventually I'll defeat you. Like, come on, just beat me now. You know, you have this game locked up. Just do something, you know. But White-Blue is like, I got to be defensive. I don't want to put extra cards in my deck that aren't going to help me be defensive. And so sometimes White-Blue's weakness is it just isn't doing anything. That's like, yeah, it's stopping things, but it's not progressing. And that is why blue, in my mind, its biggest problem

sometimes is it stops things and it doesn't progress things sometimes. Because you get blue's sort of inability to that it's freezing up sometimes with white's just sort of inflexibility to ever change its plans.

Because when you get white and blue together, blue's like, okay, I know there's a best answer, and white's like, I'm not going to deviate from finding the best answer, and so they sit there and sit there for a long time. I think white-blue at its strongest, the overlap where it's most powerful is that

it really has a potent tool that it can use very effectively. That if you can control what is allowable, if you can control the rules, that's a very potent thing. If you look at the Azorius in Ravnica, they're in charge

of the government. They're like, you know what, let's take a really potent force and use them at some level almost as a weapon. They're in charge of the government. They're like, you know what? Let's take a really potent force and use them at some level almost as a weapon. And that's the Azores. They're like, we have fine-tuned the law to such a sharp point that it is our sword. It is the weapon that they use.

And that white-blue can be very, very effective. At their strongest, they can wield rules stronger than any weapon. So anyway, I am now pulling into the parking lot. So that was my first podcast. Whenever I do the first of something, it's always interesting because I'm like, you don't quite know where you're going to go, but that turned out pretty good. So I guess I'll do nine more of these.

So anyway, like I said, that each of these I'll take a look and look at sort of what they where the colors align and where they sort of fight with each other and what it means and the strengths and weaknesses as a color pair. But that, my friends,

was all I could say or all I wanted to say or all I was going to say during my drive about white and blue. But I've just parked my car, which means this is the end of my drive to work. So thanks for joining me today, guys.