Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - Drive to Work #197 - Playtesting

Episode Date: January 30, 2015

Mark talks about the process of playtesting in design and walks through the various stages.

I'm pulling out of the parking space. We all know what that means. It's time for another drive to work. And it meant that I had to drop my kids off at school. But, so today, I get a lot of questions about playtesting. So I thought today, I was going to spend my podcast talking all about playtesting. Now be aware, I'm mostly going to talk about design playtests, because that's what I do. I'll talk a little bit about development playtests because I've been in a few of those. Okay, so let's ask the first question, which is how do we playtest? And the answer is that we make stickers.

So we have a thing we call Multiverse, which is our database. And Multiverse has the ability to produce stickers. We print them on stickers much like you'd put on an envelope, although we cut them to make them fit on a magic card. And then we put them on the appropriately, like if it's a green card, it goes on a green magic card. And so we have old magic cards that we sticker on.

And so our playtesting is these stickered cards. So what happens is, let's say I want to do a playtest. There's a guy named Dan. Dan is the man. Dan is the person who arranges things like doing stickers. So you'll go to Dan and say, I have a playtest in two days or three days. You gotta give him enough notice. And tell him whether you're doing Bouchard Draft or Sealed. If your set has certain parameters, sometimes we're trying to do something

where things are just a little bit different. You know, Time Spiral had a bonus sheet. Innistrad had double-faced cards. There's all these things in playtesting that are different from normal that you have to sort of make sure Dan understands. And then what happens is, the day of your playtest, Dan produces playtest cards for you.

Now, back in the day, you used to have to make your own playtest cards. In fact, I have stickered a lot of Magic cards. It used to be once upon a time, you made your own stickers and you stickered them. And so over the years, I've stickered a lot of cards. I now live in the glory times where I don't have to sticker cards, but I remember. I remember those days. So what happens is the first thing you do is R&D or design team starts by building the common., the first thing you do is R&D, or a design team, starts by building the commons. So the first playtest is an all-common playtest. What you will find, by the way, when you play with all commons is you realize what the other cards are doing for magic. Commons do a good

job of explaining sort of the base of what's going on, and the reason you start with commons is to make sure that the theme of your set is coming through. It's my famous quote, you know, if your theme is not a common, it's not your theme. You want to make sure, the reason you start a common is like, can you get the essence of what you're trying to do in simple form in commons?

And so your first playtest is with commons. Now the problem with an all-common playtest is you have no, there's no major sweeping cards or cards to turn the game around. I mean, there's some kill spells and stuff, but there's not... It is hard when you are losing in an all-common game to come back.

There just aren't the cards that allow you to have a big turnover because those tend to happen at higher rarities and not at common. But the very important thing about commons is you're trying to get an essence of how things feel. So another important thing to remember in common playtests is

the goal is not to build the best deck. I know people get a little taken aback when I say that. And in fact, I've talked about this before, we have what we call a flat power level when we playtest in design. And what that means is every card is priced so it could be played. And the reason for that is the goal of playtests, especially early playtests, is just to get experience with the cards. It's just to say, okay, I played with this. How did it feel? And that a lot of early design is about figuring out what you like and don't like.

What works? What's synergistic? You know, where is the magic in your set, if you will? And so a lot of the early playtests is about trying different cards. So one of the things I say for number one is don't keep playing the same deck. You know, the goal isn't to find the best thing. The goal is to experience a lot of different things. So if last time you played red-green, this time don't play red or green. And also, I have what we call the three-of rule, which is,

or the two-of rule, I'm not sure what the name of it, you can have two copies of any one card. If you get a third copy of a card, you can trade it in for another card of the same rarity, or actually usually you trade it in for the same rarity, same color. And the only exception is there's some mechanics in which you're trying to get a whole bunch,

and then we let you play with more than two of those. But generally, the idea is don't play with more than two of a card, because I just want you experiencing more different cards. I want you... I mean, the reason I let you play with two is sometimes there's interactions with the card in itself, so I want those to come up. But especially in early playtests, I sort of push people toward playing different, playing more different cards, playing more experiences that are different from what they've done before.

And like I said, the role of early playtest is for the design team to understand and experience all the different facets within the set. Now, another big thing that goes on early in design is you put in the set more than you intend to stay in the set. And the reason is within the set. Now another big thing that goes on early in design is you put in the set more than you intend to stay in the set. And the reason is not everything works. Things will fall out. So what you tend to do in early playtest is you overstuff with just different things.

Because what the goal is you want to experience and try different things. You're not, early early design is not about synergies, it's not about interconnectivity just yet. It is about, it's not about synergies. It's not about interconnectivity just yet. It is about, it's not about creating an environment. Early, early is getting the elements that you think are interesting,

playing with them, and learning what those elements are. Okay, so that's kind of an early play test. And remember, another important thing has to do with

what we call iteration, which is a big part of design is you try stuff, you play with it, you take notes on it, you make changes, and then you play again. And that cycle goes on and on during the course of design. Normally what happens is early design, the playtest comes more infrequently.

In early design, I try to playtest every three or four weeks. Mid-playtest, I try to playtest every other week and late-design playtest I try to play I try to play every week basically as the iterative process goes along you want to shorten the time of iteration because you are making smaller and smaller changes

early on you might play and make radically different changes you might add whole mechanics and take out whole mechanics and radically change things. And so the file could change significantly. That's why you have a little longer period of time. Late in design, you're fine-tuning things. Now, I mean, sometimes during divine,

development will come in and you're making some more substantial changes. But normally during the course of a design, early design is the biggest sweeping changes where as you go along, you're making smaller and smaller, incremental but important changes. Another big thing about playtesting in general

is you want to figure out what your MVPs are. So what I mean by that is people always ask about, you know, does design have a handle on what the good cards are going to be? And the answer is no, design have a handle on what the good cards are going to be and the answer is no because design doesn't decide what the good cards are going to be we don't even we don't even set i mean we price things but we don't determine what the ultimate mana cost is going to be development does that because development's trying to figure out what

they think is good and bad for the environment what they want to push and not push um our job on design is to figure out where the fun is and make sure we have the cards. So I talk about bearing walls a lot, for like what mechanics and what elements of your set are the bearing walls of the set, meaning don't get rid of those. They hold everything up.

Another important factor of that is you want to make sure that your set has cards that kind of just shine. A good example, I'll use Theros. Theros, when we made Chain to the Rocks and Rescue from the Underworld, those were two cards that really defined kind of what we were going for. They had a nice distinctive feel. They felt very Greek. And each one of them was a card design that made sense in the flavor of what we were doing, but we wouldn't normally make.

And that's very, very important. And in playtesting, you want to, I call them MVPs, what are the cards that are really, give special identity to the set that they're in? That you wouldn't see these cards anywhere but this set. I mean, it's cool to have a kill spell or a giant growth of something, but we do those all the time. What is really unique to this set that goes, oh, we just wouldn't make that card normally, but it makes perfect sense here. Here we'd make the card. And Chain

of the Rocks and Rest of the Underworld were clearly that. Both of those are very quirky cards, but they made sense here. Hundred Handed Ones is another good one, where it made sense here in this set. Okay, so early playtest, you start with commons, and then you start adding in uncommons. So I talk a lot about as-fan. So one of the things that you have to understand in playtesting is that the ratio between commons to uncommons is two to one, which means for every, if you counted, if you picked a common card and an uncommon card and then counted every time you saw them, you would see the common card at two times the rate of the uncommon card.

Okay, people are like, wait, what's going on? Remember, in a booster pack, there are ten commons. There's ten commons, three uncommons, one rare, mythic rare, and one land. So you have a, there's ten commons, 3 uncommons, 1 mythic rare, and 1 land. So there's 10 commons and 3 uncommons. But, hey, you say, wait a minute, 10 to 3, that's way higher than 2 to 1. That's closer to 3 to 1. And the answer is there's more commons and uncommons. That's why the ratio works out the way it is.

When you're figuring out the ASPAN and all the math, it has to do with what percentage of things exist in different rarities, so how often do we see them. So, if every booster pack has three uncommons, well, you know, that's out of either 60 or, now, more or not, more or not common is 80 these days, but, so three out of 80, and 10 out of 101 usually in a large set. Anyway, so, early on you playtest, you figure out sort of what... Oh, let me answer this question. This is a question I get all the time. So how does a playtest actually work? What do we actually do?

So here's what we actually do. Early in design, we tend to do sealed. And the reason for that is until you have your archetypes figured out, drafting doesn't really mean much. So early playtests are sealed. What will happen is everybody will get a certain number of cards. It tends to match the equivalent of getting six

booster packs, which is what you play sealed with in the real world. Although we just take the lands out, so you're getting, I guess, 84 cards. And then you're getting... Early in design, you will get... We sometimes give you a little less than 84 because you don't have the uncommons and the rares

but anyway you get your sealed deck you build it and then you play and the way it works is we play matches 2 out of 3 and then we switch up sometimes we'll quit before we're completely done if somebody else is free a very common thing that will happen in design

playtests and sometimes development playtests is people will sometimes swap decks. They'll go, let me try your deck, see how that plays. Our playtests are usually two hours long. Oh, here's another quirky thing. You want a little quirky R&D thing? I will teach you about the R&D roll. Okay, so the beginning of the game, you have to figure out who goes first. Okay, so the beginning of the game, you have to figure out who goes first. The way most people do that is they roll a 20-sided die. So each player rolls a 20-sided die. So R&D figured out that that was inefficient.

That, why roll two dice? So the R&D rule is, one person rolls a die. If they roll an odd number, they win, and they get to choose play or draw. If they get an even number, the opponent wins, they get play or draw. And so the idea is, oh, it has the same value of rolling two dice, but you get the same effectiveness only rolling one. The problem we run into is R&D understands this. But whenever R&D interfaces with anybody else and tries to somehow teach them the R&D role, it always goes horribly awry.

Like, you know, I remember, so we used to play, we had pre-releases where we played down the first floor, and we're intermingling with other people from the company. So in the early days, I used to sort of say, hey, guys, you know, you want to do the R&D role? And I would try to teach them the R&D role. And they'd go, okay, well, I roll a die, and it's odd, so I get to go. And they're like, yeah, but I haven't rolled yet. I'm like, no, go, okay, well, I rolled a die, and it's odd, so I get to go, and they're like, yeah, but I haven't rolled yet. I'm like, no, no, no, see, I rolled odd, and since it's odd, it's me, if I rolled even, you would have gone, and it just confuses them to no end. So, now, Billy Morano added to the, no one else picked up this, it was Billy, Billy added

his own special thing, because he was trying to minimize people rolling dice off the table. That happened a lot. So Billy's special rule was, if you were rolling, if you rolled an odd, or rolled a 20, you won. But if you rolled off the table, you lost. And the idea there was,

and heavily encouraged the person rolling the die to be extra careful with rolling it. I think R&D didn't like that it still gave this advantage to the first player. I mean, they had to be more careful rolling the die to be extra careful with rolling it. I think R&D didn't like that it still gave this advantage to the first player. I mean, they had to be more careful rolling the die, but they still got the advantage, so they never picked up steam. Okay, anyway, back to the playtest. So, you get

sealed early on, and you build your decks and you play. Usually, development is very precise in recording what you did. In fact, when you play in a development playtest, they'll often give you a sheet of paper, and you have to write down how many cards you played of each color,

how many artifacts you played, how many non-basic lands you played, how many rares you played, rares or mythics you played. Sometimes if the set has a specific thing, like during Innistrad, we marked how many double-faced cards you played. So development did a lot more. In design, we mostly just look and see what colors people are playing

just to get a sense of, not that it wasn't a set balance, so the set's not balanced yet, but more like, oh, did we get enough experience of people seeing things? Oh, if nobody played blue, then we're not going to get a real good sense

of how blue was. Okay, once the playtest is done, then we have a wiki, the R&D wiki. Somebody will post a link to the wiki and say, thanks you for playing the playtest, please give some feedback. And then people write their feedback on how the playtest went. And it might be, oh, I played red-blue, I was drawn in by these two cards. I really liked this thing. I didn't like this other thing. Oh, and this one card I played, we need to change it for whatever reason

you need to change it. Oh, another thing, by the way, that happens in playtests, people ask me about this too, which is if you are playing with something and it becomes instantly apparent that it is wrong, it is broken,

it's too powerful, it won't work correctly in the rules, you will change it then and there. That is how playtests works for design, which is oh, this card's a problem? Okay, change it. Oh, that's too good? Raise its cost. You know, you on the spot, mid-game, you will change cards.

Now, the funny thing is, when you are drafting, we normally don't change the cards, but when you're playing sealed, we do. I mean, sometimes if the card's just egregious, we will change it mid-game. But sometimes when you're drafting, because people drafted knowing things, we let the cards stay as they are for the playtest. Oh, so also let me explain.

The way the playtesting works is every playtest sticker has a date on it that it was printed. And what happens is if you change the file enough, then you do a new printing. If you just change a few things, what will happen is one of the people will go through and just manually... Let's say you only change the cost of four cards. Well, somebody will go find those four cards, every copy of those four cards, and manually change the mana cost.

So once again, if you've ever seen me write up stuff in online like Hound for example in the files white is W blue is U black is B, red is R, green is G

land is L, artifacts are A multicolor is Z and there's a few others for random things. So we tend to, when you play, that's the terminology, you're seeing like a design file out of multiverse. Now, recently, they've been improving the technology of the stickers. And now when you get stickers, it actually puts mana symbols in. I think they print them on a color copier. So like the mana symbols are colored

and if you have land that produces one color or two color, it shows you what color the lands are producing and produces three or more color, it gives you gold. Yeah, by the way, the design sticker technology is constantly improving. When I first got here not long ago, like back when I was playtesting Mirage, they were

they weren't stickers on cards, they were pieces of cardboard that were printed and then cut out, and so you were playing with I mean they were roughly magic card size, but they weren't magic cards, and then we quickly, early on, I mean, the sticker technology came long ago,

but we're constantly refining the sticker technology. In fact, one of the things that we did, although we don't use this for everyday playtesting, is we have a system where you can print cards that look just like the finished card. And this is late in development when all the art is in and everything. And it allows us to make sticker cards that look a lot like the real thing. So if we're playtesting with people outside R&D,

that... Because one of the things you learn is I'm very used... R&D is very used to playing with stickers. It's very off-putting when you first start doing it because you're used to playing with magic cards. And magic cards have, you know, beautiful art and have the frame and the name and the flavor text and and in playtests

you know we're not using real names we're not using there's no flavor text other than a joke flavor text here or there um you know we're trying our our um our templating is rough i mean usually in design early early design we just sort of do what we, we make sure people understand what it does and don't worry about templating. Once we get some faith that it is doing what it needs to do, then we get the templators,

the editors to sort of do a rough template, not a final one, but just close enough that we have a general sense of how wordy it's going to be. So the files, the rules text is closer to somewhat real, but everything else is not. And it takes a while to get used to playing with the stickers. Once you do it for a while, you get used to it. But what we've learned

is if you're trying to show somebody outside of R&D your game, whether it be Magic or anything else, you want to make good-looking stickers because people judge a lot on appearance. And even though in their head they know this art isn't real, these frames aren't real, even though they know that none of it necessarily is the final product, it just warps how people perceive things. And so when I show off, I mean, I haven't done a lot of new games in the last few years, but when I show off a new game, I always make sure that I do enough graphics that it looks like a game

because it will throw people. If you're not used to playing with bare-bones sticker things, it's just disorienting. Okay, so I talked about early playtests. We try things out. We see what we like. We do the commons.

We start layering on commons. Okay, then we get to the middle part of the playtest. Rares start getting in somewhere between the end of the early part and the beginning of the middle part. You don't need all the rares. Like, in a limited deck, you get, I think, six rares. You have six packs. So you only need six rares per people playing. So you don't need all the rares to have experience playing with rares.

So rares tend to enter the file as you come up with them. Now, one of the things, for those that have read my nuts and bolts columns, is what I call a design skeleton, which is you have to figure out how many slots you have for everything. Common and uncommon, we're much tighter and try to keep close to what we actually have. Rare, we stay loose for a little while, because in rare, you're just trying out a lot of different Rare cards,

and it, the, Rares don't really affect the Azphan too much, so you're not worried about the Azphan, or the common, uncommon do, so you're trying, like, do I have enough, whatever the tribal you care about in a particular set, like I'm, I care about goblins, do I have enough goblins in my,

in the set? Are goblins showing up enough? When I have cards that care about goblins, so I have enough goblins in the set. Are goblins showing up enough? When I have cards that care about goblins, are those cards sitting dead in my hand, or do I have enough goblins to make those cards work? That's the kind of thing that design has to fully figure out that is environmental, if you will. We don't figure out mana cost, but we do figure out trying to get numbers in the right ballpark.

Now, development will come along, fine-tune what we're doing. Okay, so early, I'm sorry, middle playtest, middle design playtest, we start doing draft. Usually we rotate between sealed and draft. We get to the middle. The other thing, by the way, is not all our playtests are limited playtests. We also do constructed playtests.

So what constructed playtests are in design is we just pick themes. Usually each player gets a theme and some color combination. Normally what we'll do is we'll pick the mechanics that we're playing with early on, and we'll say, okay, this is Mechanic X. That mechanic is in black, red, and green. Okay, Bob, why don't you take two of the three colors, you can pick whichever ones you want,

and make a deck focused on Mechanic X. Make a Mechanic X deck. And the reason we do a constructed playtest is there are things that you just can't see until you try to make the deck. That when you're playing Limited, the Mechanic X deck in Limited has less cards that are dedicated to the theme.

But once you get to constructed, it's like, okay, I can do what I want. Well, let me look. So early constructed playtests, which doesn't happen... So constructed playtests don't happen to the middle part of design. Early constructed playtests

only use the set you are playing in unless it's a small set, and then you get to also use the big set. Now, once you move along, later on you start being able to use things in standard to get a sense of where this deck's going to play when it comes out. But early on, you're just trying to see if the set itself is providing things that you need.

It informs you a little bit about limited, but it's a lot more about construction, especially casual construction, which is what we refer to as people who build decks, but they're not following formats. They play the cards they own. So it's really important for that crowd that there's enough stuff within the booster pack to play with itself that you can combine with the other cards, but all the tools for playing with the new mechanic are there. Because any one set is going to have the most tools to play with its own mechanic. Now, we often try to plan ahead, which is, if we know we're going to do a theme, we try to make sure that before it, there are sets that have cards that go into that theme, so

when the card comes into standard, you get to not just play with new cards, but you get to mix it in with some old cards. And we're always very conscious of that. Okay, so medium playtest, you alternate, your limited playtest alternate between sealed and draft, and then you're alternating between limited and constructed so it's like

sealed constructed draft constructed sealed constructed draft and such

and like I said the medium playtest I try to make sure we playtest at least every two weeks it can be faster than that depending on how the set is going the real question by the way

of when to playtest is did I make enough changes that I think there's more to be learned? And as you move later on, those changes can be more and more subtle, but did you make changes that is worth playing again to see? Now, early playtests, we often will playtest twice, and the reason is there's so much material you're trying to get that we often need to playtest multiple times just to sort of pick it all up, to have a chance to play with the different mechanics. Like I said, early on you're trying to pick things out and figure out what you want to use. So middle playtests, we tend to play once. And the role of the middle playtest is to start figuring out how things go together.

The first set is finding what the pieces are. The second part, the second middle part, is figuring out how things go together. Because you want to finding what the pieces are. The second part, the second middle part is figuring out how things go together because you want to start structuring them in such a way. The other thing that's very common early on in playtests

is that we will take mechanics and spread them to all the colors often and then as we get to the middle part, we start breaking it down. Like, okay, this mechanic's mostly going to be

a red, black, green thing and it's not going to show up in white and blue. If it's in white and blue, it's at high rarity, so it's not a limited thing. It's more of a casual, constructive thing. So the middle set is starting to figure out the balance of picking, fine-tuning which mechanics you want, how they play with each other. And then once you, the way I like to describe it is,

let's say you're making a wall. Well, first you pick your bricks. Once you pick your bricks, then you need your mortar to hold the bricks together. Once you figure out your mechanics, then you've got to figure out, what are the cards and things that I need to make those things work together? So let's say mechanic X and mechanic Y both show up in red. Well, I'm like, okay, are there particular cards that help link X and Y that if you have this in your deck, it'll make you want to play X and Y together?

And we have to start thinking about that. So then you move to the late play test. Late play test, like I said, you play test every single week. It's constantly changing. What I mean is you're constantly playing, you're fine-tuning every week. I guess the change is lesser than early on.

And what happens is early on, you care about wide-sweat notes much more than you care about individual notes. I mean, you make notes about individual cards just so you can change them. But the bigger issues of early playtests is widespread. Is this working? What mechanics do we want? As you move along, you start fine-tuning a lot more on individual cards. You know, late playtests is, how can we make this particular card effective better?

Oh, if this card was tweaked in this way, or we changed power toughness, or, you know, we did something, then this card might play better if it had a small tweak to it. And so, you tend to go from macro to micro as you playtest, meaning you start caring about the bigger things, and the more you play, you start solidifying the bigger things, and then you start caring about the smaller things. you play, you start solidifying the bigger things and then you start caring about the smaller things. You know, like,

actually, maybe there's a better example than my rock example, my brick example is, let's say I know a science thing where you take a glass and the teacher fills the glass up with a whole bunch of big rocks and says,

is this full? And you go, yeah, yeah, it looks full. And then he takes small rocks and pours them in. And the small rocks go in between the big rocks. He goes, is this full? And you go, yeah, yeah, that seems pretty full. And then, you know, he pours some sand in and fills it up a bit more.

Is this full? You go, yeah. Then he pours water in. And the point is, there's always smaller things, smaller spaces you can fit things into and design is a lot like that that you move along the playtesting

that you're starting with the bigger things and you start fine tuning and caring about smaller and smaller things to the point at which in late playtests you are caring about nuances

and how individual cards are working and how combinations of cards are working now remember that design is handing us off to development. I mean, we're done with design, but that the process is not completely done.

And that there's a lot of things that development is going to care about that design doesn't spend a lot of time on. A big one is mana cost. Another one is design does not figure out the metagame for standard standard so we are not pushing particular things what we're trying to do is make sure that all the strategies have viable components that the play the developers can tweak the knobs to figure out whether i make them weaker or stronger based on how it's going to play um because what we try to do is make sure like we're doing mechanic x mechanic y mechanic z does mechanic x have the things it needs to be fun does Does mechanic Y have the things it needs to be fun? Are the things to make mechanic X, mechanic Y

maybe play together in the same deck? And you're balancing all those individual elements. The other thing that happens during the last part of playtesting is the last two months of a large set, the last month of a small set, is what we call divine, which is the crossover between design and development.

It's a clever name. D-E-V-I-G-N. And so in Divine, development starts playing with the set. In fact, usually what happens is you have one playtest every week that you both play in. So usually development sometimes plays a little more than design because they're trying to learn all the stuff about the set. Design plays at least once a week during the final, sometimes more depending on how the set's going. And what happens is,

while design is making its notes during Divine, development is making its notes. So a lot of Divine is addressing the larger comments of development. Because development will start by giving pretty big comments. You know, they might say, here's a... Now, be aware, during the entire process, development is looped in.

At the end of exploratory design, we show our things to development to get feedback. Midway through design, we show development stuff to get feedback. Obviously, in Vine, they get lots of feedback. So we are constantly trying to make sure, and there is a developer on the design team to sort of address development issues and go,

here are things I anticipate we might have so the design team can try to figure things out. But it's not until Divine that development starts giving it sort of major notes. And it's when it starts playing with the set, like it's like, okay, it's at a place where you can really play with the set. Now notice when I said we got into

the middle part that not all the rares are necessarily done. By the time you get to the final third, your rares I mean, not that your rares won't change, but you need to have all the rares and mythic rare slots filled. You need to have a full set. In fact, when you hand the set over, you tend to hand over a

little over that, especially in rares and mythics, so that there are some extra cards if the team needs them. Also, in a file, we do what we call 99ing, which is when we do something and we don't need it, we take it out. If we really, really believe that if we took it out but we know that it could

go back in in a second, we 66 it. A 99 means we took it out because it wasn't sitting anymore. Usually we leave some of the 99s and the 66s for development. The 99s are ones where we're like, well this was interesting but we shifted but if you shift back, maybe you'll be interested in this. And the 66s are, look, we lost it for space,

but it's a good card if you need it. Here's a card. And then we do the late playtest, and like I said, a lot of the playtests, early on, it's like, this mechanic's doing blah, blah, blah, or I really like this card, we should do more like it. End playtest is more like, this card is not playing well with that card, or if we make this tweak to this card, it'll do more like it. And playtest is more like, this card is not playing well with that card, or

if we make this tweak to this card, it'll play better with that card. So anyway, hopefully, like I said, my goal today was to give you guys a little more sense of when we playtest, how we do, and what happens. I get asked about playtest all the time. People seem very interested in playtest.

But anyway, I've just parked my car, so we all know what that means. Yes, it's time to end my drive to work. And instead of talking about magic, it's time for me to be making magic. I'll talk to you guys next time.