Magic: The Gathering Drive to Work Podcast - Drive to Work #215 - Traveling

Episode Date: April 3, 2015

Matt Cavotta joins Mark talking about their travels across the world.

I'm pulling out of Matt's driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for another drive to work. And Matt's with us! Alright. Okay, so Matt, I have a topic today. Matt doesn't know the topic. Oh, by the way, we're trying new technology today. Someone on my blog suggested trying to get a splitter for my phone. Testing, testing. Matt and I both have headsets today, so hopefully the audio will be better. We'll see.

Matt and I both have headsets today, so hopefully the audio will be better. We'll see. Okay, so my topic today is one of the perks of working for Magic is we do a lot of traveling. Woo! And I know that Matt, even before Matt was working at Wizards as an artist, Matt did a lot of traveling. So we're going to talk about all our traveling stories today. Sweet. And share notes of where all we went. So that's a good first.

Okay. I don't know if you remember this. Yeah. But you and I met for the first time during one of our travels. Australia, right? Yes.

Yes. We met in, there was a world championships in Australia. The one that Carlos Hamal from Brazil won. And that's where I met you and Kylie.

Kylie's his wife. Who would have thought that two dudes would meet, like, I don't know, 9,000 miles from the place where they both grew up, which happened to be within two miles of each other. Yeah, so Matt and I went to the same high school. Not at the same time. I'm a little older than that. Actually, we were in the same building for one year. Oh, yeah, you were in the eighth grade. When I was a senior, the eighth grade got moved

into the high school. We called them the knee highs. Matt was a knee high. They kept them very separated, though. Even though even at that time, it's possible that I was taller. You probably were taller. I'm sure you were taller. I was the smallest one in my grade. But how ridiculous is that? I imagine at some moment, I was two you were drunk. I was the smallest one in my grade. But how ridiculous is that? We were, I imagine at some moment Yeah. I was two feet from you. Yeah.

And yet it was 9,000 miles away that we meet. That is bizarre. Okay, so here's the thing I want to start with. Let's share where we've gone.

Okay, so we'll go through that content. Well, your list is going to be ridiculous compared to mine. Oh, possibly. You've been to a decent number of places. You've been to a decent number of places. I've been to a decent number of places.

Oh, okay. So let's start. So we're both in Australia. Yes. That was awesome, by the way. That was. I loved it. In fact, I went to Australia twice because I went to the worlds in Australia and then

there was a magic invitation on Australia. Sydney is a beautiful city. It was very beautiful. I loved Sydney. It's one of my favorite places I visited was Sydney. Agreed. Okay. So where have you been in Asia?

Nowhere. Nowhere? You've you been in Asia? Nowhere. Nowhere? You've never been? Never been to Asia. Not in Japan? You've never been to Japan? No. You're not the first person that has been surprised at that. It's a very big magic mark in Japan. How excited the fan base there is. They love art. I mean, not that everyone

doesn't love art, but they are particularly fans of art in Japan. And I've met a good host of Asian fans at other events, like Australia. It's relatively close for them. And their fandom expresses itself in a different way. They're very respectful, and they bring gifts. Oh, yeah.

It's really wonderful. Yeah, it's a whole different vibe that I'm sorry that I had never glommed on to that. Oh, it's funny because I have been to Japan, it's either seven or eight times. Because I used to go to the Pro Tour every year, and there was a period where every year there's a Pro Tour in Japan. Right. And so I've been to Japan a whole lot. I've been to Tokyo and Yokohama and Kobe and Osaka. I've been all over Japan. Um, and then in Austin, Asia, I went to Kuala Lumpur for an invitational. That's really cool. I went to Korea for Korean

nationals one year. Um, I feel like I'm missing something else. Uh, I've never been to China. That's one of the ones I always like, I always hope one day maybe I can go to China that'd be cool but I've never been to China I remember being at Origins in Columbus Ohio a million years ago and one of my Swiss round

pairings in the national championship qualifier was a dude from Korea who could hardly speak English but was in Columbus actually for a bowling tournament. Yeah, Korea was, the thing I remember about Korea is we went for Korean nationals. When I first got the job, the first couple years I was at Wizards, my single days, they just let me go wherever I wanted. I went all over the place. And one summer, I traveled every week of the summer but three weeks. I was only off this for three weeks. Ouch.

And so I got to go to Korean nationals, and it was really eye-opening. One of the things that's neat is, in Asia, one of the most popular ways to hold tournaments is in shopping malls. Wow, that's fun. And so the Invitational was held in Kuala Lumpur, was in a shopping mall. Like, in the public space? Yeah, yeah, just in the shopping mall. Wow.

Like, just public areas. That's one of the places they hold events. And, in fact, the Invitational in Hong Kong, I don't know, I've been to Hong Kong. The Invitational in Hong Kong and the Invitational in Kuala Lumpur were both held in shopping malls. That's crazy. Okay, so how about let's go to Europe. Where have you been to in Europe? The Invitational in Hong Kong and Invitational in Kuala Lumpur were both held in shopping malls. That's crazy. Okay, so how about let's go to Europe.

Where have you been to in Europe? I've been to France. I've been to Nice for a Pro Tour. Right, Pro Tour Nice, I assume. Yes. I've been to Amsterdam. I feel like I've been there more than once. No, I've been to Nice more than once.

Amsterdam also for a pro tour. And is that it for Europe? That might be it for Europe. I didn't realize I've traveled a lot more than you. Now I'm starting. Yes. Actually, I missed pro tour Amsterdam because my daughter Rachel was born. So I didn't actually go to... I've been to Amsterdam outside of work,

but I've never been to Amsterdam for work. I have been to Nice twice. I was just in Nice for the World Championship, and I was in Pro Tour Nice. I've been... Let's see. I've been in Rome, in Venice, in Berlin, in a couple places in Germany.

I've been in Paris. I've been in Nice. I've been in Paris. I've been in Nice. I've been in London. I've been in Brussels. I once got invited to Finland. I was the guest of honor at Ropacon, which is the largest gaming convention in Finland. Wow.

So that was kind of her work. It wasn't a magic thing. It was work-related, I suppose. Work-related. The thing that I found to be really interesting, regardless of where on the planet the event happens, the confines of the event itself are somewhat consistent in terms of the vibe and the look of the event. in terms of the vibe and the look of the event.

But I am still consistently surprised at how similar Magic fans are, regardless of where they're from. Oh, yeah, yeah. It is neat to sort of... Like, I've been to countries and tournaments in which I could probably not have spoken to a single person at the tournament, but I've sat down and played Magic with them.

Yeah. That is always fascinating, how you can play Magic with somebody that you don't, I mean, you don't share a verbal language, but you share a language of Magic. Right. And I've definitely played with people that I could not speak to, but we were able to play a Magic game just fine. The other neat thing, I think, is the Pro Tours tried really hard to pick spots and do things.

Like, one of our German Pro pro tours, the one that Matt plays won, was held in a castle. I mean, it was a table set up in a castle, but still it was kind of cool it was in a castle. While you're playing cards, number one, you're focused on what you're doing anyway um but the scene is rather magic the same yeah but it's after hours where you get to enjoy what is particular about the place that you go and and from in my experience as a an artist i imagine your experience is the same because fans everywhere know who you are um they really want to roll out the red carpet for what their home country or home city has to offer. And that was one of my favorite things.

So I have a great story about that. So I'm in Finland. I'm the guest honor at the convention. And so I said, OK, guys, I'm in Finland. Let's go out for Finnish food. Now, I'm a picky eater. So I mean, you will find nothing to eat there. Right. So anyway, I'm in Finland. I want to be brave. So I say to them, let's go for Finnish food. And my host goes, yeah, we're not going to do that. And I go, no, no, no. Go on.

I'm in Finland. We're in Finland. Let's get Finnish food. They go, we're not. You don't want pickled blubber. They're like, we're not going to take you to Finnish food. I go, I mean, we'll take you someplace and you can eat it. We're not going to eat it.

You know, they wouldn't take me. It's funny. Like the one time, I'm like, okay, let's do it. Oh, here's another funny story. So we were in the Invitational in Kuala Lumpur, and I'm with a guy named Dave Price, who was a very famous pro player back in the day. He won Pro Tour in Los Angeles. It's the dude who plays Red, right?

Yes, he likes playing Red. And he's a vegetarian. So we were, there was a McDonald's in the mall we were at, and they had something called McEgg, which we had never seen before. McEgg? McEgg. And so he's trying to figure out whether to get McEgg. And I'm like, look, Dave, here's why you should get McEgg.

Because we've never had McEgg. And one of two things is going to happen. Either you have a story about how you had a McEgg, and it was one of the most wonderful things you ever had. you have a story about you got mc egg and it was the most disgusting thing you ever had both of those are good stories get the mc egg but doesn't mc egg count as mc meat for his ah he ate eggs I mean whoever the vegetarian although it's quite presumptuous to think there's actually meat in anything

you never know with mc food It's quite presumptuous to think there's actually meat in anything. You never know with McFood. Right. The other neat thing about going to other countries is just there's a lot of quirky traditions. Like, I remember I was in Japan. It was in December, so it was near the holidays. So that Kentucky Fried Chicken, which they have in Japan, they dress up Colonel Sanders like Santa. That's just what they do in Japan.

Colonel Santas, of course. Yeah, so it's like, and it just, I asked about it, and the response was, oh yeah, that's what we do. It's always neat, like, it's neat to go to restaurants that you know in other countries, and they always have their version of things. Yeah. Like, I remember we went to, where was it? Did you go to P.F. Chang's in China? I did not go to P.F. Chang's. And they have burgers?

I went to a Subway in Japan where they had toppings I had never heard of. Like, you could get all sorts of crazy toppings and, like, sandwiches and things. I didn't even know

what they were. And, you know, my host was trying to describe to me. That, by the way, is a key. When you're in a country, have somebody who speaks

the native language with you. Oh, so we did Europe, we did Asia. Have you ever in a country, have somebody who speaks the native language with you. Oh, so we did Europe, we did Asia. Have you ever been to South America? Yes. Where did you go to South America? I've been there once. I was in Argentina in Buenos Aires. Oh, I was in, the invitation was in Rio de Janeiro. That's my one trip to...

While I was there, some awesome magic fans decided to take me and the buddy that I was with. Actually, I went down there with Magic creative writer Adam Lee. Oh, okay. We had a hoot. But they took us out for traditional Argentinian carnivorous feast. Okay.

And I'm going to admit that I was the weak American who just didn't want any part of the disgusting sausages and other tube meats and things that they were presenting us with. Oh, God. So in Brazil, I don't know what they call it, but in Brazil they took us out to this place where there's this dial, we call it the meat dial, and you either can turn it to green or to red. And if you turn it to green, just meat comes flowing out. They keep bringing different meats out.

And if you turn it to red, then they bring out like vegetables and non-meat things. Those colors seem backwards. No, no, green, gold, bring me meat. Red, stop, stop the meat. Red for meat and green for vegetables seems to make sense, too. I guess, I guess. Green was go, bring me vegetables. So I remember that we went and we had a great time.

Although it's funny because when we were in the Invitational, Dave Price and Chris Bakula are both vegetarian. And so Brazil is very meat-centric. It's a very meat-centric country. And I remember we were trying to get them some meals that weren't meat-oriented. And same with Barcelona. The two of them also went to Barcelona. Did they offer chicken to the vegetarian? No, no.

I've been to meat restaurants where they're so myopic with their beef and goat and whatnot that when someone says they're vegetarian, then they said chicken. They don't have anything green. I think the thing they did in Brazil was, instead of giving them all meat, they gave them a tray with just a little bit of meat. It was like, you know,

this is an all-meat tray, but you're a vegetarian, so you just have some meat on your tray. Brazil was awesome. Other than it being, Brazil was one of the hottest places I've ever, ever been. Laura, in fact, I proposed to my wife in Brazil. I proposed to Laura in Brazil. I stayed after. What happened? We flew down, and then Laura and I, and Richard Garfield, and his wife and daughter at the time, and Peter Atkinson, one of the people that started Wizards. We all stayed late. And Scaffoli, we all stayed late.

And then we went and saw the Cristo and did all sorts of sightseeing. And we went on this one excursion. It was me and Laura, Richard, Lily, and Scaff, and Terry's Richard's little son, went on this boat excursion that we bought. And all I know is we were in the middle of I don't know where we were.

It was the hottest I've ever been in my life. And I said, okay, I've got to get in the water. And I got in and the water was like warmer than the air. It didn't do anything to cool me off. A hot tub. That's the same place where late at night it would be boiling and you'd open the window up and hot air would blow in from outside. late at night and like boiling and you'd open the window up

and hot air would blow in from outside. Yuck. And then in Brazil, we were playing, there was a Grand Prix and we were, the Invitational

was at the Grand Prix and the Grand Prix was upstairs on the third floor of this old building and it was hot. But they put us, the Invitational,

there was one glass refrigerated room in the whole building and so we held the Invitational inside this one refrigerated room and there's building. And so we held the invitation inside this one refrigerated room. And there's glass walls. And the people were pressed up against the glass walls to watch.

I think they were pressed up to get the cool air. In retrospect, I think they were trying to cool themselves down. It was like a big ice cube. But the players were like rock stars in Brazil. It was great because they had never seen the pro players before. And so we had all the pros. And then Charlie Coutinho, who was running the Grand Prix upstairs. He's someone who works with me at Wizards, but he was the head judge. He would come down every once in a while to the refrigerator room to collapse.

And he would just be like, it looked like he jumped in a pool. He was just like covered, covered in sweat. Um. But you know, one interesting aspect of uh of traveling for um for magic events is that more than once have i been on a flight and a proportion large enough to notice of the people on the flight i assumed they must be going to this thing too. Right. Because how many, like, scruffy 18-year-olds can possibly pack onto the same flight and at some point you can hear all of the flick, flick, flick, flick, flick of hard shuffling

happening. Yep. And then you'd see people, like, shuffling seats around, you know, to go and play. It was really pretty cool. The plane becomes a magic venue of its own. Have you ever played a magic tournament on a plane? Tournament? No.

But I've played cards on a plane. Well, I mean, I've played where we had eight people, right, and we would switch seats, and we were playing an actual bracketed... Oh, nice. No, it hasn't been that robust. So, oh, and we would switch seats, and we were playing an actual bracketed... Oh, nice. No, it hasn't been that robust. Oh, okay, so the one last place where I believe I visited, I'm guessing you have not, is the last continent. I mean, no one's been to Antarctica, but have you ever been to Africa?

No, no. So I went to... There's an invitational in Cape Town, so I had a chance to go to Cape Town. It took me 30 hours of travel to get to Cape Town. Was that the only Africa event that you know of? They've had Grand Prix's there, but not that I've attended. Are they usually in South Africa? Yeah, I think usually they're in South Africa.

I went to the Invitational. And so one of the things that's neat about going to the Invitational is, right, they're rolling out the red carpet for you. The locals are trying to show you off. So one of my favorite things in Cape Town was they took us to this beach and as far as the eye could see, I mean just as far as the eye could see were penguins. Like more penguins packed per square mile than I've ever seen in my life. Somebody took pictures of me with the penguins, but it wasn't my camera, so I never got the pictures. so somewhere out there, if someone ever finds, if you have

a picture of me with, like, a mile worth of penguins, somehow get me those pictures, it was just so awesome, because penguins, you think, have to live in cold climates, but it wasn't, it was, like, 50 degrees, it wasn't that cold, and they were fine, and it was just, I, if you told me Cape Town was the home of lots and lots of penguins, I would not have known that, um, oh, and in Cape Town, I got of lots and lots of penguins, I would not have known that. Oh, and in Cape Town, I got the chance to pet a cheetah. Cool. They took us on a tour, and the tour involved going to a bunch of different wineries,

and then we had a boat tour where we were supposed to look for sharks, although we didn't see any sharks. And we went to a reserve where I got to pet a cheetah. So that picture I have, me petting the cheetah. In fact, the picture that was my face on my article for the longest time was a close-up of my face, but if you pulled back on the picture, it was me petting a cheetah. That's pretty funny. I'm trying to think. Okay, the other thing is North America.

I assume you've traveled all over the place. What is the weirdest place within North America you think you've gone to? Weirdest? Our most upbeat, I don't know, most interesting story from, give me a most interesting American story. Somewhere in North America. I don't know. I feel like the, uh, the experiences surrounding the American events were pretty standard. Although I will say that one of my favorite days of experiences in my entire life was spent directly after a Grand Prix, or it might have been a pre-release, in Utah. Yeah. And fellow magic artist Steve Prescott and I went for a hike and a camp out up in the mountains in Utah, where we hiked up three and a half miles into the mountain, up to

where Mountain Lake was, and we were the only people, with the exception of one man and his son, who stayed there overnight. And everybody else, like, had to hike back down. Yeah. And it was so cool to be there connected to the, sort of, the wilds of nature. We almost got trampled by a moose. That was exciting. Oh, that sounds cool. But it was awesome.

It was awesome, and it wouldn't have happened without magic being the catalyst. Yeah, so here's a scary story. There was an event. It was a pro tour in New York, September 7th through the 9th, 2001. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I remember this. I flew out on a plane on September 10th. And I have numerous co-workers who didn't fly out that were there on September 11th. That actually were in New York. There were people from Wizards who called me that day to ask if they could stay at my house

because Cleveland is on the 3-4 day driving route from New York back to Seattle. Yeah, it's funny because when it happened, a lot of, everyone knew I was in New York

and a lot of people didn't realize I was back from New York. That everyone had called Laura assuming I was in New York, but... Scary. What's the most, I just talked about

a podcast I did on 2008 about how we went to the world in Memphis, that we went to Graceland. Oh, yeah. Were you there? I was there. Graceland was amazing. That was...

Somehow... The other thing that's neat is the number of famous places I've been surrounded by Magic Players. Like, my memory of the Sistine Chapel is I look up, and I see the Sistine Chapel, and I look down, Magic Players, as far as the eye can see.

Meanwhile, dry rub ribs in Memphis were really good. Yeah. Really good. Yeah, it's... One of the things that's really, really neat is the amount of things I've been able to see, like, on Magic's dime has been kind of amazing. Actually, if I think about it, the tour of food has been

remarkable. One of my favorite meals of my life was in Australia. I'm not going to get into the whole meal of it, but I'll just note that it was there and it was awesome. Yeah, I had a bite of kangaroo in Australia.

That's one of the weird things. King what? Kangaroo. A kangaroo? A bite of kangaroo, which tasted a lot like chicken, for those that are curious. It was a little gamey chicken. And I think I had some crocodile. For some reason, in Australia, I had weird...

I don't normally eat weird food. I'm a pretty picky eater. But somehow when I go abroad, I will sample things a little bit. Yeah, you got to try it. So, like, I remember when we were in Spain. Oh, so here's a funny story, which is we're in Spain and Barcelona for all these Invitational stories. We were in Barcelona for Invitational, and so we decided that it's time to go have dinner. But it turns out in Spain, like, everything shuts down from, like, 4 to 9 or something.

Siesta. And so, like, you can't have dinner until really late. And so we didn't realize this. And so we were, like, it took us a while to understand that, like, we couldn't eat at 7 o'clock. So finally, like, at 9 o'clock, someplace opens up, and we have this tapas place. Tapas. I have to say that carefully. And I tried escargot. So. Oh, there was, when

we were in Nice, there was an outdoor ice cream booth or whatever. And they had, there is a tradition in the United States for many flavors of ice cream yeah and they have nothing to do with what the french must see in a proper spread of ice cream flavors because theirs were things like uh cabbage and broccoli and tomato and this and that and the other thing. One of the artists that was with us decided to give it a whirl, you know, when in Rome. Yeah. And he got tomato-flavored ice cream. Yep. I tried it, and it was the sickest thing.

It was disgusting. It was like they took a jar of ragu and just froze it. It was not sweet. It was not ice cream. It was just cold tomatoes. It was sick. It was the worst. Here's my food story. We were in Hong Kong

for the very first Invitational ever. It was in Hong Kong. We decided to go out. We asked the maitre d' where we should go for food. They tell us some restaurant nearby. I think we were looking for inexpensive, which was in Hong Kong. So we decided to go out. We asked the maitre d' where we should go for food, and they tell us some restaurant nearby. I think we were looking for inexpensive, which was our first mistake. So anyway, we'd go in, and they had pictures of pretty food all around.

And you would point and say, I want this. And then they would, with like an ice cream scoop, scoop some colored glop, put it on a tray, and go, yeah, that's this. And then, so I ordered something. I don't even remember what it was. It looked, and the picture's this. And then, so I ordered something. I don't even remember what it was. It looked, in the picture it looked good.

And it was this orange glop. And I ate it. And, I mean, it was tastier than it looked, but I got sick. I got food poisoning. So, my gosh. So, I remember. Anything that you describe as glop,

you should not eat. It was a mistake. The other thing in Hong Kong, by the way, they took us out one night. Like, Wizards took us out. And we did a, there's a thing in Hong Kong where you do, I don't know, like a 28-course meal or something. Just, they keep bringing different foods. And some of the foods is they bring the live things. Oh, yeah.

And then fry it in front of you. Yes. And I'm like, oh, what are you doing? What are you doing? I know that's the norm, but I'm not used to. I don't want it moving on my plate. Yeah. I don't want to eat something that I saw living moments ago that doesn't, not a big.

But what about the kind that you have to actually kill? Like, I had prawns. I can't remember where I was. It was on one of our travels. Yeah. But they were like 12 inches long on an 8-inch plate, like dangling off and moving. And I was like, I am not eating this.

I prefer my food does not move. I mean, here's what I learned. One thing I did learn. I'm a picky eater. I've learned that every culture has meat and starch. That's what I learned. That no matter where I go, there's always stuff that I can eat. Although it helps to have a translator.

Like when we go to Japan, Ron Foster is a... Oh, yeah, you totally need a guide. He's someone from our office, but he speaks fluent Japanese. And, like, it is so important to have someone who speaks the language. Because especially for me, who I'm picky, like, Ron will read it to me. He goes, oh, yeah, you want this. This is the thing you want. Or, or Ron will explain to them what I want, because, uh, getting special orders is really,

really hard when you don't speak the language. So, I'm trying to, any other, uh, I realize here we are, uh, we're a little short because we, uh, your house is closer than my house. Yeah. Um, so, actually, any wrap-up stories? Any final... Final thoughts? Final thoughts about

travels abroad? Oh, you know, we didn't talk about, we didn't talk about the people as much. Like, one of the things

that I'm fascinated by is when we travel and you get to meet people from all around the world that, we talked about how when they're playing magic that they're the same,

but it's really interesting when you interact with them how much, like, they love magic and they want to talk about magic and they're really, you know, they love interesting when you interact with them how much they love magic and they want to talk about magic. They love interacting with you. One of the things I'll do a lot is

we'll go somewhere and we'll have drafts or something where people can draft with me. And they get really, really excited. And it's fun. It's just fun interacting with the fans all around the world. It's like you've heard stories

about people who have a communication barrier. Like the kid who he and his dad couldn't relate, except when they talk about baseball or something like that. And for the sort of people that show up at events that we go to, magic is absolutely that thing. Like you might have nothing else in common, but the universal language of sort of, I don't know, fantasy geekdom, it's powerful. And the thing I love is how, like, one of the neat things about this job is you will do something, and then when you get to see people actually enjoy it, like it's one thing to sort of hear about people enjoying it, but it's another when you get to look in their face and see them enjoy it.

I did think of something just now that was funny. When we were in Australia for Worlds, I did think of something just now that was funny. When we were in Australia for Worlds, I was speaking earlier about how in some of the Asian cultures they like to bring gifts. Right, yeah. And this guy brought me what I think were, and what the people around me think were, a small set of brass earwax spoons. They were these tiny little, they looked like little shovels that I think were supposed to use to clean out your ears. I've never gotten gifts like that.

I don't know what to make of that. Was he telling me something? Yeah, well, one of the things in a lot of the Asian cultures is when you're being hosted by someone, they give you a gift, which is from their area. It's like one of the things when I was in, was it Korea? I got this little jewelry box that I got. And so I ended up giving it to my, at the time, girlfriend, later my wife. And to this day, this is their jewelry box.

It's a gift I got from them. And it's kind of funny that I sort of look back that a lot of mementos in my house, like I have a lot of art in my house that I bought from different places. In fact, different bathrooms in my house are different. Like this is African art and this is Asian art. So what's your favorite place you ever visited? What was your most favorite place? It's got gotta be Sydney.

Maybe that's because it was such a wonderful combination of like recognizable Western culture, like an American would, would sort of feel comfortable in, but also with a complete international flair. And it had a wonderful blend of city and nature, like all integrated. Okay, since you said Sydney, which might have been my answer, I'm going to say Venice. Venice was, I really, really liked Venice. There was something about it that had a mystical quality to it almost. Hong Kong, by the way,

I managed to go to Hong Kong before, back when Hong Kong was independent. And Hong Kong is this weird mix of ancient, ancient, ancient civilization mixed with brand new. So it's like you'll see a building that must be thousands of years old with bright neon lights on it. And just the contrast is just... That's weird.'ll see a building that must be thousands of years old with like bright neon lights on it

and just the contrast it's just it is it is a weird I find it fascinating that's actually one of the things that I really appreciate

about Paris and that is it's not ubiquitous this way but for the most part they have a part of the city that is absolutely

contemporary and modern and like business and finance driven. And then there is the beautiful old stuff from ages ago. And they keep that somewhat separate, which I appreciate. Yeah.

Okay, well, I think we're doing good on time. So we're getting the full allotment of a podcast. So anyway, we are now in the parking space. So we all know what that means. That means it's the end of my drive to work. So instead of talking magic, it's time for me to be making magic. So see you guys next time.