Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - A Second Chance On Love - The Real Chicken and Dragon Story - Interview by Jennie Drollinger - E-194

Episode Date: August 7, 2026

In this episode of Second Chances: The Best Parts Are on Side B, Dr. JC and Mieke share an extraordinary story of love after divorce, healing, manifestation, adoption, and second chances. Vote for Chicken And Dragon Here For America's Favorite Couple: https://americasfavcouple.org/2026/jean-claude-claude-doornick After seven years of dating disappointments, one final swipe brought them together. Then Mieke revealed she planned to adopt her late sister’s daughter—the same little girl Dr. JC had been dreaming about for years. Through grief, financial hardship, therapy, and the challenges of adoption during COVID, they learned how honesty, communication, resilience, and authentic love can carry a relationship through adversity. A powerful reminder that the love—and family—you have been searching for may arrive in a way you never expected. Takeaways: The power of manifestation and law of attraction in love Healing from past ruptures and divorce to find true love The role of self-love and authenticity in attracting a partner Unbelievable signs and synchronicities that guided their journey The importance of trust and surrender in relationships How shared values and purpose strengthen their bond The impact of adversity and resilience on love The unique story of adopting Lexi and blending families   Connect with Dr. J.C. Doornick: https://www.facebook.com/jeanclaudedoornick https://www.drjcdoornick.com/ https://www.makessensepodcast.com/follow/ https://a.co/d/02I3pgl7   Reach out to Jennie here: [e-mail]. https://www.facebook.com/2ndchanceonlove https://www.instagram.com/2ndchanceonlove/ https://www.youtube.com/@2ndchanceonlove https://substack.com/@secondchanceonlove Have a Second Chance story to share? Visit https://secondchanceonlove.com/ to connect, share your story, or to be featured as a guest on the podcast.   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey everyone, Dr. J.C. here. Today's episode is going to be a little bit different, and honestly, a real treat for both my wife and I. Instead of me asking the questions, the tables are going to get turned today. My wife and I, as you know, are running for America's favorite couple this year, and we're doing very well, thanks to all of you. Well, we had the opportunity to sit down with the actual previous winner of America's favorite couple, and that's Jenny Drollinger, who has a podcast as well, and she actually interviewed my wife and I digging further into our story,

how we found each other and what's been driving us in this year's competition. Before we dive in, though, I have to give a huge heartfelt thank you to Jenny Drolinger from the Second Chance on Love podcast for making this happen. She creates some of the most inspiring and amazing content out there on the topics of love and relationships, and I genuinely think that you're going to love her work. So listen to the episode, but then go give her a follow. see that her channel's pinned in the comments below. This conversation is raw, it's real, and it's the side of us that you haven't seen before.

So stick around. Make sense? Have you noticed that the world that we live in has been doing most of the thinking for you? That your beliefs, perceptions, reactions, fears and doubts have been shaped by unsolicited outside noise? How easy it's been for you to slip into that default sleep walking mode and label it as life and reality. Yeah, that ends here. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. This is your opportunity to start thinking for yourself, reclaim control, and step back into that role as the

shock caller and dominant force of your own reality. It's when you change the way that you look at things, that the things that you look at begin to change. So let's wake up. Let's rise up. And let's make sense of why and how shift happens. Makes sense. Today's episode is about something a lot of people quietly wonder is second chance love after divorce real. What happens when you've been through heartbreak? You've done the work and then find deeper, more intentional kind of love. I'm joined by Dr. J.C. Dormick and his wife, Mickey, their story.

Mika. Mika. Close. Close enough. But you know why? But we already feel so close to your audience, they can call her Miki. Yeah, you can. Totally.

I'm okay with that pet name. And we're going to find out in their story about their nicknames, chicken and dragon. I have no idea. So I'm as excited as everybody else to know about it. But I think there's stories about growth and connection and having the courage to try again. Because sometimes the real love story starts after everything falls apart. So welcome you two. Thank you.

Like I said, literally know nothing about your story. So I'm eager to listen and learn. So let's start at the beginning. Tell a little bit about each of you individually before you met. Okay. And before we do that, I think we're going to let our cat in here. Samson. He wants to be part of the podcast.

He wants to be part of the podcast. I just locked mine out. Because she- He tried to, but Samson cries like a baby. Just leave the door open. Yeah. So that's that's, that's. He feels neglect.

Hashtag real life. We're running a zoo over here. So why don't you go first and talk about the before Dragon Times? Oh, before Dragon Times was chaotic. So I was actually living in New York City. And I was working as an actor because that's how I got to the US. I came here for acting school and doing auditions and all that stuff. And I was staying with a friend of mine one night at his.

He had an A, B, and B. So he always had guests come and go. And one of the nights, there was a guest who was a clinical sexologist. And I was like, oh, I've never heard about that. What is that? And she explained to me what she does for a living. And we got into talking about sex. And she was like, wow, you would be really good at this.

And I went, oh, please. Well, wait a second. Are we allowed to talk about sex on this show? Oh, yes, are we? Yes. Yes, this is all about it. I'm sorry. It's your story.

I'm a therapist. So for me, that is such a normal way of speaking. And then I realize afterwards, like, people are clutching their pearls. And they're like, what? That's a wild ride. But anyway, so what happened was I became interested in that. I thought, okay, well, let me explore it. And so I became a clinical sexologist.

And right before I met Jayce, I was actually working a lot with couples. on navigating miscommunication and intimacy concerns. And I had such a fulfilling job, but deep down, I felt like a hypocrite because I was dating and I was not meeting this person that I really wanted to be with. And my dating life was a mess. I was a complete avoidant attachment. So I would crave intimacy with someone. And as soon as they came close, I would push them away.

And so there was this like push-pool thing in my my personal life and my career. I just felt like I wasn't really living authentically because I was sitting with these couples telling them how to be couples. Oh, yeah. So they came a point where I really, really just wanted to give up on the dating scene. And then this one came along one night when I was bored on a Sunday. I said, you know what? Before I delete this app, I'm going to give it one more swipe. And then that happened.

I matched with with Jacey, with my dragon. Well, it's a little bit more complicated than that. It is. But so simultaneously, so Mika was never married prior, as far as I know. I never, you know, one thing that was interesting about when we met is I didn't care about anything that ever happened with her prior. You know, I just knew. But so I was, I was previously married to a one. wonderful, you know, human, my friend from growing up. And, you know, it wasn't, I don't have hard

feelings. We had a wonderful divorce. I'm thinking about writing a book on how to have a successful divorce, in fact, meaning, you know, there was respect and I took great care of her, and I showed my kids the way that, you know, an ex-husband should take care of women in general. But she just, we weren't right for each other. We weren't a good match. And we got married young and all. all of that stuff. So sorry, folks, no traumatic divorce story there. And also, I'm really good friends. Yeah, yeah, we're all friends. We're all friends. Yeah, we get along. We have our Christmas morning, like opening presents together. That's right. So, yeah. So I was, you know, when you get divorced, you don't really know what to do next, you know. So I kind of went out on the dating scene and, you know,

didn't have any idea what I wanted. You know, I mean, typically, I think what guys do is they look for something that is different than what they had, you know, so I was confused. I dated some younger women and all that stuff. And it was, it was just a disaster. You know, I was out there on the dating scene for about seven years. And, you know, your current husband knew me during that time. so he probably met a couple of these nightmares.

But in any case, I always knew 100% that anybody that I was courting or dating was obviously not the right one. So, you know, I'll say that during those seven years, I was progressively losing hope and faith that I would ever find somebody. I almost feel like I identified as somebody that was not going to have that experience. And to be honest with you, I was a father. I was very involved with my business. And I was okay with that. I kind of like, you know, was probably manipulating people out there, you know, meaning I was dating people that I knew I wasn't right for and they weren't right for me. I was probably a bit lonely and looking for some companionship. God, we have so much to explain about that, but we want to move through this phase. But needless to say, seven years into it, and it's important once we get, I'll tell you something else that was happening during that time once we get to our daughter. But because I have two sons from my previous marriage who love her. I love them. But yeah, everybody gets along.

It's very strange. It's very odd. You know, if anybody out there that's struggling with divorce and co-parenting, it's not happening here. So seven years into this, you know, I was on dating apps and all of that because, you know, just like your husband, you know, a lot of people knew me. I was speaking on stage. I didn't want to meet anybody in that way. I didn't want people to have the wrong reasons to meet me. So I liked the app thing, but it wasn't working. So I kind of just gave up on it. And, you know, I got to this place where, because dating is exhausting. You know, it's exhausting. to just do the work and spend the money, spend the time. So I just kind of got to this place where I was like, you know, I'm going to get rid of the apps. I'm just going to stop.

I'm going to put my nose down, be a good dad, and just work on my business. And this one, I mean, the way that I found her, you know, just restores your hope in the powers above, you know, because it's pretty much impossible how we met. So we'll get into that part next. But, you know, I pretty much met her, came across her and failed the first time, the night before I was never going to date again. Or at least I thought. I hear you. That was kind of where we were at before.

Yeah. So like I would say about a month before we matched on Bumble, I was in something called a little bit of a situation ship where it's just like you think there's potentially. for a relationship with this person. But there isn't because I, so I'm a couple's therapist and I work a lot with attachment styles. So I'd come to recognize that both myself and this guy were very avoidant. So we would like get close and then avoid, get close and avoid. Oh my gosh.

It was just, I can't even remember how many, I don't think it's considered breakups, but like how many ruptures we had where I said enough is enough I can't do this and it was after one of those that I decided I was like I need to go do some soul searching and I went to a Buddhist temple every Sunday for like four hours and meditated and I started like looking into the law of attraction yeah and I actually said you know if this is going to be my last go at dating I'm going to see if I can manifest this person that I want to be with. And I, every single day, at the end of every day, I would lie there. I'd put my music on and I would lie there and I would just imagine this person that I was going to be with. And in the visualizations, I never saw his face. You didn't have a

specific color of hair. It was more a presence that I felt. And I wanted to tune into that. And so I started doing all of these like woo-woo-woo-wawa stuff like I'll move I started sleeping only on the right side of the bed and I kept the left open and I would you know take baths and these like weird like I was so desperate to meet this person that I tried everything it's really cool like I would move my bed I love it I said oh you've got to move your bed like one inch every day to the left or to make space for the person to come through the door like it was all this like and a part we like laughed at it? I was like, yeah, whatever, this is not cool. But then when Jayce and I, do I, do I jump to when I made you? Well, I don't know. Maybe we can give it back

to her. Yeah, let's work right. Yep. One of the things that I want to say is that had I known that she was doing all of that, I probably would have run for the hills. Just thinking, It's like some weird lady. Some weird lady is like moving furniture around and lighting statues on fire or something. He's casting spells. I'm happy I didn't know about that part.

He only found out about it now. That's like me and my crystals. That's okay. I get it. Yes, I love it. It's great. It brought comfort and peace. Yes. What works. Yeah, it did.

It did. So then. So, yeah, if you want, we can get to like how it actually unfolded. I would love to know your connection story. Yeah. So I want to preface it by also, you know, stating something else that was going on with me. Because what's interesting about meeting, let's call it the one, is that it's, I don't think it's something you can try to do. I think that it's more of an attraction. It's an unavoidable attraction. You know, That's the only way I could say it.

Energy. And when I say the one, I'm not talking about like this white picket fence, live happily ever after. I'm talking about loving someone and you can't not love them, right? And it works both ways. So during the seven years that I was failing at dating, there was something going on as well. And this, you know, it's kind of a little bit of a foreshadow, but I was having this reoccurring dream. This is before I met her at all because I was just giving up on anything. But I was having this dream the whole time because we have two boys.

I had a dream that I had a daughter. And it wasn't just like this once in a while dream. I was having this dream like two to three times a week. And it was the same girl, you know, a dream. about her when she was a baby, an adolescent, walking her down the aisle, the whole thing. Same, same girl. And what's interesting about that is, unlike most guys, that kind of prompted me to want to find a woman that had a child, a daughter, because I felt this premonition. And I never did. I never found that person. But I just want to, you know, set that stage because that was something

that was very, very pleasant and made me smile, which is why I never told anyone about it, because you don't tell people you're dreaming about a little girl, and it makes you smile. But I just want to say that that was happening. So for those of you that don't know how these dating apps work, is you set them to have a radius. It's like a force field of how far your pull is, right? And I think it was like 15 miles or something like that. And she lives 45 minutes from me at that time. Actually, more now or not.

Maybe, maybe. So what's really weird is, so I have this app and I'm going to cancel it that day. And for whatever reason, I can't remember why I was driving past New York City and she lived, you know, in Queens. At the time, yeah. Queens, that's kind of cool. But I managed to somehow turn the app on. at the right time where she would be in my radius. And that's the only reason she came into the app.

So I just want... I have two theories. Okay. He was on his phone while he was driving. Well, that I was doing. Yeah, I was on my phone while. Which is something we talk about all the time. Yeah.

And the other one was the only reason he would be in that area is because he had another date. I definitely didn't have another date. Because all truth be told, I was done with it. I was fatigued from it and I was looking to take a break. So anyway, I saw her picture, and I'll tell you that she didn't look like anybody that I've ever seen before. So I realized that, you know, for those of you that think you have a type, you know, your type is going to be the one that you meet and you don't know what your type is. So I saw her picture and she didn't have a bunch of pictures of her with like tigers and, you know, all that stuff, you know. It was just one picture and she was elegant.

She looked. And in her description, it didn't say anything, but it just said her name and it said South African sex coach. And hand to God. Very smart on my post. I mean, like, I got a lot of matches. I was going to quit on the dating app thing. But when I saw that, I was like, I got to swipe right on that.

So the key thing there is that. I can't say that she was my type. I don't think I've ever seen anybody like her, right? And I'm just partly joking about the South African sex coach. The truth is that something felt unraveled inside of me enough that I was like, screw it and I swiped again or, you know, that last time. And then I forgot about it. But when I went home, because you have a 24-hour span for them to reply.

And if they don't, they just. So the female reaches, the woman has to reach out on mumble curse. Yeah, it's to protect them. And, you know, the time slot was ending and she never replied. Because I was done with dating. But I felt something about it. So I went back to look, you know, no reply. So something that I've never done before in my life, I found out that for like, I don't know, like 20 bucks, you could extend it a day.

and something once again, for anybody that knows me, they know that that was uncharacteristic of me. My ego would have said, screw her, you know. I didn't want her anyway. But something told me to pay the 20 bucks. And I went to sleep. And then when I woke up in the morning, there was just a message from her. And I was excited to see it. But there was a message from her that just said, hi.

That was it. We actually have the screenshot. Yeah, we have the screenshots of these. So we could share it with your listeners if you want. So I'll let her take over from here. But that's all she said. Hi. But I was so excited about it because it meant that I was in, the door.

You know? Yeah, I got a notification the night before that said, JC extended on you. And I was like, who's this? Who's this loser? Like who's this desperate dude? Because when the time, if the time runs out, I believe that you kind of just disappear into the ether. Well, not only that, you'll never see them again.

You'll probably never find. And in a place like New York City, like JC, going back to Connecticut, like when is he ever going to drive through the city again? Right. So I would have been gone. But during that month where I was doing the law of attraction woo-woo stuff, singing kumbaya in my living room, I had. I had this thing where I was listening to wedding songs. I was like, I've never, as a little girl, I never dreamed about my wedding, never even thought I was going to get married.

But for some reason, I was just like drawn to this idea of wedding songs. I was like, oh, I wonder what my first dance would be to. And then Edard James came on the Spotify playlist and I was listening to that. And that kind of became one of my favorite songs. and I would give Ed or James probably like five or six lessons a day. Oh my goodness. The song had lost. That's so cute.

And when I saw Jacey's match on Bumble and I reached out, we immediately said, how about we just get on the phone? Yeah. Like, let's not do this text thing. Now, just imagine speaking to a girl that's a sex therapist with this accent on the phone. She was pretty good at the phone. And I was like, hello. Yeah.

I knew how to play. No, but we had a long conversation. Long conversation, probably like an hour and a half long. And we set up a date for, this was a Wednesday night, I think. We set up our date for the Friday. So it all happened at age, the steakhouse and queens. It all happened really quickly. Yeah.

Because as a sex and couples therapist and also dating therapist, I see a lot with people. Sometimes they get stuck in the dating app world where it never really progresses because you validate each other on the apps. and sometimes that's enough. So we just say something, something is pushing us to go out there and meet each other as quickly as possible. Because I didn't want to fizzle. I didn't want this to fizzle out.

And I drove a good 45 minutes to an hour to meet her at this restaurant. And just, you know, once again, and I know you know this because you guys were on my show. You know, there was a higher power involved in this, you know, like some people struggle to get out of their own. own way, but sometimes you have no choice. You just know you're supposed to at least check it out. So that was kind of happening. So we went to the restaurant and I remember I got there early, which, you know, not normal for me either. You know, I was kind of a jerk. But I got there early because I wanted to greet her. And she came walking in. And once again, she's very tall, right? She's actually six foot six. My wife, I'm just kidding.

I'm six, six one and, you know, she's, she was, she was tall and she was dressed very, very elegantly, a little bit of a downtown abbey vibe, right? She had a covered up. Right. She looked, she looked very, very, um, proper and respectful and things like that. Classy, classy. She had high heels on. And I was just like, you know, holy cow.

So we went and we sat at the table and. No, you're missing the biggest part of the manifestation. Oh, okay, go ahead. So there was this moment where, because I was very, I was great at first dates and then I sucked afterwards. Like all my very flamboyantly, ooh, gay drag queen friends always used to say to me, oh, you are just like so great at first dates, but then everything goes to shit. Like after that. And so I was kind of like a pro at first dates.

and, you know, very cool trying not to be anxious. I walk in and I look at, he stands up and the moment I look at him, that same, and I'm not kidding, I'm not saying this to make the podcast go, this is genuine. I looked at JC and that same feeling that I had when I was doing the visualizations of what the presence, this person's presence would feel like, that came over me. and it was just like, it feels like home. Like that's the weirdest thing. I just like, yeah, it just was it.

I just knew that this was, yeah, I knew that he was the one. So we went and I remember that where we sat and everything. Like we've actually returned to that place for an anniversary. But, you know, this is over seven years ago, by the way. Eight, yeah, or almost eight, yeah. So we went and sat and we were sitting across. from one another. And, you know, everything was going great.

And one of the things I loved about her is that she actually ate. You know, we got this big dinner. And I liked, she had an appetite and things. But all of a sudden, I really, really liked this girl. And I wasn't, you know, my caveman brain was not activated. Like, I wasn't trying to accomplish anything that night. Like, I really liked her. So I asked her, I said from across the table, I said, would it be okay if I came and sat next to you?

So rather than sitting across the table, I came and sat next to her. And she got a little bit shy and things like that. But I did. And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't overdone. I just wanted to be closer to her. And I will say for the record that if you ever walk into a restaurant and see us there, we always sit next to each other today ever since that day. And everybody in this area knows.

never sit across from one another. We sit next to each other, which I think everybody should do. So in any case, we had this wonderful dinner and then all of a sudden, I said, I'm going to go up, I'm going to go use the restroom. So I got up to use the restroom. And as I'm washing my hands about to go back to JC, Edda James starts playing at last. And I'm like, this is very weird. So, isn't that so over the radio? Like I didn't even. picked a song to play. And as I walked, yeah, as I walked out of the bathroom, Jacey stood up and he goes, would you like to dance?

And this is not, there's no dance floor. It's just a restaurant. It's a restaurant. It's a steakhouse. And I'm like, yes. You see, they're so cute. Oh, my God. All very uncharacteristic of both of us.

So needless to say, we had a wonderful night. And I just remember, one of the things that was funny that she said to me that night is she says, just so you know, you'll be getting none of this tonight, right? So we had the same sense of humor. It was a wonderful, wonderful date. And I just remember when I dropped her off how I was just like, I do not want to mess this up. Like, you know, I went home and any like thing that I had still going, like a girl that I was dating, any open door for anybody, I went home and closed. them all, you know, and I was like, it just felt so right. So after that, you know, we, God, you know, I don't know how much detail we have and how much time, but, you know, she eventually

came to visit me. We had a couple more dates. The cat, my cat, Niles, would come with from the city. Yeah, she would come and we just never, I never wanted her to leave. I never wanted time away from her. And that was new for me. And, And I mean, God, it was like two, three weeks that she just never left. I moved in. And I called my dad. I said, dad, I just want to let you know, I met this guy and I'm moving to Connecticut. And he was like, you're moving to what?

And I'm like, I'm moving to Connecticut. He's like, so what, wait, wait, wait, my dad was, I levered. And he ended up loving, I mean, he ended up loving Jacey so much. But yeah, it was kind of the way it happened was, Jacey was going to go to France to see his dad and he said why don't you just stay at my place like you here with the cat it was kind of my way of like trapping her there so that when I got back from France she'd still be there but then what happened was I actually developed hernia and it was an emergency surgery so the morning that he left no you left the night before but the morning of I was

in excruciating pain so I ended up getting myself in a cab because New Yorkers we on drive. I didn't have a call there. So I just took an Uber to Greenwich Hospital and had emergency surgery. And her mother and my mom arrived. Okay. And then, oh, we never spoke about. Well, we have to, we have to insert something here. Sure. So these are all crazy, crazy things that have happened that for us now make complete sense. But I want to go back to the, the, the dreams that I was having of the daughter. So she, we were moving very, very fast, you know, in the sense that we never wanted to be apart from one another. And our parents thought we were crazy and all that stuff. Yeah, I know. But there was one, there was one night where Mika said to me, she said, listen, now keep in mind,

Mika's never been married and she doesn't have a daughter and anything, but I didn't care. You know, I, I didn't, matter of fact, I didn't care about anything, you know, of her past. I knew that I wanted to be with her. So she said to me one night, she says, listen, we're moving very fast and there's something that I need to let you know about me. And I said something funny after that. And I meant it. I was like, what, you've got a wooden leg? You used to be a man. I don't care. I'm in anyway. And it's true. I had decided that this is the one, you know. So she says, she laughed, but she says, well, actually, you know, sad to say that, you know, a couple of years ago, or almost two years ago, she told me that her sister had passed away, tragically. And I was like, oh, that's so,

and her and her sister were like very, very close. So I was like, oh, my God, that's so sad. And I thought that's what she wanted to tell me. But meanwhile, she goes, well, that's not it. What I need you to know. And I remember when she was telling me this, that, something once again, I'm very, very intuitive and I'm very much in touch with the universe and things like that. So I don't like, I always sense things. I have a, like that six sense. So something's unraveling in me and she says, well, what I, what I need you to know is my sister passed away, but left behind her daughter. And was at the time eight years old. Six years old. No, she was six years old. Well, eight at this time. Yeah. Okay.

So anyway, she doesn't know about my dreams and stuff like that. And I remember when she said, so you need to know that I come with a daughter because I'd be adopting my niece. Yeah. And I remember I started to sweat a little bit, not in a nervous way, but like in an overwhelmed way. My nervous system was like, is this really happening right now? and she doesn't know, and I'm not going to tell her that I've been dreaming about a daughter. Everything's going great, you know. So meanwhile, she's probably worried that I'm going to run for the hills now, and it was

almost like a test. So I said, oh, my God, that's so beautiful. I said, can I see a picture of her? And this is the part where most people will struggle to believe this. But hand to God, it's the girl that I'm dreaming of. I could have drawn a picture of her. I mean, she actually looks like me and my kids.

She looks more like me and my kids than her family. Yeah. So her name is Lexington. When I saw her picture, my heart stopped because I was like, but it was in a good way. It was like, oh my God,

like it's all happening. You know, I've got the girl, the daughter and all of that stuff. It just felt so ripe. And then when Mika had that service, So I was very excited about this, but, you know, I didn't want to rush things. I didn't want to like call the little girl and be like, I'm your new dad, you know.

But even though I got a lot of it. But when I went to France and she had to have that surgery, her mother and her and Lexi decided to get on a plane and come and support her while I'm in France. So while I'm in France, in my beautiful, you know, high-rise apartment at the time, she's living there, finding all sorts of notes and things from ex-girlfriends and stuff. That's another funny thing. And now Lexi and her mother come to America and I'm still in France. So now I'm going to come home from France and not only be with my dream girl, but now I'm going to meet this little girl. And the granny.

and all the friends from New York City. All the gay friends. Every one of her friends is gay. These are men that show up at our house in high heels and everything. But in any case, when I met Lexie, and she was just this little teeny little girl, she just jumped right in my arms and we knew each other. We knew each other.

And she was not that kind of kid. No. She was not. and we are inseparable, like inseparable. She knew about me, I knew about her, everything. So what I'll say about relationships is, because I remember your story, it's one thing when you have things like chemistry and you feel like things are right, but it's another when the universe comes down and puts a stamp of approval

or an exclamation point and says, this is it. So, you know, after that day, I know that everybody thinks that when you meet the right one, everything is just, you know, Julie Andrews running through a room with a cartoon on her freaking hand. Let me just tell you that this woman and I have been through a lot. Yeah. I mean, there's no, we always say that there's no way anyone else would have gone through

what we've been through together, from financial collapse to parents dying. Adoption and the adoption process during COVID, most people would kill themselves. And just everything that could go wrong went wrong for the two of us. And we never faltered. In fact, it just continued to strengthen our relationship. So, you know. I think that I'm at a point in this relationship way, like I was saying to, Jacey yesterday, I just walked into the living room and I said, you know, I'm, I'm so happy with my

life. I'm so happy. And things could be better. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I said, I hope that I live for many, many, many, many years. And it was the first time that I really acknowledged it. And we have been through a lot. And despite that, I still always felt safe because I knew I had a partner. In a sea of craziness, We have everything that we've ever wanted. So no matter how good or bad life could ever get, we're good. We're good like this. And that's one of the messages that we want to share is, you know, this woman right here is amazing, but she's also crazy as a loon, right?

And I probably am too, but she could do no one. You know, one thing I can tell you with people that are in disbelief is that that I will be with this one until the day I die, if she'll have me. Of course. You know, and that's how it all unfolded. That's our story. Yeah. That's our story.

So what makes it work? What makes it work that you want to keep going and not just throw in the towel when things get hard? That is a very good question. Do you want me to go first? Yes. Okay. Absolutely. I want to think about this.

I think that in a relationship, you're foolish to get a time. to the physical and even the chemical, right? I think that human beings need to look at their partner and recognize how they're part of your destiny and your future. So when I look at Mika or chicken, what I see is that I actually feel like I was put on this planet to take care of her and make her feel safe. It's like why I'm here.

I do a lot of interesting things. I write. I do my podcasting, the coaching and all that stuff. And I'm a parent and all that. But when I really look at who I am and what my purpose is here, I feel like it is to make my wife feel loved and safe.

And that's why it's no matter what. we go through. That's still my job, you know. And that's just, I think it's a certainty. I'm glad that you went first because I will say, you know, as a couple's therapist, something that very often happens is at the end of the day, when I'm done with all of my couple sessions, I'm really able to put my life into perspective.

And I go, wow, they are couples out there, really, really struggling to connect and to trust each other. And there's been infidelity. And there's just so much heart. heartache. And I look at Jacey and I know at the end of the day that I have a partner, and this is no jokes, I have a partner who really, really values me and who I can really trust. I mean, Jacey could go out to Vegas tomorrow by himself. Well, that's another thing is I don't go anywhere without her, you know.

And that's, you know, I don't want to go away without her. And for those of you that think that we're in like some sort of puppy love, we've been through more than most people have been through almost eight years now. And you're hearing this message after we've been through the honeymoon phase and all of that stuff. So, you know, for those, the only people that ever doubt that something like this can happen or people that don't have it. Yeah, it is Ray. It definitely is. I mean, but once again, like when I work with couples, I always try to keep in mind that hopefully this would be. the goal for them. I don't tell them about my relationship, of course, as a therapist,

but I always secretly hope that they would find what we have, which is just this deep trust. Do you want to share what this jacket is about? Oh, this is the jacket that is. You didn't ask me about my Prince Charming jacket. I was going to ask you, and I want to know what this jacket is. He proposed in this jacket in front of everyone, 10,000 people. When I proposed to her, We were at an Optivia convention, and that's how I know your lovely husband. So that's been such an honor for me to, you know, first of all, your book is amazing and your story is amazing. And you guys had this wild ride with Vanity Fair and everything. But, you know, for those listening, like Brian Drolinger is a very, very good friend of mine, somebody that I know I'll be friends with for a life.

and we share, I met him through, we worked for the same company. And we were at a national convention. There was 11,000 people there. And I had this idea of proposing to her in front of all of them. So the way that that worked was, I always dressed kind of funny. So she wasn't surprised by that. But I had got tight yellow pants on and this Prince Charming jacket and these funny

glasses and we're walking out and very, very commonly people would, you know, pull us over to interview us because they were like the leaders of the company and stuff like that. You know, just like you're getting that now too when you come to those events. So the guy that owns the company and the president of the company are standing there in tuxedos. And they said, hey, J.C., come over here, right? And she's not, she's watching me. She usually watches.

And they're interviewing me. and she can't really hear what I'm saying, but all of a sudden she sees, we have this on video, she sees me call her over and she's standing there and she's like, you know, wondering what the heck's going on. But it's just an interview on the side, right? And then all of a sudden I take a knee and I, and Dr. Anderson, you know, the guy has the ring in his pocket. He was holding the ring. He was in on A knee. What's that? He was in on it.

Oh, yeah, everybody was in on it. Well, wait, it gets crazier. So I take a knee and she's like, oh, my God, you know, she's freaking out and we put the ring on her finger. And everybody in that little area is congratulating us. But then we start walking to go to the convention. And it wasn't until we walked in and 11,000 people screamed that she realized that it was being broadcast on the jumbo tromb. Imagine I said no. reputation ruined

yeah that was that was the first time I realized how stupid that could have been but that's how I proposed to her I wanted to make it special it was great it was lovely perfect so that's our story I know it's a boring one but no it's not and and this is what I want to ask too

what do you guys appreciate most about each other your gratitude I would just I mean, I don't want to overcomplicate this, but, you know, she feels like home. You know what I mean? Like, I think there's a loneliness epidemic in the world. And I never look at her and say, oh, I'm glad that I have her or something like that.

Like, I can't imagine my life without her. You know, like it would be like losing an appendage or something like that. So what I love about her is how, I guess, this is kind of lame for a guy to say, but how safe I feel around her. Yeah. Well, it's not lame to say in front of two women, but the guys will think it's lame. Actually, I'm okay with that. Same thing.

It's okay. What about you? I think what I really, one of the things, one of the many, many, many things that I appreciate about Tracy is what a good daddy is. it is like I don't think I could have asked for a better father for Lexi I mean it is just incredible and I think if you look back on all of the stuff that we went through very very very few people would step up to the plate in the way that he did yeah amen we didn't have it we were god any only people that know what adoption is in general but international adoption of South Africa

I can't imagine so much corruption The universe offered us 500 opportunities to bail out of that. And I mean, a lot of people don't know this, but we gave everything in our life up for that little girl. We actually ended up moving back to South Africa. We got rid of our home, all of our belongings. All we had was a suitcase each. Are you kidding? Are you kidding?

Yeah. Well, because Lexi was stuck. She was stuck there and she was getting depressed. This little girl had a rough start in life. Yeah. She was so excited to come to America, but then COVID stopped that, and nobody was allowed in the country. So Mika and I, you know, at the risk of business going away and all of our luxuries that we had, we just moved to South Africa and just to be with this little girl. And that's when my dad got sick and Tracy ended up helping me take care of my dad in his final days.

and passed away and I mean like so many crazy things but it was the greatest decision that we ever made because like this little girl she's so cool yeah she's getting a driver's license she's getting a driver's license she competes internationally in jiu jitsu she's so cool she's beautiful and she looks just like jacy it's so bizarre i did not know she was not your biological daughter jacey yeah a lot of people don't yeah she looks like my looks like my looks like my looks like my son Jackson a lot. Yes, yes. They definitely look like so. How did the blending go with the children, with her, and then your two sons? Well, I mean, my boys, I like to boast a little bit. I did a good job bringing them up. They're wonderful. They're very respectful. They never gotten any trouble or anything

like that. So when they met Lexi, I didn't know how they would receive the idea of having a sister, but they loved the idea. And it's the greatest thing. ever. They love her so much. They want, they smother her. But the only problem is that she probably will never be able to date a boy like ever. Because there are such great examples. I don't think that anybody else could ever match up. Nobody's, nobody's, nobody's good enough for her. So whenever she's asked us if she can like go out on a date, we say, run it by your brothers. And they're like, no, no. Absolutely not. Who is this guy? And they do a background trick. How special is that? So one, one,

piece of advice, if you could kind of counsel or give advice to somebody who feels like their chance at love has passed them by. What would you guys want to share with somebody listening that's like, oh, that's never going to happen to me? Manifest. I think that you should start with the connection that you have with yourself. I think that sometimes we expect other people. to fill that need within us and that expectation very often sets us up for failure. So I would say focus on yourself, start doing the work because when you get to a healthy place, that is really when you start attracting the person that needs to come into your life. You make space.

And obviously our story is so much more intricate. So I could have spent six hours just talking about that month before I met Jacey so you can know how much work I put into myself and how I got to to a place with like a Buddhist temple. And I felt I loved myself finally. We often talk about the fact that had we met at a different time, we wouldn't have been ready for it. I don't think I would have been ready for something that's serious and committed because I was so avoidant. I agree with that. So I would say start with yourself. And then once you really feel like you know yourself and you love yourself fully and you can be okay by yourself, that's when you give it one more try.

And then I would just add to that. I probably would have said the same thing because I fully agree with the, you have to be, the first thing you have to do to attract someone is become attractive. Not to everybody else, but to yourself. So I love that. But the only advice I would give, I'm 54 years old. By the way, she's only 25. But 54 and 20. That's a joke, by the way, for those of you listen to the podcast. She looks it.

Although she looks like she's 25. Oh, that sounds nice. But I don't want to go back to 25. Those were some wild. I would just say to trust the process. You know, I think the biggest struggle that people have, is this illusion that we control outcomes. You know, and I could say detach from the outcome,

but it's okay to have a goal. Yeah. And that's where manifestation comes into place. But in order for you to find, this is just my belief at this time, and God, look at your story, right? A lot of things have to fall into place to be able to meet the right one that you don't control. It's beyond you.

So when I say trust the process, I would just say the person that you're supposed to be with, I can't guarantee that you'll meet them. I hope you do. But they're out there. Yeah, they are out there. Maybe they are more than one, you know, that you can have different. More than one? Is there something you want to tell us?

No. I mean, don't limit yourself to this idea that you only have one person and you have to find this one person. because I think that puts way too much pressure. I think that we are able to work with many different people. I found my person, so I don't want many different people. I think he's going, are you opening the relationship? No. But what I'm saying is that you have to allow it to happen rather than try to make it happen.

Yeah, I think so. Just trust it. Trust the universe. So this leads perfectly, J.C., until your recently released book, Makes Sense. Well, that's what's so great about the book. Nice.

There's a whole chapter that recounts this whole story in even more detail. But yeah, the book is called Make Sense. And what I'll tell you just in relation to our conversation today, and that's, you know, for those of you that don't know, I have a podcast called Make Sense with Dr. J.C. It's amazing. I follow you. I listen to you.

Yeah, that's crazy. Well, a lot of things fall into place when things fall into place. You know, I mean, my podcast's number four in the world right now. And I can't tell you that I made, I worked hard at it. But, you know, when you're sitting in a congruent, authentic space in life, you know, other things happen. But the book is a recount of all of these just pivotal things that have happened in my, my life that, you know, brought me into this space where I became increasingly more conscious and aware of things and things started to make more and more sense. And then I teach a system of how,

you know, people can reframe anything in their life. You know, they can change the way they look at things so that the things that they look at change. And I think that the reason why I'm passionate about this book, and I wouldn't have been able to complete the book had I not had this experience with her. That's why it took eight years, by the way, to write the books because it wasn't ready to finish it. Makes sense. I think that most people, and this message might be for the people that feel like they're stuck or they're not going to find love, I think it's important for people to recognize that we live in a world that unbeknownst to most people is doing the thinking for us. We're being conditioned and persuaded to think

and feel a certain way that we did not ask for. And this book and this system that I teach is about coming back home to yourself and therein probably allowing yourself to become the person that will attract the other person in life. So I don't think that you can fake your way to love. I tried it. It doesn't work. you know, and, you know, once again, listen to your story. I mean, like, what makes your story so great? And I was along the ride for the other side of that story. So that's why it's so fun for me to hear.

And Brian as well, Brian knew me before I knew chicken. But you always look at it and you go, God, what are the odds that that could happen? But because of our experience, let's say very high, those odds, very, very high. if you're being yourself and you're living authentically and focusing on the right thing, keeping the main thing, the main thing. Stop doom scrolling and reading Reddit forums on how bad relationships can get and start looking at the brightest side of it. Right.

Rewire your brain so that you can attract. I'm a firm believer in that. I see it work with couples and my individual clients. And don't expect it to be easy. It's not. And I think anything that's worth it isn't easy. So, yeah. Oh, I understand that, sister.

Yes, you do. It never gets easier. It gets easier, but never easy. Yeah. But life would be boring if it was. Yeah. Right? You have to have some spicy.

Meanwhile, just so you know, my wife is scrolling right now and checking Reddit. No, I'm not. I'm looking at my schedule. Yes, it's probably time to go. But thank you so much, chicken and dragon. Thank you. And chicken and dragon comes from the apple and emoji, by the way. Just so you know, that's how it started.

It was like when we were in our first phase, we were communicating with each other with apps that could speak. I was a dragon. She was a chicken. I had an old lady voice like, hello, darling. Now people don't even know our names. They call us chicken and dragon. Yeah. Yep.

So, okay, well, chicken and dragon. Thank you. This conversation is such a powerful reminder that love is a powerful reminder that love is a always about finding the right person at the right time. Sometimes it's about becoming the right person and trusting that life will reconnect when you're ready. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you for having us. This was fun. That's it for today. To support the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, be sure to subscribe, like, and share as well as follow the Make Sense substack for free daily quotes, live streams, and blogs. And remember, learn.

Learning without action is just another form of distraction. If something hit home and you learn something today, give it away. That's the only way it's going to stay. See you next time. Makes sense.