Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick - He's Guided Thousands Through Ayahuasca, 5-MeO-DMT & Peyote — Here's What No One Tells You E- 185

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

What if the most powerful therapy available right now isn't in a clinic? Is it in a jungle? My guest today has sat in a ceremony with hundreds of people. He's guided them through Ayahuasca in the Amazon, through the full-force blast of 5-MeO-DMT from Bufo toad venom, through peyote, San Pedro, and mushrooms, and he has seen people fall apart and put themselves back together in a single weekend. But he's also seen how it could go wrong. And that's exactly what we need to talk about. Billy Venkatraman is a life coach, a CBT and NLP-trained practitioner, and the founder of I AM TRIBE — and he's here to give you the most honest conversation about plant medicine you've probably ever heard. Stay with me.   Connext With Billy V Website: www.arkanainternational.com IG: b.venkatraman I AM TRIBE: www.iamtribe.com   Follow Dr. JC Doornick and the Makes Sense Academy:► Makes Sense Substack - https://drjcdoornick.substack.com ► Instagram: / drjcdoornick ► Substack: / drjcdoornick ►Facebook:  / makessensepodcast ►YouTube:  / drjcdoornick     MAKES SENSE PODCAST Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast. This podcast explores topics that expand human consciousness and enhance performance. On the Makes Sense Podcast, we acknowledge that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works, and that perception is subjective and an acquired taste. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at begin to change. Welcome to the uprising of the sleepwalking masses. Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast. SUBSCRIBE/RATE/REVIEW & SHARE our new podcast. FOLLOW Podcast: You will find a "Follow" button in the top right. This will enable the podcast software to alert you when a new episode launches each week. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/makes-sense-with-dr-jc-doornick/id1730954168 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1WHfKWDDReMtrGFz4kkZs9?si=003780ca147c4aec Podcast Affiliates: Kwik Learning: Many people ask me where I get all these topics, which I've been covering for almost 15 years. I have learned to read nearly four times faster and retain information 10 times better with Kwik Learning. Learn how to learn and earn with Jim Kwik. Get his program at a special discount here: https://jimkwik.com/dragon OUR SPONSORS: Operly - Take Back Control of your Work Day and Get Rid of All Your AI Apps - Welcome to the new world of Time Freedom and Unlimited Scaling and Success with Operly -  https://go.getoperly.ai/video?ref=jean-claude-claude-d-2a95 Blue Blinds Bakery - Hand Crafted with all-natural ingredients - www.blueblindsbakery.com     0:00 - Introduction – Is Plant Medicine the Future of Healing? 3:12 - Billy V's Journey Into Plant Medicine 13:21 - Who Are You Beyond Your Identity? 17:01 - How Can Plants Become Teachers? 22:06 - What Makes a True Maestro? 33:44 - Ayahuasca – Pulling Weeds & Planting Seeds 35:03 - What Bufo (5-MeO-DMT) Really Feels Like 39:55 - Which Plant Medicine Has the Biggest Impact? 48:29 - The Medicine Is Already Inside You 54:41 - The Vision Behind I AM Tribe 1:02:47 - Where to Find Billy V & Final Thoughts Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What if the most powerful therapy available right now isn't found in a clinic? It's actually found in a jungle. My guest today has sat in hundreds of plant medicine ceremonies with thousands of people. He's guided them through ayahuasca and the Amazon, through the full force blast of the 5MEODMT from the Bufo Toad Poison, through peyote, San Pedro, and mushrooms. He's seen people fall apart and put themselves back together in a single weekend. But he's also seen how it could go wrong. And that's exactly what we need to talk about. Billy V is a life coach, a CBT and NLP trained practitioner, and the chief Dharma officer at the world-renowned Arcana Spiritual Centers.

And he's also the founder of I Am Tribe. And he's here to give us the most honest conversation about plant medicine that you've ever heard before. Stay with me. And welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, Billy V. Have you noticed that the world that we live in has been doing most of the thinking for you? That your beliefs, perceptions, reactions, fears and doubts have been shaped by unsolicited outside noise? How easy it's been for you to slip into that default sleepwalking mode and label it as life and reality. Yeah, that ends here. Welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. This is your opportunity to start thinking for yourself, reclaim control, and step back into that role as the shock caller and dominant force of your own reality.

It's when you change the way that you look at things, that the things that you look at begin to change. So let's wake up, let's rise up, and let's make sense of why and how shift happens. Hmm. Makes sense. There's very few facilitators in the space that have worked with as many medicines as Billy, ayahuasca, peyote, San Pedro cactus, psilocybin mushrooms, and the powerful Bufo Alvarius, better known as 5MEODMT. This makes him unusually well positioned to compare traditions, risks, and outcomes.

His practice also integrates things like yoga, Vipasana meditation, and breathwork. Here's the controversy. the plant medicine space has become increasingly scrutinized with stories of deaths at ayahuasca retreats, unregulated facilitators, and the predatory spiritual tourism. These are all live debates. Billy's public-facing work positions him as a voice for safety and informed consent, which puts him in a dialogue with and sometimes against more traditional underground practitioners that we're seeing pop up.

The commercialization of indigenous ceremonies is another. fault line that's worth exploring on the air today. Welcome. Once again, you know, not, not many people get repeat visits on the show, but you are one of them. So welcome to the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast by great friend and repeating guest, Billy Venkatroman. Good to see you, brother. So we're going to start off with some of our traditional kind of break you in stuff because this is going to, we're going to, Billy is a good friend of mine and we've had a lot of life experience. together and we're going to be talking about a really cool, somewhat controversial topic that I think a lot of people are interested in. But my first question is, what does it like to be Billy V these days?

I think that it's like every other human experience. Some days are wonderful. Some days are more difficult. Underlying that, everything is always good. Deeply grateful in general. It must be interesting to be you in the sense that, you know, you began your journey and we'll get into the little bit of that as somebody that was more on the receiving end. And then you took this role as a facilitator, but now you're playing this big, big role as the, you know, Dharma officer of a huge facility and you're also branching out and doing all these other cool projects. what's it like to be somebody of that level of importance that is also managing all of these

experiences that people are having? You know, because when I go on a plant medicine trip and it's, you know, I set my intentions and I'm doing all that stuff. I'm not really responsible for anybody else there, but you're kind of like almost like a puppet master of times. Like it's a pretty big responsibility that you have. What is that like to be in that role? Do you like it? Is it something that's part of your own growth process? Honestly, I don't see it as a responsibility. I see I'm living.

I'm living. And so I don't think about the scale or the people that I call space for. It's more like just living and giving my heart to the moment that I'm in moment to moment. And hopefully that's enough. So yeah, I don't see it as a responsibility in terms of holding space for people constantly. and constantly being immersed in this world, sometimes it can have challenges because you don't necessarily get much time for yourself.

And at the same time, I have made my purpose almost facilitating space so that other people can experience the love of within themselves. And that brings so much joy that it's less of a responsibility, more of a joy. I find it very fulfilling, fulfillment to like fully fill the moment with holding space for people to reconnect with the love within themselves. So I enjoy it for the most part. But there are times where you also need your

own space for sure. Yeah. What that's making me curious about, you know, you and I were talking about open curiosity. We'll talk about that more. But what I'm curious about right now is I very often find that, you know, when I'm helping people, when I'm in service to people, I often question whether it's them or myself that's getting more out of it. Do you ever find yourself in your position now? Because I mean, you're you're fully entrenched and committed to this process and you also have the luxury of experiencing everybody else's growth. I mean, you have a lot of knowledge and experience around. It's very different than somebody that just goes out to an ayahuasca trip and has this profound thing. Like, you've seen that happen many, many times. Do you ever question whether or not,

you know, what it is that your version of experiencing it is, you're getting more out of it than them. You ever ponder that? I think I'm getting a lot out of it in a different way to them. When I'm in a Bufo ceremony or an ayahuasca ceremony and I'm playing music with Alikio, one of the maestros here, or sat with Ariel playing music, sometimes I'm involved in these ceremonies and these medicine experiences, these healing processes, even group share where I guess talking about their visions and your learning, from people's experiences.

I sit there and I think, wow, what a privilege this life is. I feel incredibly blessed, so I'm receiving so much. But again, it's like anything. Any job in the world is you're going to get moments where you experience great joy and gratitude and so many treasures in what you do, the community, the experiences. And also, it's going to come with sacrifices. This is no different to anything else is just, This is the path that I choose to experience that.

And it happens, obviously, that in this world is full of magic, is full of many blessings. But yeah, it comes with a lot of sacrifices as well. And I experienced the two. But I obviously love it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here. It's interesting to consider what it's like to live in a world of magic all the time. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I could consider that my life could always be magic.

But, you know, whenever I go out to one of the time. of these retreats and spend time with you and all of these people that you've been mentioning and these amazing humans that I meet. You know, there's something very, very magical about, you know, that's kind of where you live. You're right now in Peru. Am I right? Yeah. And for example, like when you see somebody, honestly, like the world of, well, it's interesting because the whole world is magic. Yeah. But you need to open your eyes to experience the magic. And as you open the lens through the eyes of this world is magic. You'll actually see magic everywhere through various different forms, even if it's just synchronicity in your own life. That's a form of cosmic magic.

It's like you're playing with the harmony of the cosmos and it's presenting presence into your life, which is a form of manifesting magic. Here's something that I want to know. I don't know if I've ever heard your story. And I don't know if we really hit it last time, but how and when were you first called to plant medicine. I went through a four-year process before I first went out to Arcana, and that's when I first met you, and I know what that was like, and I know what I was going through in life, and I know kind of what problem it solved for me to the point where I engaged in it for years now. But how and when were you first called to plant medicine, and for you, what problem did it solve for you at that time? I first started working with mushrooms. I started

I was working with mushrooms around 15 years ago. It's something that I felt very deeply connected to. And the question, the very first time I worked with mushrooms, I asked the question, who am I? And really, the last 15 years has been a journey of discovering the answer to that question. During that time, I then started experimenting with different things. I had great experiences,

and I had some very traumatic experience. traumatic experiences led me to the understanding of reverence and respect for these powerful plant teachers. But I first came to Arcana. So I was on this path anyway, but I was still battling with myself, with addiction, with fear, and being able to express my authentic self, yeah, just in an expanded way. It's actually still a journey that I'm on. Maybe it will be a lifelong journey.

So I was really, at the time I was smoking weed, like every day from morning till night. I wasn't really doing much with my life, even though inherently, like, the spirit knew that there was more. And so I came to Arcana. Actually, after watching a podcast with Blue, she has a podcast, Blue of Earth, I watched the a podcast with her where she had a fishbone that I was talking about pulled out of her neck and she videoed it. This was in Mexico. She videoed it and I thought to myself, wherever that is, that's where I'm going. And so I came to Arcana in Mexico. I worked with peyote and ayahuasca. And I found so,

much healing in that process, uncovering, discovering, and more than anything, just feeling a space where I felt more connected with the truth of myself. But that didn't just come through medicine. That also came through community, through music, through nature, through yoga, through breath, etc. All of the different practices that help integrate, for example, a plant medicine experience, and help you experience truth of self and a sense of unity consciousness. So, yeah, that's my journey to plant medicine. I experienced a number of traumas from a very young age that affected my whole upbringing, actually.

And by the time I was 20, I didn't even know who I was. So I asked who am I? And here I am. I was going to say, what have you learned about yourself? you know, in this present moment, what has it taught you? And I also want to, I don't want to bypass, I want to go back to two things. I think people need to understand how the fishbone thing, and then also this idea of plants being teachers. I remember when I was looking at it from the outside in, if I could look at my own experience, I knew there was something more. And I had heard

about this thing that you could do that would expand, you know, like I always envisioned being in like some Indian tribe and climbing to a mountain and finding my eagle spirit or something like that or in my case a dragon. So that's kind of what drew me to it. I was like, I had a thirst and a knowingness that there was something else. Now, what I found was something way, way more, but you went there saying, who am I? So, and you said yourself that is probably a lifelong journey, but what did you learn about yourself that prompted you to, become who you are today. I mean, I think there's thousands and thousands of people that know who you are that would have no problem explaining who you are because of who they've come to know you by.

But I want to hear it from you. Like, how have you changed? I have changed in so many ways. Who are you? It's a very interesting question. Who are you really? Like if you, if you took away the conditions or the story you are telling yourself. So for example, I'm Billy. And then Billy has a whole story attached to it. I was born in India. And then I grew up in England and I went to this school. But this is really a story that I'm telling, obviously,

and you need to function in this world. You need this to some degree. But who are you in essence is a boundless, limitless, expansive individualized expression of the universe experiencing itself within itself. That's the truth of who you are. And then honestly, life becomes like this, life is like waves, right? Like sometimes you ride the wave, sometimes the wave comes crashing down. Underneath that is the entire ocean.

And so it's this balance between like experiencing this life, as the waves, the highs and the lows and the ups and downs of life. Everything comes in waves, even the sun rays comes in waves, the waves come in waves. But understanding that underneath that I am the sun, like I am the ocean. And that is the truth of who I am. But if you ask that question, I could give you two different answers. I could tell you, this is who I am, I'm Billy, and this is my mom, and this is where I'm from,

And this is the role that I play. This is what I believe in. This is the meaning that I give things. And then I could answer it, who am I the individualized expression of the universe in Vedanta? It's I am Atma Brahma. I Am Atma Brahma. I'm a localized expression of the infinite experiencing itself.

And that's the truth of who we all are, actually. That's really cool to just kind of help. people, you know, our show is all about providing people with reclaiming control of their thinking by giving them the ability to contemplate and think about other ways of looking at things. And you're sure as fuck going to get that today. I love the idea of just recognizing that how we portray ourselves and how we introduce ourselves is always going to cater probably to the person that you're talking to. Because, you know, when you're seven days deep into a retreat, you know, and somebody asks you, who are you? And they're kind of on the same wavelength. Your answer is probably

going to be like, I am you, I am we, I am us, I am it. And those people would totally understand, you know. So that's something important, I think, for people to understand is we all are at different levels of consciousness and different experiences. And that's what's interesting about plant medicine is either you know what it is like or you don't, just like you know what it's like to ride a bike or you don't. You know, if you're on the outside looking at something, you're kind of like subjected to just make it up and decide what it is. And I think this is a big problem. It's just a lot of unknowing and people like to know things. Tell me more about plants being teachers. I know that we got into this, but I think that this is such a powerful thing. I remember this

feeling of being called to something. I didn't know how to explain it at the time. Later I found out that the jungle is so powerful it can actually from across the world call people to it. You know, maybe we're always being called to it and we're just aware of it or not. But I love the idea. And I think a lot of people don't understand this. They think it's like some sort of an experience and people get high and they see something. But you reference them as teachers. So how can plants be teachers? I want to go back and I'm going to know forward just to the I am because it's actually really important.

who you are is I am this is written in all spiritual teachings and you are whatever you proceed I am with which is a beautiful opportunity for you to become whoever you choose to be from I am I am happy and so you are happy I am depressed okay you are depressed and when you understand that you practice that on a consistent level then you become and you show up whoever your I am is to you answer your question. Plant teaches everything is consciousness at the fundamental level, is everything is just an expression of consciousness, your consciousness, the consciousness of animals,

the consciousness of plants. It's all part of this one consciousness. And expressing itself in different ways and different forms. And plants like animals, like humans, have a consciousness. You could talk in depth about that, obviously, like recently. They, for example, I don't know if you've seen they attach these things to plants now, and it plays to specific frequency.

So every plant has its own song because it has its own consciousness. And it's the same with the mycelium network. Like we know, that's like the neural net of the planet. We know that plants can communicate with each other. There's a thing, for example, with trees called crown-shine. where trees intentionally create space so that they don't pass things across to each other. So we know for a fact that all plant species and trees have a layer of consciousness, and certain plants have been discovered, obviously, to be able to help us realize the truth of our own consciousness.

realistically that's all plants do is help you realize your own consciousness at all the different layers from the dense to the high frequency of your own consciousness and different plants achieve this in different ways with different energy so maestro's obviously we're talking about traditions that a thousand years old and with people who have spent a lifetime in communion with the plants if you think for example maestro hostina who heard first theatre with plants was two years long. 48 years ago in the Deep Amazon. She didn't have a phone, she didn't have Netflix,

she had no distractions. So she was constantly in contemplation and communion with her environment, which was the jungle. It was the Amazon. It was the plants of the Amazon. And just like if you drink coffee, the reaction to your biochemistry is it stimulates you mostly. You might feel it in different areas of your body. There are different plants that have different energies that work with your biochemistry and your

consciousness of your body, your mind in different ways that teach you things if you are willing to be open to receive the teachings. So plants have this, the consciousness of divine spirit within them and different plants offer different teachings. So they become plant teachers. They have, especially like maestroes and people in many different chamanic traditions, they believe that the plant has a spirit. And these, for example, in ayahuasca ceremony, these plant spirits come to the ceremony to be with us, to help us heal,

to teach us things. So when I refer to plant, teachers, I refer not just to the consciousness of the plant, but the spirit of the plant that come to teach us things about unity, consciousness, about the different layers of consciousness, which is what we experience in ceremony. Let's, just for the sake of people that are hearing these things for the first time, when you say maestro, because there's a lot of controversy, you know, I think I know a guy like in my hometown of Greenwich,

named like Bob that does like ayahuasca things in his backyard. And there's a lot of people that consider themselves shaman. and things like this. But when you say maestro and you just referenced that she did a two-year diet, explain what a maestro is and also explain from your experience because, you know, you kind of have an unfair advantage that you've only met like the most authentic of authentic shamans that, and I want to get your take on what we see happening in society, but what's a maesthrow and also what is their upbringing like? Because they're not just doing a two-year diet, it's like these are people that are born in the jungle for the most part, right?

Yes. So maestro or maestro in essentially means teacher. It's really that simple. And any great teacher really leads you back to yourself. In fact, I was speaking to what a good friend of mind the other day who is a maestro. First, he started talking about his maestro. And so I was asking him questions about his maestro and what his maestro had taught him. He said, I met my maestro 26 years ago. And then he started talking about his maestro. And then I was asking him other questions. And then I asked him, where is your maestro?

And he just pointed at his heart. And the whole time I thought he was talking about a person when he met his maestro and the work that he had done with his maestro. And the whole time he was talking about his heart, which is so beautiful, but it's also such a great teaching. because any good teacher will just lead you back to yourself. And ultimately, your maestro is your own heart. A teacher will teach you how to get there.

So any authentic maestro, they will accept their role as a teacher to lead you back to yourself. Here, for example, many of the maestros here don't really talk about. For example, I've asked Maestra, what did you see when you're saying me a personal Icaro? like, what did you, what did you see in me? And they won't really tell you many times because it interferes with free will and really they want you to discover yourself through the self rather than influencing the way that you see yourself. So I think any great teacher from any lineage, not just in plant medicine, but outside of it too, yogi, etc. Guru is just somebody who teaches you and guides you back to yourself without necessarily claiming credit for it, being over-involved in your process.

Just being a shepherd, steering you where you need steering, but not necessarily saying, I did that, taking ownership of it. They are just a vessel, really a channel for you to discover yourself. Many people call themselves healers and maestroes. And it's really difficult because what you have to be careful of or the path in this world is it will either deepen you into the heart or it will strengthen the ego. Right. Because you can say, I am a maestro and I have these powers and it becomes like this. But actually, like if you look at the cities, so a city is in yogic tradition, the superpowers of the yogis.

And they can do all sorts of magical things. They can play with the elements. they can do forms of alchemy. There's a guy, Swami Rama. He can speed up his heartbeat to 300 beats per minute and drop it to nothing. Or he can make this hand hot and this hand cold. He can be awake in deep sleep states of his brainwave patterns. And what they say is the point isn't, none of this is the point.

It's the consequence of surrender, of experiencing unity consciousness. of flowing and living through the heart. So it's not the purpose, but it can be a consequence of it. So actually from that lens, a true healer or a maestro would be somebody completely grounded in their heart who accepts their responsibility

as a channel for you to self-realize, rather than, and as a consequence of that, the power that they have increases, whereas somebody who is in the ego, shall we say, or says I am a healer because they know how to do certain things. I would see that more as performing tricks like a magician, like an illusion that they've created. Because it's less grounded in the heart and actually to amplify your ability in anything is the word art is in the word heart, right? So when you ground in the heart, art is created. So you become a channel of the creator.

So if you do anything from your heart, it's going to be exponentially more expansive, unlimited, than if it's contained within the ego. So that's the way that I would see an authentic, the difference between an authentic maestro and an inauthentic maestro. And obviously the maestro as we work with come from generational lineages of this work.

It's who they are. I think of some of the Shapibo maestro, as plants because, I mean, I was with Louise today. He's been working with the medicine since he was seven years old. And it's everything that he knows. It's in his blood. Ayahuasca runs through his veins. And they obviously, they go into communion with these master plant teachers in

solitude, into silence, with very simple diets. And then work with these plants so that the plants give their knowledge. knowledge to them. It's like they're planting seeds with the plants they diet and then they're nourishing and nurturing these seeds which grow in them and then express through them, for example, through ICARO, through insight and wisdom, etc. You just reminded me, I had a, well, first of all, to all of my hardcore listeners and sense makers, you know, you're all meeting somebody that I consider a very good friend of mine and you're probably like, yeah, that makes sense that J.C. likes hanging around with people like Billy,

But I mean, these are the kind of people I choose to be with because Billy's a very open and curious person. And his ego, everybody's ego is existent. But Billy's ego, even just since I've known him, is just constantly, you know, improving. I heard somebody say this. You're going to love this. She said she was a tapping expert. You know, her name is Jessica Ortoner. And she invented the tapping method.

And she goes, once you've pulled the weed, you can plant the seed. So I almost feel like, because you're, you're talking about teaching. And we're talking about, like, basically finding your way back home. And we understand what the jungle, what role the jungle plays in the maestro is kind of like a conduit and a guide, all connected. Is that what people are doing? You know, I know that I've gone through, I've had glorious experiences. And we'll talk a little bit about the experiences. And I've also had very, very rough experiences that all had a lesson on the other side.

But I never found that I learned something new that was, that didn't already exist. I always found like I was being brought back to something that I had forgotten or that I didn't know about myself, but it already was. So is that the role of plant medicine and its teaching role is via pulling the weed, you know, allowing for the seed? Exactly. Nice? Isn't that nice?

No, no, exactly. And funnily, I just came out of a group share that some of the guests here were in ceremony last night. And because I won't see them again, I shared with them a little bit. And what I told them was basically exactly this, which is ayahuasca, for example, all plant medicines can plant seeds. And the way that you nurture and nourish that seed is integration. So essentially, you're a gardener of the field of your consciousness. And this is actually where transformation takes place. ayahuasca different plant medicines work in different ways honestly ayahuasca is great for getting to the roots

and the intensity of the process is like sometimes a weed can have deeper roots than another weed so when you're having a hard time it's really trying to like rip these roots out which is a whole process and honestly it depends how many weeds you have in the field of your consciousness, that it can take one ceremony, it can take 21 ceremonies. So it depends where the field of your, the garden of your consciousness is, how many weeds it has in it, the depth of the roots of the weeds. And you obviously need to rip out all of the weeds and not just take out all of the weeds, you then need to set the foundation of the soil so that you can then plant the seed, which you nurture and nourish, which is the integration, and then hopefully that grows.

The other part of that is that even that process of nurturing and nourishing seeds, as you know, you can very quickly grow weeds in the field of your consciousness. But to grow an oak tree takes time, patience, sunlight. Actually, first, a little bit of darkness. Nurture, nourishment. It takes resistance to storm. all of these different things, but it takes a long, long time for the oak tree to grow. But once the oak tree's grown, it's very unlikely that it's going to be taken down.

And actually, what will happen is you'll grow a great tree, and then the seeds will fall, and another tree will grow. And you can create a forest of beautiful oak trees in the garden of your consciousness, in the field of your consciousness. But that process takes time, it takes effort, dedication, devotion, discipline, which honestly, when people ask me, I recently received an email with somebody who was saying they were thinking about coming and explaining their situation. And one of the questions I asked him was, are you dedicated and devoted to the integration of this? Because I can plant a seed,

an ayahuasca. Ayahuasca, discover. Discover is like to take off the cover of that which you already are, which is really what it's revealing. And we could talk about visions and how they express through your consciousness. Some of them meaningful. Some of them, sometimes people just have visions about minions and it's just energy expressing itself and whatever it needs to, just pulling weeds, basically.

But the question I asked him was, are you dedicated and do you feel like you have the discipline to nourish and nurture the garden? once you have started pulling the weeds. And from my perspective, specifically with ayahuasca, is people should come to ayahuasca if they are genuinely committed to doing the work that comes after the seed has been planted.

Yeah, but I love the analogy, because it's exactly that. I love all of this. You already are what you will discover, you know, but now people are probably thinking, you know, okay, so I get the concept of weeds and, you know, that's a great reason to go, you know, and experience this stuff. But Billy just hit home that, you know, there's got to be a dedication to it because if you don't water your garden, you won't grow anything as well. Let's talk a little bit about the experience. So for me, I've tried almost everything. I mean, there's always somebody saying,

have you tried this? But I mean, the primary, you know, things that people hear about. But for me, I look at, Ayahuasca and ayahuasca has been a very, very, you know, strong teacher in my life. And as, you know, my friend Alex from California said, but the first time I went there and I said, what is it like? And he goes, well, it ain't no fucking vacation. You know, that's how I was introduced to ayahuasca. And it was for the most part hard work. And there were some glorious moments, but it was a lot of pulling weeds. And obviously the benefit is because I've committed to the nourishment. But the most profound experience, and I don't know if there's anything that matches this, that of the, you know, goes by different names. Some people call Bufo and Sapo and 5MEODMT. And, yeah,

there's so many different things happening. There's synthetic DMT going on. But, you know, I've never experienced such an authentic and beautiful ceremony that, you know, you provided, you know, it's just so different. I hear people saying, oh, I'm going to go try Bufo, you know, my local fish market. And I'm like, please don't do that. You know, go. How could you explain, Billy, because everybody wants to know what it's like. And, you know, I can do my best, but the explanation I give usually makes them just think I've lost my mind or something. So how would you explain what it feels like for somebody? I know a lot of people are curious about this in like the first 30 seconds after you smoke UFO. Unity with the divine. Simple. I mean, in the first 30 seconds,

sometimes it feels like you're in a rocket ship. And as you can imagine when you're in a rocket ship leaving the atmosphere, it can be a little bit turbulent. As you enter the atmosphere or you exit the atmosphere, it just becomes surrendering into bliss. And people say it's an experience of navana or samadhi. And what that is is the highest stage, of consciousness, which is the truth of consciousness. This is Satjit Ananda. Satjitananda, truth,

consciousness, bliss. So the truth of consciousness is bliss. And essentially, in Bufo, what you can experience is the truth of your consciousness, which is experiential bliss. And that is complete unity with the divine. Many people see and experience this. the white light. People talk about white light. And what is light? It's lightness of being. It's in light, enlightenment. It's inner light. It's loving and the highest frequency of consciousness transcended state in union with divine bliss, in unity consciousness, with the truth of consciousness. And that is or can be the experience of Bufo. In a yogic, From a yogic standpoint, it's an experience.

It's very difficult because people use the term kundalini awakening. A lot gets thrown around. We don't need to get into that too much. But this is an experience of kundalini activation and awakening, which is kundalini is like the infinite potential of being. And the infinite potential of being is being just, being because you're in the truth of your being, which is truth of consciousness, which is bliss. So Bufo is an experience of this, which can be also experienced through different

styles of breath, through certain kundalini or crea practices. Bufo just happens to get you there with a click of the fingers. Honestly, the more I've worked with it, I think that there is also, you can help yourself access those states by unlocking the locks in your body so that this energy can travel there more directly in a safe and grounded way. A lot of people hear about ego death and people that haven't experienced plant medicine, maybe they've had it from a near-death experience. You know, there's different ways of getting there. For me, I don't know if the experience that I've had, you know, I've done Sapo many times in ayahuasca and peyote and I've done all these things. And I always kind of feel, and I want to get your take on

this that what is happening is more appreciated and understood on the other side. When I would experience 5MEODMT, just like you said, it was like a rocket ship, but what the rocket ship was doing was without me having any say, that was what was interesting about it, is it was taking me somewhere and that was a one-way ticket, you know, like I didn't have a choice. I didn't say, oh, I changed my mind. That wasn't an option. And that was a scary, but kind of nice feeling. But I started to wonder, what was I leaving? What was I leaving behind? What was I actually leaving behind? And then I realized it was me, you know? So all of the things that facilitate what I think about things, my opinions, my concepts, my fears, all of that stuff. That stuff was all left behind. I didn't have a choice. It was like luggage that just got thrown off the rocket ship. So while I was in the light, I was experiencing, and I have this video and I have to try to somehow splice it into this maybe and show. show people what it looked like from the outside. It was when I came back that I felt lighter because I, first of all, I've never experienced that much gratitude in my life. And that's probably why I fell in

love with you as a person because like whoever's there when you come back, it's like you're bonded with that person for life, you know. But I've never experienced such a beautiful state of gratitude in my life when I came back. And it wasn't because I realized that it was over and that I was alive. is I had finally experienced what it was like to just, as you said, be. Is that what's happening with plant medicine? Because there's so much debate about the trauma and the event. People say, I had a good time, at a bad time and all of that stuff. But everybody always learns something on the other side.

So is that what's happening with plant medicine? That you're being stripped away and given the ability to see and experience the world without all the bullshit. And that's probably the only way we can really, really embrace and learn about ourselves, about reality. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, a few things come to mind.

Because people come and they think that they're broken or there's something to fix or there's something wrong. We actually get stuck in a cycle of healing. And that itself becomes its own pattern, like there is something broken or something to fix. And it's like looking in a broken mirror. If you look in a broken mirror, are you broken?

No. I mean, you're still whole and complete because you're not seeing a clear reflection of the truth of yourself. And what these medicines are allowing you to do is to see the truth of yourself. Actually, all the different layers, including the parts of yourself that you feel uncomfortable with. And you might experience this as bad. But is there a good and not bad? Or is there just is, it's just an experience. a sensory experience that you're experiencing and trying to figure out some meaning and you're

attaching these meanings to it. Or are these just layers of experience? And underlying all the layers of experience is the truth of consciousness, which is actually peace. This is why the light is because in reality you are the sun. And the reason why all of these layers dissolve, when you experience the sun, the bonfire in your heart, is because what touches the sun? Nothing. And why? Because it disintegrates into light. So when you experience the lightness of your own being, the truth of your own being, then everything, all of the darkness disappears because it just becomes light. And you realize all is light. And you feel lighter. And you walk out of the retreat. And you say, oh, I feel lighter. Because you've expanded or experienced the love, the light within yourself.

through the help of these medicines which have either shone a light on something that you now see differently or helped disintegrate something into the likeness of your own being. And in your words, as you change the way you look at things, the things that you look at change. So it shone a light on something that you may not have been able to see. And you've changed your perspective through the lens of your own inner light. that now you just see it with love and you see yourself with more love, with more compassion. Because these medicines are teaching you this, because it's within their own consciousness. It's divine consciousness expressing.

So what you're experiencing is divine consciousness. And the truth of this is bliss. People have a hard time because they have a hard time shining a light on things that they don't want to see. There's a Michelangelo quote, which is basically somebody asks him about the statue of David. And it's about chisling away the layers to reveal what is already there. Now, as you can imagine, the chiseling is going to hurt a little bit. And actually, most things to be in light need to burn. The sun is burning constantly because it's radiating in light.

So that's why it could be experienced as bad or difficult, etc. But that's just part of a process for you to experience the truth of the self, the love of the self, and so that you can move on from these things that are holding you down. Which, as somebody that is experienced and worked with, like, extensively, with ayahuasca, Bufo, pey, San Pedro, mushrooms, and, you know, a host of different things, which medicine would you say, I'm not going to say which is your favorite. What I'm asking you is, which medicine would you consider the one that has had the most profound impact on you?

Wow. Wow. I know it's a tough question to answer because you probably can see the value in all of them, but. I really don't know how to answer that because, one, I've sat in hundreds of ceremonies, so I can't find a one-on-one comparison. I could tell you my favorite, and I could tell you the different medicines and how they operate differently.

All of the medicines, they work in different ways, which now all of the paths, and this is even outside of medicine, yoga, religion in its pure form, philosophy, or everything is just the life itself is leading you to the ocean. Like all rivers lead to the same ocean and the ocean is liberation. So all of these plants and these medicines are doing the same thing, but they all do it in a different way. Like you're taking a different route with each one. So for example, ayahuasca is amazing at really getting to the roots. But as I've shared with you, the more I've done this work, which I think is very important, very, very important to reignite the light within yourself. But then the question becomes like, how do I expand this light? Once I've

taken the roots out of the garden, actually now what do I want to grow? Like what flowers do I want in my garden? And then how do I create the greatest blossom in these flowers so I can enjoy my garden? That's the whole point. And so ayahuasca is wonderful for getting for the roots for smashing through the layers, the original layers back to the self. But once you've done that for me, at the moment, I can tell you my favorite medicine experience, which is Wuchuma in a Temoskal. And some of these other medicines like Wuchuma, in general,

are Ariel, a good friend of ours, a good friend of Alcana, such a wonderful human being. He's been working with these medicines for many, many years. And he says, for example, he works very closely with peyote. He says, peyote is like a hug from your grandfather. And ayahuasca, she slaps you around. But once you've been slapped around, what you need sometimes is a hug. And healing can sometimes be very heavy. It can be a difficult process. And once you've gone through that a little bit. What you actually need is softness. Like, I'm going to put it like this. When you ignite a fire, when you create the spark to ignite the fire, you hit stones against each other, which is an intense process. You're creating sparks through force. But once you've created the spark,

how do you expand that fire? Well, you start with cotton, very gentle and kind to the fire. If you just chuck a log on, you're going to put it out. And the medicines are somewhat like this. Ayahuasca is wonderful for starting that fire. How you build that fire, for me, is softer, more gentle, to be nurturing and kind to yourself and then start to expand in a more loving way. So now for me, more favourite medicines for me, I'm going to use the term gentler. They're more loving. And sometimes actually what you need to realign you isn't to be hammered. It's just a gentle shift. It's like, for example, if you microdose with psilocybin, it gives you a minor shift which can just realign you to reconnect you and help in this way. So for me now, this approach is preferable. Yeah, I love that.

I love the cotton. I know that you know this because I've explained this to you, but a lot of people start to report. Like people always wonder how many times do I have to do this. You know, like I see a lot of people, they feel like they need to keep going back and back and back and back. What I've noticed, because I've been doing it with structure and cadence, and I've been doing a lot of the integration work. And I discovered it and I did some podcast episodes on it. But I need less and less medicine to have, you know, the last time I went there, I said, oh, I'm just going to do like a teeny little like beginner 10 pound woman version of this just to be like engaged in it. It had blew me up more than I had ever experienced with ayahuasca.

You know, I'd drink in 50 milliliters before. And this time I just drink 10. And I was like, oh, I'm just going to have a little, a little dance with mother ayahuasca here. And just just, I mean, like, I had to go to the bad boys area that night. So you and I talk a lot about this. And I know you're super passionate about the. idea that the medicine is in us, you know. So how would you address that question of, you know, what's the best approach to make it work? I mean, we talked about the weeding and all of that

stuff, but how often does somebody need to do ayahuasca? When's the last time you did ayahuasca? Because people might be listening to you right now and be like, is this guy on something right now the way he's talking so happy and joyful? You don't work yourself with plant medicine, but the medicine's already in you. So I'd love you to address that. concept and is the medicine in the person that has not even done ayahuasca and they just don't know it. What are your thoughts on that? I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head within the question. I love when people tell me that I hit the nail on the head.

It brings up a lot of trauma from when I was a child. I want my mom to come in and listen right now. I just hit the nail on the head, mom. And that is you are the medicine. Like, so this came from somebody in group here. and it's something that stuck with me. So if somebody expressed their medicine experience and what they said was instead of searching, start seeing.

When you're seeking, you're not seeing. And it's like the alchemist. It's one of my favorite books. I've started telling people that I'm not saying it like I'm funny, I'm laughing at them, but the concept of this is almost amusing is that people come all over the world to, for example,

or these different centers to work with these medicines to discover themselves. So they're actually what you're seeking, what you're searching so desperately for, is you. And you are here. Where else are you? You've always been here. You've always been whole. You've always been loving. And obviously sometimes life creates these, talking of hitting the nail on the head.

I'll tell you, for example, there was an experiment done by Watson and Rainer. I don't know if you've come across this. It's called the Little Albert experiment. And basically, it's a psychology experiment where they got a rat, and Little Albert wasn't afraid of this. It was a white rat. And what they would do is they would hit like a steel bar with a hammer, make this loud noise every time this rat came close to him, this white rat.

And eventually he started becoming afraid of the rat. And they kept on repeating this until eventually he wasn't just afraid of the rat. He was also afraid of white fur. He was afraid of a bunny rabbit, a white bunny rabbit. He was afraid of Santa's beard. Santa was coming to give him gifts and he was afraid. And sometimes in the life we have these experiences, especially in the formative years, where it can distort the way that we see the world,

and it can come from something very small, like somebody hitting a hammer when a rap comes. It's a conditioned response to the reality, and then because our brain can't filter everything, because it's filled with so much stimuli, we start interpreting the world through the lens of our own consciousness, right? But that's not the truth.

The truth of Little Alba is that he's not afraid of rats. He wasn't born afraid of rats. not who he is. He was curious. He was open and curious. And that is the truth of the self. And we build all of these layers. But the truth is that you're whole and complete already. Like I say, you're just seeing the world through the lens of a broken mirror, but you're not broken. And the medicine, these experiences, what you're searching for is yourself from who you already are. And when you understand that, you get to choose. And this choice is available to you every moment. Do I, do I choose love? Do I choose fear? This is like, do I choose the truth, which is love? Do I embody the

truth of myself through love? Or do I choose fear because of the conditions, because of the construct of the ego, the safety, the comfortable, etc. And once you understand this, then you get to decide. And as you show up in the moment, the world will show up to you. This is true healing. So you can you can unweed your garden and that can be a very important process. But the integration and actually the most profound. So there's a quote which I love, which is everybody wants the medicine until the medicine's discipline. It's brilliant because it's so true. Everybody's searching outside of them for something. They can only be and do themselves. And And as you show up in the moment, as you show up to this moment, the future will come at you as you.

So even in this very moment, the past is happening. The words I'm speaking are now falling into the past. And the words I'm currently speaking are becoming your future. So it's coming to you and it's leaving at the same time. And all that's happening is the present. So the truth of healing always exists in the moment as you are. And as you are, so it will be. And as you do this moment to moment through love, then

to heal becomes an organic process. If you live life fully right now, I don't know if I answered your question. I'm realizing right now that there's two things, you know, we're kind of coming to the end, and I want to talk about your new project and vision. One is that I have to have you on this show every two months. And just to catch up, this is all evolving.

And two is you need to like start a podcast very soon, you know, because it's just there's so many lessons in everything that you just said. and I know everybody's grasping that. What I'd love to do just in the last couple of minutes, tell me about the IAM Tribe project. You've been talking about this for quite some time. And what I see it as is, you know, because I know you well. And I don't know if I get to tell you this often enough,

but I mean, since I've met you, which I think is like five years ago, I've seen you even just since then just completely evolved. And you have different ways of looking at things. And because you're an open and curious person. So you're growing, you know, and I'm seeing this. It's just so exciting to look at this next interpretation that you're feeling. Tell us about why you created IAM tribe and what an IAM tribe. I'm going to be seeing you in Tulum not so long with some of our closest friends.

I know a lot of people are going to want to get involved in something like this. But what is IAM tribe? Why did you create it and what makes it unique? This is a passion project. It's something I'm very excited about. honestly, and there's a lot of work that will go into it. But I'm very excited to share this time with the tribe, like a community of people who I love, who are love.

And that is pure medicine in itself. It's funny because in the world that we live, we feel, I think, like, part of the problem why people feel, I'm going to say, depressed or anxiety, is because they don't have a loving community around them. we're so separate. If I just walked onto a train and I just asked somebody, how are you? They would think I was a nutcase. It's come to this place where we are so separate, especially with like politics, with division, with all of these different things.

A lady once shared, I went to watch this medicine musician once, and she said something that stuck with me, which is once we were one and now we are scattered. And unity and community, which is, I am tribe, unity and community. The word unity, is in the word community. And this is part of unity consciousness, is togetherness. Where better to feel. It's like what people want is family, because maybe they have trauma

because their parents weren't around like me. So they have this abandonment wound. And now I see the world through an abandoned lens, which creates other fears like fear of rejection. And actually all you want is the comfort and safety of your tribe. we are tribal beings. And it takes a tribe to bring up a child. That's what they say, right? And we're all children of the universe. So what we're searching for is a beautiful community of people to support us, to love each other, to share with each other, to enjoy conversations,

to enjoy experiences, to enjoy moments that become memories that. There's a saying in Japanese, which is Ichigo, Ichi, and the meaning is treasure the unrepeatable nature of every moment. Okay, so what is the treasure in the moment? It's not a thing. It's not a car. It's not like a Gucci sweater. The treasure is in an experience. It's being in the natural rhythm of nature,

which is in itself healing. It realigns you to the natural rhythms of the life. This is like, we could look at like circadian rhythm, for example. So you become one with that which you are. So you experience your own oneness, which is to experience your whole, wholeness, to feel whole. And the root of the word wealth is wheel, W-E-A-L,

which means well-being. So true wealth is well-being. And where you really experience wellness is in beautiful and serene nature. It's with nourishing food. It's with a tribe, community of people where you feel loved and supported, where you share this treasure in the chest of your heart

from the moments that you experience together, the laughter you share, the conversations you had, and these memories become lifetime, memories for your lifetime become the treasure of your life. And this is all that we take with us are these experiences, everything else fades away. So the community, the tribe, is built on this philosophy. And then within that is my favorite medicine experiences, which, like I shared with you, For example, Arcana is an amazing place to come and start weeding, to come and start the process of chipping away the layers to reveal the truth of self. Spark the fire.

But where you go from there, how you expand the fire, expand the light, to grow the garden, to smell the flowers is something I'm becoming very passionate about. I think healing can be rooted in the past and it can be a, a pattern and you actually get stuck, not in depression, but in this cycle of trying to heal, rather than expanding and playing. Like the philosophy of this retreat is play and pray. It's to have fun, to enjoy lightheartedness, the loving heartiness, in reverence and respect for nature, for each other, for the ceremonies that we'll share.

and it's about cultivating joy. And like I shared, as you show up, your life will show up. You are life. You can't order life. So the best way to experience life is to live it fully fulfillment. And then the future comes as you. The past becomes a memory. So to fill the memory bank with beautiful experiences,

you'll arrive at a place where to heal happened because you're living fully expansively with a community that supports you that you feel part of, that you're loved and you're living in joy, in joy, in joy. You're just living in joy, enjoying the life. And you realize, wow, that is what life is about. Life, this world didn't create itself ugly or depressed.

It created itself beautiful, like the colors of the flowers, the colours of the sunset, the beach and the sea and all of these amazing expressions of life is so beautiful. And our purpose here is to learn to live it, to enjoy this beauty, to play, to express, to be of service and share our gifts together to experience love completely. And to me, that is healing. You don't need to worry about it. You need to live fully and it happened. And that's For me, what this project is about is living fully, enjoy and create moments of treasure that become the memories and of a lifetime, and to do it in a beautiful tribe, community of people, loving, supporting, encouraging, inspiring one another.

There'll be many different things, very playful, some in deep reverence, but I'll also obviously get to share some of my favourite medicine experiences, which are not about smashing down the layers. It's about polishing yourself so you can shine. Exactly. It's the cotton. It's about being soft and gentle and nurturing and shining and expanding in a more grounded way on white sand with Caribbean Sea. I'm just envisioning like we do a commercial.

The commercial is you saying everything that you just said. but then at the end saying unless you've got other plans, you know, I mean, like, it's, it's funny because this concept of like actually living, you know, requires that you like become aware and it's almost like calling it aliveing, you know, I love that idea. So we're definitely going to have to have you back because I actually asked you maybe four questions out of the many that I wanted to ask you. How would you suggest people, I mean, first of all, if you want to meet Billy, You know, he's in Peru at the Arcana, you know, Sacred Valley, you know, love you to connect people with Arcana and how to find out more about IAM tribe

and how to connect with you. Yeah, Arcana has a website, which is Arcana International.com. You can find out all information about anything Arcana on there. They also have the Arcana Instagram page, which is at arcana. spiritual dot center. And yeah, I would say those are the two best ways on there. You'll also find email addresses, phone members, etc. to contact the centre. For me, I feel like I should change my handle because it's my surname, which is very complicated. It's at b.bankantraman. My, this other project, IAM Tribe, is on the Instagram, but I obviously have its own Instagram.

the landing page for this retreat is iamtribe.com. You can read a little bit about it. But we haven't made it public yet, and it's almost far. There's a good chance that by the time anybody listens to this, there's going to be anything available there. But still, it'll be a way of you connecting with Billy because I've seen him just expand and grow in so many ways. And I would assume that, like I said,

you know, unless you have other plans, you know, it would be a good person to just start following if you resonated with anything that he said. And if you didn't resonate with anything, first of all, if you've made it this far in this episode, you know, the chances are that something's rumbling in your belly. You can either listen to it or not. You might have just think, hey, this was a great episode. I learned a lot. And then you can go back to your default mode and see how that goes. This has been wonderful. You know, I always love talking to you and I always love our discussions. You know, I feel like I always, you get me thinking and you get me learning. So I think that this is going to be an amazing episode for people to hear and we'll

definitely have to have you back. So thank you for coming. Thank you so much for having me, Jayce. I appreciate you more than you realize. This is Billy and this podcast makes sense. That's it for today. To support the Make Sense with Dr. J.C. podcast, be sure to subscribe like and share, as well as follow the Make Sense substack for free daily quotes, live streams, and blogs. And remember, learning without action is just another form of distraction. If something hit home and you learn something today, give it away. That's the only way it's going to stay.

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